Nightblades are the only ones who think all four classes are balanced. Why?

catalyst10e

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Barlthump wrote: »

Wow this thread really.. I mean does everyone just whine about nightblade all day? Okay I'm a stam nightblade and I'm going start whining now also. I mean why not right?

For templar,

NERF BITING JABS! Why should I learn to dodge roll? I don't wanna dodge roll. It's too hard. If they can't use detect pots I don't wanna dodge roll

For sorc,

STREAK SHOULDN'T STUN. Why should I waste stam to break free. I don't wanna break free. I want to QQ spam and sprint all day.

For DK,

Buff them. They really need help.

And NERF SHIELDS, I WANNA CRIT SHIELDS WHY SHOULD I WAIT TILL THE SHIELD RUNS OUT? WHY WHY WHY?

OKAY I'M DONE WHINING OR I COULD L2P BUT WHY SHOULD I? PEOPLE AIN'T DOING IT

Im aware this is sarcasm, but really... Dodge rolls and break free are natural parts of the game, I'm willing to bet if you had to use one of your precious ability slots just to roll or break free the sarcasm would drain from this point.

To be serious here, Do you nightblades have a slot just to counter a specific class? I've read though character builds but have yet to come across anything that said "use x ability IF you encounter (insert class)" but all the other classes have to use a slot specifically for a single class.

I am a nb and I use
- Radiant magelight AND detect pots AND sap to counter other nb cloak
- Cloak to counter templar jesus beams and dots
- Lotus fan AND cripple to counter sorc streak/bol
- Fear AND Shadow Image to counter jab spaming temps and perma-blocking/talon spaming dks

Therefore the answer to your question is, yes.
Yes I and every other decent nb do slot skills to counter specific classes.

I was honestly expecting to be bombarded with more sarcastic responses, so thank you for avoiding that part, truly.

If you're using RML, AND detect pots AND sap just for NB isnt that a little excessive? Do you really not see an issue with having to have that much counter?
Cloak isnt not JUST an anti-Templar ability tho you're not slotting that JUST for Templars like you are with RML (which to even maintain has to take up 2 of my slots) If this is true, you wouldnt EVER use cloak until a Templar arrives on the field.
Lotus Fan/fear are the same, they're not specifically on there to deal with Sorcs who bolt away or templars who permablock. They're useful in the situation, but they aren't there JUST to deal with templars.That'd be like me saying I slot Crystal frags just to stop Templars from self healing.

Bogdan_Kobzar

...

Shunravi

catalyst10e wrote: »

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Barlthump wrote: »

Wow this thread really.. I mean does everyone just whine about nightblade all day? Okay I'm a stam nightblade and I'm going start whining now also. I mean why not right?

For templar,

NERF BITING JABS! Why should I learn to dodge roll? I don't wanna dodge roll. It's too hard. If they can't use detect pots I don't wanna dodge roll

For sorc,

STREAK SHOULDN'T STUN. Why should I waste stam to break free. I don't wanna break free. I want to QQ spam and sprint all day.

For DK,

Buff them. They really need help.

And NERF SHIELDS, I WANNA CRIT SHIELDS WHY SHOULD I WAIT TILL THE SHIELD RUNS OUT? WHY WHY WHY?

OKAY I'M DONE WHINING OR I COULD L2P BUT WHY SHOULD I? PEOPLE AIN'T DOING IT

Im aware this is sarcasm, but really... Dodge rolls and break free are natural parts of the game, I'm willing to bet if you had to use one of your precious ability slots just to roll or break free the sarcasm would drain from this point.

To be serious here, Do you nightblades have a slot just to counter a specific class? I've read though character builds but have yet to come across anything that said "use x ability IF you encounter (insert class)" but all the other classes have to use a slot specifically for a single class.

I am a nb and I use
- Radiant magelight AND detect pots AND sap to counter other nb cloak
- Cloak to counter templar jesus beams and dots
- Lotus fan AND cripple to counter sorc streak/bol
- Fear AND Shadow Image to counter jab spaming temps and perma-blocking/talon spaming dks

Therefore the answer to your question is, yes.
Yes I and every other decent nb do slot skills to counter specific classes.

I was honestly expecting to be bombarded with more sarcastic responses, so thank you for avoiding that part, truly.

If you're using RML, AND detect pots AND sap just for NB isnt that a little excessive? Do you really not see an issue with having to have that much counter?
Cloak isnt not JUST an anti-Templar ability tho you're not slotting that JUST for Templars like you are with RML (which to even maintain has to take up 2 of my slots) If this is true, you wouldnt EVER use cloak until a Templar arrives on the field.
Lotus Fan/fear are the same, they're not specifically on there to deal with Sorcs who bolt away or templars who permablock. They're useful in the situation, but they aren't there JUST to deal with templars. there That'd be like me saying I slot Crystal frags just to stop Templars from self healing.

Well, nightblades arent the only class that can sneak either. Stealth, yes, to an extent. They have the only spammable stealth option. But ive had rml help turn the tables in non nightblade sneak plays as well

Infinite12

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Malmai wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

As a templar i can honestly say that from my point of view Dk, Templar and Sorc (this last one at a smaller degree) need some kind of buff when compared to Nightblades.

Everytime a read a ''buff x class'' the only ones telling people left and right to L2p are nightblades, also pointing out all classes strenghts and forgotting about the bigger weaknesses. Also everytime i see a ''nerf x nightblade skill'' the same people tell everyone how the class is super balanced and even weak and blablabla L2p crap, sometimes they make me actually believe that nbs need some serious buffs.
I wanted to make a poll asking if people think Nb are op but is kinda pointless since they're the most popular class by far (no wonder why)

But if in a game of four classes only one is ''balanced' isnt it better to just nerf it until it is as underpowered as the others then the game would be finally balanced.

Im talking strictly from a PvP point of view, i feel like in pve all classes can do well in almost all roles.

Discuss.

Only op class is magicka sorc.

Arent magicka sorcs crying because of Shield Breaker set and how they cant do anything against it?

That's their ONLY kryptonite and they complain about it. I've participated in these giant 1v1's that the alliances all hold together, and there was a sorc who was unbeatable. Encase, mines, magicka det, shield stack. Rinse and repeat. He refused to fight anyone with the shield breaker set. And you try to tell me that sorc aren't OP lol

Cathexis

I think the reality of the game right now is that any class can be pushed to OP status through CP and so debating it is fundamentally pointless.

That said, cloak spam OP.

Hammy01

In my opinion it is hard to call for nerfs for any class due to the fact that CP and gear may be a large part of the problem. I have been absolutely destroyed multiple times in PVP. Usually from someone in stealth catching me off guard with very little time to react before I am dead. Is this a l2p problem.. maybe, is this a skill is to powerful problem... maybe, or maybe this is because the person that killed me is a vet 16 and has a ton of CP and the best gear available, while I am at vet 3, rank 1 purple gear with very little CP (maybe around 24).

Maybe we should just spend a week running around naked with no CP and then decide what skills are OP and what skills need some help!!

WreckfulAbandon

Infinite12 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Malmai wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

As a templar i can honestly say that from my point of view Dk, Templar and Sorc (this last one at a smaller degree) need some kind of buff when compared to Nightblades.

Everytime a read a ''buff x class'' the only ones telling people left and right to L2p are nightblades, also pointing out all classes strenghts and forgotting about the bigger weaknesses. Also everytime i see a ''nerf x nightblade skill'' the same people tell everyone how the class is super balanced and even weak and blablabla L2p crap, sometimes they make me actually believe that nbs need some serious buffs.
I wanted to make a poll asking if people think Nb are op but is kinda pointless since they're the most popular class by far (no wonder why)

But if in a game of four classes only one is ''balanced' isnt it better to just nerf it until it is as underpowered as the others then the game would be finally balanced.

Im talking strictly from a PvP point of view, i feel like in pve all classes can do well in almost all roles.

Discuss.

Only op class is magicka sorc.

Arent magicka sorcs crying because of Shield Breaker set and how they cant do anything against it?

That's their ONLY kryptonite and they complain about it. I've participated in these giant 1v1's that the alliances all hold together, and there was a sorc who was unbeatable. Encase, mines, magicka det, shield stack. Rinse and repeat. He refused to fight anyone with the shield breaker set. And you try to tell me that sorc aren't OP lol

Infinite12 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Malmai wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

As a templar i can honestly say that from my point of view Dk, Templar and Sorc (this last one at a smaller degree) need some kind of buff when compared to Nightblades.

Everytime a read a ''buff x class'' the only ones telling people left and right to L2p are nightblades, also pointing out all classes strenghts and forgotting about the bigger weaknesses. Also everytime i see a ''nerf x nightblade skill'' the same people tell everyone how the class is super balanced and even weak and blablabla L2p crap, sometimes they make me actually believe that nbs need some serious buffs.
I wanted to make a poll asking if people think Nb are op but is kinda pointless since they're the most popular class by far (no wonder why)

But if in a game of four classes only one is ''balanced' isnt it better to just nerf it until it is as underpowered as the others then the game would be finally balanced.

Im talking strictly from a PvP point of view, i feel like in pve all classes can do well in almost all roles.

Discuss.

Only op class is magicka sorc.

Arent magicka sorcs crying because of Shield Breaker set and how they cant do anything against it?

That's their ONLY kryptonite and they complain about it. I've participated in these giant 1v1's that the alliances all hold together, and there was a sorc who was unbeatable. Encase, mines, magicka det, shield stack. Rinse and repeat. He refused to fight anyone with the shield breaker set. And you try to tell me that sorc aren't OP lol

It definitely isn't their only kryptonite, a well played stamina build can trash a good magicka sorc without SB set. Even so, magicka sorcs have a variety of defenses and survival options that do not make the stamina user's victory guaranteed.

What defenses do Nightblades have other than cloak? Shadow Image which is pathetically predictable which you can easily throw caltrops on? Come to think of it, if you aren't a terrible player you can easily counter cloak with caltrops as well. Steel Tornado with it's ridiculous range will make it tough for a NB to cloak away from you if you're on your game. NB's are the squishiest class, their survival options will be laughable compared to a sorc's if cloak is nerfed.

And if you're a sorc complaining about magblades, listen up. You have Harness Magicka and Hardened Ward (and Healing Ward) and can easily shrug off their damage if they use destruction staff. If they are a melee magblade, stand in your mines, streak when they run into mines, rinse and repeat, watch them either stand there and die or run out of stam rolling out of the immobilize. Since the whole time they are trying to close the gap you will be lighting them up with layered sorc burst. Either that or they cloak away, and you will have to accept that sometimes ppl can escape from you.

catalyst10e

Tannakaobi wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

To be serious here, Do you nightblades have a slot just to counter a specific class? I've read though character builds but have yet to come across anything that said "use x ability IF you encounter (insert class)" but all the other classes have to use a slot specifically for a single class.

This is a joke right?

It's called cloak! It's our only defense against every class! That's why every Nightblade is against it being nerfed. We will quite literally be defenseless when it gets nerfed.

You have access to healing ward, harness magicka, and Immovable Brute it's not your ONLY defense option. Also if this was a defense, why do I only ever see it used offensively? It's only a defense when its the only thing slotted for you when you try to hide, but once you're hidden you don't simply run away from the fight, you just come back in with another ambush/fear combo.

WreckfulAbandon

catalyst10e wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

To be serious here, Do you nightblades have a slot just to counter a specific class? I've read though character builds but have yet to come across anything that said "use x ability IF you encounter (insert class)" but all the other classes have to use a slot specifically for a single class.

This is a joke right?

It's called cloak! It's our only defense against every class! That's why every Nightblade is against it being nerfed. We will quite literally be defenseless when it gets nerfed.

You have access to healing ward, harness magicka, and Immovable Brute it's not your ONLY defense option. Also if this was a defense, why do I only ever see it used offensively? It's only a defense when its the only thing slotted for you when you try to hide, but once you're hidden you don't simply run away from the fight, you just come back in with another ambush/fear combo.

Everyone has access to those defensive options, name a defensive class ability that NB's have other than cloak. Why do I usually only see streak used offensively? It's a morph of bolt escape, I can't believe ppl would use it offensively, nerf again!!!

Revenge!!!

Ara_Valleria

-

catalyst10e

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

To be serious here, Do you nightblades have a slot just to counter a specific class? I've read though character builds but have yet to come across anything that said "use x ability IF you encounter (insert class)" but all the other classes have to use a slot specifically for a single class.

This is a joke right?

It's called cloak! It's our only defense against every class! That's why every Nightblade is against it being nerfed. We will quite literally be defenseless when it gets nerfed.

You have access to healing ward, harness magicka, and Immovable Brute it's not your ONLY defense option. Also if this was a defense, why do I only ever see it used offensively? It's only a defense when its the only thing slotted for you when you try to hide, but once you're hidden you don't simply run away from the fight, you just come back in with another ambush/fear combo.

Everyone has access to those defensive options, name a defensive class ability that NB's have other than cloak. Why do I usually only see streak used offensively? It's a morph of bolt escape, I can't believe ppl would use it offensively, nerf again!!!

Revenge!!!

I dunno why you're getting sarcastic or flippant with me, I'm trying to have a discussion. You admit you have access to defenses but you want specific NB defenses? I don't get that.... You can't say you have none, admit theres ones for everyone, and then go back to claiming you have none other than cloak. Also, I never mentioned anything about bolt escape, so I dunno where that's coming from. If I had said bolt escape was the only option a sorc has for defense you'd have a valid point.

WreckfulAbandon

catalyst10e wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

To be serious here, Do you nightblades have a slot just to counter a specific class? I've read though character builds but have yet to come across anything that said "use x ability IF you encounter (insert class)" but all the other classes have to use a slot specifically for a single class.

This is a joke right?

It's called cloak! It's our only defense against every class! That's why every Nightblade is against it being nerfed. We will quite literally be defenseless when it gets nerfed.

You have access to healing ward, harness magicka, and Immovable Brute it's not your ONLY defense option. Also if this was a defense, why do I only ever see it used offensively? It's only a defense when its the only thing slotted for you when you try to hide, but once you're hidden you don't simply run away from the fight, you just come back in with another ambush/fear combo.

Everyone has access to those defensive options, name a defensive class ability that NB's have other than cloak. Why do I usually only see streak used offensively? It's a morph of bolt escape, I can't believe ppl would use it offensively, nerf again!!!

Revenge!!!

I dunno why you're getting sarcastic or flippant with me, I'm trying to have a discussion. You admit you have access to defenses but you want specific NB defenses? I don't get that.... You can't say you have none, admit theres ones for everyone, and then go back to claiming you have none other than cloak. Also, I never mentioned anything about bolt escape, so I dunno where that's coming from. If I had said bolt escape was the only option a sorc has for defense you'd have a valid point.

I said class options for defense, not general defensive skills. If you're new to this discussion, I'm sorry, but ppl have been beating this dead horse since IC came out and some ppl will not stop until NB's only defensive class skill is nerfed.

My comment about bolt escape was in response to you observing that cloak can be and is used offensively. If a skill has utility, then utilize it. I for one would like for the last couple of nerfs to bolt escape be reverted, but it is still usuable for the most part and sorcs have other defensive class options then can use, as well as the general defensive skills everyone can use.

catalyst10e

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

To be serious here, Do you nightblades have a slot just to counter a specific class? I've read though character builds but have yet to come across anything that said "use x ability IF you encounter (insert class)" but all the other classes have to use a slot specifically for a single class.

This is a joke right?

It's called cloak! It's our only defense against every class! That's why every Nightblade is against it being nerfed. We will quite literally be defenseless when it gets nerfed.

You have access to healing ward, harness magicka, and Immovable Brute it's not your ONLY defense option. Also if this was a defense, why do I only ever see it used offensively? It's only a defense when its the only thing slotted for you when you try to hide, but once you're hidden you don't simply run away from the fight, you just come back in with another ambush/fear combo.

Everyone has access to those defensive options, name a defensive class ability that NB's have other than cloak. Why do I usually only see streak used offensively? It's a morph of bolt escape, I can't believe ppl would use it offensively, nerf again!!!

Revenge!!!

I dunno why you're getting sarcastic or flippant with me, I'm trying to have a discussion. You admit you have access to defenses but you want specific NB defenses? I don't get that.... You can't say you have none, admit theres ones for everyone, and then go back to claiming you have none other than cloak. Also, I never mentioned anything about bolt escape, so I dunno where that's coming from. If I had said bolt escape was the only option a sorc has for defense you'd have a valid point.

I said class options for defense, not general defensive skills. If you're new to this discussion, I'm sorry, but ppl have been beating this dead horse since IC came out and some ppl will not stop until NB's only defensive class skill is nerfed.

My comment about bolt escape was in response to you observing that cloak can be and is used offensively. If a skill has utility, then utilize it. I for one would like for the last couple of nerfs to bolt escape be reverted, but it is still usuable for the most part and sorcs have other defensive class options then can use, as well as the general defensive skills everyone can use.

I get tired of seeing "it's the only defense" when other options are readily available. I'd prefer if cloak was buffed more, but its draw back just be not total 100% invisibility. Give it 100% immunity, remove DOTs, and increase movement speed, make it last maybe 2 seconds longer, maybe make it easier to activate stealth during combat, but just lose the total loss of sight and magicka regen. That total loss is what makes it so OP and what typically is the real underlining issue a lot of the players who call for a nerf actually mean.

TheNephilimCrow

nihonseanb14_ESO wrote: »

LOL this thread again?

Let me guess you got jumped in IC and came to the forums to demand equality and fairness?

And of course you can't be bothered to slot radiant mage light, make detect potions, or slot up an aoe. No, you demand the ability to kill other players no matter the mechanics or the skill, or lack of skill in this case, involved.

IC is all about ganking. That's all that it is. There is one class that has a dedicated vanish power so SURPRISE they're out ganking people in IC.

In regular pvp I have zero trouble with night blades. I stay with the group. Night blades are mediocre with or against groups. It's when you're off by yourself that you have trouble. Solution? Don't go wandering around by yourself, and if you do, stay stealthed.

But I'm guessing your tears are from IC. You want a class nerfed because of a poorly designed expansion that only some people are 'enjoying'?

Please tell the good people what survivability night blades have without Cloak? They don't have templar heals. They don't have DK armor or damage shields. They don't have Sorcerer Bolt Escape or Hardened Ward. They have Cloak. You complain that they spam Cloak, well guess what Einstein, THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE.

So seriously, offer up a viable solution for night blades or just quit pvp.

Couldn't say it better myself.

Ara_Valleria

catalyst10e wrote: »

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Barlthump wrote: »

Wow this thread really.. I mean does everyone just whine about nightblade all day? Okay I'm a stam nightblade and I'm going start whining now also. I mean why not right?

For templar,

NERF BITING JABS! Why should I learn to dodge roll? I don't wanna dodge roll. It's too hard. If they can't use detect pots I don't wanna dodge roll

For sorc,

STREAK SHOULDN'T STUN. Why should I waste stam to break free. I don't wanna break free. I want to QQ spam and sprint all day.

For DK,

Buff them. They really need help.

And NERF SHIELDS, I WANNA CRIT SHIELDS WHY SHOULD I WAIT TILL THE SHIELD RUNS OUT? WHY WHY WHY?

OKAY I'M DONE WHINING OR I COULD L2P BUT WHY SHOULD I? PEOPLE AIN'T DOING IT

Im aware this is sarcasm, but really... Dodge rolls and break free are natural parts of the game, I'm willing to bet if you had to use one of your precious ability slots just to roll or break free the sarcasm would drain from this point.

To be serious here, Do you nightblades have a slot just to counter a specific class? I've read though character builds but have yet to come across anything that said "use x ability IF you encounter (insert class)" but all the other classes have to use a slot specifically for a single class.

I am a nb and I use
- Radiant magelight AND detect pots AND sap to counter other nb cloak
- Cloak to counter templar jesus beams and dots
- Lotus fan AND cripple to counter sorc streak/bol
- Fear AND Shadow Image to counter jab spaming temps and perma-blocking/talon spaming dks

Therefore the answer to your question is, yes.
Yes I and every other decent nb do slot skills to counter specific classes.

I was honestly expecting to be bombarded with more sarcastic responses, so thank you for avoiding that part, truly.

If you're using RML, AND detect pots AND sap just for NB isnt that a little excessive? Do you really not see an issue with having to have that much counter?
Cloak isnt not JUST an anti-Templar ability tho you're not slotting that JUST for Templars like you are with RML (which to even maintain has to take up 2 of my slots) If this is true, you wouldnt EVER use cloak until a Templar arrives on the field.
Lotus Fan/fear are the same, they're not specifically on there to deal with Sorcs who bolt away or templars who permablock. They're useful in the situation, but they aren't there JUST to deal with templars.That'd be like me saying I slot Crystal frags just to stop Templars from self healing.

Firstly, I Primarily counter cloak just with dectect pots. They are 100% efficient in negating the effects of cloak. I dont even need radiant magelight or sap.

Then why do I use RML or Sap ?
- The main reason I use RML is to reduce damage from sneaking targets since I run a low health build [eg: being sniped from stealth.] Else i'll be getting 1 shot by skilled gankers left and right.
- I use sap mainly for damage buff but also if I am facing multiple enemies.
It just so happens that RML and sap also counter cloak but in NOWAY is my 1st line of counter for nbs and therefore is not at all necessary to use to counter cloak on top of using detect pots.

- Lotus Fan is my ONLY counter to a streaking sorc. I have no other gap closer since i am a magica nb. So yes my lotus fans primary purpose is to counter sorcs. Its secondary purpose is to break stealth/cloak of targets going into sneak.
- Fear is my ONLY counter to talons spamming dks and jab spamming templars. I cant roll dodge more than twice so I will be rooted and whiped/jabed to death if I dont use fear.
And All the above mentioned skills counter cloak. Essentially all the skills that I use to counter other classes/situations just happens to be effective means to counter cloak even though I had no intention of sloting them to counter cloak in the 1st place !! Just think about that for a minute.

Every skill has a primary purpose and a secondary purpose. No one skill is made JUST to deal with a certain other skill or situation.

So in a nutshell, you dont have to use MULTIPLE skills to counter cloak. And no, I don't have RML slotted JUST to deal with NBs.
You can just use one of the many available skills to completely negate the primary defence of the entire NB class.

WreckfulAbandon

catalyst10e wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

To be serious here, Do you nightblades have a slot just to counter a specific class? I've read though character builds but have yet to come across anything that said "use x ability IF you encounter (insert class)" but all the other classes have to use a slot specifically for a single class.

This is a joke right?

It's called cloak! It's our only defense against every class! That's why every Nightblade is against it being nerfed. We will quite literally be defenseless when it gets nerfed.

You have access to healing ward, harness magicka, and Immovable Brute it's not your ONLY defense option. Also if this was a defense, why do I only ever see it used offensively? It's only a defense when its the only thing slotted for you when you try to hide, but once you're hidden you don't simply run away from the fight, you just come back in with another ambush/fear combo.

Everyone has access to those defensive options, name a defensive class ability that NB's have other than cloak. Why do I usually only see streak used offensively? It's a morph of bolt escape, I can't believe ppl would use it offensively, nerf again!!!

Revenge!!!

I dunno why you're getting sarcastic or flippant with me, I'm trying to have a discussion. You admit you have access to defenses but you want specific NB defenses? I don't get that.... You can't say you have none, admit theres ones for everyone, and then go back to claiming you have none other than cloak. Also, I never mentioned anything about bolt escape, so I dunno where that's coming from. If I had said bolt escape was the only option a sorc has for defense you'd have a valid point.

I said class options for defense, not general defensive skills. If you're new to this discussion, I'm sorry, but ppl have been beating this dead horse since IC came out and some ppl will not stop until NB's only defensive class skill is nerfed.

My comment about bolt escape was in response to you observing that cloak can be and is used offensively. If a skill has utility, then utilize it. I for one would like for the last couple of nerfs to bolt escape be reverted, but it is still usuable for the most part and sorcs have other defensive class options then can use, as well as the general defensive skills everyone can use.

I get tired of seeing "it's the only defense" when other options are readily available. I'd prefer if cloak was buffed more, but its draw back just be not total 100% invisibility. Give it 100% immunity, remove DOTs, and increase movement speed, make it last maybe 2 seconds longer, maybe make it easier to activate stealth during combat, but just lose the total loss of sight and magicka regen. That total loss is what makes it so OP and what typically is the real underlining issue a lot of the players who call for a nerf actually mean.

I'm glad you're thinking outside the box here but what you're suggesting IMO would make Cloak OP. 2 extra seconds with buffed movement speed and 100% immunity would make any decent NB be able to escape any situation easily, it would be the best escape in the game bar none. The way cloak is now it still takes positioning and skill to escape from an encounter, and it's easy for your attempt to flee/reposition to be thwarted by some of the counters available to ppl (even simple AoEs).

I think the "problems" ppl have with cloak are blown out of proportion. If it's a stamblade, sure they can hit hard, but they can hardly permacloak. If it's a magblade, they might be able to cloak all day, but they don't get a stealth attack bonus (other than concealed) and they are using their primary dps resource to stay cloaked. Not to mention, their burst is more easily mitigated thru Harness/CP passives.

Cody

People need to stop blaming classes for a mechanic wide issue. It is not the sorcerers fault that damage shield stacking can reach ridiculous levels, that is the fault of the mechanic itself. Yes sorcs do it better, but its not their fault that one can literally stack shields to a 2nd or even 3rd bar of health.

it is not the NBs fault that CC has issues; NBs just conveniently have one of the best CCs in the game; Fear. It is not Fears fault that the CC system has issues, it's the CC system itself.

It was not the DKs fault that magicka builds were OP before 1.6(though I will admit it did make DKs ridiculous at times. lol. I still remember seeing one DK emp soloing an entire raid multiple times:D) it was the fact that every class based ability scaled off of magicka, preventing stamina users from taking effective advantage of many fantastic class based abilities, making them underpowered.

For those of you that did not read my post because I am a NB, here is the TL:DR version: we need to stop blaming X class for Y issue and look at the game and mechanics as a whole. I will admit I have been guilty of doing the exact opposite at times, pretty much everyone on here has at some point; but we need to try to see the entire picture.

Cody

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

terrasight wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

You're right too, i should l2p.
Have a nice day with your balanced Nbs. And hey ,they should buff your weak cloak.

Have a nice day.

As a stamblade i can only cloak 3-4 time before my magicka runs out... thats a very short time.

So you ppl have an issue with permacloaks...then it's MagickaNB...

Youve got regen, all you need to do is to get away, get resources back up and try again.
And please dont make me a list with a bunch of useless skills that may or MAY NOT reveal cloaked nbs.

You seem like a nice guy, i respect that youre a nightblade that havent told me to l2p.

"you've got regen" Most players that have low magicka tend to have very low magicka regen:/

Cody

eliisra wrote: »

Well, it doesn't matter if a class can oneshot entire raids in PvP, the one's playing it will always use a l2p argument.

The current Nightblade infestation is funny tho. Because unlike earlier fotm, they aren't that easy to play.

Old school 1vX DK, magicka sorcs and stam builds(abusing 100% armor pen) in 1.6. This was fairly easy to face-roll with for average players, that needed to compensate.

But Nightblades are squishy, requires timing on skills and situational awareness. Most guys playing Nightblade, doesn't have it, especially those that re-rolled cuz cloak OP.

So it gets really polarized in PvP. You have some broken ass NB's, good players that knows the class. Impossible to kill, hits like trucks and trolls everyone around them. They cause the QQ on the forum, nerf pls, guild chat rage and the like.

Than you have even more mediocre Nightblades, that's free AP and fill your "Kill Enemy Nightblades" in less than a minute. The ones that sort of just stands there with a bow and blocks, while pressing cloak in the middle of AoE.

This is why so many NB's claims that "Cloak is so easy to counter" and later accuses you of l2p issues. They cant play Nightblade that well themselves. They mainly dont know how to Cloak. Which in all fairness, isn't as easy mode as people make it out to be.

thank you for speaking the truth friend:) no matter how many people will disagree with you, what you have said is the truth. I took on many NBs after a 5 month break and beat most of them.... NB OP my butt. and what did most of them do? Spam cloak and fear. I did not even put a lot of pressure on them and that was still all they did. Sithis help them If I would have been at my best.

that is not the point though. We should not be blaming one class for issues with the game itself. You guys have a problem with perma cloak? Look at resource pools and regen rates; the very thing I and others constantly preached about and were shot down and insulted over as soon as we opened our mouths. Nerfing cloak will do nothing but severely weaken the NB class. We will still have people being able to use many other magicka based abilities at a gigantic rate, and those will be what is complained about after cloak is nerfed. Biting jabs, sorc shields(though those are already complained about) Aspect of Fear, and many other magicka abilities. It will not surprise me if "nerf crushing shock!" starts poping up around here.

alright, I have ranted enough. Peace out

zornyan

Dracane wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sorcerer used to be strong in 1.6 for some months. Now now they are just average.
What made them that usefull was bolt escape, which now is a one time even and only if your enemies are braindead.
Shields, even though I thought this would not be the case, are much much weaker than before and now there is a certain class to totally bypass them easily, no skill needed.

However. Nightblades are on the throne since a long time and now they can insult everyone with their L2P quotes (so disgusting, I hope you will receive the echo soon) and when people bring up JUSTIFIED worries and complains about their OPness, they stick together and tell everyone 'Whaaaaa, Nightblade is so easy to counter ' Wha a a a a, Nightblade is soooooo squishy and weak' god, people actually believe this ?

Seems like their attempts to blind the poor developers is working, or because Eric Wrobel is a Nightblade himself. Let's just hope, that this supremacy is soon to be cut down.

Dracane back to talking about her sorc. Streak...once...really? I don't think the other sorcs got the office memo. You do realize the nerf in 1.7 does not k8ck 8n until the 3rd use. The first two Cost the same as they did 8n 1.6. Also, it forces to use efficiently. It does not make them useless. Just like dodge roll needs to be 7sed eff8ciently. Also, shields are still solid. Ya shields reduced but so was damage.plus can still stack healing ward so by t8me shield 8s gone your at full health. Dracane you cry about sorcs just as much as those nb's you talk about.

Howeber, I do agree with you about many people that defend nb. They also like to make general statements with no reasoned arguments. This is a problem through all the forums dealing with all s7bjects. Many generalized statements with no reasoned arguments. This is what the op has done. Made a general statement, no arg7ment, and disregarded well reasoned arguments altogwther. A well reasoned, logical, objective arguments 8s necessary to make a claim. A generalized grieve nice 8s not an argument. Reburting an argument with a generalized "you must be x class if you don't see it" is not a counter argument. It is admitting you have no counter argument and no leg to stand on. That argument is basically like saying because I sa8d so and that is my argument.

To all QQ people. Make an argument 9r stay silent.

I meant, it's a one time event. Like you may manage to escape once with your full Magicka bar. But only if the people chasing you are really bad.
I don't cry about Sorcs really. But they aren't as strong as they used to be. What used to make them strong is now a lot weaker. That's all I'm saying

Nightblade is next and no, this will not ruin the game as you and your friends claim. It will restore balance and then the nerf circle can finally come to an end.

Really?

I'm a fairly good pvp player, I've spent much time in IC , and sorcerers seem to bolt escape multiple times, any bad sorcerer just bolt escapes in front of you and is easy to line up a gap closer.

A good sorcerer waits till you're not cc immune, goes through you which stuns. So even if you break free by the time you've turned round their on their 3rd bolt escape in which case your out of gap closing range. And spring means your resources will be gone by the time you reach them.

The other day I noticed a sorc do this. Bolt 3 times, them ran for a couple seconds, waited for me to catch up, them just bolted twice more.

By the point of me catching him again, my stamina pool was gone. You can't chase a bolt escaping sorcerer.

ku5h

II PvP mostly with my magica NB, and i dont think its balanced at all, in fact i think magica sorc are op.
But i dont run to forum cry nerf, i just accept the fact that my build cant be good against all classes

13igTyme

"My class needs a buff and the other classes are OP" said everyone on the forums.

Elara_Northwind

Yesterday, I would have agreed that of all classes, sorcerer is most OP with all of their shields and their continuous heals from cit surge, (Nb? lol I find nb the easiest class to kill tbh, I don't find cloak to be OP at all, I see it as a survivability skill, much like sorc bolt or templar heals...) but tonight I went into Cyrodiil with my group on my little vet10 stam DK cat, and he did 18k damage on another player! You would think that this would be a good thing, but to be honest I was kind of disappointed... My main PvP character has never hit another player for 18k! It seems a little op, no? More than a cloaking NB? I thought that damage was meant to be 50% in PvP, but he does around 30-ish (sometimes a LITTLE more, 32 or so) in PvE, so how in the HELL did he hit somebody for 18k? Even his heavy attacks were doing around 12k tonight... Is that normal for stam DK??

Not used to playing stamina builds so maybe it is... idk! But even though my templar is super survivable and does some decent damage, she doesn't do 12k heavy attacks or 18k skills in PvP against other players... 15k is the max she has reached, and that was only once or twice!

usmcjdking

It's not cloak that need to be nerfed.

It's detection that needs to be BUFFED.

Barlthump

catalyst10e wrote: »

Barlthump wrote: »

Wow this thread really.. I mean does everyone just whine about nightblade all day? Okay I'm a stam nightblade and I'm going start whining now also. I mean why not right?

For templar,

NERF BITING JABS! Why should I learn to dodge roll? I don't wanna dodge roll. It's too hard. If they can't use detect pots I don't wanna dodge roll

For sorc,

STREAK SHOULDN'T STUN. Why should I waste stam to break free. I don't wanna break free. I want to QQ spam and sprint all day.

For DK,

Buff them. They really need help.

And NERF SHIELDS, I WANNA CRIT SHIELDS WHY SHOULD I WAIT TILL THE SHIELD RUNS OUT? WHY WHY WHY?

OKAY I'M DONE WHINING OR I COULD L2P BUT WHY SHOULD I? PEOPLE AIN'T DOING IT

Im aware this is sarcasm, but really... Dodge rolls and break free are natural parts of the game, I'm willing to bet if you had to use one of your precious ability slots just to roll or break free the sarcasm would drain from this point.

To be serious here, Do you nightblades have a slot just to counter a specific class? I've read though character builds but have yet to come across anything that said "use x ability IF you encounter (insert class)" but all the other classes have to use a slot specifically for a single class.

Yes I do I'm using fear, cloak, hell I'm even considering using summon shade to look for another viable escape cause cloak is so easily countered. So please don't tell me that we nightblades don't have it tough cause I have people telling me that they eat nightblades for breakfast

DannyLV702

terrasight wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

You're right too, i should l2p.
Have a nice day with your balanced Nbs. And hey ,they should buff your weak cloak.

Have a nice day.

As a stamblade i can only cloak 3-4 time before my magicka runs out... thats a very short time.

So you ppl have an issue with permacloaks...then it's MagickaNB...

Guess what? You're a STAMINA Nightblade.

Yonkit

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

How can you say one class is op over another, it depends on what you want the class to do!

If you want someone to heal, I would say Templar is OP.

If you want someone to take it to the face, then DK is OP

If you want someone to Burst DPS then Sorc is OP

If you want someone to Gank then NB is OP

everything is situational, in PVP as a solo player I prefer to be a NB as you can sneak easier. But in a group I prefer my Templar or Sorc.

Everything comes down to play style, if my Sorc gets ganked I'm 95% sure I'll get away! If my Templar gets Ganked I hope someone rescues me before my magic runs out!

Just because you get get killed by people are really good player who know how to play their class, does not mean the class is OP. I've seen all classes played in ways I only wish I could have the skill to react like some people are able to.

There have been occassions where some classes have been OP, due to some mechanics with their class and other skills or sets, but currently I'd say there is a lot of balance. Although I hate to admit it, DK's could do with a little buff (I'm not a DK player) after the last update, they seem a little underpowered, especially considering that at one point they were really OP.

So you're saying you wouldn't buff templars?
They can heal yes (people always forget that magicka isnt the only option but im tired of pointing this out) but if the game was balanced in a 1v1 scenario the templar shouldnt die to the nightblade, but as soon as you stop spamming heals to do any kind of damage you die. So balanced!

So finally I got my templar to v16, but i'm still pretty new to the class and so probably not the best yet, but some of my favorite NB opponents have been trying to gank me these past two days, and what have I done? Healed, buffed, purged, and jabjabjabjjabjabjabjajbjab until they die. I took a situation that was completely advantageous to them, turned it around, and won the fight against decent players. I'm satisfied. Templar can hold its own against good players.

What's this nonsense of "a templar shouldn't die 1v1 to a nb"? Of course you should die if they catch you off guard or use tactically sound positioning to get you, and likewise a nb should die if they get caught off guard and whatnot. On my nb, and I'm a good nb, I've died to temps because they do have skills that counter the nb and can be used very effectively, so you can't sit around and say "this class shouldn't get killed in a 1v1 scenario." It's just bad logic.

Shunravi

DannyLV702 wrote: »

terrasight wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

You're right too, i should l2p.
Have a nice day with your balanced Nbs. And hey ,they should buff your weak cloak.

Have a nice day.

As a stamblade i can only cloak 3-4 time before my magicka runs out... thats a very short time.

So you ppl have an issue with permacloaks...then it's MagickaNB...

Guess what? You're a STAMINA Nightblade.

Duh?

Guambodian

Whining and crying for nerfs is OP. It works against every class and skill that ever shows any kind of usefulness against any other class and/or skill. Especially if said class and/or skill isn't "your" class and/or skill and it works against "your" class/skill. The truth is, a vast majority of whiners' complaints stem from their inability to just stand there and spam an ability/skill and just melt every other player that gets in their way. If anything forces them to think and find a more creative approach than press button x times until enemy is dead, they cry OP and beg for nerfs. This is also why many answer with "L2P", because they see the problem isn't any particular OPness, but more the whiners' lack of willingness to change to a more creative approach.

tennant94

magic sorc still beats nb in my opinion