Console players how do you feel about having no txt chat?

PinoZino

RatedChaotic wrote: »

Then people would just stand there and play music. Americans would just walk by. lol

Definitely don't believe what people predict they may do in the future.

http://www.nngroup.com/articles/first-rule-of-usability-dont-listen-to-users/

I would even add:

Definitely don't believe what people predict others may do in the future.

danno8

PinoZino wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Statistically your poll can work if you don't mind a CI of around 12%. Which given 50% voted yes, that means worst case scenario 38% voted yes. That's still a fair number of people who have a keyboard they can use with their console.

In regards to polls on the forums being biased, yes they are. But I don't believe you explained that in your poll. And of course if the bias is expected to affect results so strongly as to invalidate any outcome....why do the poll at all?

Because it can be fun. That's their only valid purpose here.
But if you want to use biased polls for serious matters, feel free.

And no your explanation is wrong. There are just not enough samples. The risk that the current result is just coincidence is too high. If you have enough participants, the fool answers get drown in the poll ocean.

You can only accept a small poll audience, when your actual target audience is small too.

But ok, you have always people who believe when you throw 3 times a ‘seven’ with dices, that you will get it a fourth time. And they are 100% sure.

I used a 95% confidence level. That's an excellent chance of the results NOT occurring by chance alone. Albeit the actual numbers will have a larger variance due to the CI being at a rather high 12%. So the numbers will have a range (50%+/- 12% for the "Yes" option for example) but we are 95% confident of that entire range not occurring by chance alone.

The problem is you did not preface your poll as being "just for fun" so it appears as though you are using it as an excuse after the fact. Maybe that is not the case, but the appearance is there.

Uberkull

PinoZino wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

Let me ask you this...I assume you are also in 4 other guilds. As a GM myself of a day one trade guild on console, I recently looked across ALL the Voice chat guild channels I'm in and there was not a single person in a single channel across 5 guilds, 2400+ people. Not a single person using Guild voice chat.

Voice chat in a MMO is situational, it's used for more difficult dungeons and raids. It fails as the global communication tool for a MMO. The only proven tool that has worked for every MMO is text chat.

I don't use VoiceChat. So I don't check.
"The only proven tool that has worked for every MMO is text chat."

Maybe that was the reason why the Aztecs used no wheels for transportation?

There are not much successful MMO's on the consoles with a long during life expectancy.

So you can't suggest there's only 1 solution.

Console <> PC. On a Console gamepad is king. Context, uberkill, context. Very important.

I gave you context on Gamepad Pino. You blew right over it...and ignored it. Please quote it and respond to it, not this. LINK

PinoZino

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Shall we remind you that YOU created that poll, Pino ? You don't use the results because they don't suit your argumentation but you would certainly use them if they did.
So if I were you I'd keep a rather low profile about that poll... (but I'm not you, fortunately).

Now can we please go back to the concept of communication for ESO on consoles please ?

Sure, you may remind me. And that's nothing more as speculation on your part.

All we know is, that I demonstrated why any poll here is biased. And that I didn't use the poll as evidence.

So no low profile for me. lol

While the poll is fun, I prefer to go on with solving the communication issues.

Let's re-throw another brick in the water:
Why is there no in-game list of Guilds feature?

With some basic info:

• Name of the guild
• Guild Master
• Member size
• Kill amounts
• Sales figures
• Guild Trader or not?
• Type
• Ruling style
• ...

And a fast 'Request invite' gizmo?

I hear really often that players have difficulties to find a guild.

The above will not solve everything, but many issues. You can do more easily a preselection and Invite spamming would probably decrease.

RatedChaotic

RatedChaotic wrote: »

PinoZino wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Two more things that you seem to not understand, @PinoZino :

- Noone here cares if you like me or not, or if you'd like me or not IRL, or vice-versa.
- Everybody here knows more means of communication are needed for ESO on consoles.

Now back to topic :

You seemed to have come up with the beginning of a suggestion/concept, which involved some sort of auto-complete or pre-made sentences for gamepad text entry.
Thing is, something like that is already in the game (quickchat wheel), but it doesn't fulfill the needs because it appears only in bubbles, which means that they disappear quickly (unlike chatbox) and it serves no purpose when it comes to zone chat needs or multiple channels communication (unlike chatbox).
Maybe you could refine your concept according to those needs ?

It shouldn't appear in disappearing bubbles. It should be saved permanently.

The bubbles don't work, because sometimes you can't or you are not prepared to answer immediately.

It should be stored permanently. A bit like your iPhone or smartphone is storing your SMS messages.

Even if you go offline, later you can jump in the conversation again if you like.

I didn't found a solution for Zone Chat yet. At least not a complete one. The text transfer could also work with predefined sets, but only if there's some structure in the Zone Chat and when people are chatting about the same things.

Probably it is, but only ZOS knows the answer.

The missing part is "How do you broadcast your message with a larger audience"?

Maybe they should emulate more IRL and less other MMO's?

In real life there's no Zone Chat as well. If you want to get heard, you have to stick out in some way.

You know Speakers' Corner in Hyde Park (London)?



The speakers usually stands on a kind of soapbox. Everyone nearby can listen to what they have to say.

Why not having such a similar system in ESO? We could have several soapboxes at strategic locations.

But there's probably a better solution as well. I'm aware that the soapbox solution has some disadvantages.

However, it could be also a part of the complete solution. In that case the soapbox isn't the only way to communicate with the masses, but one of the tools.

Then people would just stand there and play music.

PinoZino wrote: »

RatedChaotic wrote: »

Then people would just stand there and play music. Americans would just walk by. lol

Definitely don't believe what people predict they may do in the future.

http://www.nngroup.com/articles/first-rule-of-usability-dont-listen-to-users/

I would even add:

Definitely don't believe what people predict others may do in the future.

I'm here to play a game not stand infront of some dude talking about his issues with the world on a box. If I wanted to do that I'd watch the debates on cnn.

Come on man. Seriously. Thats the funniest thing I've ever heard. Putting a box for people to shout from in game. Lol just lol.

PinoZino

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

PinoZino wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Ohhh the Irony.

Is it? No, it isn't.

You are using a biased poll, used by only 70 voters - who should represent the entire community according you, as evidence for some claim.

Not me.

Hey, you know what? LOL

I was referring to your ego Pino, it's nothing to do with the poll... what is it you're always telling us to do again??... oh yes, learn to read.

Of course not. People can build on you.

PinoZino

Asherons_Call wrote: »

Yes I read your post. The question is why mention this soapbox idea at all if you know it's not the best solution? It's not even on the radar as a solution and falls into the nonsensical category.. Hence my joke about standing on my cat to project my voice.

We really need a sarcasm font

If we only could talk about the best solutions then we could close the entire forum.

PinoZino

danno8 wrote: »

I used a 95% confidence level. That's an excellent chance of the results NOT occurring by chance alone. Albeit the actual numbers will have a larger variance due to the CI being at a rather high 12%. So the numbers will have a range (50%+/- 12% for the "Yes" option for example) but we are 95% confident of that entire range not occurring by chance alone.

The problem is you did not preface your poll as being "just for fun" so it appears as though you are using it as an excuse after the fact. Maybe that is not the case, but the appearance is there.

Some people like to read in the manual of their microwave:

"Don't put your dog or cat inside the microwave".

But a serious observer - who knows a bit the basics - would know immediately that you can't get any valid results from an ESO Forum poll.

When some people still do use such a poll as evidence, that's their problem. But mucha lol for me.

But ok, lol, next poll will receive such a warning message.

RatedChaotic

Some people are getting off topic. This is about text chat not about polls.

anitajoneb17_ESO

PinoZino wrote: »

Let's re-throw another brick in the water:
Why is there no in-game list of Guilds feature?

What does this have to do with text chat ? (that's what this thread is about, remember).
Just another attempt to escape from the topic on which you know exactly what would work and what wouldn't but still have nothing viable to suggest ?

People don't have difficulties finding a guild. They have difficulties communicating with voice within their guilds and even more so OUTSIDE of their guilds / group.

Ace_of_Destiny

RatedChaotic wrote: »

Some people are getting off topic. This is about text chat not about polls.

Some people know they are talking out of their arse and will do anything to derail the entire topic/thread to feel they got a "win" when it gets closed by the Mods.

PinoZino

uberkull wrote: »

I gave you context on Gamepad Pino. You blew right over it...and ignored it. Please quote it and respond to it, not this. LINK

I already explained you a dozen times, that it isn't a good solution.
You force de facto the people to buy new hardware.

Why do you expect all people would do? Or at least a significant share?

I'm not against keypad, but first you should think about a solution for the classic gamepad.
Later you can make sure that keypad and keyboard support THAT solution.

You want to reverse it: add new hardware, build a solution for that hardware. And the ones who don't buy or use the new hardware should accept the disadvantage in silence.

And all this while gamepad players are an overwhelming majority on the consoles.

No, will never happen.

aldyftb

The gamepad has a solution, virtual keyboard. And while we agree its not perfect, its better than nothing.

Vulsahdaal

PinoZino wrote: »

Asherons_Call wrote: »

Standing on large rocks to project our voices! Thank you pino all of our problems are solved! Lmao

I could even stand on my lioness I bet I'd project much further as well. Just have to give her a bit of food to keep her still

I still don't get it why folks demand for TextChat while they really can't read well.

Probably they were not able to read the following words and sentences:

• I didn't found a solution for Zone Chat yet
• Maybe
• similar
• there's probably a better solution as well...

But zone chat is the main issue. If you are looking for a solution of how we can type personal messages to each other, what is the point? I believe this can already be done?
But, as far as not finding a new solution for zone chat, well tbh I havent found one either.. And I dont believe has anyone else here. So try to understand, this is why we call upon a solution given to us long, long ago, which was bestowed upon the pcmr by the game gods long before the first xbox console crawled upon dry land. In the ancient language of pc, it was called 'text chat'.
So is this solution outdated? Could there be a much easier, more modernized and better fitting solution out there somewhere, that no one has even thought of yet? Well, yes its possible.. But right now, and anywhere in the immediate future, it would seem this 'text chat' is the only known and time tested/proven solution that could work.
Wouldnt it be better to implement the only known solution in this case, rather than settle for no solution at all while we wait for an absolute perfect one that may never arrive? I would think so anyway..

Elsonso

Anyone else think that they should just get a room and stop courting in public?

anitajoneb17_ESO

PinoZino wrote: »

You force de facto the people to buy new hardware.
=>
No, will never happen.

Like, you know, in the early 90's, when the first MacOS and Windows came out, they "forced people to buy new hardware : a MOUSE"... which is why it never happened...

Furthermore, you simply cannot say a solution is ergonomically not viable when Microsoft is investing in it. They've certainly made more extensive and expensive scientific studies about it than you could ever do.

And last but not least, people would have THREE options for text input : on-screen keyboard, external standard keyboard, and keypad. That's plenty of options. Only one of them implies your so dreaded "device shifting".

Ace_of_Destiny

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

PinoZino wrote: »

You force de facto the people to buy new hardware.
=>
No, will never happen.

Like, you know, in the early 90's, when the first MacOS and Windows came out, they "forced people to buy new hardware : a MOUSE"... which is why it never happened...

And, to add to your point...

Doesn't Voice Chat also force people to buy hardware? (headset/microphone)
Since the ones that come with consoles are complete crap and usually break after a couple of weeks.

PinoZino

RatedChaotic wrote: »

Some people are getting off topic. This is about text chat not about polls.

Where were you when someone used that poll as evidence?

PinoZino

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

What does this have to do with text chat ? (that's what this thread is about, remember).
Just another attempt to escape from the topic on which you know exactly what would work and what wouldn't but still have nothing viable to suggest ?

People don't have difficulties finding a guild. They have difficulties communicating with voice within their guilds and even more so OUTSIDE of their guilds / group.

You see, you're really paralyzed by the headlight of TextChat.
Probably you had no problem with finding a guild. At least I didn't.
But that doesn't mean no people do have a problem with finding one.
To find a guild you have to communicate with others. Only...the communication isn't wow.
So you have to find other and better solutions to connect yourself with a guild.

aldyftb

Rather than being paralyzed by textchat, I kinda feel paralysed by not having it

PinoZino

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

PinoZino wrote: »

You force de facto the people to buy new hardware.
=>
No, will never happen.

Like, you know, in the early 90's, when the first MacOS and Windows came out, they "forced people to buy new hardware : a MOUSE"... which is why it never happened...

Furthermore, you simply cannot say a solution is ergonomically not viable when Microsoft is investing in it. They've certainly made more extensive and expensive scientific studies about it than you could ever do.

And last but not least, people would have THREE options for text input : on-screen keyboard, external standard keyboard, and keypad. That's plenty of options. Only one of them implies your so dreaded "device shifting".

The mouse was already available in the 80ties (and even earlier). And unless you had a computer with a GUI (Atari ST, Amiga, Mac, Acorn, ...) most people had no mouse.
You could notice this in the software as well: most software was keyboard-focused and mouse support was weak or didn't exist at all.
It changed slowly when Windows 3.1 hit the surface. The bulk of the people begun to install it and yes without a question you really needed a mouse.
But hell, that was Microsoft able to push a semi-OS on each computer.
While ZOS has some power, it's not like Microsoft, not even close. And they are certainly not in the same position to do the same.

anitajoneb17_ESO

PinoZino wrote: »

You see, you're really paralyzed by the headlight of TextChat.

Nope, just want to keep the thread on topic in spite of all your repeated efforts to derail it and have it closed.

PinoZino wrote: »

But that doesn't mean no people do have a problem with finding one.

Pure assumption. Where's your scientific thoroughness ? Any study or "reliable poll" to back this up ?

PinoZino wrote: »

To find a guild you have to communicate with others. Only...the communication isn't wow.
So you have to find other and better solutions to connect yourself with a guild.

The topic is this thread is to find better real-time means of communication ingame. Finding a guild does not require real-time means of communication in game. Even on PC, good reliable guilds do not recruit via text chat ingame but via applications on their websites outside the game.

You're totally off-topic Pino.

PinoZino

Vulsahdaal wrote: »

But zone chat is the main issue. If you are looking for a solution of how we can type personal messages to each other, what is the point? I believe this can already be done?
But, as far as not finding a new solution for zone chat, well tbh I havent found one either.. And I dont believe has anyone else here. So try to understand, this is why we call upon a solution given to us long, long ago, which was bestowed upon the pcmr by the game gods long before the first xbox console crawled upon dry land. In the ancient language of pc, it was called 'text chat'.
So is this solution outdated? Could there be a much easier, more modernized and better fitting solution out there somewhere, that no one has even thought of yet? Well, yes its possible.. But right now, and anywhere in the immediate future, it would seem this 'text chat' is the only known and time tested/proven solution that could work.
Wouldnt it be better to implement the only known solution in this case, rather than settle for no solution at all while we wait for an absolute perfect one that may never arrive? I would think so anyway..

That's what you assume. But at ZOS they probably have a report somewhere explaining what's main and what's not.

Are you aware about the possibly that most players on the consoles don't chat at all?

anitajoneb17_ESO

PinoZino wrote: »

While ZOS has some power, it's not like Microsoft, not even close. And they are certainly not in the same position to do the same.

As far as I know, the "new hardware" that is being pushed for use in conjunction with the gamepad is.... a Microsoft keypad.
So yes, it's Microsoft again.
I don't see as inappropriate the use an additional piece of hardware currently pushed by... Microsoft. It makes even A LOT OF SENSE.

korbrent

Personally I prefer to not have a text chat, as I have experienced in Dragons Nest (a PC MMORPG) my damned group would be busy typing while I was getting mauled in a a dungeon and being forced to solo it with no help from them, then I see chat saying "Oh I'm here" when I already completed the thing. In summary: Chats steal focus leaving many players stuck in hell. Plus it encourages players to focus on real communication and making the eso community more of a community.

anitajoneb17_ESO

PinoZino wrote: »

But at ZOS they probably have a report somewhere explaining what's main and what's not.

That's what YOU assume. But as usual, others' assumptions are false and yours are right ?

PinoZino wrote: »

Are you aware about the possibly that most players on the consoles don't chat at all?

Are you aware of the possibility that most players don't chat at all but would like to, if the tools for it were provided ?
(Like... say... for instance... text chat ??? )

EZgoin76

What we have here... is a failure... to communicate.

Pino wants something that doesn't exist and may never exist. While the pro text chat crowd wants something that already exist, is proven to work and thousands of console mmo players have been using for years.

Does anyone besides me see how utterly ridiculous this is?

Warning!!! Don't feed the troll.

Nergie4242

EZgoin76 wrote: »

What we have here... is a failure... to communicate.

Pino wants something that doesn't exist and may never exist. While the pro text chat crowd wants something that already exist, is proven to work and thousands of console mmo players have been using for years.

Does anyone besides me see how utterly ridiculous this is?

Warning!!! Don't feed the troll.

I think pretty much everyone but ZOS sees it. Thats why I dont give them any money.

To be blunt they dont deserve it.

anitajoneb17_ESO

korbrent wrote: »

Personally I prefer to not have a text chat, as I have experienced in Dragons Nest (a PC MMORPG) my damned group would be busy typing while I was getting mauled in a a dungeon and being forced to solo it with no help from them, then I see chat saying "Oh I'm here" when I already completed the thing. In summary: Chats steal focus leaving many players stuck in hell. Plus it encourages players to focus on real communication and making the eso community more of a community.

I respect you not liking text chat but... is text chat a "non-real" or "less real communication" ?
Given the testimonies of many console players about voice chat (dogs barking, background noise, loud music, racist comments, etc...) I don't see how voice chat promotes "real communication" and makes the community "more of a community"... I think it makes people turn voice chat off and play solo, that's what I see...

korbrent

Text cchat is 100& no-go but if people actually put money into buying some headsets for their system it wouldn't be a problem, would it?