The Death of the Dragonknight- updated 3/15/16

Rayste · October 2015

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Where's that damn 'LOL' button?

Rayste wrote: »

Thecapeo wrote: »

I haven't really played in weeks now. IC gutted my med armor stam DK. I was finally at the point where I was winning against decent players in 1v1 and some 1vX and boom, whole build dead. I played IC as much as I could stand but between the grind, the really not well thought PvE-PvP combination, and extreme frustration that my build was now useless I find myself almost never logging in anymore.

Too many massive changes at once, ZOS.

Check out Sribes build. DK stamina build is actually one of the strongest 1v1 builds around. So much sustain and burst together.

Lol, that build has three DK class abilities right? It's a good build and there are other really good Stam DKs out there, but the point is the Class skills need a buff. Any class can use those weapon abilities.

I get that .... but those 2-3 make the stamina build an absolute beast. Helping hands (fossilize) + battle roar (take flight) + burst (take flight with uppercut) and reflect pretty much allow a dk stam build a brutal opponent to face especially for a ranged build.

I am not saying that some of the skills don't need to be looked at or that magicka DKs are in a great place. Just trying to put it in perspective.

PhatGrimReaper · October 2015

Rayste wrote: »

I am not saying that some of the skills don't need to be looked at or that magicka DKs are in a great place. Just trying to put it in perspective.

Ultimately the issue with the PVP Dragonknight is poor synergy..... It's a tanky class by nature that is intended to thrive in melee combat, Non-mobile melee combat lends itself to Heavy Armor & Sword/Shield, but to sustain block for any significant period of time requires a huge stamina pool.... this is an issue when all of the key defensive abilities in our class skill lines are magicka.

Okay we could stack magicka - No stam to block in melee = dead.... we can stack stam for block - no magicka for defensive skills = dead.... Standard, Igneous Shield and GDB all scale off max health.... we could stack health - no magicka or stamina = very dead

To put things in perspective, Magicka Sorcs main source of Defensive scales off magicka, Sorcs main source of damage scales off magicka & Sorcs escape mechanism also scales off magicka..... hmmm seems fair!

Anyway, see you TF bro.

frozywozy · October 2015

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Rayste wrote: »

I am not saying that some of the skills don't need to be looked at or that magicka DKs are in a great place. Just trying to put it in perspective.

Ultimately the issue with the PVP Dragonknight is poor synergy..... It's a tanky class by nature that is intended to thrive in melee combat, Non-mobile melee combat lends itself to Heavy Armor & Sword/Shield, but to sustain block for any significant period of time requires a huge stamina pool.... this is an issue when all of the key defensive abilities in our class skill lines are magicka.

Okay we could stack magicka - No stam to block in melee = dead.... we can stack stam for block - no magicka for defensive skills = dead.... Standard, Igneous Shield and GDB all scale off max health.... we could stack health - no magicka or stamina = very dead

To put things in perspective, Magicka Sorcs main source of Defensive scales off magicka, Sorcs main source of damage scales off magicka & Sorcs escape mechanism also scales off magicka..... hmmm seems fair!

Anyway, see you TF bro.

This is a great point that I have mentioned several times in the past. They need to isolate each corner of the triangle :

survivability <=> sustain <=> damage

And make it like investing in one of the three doesn't bring any benefit to the other two. Just like when you create your character and give him an heroic, muscular or large appearance. can't have em all.

Rayste · October 2015

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Rayste wrote: »

I am not saying that some of the skills don't need to be looked at or that magicka DKs are in a great place. Just trying to put it in perspective.

To put things in perspective, Magicka Sorcs main source of Defensive scales off magicka, Sorcs main source of damage scales off magicka & Sorcs escape mechanism also scales off magicka..... hmmm seems fair!

Anyway, see you TF bro.

I can get on board with all you said but careful on this one...

Reflective scales pretty much negates a lot of my load out. I understand that this is my l2p issue as that is how I have chosen to run but it doesn't change the fact that this one skill can negate my entire dps bar. I also understand that wasnt the point you were making BUT each class has its advantages and disadvantages.

Anyways, that's for another thread and there have been several already.

By the way, they already said they would be tweaking the DKs so no worries on your part.

I switched to Azura's btw!

babanovac · October 2015

Etaniel wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SAT0rLNhwk&feature=youtu.be
Add to that broken wings, can't even reflect one projectile

You need to make a separate thread with this and ZOS needs to acknowledge this problem.

Etaniel · October 2015

babanovac wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SAT0rLNhwk&feature=youtu.be
Add to that broken wings, can't even reflect one projectile

You need to make a separate thread with this and ZOS needs to acknowledge this problem.

I did, the thread is here : http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2319726

SC0TY999 · October 2015

Etaniel wrote: »

babanovac wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SAT0rLNhwk&feature=youtu.be
Add to that broken wings, can't even reflect one projectile

You need to make a separate thread with this and ZOS needs to acknowledge this problem.

I did, the thread is here : http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2319726

ZOS don't get a ***, which is just how I feel about this game!

Thecapeo · October 2015

Rayste wrote: »

Thecapeo wrote: »

I haven't really played in weeks now. IC gutted my med armor stam DK. I was finally at the point where I was winning against decent players in 1v1 and some 1vX and boom, whole build dead. I played IC as much as I could stand but between the grind, the really not well thought PvE-PvP combination, and extreme frustration that my build was now useless I find myself almost never logging in anymore.

Too many massive changes at once, ZOS.

Check out Sribes build. DK stamina build is actually one of the strongest 1v1 builds around. So much sustain and burst together.

You mean that build that depends on a ton of gear I don't have, tri-pot spam, over 4X my CP, and animation canceling? That's the issue. I had a play style I enjoyed and crafted gear with which I could still be competitive while acquiring better gear. I could tank 3 people for short periods or use maneuverability and still sustain. All that is destroyed now. Too many nerfs all at once is ridiculous. Incrementally I probably could have adapted. As it was I logged in after the patch and and I was suddenly useless in PvP.

Talcyndl · October 2015

Thecapeo wrote: »

You mean that build that depends on a ton of gear I don't have, tri-pot spam, over 4X my CP, and animation canceling? That's the issue. I had a play style I enjoyed and crafted gear with which I could still be competitive while acquiring better gear. I could tank 3 people for short periods or use maneuverability and still sustain. All that is destroyed now. Too many nerfs all at once is ridiculous. Incrementally I probably could have adapted. As it was I logged in after the patch and and I was suddenly useless in PvP.

For all the talk about how Magicka DKs were rendered useless, it's good to remember that the few of us who played tanky PvP DKs were hit as hard, if not harder.

DUTCH_REAPER · October 2015

The class in general was hit hard. Looking back I can see those pivatol moments. I am really hoping they make some tweaks to it soon (healing/block/dps, something..anything). I shelved my 2 pvp DK V16s for the moment and hopped on the NB bandwagon. (I know...judge away I admit it but ZOS put me in this predicament

DUTCH_REAPER · October 2015

Btw there are SO many NBs leveling in the beginning zones. Haha IC is gonna be cloak and dagger heavy for sure. What does that tell ya ZOS??

Jules · October 2015

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

The class in general was hit hard. Looking back I can see those pivatol moments. I am really hoping they make some tweaks to it soon (healing/block/dps, something..anything). I shelved my 2 pvp DK V16s for the moment and hopped on the NB bandwagon. (I know...judge away I admit it but ZOS put me in this predicament

I did the same. Or atleast most nights I'm on my NB, even though I feel like a filthy traitor.
Albeit muchhhhh squishier, the ability for high damage and mobility on a NB gives everything that DK does not.

DUTCH_REAPER · October 2015

Ikr...I just feel so dirty when I log onto my NB. Lol. But your absolutely right. I have no struggles on my NB except for inept skills at using him unlike the battle I face with my DKs.

Alcast · October 2015

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

Btw there are SO many NBs leveling in the beginning zones. Haha IC is gonna be cloak and dagger heavy for sure. What does that tell ya ZOS??

Whenever i go IC with my DK(or Sorc/Temp) sneaking around and then I see Nbs just cloaking through enemies I am like: goooooooood job ZOS, goooooooood job ><

Templars are on the same level together with DKs.....no escape abiltiy....at least DK has burst abilities.

Wollust · October 2015

Alcast wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

Btw there are SO many NBs leveling in the beginning zones. Haha IC is gonna be cloak and dagger heavy for sure. What does that tell ya ZOS??

Whenever i go IC with my DK(or Sorc/Temp) sneaking around and then I see Nbs just cloaking through enemies I am like: goooooooood job ZOS, goooooooood job ><

Templars are on the same level together with DKs.....no escape abiltiy....at least DK has burst abilities.

you can hardly speak about burst ability with molten armaments. A bad execute only useful with a bow and to some extent with a staff, but not useful as an execute as we know it because it takes too long to charge up.
"Please stay in execute range while I charge my heavy attack."
Want to see a decent player actually doing that lol.

At least the magicka templar has burst through radiant destruction.

Bashev · October 2015

Alcast wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

Btw there are SO many NBs leveling in the beginning zones. Haha IC is gonna be cloak and dagger heavy for sure. What does that tell ya ZOS??

Whenever i go IC with my DK(or Sorc/Temp) sneaking around and then I see Nbs just cloaking through enemies I am like: goooooooood job ZOS, goooooooood job ><

Templars are on the same level together with DKs.....no escape abiltiy....at least DK has burst abilities.

The only burst that DK has is the leap and it is an ultimate. Also it is much better for stamina than magicka build

Ghostbane · October 2015

The only burst my DK has is a deadly fart after a bad Kebab.

_Chaos · October 2015

Alcast wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

Btw there are SO many NBs leveling in the beginning zones. Haha IC is gonna be cloak and dagger heavy for sure. What does that tell ya ZOS??

Whenever i go IC with my DK(or Sorc/Temp) sneaking around and then I see Nbs just cloaking through enemies I am like: goooooooood job ZOS, goooooooood job ><

Templars are on the same level together with DKs.....no escape abiltiy....at least DK has burst abilities.

Templars have a charge ability that works, a burst heal that still works, and an execute.

How are they near on the same level? I can solo with my Templar still and actually get kills, where as my DK will fight someone for 10 minutes and we both end up walking away because of the low DPS to burst each other down. Proxy+Leap or proxy+DB only goes so far.

Dreyloch · October 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for providing your feedback, and to @Jules for a well-written list of concerns and proposed solutions; we’ve passed this thread along to the Dev team to review. In general, we will be focusing on fixing outstanding ability bugs in the next major update, in addition to supporting some new systems. Larger balance and ability improvements for Dragonknights and the other classes are planned for early next year.

Wait, what? Early next year?!?!? I was gonna go on a very long raging rant Gina, but ZoS is no longer worth the time or effort. Just the same way the Dev's think about fixing this game for it's playerbase. Especially PvP. I get that things take time, but this is absurd to put it lightly. I have many other choice words, but I would get banned. ZoS has to be the worst run MMO company I've ever dealt with.

I'm glad the game is free, I still think it's a pretty game. But the mechanics of it, the balance , having to PAY for fixes with the next DLC? Stuff that should have been done 8 months ago for free? Truly, by far, THE worst. Worse than the latest Fantastic 4 movie. Yep,that bad.

Jules · October 2015

Ghostbane wrote: »

The only burst my DK has is a deadly fart after a bad Kebab.

Too true. Also... you're WTB Waffles?! I lol at that name every time I see it.

Ishammael · October 2015

Jules wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

The only burst my DK has is a deadly fart after a bad Kebab.

Too true. Also... you're WTB Waffles?! I lol at that name every time I see it.

The waffles are mine.

aco5712 · October 2015

Dreyloch wrote: »

Worse than the latest Fantastic 4 movie. Yep,that bad.

that movie was not that bad until the last 10 minutes where i got hella pissed off coz it was super *** and rushed and dumb.

SRIBES · October 2015

I'm still astonished that ZOS isn't helping DK's at all in 1.8.

Yonkit · October 2015

ChannelTribes wrote: »

I'm still astonished that ZOS isn't helping DK's at all in 1.8.

Come on Scribes let's be honest, you're not astonished.

Ghostbane · October 2015

Jules wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

The only burst my DK has is a deadly fart after a bad Kebab.

Too true. Also... you're WTB Waffles?! I lol at that name every time I see it.

Yup. Buying in all shapes and sizes!

You may hopefully see my BWB partner in crime WTS Waffles streaking about soon.

cc: @mtwiggz Level yer crap bro.

NativeJoe · October 2015

While I hate your class (im a sorc so go figure) I agree. you guys CAnnot do damage now. and thanks to several bugs I can now get past your invulnerable reflect which was the entire issue before. but in all honesty we have our "rogues" which pwn us with perma stealth and perma stun now. Night blades are OP as hell... apparently I can't even see with expensive detect potions. Anyway back to your class... I feel you need a buff up. however I don't feel like you should be able to rush me and bash me to death while reflecting while perma blocking like pre-dlc, all the while healing 4k a second.

I get that you guys feel significantly weaker now... but I fall victim to you guys plenty in pvp, and honestly I rather have no other tank then a dragonknight right now. so yeah. it's not like there isn't still functional places for you guys. your just not invulnerable anymore to spell casting.

Anyway ... damage wise you guys, us sorcs (besides crystal frags), really need hard hitting spammable skills like nightblades and Templars have. we're suffering badly because doing 3k damage a second to people that can heal 4k a second is just freaking terrible. idk how to jump on that fact any harder.

dantator · October 2015

I want to 1vX 10+ people again

*sigh sigh*

alduiin · October 2015

blabafat wrote: »

Good post, but I think some DK's are ONLY looking at the negative sides...and fail to consider the positive

Such as:

DK's have the 2nd best ultimates
DK's have good resource management
DK's have the best root in the game[/quote

Used to have good resource managment.

DUTCH_REAPER · October 2015

dantator wrote: »

I want to 1vX 10+ people again *sigh sigh*

Ahh yes I remember those days of Glory and Victory.

Ghostbane · October 2015

dantator wrote: »

I want to 1vX 10+ people again *sigh sigh*

Dan, you couldn't 1 v Burger back in our glory days, never mind 10 !