Nightblades are the only ones who think all four classes are balanced. Why?

Yonkit

Zsymon wrote: »

The game shouldn't be balanced around 1vs1, because there is no such thing as 1vs1 in this game, it's just a situation that very, very rarely occurs. If you keep nerfing classes because someone accidentally ended up in a 1vs1 and lost, then in the end classes will be too weak to even do basic PvE content.

ZOS said they wanted to avoid a power creep, but what they're doing now is far worse, they're creating a massive power drain.

... PVE is easier than ever. There's no power drain. Remember, the trick about making fixes is the balance between the two. How do you boost the top pve dps class to adjust its current lackluster performance in pvp? Solutions have been offered, but it's not easy because any power boost to dk will buff an already op class, so instead it needs utility buffs.

Ara_Valleria

Yonkit wrote: »

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

IMO the biggest contributors to imbalance in PVP are...
1) Vigor.... Stealthy, assassin, glass-cannon types that used to lack self heals now have vigor + Rally (cake and eating too).

2) Damage/Healing 50% reduction hit the melee/tanky classes far harder than the mobile bursty classes. DKs & Templars already lacked burst damage compared to Sorcs & NBs.... not that they had no damage, but their damage is more sustain than burst. Now it's more wet paper towel for the most part... I know there are exceptions, my StamDK hits fairly hard and there are others that hit a lot harder. Also, the whole point of DKs tankiness revolves heavily around self heals (battle roar, GDB, Deep Breath...etc), but the healing reduction & change to Battle roar have left the class heals pretty average to say the least. Templars still have great heals, but it's geared heavily towards group play.

3) Removal of soft caps has created a massive imbalance between damage stacking & mitigation stacking. In the past you could have good damage prevention and okay damage.... you could have good damage and still be tough enough to survive if you played smart. Now, you choose one or the other for the most part. This hurts the melee classes because they always relied heavily on blocking & holding their ground. Holding your ground is pretty tough now, not impossible, but it means giving up all semblance of damage.

In the end we needed specific tweaks to bring balance, what we got is band aid, sweeping, generic, half-a**ed, cover-up, broken-game changes. Most of these changes by themselves didn't wreck balance, it's the way all the changes interplay that caused the current imbalance.

DK for example... The damage nerf by itself wouldn't have been that damaging, but that on top of the regen-block nerf....
The blocking nerf by itself, no biggy, we had great self heals and sustain with GDB & Battle Roar, but hang on, that got nerfed too.... now, Crappy self heals, Mediocre damage and can't block for S***.

Sorcs on the other hand, still get their escape, damage & shield from the same resource pool. Now, I have nothing against sorcs, I think the shield stacking thing takes a fair amount of skill and timing, but their class has stood up to the repeated nerfs far better than DKs and Templars.

I don't think we need more nerfs.... I think Sorcs & NBs for the most part are playing as intended, but DKs & Templars could do with some buffs that help them excel in their melee/tanky disposition.

Templars are perfectly balanced. @blabafat, one of the best templars in pvp, will agree with me. Nbs, Temps & Sorcs are just fine. Its only magicka Dks that need help.

I'll get the shovel if you grab the garbage bags. If we work together we can put them underground before sunrise.

*grabs garbage bag*

Nivzruo_ESO

Malmai wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

As a templar i can honestly say that from my point of view Dk, Templar and Sorc (this last one at a smaller degree) need some kind of buff when compared to Nightblades.

Everytime a read a ''buff x class'' the only ones telling people left and right to L2p are nightblades, also pointing out all classes strenghts and forgotting about the bigger weaknesses. Also everytime i see a ''nerf x nightblade skill'' the same people tell everyone how the class is super balanced and even weak and blablabla L2p crap, sometimes they make me actually believe that nbs need some serious buffs.
I wanted to make a poll asking if people think Nb are op but is kinda pointless since they're the most popular class by far (no wonder why)

But if in a game of four classes only one is ''balanced' isnt it better to just nerf it until it is as underpowered as the others then the game would be finally balanced.

Im talking strictly from a PvP point of view, i feel like in pve all classes can do well in almost all roles.

Discuss.

Only op class is magicka sorc.

Truth.

PhatGrimReaper

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

IMO the biggest contributors to imbalance in PVP are...
1) Vigor.... Stealthy, assassin, glass-cannon types that used to lack self heals now have vigor + Rally (cake and eating too).

2) Damage/Healing 50% reduction hit the melee/tanky classes far harder than the mobile bursty classes. DKs & Templars already lacked burst damage compared to Sorcs & NBs.... not that they had no damage, but their damage is more sustain than burst. Now it's more wet paper towel for the most part... I know there are exceptions, my StamDK hits fairly hard and there are others that hit a lot harder. Also, the whole point of DKs tankiness revolves heavily around self heals (battle roar, GDB, Deep Breath...etc), but the healing reduction & change to Battle roar have left the class heals pretty average to say the least. Templars still have great heals, but it's geared heavily towards group play.

3) Removal of soft caps has created a massive imbalance between damage stacking & mitigation stacking. In the past you could have good damage prevention and okay damage.... you could have good damage and still be tough enough to survive if you played smart. Now, you choose one or the other for the most part. This hurts the melee classes because they always relied heavily on blocking & holding their ground. Holding your ground is pretty tough now, not impossible, but it means giving up all semblance of damage.

In the end we needed specific tweaks to bring balance, what we got is band aid, sweeping, generic, half-a**ed, cover-up, broken-game changes. Most of these changes by themselves didn't wreck balance, it's the way all the changes interplay that caused the current imbalance.

DK for example... The damage nerf by itself wouldn't have been that damaging, but that on top of the regen-block nerf....
The blocking nerf by itself, no biggy, we had great self heals and sustain with GDB & Battle Roar, but hang on, that got nerfed too.... now, Crappy self heals, Mediocre damage and can't block for S***.

Sorcs on the other hand, still get their escape, damage & shield from the same resource pool. Now, I have nothing against sorcs, I think the shield stacking thing takes a fair amount of skill and timing, but their class has stood up to the repeated nerfs far better than DKs and Templars.

I don't think we need more nerfs.... I think Sorcs & NBs for the most part are playing as intended, but DKs & Templars could do with some buffs that help them excel in their melee/tanky disposition.

Templars are perfectly balanced. @blabafat, one of the best templars in pvp, will agree with me. Nbs, Temps & Sorcs are just fine. Its only magicka Dks that need help.

I'm not going to disagree that Templars are in an okay place. I really enjoy playing my Magicka Templar in PVP, but using an example of one extraordinary player is not a good way to prove a point.... afterall, he is Extra - Ordinary.

Also, I feel like templars used to be tanky-heals in PVP, now they are Healy-DPS.... A revision of the stam regen while blocking thing & a buff to BS would open door for Tanky AF templars to make a comeback. Before I ever levelled a templar, I always liked the look of those tanky templars.... looks like a really cool play style.

Cody

CP5 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Malmai wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

As a templar i can honestly say that from my point of view Dk, Templar and Sorc (this last one at a smaller degree) need some kind of buff when compared to Nightblades.

Everytime a read a ''buff x class'' the only ones telling people left and right to L2p are nightblades, also pointing out all classes strenghts and forgotting about the bigger weaknesses. Also everytime i see a ''nerf x nightblade skill'' the same people tell everyone how the class is super balanced and even weak and blablabla L2p crap, sometimes they make me actually believe that nbs need some serious buffs.
I wanted to make a poll asking if people think Nb are op but is kinda pointless since they're the most popular class by far (no wonder why)

But if in a game of four classes only one is ''balanced' isnt it better to just nerf it until it is as underpowered as the others then the game would be finally balanced.

Im talking strictly from a PvP point of view, i feel like in pve all classes can do well in almost all roles.

Discuss.

Only op class is magicka sorc.

lol, keep joking.

Mobility - Check
Strong Shields - Check
High Burst Damage - Check

Seriously the only think Magicka Sorc lacks is a self heal but people run a resto staff anyway. Some people argue that stamin users have too much damage and the counterargument to this is that in general most burst a stamina user can perform is in close range combat where they are more at risk.
But look at sorc! High bust damage at RANGE. And a class that laughs at stamina users trying to close the gap thanks to Wards, minefields and runes. A well played magicka sorc is an absolute monster if your not wearing that gimmicky 5pc set. People complain about NB's? Gimmie a break.

Well if sorcs can still be so heavily complained about after all the nerfs they got, i'm sure poor nightblades can survive a mild slap on the wrist for using one skill as a crutch.

so clueless...... oh well, once the nerf happens the results will open everyone's eyes

People complained about sorcs and they got nerfed, people still complained and they got nerfed some more. People are still complaining and sorcs will likely get another, and NB's get a single hint, a side note with no backing beyond it that they *may get a nerf and all of a sudden the sky is burning and the crops are turning to zombies.

Seriously, cloak is a major crutch that many NB's hold so close to themselves they can't separate themselves from it. You see the skill as a requirement to play the class, then don't expect any other skills to be buffed in your class to help so long as you have this skill on all of your bars.

How can I rely on something as a crutch when I can only use it 4 times?? How can something be a crutch when, apart from roll dodge, is my only true means of survival?? Use logic! Stop giving in to the blind and ignorant hatred that has seen to the downfall of the DK and pretty much many good parts of this game. Nightblades used to be "crap" too you know. You should have seen them in the days of Hopesfire; they were complete garbage! I have already played a class in a not so good state, I am fully capable of playing without a crutch, and have done so for a solid year and a half. You can lay that argument to rest.

I am getting sick of you bringing the sorc nerfs into this. You think I APPROVE of the sorc nerfs? No! In fact I was a vocal opponent of the Bolt Escape nerf, and I was defending the sorc class CONSTANTLY when they were being torn apart at the launch of 1.6. I also defended the Jesus beam when it was being criticized; and I was HIGHLY AGAINST the change to reflective scales. I am fully aware of the condition of the other classes and all the unnecessary sorc nerfs that have taken place. I do not need to be constantly reminded of how sorcs are "fighting the good fight" I support that fight, and will as long as it goes on. You can stop with trying to make me feel bad; its not going to work. Sorcs are in the hate zone right now, and they are doing fine,which is very commendable; but honestly, I DO NOT CARE. We are talking about NIGHTBLADES. NOT SORCERERS. When the state of the Sorcerer class fits into the topic, which is Cloak, THEN will I care. I am responding to these nerf cries NOT because of the possible nerf announcement from ZOS(which as you said is unconfirmed) I am doing so because folks like you are complaining about things y'all do not fully understand.



I am done arguing with you. All you have done is claim that I use cloak as a crutch. I do not. I AM A STAMINA NIGHTBLADE. I CANNOT RELY ON CLOAK AS A CRUTCH. NOT EVERYONE IS A MAGICKA NIGHTBLADE. This, for the 10th time it seems, is what you are not getting.
Open your eyes and stop buying in to the hate!

/sigh, again, once the nerf comes and stamblades become a joke, you will see. Until then, adios.

CP5

Sorry if I pinched a nerve, but if past threads are anything to go by the notion that nerfing one skill will destroy a class have not been that accurate.

bowmanz607

Cody wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Malmai wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

As a templar i can honestly say that from my point of view Dk, Templar and Sorc (this last one at a smaller degree) need some kind of buff when compared to Nightblades.

Everytime a read a ''buff x class'' the only ones telling people left and right to L2p are nightblades, also pointing out all classes strenghts and forgotting about the bigger weaknesses. Also everytime i see a ''nerf x nightblade skill'' the same people tell everyone how the class is super balanced and even weak and blablabla L2p crap, sometimes they make me actually believe that nbs need some serious buffs.
I wanted to make a poll asking if people think Nb are op but is kinda pointless since they're the most popular class by far (no wonder why)

But if in a game of four classes only one is ''balanced' isnt it better to just nerf it until it is as underpowered as the others then the game would be finally balanced.

Im talking strictly from a PvP point of view, i feel like in pve all classes can do well in almost all roles.

Discuss.

Only op class is magicka sorc.

lol, keep joking.

Mobility - Check
Strong Shields - Check
High Burst Damage - Check

Seriously the only think Magicka Sorc lacks is a self heal but people run a resto staff anyway. Some people argue that stamin users have too much damage and the counterargument to this is that in general most burst a stamina user can perform is in close range combat where they are more at risk.
But look at sorc! High bust damage at RANGE. And a class that laughs at stamina users trying to close the gap thanks to Wards, minefields and runes. A well played magicka sorc is an absolute monster if your not wearing that gimmicky 5pc set. People complain about NB's? Gimmie a break.

Well if sorcs can still be so heavily complained about after all the nerfs they got, i'm sure poor nightblades can survive a mild slap on the wrist for using one skill as a crutch.

so clueless...... oh well, once the nerf happens the results will open everyone's eyes

People complained about sorcs and they got nerfed, people still complained and they got nerfed some more. People are still complaining and sorcs will likely get another, and NB's get a single hint, a side note with no backing beyond it that they *may get a nerf and all of a sudden the sky is burning and the crops are turning to zombies.

Seriously, cloak is a major crutch that many NB's hold so close to themselves they can't separate themselves from it. You see the skill as a requirement to play the class, then don't expect any other skills to be buffed in your class to help so long as you have this skill on all of your bars.

How can I rely on something as a crutch when I can only use it 4 times?? How can something be a crutch when, apart from roll dodge, is my only true means of survival?? Use logic! Stop giving in to the blind and ignorant hatred that has seen to the downfall of the DK and pretty much many good parts of this game. Nightblades used to be "crap" too you know. You should have seen them in the days of Hopesfire; they were complete garbage! I have already played a class in a not so good state, I am fully capable of playing without a crutch, and have done so for a solid year and a half. You can lay that argument to rest.

I am getting sick of you bringing the sorc nerfs into this. You think I APPROVE of the sorc nerfs? No! In fact I was a vocal opponent of the Bolt Escape nerf, and I was defending the sorc class CONSTANTLY when they were being torn apart at the launch of 1.6. I also defended the Jesus beam when it was being criticized; and I was HIGHLY AGAINST the change to reflective scales. I am fully aware of the condition of the other classes and all the unnecessary sorc nerfs that have taken place. I do not need to be constantly reminded of how sorcs are "fighting the good fight" I support that fight, and will as long as it goes on. You can stop with trying to make me feel bad; its not going to work. Sorcs are in the hate zone right now, and they are doing fine,which is very commendable; but honestly, I DO NOT CARE. We are talking about NIGHTBLADES. NOT SORCERERS. When the state of the Sorcerer class fits into the topic, which is Cloak, THEN will I care. I am responding to these nerf cries NOT because of the possible nerf announcement from ZOS(which as you said is unconfirmed) I am doing so because folks like you are complaining about things y'all do not fully understand.



I am done arguing with you. All you have done is claim that I use cloak as a crutch. I do not. I AM A STAMINA NIGHTBLADE. I CANNOT RELY ON CLOAK AS A CRUTCH. NOT EVERYONE IS A MAGICKA NIGHTBLADE. This, for the 10th time it seems, is what you are not getting.
Open your eyes and stop buying in to the hate!

/sigh, again, once the nerf comes and stamblades become a joke, you will see. Until then, adios.

In all hinesty. Go ahead and nerf stam bkades. I have run one since launch as my main. I destroyed people before when people viewed them as a joke and j will continue to do so long after people are done with them. At least that way people will no longer have an excuse when I own them.

dodgehopper_ESO

catalyst10e wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

From my experience as a (high level) Templar and playing/discussing with Nightblades as well as against, Nightblades have high offense and low defense, mobility/invisibility being their best tool for survival. Their high offense allows them to penetrate even the most unbalanced defenses (shield stacking) while their low defense (primarily self-healing is lacking) makes them killable targets for all classes. Even low offense setups can defeat generic Nightblades since they bet everything on offense. This even back and forth, where Nightblade can kill all classes and be killed by all classes, gives them the impression everything is balanced. Or so my experiences suggest.

This use to be the case, but I don't really see it any more. Nightblade is a very balanced class now. I think they're the new bar other classes should be brought toward. I don't think they need a nerf.

I truly mean no disrespect here, but what you just said equates to "The other classes should be buffed to be as good as NB is" which itself is saying NB is a stronger class then the rest. I agree with the sentiment that you should always try to buff before you nerf, but you've essentially admitted NB is OP.

The change in game systems has promoted the playstyle of the Nightblade (Ie: lower ttk, devaluing of shields, increased importance of health regen/hots). In times past, Nightblade was pretty terrible. It was fun yes, but extremely high risk. They are a lot stronger now both through some skill tweaks and of course the change inthe game systems. My main character is a Templar, but I do play all four archetypes and pvp with them so in a way I have four mains. The thing you're not realizing is that both game systems and actual skill changes have nerfed other classes in the last 2 or 3 patches. Dk and Templar have been hit the worst on these. I'm still amazed they actually thought nerfing Eclipse to work on only 1 target was a good idea, particularly when this skill was so problematic to begin with. Another example is the nerfing of Templar heals (via passive changes) while at the same time buffing cross class heals with other passives (Something I felt was about time). The only issue with those nerfs is that they didn't compensate in any way, and nerfed healing across the board. Templars in particular are more and more being funneled into the healing role, even as they are nerfing their capacity to be a healer. This is but a couple of many examples, and I could compare with some DK nerfs that have happened. Nightblade is in a good place though, its not OP, it just has abilities that syncronize and work well together. Other Temp & DK could use that smooth flow.

Darnathian

Dracane wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sorcerer used to be strong in 1.6 for some months. Now now they are just average.
What made them that usefull was bolt escape, which now is a one time even and only if your enemies are braindead.
Shields, even though I thought this would not be the case, are much much weaker than before and now there is a certain class to totally bypass them easily, no skill needed.

However. Nightblades are on the throne since a long time and now they can insult everyone with their L2P quotes (so disgusting, I hope you will receive the echo soon) and when people bring up JUSTIFIED worries and complains about their OPness, they stick together and tell everyone 'Whaaaaa, Nightblade is so easy to counter ' Wha a a a a, Nightblade is soooooo squishy and weak' god, people actually believe this ?

Seems like their attempts to blind the poor developers is working, or because Eric Wrobel is a Nightblade himself. Let's just hope, that this supremacy is soon to be cut down.

Dracane back to talking about her sorc. Streak...once...really? I don't think the other sorcs got the office memo. You do realize the nerf in 1.7 does not k8ck 8n until the 3rd use. The first two Cost the same as they did 8n 1.6. Also, it forces to use efficiently. It does not make them useless. Just like dodge roll needs to be 7sed eff8ciently. Also, shields are still solid. Ya shields reduced but so was damage.plus can still stack healing ward so by t8me shield 8s gone your at full health. Dracane you cry about sorcs just as much as those nb's you talk about.

Howeber, I do agree with you about many people that defend nb. They also like to make general statements with no reasoned arguments. This is a problem through all the forums dealing with all s7bjects. Many generalized statements with no reasoned arguments. This is what the op has done. Made a general statement, no arg7ment, and disregarded well reasoned arguments altogwther. A well reasoned, logical, objective arguments 8s necessary to make a claim. A generalized grieve nice 8s not an argument. Reburting an argument with a generalized "you must be x class if you don't see it" is not a counter argument. It is admitting you have no counter argument and no leg to stand on. That argument is basically like saying because I sa8d so and that is my argument.

To all QQ people. Make an argument 9r stay silent.

I meant, it's a one time event. Like you may manage to escape once with your full Magicka bar. But only if the people chasing you are really bad.
I don't cry about Sorcs really. But they aren't as strong as they used to be. What used to make them strong is now a lot weaker. That's all I'm saying

Nightblade is next and no, this will not ruin the game as you and your friends claim. It will restore balance and then the nerf circle can finally come to an end.

Again you speak in generalities. He counters what you said with facts. Shields got nerfed at the same time damage did. For all classes, not just sorcs. They didn't fix a damn thing about sorcs. They are still on top with nb's with magicka DKS and Templars way below them.

Darnathian

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

To be serious here, Do you nightblades have a slot just to counter a specific class? I've read though character builds but have yet to come across anything that said "use x ability IF you encounter (insert class)" but all the other classes have to use a slot specifically for a single class.

This is a joke right?

It's called cloak! It's our only defense against every class! That's why every Nightblade is against it being nerfed. We will quite literally be defenseless when it gets nerfed.

You have access to healing ward, harness magicka, and Immovable Brute it's not your ONLY defense option. Also if this was a defense, why do I only ever see it used offensively? It's only a defense when its the only thing slotted for you when you try to hide, but once you're hidden you don't simply run away from the fight, you just come back in with another ambush/fear combo.

Everyone has access to those defensive options, name a defensive class ability that NB's have other than cloak. Why do I usually only see streak used offensively? It's a morph of bolt escape, I can't believe ppl would use it offensively, nerf again!!!

Revenge!!!

Easy. Shadow image.

Darnathian

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

nihonseanb14_ESO wrote: »

LOL this thread again?

Let me guess you got jumped in IC and came to the forums to demand equality and fairness?

And of course you can't be bothered to slot radiant mage light, make detect potions, or slot up an aoe. No, you demand the ability to kill other players no matter the mechanics or the skill, or lack of skill in this case, involved.

IC is all about ganking. That's all that it is. There is one class that has a dedicated vanish power so SURPRISE they're out ganking people in IC.

In regular pvp I have zero trouble with night blades. I stay with the group. Night blades are mediocre with or against groups. It's when you're off by yourself that you have trouble. Solution? Don't go wandering around by yourself, and if you do, stay stealthed.

But I'm guessing your tears are from IC. You want a class nerfed because of a poorly designed expansion that only some people are 'enjoying'?

Please tell the good people what survivability night blades have without Cloak? They don't have templar heals. They don't have DK armor or damage shields. They don't have Sorcerer Bolt Escape or Hardened Ward. They have Cloak. You complain that they spam Cloak, well guess what Einstein, THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE.

So seriously, offer up a viable solution for night blades or just quit pvp.

Couldn't say it better myself.

The problem is that one skill does everything. Escape, purge, invis. That is rediculous. The sorcs shields and cloak renders magicka DKS useless who are dot based.

At the very least leave cloak as is for everything but at least remove the purge. That is nuts. Make them slot purge like everyone else.

Darnathian

revonine wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Malmai wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

As a templar i can honestly say that from my point of view Dk, Templar and Sorc (this last one at a smaller degree) need some kind of buff when compared to Nightblades.

Everytime a read a ''buff x class'' the only ones telling people left and right to L2p are nightblades, also pointing out all classes strenghts and forgotting about the bigger weaknesses. Also everytime i see a ''nerf x nightblade skill'' the same people tell everyone how the class is super balanced and even weak and blablabla L2p crap, sometimes they make me actually believe that nbs need some serious buffs.
I wanted to make a poll asking if people think Nb are op but is kinda pointless since they're the most popular class by far (no wonder why)

But if in a game of four classes only one is ''balanced' isnt it better to just nerf it until it is as underpowered as the others then the game would be finally balanced.

Im talking strictly from a PvP point of view, i feel like in pve all classes can do well in almost all roles.

Discuss.

Only op class is magicka sorc.

lol, keep joking.

Mobility - Check
Strong Shields - Check
High Burst Damage - Check

Seriously the only think Magicka Sorc lacks is a self heal but people run a resto staff anyway. Some people argue that stamin users have too much damage and the counterargument to this is that in general most burst a stamina user can perform is in close range combat where they are more at risk.
But look at sorc! High bust damage at RANGE. And a class that laughs at stamina users trying to close the gap thanks to Wards, minefields and runes. A well played magicka sorc is an absolute monster if your not wearing that gimmicky 5pc set. People complain about NB's? Gimmie a break.

This is so funny sitting on the sidelines (dk) alongside Templars watch sorcs and nb's argue over who is more OP. You guys do see how funny you all look right?

Darnathian

SirAndy wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

NB's are not OP, they sacrifice survivability for damage, and since their best class damage skills are melee, they deserve good burst for the risks they take.

How dare you. Facts have no place in this argument!

What facts? Lol. Omg. He spewed out some random garbage. Not a single fact about the mechanic in question

eliisra

Darnathian wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Malmai wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

As a templar i can honestly say that from my point of view Dk, Templar and Sorc (this last one at a smaller degree) need some kind of buff when compared to Nightblades.

Everytime a read a ''buff x class'' the only ones telling people left and right to L2p are nightblades, also pointing out all classes strenghts and forgotting about the bigger weaknesses. Also everytime i see a ''nerf x nightblade skill'' the same people tell everyone how the class is super balanced and even weak and blablabla L2p crap, sometimes they make me actually believe that nbs need some serious buffs.
I wanted to make a poll asking if people think Nb are op but is kinda pointless since they're the most popular class by far (no wonder why)

But if in a game of four classes only one is ''balanced' isnt it better to just nerf it until it is as underpowered as the others then the game would be finally balanced.

Im talking strictly from a PvP point of view, i feel like in pve all classes can do well in almost all roles.

Discuss.

Only op class is magicka sorc.

lol, keep joking.

Mobility - Check
Strong Shields - Check
High Burst Damage - Check

Seriously the only think Magicka Sorc lacks is a self heal but people run a resto staff anyway. Some people argue that stamin users have too much damage and the counterargument to this is that in general most burst a stamina user can perform is in close range combat where they are more at risk.
But look at sorc! High bust damage at RANGE. And a class that laughs at stamina users trying to close the gap thanks to Wards, minefields and runes. A well played magicka sorc is an absolute monster if your not wearing that gimmicky 5pc set. People complain about NB's? Gimmie a break.

This is so funny sitting on the sidelines (dk) alongside Templars watch sorcs and nb's argue over who is more OP. You guys do see how funny you all look right?

Not 100% true. They sometimes complain that a templar isn't dying fast enough, because another templar is healing him.

Nerf templars healing other templars

I guess that's what it does to people, being master races for almost 7 months. They get all arrogant and start raging over luxury problems, like opponents not dying fast enough.

Infinite12

eliisra wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Malmai wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

As a templar i can honestly say that from my point of view Dk, Templar and Sorc (this last one at a smaller degree) need some kind of buff when compared to Nightblades.

Everytime a read a ''buff x class'' the only ones telling people left and right to L2p are nightblades, also pointing out all classes strenghts and forgotting about the bigger weaknesses. Also everytime i see a ''nerf x nightblade skill'' the same people tell everyone how the class is super balanced and even weak and blablabla L2p crap, sometimes they make me actually believe that nbs need some serious buffs.
I wanted to make a poll asking if people think Nb are op but is kinda pointless since they're the most popular class by far (no wonder why)

But if in a game of four classes only one is ''balanced' isnt it better to just nerf it until it is as underpowered as the others then the game would be finally balanced.

Im talking strictly from a PvP point of view, i feel like in pve all classes can do well in almost all roles.

Discuss.

Only op class is magicka sorc.

lol, keep joking.

Mobility - Check
Strong Shields - Check
High Burst Damage - Check

Seriously the only think Magicka Sorc lacks is a self heal but people run a resto staff anyway. Some people argue that stamin users have too much damage and the counterargument to this is that in general most burst a stamina user can perform is in close range combat where they are more at risk.
But look at sorc! High bust damage at RANGE. And a class that laughs at stamina users trying to close the gap thanks to Wards, minefields and runes. A well played magicka sorc is an absolute monster if your not wearing that gimmicky 5pc set. People complain about NB's? Gimmie a break.

This is so funny sitting on the sidelines (dk) alongside Templars watch sorcs and nb's argue over who is more OP. You guys do see how funny you all look right?

Not 100% true. They sometimes complain that a templar isn't dying fast enough, because another templar is healing him.

Nerf templars healing other templars

I guess that's what it does to people, being master races for almost 7 months. They get all arrogant and start raging over luxury problems, like opponents not dying fast enough.

Lol, that's hilarious. I've haven't seen those posts but I hope I come across one, I could use a good laugh. That's what healers do....they heal lol. How do you nerf that? lol

Darnathian

eliisra wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Malmai wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

As a templar i can honestly say that from my point of view Dk, Templar and Sorc (this last one at a smaller degree) need some kind of buff when compared to Nightblades.

Everytime a read a ''buff x class'' the only ones telling people left and right to L2p are nightblades, also pointing out all classes strenghts and forgotting about the bigger weaknesses. Also everytime i see a ''nerf x nightblade skill'' the same people tell everyone how the class is super balanced and even weak and blablabla L2p crap, sometimes they make me actually believe that nbs need some serious buffs.
I wanted to make a poll asking if people think Nb are op but is kinda pointless since they're the most popular class by far (no wonder why)

But if in a game of four classes only one is ''balanced' isnt it better to just nerf it until it is as underpowered as the others then the game would be finally balanced.

Im talking strictly from a PvP point of view, i feel like in pve all classes can do well in almost all roles.

Discuss.

Only op class is magicka sorc.

lol, keep joking.

Mobility - Check
Strong Shields - Check
High Burst Damage - Check

Seriously the only think Magicka Sorc lacks is a self heal but people run a resto staff anyway. Some people argue that stamin users have too much damage and the counterargument to this is that in general most burst a stamina user can perform is in close range combat where they are more at risk.
But look at sorc! High bust damage at RANGE. And a class that laughs at stamina users trying to close the gap thanks to Wards, minefields and runes. A well played magicka sorc is an absolute monster if your not wearing that gimmicky 5pc set. People complain about NB's? Gimmie a break.

This is so funny sitting on the sidelines (dk) alongside Templars watch sorcs and nb's argue over who is more OP. You guys do see how funny you all look right?

Not 100% true. They sometimes complain that a templar isn't dying fast enough, because another templar is healing him.

Nerf templars healing other templars

I guess that's what it does to people, being master races for almost 7 months. They get all arrogant and start raging over luxury problems, like opponents not dying fast enough.

Yup. So funny. "Perma blockers" we're the problem. Ya right. Sorry about the long ttk for the.

Look back. I called this during that whole argument about that nerf before it happened. I said to nb's and sorcs keep up calling for nerfs. Pretty soon it will be just sorcs and nb's arguing over who is more op. Lol

I am going to dig up that thread. Perma block a problem. Lol

WreckfulAbandon

Darnathian wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

To be serious here, Do you nightblades have a slot just to counter a specific class? I've read though character builds but have yet to come across anything that said "use x ability IF you encounter (insert class)" but all the other classes have to use a slot specifically for a single class.

This is a joke right?

It's called cloak! It's our only defense against every class! That's why every Nightblade is against it being nerfed. We will quite literally be defenseless when it gets nerfed.

You have access to healing ward, harness magicka, and Immovable Brute it's not your ONLY defense option. Also if this was a defense, why do I only ever see it used offensively? It's only a defense when its the only thing slotted for you when you try to hide, but once you're hidden you don't simply run away from the fight, you just come back in with another ambush/fear combo.

Everyone has access to those defensive options, name a defensive class ability that NB's have other than cloak. Why do I usually only see streak used offensively? It's a morph of bolt escape, I can't believe ppl would use it offensively, nerf again!!!

Revenge!!!

Easy. Shadow image.

So minor maim counts as a defensive skill now? Shadow image is a utility skill, not a bonafide defense skill. It must be used intelligently in addition to other skills to be viable as something that adds to the defense of a character. Unless you really think that choking talons is a defense skill too.

Darnathian wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

NB's are not OP, they sacrifice survivability for damage, and since their best class damage skills are melee, they deserve good burst for the risks they take.

How dare you. Facts have no place in this argument!

What facts? Lol. Omg. He spewed out some random garbage. Not a single fact about the mechanic in question

Sorry, I forgot about those OP NB dmg abilities from range. Funnel health just tears thru sorc shields, nerf! And those surprise attacks have way too much range, should be decreased to 0.1 meters.

Random garbage indeed.

PhatGrimReaper

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

To be serious here, Do you nightblades have a slot just to counter a specific class? I've read though character builds but have yet to come across anything that said "use x ability IF you encounter (insert class)" but all the other classes have to use a slot specifically for a single class.

This is a joke right?

It's called cloak! It's our only defense against every class! That's why every Nightblade is against it being nerfed. We will quite literally be defenseless when it gets nerfed.

You have access to healing ward, harness magicka, and Immovable Brute it's not your ONLY defense option. Also if this was a defense, why do I only ever see it used offensively? It's only a defense when its the only thing slotted for you when you try to hide, but once you're hidden you don't simply run away from the fight, you just come back in with another ambush/fear combo.

Everyone has access to those defensive options, name a defensive class ability that NB's have other than cloak. Why do I usually only see streak used offensively? It's a morph of bolt escape, I can't believe ppl would use it offensively, nerf again!!!

Revenge!!!

Easy. Shadow image.

So minor maim counts as a defensive skill now? Shadow image is a utility skill, not a bonafide defense skill. It must be used intelligently in addition to other skills to be viable as something that adds to the defense of a character. Unless you really think that choking talons is a defense skill too.

Darnathian wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

NB's are not OP, they sacrifice survivability for damage, and since their best class damage skills are melee, they deserve good burst for the risks they take.

How dare you. Facts have no place in this argument!

What facts? Lol. Omg. He spewed out some random garbage. Not a single fact about the mechanic in question

Sorry, I forgot about those OP NB dmg abilities from range. Funnel health just tears thru sorc shields, nerf! And those surprise attacks have way too much range, should be decreased to 0.1 meters.

Random garbage indeed.

Umm..... Choking Talons is the Defensive morph of Dark Talons.... the offensive morph having more damage rather than a damage reduction. So, yea, I guess it is a defensive skill.

WreckfulAbandon

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

To be serious here, Do you nightblades have a slot just to counter a specific class? I've read though character builds but have yet to come across anything that said "use x ability IF you encounter (insert class)" but all the other classes have to use a slot specifically for a single class.

This is a joke right?

It's called cloak! It's our only defense against every class! That's why every Nightblade is against it being nerfed. We will quite literally be defenseless when it gets nerfed.

You have access to healing ward, harness magicka, and Immovable Brute it's not your ONLY defense option. Also if this was a defense, why do I only ever see it used offensively? It's only a defense when its the only thing slotted for you when you try to hide, but once you're hidden you don't simply run away from the fight, you just come back in with another ambush/fear combo.

Everyone has access to those defensive options, name a defensive class ability that NB's have other than cloak. Why do I usually only see streak used offensively? It's a morph of bolt escape, I can't believe ppl would use it offensively, nerf again!!!

Revenge!!!

Easy. Shadow image.

So minor maim counts as a defensive skill now? Shadow image is a utility skill, not a bonafide defense skill. It must be used intelligently in addition to other skills to be viable as something that adds to the defense of a character. Unless you really think that choking talons is a defense skill too.

Darnathian wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

NB's are not OP, they sacrifice survivability for damage, and since their best class damage skills are melee, they deserve good burst for the risks they take.

How dare you. Facts have no place in this argument!

What facts? Lol. Omg. He spewed out some random garbage. Not a single fact about the mechanic in question

Sorry, I forgot about those OP NB dmg abilities from range. Funnel health just tears thru sorc shields, nerf! And those surprise attacks have way too much range, should be decreased to 0.1 meters.

Random garbage indeed.

Umm..... Choking Talons is the Defensive morph of Dark Talons.... the offensive morph having more damage rather than a damage reduction. So, yea, I guess it is a defensive skill.

You must be joking. Defensive morph =/= defensive skill.

SemiD4rkness

If the class wasn't OP this thread would have die days ago. But no!, rage quits complains and even trying to get us to feel bad for them. Just like i said only NBs think the game is balanced. Also they think they're the most intelligent players out there and thats why we believe NBs are somehow superior to the rest of classes.
I see it this way: Only sorcs have even a shot vs NBs balanced wise and they're all over the place asking for nerfs. Also they're against buffs to both dks and templars. HAHAHA
So balance for them is: Nerf sorcerers, keep Dks and templars as they are and dont touch my class! Those ez kills must be so satisfying to them. If they were half intelligent as they think they are as players they wouldn't cry so much whwn only ONE of their abilities is getting a nerf. L2p NBs.

Ara_Valleria

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

If the class wasn't OP this thread would have die days ago. But no!, rage quits complains and even trying to get us to feel bad for them. Just like i said only NBs think the game is balanced. Also they think they're the most intelligent players out there and thats why we believe NBs are somehow superior to the rest of classes.
I see it this way: Only sorcs have even a shot vs NBs balanced wise and they're all over the place asking for nerfs. Also they're against buffs to both dks and templars. HAHAHA
So balance for them is: Nerf sorcerers, keep Dks and templars as they are and dont touch my class! Those ez kills must be so satisfying to them. If they were half intelligent as they think they are as players they wouldn't cry so much whwn only ONE of their abilities is getting a nerf. L2p NBs.

IMO, I think you should git gud and L2P.
You will get rekt by nbs even after cloak gets nerfed. I guarantee it

SemiD4rkness

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

If the class wasn't OP this thread would have die days ago. But no!, rage quits complains and even trying to get us to feel bad for them. Just like i said only NBs think the game is balanced. Also they think they're the most intelligent players out there and thats why we believe NBs are somehow superior to the rest of classes.
I see it this way: Only sorcs have even a shot vs NBs balanced wise and they're all over the place asking for nerfs. Also they're against buffs to both dks and templars. HAHAHA
So balance for them is: Nerf sorcerers, keep Dks and templars as they are and dont touch my class! Those ez kills must be so satisfying to them. If they were half intelligent as they think they are as players they wouldn't cry so much whwn only ONE of their abilities is getting a nerf. L2p NBs.

IMO, I think you should git gud and L2P.
You will get rekt by nbs even after cloak gets nerfed. I guarantee it

Nb, Nb, Sorcerer and Nb. This game must feel very easy for you doesn't it?
I don't even ''get rekt'' now by them, once they get a balanced and not op class im gonna laugh at them even more. Imo once easy mode has been removed both from sorcs and nbs u'll have to leave the game.

F7sus4

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

So you're saying you wouldn't buff templars?
They can heal yes (people always forget that magicka isnt the only option but im tired of pointing this out) but if the game was balanced in a 1v1 scenario the templar shouldnt die to the nightblade, but as soon as you stop spamming heals to do any kind of damage you die. So balanced!

Yes, there actually is a balance when (for example):
A kills B, but dies to C.
B kills C, but dies to A.
C kills A, but dies to B.

On the contrary, being able to do everything and kill everyone in every possible way with any class is both unrealistic and would make the game simply shallow as it would require to strip all the classes from their unique abilities. Just don't.

Ara_Valleria

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

If the class wasn't OP this thread would have die days ago. But no!, rage quits complains and even trying to get us to feel bad for them. Just like i said only NBs think the game is balanced. Also they think they're the most intelligent players out there and thats why we believe NBs are somehow superior to the rest of classes.
I see it this way: Only sorcs have even a shot vs NBs balanced wise and they're all over the place asking for nerfs. Also they're against buffs to both dks and templars. HAHAHA
So balance for them is: Nerf sorcerers, keep Dks and templars as they are and dont touch my class! Those ez kills must be so satisfying to them. If they were half intelligent as they think they are as players they wouldn't cry so much whwn only ONE of their abilities is getting a nerf. L2p NBs.

IMO, I think you should git gud and L2P.
You will get rekt by nbs even after cloak gets nerfed. I guarantee it

Nb, Nb, Sorcerer and Nb. This game must feel very easy for you doesn't it?
I don't even ''get rekt'' now by them, once they get a balanced and not op class im gonna laugh at them even more. Imo once easy mode has been removed both from sorcs and nbs u'll have to leave the game.

Your QQ fuels my magicka bar to cloak infinitely.
I grow stronger everytime a drop of tear rolls down your cheeks when you get one-shot from cloak.

SemiD4rkness

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

If the class wasn't OP this thread would have die days ago. But no!, rage quits complains and even trying to get us to feel bad for them. Just like i said only NBs think the game is balanced. Also they think they're the most intelligent players out there and thats why we believe NBs are somehow superior to the rest of classes.
I see it this way: Only sorcs have even a shot vs NBs balanced wise and they're all over the place asking for nerfs. Also they're against buffs to both dks and templars. HAHAHA
So balance for them is: Nerf sorcerers, keep Dks and templars as they are and dont touch my class! Those ez kills must be so satisfying to them. If they were half intelligent as they think they are as players they wouldn't cry so much whwn only ONE of their abilities is getting a nerf. L2p NBs.

IMO, I think you should git gud and L2P.
You will get rekt by nbs even after cloak gets nerfed. I guarantee it

Nb, Nb, Sorcerer and Nb. This game must feel very easy for you doesn't it?
I don't even ''get rekt'' now by them, once they get a balanced and not op class im gonna laugh at them even more. Imo once easy mode has been removed both from sorcs and nbs u'll have to leave the game.

Your QQ fuels my magicka bar to cloak infinitely.
I grow stronger everytime a drop of tear rolls down your cheeks when you get one-shot from cloak.

Never gotten one shot from cloak really.
You don't grow, you get dumber and dumber everytime you play your easy mode classes.
And also stop with the heart thing, i just can't take you serious then.
Im gonna enjoy so much when you rage about the only skill that gives you and edge vs other classes gets nerfed and you realise how bad of a player you are.

Ara_Valleria

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

If the class wasn't OP this thread would have die days ago. But no!, rage quits complains and even trying to get us to feel bad for them. Just like i said only NBs think the game is balanced. Also they think they're the most intelligent players out there and thats why we believe NBs are somehow superior to the rest of classes.
I see it this way: Only sorcs have even a shot vs NBs balanced wise and they're all over the place asking for nerfs. Also they're against buffs to both dks and templars. HAHAHA
So balance for them is: Nerf sorcerers, keep Dks and templars as they are and dont touch my class! Those ez kills must be so satisfying to them. If they were half intelligent as they think they are as players they wouldn't cry so much whwn only ONE of their abilities is getting a nerf. L2p NBs.

IMO, I think you should git gud and L2P.
You will get rekt by nbs even after cloak gets nerfed. I guarantee it

Nb, Nb, Sorcerer and Nb. This game must feel very easy for you doesn't it?
I don't even ''get rekt'' now by them, once they get a balanced and not op class im gonna laugh at them even more. Imo once easy mode has been removed both from sorcs and nbs u'll have to leave the game.

Your QQ fuels my magicka bar to cloak infinitely.
I grow stronger everytime a drop of tear rolls down your cheeks when you get one-shot from cloak.

Never gotten one shot from cloak really.
You don't grow, you get dumber and dumber everytime you play your easy mode classes.
And also stop with the heart thing, i just can't take you serious then.
Im gonna enjoy so much when you rage about the only skill that gives you and edge vs other classes gets nerfed and you realise how bad of a player you are.

QQ more !
I'm perma cloaked as I type this.
Does that annoy you ?
Does it make you want to cry some more ?
Do want a shoulder to cry on ?

#GitGud
#L2P

SemiD4rkness

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

If the class wasn't OP this thread would have die days ago. But no!, rage quits complains and even trying to get us to feel bad for them. Just like i said only NBs think the game is balanced. Also they think they're the most intelligent players out there and thats why we believe NBs are somehow superior to the rest of classes.
I see it this way: Only sorcs have even a shot vs NBs balanced wise and they're all over the place asking for nerfs. Also they're against buffs to both dks and templars. HAHAHA
So balance for them is: Nerf sorcerers, keep Dks and templars as they are and dont touch my class! Those ez kills must be so satisfying to them. If they were half intelligent as they think they are as players they wouldn't cry so much whwn only ONE of their abilities is getting a nerf. L2p NBs.

IMO, I think you should git gud and L2P.
You will get rekt by nbs even after cloak gets nerfed. I guarantee it

Nb, Nb, Sorcerer and Nb. This game must feel very easy for you doesn't it?
I don't even ''get rekt'' now by them, once they get a balanced and not op class im gonna laugh at them even more. Imo once easy mode has been removed both from sorcs and nbs u'll have to leave the game.

Your QQ fuels my magicka bar to cloak infinitely.
I grow stronger everytime a drop of tear rolls down your cheeks when you get one-shot from cloak.

Never gotten one shot from cloak really.
You don't grow, you get dumber and dumber everytime you play your easy mode classes.
And also stop with the heart thing, i just can't take you serious then.
Im gonna enjoy so much when you rage about the only skill that gives you and edge vs other classes gets nerfed and you realise how bad of a player you are.

QQ more !
I'm perma cloaked as I type this.
Does that annoy you ?
Does it make you want to cry some more ?
Do want a shoulder to cry on ?

#GitGud
#L2P

So mature. No point in discussing with a teenager.
Have a nice day.

Ara_Valleria

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

If the class wasn't OP this thread would have die days ago. But no!, rage quits complains and even trying to get us to feel bad for them. Just like i said only NBs think the game is balanced. Also they think they're the most intelligent players out there and thats why we believe NBs are somehow superior to the rest of classes.
I see it this way: Only sorcs have even a shot vs NBs balanced wise and they're all over the place asking for nerfs. Also they're against buffs to both dks and templars. HAHAHA
So balance for them is: Nerf sorcerers, keep Dks and templars as they are and dont touch my class! Those ez kills must be so satisfying to them. If they were half intelligent as they think they are as players they wouldn't cry so much whwn only ONE of their abilities is getting a nerf. L2p NBs.

IMO, I think you should git gud and L2P.
You will get rekt by nbs even after cloak gets nerfed. I guarantee it

Nb, Nb, Sorcerer and Nb. This game must feel very easy for you doesn't it?
I don't even ''get rekt'' now by them, once they get a balanced and not op class im gonna laugh at them even more. Imo once easy mode has been removed both from sorcs and nbs u'll have to leave the game.

Your QQ fuels my magicka bar to cloak infinitely.
I grow stronger everytime a drop of tear rolls down your cheeks when you get one-shot from cloak.

Never gotten one shot from cloak really.
You don't grow, you get dumber and dumber everytime you play your easy mode classes.
And also stop with the heart thing, i just can't take you serious then.
Im gonna enjoy so much when you rage about the only skill that gives you and edge vs other classes gets nerfed and you realise how bad of a player you are.

QQ more !
I'm perma cloaked as I type this.
Does that annoy you ?
Does it make you want to cry some more ?
Do want a shoulder to cry on ?

#GitGud
#L2P

So mature. No point in discussing with a teenager.
Have a nice day.

Its the only way to deal with perma QQers like you
Now get off the forums and GIT GUD

contact.opiumb16_ESO

I honnestly have to admit that my nb and sorcerer are way stronger than my templar, considering they are the same lvl with comparable itemisation.

Their is clearely a huge difference.

Only my dk is too low lvl to have a good comparaison.

SemiD4rkness

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

I honnestly have to admit that my nb and sorcerer are way stronger than my templar, considering they are the same lvl with comparable itemisation.

Their is clearely a huge difference.

Only my dk is too low lvl to have a good comparaison.

Finally someone that has the cojones to admit it.
The rest of them (nb players) will tell you templars can heal and are fine as they are and also will tell you about 1-2 elite templar players that do good in pvp.