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Nightblades are the only ones who think all four classes are balanced. Why?
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terrasight✭✭✭SemiD4rkness wrote: »
You're right too, i should l2p.
Have a nice day with your balanced Nbs. And hey ,they should buff your weak cloak.
Have a nice day.
As a stamblade i can only cloak 3-4 time before my magicka runs out... thats a very short time.
So you ppl have an issue with permacloaks...then it's MagickaNB...Hekat'e / Hel'a Niflheim - Sorc / Necro - PS5 EU1 -
SemiD4rkness✭✭✭✭✭terrasight wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »
You're right too, i should l2p.
Have a nice day with your balanced Nbs. And hey ,they should buff your weak cloak.
Have a nice day.
As a stamblade i can only cloak 3-4 time before my magicka runs out... thats a very short time.
So you ppl have an issue with permacloaks...then it's MagickaNB...
Youve got regen, all you need to do is to get away, get resources back up and try again.
And please dont make me a list with a bunch of useless skills that may or MAY NOT reveal cloaked nbs.
You seem like a nice guy, i respect that youre a nightblade that havent told me to l2p.0 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
You are right, it's never going to be balanced. You are 100% correct. The only thing your whining has accomplished and will accomplish is the destruction of anything interesting and unique in this game. All for the sake of 'balance' that is impossible to achieve.SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »Everytime a class has an ability that is overpowered, people cry for a nerf and ZOS overnerfs.
During beta, Templars were actually quite powerful (Bowplar anyone?), able to solo a lot of instances and world bosses with ease. Things other classes couldn't do, so people cried nerf. And thus you ended up with the broken Templar at release.
The same can be said about the DK. People complained, ZOS listened, and now DK is broken.
Sorcerers have had their share of nerfs as well. I'm surprised that class isn't broken.
NB was weak and pretty much broken before some of the improvements to stamina came into play. Now players say it is over powered, but would it still be considered overpowered if Templar hadn't taken a hit during beta and DK hadn't been nerfed fairly recently?
The problem is, when you try to balance classes for PvP, you just end up making a bigger mess of things. People will always flock to whatever class is the least damaged and most functional of the moment.
If NB gets nerfed. My guess is that Sorc will reclaim the throne as the new meta, until it gets nerfed. Eventually we'll end up with classes too weak to take on the current content and ZOS will have to nerf that too. It's a viscous cycle.
Maybe, instead of complaining that one class is too powerful, people need to start complaining the other classes have been over-nerfed.
Stop the nerfing! Stop the madness!
Sooner or later Nbs will be nerfed, and thats just fair for all other 3 classes.
Look what happened to Dks.People think theyre underpowered because they believe Nightblade is the balanced class but its not, its OP.
If you compare a Dk to a templar right now, thats balance. Do the same with a Nightblade and suddenly Dks are ***.
"Only fair" < and that's what's wrong with this community.
Blegh. I'm for reversing the majority of nerfs. But that's never gona happen.
You're so right, all classes have been nerfed so much that it wouldn't make sense to nerf the current OP class.
And the point flies so far over your head I'm sure you didn't even see it. It's going to get nerfed. You are right about that. It still doesn't mean that you and whiners like you are toxic to this community.
Its an MMO, what do you expect? people to just shut up about the ununfairness of pvp in this game?
If thats what you want then they should have deleted all clases last year and let all be op magicka Dks.
bye.
L2P. Seriously. Back when dks were the 'omg so op' class I had little trouble dealing with them. Keep whining, history proves you will get your way.
L2p, l2p and l2p.
Yes its been said to me and EVERYONE who comments in favor of a ''nerf nbs'' thread.
We will see whos gonna need the l2p after the nerf.
It's still going to be you. And again the point goes over your head.
So if the Nbs get overnerfed i shouldn't talk in favor of them right?
And you, the pro, are gonna outplay all the other 3 classes and tell me to l2p right?
The game has PvP, and like it or not its never going to be balanced. Thats why the ''whiners'' as you call them are needed to give feedback and try to balance the game out.
Im done with you.
I would love for you to show me where I have said that nightblades aren't the current 'op' class. And the really funny thing is that I am in absolutely no stretch of the imagination 'the pro.' I suck dude.
This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!1 -
eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well, it doesn't matter if a class can oneshot entire raids in PvP, the one's playing it will always use a l2p argument.
The current Nightblade infestation is funny tho. Because unlike earlier fotm, they aren't that easy to play.
Old school 1vX DK, magicka sorcs and stam builds(abusing 100% armor pen) in 1.6. This was fairly easy to face-roll with for average players, that needed to compensate.
But Nightblades are squishy, requires timing on skills and situational awareness. Most guys playing Nightblade, doesn't have it, especially those that re-rolled cuz cloak OP.
So it gets really polarized in PvP. You have some broken ass NB's, good players that knows the class. Impossible to kill, hits like trucks and trolls everyone around them. They cause the QQ on the forum, nerf pls, guild chat rage and the like.
Than you have even more mediocre Nightblades, that's free AP and fill your "Kill Enemy Nightblades" in less than a minute. The ones that sort of just stands there with a bow and blocks, while pressing cloak in the middle of AoE.
This is why so many NB's claims that "Cloak is so easy to counter" and later accuses you of l2p issues. They cant play Nightblade that well themselves. They mainly dont know how to Cloak. Which in all fairness, isn't as easy mode as people make it out to be.5 -
SemiD4rkness✭✭✭✭✭
You are right, it's never going to be balanced. You are 100% correct. The only thing your whining has accomplished and will accomplish is the destruction of anything interesting and unique in this game. All for the sake of 'balance' that is impossible to achieve.SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »Everytime a class has an ability that is overpowered, people cry for a nerf and ZOS overnerfs.
During beta, Templars were actually quite powerful (Bowplar anyone?), able to solo a lot of instances and world bosses with ease. Things other classes couldn't do, so people cried nerf. And thus you ended up with the broken Templar at release.
The same can be said about the DK. People complained, ZOS listened, and now DK is broken.
Sorcerers have had their share of nerfs as well. I'm surprised that class isn't broken.
NB was weak and pretty much broken before some of the improvements to stamina came into play. Now players say it is over powered, but would it still be considered overpowered if Templar hadn't taken a hit during beta and DK hadn't been nerfed fairly recently?
The problem is, when you try to balance classes for PvP, you just end up making a bigger mess of things. People will always flock to whatever class is the least damaged and most functional of the moment.
If NB gets nerfed. My guess is that Sorc will reclaim the throne as the new meta, until it gets nerfed. Eventually we'll end up with classes too weak to take on the current content and ZOS will have to nerf that too. It's a viscous cycle.
Maybe, instead of complaining that one class is too powerful, people need to start complaining the other classes have been over-nerfed.
Stop the nerfing! Stop the madness!
Sooner or later Nbs will be nerfed, and thats just fair for all other 3 classes.
Look what happened to Dks.People think theyre underpowered because they believe Nightblade is the balanced class but its not, its OP.
If you compare a Dk to a templar right now, thats balance. Do the same with a Nightblade and suddenly Dks are ***.
"Only fair" < and that's what's wrong with this community.
Blegh. I'm for reversing the majority of nerfs. But that's never gona happen.
You're so right, all classes have been nerfed so much that it wouldn't make sense to nerf the current OP class.
And the point flies so far over your head I'm sure you didn't even see it. It's going to get nerfed. You are right about that. It still doesn't mean that you and whiners like you are toxic to this community.
Its an MMO, what do you expect? people to just shut up about the ununfairness of pvp in this game?
If thats what you want then they should have deleted all clases last year and let all be op magicka Dks.
bye.
L2P. Seriously. Back when dks were the 'omg so op' class I had little trouble dealing with them. Keep whining, history proves you will get your way.
L2p, l2p and l2p.
Yes its been said to me and EVERYONE who comments in favor of a ''nerf nbs'' thread.
We will see whos gonna need the l2p after the nerf.
It's still going to be you. And again the point goes over your head.
So if the Nbs get overnerfed i shouldn't talk in favor of them right?
And you, the pro, are gonna outplay all the other 3 classes and tell me to l2p right?
The game has PvP, and like it or not its never going to be balanced. Thats why the ''whiners'' as you call them are needed to give feedback and try to balance the game out.
Im done with you.
I would love for you to show me where I have said that nightblades aren't the current 'op' class. And the really funny thing is that I am in absolutely no stretch of the imagination 'the pro.' I suck dude.
You make zero sense to me. You agree that Nbs are the Op class atm (and if you dont idc because it's obvious)
but you dont like when people talk about it, then how could ZOS know about a class being op if no one ever mention it.
I know it must be ''unique''and ''interesting'' to play the class that sh*ts all over the rest but doesnt mean it shouldnt be destroyed.
PD: Didn't know the word S*** was censored on this forum, my apologies for using it.
Edited by SemiD4rkness on October 19, 2015 1:24PM1 -
As a magicka templar in PVP i never really had a problem with nightblades till yesterday,
I went into arena district and had some 1vs1 fights.
I dueled a Nightblade and he jumped out of stealth and killed me in less than 2 seconds i could believe it..... my death recap said Flurry 8k , 8k , 8k, I took a screenshot as im in 5 piece heavy Armour wearing 4x elf bane set vr16 and engine guardian set vr16 with 2x torags pact vr16, while standing in channel focus ..... roughly 21k physical resistance.
I went back and said fine let me go offensive put my buffs down and started puncturing sweeps in his direction,
I pulled him out of stealth with my one second stun and thought great this guy will be a glass cannon lets nuke
..... Oh how wrong i was,
his health bar barely moved and Bang 2 seconds later im dead 8K Flurry 8k Flurry 8k Flurry. This was beyond insane i have never seen this happen so i messaged the guy asking him how many CP he had.....
he said 330 whats a lot on console *(compared to my 200) but seriously this burst didn't even given me time to click one button with 50% damage reduction on i just couldn't believe it ..... i feel sorry for anyone with less resistance than me in pvp the only class that survived a lot longer was a sorc fighting him they seemed like they were having a interesting fight but then got beaten every time.
Anyways my Thoughts behind it is everyone reroll as nightblades i did the same with SORCs before IC and had so much fun shield stacking and tanking everyone.
Leaving my templar too PVE, until they do something about rooting me too the ground every second and the sheer lack of burst damage we have.
Cant wait though this post plus the the wrecking blow posts gets me super excited about re-rolling nightblade ...... then i will come on here and message everyone saying L2P
muuuuhhhaaaaaaa
3 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SemiD4rkness wrote: »
You are right, it's never going to be balanced. You are 100% correct. The only thing your whining has accomplished and will accomplish is the destruction of anything interesting and unique in this game. All for the sake of 'balance' that is impossible to achieve.SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »Everytime a class has an ability that is overpowered, people cry for a nerf and ZOS overnerfs.
During beta, Templars were actually quite powerful (Bowplar anyone?), able to solo a lot of instances and world bosses with ease. Things other classes couldn't do, so people cried nerf. And thus you ended up with the broken Templar at release.
The same can be said about the DK. People complained, ZOS listened, and now DK is broken.
Sorcerers have had their share of nerfs as well. I'm surprised that class isn't broken.
NB was weak and pretty much broken before some of the improvements to stamina came into play. Now players say it is over powered, but would it still be considered overpowered if Templar hadn't taken a hit during beta and DK hadn't been nerfed fairly recently?
The problem is, when you try to balance classes for PvP, you just end up making a bigger mess of things. People will always flock to whatever class is the least damaged and most functional of the moment.
If NB gets nerfed. My guess is that Sorc will reclaim the throne as the new meta, until it gets nerfed. Eventually we'll end up with classes too weak to take on the current content and ZOS will have to nerf that too. It's a viscous cycle.
Maybe, instead of complaining that one class is too powerful, people need to start complaining the other classes have been over-nerfed.
Stop the nerfing! Stop the madness!
Sooner or later Nbs will be nerfed, and thats just fair for all other 3 classes.
Look what happened to Dks.People think theyre underpowered because they believe Nightblade is the balanced class but its not, its OP.
If you compare a Dk to a templar right now, thats balance. Do the same with a Nightblade and suddenly Dks are ***.
"Only fair" < and that's what's wrong with this community.
Blegh. I'm for reversing the majority of nerfs. But that's never gona happen.
You're so right, all classes have been nerfed so much that it wouldn't make sense to nerf the current OP class.
And the point flies so far over your head I'm sure you didn't even see it. It's going to get nerfed. You are right about that. It still doesn't mean that you and whiners like you are toxic to this community.
Its an MMO, what do you expect? people to just shut up about the ununfairness of pvp in this game?
If thats what you want then they should have deleted all clases last year and let all be op magicka Dks.
bye.
L2P. Seriously. Back when dks were the 'omg so op' class I had little trouble dealing with them. Keep whining, history proves you will get your way.
L2p, l2p and l2p.
Yes its been said to me and EVERYONE who comments in favor of a ''nerf nbs'' thread.
We will see whos gonna need the l2p after the nerf.
It's still going to be you. And again the point goes over your head.
So if the Nbs get overnerfed i shouldn't talk in favor of them right?
And you, the pro, are gonna outplay all the other 3 classes and tell me to l2p right?
The game has PvP, and like it or not its never going to be balanced. Thats why the ''whiners'' as you call them are needed to give feedback and try to balance the game out.
Im done with you.
I would love for you to show me where I have said that nightblades aren't the current 'op' class. And the really funny thing is that I am in absolutely no stretch of the imagination 'the pro.' I suck dude.
You make zero sense to me. You agree that Nbs are the Op class atm (and if you dont idc because it's obvious)
but you dont like when people talk about it, then how could ZOS know about a class being op if no one ever mention it.
I know it must be ''unique''and ''interesting'' to play the class that sh*ts all over the rest but doesnt mean it shouldnt be destroyed.
PD: Didn't know the word S*** was censored on this forum, my apologies for using it.
Let's go a different route. What buffs do you think the other classes need?Edited by Shunravi on October 19, 2015 1:26PMThis one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
SemiD4rkness✭✭✭✭✭Powerpeach wrote: »As a magicka templar in PVP i never really had a problem with nightblades till yesterday,
I went into arena district and had some 1vs1 fights.
I dueled a Nightblade and he jumped out of stealth and killed me in less than 2 seconds i could believe it..... my death recap said Flurry 8k , 8k , 8k, I took a screenshot as im in 5 piece heavy Armour wearing 4x elf bane set vr16 and engine guardian set vr16 with 2x torags pact vr16, while standing in channel focus ..... roughly 21k physical resistance.
I went back and said fine let me go offensive put my buffs down and started puncturing sweeps in his direction,
I pulled him out of stealth with my one second stun and thought great this guy will be a glass cannon lets nuke
..... Oh how wrong i was,
his health bar barely moved and Bang 2 seconds later im dead 8K Flurry 8k Flurry 8k Flurry. This was beyond insane i have never seen this happen so i messaged the guy asking him how many CP he had.....
he said 330 whats a lot on console *(compared to my 200) but seriously this burst didn't even given me time to click one button with 50% damage reduction on i just couldn't believe it ..... i feel sorry for anyone with less resistance than me in pvp the only class that survived a lot longer was a sorc fighting him they seemed like they were having a interesting fight but then got beaten every time.
Anyways my Thoughts behind it is everyone reroll as nightblades i did the same with SORCs before IC and had so much fun shield stacking and tanking everyone.
Leaving my templar too PVE, until they do something about rooting me too the ground every second and the sheer lack of burst damage we have.
Cant wait though this post plus the the wrecking blow posts gets me super excited about re-rolling nightblade ...... then i will come on here and message everyone saying L2P
muuuuhhhaaaaaaa
Please do not turn to the dark side!
As a stamina templar i feel your pain. If i was a nightblade id say that you are op and that Puncturing sweep shouldn't reveal my position.
0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭SemiD4rkness wrote: »As a templar i can honestly say that from my point of view Dk, Templar and Sorc (this last one at a smaller degree) need some kind of buff when compared to Nightblades.
Everytime a read a ''buff x class'' the only ones telling people left and right to L2p are nightblades, also pointing out all classes strenghts and forgetting about the bigger weaknesses. Also everytime i see a ''nerf x nightblade skill'' the same people tell everyone how the class is super balanced and even weak and blablabla L2p crap, sometimes they make me actually believe that nbs need some serious buffs.
I wanted to make a poll asking if people think Nb are op but is kinda pointless since they're the most popular class by far (no wonder why)
But if in a game of four classes only one is ''balanced' isnt it better to just nerf it until it is as underpowered as the others then the game would be finally balanced.
Im talking strictly from a PvP point of view, i feel like in pve all classes can do well in almost all roles.
Discuss.
im confused. how do you know what players are NB and which are not? DO you automatically assume if they dont agree with your perception that they must be a NB? Most players at this point play many classes. Simply lumping everyone into one class type is crazy. sure some are bias and have blind folds on to other clasees, but other do not. Also, bias works both ways.
I play all classes personally. However a stamina NB is my main. I have been playing a stam NB since launch and well before they were more and more the norm. IN fact, I was making a stamina NB work when no one even wante to group with a NB let alone a stamina class.
Side note: I have been using basically the same stamina NB build since launch. There was never a problem with NB until recently although NB gameplay has not really changed in that time. The difference is more people play it now, so it seems like it is the best class.
So here is the thing, NB have always been the best STDPS and best burst since the beginning. Why is it a problem now?
I do believe that all four classes are well balanced for the most part and the best balance we have had since 1.5. SOme tweaks yes, but no overhauls. WHy exactly are the classes not balanced? WHat can you point to? IS it b/c of cloak? As a NB the only thing that needs to be done to cloak is to lower or remove magika recovery while in cloak. Other than that it is very easy to counter. What else? The fact that NB have the best single target spammable stamina attack? NB were made with that in mine. outside of those two things what is there? Templars have jabs and self heal. SOrcs have shields and high burst. DK has sustain, tank damage, and heals.
Each class has something they can look to that no other class specializes in. Now where do the classes really differ?
They differ in solo and group play. NB and sorcs are better for solo play, but templar and DK are better for group play. So now players can choose based on their playstyle. Lets keep in mind that this strictly looks at pvp not pve. WHen you look at pve sorcs and NB are best for dps. DK best for tank and templar best for heals. Although you can play each in any role, they work best in the roles i mentioned.
What people are trying to do is make each class equally viable in each category. That is just ridiculous. Sure you can "play as you want," but that does not mean your race and class will be best for that. What the hell is the point of putting every class on the same level? Then what is the point? Each class should have a specialty and something they are better at then others.
For NB it is stamina burst dps and elusiveness. For sorc it is magika dps and shields. For DK it is tanking damage and sustain. For temp it is healing and sustain.
So again I ask what makes the classes so imbalanced? I am not saying it is perfect, but it is pretty solid. People need to stop thinking that a sorc should be better with stamina then a NB or that a DK should be able to tank and be elusive or that a templar shoudl also have heals and elusiveness etc.1 -
SemiD4rkness✭✭✭✭✭SemiD4rkness wrote: »
You are right, it's never going to be balanced. You are 100% correct. The only thing your whining has accomplished and will accomplish is the destruction of anything interesting and unique in this game. All for the sake of 'balance' that is impossible to achieve.SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »Everytime a class has an ability that is overpowered, people cry for a nerf and ZOS overnerfs.
During beta, Templars were actually quite powerful (Bowplar anyone?), able to solo a lot of instances and world bosses with ease. Things other classes couldn't do, so people cried nerf. And thus you ended up with the broken Templar at release.
The same can be said about the DK. People complained, ZOS listened, and now DK is broken.
Sorcerers have had their share of nerfs as well. I'm surprised that class isn't broken.
NB was weak and pretty much broken before some of the improvements to stamina came into play. Now players say it is over powered, but would it still be considered overpowered if Templar hadn't taken a hit during beta and DK hadn't been nerfed fairly recently?
The problem is, when you try to balance classes for PvP, you just end up making a bigger mess of things. People will always flock to whatever class is the least damaged and most functional of the moment.
If NB gets nerfed. My guess is that Sorc will reclaim the throne as the new meta, until it gets nerfed. Eventually we'll end up with classes too weak to take on the current content and ZOS will have to nerf that too. It's a viscous cycle.
Maybe, instead of complaining that one class is too powerful, people need to start complaining the other classes have been over-nerfed.
Stop the nerfing! Stop the madness!
Sooner or later Nbs will be nerfed, and thats just fair for all other 3 classes.
Look what happened to Dks.People think theyre underpowered because they believe Nightblade is the balanced class but its not, its OP.
If you compare a Dk to a templar right now, thats balance. Do the same with a Nightblade and suddenly Dks are ***.
"Only fair" < and that's what's wrong with this community.
Blegh. I'm for reversing the majority of nerfs. But that's never gona happen.
You're so right, all classes have been nerfed so much that it wouldn't make sense to nerf the current OP class.
And the point flies so far over your head I'm sure you didn't even see it. It's going to get nerfed. You are right about that. It still doesn't mean that you and whiners like you are toxic to this community.
Its an MMO, what do you expect? people to just shut up about the ununfairness of pvp in this game?
If thats what you want then they should have deleted all clases last year and let all be op magicka Dks.
bye.
L2P. Seriously. Back when dks were the 'omg so op' class I had little trouble dealing with them. Keep whining, history proves you will get your way.
L2p, l2p and l2p.
Yes its been said to me and EVERYONE who comments in favor of a ''nerf nbs'' thread.
We will see whos gonna need the l2p after the nerf.
It's still going to be you. And again the point goes over your head.
So if the Nbs get overnerfed i shouldn't talk in favor of them right?
And you, the pro, are gonna outplay all the other 3 classes and tell me to l2p right?
The game has PvP, and like it or not its never going to be balanced. Thats why the ''whiners'' as you call them are needed to give feedback and try to balance the game out.
Im done with you.
I would love for you to show me where I have said that nightblades aren't the current 'op' class. And the really funny thing is that I am in absolutely no stretch of the imagination 'the pro.' I suck dude.
You make zero sense to me. You agree that Nbs are the Op class atm (and if you dont idc because it's obvious)
but you dont like when people talk about it, then how could ZOS know about a class being op if no one ever mention it.
I know it must be ''unique''and ''interesting'' to play the class that sh*ts all over the rest but doesnt mean it shouldnt be destroyed.
PD: Didn't know the word S*** was censored on this forum, my apologies for using it.
Let's go a different route. What buffs do you think the other classes need?
I dont feel like discussing with you, its like talking to a wall. You still make 0 sense.
Im not asking for buffs im asking for a nerf.
1 -
SemiD4rkness✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »As a templar i can honestly say that from my point of view Dk, Templar and Sorc (this last one at a smaller degree) need some kind of buff when compared to Nightblades.
Everytime a read a ''buff x class'' the only ones telling people left and right to L2p are nightblades, also pointing out all classes strenghts and forgetting about the bigger weaknesses. Also everytime i see a ''nerf x nightblade skill'' the same people tell everyone how the class is super balanced and even weak and blablabla L2p crap, sometimes they make me actually believe that nbs need some serious buffs.
I wanted to make a poll asking if people think Nb are op but is kinda pointless since they're the most popular class by far (no wonder why)
But if in a game of four classes only one is ''balanced' isnt it better to just nerf it until it is as underpowered as the others then the game would be finally balanced.
Im talking strictly from a PvP point of view, i feel like in pve all classes can do well in almost all roles.
Discuss.
im confused. how do you know what players are NB and which are not? DO you automatically assume if they dont agree with your perception that they must be a NB? Most players at this point play many classes. Simply lumping everyone into one class type is crazy. sure some are bias and have blind folds on to other clasees, but other do not. Also, bias works both ways.
I play all classes personally. However a stamina NB is my main. I have been playing a stam NB since launch and well before they were more and more the norm. IN fact, I was making a stamina NB work when no one even wante to group with a NB let alone a stamina class.
Side note: I have been using basically the same stamina NB build since launch. There was never a problem with NB until recently although NB gameplay has not really changed in that time. The difference is more people play it now, so it seems like it is the best class.
So here is the thing, NB have always been the best STDPS and best burst since the beginning. Why is it a problem now?
I do believe that all four classes are well balanced for the most part and the best balance we have had since 1.5. SOme tweaks yes, but no overhauls. WHy exactly are the classes not balanced? WHat can you point to? IS it b/c of cloak? As a NB the only thing that needs to be done to cloak is to lower or remove magika recovery while in cloak. Other than that it is very easy to counter. What else? The fact that NB have the best single target spammable stamina attack? NB were made with that in mine. outside of those two things what is there? Templars have jabs and self heal. SOrcs have shields and high burst. DK has sustain, tank damage, and heals.
Each class has something they can look to that no other class specializes in. Now where do the classes really differ?
They differ in solo and group play. NB and sorcs are better for solo play, but templar and DK are better for group play. So now players can choose based on their playstyle. Lets keep in mind that this strictly looks at pvp not pve. WHen you look at pve sorcs and NB are best for dps. DK best for tank and templar best for heals. Although you can play each in any role, they work best in the roles i mentioned.
What people are trying to do is make each class equally viable in each category. That is just ridiculous. Sure you can "play as you want," but that does not mean your race and class will be best for that. What the hell is the point of putting every class on the same level? Then what is the point? Each class should have a specialty and something they are better at then others.
For NB it is stamina burst dps and elusiveness. For sorc it is magika dps and shields. For DK it is tanking damage and sustain. For temp it is healing and sustain.
So again I ask what makes the classes so imbalanced? I am not saying it is perfect, but it is pretty solid. People need to stop thinking that a sorc should be better with stamina then a NB or that a DK should be able to tank and be elusive or that a templar shoudl also have heals and elusiveness etc.
Just like i said, Nb players (as their main char, at least in pvp duh i know most of the people play different classes) are the only ones that think the game is balanced.
A stam Dk is *** compared to a stam Nb in every situation i can think of, period.
So why's that? Oh yea, Nb is the balanced class and the answer to my quesiton is that Dks are underpowered/overnerfed.
Edit: For the love of god STOP BRINGING UP THE GOD DAMN HEALS. What about Stamina templars?! Are they supposed to be ***?
Edited by SemiD4rkness on October 19, 2015 1:46PM1 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭SemiD4rkness wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »As a templar i can honestly say that from my point of view Dk, Templar and Sorc (this last one at a smaller degree) need some kind of buff when compared to Nightblades.
Everytime a read a ''buff x class'' the only ones telling people left and right to L2p are nightblades, also pointing out all classes strenghts and forgetting about the bigger weaknesses. Also everytime i see a ''nerf x nightblade skill'' the same people tell everyone how the class is super balanced and even weak and blablabla L2p crap, sometimes they make me actually believe that nbs need some serious buffs.
I wanted to make a poll asking if people think Nb are op but is kinda pointless since they're the most popular class by far (no wonder why)
But if in a game of four classes only one is ''balanced' isnt it better to just nerf it until it is as underpowered as the others then the game would be finally balanced.
Im talking strictly from a PvP point of view, i feel like in pve all classes can do well in almost all roles.
Discuss.
im confused. how do you know what players are NB and which are not? DO you automatically assume if they dont agree with your perception that they must be a NB? Most players at this point play many classes. Simply lumping everyone into one class type is crazy. sure some are bias and have blind folds on to other clasees, but other do not. Also, bias works both ways.
I play all classes personally. However a stamina NB is my main. I have been playing a stam NB since launch and well before they were more and more the norm. IN fact, I was making a stamina NB work when no one even wante to group with a NB let alone a stamina class.
Side note: I have been using basically the same stamina NB build since launch. There was never a problem with NB until recently although NB gameplay has not really changed in that time. The difference is more people play it now, so it seems like it is the best class.
So here is the thing, NB have always been the best STDPS and best burst since the beginning. Why is it a problem now?
I do believe that all four classes are well balanced for the most part and the best balance we have had since 1.5. SOme tweaks yes, but no overhauls. WHy exactly are the classes not balanced? WHat can you point to? IS it b/c of cloak? As a NB the only thing that needs to be done to cloak is to lower or remove magika recovery while in cloak. Other than that it is very easy to counter. What else? The fact that NB have the best single target spammable stamina attack? NB were made with that in mine. outside of those two things what is there? Templars have jabs and self heal. SOrcs have shields and high burst. DK has sustain, tank damage, and heals.
Each class has something they can look to that no other class specializes in. Now where do the classes really differ?
They differ in solo and group play. NB and sorcs are better for solo play, but templar and DK are better for group play. So now players can choose based on their playstyle. Lets keep in mind that this strictly looks at pvp not pve. WHen you look at pve sorcs and NB are best for dps. DK best for tank and templar best for heals. Although you can play each in any role, they work best in the roles i mentioned.
What people are trying to do is make each class equally viable in each category. That is just ridiculous. Sure you can "play as you want," but that does not mean your race and class will be best for that. What the hell is the point of putting every class on the same level? Then what is the point? Each class should have a specialty and something they are better at then others.
For NB it is stamina burst dps and elusiveness. For sorc it is magika dps and shields. For DK it is tanking damage and sustain. For temp it is healing and sustain.
So again I ask what makes the classes so imbalanced? I am not saying it is perfect, but it is pretty solid. People need to stop thinking that a sorc should be better with stamina then a NB or that a DK should be able to tank and be elusive or that a templar shoudl also have heals and elusiveness etc.
Just like i said, Nb players (as their main char, at least in pvp duh i know most of the people play different classes) are the only ones that think the game is balanced.
A stam Dk is *** compared to a stam Nb in every situation i can think of, period.
So why's that? Oh yea, Nb is the balanced class and the answer to my quesiton is that Dks are underpowered/overnerfed.
Yes stamina NB are better because they were designed to be the best STDPS class in the game. As I already stated. That is not to say that a stamina DK is not viable, but only that stamina NB are supposed to be the best at STDPS for stamina users. A stamina DK can put out very solid damage, but can take more damage when fighting. Balance is not making both of them equally powerful at stamina. Balance is if one hits stronger, then what is the benefit of the other? Here a Stamina NB will hit harder, but also dies much quicker. A stamina DK can take more damage, but does not hit as hard. Moreover, the longer a fight between them goes the more likely a DK will win.
Additionally, if a NB hits harder and a DK takes more damage, than the two even out. On the flip side, a DK does not hit as hard, but a NB is not able to take as much damage. Again they even out.
Balance is not making every class equal in every department, but each having a strength and weakness.0 -
SemiD4rkness✭✭✭✭✭
*bowmanz607 wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »As a templar i can honestly say that from my point of view Dk, Templar and Sorc (this last one at a smaller degree) need some kind of buff when compared to Nightblades.
Everytime a read a ''buff x class'' the only ones telling people left and right to L2p are nightblades, also pointing out all classes strenghts and forgetting about the bigger weaknesses. Also everytime i see a ''nerf x nightblade skill'' the same people tell everyone how the class is super balanced and even weak and blablabla L2p crap, sometimes they make me actually believe that nbs need some serious buffs.
I wanted to make a poll asking if people think Nb are op but is kinda pointless since they're the most popular class by far (no wonder why)
But if in a game of four classes only one is ''balanced' isnt it better to just nerf it until it is as underpowered as the others then the game would be finally balanced.
Im talking strictly from a PvP point of view, i feel like in pve all classes can do well in almost all roles.
Discuss.
im confused. how do you know what players are NB and which are not? DO you automatically assume if they dont agree with your perception that they must be a NB? Most players at this point play many classes. Simply lumping everyone into one class type is crazy. sure some are bias and have blind folds on to other clasees, but other do not. Also, bias works both ways.
I play all classes personally. However a stamina NB is my main. I have been playing a stam NB since launch and well before they were more and more the norm. IN fact, I was making a stamina NB work when no one even wante to group with a NB let alone a stamina class.
Side note: I have been using basically the same stamina NB build since launch. There was never a problem with NB until recently although NB gameplay has not really changed in that time. The difference is more people play it now, so it seems like it is the best class.
So here is the thing, NB have always been the best STDPS and best burst since the beginning. Why is it a problem now?
I do believe that all four classes are well balanced for the most part and the best balance we have had since 1.5. SOme tweaks yes, but no overhauls. WHy exactly are the classes not balanced? WHat can you point to? IS it b/c of cloak? As a NB the only thing that needs to be done to cloak is to lower or remove magika recovery while in cloak. Other than that it is very easy to counter. What else? The fact that NB have the best single target spammable stamina attack? NB were made with that in mine. outside of those two things what is there? Templars have jabs and self heal. SOrcs have shields and high burst. DK has sustain, tank damage, and heals.
Each class has something they can look to that no other class specializes in. Now where do the classes really differ?
They differ in solo and group play. NB and sorcs are better for solo play, but templar and DK are better for group play. So now players can choose based on their playstyle. Lets keep in mind that this strictly looks at pvp not pve. WHen you look at pve sorcs and NB are best for dps. DK best for tank and templar best for heals. Although you can play each in any role, they work best in the roles i mentioned.
What people are trying to do is make each class equally viable in each category. That is just ridiculous. Sure you can "play as you want," but that does not mean your race and class will be best for that. What the hell is the point of putting every class on the same level? Then what is the point? Each class should have a specialty and something they are better at then others.
For NB it is stamina burst dps and elusiveness. For sorc it is magika dps and shields. For DK it is tanking damage and sustain. For temp it is healing and sustain.
So again I ask what makes the classes so imbalanced? I am not saying it is perfect, but it is pretty solid. People need to stop thinking that a sorc should be better with stamina then a NB or that a DK should be able to tank and be elusive or that a templar shoudl also have heals and elusiveness etc.
Just like i said, Nb players (as their main char, at least in pvp duh i know most of the people play different classes) are the only ones that think the game is balanced.
A stam Dk is *** compared to a stam Nb in every situation i can think of, period.
So why's that? Oh yea, Nb is the balanced class and the answer to my quesiton is that Dks are underpowered/overnerfed.
Yes stamina NB are better because they were designed to be the best STDPS class in the game. As I already stated. That is not to say that a stamina DK is not viable, but only that stamina NB are supposed to be the best at STDPS for stamina users. A stamina DK can put out very solid damage, but can take more damage when fighting. Balance is not making both of them equally powerful at stamina. Balance is if one hits stronger, then what is the benefit of the other? Here a Stamina NB will hit harder, but also dies much quicker. A stamina DK can take more damage, but does not hit as hard. Moreover, the longer a fight between them goes the more likely a DK will win.
Additionally, if a NB hits harder and a DK takes more damage, than the two even out. On the flip side, a DK does not hit as hard, but a NB is not able to take as much damage. Again they even out.
Balance is not making every class equal in every department, but each having a strength and weakness.
blablablablablabla no matter what you say the stam nb will take on the stam dk period.
So they shouldnt nerf Nb and shouldn't buff Dks just because its supposed to be that way, interesting.
0 -
Resipsa131✭✭✭
magicka nbs don't have the burst ability of stamina nbs. I think when ppl complain about nbs they lump the two together.terrasight wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »
You're right too, i should l2p.
Have a nice day with your balanced Nbs. And hey ,they should buff your weak cloak.
Have a nice day.
As a stamblade i can only cloak 3-4 time before my magicka runs out... thats a very short time.
So you ppl have an issue with permacloaks...then it's MagickaNB...
0 -
ShadowDisciple✭✭✭✭sorc is op...as a nighblade (main) i die to every class....but as my sorc, i just drop ppl...easy to play and super bursty.. pew pew.. streak streak... pew pew... shieldbreaker? no sweat i streak to them and pew pew..they die..
NB's sux...i just like rogues so i play NB but its so boring class to play lately xD1 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »
You are right, it's never going to be balanced. You are 100% correct. The only thing your whining has accomplished and will accomplish is the destruction of anything interesting and unique in this game. All for the sake of 'balance' that is impossible to achieve.SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »Everytime a class has an ability that is overpowered, people cry for a nerf and ZOS overnerfs.
During beta, Templars were actually quite powerful (Bowplar anyone?), able to solo a lot of instances and world bosses with ease. Things other classes couldn't do, so people cried nerf. And thus you ended up with the broken Templar at release.
The same can be said about the DK. People complained, ZOS listened, and now DK is broken.
Sorcerers have had their share of nerfs as well. I'm surprised that class isn't broken.
NB was weak and pretty much broken before some of the improvements to stamina came into play. Now players say it is over powered, but would it still be considered overpowered if Templar hadn't taken a hit during beta and DK hadn't been nerfed fairly recently?
The problem is, when you try to balance classes for PvP, you just end up making a bigger mess of things. People will always flock to whatever class is the least damaged and most functional of the moment.
If NB gets nerfed. My guess is that Sorc will reclaim the throne as the new meta, until it gets nerfed. Eventually we'll end up with classes too weak to take on the current content and ZOS will have to nerf that too. It's a viscous cycle.
Maybe, instead of complaining that one class is too powerful, people need to start complaining the other classes have been over-nerfed.
Stop the nerfing! Stop the madness!
Sooner or later Nbs will be nerfed, and thats just fair for all other 3 classes.
Look what happened to Dks.People think theyre underpowered because they believe Nightblade is the balanced class but its not, its OP.
If you compare a Dk to a templar right now, thats balance. Do the same with a Nightblade and suddenly Dks are ***.
"Only fair" < and that's what's wrong with this community.
Blegh. I'm for reversing the majority of nerfs. But that's never gona happen.
You're so right, all classes have been nerfed so much that it wouldn't make sense to nerf the current OP class.
And the point flies so far over your head I'm sure you didn't even see it. It's going to get nerfed. You are right about that. It still doesn't mean that you and whiners like you are toxic to this community.
Its an MMO, what do you expect? people to just shut up about the ununfairness of pvp in this game?
If thats what you want then they should have deleted all clases last year and let all be op magicka Dks.
bye.
L2P. Seriously. Back when dks were the 'omg so op' class I had little trouble dealing with them. Keep whining, history proves you will get your way.
L2p, l2p and l2p.
Yes its been said to me and EVERYONE who comments in favor of a ''nerf nbs'' thread.
We will see whos gonna need the l2p after the nerf.
It's still going to be you. And again the point goes over your head.
So if the Nbs get overnerfed i shouldn't talk in favor of them right?
And you, the pro, are gonna outplay all the other 3 classes and tell me to l2p right?
The game has PvP, and like it or not its never going to be balanced. Thats why the ''whiners'' as you call them are needed to give feedback and try to balance the game out.
Im done with you.
I would love for you to show me where I have said that nightblades aren't the current 'op' class. And the really funny thing is that I am in absolutely no stretch of the imagination 'the pro.' I suck dude.
You make zero sense to me. You agree that Nbs are the Op class atm (and if you dont idc because it's obvious)
but you dont like when people talk about it, then how could ZOS know about a class being op if no one ever mention it.
I know it must be ''unique''and ''interesting'' to play the class that sh*ts all over the rest but doesnt mean it shouldnt be destroyed.
PD: Didn't know the word S*** was censored on this forum, my apologies for using it.
Let's go a different route. What buffs do you think the other classes need?
I dont feel like discussing with you, its like talking to a wall. You still make 0 sense.
Im not asking for buffs im asking for a nerf.
And im saying thats whats wrong with whiners.This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!1 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭SemiD4rkness wrote: »
*bowmanz607 wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »As a templar i can honestly say that from my point of view Dk, Templar and Sorc (this last one at a smaller degree) need some kind of buff when compared to Nightblades.
Everytime a read a ''buff x class'' the only ones telling people left and right to L2p are nightblades, also pointing out all classes strenghts and forgetting about the bigger weaknesses. Also everytime i see a ''nerf x nightblade skill'' the same people tell everyone how the class is super balanced and even weak and blablabla L2p crap, sometimes they make me actually believe that nbs need some serious buffs.
I wanted to make a poll asking if people think Nb are op but is kinda pointless since they're the most popular class by far (no wonder why)
But if in a game of four classes only one is ''balanced' isnt it better to just nerf it until it is as underpowered as the others then the game would be finally balanced.
Im talking strictly from a PvP point of view, i feel like in pve all classes can do well in almost all roles.
Discuss.
im confused. how do you know what players are NB and which are not? DO you automatically assume if they dont agree with your perception that they must be a NB? Most players at this point play many classes. Simply lumping everyone into one class type is crazy. sure some are bias and have blind folds on to other clasees, but other do not. Also, bias works both ways.
I play all classes personally. However a stamina NB is my main. I have been playing a stam NB since launch and well before they were more and more the norm. IN fact, I was making a stamina NB work when no one even wante to group with a NB let alone a stamina class.
Side note: I have been using basically the same stamina NB build since launch. There was never a problem with NB until recently although NB gameplay has not really changed in that time. The difference is more people play it now, so it seems like it is the best class.
So here is the thing, NB have always been the best STDPS and best burst since the beginning. Why is it a problem now?
I do believe that all four classes are well balanced for the most part and the best balance we have had since 1.5. SOme tweaks yes, but no overhauls. WHy exactly are the classes not balanced? WHat can you point to? IS it b/c of cloak? As a NB the only thing that needs to be done to cloak is to lower or remove magika recovery while in cloak. Other than that it is very easy to counter. What else? The fact that NB have the best single target spammable stamina attack? NB were made with that in mine. outside of those two things what is there? Templars have jabs and self heal. SOrcs have shields and high burst. DK has sustain, tank damage, and heals.
Each class has something they can look to that no other class specializes in. Now where do the classes really differ?
They differ in solo and group play. NB and sorcs are better for solo play, but templar and DK are better for group play. So now players can choose based on their playstyle. Lets keep in mind that this strictly looks at pvp not pve. WHen you look at pve sorcs and NB are best for dps. DK best for tank and templar best for heals. Although you can play each in any role, they work best in the roles i mentioned.
What people are trying to do is make each class equally viable in each category. That is just ridiculous. Sure you can "play as you want," but that does not mean your race and class will be best for that. What the hell is the point of putting every class on the same level? Then what is the point? Each class should have a specialty and something they are better at then others.
For NB it is stamina burst dps and elusiveness. For sorc it is magika dps and shields. For DK it is tanking damage and sustain. For temp it is healing and sustain.
So again I ask what makes the classes so imbalanced? I am not saying it is perfect, but it is pretty solid. People need to stop thinking that a sorc should be better with stamina then a NB or that a DK should be able to tank and be elusive or that a templar shoudl also have heals and elusiveness etc.
Just like i said, Nb players (as their main char, at least in pvp duh i know most of the people play different classes) are the only ones that think the game is balanced.
A stam Dk is *** compared to a stam Nb in every situation i can think of, period.
So why's that? Oh yea, Nb is the balanced class and the answer to my quesiton is that Dks are underpowered/overnerfed.
Yes stamina NB are better because they were designed to be the best STDPS class in the game. As I already stated. That is not to say that a stamina DK is not viable, but only that stamina NB are supposed to be the best at STDPS for stamina users. A stamina DK can put out very solid damage, but can take more damage when fighting. Balance is not making both of them equally powerful at stamina. Balance is if one hits stronger, then what is the benefit of the other? Here a Stamina NB will hit harder, but also dies much quicker. A stamina DK can take more damage, but does not hit as hard. Moreover, the longer a fight between them goes the more likely a DK will win.
Additionally, if a NB hits harder and a DK takes more damage, than the two even out. On the flip side, a DK does not hit as hard, but a NB is not able to take as much damage. Again they even out.
Balance is not making every class equal in every department, but each having a strength and weakness.
blablablablablabla no matter what you say the stam nb will take on the stam dk period.
So they shouldnt nerf Nb and shouldn't buff Dks just because its supposed to be that way, interesting.
wow way to have a meaningful discussion. your blabla argument is so good. It obviously shows your intelletual skills at work and really makes people want to see your point even more. How do you expect people to listen to you if you can not even give a solid argument?
Being that I duel stamina DKs with my stamina NB and lose just as much as i win I would say your wring. IN fact, many many players will say that 1v1 a dk is going to have one of the strongest arguments for being the best. Where they lack is 1vx and this is where stam NB are better.
What i am saying is that each class and build has weaknesses and strengths. As i have already explained.
You are failing to realize what I am saying. Balance is not every stamina user is going to have the best dps. However, that does not make them unbalanced. WHere one gains in damage they lose in damage taken. Where one lacks in damage, they gain in taking damage.
You have provided no argument whatsoever that there is an imbalance. You simply state that there is one with nothing to back up your position. No line of reasoning whatsoever. I on the other hand have provide in game experience and logical reasoning as to why the classes are balanced for the most part. I have no problem getting into a logically reasoned debate. That is what makes this game better. Healthy debate is always good. But when you make a generalized statement with no reasoning and then counter my argument with "blablabla i am right" you have provided no basis for listening to your side of things.
At least make a reasoned analysis for your postion. W/o that you are just QQ.
Sure i my main is a NB. BUt i PLay all classes. However, noen of that really matters when I provide a well-reasoned argument. In fact it is an objective argument not a subjective one. I do not believe that a stam NB puts out more damage and takes less and vice versa for a stam DK. That is simply a fact. Just because you may play a stamina DK and lose to stamina NB does not mean that there is an imbalance.
Again, I have no problem debating. IN fact I love it. But at least provide some sort of objective reasoning that will back up your argument. Until then you have no leg to stand on. his is the main problem with a lot of QQ threads. They make generlaized statements without giving any sound analysis. I challenge you to break this trend.
3 -
SemiD4rkness✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »
*bowmanz607 wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »As a templar i can honestly say that from my point of view Dk, Templar and Sorc (this last one at a smaller degree) need some kind of buff when compared to Nightblades.
Everytime a read a ''buff x class'' the only ones telling people left and right to L2p are nightblades, also pointing out all classes strenghts and forgetting about the bigger weaknesses. Also everytime i see a ''nerf x nightblade skill'' the same people tell everyone how the class is super balanced and even weak and blablabla L2p crap, sometimes they make me actually believe that nbs need some serious buffs.
I wanted to make a poll asking if people think Nb are op but is kinda pointless since they're the most popular class by far (no wonder why)
But if in a game of four classes only one is ''balanced' isnt it better to just nerf it until it is as underpowered as the others then the game would be finally balanced.
Im talking strictly from a PvP point of view, i feel like in pve all classes can do well in almost all roles.
Discuss.
im confused. how do you know what players are NB and which are not? DO you automatically assume if they dont agree with your perception that they must be a NB? Most players at this point play many classes. Simply lumping everyone into one class type is crazy. sure some are bias and have blind folds on to other clasees, but other do not. Also, bias works both ways.
I play all classes personally. However a stamina NB is my main. I have been playing a stam NB since launch and well before they were more and more the norm. IN fact, I was making a stamina NB work when no one even wante to group with a NB let alone a stamina class.
Side note: I have been using basically the same stamina NB build since launch. There was never a problem with NB until recently although NB gameplay has not really changed in that time. The difference is more people play it now, so it seems like it is the best class.
So here is the thing, NB have always been the best STDPS and best burst since the beginning. Why is it a problem now?
I do believe that all four classes are well balanced for the most part and the best balance we have had since 1.5. SOme tweaks yes, but no overhauls. WHy exactly are the classes not balanced? WHat can you point to? IS it b/c of cloak? As a NB the only thing that needs to be done to cloak is to lower or remove magika recovery while in cloak. Other than that it is very easy to counter. What else? The fact that NB have the best single target spammable stamina attack? NB were made with that in mine. outside of those two things what is there? Templars have jabs and self heal. SOrcs have shields and high burst. DK has sustain, tank damage, and heals.
Each class has something they can look to that no other class specializes in. Now where do the classes really differ?
They differ in solo and group play. NB and sorcs are better for solo play, but templar and DK are better for group play. So now players can choose based on their playstyle. Lets keep in mind that this strictly looks at pvp not pve. WHen you look at pve sorcs and NB are best for dps. DK best for tank and templar best for heals. Although you can play each in any role, they work best in the roles i mentioned.
What people are trying to do is make each class equally viable in each category. That is just ridiculous. Sure you can "play as you want," but that does not mean your race and class will be best for that. What the hell is the point of putting every class on the same level? Then what is the point? Each class should have a specialty and something they are better at then others.
For NB it is stamina burst dps and elusiveness. For sorc it is magika dps and shields. For DK it is tanking damage and sustain. For temp it is healing and sustain.
So again I ask what makes the classes so imbalanced? I am not saying it is perfect, but it is pretty solid. People need to stop thinking that a sorc should be better with stamina then a NB or that a DK should be able to tank and be elusive or that a templar shoudl also have heals and elusiveness etc.
Just like i said, Nb players (as their main char, at least in pvp duh i know most of the people play different classes) are the only ones that think the game is balanced.
A stam Dk is *** compared to a stam Nb in every situation i can think of, period.
So why's that? Oh yea, Nb is the balanced class and the answer to my quesiton is that Dks are underpowered/overnerfed.
Yes stamina NB are better because they were designed to be the best STDPS class in the game. As I already stated. That is not to say that a stamina DK is not viable, but only that stamina NB are supposed to be the best at STDPS for stamina users. A stamina DK can put out very solid damage, but can take more damage when fighting. Balance is not making both of them equally powerful at stamina. Balance is if one hits stronger, then what is the benefit of the other? Here a Stamina NB will hit harder, but also dies much quicker. A stamina DK can take more damage, but does not hit as hard. Moreover, the longer a fight between them goes the more likely a DK will win.
Additionally, if a NB hits harder and a DK takes more damage, than the two even out. On the flip side, a DK does not hit as hard, but a NB is not able to take as much damage. Again they even out.
Balance is not making every class equal in every department, but each having a strength and weakness.
blablablablablabla no matter what you say the stam nb will take on the stam dk period.
So they shouldnt nerf Nb and shouldn't buff Dks just because its supposed to be that way, interesting.
wow way to have a meaningful discussion. your blabla argument is so good. It obviously shows your intelletual skills at work and really makes people want to see your point even more. How do you expect people to listen to you if you can not even give a solid argument?
Being that I duel stamina DKs with my stamina NB and lose just as much as i win I would say your wring. IN fact, many many players will say that 1v1 a dk is going to have one of the strongest arguments for being the best. Where they lack is 1vx and this is where stam NB are better.
What i am saying is that each class and build has weaknesses and strengths. As i have already explained.
You are failing to realize what I am saying. Balance is not every stamina user is going to have the best dps. However, that does not make them unbalanced. WHere one gains in damage they lose in damage taken. Where one lacks in damage, they gain in taking damage.
You have provided no argument whatsoever that there is an imbalance. You simply state that there is one with nothing to back up your position. No line of reasoning whatsoever. I on the other hand have provide in game experience and logical reasoning as to why the classes are balanced for the most part. I have no problem getting into a logically reasoned debate. That is what makes this game better. Healthy debate is always good. But when you make a generalized statement with no reasoning and then counter my argument with "blablabla i am right" you have provided no basis for listening to your side of things.
At least make a reasoned analysis for your postion. W/o that you are just QQ.
Sure i my main is a NB. BUt i PLay all classes. However, noen of that really matters when I provide a well-reasoned argument. In fact it is an objective argument not a subjective one. I do not believe that a stam NB puts out more damage and takes less and vice versa for a stam DK. That is simply a fact. Just because you may play a stamina DK and lose to stamina NB does not mean that there is an imbalance.
Again, I have no problem debating. IN fact I love it. But at least provide some sort of objective reasoning that will back up your argument. Until then you have no leg to stand on. his is the main problem with a lot of QQ threads. They make generlaized statements without giving any sound analysis. I challenge you to break this trend.
The blabla argument was given because im tired of my own thread already, nbs keep telling themselves that the game is balanced. We could have had a nice discussion you and me but as i told you i have no intentions to keep arguing against a Nb defender. Nerf will eventually come and thats it. I just wanted to know different reasons why they think the way they do but all i got was l2p scrub.
Have a nice day !
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jhharvest✭✭✭The only way to resolve arguments like these would be if Zos decided to release comprehensive statistics on PVP classes and skills used vs. Cyro rank and overall ranking in the leaderboards. They haven't so it's difficult to prove definitely that one class or another is more powerful. There are many forms of cognitive bias that make it very difficult to spot patterns here, regardless of what side of the fence you lie on.
I would like Zos to give us those statistics, btw. Then people could make informed decisions on what classes to pick, also whether or not their subjective impressions of class balance are correct or not.1 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭SemiD4rkness wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »
*bowmanz607 wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »As a templar i can honestly say that from my point of view Dk, Templar and Sorc (this last one at a smaller degree) need some kind of buff when compared to Nightblades.
Everytime a read a ''buff x class'' the only ones telling people left and right to L2p are nightblades, also pointing out all classes strenghts and forgetting about the bigger weaknesses. Also everytime i see a ''nerf x nightblade skill'' the same people tell everyone how the class is super balanced and even weak and blablabla L2p crap, sometimes they make me actually believe that nbs need some serious buffs.
I wanted to make a poll asking if people think Nb are op but is kinda pointless since they're the most popular class by far (no wonder why)
But if in a game of four classes only one is ''balanced' isnt it better to just nerf it until it is as underpowered as the others then the game would be finally balanced.
Im talking strictly from a PvP point of view, i feel like in pve all classes can do well in almost all roles.
Discuss.
im confused. how do you know what players are NB and which are not? DO you automatically assume if they dont agree with your perception that they must be a NB? Most players at this point play many classes. Simply lumping everyone into one class type is crazy. sure some are bias and have blind folds on to other clasees, but other do not. Also, bias works both ways.
I play all classes personally. However a stamina NB is my main. I have been playing a stam NB since launch and well before they were more and more the norm. IN fact, I was making a stamina NB work when no one even wante to group with a NB let alone a stamina class.
Side note: I have been using basically the same stamina NB build since launch. There was never a problem with NB until recently although NB gameplay has not really changed in that time. The difference is more people play it now, so it seems like it is the best class.
So here is the thing, NB have always been the best STDPS and best burst since the beginning. Why is it a problem now?
I do believe that all four classes are well balanced for the most part and the best balance we have had since 1.5. SOme tweaks yes, but no overhauls. WHy exactly are the classes not balanced? WHat can you point to? IS it b/c of cloak? As a NB the only thing that needs to be done to cloak is to lower or remove magika recovery while in cloak. Other than that it is very easy to counter. What else? The fact that NB have the best single target spammable stamina attack? NB were made with that in mine. outside of those two things what is there? Templars have jabs and self heal. SOrcs have shields and high burst. DK has sustain, tank damage, and heals.
Each class has something they can look to that no other class specializes in. Now where do the classes really differ?
They differ in solo and group play. NB and sorcs are better for solo play, but templar and DK are better for group play. So now players can choose based on their playstyle. Lets keep in mind that this strictly looks at pvp not pve. WHen you look at pve sorcs and NB are best for dps. DK best for tank and templar best for heals. Although you can play each in any role, they work best in the roles i mentioned.
What people are trying to do is make each class equally viable in each category. That is just ridiculous. Sure you can "play as you want," but that does not mean your race and class will be best for that. What the hell is the point of putting every class on the same level? Then what is the point? Each class should have a specialty and something they are better at then others.
For NB it is stamina burst dps and elusiveness. For sorc it is magika dps and shields. For DK it is tanking damage and sustain. For temp it is healing and sustain.
So again I ask what makes the classes so imbalanced? I am not saying it is perfect, but it is pretty solid. People need to stop thinking that a sorc should be better with stamina then a NB or that a DK should be able to tank and be elusive or that a templar shoudl also have heals and elusiveness etc.
Just like i said, Nb players (as their main char, at least in pvp duh i know most of the people play different classes) are the only ones that think the game is balanced.
A stam Dk is *** compared to a stam Nb in every situation i can think of, period.
So why's that? Oh yea, Nb is the balanced class and the answer to my quesiton is that Dks are underpowered/overnerfed.
Yes stamina NB are better because they were designed to be the best STDPS class in the game. As I already stated. That is not to say that a stamina DK is not viable, but only that stamina NB are supposed to be the best at STDPS for stamina users. A stamina DK can put out very solid damage, but can take more damage when fighting. Balance is not making both of them equally powerful at stamina. Balance is if one hits stronger, then what is the benefit of the other? Here a Stamina NB will hit harder, but also dies much quicker. A stamina DK can take more damage, but does not hit as hard. Moreover, the longer a fight between them goes the more likely a DK will win.
Additionally, if a NB hits harder and a DK takes more damage, than the two even out. On the flip side, a DK does not hit as hard, but a NB is not able to take as much damage. Again they even out.
Balance is not making every class equal in every department, but each having a strength and weakness.
blablablablablabla no matter what you say the stam nb will take on the stam dk period.
So they shouldnt nerf Nb and shouldn't buff Dks just because its supposed to be that way, interesting.
wow way to have a meaningful discussion. your blabla argument is so good. It obviously shows your intelletual skills at work and really makes people want to see your point even more. How do you expect people to listen to you if you can not even give a solid argument?
Being that I duel stamina DKs with my stamina NB and lose just as much as i win I would say your wring. IN fact, many many players will say that 1v1 a dk is going to have one of the strongest arguments for being the best. Where they lack is 1vx and this is where stam NB are better.
What i am saying is that each class and build has weaknesses and strengths. As i have already explained.
You are failing to realize what I am saying. Balance is not every stamina user is going to have the best dps. However, that does not make them unbalanced. WHere one gains in damage they lose in damage taken. Where one lacks in damage, they gain in taking damage.
You have provided no argument whatsoever that there is an imbalance. You simply state that there is one with nothing to back up your position. No line of reasoning whatsoever. I on the other hand have provide in game experience and logical reasoning as to why the classes are balanced for the most part. I have no problem getting into a logically reasoned debate. That is what makes this game better. Healthy debate is always good. But when you make a generalized statement with no reasoning and then counter my argument with "blablabla i am right" you have provided no basis for listening to your side of things.
At least make a reasoned analysis for your postion. W/o that you are just QQ.
Sure i my main is a NB. BUt i PLay all classes. However, noen of that really matters when I provide a well-reasoned argument. In fact it is an objective argument not a subjective one. I do not believe that a stam NB puts out more damage and takes less and vice versa for a stam DK. That is simply a fact. Just because you may play a stamina DK and lose to stamina NB does not mean that there is an imbalance.
Again, I have no problem debating. IN fact I love it. But at least provide some sort of objective reasoning that will back up your argument. Until then you have no leg to stand on. his is the main problem with a lot of QQ threads. They make generlaized statements without giving any sound analysis. I challenge you to break this trend.
The blabla argument was given because im tired of my own thread already, nbs keep telling themselves that the game is balanced. We could have had a nice discussion you and me but as i told you i have no intentions to keep arguing against a Nb defender. Nerf will eventually come and thats it. I just wanted to know different reasons why they think the way they do but all i got was l2p scrub.
Have a nice day !
I never said L2P. Please tell me where my logic is flawed? As far as defending NB...I am not. I am giving objective reasons as to why it is balanced. what is wrong with my argument? where is it flawed? give me some analysis. Hell if you dont want to repeat yourself, tell me where you have wrote your arguments. what number are the comments? I am trying to have a reasoned argument, but you are not helping that. You simply lump me into a category of people that dont know what they are talking about, yet I have shown based on my reasoning that I do know what I am talking about. Hell, after 2200 hours I think I have knowledge about this game. But you are giving me nothing. How am I supposed to see your side of things if you wont tell me why you think the way you think? How are you ever going to get your position heard if you can not articulate it? You are just as bad as the NB players who say l2p w/o any analysis as to why they think the way they do. You have fallen into the same category of players which you seem to despise.0 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Powerpeach wrote: »As a magicka templar in PVP i never really had a problem with nightblades till yesterday,
I went into arena district and had some 1vs1 fights.
I dueled a Nightblade and he jumped out of stealth and killed me in less than 2 seconds i could believe it..... my death recap said Flurry 8k , 8k , 8k, I took a screenshot as im in 5 piece heavy Armour wearing 4x elf bane set vr16 and engine guardian set vr16 with 2x torags pact vr16, while standing in channel focus ..... roughly 21k physical resistance.
I went back and said fine let me go offensive put my buffs down and started puncturing sweeps in his direction,
I pulled him out of stealth with my one second stun and thought great this guy will be a glass cannon lets nuke
..... Oh how wrong i was,
his health bar barely moved and Bang 2 seconds later im dead 8K Flurry 8k Flurry 8k Flurry. This was beyond insane i have never seen this happen so i messaged the guy asking him how many CP he had.....
he said 330 whats a lot on console *(compared to my 200) but seriously this burst didn't even given me time to click one button with 50% damage reduction on i just couldn't believe it ..... i feel sorry for anyone with less resistance than me in pvp the only class that survived a lot longer was a sorc fighting him they seemed like they were having a interesting fight but then got beaten every time.
Anyways my Thoughts behind it is everyone reroll as nightblades i did the same with SORCs before IC and had so much fun shield stacking and tanking everyone.
Leaving my templar too PVE, until they do something about rooting me too the ground every second and the sheer lack of burst damage we have.
Cant wait though this post plus the the wrecking blow posts gets me super excited about re-rolling nightblade ...... then i will come on here and message everyone saying L2P
muuuuhhhaaaaaaa
You know, as someone who wants to get into PvP, you're actually making me consider rerolling as a NB now"If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."0 -
SleepyTroll✭✭✭✭✭
✭Give the classes back their originality. This is the result of everyone cry for nerfs and wanting their classes to be like the others.2 -
Bloodgharm✭✭✭I want to preface this by saying that my post is simply educated conjecture with my point of view on individual players and not the community as a whole.
It is my belief that most players that advocate nerfs/buffs are simply those that have just lost a bout with whatever class they are playing against with little more than a few encounters to back up their claims. They become enraged that a few players with optimal strategies and (possibly) underhanded tactics got the best of them. I think that they aren't pulling from a large enough sample size to determine that any one class is OP.
In a fit over losing a few matches against a build with tactics that they were not specced to defeat, they charge to the forums to cry foul of the OP-ness of what ever class beat them. I highly doubt any of these forum posters actually took the time to think about how and why they were beaten, much less how their strategy wasn't the optimal choice for that scenario.
ZoS has, for the most part, set up their combat system with a complex array of checks and balances. Of course, not everything can be accounted for at all times which is why a patch is implemented to fix any blatantly powerful first order optimal strategies (FOOS). This is the case in most online multiplayer games out now. However, some strategies are more powerful, but require a significant skill requirement to pull off. To the player on the receiving end of these strategies, it can seem that they were beaten unfairly, when it was just the outright skill of the opposing player besting them in combat.
What I'm trying to get at is that players who think they have been unfairly beaten, should look back and analyze why they were beaten. It may not always be that a certain class or build is OP and often times comes down to a simple mistake they made that left an opening for the other player. If they truly feEl that the system is flawed, they should attempt to test their theory against multiple opponents instead of just focusing on a few experiences.
Again, this isn't necessarily true for the whole of the community, just the over-competitive sore loses who can't conceive that they were just outplayed. There will be times when a particular skill or strategy is highly powerful AND easy to pull off, but those do get fixed once the entirety of the community jumps on that bandwagon and makes it the new meta.
TL;DR L2P3 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭SemiD4rkness wrote: »Cherryblossom wrote: »How can you say one class is op over another, it depends on what you want the class to do!
If you want someone to heal, I would say Templar is OP.
If you want someone to take it to the face, then DK is OP
If you want someone to Burst DPS then Sorc is OP
If you want someone to Gank then NB is OP
everything is situational, in PVP as a solo player I prefer to be a NB as you can sneak easier. But in a group I prefer my Templar or Sorc.
Everything comes down to play style, if my Sorc gets ganked I'm 95% sure I'll get away! If my Templar gets Ganked I hope someone rescues me before my magic runs out!
Just because you get get killed by people are really good player who know how to play their class, does not mean the class is OP. I've seen all classes played in ways I only wish I could have the skill to react like some people are able to.
There have been occassions where some classes have been OP, due to some mechanics with their class and other skills or sets, but currently I'd say there is a lot of balance. Although I hate to admit it, DK's could do with a little buff (I'm not a DK player) after the last update, they seem a little underpowered, especially considering that at one point they were really OP.
So you're saying you wouldn't buff templars?
They can heal yes (people always forget that magicka isnt the only option but im tired of pointing this out) but if the game was balanced in a 1v1 scenario the templar shouldnt die to the nightblade, but as soon as you stop spamming heals to do any kind of damage you die. So balanced!
The only thing that ever kills my magicka templar is a shield stacking sorcerer, mainly as my bread amd butter dps puncturing sweeps is bugged and doesn't apply the 140% dps buff to shields and they wear my resources down spamming frags and other abilities.
Nightblades are by far the class that kills me the least, their all or nothing, I lay down purifying and channeled focus, quick couple heals to negate all that amazing burst dps that didn't kill me, then a few sweeps plus a radiant and they're on the floor.
In fact 1v1 I can't remember the last time a nightblade killed me, hell even 2 v 1 I can hold them off, it's easy since they're so predictible.3 -
SleepyTroll✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Agreed. 100%Bloodgharm wrote: »I want to preface this by saying that my post is simply educated conjecture with my point of view on individual players and not the community as a whole.
It is my belief that most players that advocate nerfs/buffs are simply those that have just lost a bout with whatever class they y are playing against with little more than a few encounters to back up their claims. They become enraged that a few players with optimal strategies and (possibly) underhanded tactics got the best of them. I think that they aren't pulling from a large enough sample size to determine that any one class is OP.
In a fit over losing a few matches against a build with tactics that they were not specced to defeat, they charge to the forums to cry foul of the OP-ness of what ever class beat them. I highly doubt any of these forum posters actually took the time to think about how and why they were beaten, much less how their strategy wasn't the optimal choice for that scenario.
ZoS has, for the most part, set up their combat system with a complex array of checks and balances. Of course, not everything can be accounted for at all times which is why a patch is implemented to fix any blatantly powerful first order optimal strategies (FOOS). This is the case in most online multiplayer games out now. However, some strategies are more powerful, but require a significant skill requirement to pull off. To the player on the receiving end of these strategies, it can seem that they were beaten unfairly, when it was just the outright skill of the opposing player besting them in combat.
What I'm trying to get at is that players who think they have been unfairly beaten, should look back and analyze why they were beaten. It may not always be that a certain class or build is OP and often times comes down to a simple mistake they made that left an opening for the other player. If they truly feEl that the system is flawed, they should attempt to test their theory against multiple opponents instead of just focusing on a few experiences.
Again, this isn't necessarily true for the whole of the community, just the over-competitive sore loses who can't conceive that they were just outplayed. There will be times when a particular skill or strategy is highly powerful AND easy to pull off, but those do get fixed once the entirety of the community jumps on that bandwagon and makes it the new meta.
TL;DR L2P
"My class needs buffs, nerf the others" then your class becomes better and the csycle of nerf's continue. Asking ZOS for nerfs is a horrible idea, they nerf hard as *** and don't look back. There buffs though are very incrememntal, so those are safer. But if you want you class just to be like every other class I don't feel for you(Templar getting an escape) but if you want some buffs to the abysmal blazing shield or useless skills/morphs I can get behind that.
1 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »
*bowmanz607 wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »As a templar i can honestly say that from my point of view Dk, Templar and Sorc (this last one at a smaller degree) need some kind of buff when compared to Nightblades.
Everytime a read a ''buff x class'' the only ones telling people left and right to L2p are nightblades, also pointing out all classes strenghts and forgetting about the bigger weaknesses. Also everytime i see a ''nerf x nightblade skill'' the same people tell everyone how the class is super balanced and even weak and blablabla L2p crap, sometimes they make me actually believe that nbs need some serious buffs.
I wanted to make a poll asking if people think Nb are op but is kinda pointless since they're the most popular class by far (no wonder why)
But if in a game of four classes only one is ''balanced' isnt it better to just nerf it until it is as underpowered as the others then the game would be finally balanced.
Im talking strictly from a PvP point of view, i feel like in pve all classes can do well in almost all roles.
Discuss.
im confused. how do you know what players are NB and which are not? DO you automatically assume if they dont agree with your perception that they must be a NB? Most players at this point play many classes. Simply lumping everyone into one class type is crazy. sure some are bias and have blind folds on to other clasees, but other do not. Also, bias works both ways.
I play all classes personally. However a stamina NB is my main. I have been playing a stam NB since launch and well before they were more and more the norm. IN fact, I was making a stamina NB work when no one even wante to group with a NB let alone a stamina class.
Side note: I have been using basically the same stamina NB build since launch. There was never a problem with NB until recently although NB gameplay has not really changed in that time. The difference is more people play it now, so it seems like it is the best class.
So here is the thing, NB have always been the best STDPS and best burst since the beginning. Why is it a problem now?
I do believe that all four classes are well balanced for the most part and the best balance we have had since 1.5. SOme tweaks yes, but no overhauls. WHy exactly are the classes not balanced? WHat can you point to? IS it b/c of cloak? As a NB the only thing that needs to be done to cloak is to lower or remove magika recovery while in cloak. Other than that it is very easy to counter. What else? The fact that NB have the best single target spammable stamina attack? NB were made with that in mine. outside of those two things what is there? Templars have jabs and self heal. SOrcs have shields and high burst. DK has sustain, tank damage, and heals.
Each class has something they can look to that no other class specializes in. Now where do the classes really differ?
They differ in solo and group play. NB and sorcs are better for solo play, but templar and DK are better for group play. So now players can choose based on their playstyle. Lets keep in mind that this strictly looks at pvp not pve. WHen you look at pve sorcs and NB are best for dps. DK best for tank and templar best for heals. Although you can play each in any role, they work best in the roles i mentioned.
What people are trying to do is make each class equally viable in each category. That is just ridiculous. Sure you can "play as you want," but that does not mean your race and class will be best for that. What the hell is the point of putting every class on the same level? Then what is the point? Each class should have a specialty and something they are better at then others.
For NB it is stamina burst dps and elusiveness. For sorc it is magika dps and shields. For DK it is tanking damage and sustain. For temp it is healing and sustain.
So again I ask what makes the classes so imbalanced? I am not saying it is perfect, but it is pretty solid. People need to stop thinking that a sorc should be better with stamina then a NB or that a DK should be able to tank and be elusive or that a templar shoudl also have heals and elusiveness etc.
Just like i said, Nb players (as their main char, at least in pvp duh i know most of the people play different classes) are the only ones that think the game is balanced.
A stam Dk is *** compared to a stam Nb in every situation i can think of, period.
So why's that? Oh yea, Nb is the balanced class and the answer to my quesiton is that Dks are underpowered/overnerfed.
Yes stamina NB are better because they were designed to be the best STDPS class in the game. As I already stated. That is not to say that a stamina DK is not viable, but only that stamina NB are supposed to be the best at STDPS for stamina users. A stamina DK can put out very solid damage, but can take more damage when fighting. Balance is not making both of them equally powerful at stamina. Balance is if one hits stronger, then what is the benefit of the other? Here a Stamina NB will hit harder, but also dies much quicker. A stamina DK can take more damage, but does not hit as hard. Moreover, the longer a fight between them goes the more likely a DK will win.
Additionally, if a NB hits harder and a DK takes more damage, than the two even out. On the flip side, a DK does not hit as hard, but a NB is not able to take as much damage. Again they even out.
Balance is not making every class equal in every department, but each having a strength and weakness.
blablablablablabla no matter what you say the stam nb will take on the stam dk period.
So they shouldnt nerf Nb and shouldn't buff Dks just because its supposed to be that way, interesting.
wow way to have a meaningful discussion. your blabla argument is so good. It obviously shows your intelletual skills at work and really makes people want to see your point even more. How do you expect people to listen to you if you can not even give a solid argument?
Being that I duel stamina DKs with my stamina NB and lose just as much as i win I would say your wring. IN fact, many many players will say that 1v1 a dk is going to have one of the strongest arguments for being the best. Where they lack is 1vx and this is where stam NB are better.
What i am saying is that each class and build has weaknesses and strengths. As i have already explained.
You are failing to realize what I am saying. Balance is not every stamina user is going to have the best dps. However, that does not make them unbalanced. WHere one gains in damage they lose in damage taken. Where one lacks in damage, they gain in taking damage.
You have provided no argument whatsoever that there is an imbalance. You simply state that there is one with nothing to back up your position. No line of reasoning whatsoever. I on the other hand have provide in game experience and logical reasoning as to why the classes are balanced for the most part. I have no problem getting into a logically reasoned debate. That is what makes this game better. Healthy debate is always good. But when you make a generalized statement with no reasoning and then counter my argument with "blablabla i am right" you have provided no basis for listening to your side of things.
At least make a reasoned analysis for your postion. W/o that you are just QQ.
Sure i my main is a NB. BUt i PLay all classes. However, noen of that really matters when I provide a well-reasoned argument. In fact it is an objective argument not a subjective one. I do not believe that a stam NB puts out more damage and takes less and vice versa for a stam DK. That is simply a fact. Just because you may play a stamina DK and lose to stamina NB does not mean that there is an imbalance.
Again, I have no problem debating. IN fact I love it. But at least provide some sort of objective reasoning that will back up your argument. Until then you have no leg to stand on. his is the main problem with a lot of QQ threads. They make generlaized statements without giving any sound analysis. I challenge you to break this trend.
The blabla argument was given because im tired of my own thread already, nbs keep telling themselves that the game is balanced. We could have had a nice discussion you and me but as i told you i have no intentions to keep arguing against a Nb defender. Nerf will eventually come and thats it. I just wanted to know different reasons why they think the way they do but all i got was l2p scrub.
Have a nice day !
I never said L2P. Please tell me where my logic is flawed? As far as defending NB...I am not. I am giving objective reasons as to why it is balanced. what is wrong with my argument? where is it flawed? give me some analysis. Hell if you dont want to repeat yourself, tell me where you have wrote your arguments. what number are the comments? I am trying to have a reasoned argument, but you are not helping that. You simply lump me into a category of people that dont know what they are talking about, yet I have shown based on my reasoning that I do know what I am talking about. Hell, after 2200 hours I think I have knowledge about this game. But you are giving me nothing. How am I supposed to see your side of things if you wont tell me why you think the way you think? How are you ever going to get your position heard if you can not articulate it? You are just as bad as the NB players who say l2p w/o any analysis as to why they think the way they do. You have fallen into the same category of players which you seem to despise.
Well, dont feel bad, he also lumped my argument with the standard "nightblade l2p" even though it did not refer to nightblade being op or not in the slightest. But hey, he also didnt seem to realize that i was talking about the nerf mentality and not necessarily the topic at hand...This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!1 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭SemiD4rkness wrote: »Cherryblossom wrote: »How can you say one class is op over another, it depends on what you want the class to do!
If you want someone to heal, I would say Templar is OP.
If you want someone to take it to the face, then DK is OP
If you want someone to Burst DPS then Sorc is OP
If you want someone to Gank then NB is OP
everything is situational, in PVP as a solo player I prefer to be a NB as you can sneak easier. But in a group I prefer my Templar or Sorc.
Everything comes down to play style, if my Sorc gets ganked I'm 95% sure I'll get away! If my Templar gets Ganked I hope someone rescues me before my magic runs out!
Just because you get get killed by people are really good player who know how to play their class, does not mean the class is OP. I've seen all classes played in ways I only wish I could have the skill to react like some people are able to.
There have been occassions where some classes have been OP, due to some mechanics with their class and other skills or sets, but currently I'd say there is a lot of balance. Although I hate to admit it, DK's could do with a little buff (I'm not a DK player) after the last update, they seem a little underpowered, especially considering that at one point they were really OP.
So you're saying you wouldn't buff templars?
They can heal yes (people always forget that magicka isnt the only option but im tired of pointing this out) but if the game was balanced in a 1v1 scenario the templar shouldnt die to the nightblade, but as soon as you stop spamming heals to do any kind of damage you die. So balanced!
The only thing that ever kills my magicka templar is a shield stacking sorcerer, mainly as my bread amd butter dps puncturing sweeps is bugged and doesn't apply the 140% dps buff to shields and they wear my resources down spamming frags and other abilities.
Nightblades are by far the class that kills me the least, their all or nothing, I lay down purifying and channeled focus, quick couple heals to negate all that amazing burst dps that didn't kill me, then a few sweeps plus a radiant and they're on the floor.
In fact 1v1 I can't remember the last time a nightblade killed me, hell even 2 v 1 I can hold them off, it's easy since they're so predictible.
Agreed. As a melee nb, templars are by far leaps and bounds the counter. As a magika nb using fest and range it is not as bad. It has come to the point where I always want to duel templars so I can learn how to counter them......
Hey see how I said I practice against them to get better and did not call for a nerf on templars. I would like people to understand this concept. I am not calling 9ut the person who I quoted but making a general statement.1 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »Cherryblossom wrote: »How can you say one class is op over another, it depends on what you want the class to do!
If you want someone to heal, I would say Templar is OP.
If you want someone to take it to the face, then DK is OP
If you want someone to Burst DPS then Sorc is OP
If you want someone to Gank then NB is OP
everything is situational, in PVP as a solo player I prefer to be a NB as you can sneak easier. But in a group I prefer my Templar or Sorc.
Everything comes down to play style, if my Sorc gets ganked I'm 95% sure I'll get away! If my Templar gets Ganked I hope someone rescues me before my magic runs out!
Just because you get get killed by people are really good player who know how to play their class, does not mean the class is OP. I've seen all classes played in ways I only wish I could have the skill to react like some people are able to.
There have been occassions where some classes have been OP, due to some mechanics with their class and other skills or sets, but currently I'd say there is a lot of balance. Although I hate to admit it, DK's could do with a little buff (I'm not a DK player) after the last update, they seem a little underpowered, especially considering that at one point they were really OP.
So you're saying you wouldn't buff templars?
They can heal yes (people always forget that magicka isnt the only option but im tired of pointing this out) but if the game was balanced in a 1v1 scenario the templar shouldnt die to the nightblade, but as soon as you stop spamming heals to do any kind of damage you die. So balanced!
The only thing that ever kills my magicka templar is a shield stacking sorcerer, mainly as my bread amd butter dps puncturing sweeps is bugged and doesn't apply the 140% dps buff to shields and they wear my resources down spamming frags and other abilities.
Nightblades are by far the class that kills me the least, their all or nothing, I lay down purifying and channeled focus, quick couple heals to negate all that amazing burst dps that didn't kill me, then a few sweeps plus a radiant and they're on the floor.
In fact 1v1 I can't remember the last time a nightblade killed me, hell even 2 v 1 I can hold them off, it's easy since they're so predictible.
Agreed. As a melee nb, templars are by far leaps and bounds the counter. As a magika nb using fest and range it is not as bad. It has come to the point where I always want to duel templars so I can learn how to counter them......
Hey see how I said I practice against them to get better and did not call for a nerf on templars. I would like people to understand this concept. I am not calling 9ut the person who I quoted but making a general statement.
Templars became much more relevant this patch, pvp favour more sustain now, burst used to mean 1 shot willy heros, and wearing light armor was a death sentence, giving light armor a buff means I'm no longer naked, healing and being able to counter in a fight is much more effective.
People always say templars are crap, they are by far my favorite class (I mean who doesn't enjoy using spears of light to kill people!?)
But they don't recognize how powerful they can be, in a fight 1v1 I can kill fairly quikcly, whilst being able to heal myself and sustain for a good amount of time, in a group? My heals mean 4 of us can take on 10 man groups and I can keep the entire party alive and buffed up.
Yesterday I was in the arena district, and 5 blues were inside the arena, whilst I was locked outside, I noticed a group of 3 yellows that were sneaking around inside ganking people that were dropping to low health and then stealthing again, all I had to do was cast breath of life to keep them alive and by the end of it the our guys killed the bosses and the yellows.0 -
CtrlAltDlt✭✭✭Sorcs need buffs?.. lol Im outta herePC NA - jeazzy
stamblade outnumbered pvp vol 1. youtu.be/h1ONYfpAJJ8
Stamblade outbumbered pvp vol 2. No cheese youtu.be/rN4_aRVMvWw0 -
nihonseanb14_ESO✭✭✭LOL this thread again?
Let me guess you got jumped in IC and came to the forums to demand equality and fairness?
And of course you can't be bothered to slot radiant mage light, make detect potions, or slot up an aoe. No, you demand the ability to kill other players no matter the mechanics or the skill, or lack of skill in this case, involved.
IC is all about ganking. That's all that it is. There is one class that has a dedicated vanish power so SURPRISE they're out ganking people in IC.
In regular pvp I have zero trouble with night blades. I stay with the group. Night blades are mediocre with or against groups. It's when you're off by yourself that you have trouble. Solution? Don't go wandering around by yourself, and if you do, stay stealthed.
But I'm guessing your tears are from IC. You want a class nerfed because of a poorly designed expansion that only some people are 'enjoying'?
Please tell the good people what survivability night blades have without Cloak? They don't have templar heals. They don't have DK armor or damage shields. They don't have Sorcerer Bolt Escape or Hardened Ward. They have Cloak. You complain that they spam Cloak, well guess what Einstein, THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE.
So seriously, offer up a viable solution for night blades or just quit pvp.
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