Maintenance for the week of October 28:
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 28, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
· Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – October 30, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
· PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – October 30, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 28, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
· Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – October 30, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
· PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – October 30, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
The issue is resolved, and the North American PlayStation® megaserver is now available. Thank you for your patience!
Console players how do you feel about having no txt chat?
-
PinoZino✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »@PinoZino :
As glad as I am that you actually come up with concrete solutions, how is your suggestion different from the quickchat feature that is already available in the game ?
The differences are rather big.
In the current system you can assign one of the 22 premade phrases to an emote quick-slot.
In my system you don't have to assign anything and you'll have a richer pallet of phrases.
The current system is 'dumb'.
While in my system the conversation is streamlined.
By instance:
In the current system you could ask me via Quick Chat "Group up?"
I could answer with a "Self-congratulate". It doesn't make sense. But so am I.
In my system you certainly should be able to ask "Group up?"
By the responses should be limited to the context: yes, no, later, ...
In the current system there's no log of your conversations.
If someone asked you something and you didn't respond immediately you might forget very fast (a matter of minutes) who asked it.
It's even possible that in the current system you don't know what he asked. You were maybe in a battle and your attention was not focused on chatting. In such case it's very likely that you know he asked or said something, but you don't know what.
With a log system, you can jump into the conversation anytime. Even when you went offline and returned.
I'm not sure "limiting" the answering options is necessary : if people make nonsense it's their issue, not the system's. But if I understand correctly, it's more meant to help the system pre-choose answers and therefore simplify the entry of data. Sounds good to me.
And yes logging is very good. How do you see it happen ? How would the user see this log ?
Limiting answering options is usually good. Google "The paradox of choice".
It is also making the communication faster and to the point.
Anita: "Group up?"
Pino: "Self-congratulate"
Anita: *uh?*
Anita: "Group up?"
Pino: "Self-congratulate"
Anita: *moving away*
Storing can be similar managed like SMS messages are stored in your mobile phone. On your mobile you know who talked to you and there's a history log of your conversations.
Let the user decide if he wants to delete the contact person and/or the history log.
Founder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Storing can be similar managed like SMS messages are stored in your mobile phone. On your mobile you know who talked to you and there's a history log of your conversations.
Let the user decide if he wants to delete the contact person and/or the history log.
Too bad, you started giving actual answers and suggestions and yet again you're starting to talk like we were idiots and not answering the question.
So i repeat the question : how would players, UI-wise, access the log ? On my phone I need to go through menus, choose "inbox", browse through messages. I don't think that would be very handy in a game.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on October 27, 2015 11:16AM0 -
Uberkull✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »@PinoZino :
As glad as I am that you actually come up with concrete solutions, how is your suggestion different from the quickchat feature that is already available in the game ?
The differences are rather big.
In the current system you can assign one of the 22 premade phrases to an emote quick-slot.
In my system you don't have to assign anything and you'll have a richer pallet of phrases.
The current system is 'dumb'.
While in my system the conversation is streamlined.
By instance:
In the current system you could ask me via Quick Chat "Group up?"
I could answer with a "Self-congratulate". It doesn't make sense. But so am I.
In my system you certainly should be able to ask "Group up?"
By the responses should be limited to the context: yes, no, later, ...
In the current system there's no log of your conversations.
If someone asked you something and you didn't respond immediately you might forget very fast (a matter of minutes) who asked it.
It's even possible that in the current system you don't know what he asked. You were maybe in a battle and your attention was not focused on chatting. In such case it's very likely that you know he asked or said something, but you don't know what.
With a log system, you can jump into the conversation anytime. Even when you went offline and returned.
I'm not sure "limiting" the answering options is necessary : if people make nonsense it's their issue, not the system's. But if I understand correctly, it's more meant to help the system pre-choose answers and therefore simplify the entry of data. Sounds good to me.
And yes logging is very good. How do you see it happen ? How would the user see this log ?
Limiting answering options is usually good. Google "The paradox of choice".
It is also making the communication faster and to the point.
Anita: "Group up?"
Pino: "Self-congratulate"
Anita: *uh?*
Anita: "Group up?"
Pino: "Self-congratulate"
Anita: *moving away*
Storing can be similar managed like SMS messages are stored in your mobile phone. On your mobile you know who talked to you and there's a history log of your conversations.
Let the user decide if he wants to delete the contact person and/or the history log.
Lol. Who cares about local, area communication. The bigger problem here is reaching out to people across the zone. LFG, WTS, WTT, along with Cyrodiil..."DC is attacking north wall of Farrogot Keep" or "LFG", both broadcasting across Cyrodill.
Text chat solves this, period.
▬ஜ Seeds of War, Piles of Skulls ஜ▬
▬▬▬ஜ twitch.tv/uberkull ஜ▬▬▬2 -
PinoZino✭✭✭✭
So how exactly do you USE this system with a gamepad(as you call it)? All the buttons are accounted for which is why ZOS was limited to using the quick chat system that uses the radial dial assigned to the d-pad.
As it stands, there is no way to efficiently control your character and communicate using the radial dial. It's too slow and its directional...chat bubble needs to be in the players line of sight.
How would your system even work to efficentky communicate?
With the chatpad that MS has released for XB1 and the proper implementation from ZOS where ENTER key activates the test chat, you could type your message quickly and efficiently.
The radial menu is from a usability point of view a very good gizmo. It fits perfectly in Fitts's law.
But not with a gamepad. You can't precisely point to NE, SE, SW and NW. Often the player will make a mistake.
With a mouse it's golden.
But you can use a vertical list with options too. Very classic, but much better when used with a gamepad. With a list you're not limited to 8 items as well. However, they shouldn't use much more options per list. 11 or 12 maximum or maybe another number, they should test it with players using a gamepad.
I wouldn't use bubbles for obvious reasons. On the consoles, there's some room below the screen, perfect for subtitles.
They could emulate a bit the behaviour of IRC and add the name of the player. And they could combine it with a colour. A colour alone isn't smart, always use more cues when you're working with colour.
Example:
PinoZino: Want to explore Stros M'Kai?
uberkull: Sure why not.
Founder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
Ace_of_Destiny✭✭✭✭✭So,...basically, some people want to replace a simple, time-tested chatbox which is easy to use, and learn, and replace it with an over-complicated mess of some sort of chatwheel with predictory text?
What a great frelling idea!
While we are at it let's replace the easy to use game controllers with a huge "dance dance revolution" type of floor pad to control our chracter's movements as well!
It makes just as much sense!
As much sense as this...
Player: "ZOS, why is there no textbox?"
ZOS: "It cannot be read from the couch."
Player: "Then how do people read the quick-chat boxes?"
ZOS: "Um...well...you see...sorry we have to go now!"EQUALIZE ALL PLATFORMS!
IF ONE HAS IT...ALL SHOULD HAVE IT!!
)==================================================(
~MegaServer~>PS4 (NA) ~PSN~>Ace-of-Destiny
)===================================================(
I don't care what platform it is on...an MMORPG without Text Chat is NOT an MMORPG!7 -
aldyftb✭✭✭Ace_of_Destiny wrote: »So,...basically, some people want to replace a simple, time-tested chatbox which is easy to use, and learn, and replace it with an over-complicated mess of some sort of chatwheel with predictory text?
What a great frelling idea!
While we are at it let's replace the easy to use game controllers with a huge "dance dance revolution" type of floor pad to control our chracter's movements as well!
It makes just as much sense!
As much sense as this...
Player: "ZOS, why is there no textbox?"
ZOS: "It cannot be read from the couch."
Player: "Then how do people read the quick-chat boxes?"
ZOS: "Um...well...you see...sorry we have to go now!"
Made me smile quite loudly haha. Agreed though, why make something more complicated than needs be, for it to work properly, you'd need a list of 100+ commands. Gonna be a pain in the arse to keep sorting through everytime you wanna say something.1 -
Tommy1979AtWar✭✭✭✭Ace_of_Destiny wrote: »So,...basically, some people want to replace a simple, time-tested chatbox which is easy to use, and learn, and replace it with an over-complicated mess of some sort of chatwheel with predictory text?
What a great frelling idea!
While we are at it let's replace the easy to use game controllers with a huge "dance dance revolution" type of floor pad to control our chracter's movements as well!
It makes just as much sense!
As much sense as this...
Player: "ZOS, why is there no textbox?"
ZOS: "It cannot be read from the couch."
Player: "Then how do people read the quick-chat boxes?"
ZOS: "Um...well...you see...sorry we have to go now!"
This^0 -
Uberkull✭✭✭✭✭I'm gonna link this here....since we ain't getting text chat, I'm gonna improve the grouping system:
Group Broadcast▬ஜ Seeds of War, Piles of Skulls ஜ▬
▬▬▬ஜ twitch.tv/uberkull ஜ▬▬▬0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I wouldn't use bubbles for obvious reasons. On the consoles, there's some room below the screen, perfect for subtitles.
If you use the subtitles' space for chat, where do you put the subtitles then ? (Overlapping isn't good for reading at all, and there are NPCs talking to us most of the time). And if two players "quick-chat" with you at once, will their messages overlap each other too ? I guess you'd have to make them scroll one way or the other... (which gets us closer to a... chatbox...)
4 -
PinoZino✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
If you use the subtitles' space for chat, where do you put the subtitles then ? (Overlapping isn't good for reading at all, and there are NPCs talking to us most of the time). And if two players "quick-chat" with you at once, will their messages overlap each other too ? I guess you'd have to make them scroll one way or the other... (which gets us closer to a... chatbox...)
Did you ever watched a movie with subtitles?
It can be fixed in the same way.
Edited by PinoZino on October 27, 2015 12:39PMFounder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
aldyftb✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
If you use the subtitles' space for chat, where do you put the subtitles then ? (Overlapping isn't good for reading at all, and there are NPCs talking to us most of the time). And if two players "quick-chat" with you at once, will their messages overlap each other too ? I guess you'd have to make them scroll one way or the other... (which gets us closer to a... chatbox...)
Did you ever watched a movie with subtitles?
It can't be fixed in the same way.
Terribly sorry pino, but im failing to see what you're getting at.Edited by aldyftb on October 27, 2015 11:50AM0 -
Ace_of_Destiny✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
If you use the subtitles' space for chat, where do you put the subtitles then ? (Overlapping isn't good for reading at all, and there are NPCs talking to us most of the time). And if two players "quick-chat" with you at once, will their messages overlap each other too ? I guess you'd have to make them scroll one way or the other... (which gets us closer to a... chatbox...)
Did you ever watched a movie with subtitles?
It can't be fixed in the same way.
Terribly sorry pino, but im failing to see whst you're getting at.
Yeah, definitely made me say "WTF?" as well!EQUALIZE ALL PLATFORMS!
IF ONE HAS IT...ALL SHOULD HAVE IT!!
)==================================================(
~MegaServer~>PS4 (NA) ~PSN~>Ace-of-Destiny
)===================================================(
I don't care what platform it is on...an MMORPG without Text Chat is NOT an MMORPG!0 -
PinoZino✭✭✭✭Ace_of_Destiny wrote: »So,...basically, some people want to replace a simple, time-tested chatbox which is easy to use, and learn, and replace it with an over-complicated mess of some sort of chatwheel with predictory text?
What a great frelling idea!
While we are at it let's replace the easy to use game controllers with a huge "dance dance revolution" type of floor pad to control our chracter's movements as well!
It makes just as much sense!
As much sense as this...
Player: "ZOS, why is there no textbox?"
ZOS: "It cannot be read from the couch."
Player: "Then how do people read the quick-chat boxes?"
ZOS: "Um...well...you see...sorry we have to go now!"
Using a keyboard on a couch isn't user-friendly.
Using a gamepad for writing a full text isn't user-friendly.
Using a simple option list with a gamepad can be very user-friendly.
It doesn't have to be complicated and it shouldn't be.
If it's developed right, it would feel very intuitive.
Founder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ace_of_Destiny wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
If you use the subtitles' space for chat, where do you put the subtitles then ? (Overlapping isn't good for reading at all, and there are NPCs talking to us most of the time). And if two players "quick-chat" with you at once, will their messages overlap each other too ? I guess you'd have to make them scroll one way or the other... (which gets us closer to a... chatbox...)
Did you ever watched a movie with subtitles?
It can't be fixed in the same way.
Terribly sorry pino, but im failing to see whst you're getting at.
Yeah, definitely made me say "WTF?" as well!
Oh, don't worry, he's just "playing Pino". That means, rephrasing the issue (which did not need rephrasing) and make it sound like an answer. That's why it is soo exhausting to discuss with Pino. I still believe though he might have some good suggestions, which is why I carry on.
Mind answering the question Pino, please ?
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on October 27, 2015 11:58AM0 -
aldyftb✭✭✭Ace_of_Destiny wrote: »So,...basically, some people want to replace a simple, time-tested chatbox which is easy to use, and learn, and replace it with an over-complicated mess of some sort of chatwheel with predictory text?
What a great frelling idea!
While we are at it let's replace the easy to use game controllers with a huge "dance dance revolution" type of floor pad to control our chracter's movements as well!
It makes just as much sense!
As much sense as this...
Player: "ZOS, why is there no textbox?"
ZOS: "It cannot be read from the couch."
Player: "Then how do people read the quick-chat boxes?"
ZOS: "Um...well...you see...sorry we have to go now!"
Using a keyboard on a couch isn't user-friendly.
Using a gamepad for writing a full text isn't user-friendly.
Using a simple option list with a gamepad can be very user-friendly.
It doesn't have to be complicated and it shouldn't be.
If it's developed right, it would feel very intuitive.
For it to be effective though, its gonna need at least 100+ presets. Honestly, you're gonna be able to type quicker with a gamepad than searching through 100+ phases yo find the right one0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ace_of_Destiny wrote: »
Player: "ZOS, why is there no textbox?"
ZOS: "It cannot be read from the couch."
Player: "Then how do people read the quick-chat boxes?"
ZOS: "Um...well...you see...sorry we have to go now!"
Using a keyboard on a couch isn't user-friendly.
Using a gamepad for writing a full text isn't user-friendly.
Using a simple option list with a gamepad can be very user-friendly.
It doesn't have to be complicated and it shouldn't be.
If it's developed right, it would feel very intuitive.
The issue brought up here is not about the entry of data being easy or not, intuitive or not, but the reading distance. If a couch is supposedly too far for reading a chatbox, how come it is not too far for reading a quickchat bubble ? Same question applies to subtitles and chatting text in subtitle format.
2 -
PinoZino✭✭✭✭Founder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
Tommy1979AtWar✭✭✭✭I can't remember the last time I read such nonsense... oh wait, yesterday, yep I remember now, I was in this thread and Pino was here....
Pino seriously I don't know whether you're trolling or not anymore because I've never seen a troll put so much effort into talking such utter nonsense, all we need is a simple chat option which is the same as what's already implemented on PC, it's tried and tested, it obviously works.
You're entitled to your opinion but others don't have to agree with you.
Just because you don't believe it's user friendly to use a keyboard or gamepad whilst on a couch doesn't mean everyone feels the same.
I'm sitting on my couch now typing this on a wireless keyboard and it feels perfectly comfortable and user friendly to me.
Why the hell do you think they sell branded keyboards and text pads for controllers?.... because people use them.
I really don't see what you're gaining from any of this.
0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You can watch it on Youtube.
But I still don't understand what Pino is getting at.
If it's just about showing a subtitled video, thanks Pino but we already know how those work.
If you wanted to demonstrate something in particular, please explain.0 -
PinoZino✭✭✭✭
Link a video that cant be played, well done Pino.
It can be played. Just click the link YouTube is providing you.
Founder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
aldyftb✭✭✭Yeah I got it in the end, didnt come up eith the "open with youtube" until after I posted. But yeah, wut?0
-
Ace_of_Destiny✭✭✭✭✭How are all you people still replying to the PZ guy?
I figured everybody put him on their ignore list at least twenty pages ago...like I did.
Obvious baiting is obvious...just this man's opinion though.
It doesn't help people ignore somebody when everybody else in a thread keeps quoting them. (lol)
In summation:
Chatbox works in many other console multi-player games...and has worked for every MMO ever on PC.
Any company, or player, that makes excuses why it wouldn't work for ESO is just ignorant, is baiting/trolling, or just wants to "re-invent the wheel" to feed their own bloated ego.
We do not need to find an alternative work-around.
We just either convince ZOS it is needed...or move on to other games which offer the services we want, and "vote with our dollars".
I have pretty much "moved on".
I only log into ESO to help my friends run my guild.
I found it far too time-consuming to run an ESO guild without ingame textchat...having to run the guild from several third-party sources instead of IN THE GAME grew to be a major pain in the arse.
Bring on 11/10/2015!Edited by Ace_of_Destiny on October 27, 2015 12:11PMEQUALIZE ALL PLATFORMS!
IF ONE HAS IT...ALL SHOULD HAVE IT!!
)==================================================(
~MegaServer~>PS4 (NA) ~PSN~>Ace-of-Destiny
)===================================================(
I don't care what platform it is on...an MMORPG without Text Chat is NOT an MMORPG!3 -
PinoZino✭✭✭✭
For it to be effective though, its gonna need at least 100+ presets. Honestly, you're gonna be able to type quicker with a gamepad than searching through 100+ phases yo find the right one
No, that's not true. With good datamining you really can limit the amount of presets.
And even 100 presets wouldn't be such a big deal, if you work with 2 lists of 10 items each.
Founder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
PinoZino✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »You can watch it on Youtube.
But I still don't understand what Pino is getting at.
If it's just about showing a subtitled video, thanks Pino but we already know how those work.
If you wanted to demonstrate something in particular, please explain.
Probably you didn't know how it's working.
You see 2 people sometimes react very fast to each other. And some magic is going on: the subtitles can follow the pace.Founder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »You can watch it on Youtube.
But I still don't understand what Pino is getting at.
If it's just about showing a subtitled video, thanks Pino but we already know how those work.
If you wanted to demonstrate something in particular, please explain.
Probably you didn't know how it's working.
You see 2 people sometimes react very fast to each other. And some magic is going on: the subtitles can follow the pace.
It's you who don't know how it's working.
The subtitles following the pace isn't magic, it's because it's adjusted manually. With extra info on top of the screen whenever required, that doesn't overlap wit the subtitles.
It's possible because the two people are talking WITH each other, not over each other.
Now in the game if an NPC is talking to you (with subtitles) and a player is "wheelchatting" to you at the same (obviously not knowing that an NPC is talking to you, the two would overlap each other completely. That makes the space for subtitles UNUSABLE for "wheelchatting".
You said it yourself :It can't be fixed in the same way.
So where are you getting at ?
0 -
PinoZino✭✭✭✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »I can't remember the last time I read such nonsense... oh wait, yesterday, yep I remember now, I was in this thread and Pino was here....
I remember it too. Someone used a biased poll as evidence for his statement. I'm glad you could remember it, with some difficulties, as well.Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »
I feel annoyed that it doesn't even seem important enough to warrant a simple yes, no or "we've heard you and we're taking another look at that as an option for you guys" answer from zos.
This helpful poll from Pino shows that a majority of console users would find a use for text chat as they either already have a keyboard attached, attach one whilst playing ESO or would indeed attach one should an optional text chat become available.
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/222369/do-you-have-attached-a-keyboard-to-your-console-ps4-or-xbox-one/p1Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Pino seriously I don't know whether you're trolling or not anymore because I've never seen a troll put so much effort into talking such utter nonsense, all we need is a simple chat option which is the same as what's already implemented on PC, it's tried and tested, it obviously works.
It is also not constructive or helpful to publicly call out others and accuse them of trolling, or call them a troll—please refrain from doing so.
Source:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843/community-rules
You called me earlier a drunk, stupid and of course a troll. I don't get it why it seems you always get away with such things.Edited by PinoZino on October 27, 2015 12:43PMFounder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
randomkeyhits✭✭✭✭✭Wanted to write a big long diatribe about the voice only + current grouping system being pants but its enough that I've not been able to get into a group dungeon yet.
At the moment I'm just playing this game mostly as a solo one and that isn't right.
Maybe text chat isn't the be all and end all but if it helps me get what I want, which is to run group instances then sure, I want it.EU PS41 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't get it why it seems you always get away with such things.
I told you already, Pino, there's just so much you don't get... :-) And don't forget that poll he used to back up his statement was YOUR poll.
But I'll answer this one for you : we know you're trying to get this thread closed, and we don't want this thread closed. That's why we're extra careful. See, he didn't call you a troll, he was merely wondering if you were one.
Back to topic now please ?
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on October 27, 2015 12:43PM0
https://youtu.be/WDiB4rtp1qwThis discussion has been closed.