The Death of the Dragonknight- updated 3/15/16

Nafirian · October 2015

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

What really gets me that they either don't seem to realize how the general changes are affecting and have affected different classes, or that they just don't care - like with magicka DKs.

And then when this is brought up, we're given 4+ months to just hang in there. Four months is a very, very long time when it comes to a game like this. So for 120+ days when one would like to play on a dk, one gets to... enjoy... the current state of it.

Some classes didn't and don't need to block a lot because they have other methods of mitigating / avoiding damage, or escaping. And then there are classes that do need to be able to block. How is the straight-to-0% stamina regen change contributing to build variety? It got rid of certain builds totally. They didn't even make it 50%, they made it 0%. And not buffing Dragon Blood within the next two weeks? Really... That could be a pure change of a numerical value, from what I imagine - and then making that value only apply in Cyrodiil, is it really that difficult?

Its already clear ZOS couldnt care less about dk its either that or 2 other things they are A too lazy to actually work with a class and bring it back into balance with others or are too scared of the backlash from the community going MIMIMIMIMIMI DK OP MIIMIM PLZ NERF ZOS Because we all knew it totally wasn't the scrubs who fed the dks and made the dks so powerful when they were played but hey #ZOSLogic

DUTCH_REAPER · October 2015

Maybe I am taking this all wrong? Maybe this is ZOS way getting me to step away from the 3 V16 variant of DKs I have played, leveled up and enjoyed in the past up to present date? Well congrats...you succeeded. Me being content with what I had previously is obviously a problem. So what ya think Breton NB or IMP NB?

"What's the name of that truck driving school?"

EnOeZ · October 2015

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

What really gets me that they either don't seem to realize how the general changes are affecting and have affected different classes, or that they just don't care - like with magicka DKs.

And then when this is brought up, we're given 4+ months to just hang in there. Four months is a very, very long time when it comes to a game like this. So for 120+ days when one would like to play on a dk, one gets to... enjoy... the current state of it.

Some classes didn't and don't need to block a lot because they have other methods of mitigating / avoiding damage, or escaping. And then there are classes that do need to be able to block. How is the straight-to-0% stamina regen change contributing to build variety? It got rid of certain builds totally. They didn't even make it 50%, they made it 0%. And not buffing Dragon Blood within the next two weeks? Really... That could be a pure change of a numerical value, from what I imagine - and then making that value only apply in Cyrodiil, is it really that difficult?

Want to underline what @RoamingRiverElk said.
The change to block is really defavourable to DKs without good class self heal left and without block, especially in PVP.

That adds to numerous other imbalances to melee DKs that any competent theorycrafter player or even dev would have spotted minutes if not seconds after first tests.

- imbalance on heavy attack mechanics giving back resources between melee and range
- imbalance in block mechanism as OP has explained
- imbalance in class defense mechanics bolt escape, cloak, heal (Templars) and what we have (anti-projectile only with scales but so are cloak and bolt)

Enhance our block
Enhance our resource mechanism

Yonkit · October 2015

Armitas wrote: »

I made a Video showcasing ZOS's development on the DK since release. You should be able to easily identify every update all the way up to 1.7.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-pywxSjT7I

@Armitas that car at the end, is this patch.

vortexman11 · October 2015

Yonkit wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I made a Video showcasing ZOS's development on the DK since release. You should be able to easily identify every update all the way up to 1.7.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-pywxSjT7I

@Armitas that car at the end, is this patch.

I was expecting a bus or a truck to hit him after he got up the last time....

Galalin · October 2015

vortexman11 wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I made a Video showcasing ZOS's development on the DK since release. You should be able to easily identify every update all the way up to 1.7.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-pywxSjT7I

@Armitas that car at the end, is this patch.

I was expecting a bus or a truck to hit him after he got up the last time....

That will be in 3 months time

DK SCRUB OUT

Jules · October 2015

Idk if all the DK's out there saw this, but if you didn't, watch. It's hilarious.

https://youtube.com/watch?t=4&v=eQR_Y2Ms_Bg

aco5712 · October 2015

Jules wrote: »

Idk if all the DK's out there saw this, but if you didn't, watch. It's hilarious.

https://youtube.com/watch?t=4&v=eQR_Y2Ms_Bg

lel

Soulac · October 2015

I mean what do you expect from a team not able to fix major bugs in a relative short time frame?
Yes, I'm looking at you disappearing battle spirit, buggy willows path and champion Passives, endless loading screens and delayed stun breaks etc.
Do you expect them to fix PvP related balance issues even if it's clear that they don't give a damn about it?
I mean look at the PvP based on your view from beta.
We started with camps and mechanics to fight zergs while having little to no lag.
Now camps are removed, mechanics to kill bigger groups are extinct and Azura, the only real PvP campaign, is near unplayable.
Imperial city is a PvE area, nothing else. Zergs and Mobs, nothing meaningful to find there.
You won't see objectives or anything like that anytime soon since the next updates are already clear.

I barely played in the last days cause a SINGLE PLAYER game right now is actually more fun than this laggy and unbalanced PvP.
Patch for patch this game gets worse and I rly don't see where they get their so called "feedback" from.

Just waiting for CU which sounds promising and hopefully doesn't fail.. It's hard to be worse than eso so I got my hopes up.

So DKs, you still think you will get any balance changes anytime soon? Don't think so.

DUTCH_REAPER · October 2015

Sad no dev is reading OPs post.

Hmm there is the little icon now. Maybe they did?

HeroOfNone · October 2015

I think in general most can agree the worst passive in the dragonknight line is elder dragon

Increases Health Recovery by 4% for each Draconic Power ability slotted.

Outside of a few builds, it's absolute crap. At least change it to include all 3 regenerations, or maybe affect a max stat like stamina or magicka =/

Weberda · October 2015

Galalin wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I made a Video showcasing ZOS's development on the DK since release. You should be able to easily identify every update all the way up to 1.7.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-pywxSjT7I

@Armitas that car at the end, is this patch.

I was expecting a bus or a truck to hit him after he got up the last time....

That will be in 3 months time

DK SCRUB OUT

Well, they finally killed your thread. I guess somebody finally showed up at the office. At least they spared you the banhammer.

aco5712 · October 2015

HeroOfNone wrote: »

I think in general most can agree the worst passive in the dragonknight line is elder dragon

Increases Health Recovery by 4% for each Draconic Power ability slotted.

Outside of a few builds, it's absolute crap. At least change it to include all 3 regenerations, or maybe affect a max stat like stamina or magicka =/

should reduce block cost by like 5% instead.

Nafirian · October 2015

Soulac wrote: »

I mean what do you expect from a team not able to fix major bugs in a relative short time frame?
Yes, I'm looking at you disappearing battle spirit, buggy willows path and champion Passives, endless loading screens and delayed stun breaks etc.
Do you expect them to fix PvP related balance issues even if it's clear that they don't give a damn about it?
I mean look at the PvP based on your view from beta.
We started with camps and mechanics to fight zergs while having little to no lag.
Now camps are removed, mechanics to kill bigger groups are extinct and Azura, the only real PvP campaign, is near unplayable.
Imperial city is a PvE area, nothing else. Zergs and Mobs, nothing meaningful to find there.
You won't see objectives or anything like that anytime soon since the next updates are already clear.

I barely played in the last days cause a SINGLE PLAYER game right now is actually more fun than this laggy and unbalanced PvP.
Patch for patch this game gets worse and I rly don't see where they get their so called "feedback" from.

Just waiting for CU which sounds promising and hopefully doesn't fail.. It's hard to be worse than eso so I got my hopes up.

So DKs, you still think you will get any balance changes anytime soon? Don't think so.

Completely agree ZOS really dont care they dont fix major bug fixes dont balance classes and when they "ATTEMPT" To rebalanace something they REINVENT The entire bloody thing vampire dks getting lots of ulti because of scales and idiots plonking projectiles into said flappy flap dk like my self they instead decide to change a CORE GAME MECHANIC for a very easily balance able skill like scales witch was put a cap on it but no they change a core game mechanic for one thing and make zerg busting NOT IMPOSSIBLE but harder and making zerging more favourable this is all because ZOS dont *** listen to their community and In a few year and or months time this is what will happen.

ZOS Employee: We are loosing players wat do.

And it will all be because they didn't listen to the community that loved and still like this game and is getting ruined because a half ass lazy developer don't listen to thier community

K that's my rant over #BringBack1.5

HeroOfNone · October 2015

aco5712 wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

I think in general most can agree the worst passive in the dragonknight line is elder dragon

Increases Health Recovery by 4% for each Draconic Power ability slotted.

Outside of a few builds, it's absolute crap. At least change it to include all 3 regenerations, or maybe affect a max stat like stamina or magicka =/

should reduce block cost by like 5% instead.

We already blocking 10% more with passives. I'd like to see something to encourage the tank and DPS routes.

Bashev · October 2015

HeroOfNone wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

I think in general most can agree the worst passive in the dragonknight line is elder dragon

Increases Health Recovery by 4% for each Draconic Power ability slotted.

Outside of a few builds, it's absolute crap. At least change it to include all 3 regenerations, or maybe affect a max stat like stamina or magicka =/

should reduce block cost by like 5% instead.

We already blocking 10% more with passives. I'd like to see something to encourage the tank and DPS routes.

Which is actually %5 because 0.5*0.1 = 0.05

Talcyndl · October 2015

Re. the blocking issue. I think RoamingRiverElk points to the issue. DKs are the class that needs to be able to block for longer periods of time. The original passives and class bonuses recognized that by lowering the cost of blocking and increasing damage mitigation.

BUT NOW, ZOS has completely changed the dynamics of blocking by introducing a 100% loss of stamina regen while blocking. And yet they failed to add a passive or skill bonus to allow tanky DKs to mitigate that NEW cost.

DUTCH_REAPER · October 2015

If I could get my GDB or Coag Blood to actually do what it's supposed to do, it would make the class much better in pvp than where it's at now.

Armitas · October 2015

Confirmed Dragon Knight buff on today's maintenence.

White-Gold Tower (Normal & Veteran)
The Engulfing Flames ability cast by the Dragonguard mini-boss will now hit anyone standing inside the fiery cone. Any player character standing outside the flames will not be impacted.

DUTCH_REAPER · October 2015

Hahahaha

Galalin · October 2015

Weberda wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I made a Video showcasing ZOS's development on the DK since release. You should be able to easily identify every update all the way up to 1.7.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-pywxSjT7I

@Armitas that car at the end, is this patch.

I was expecting a bus or a truck to hit him after he got up the last time....

That will be in 3 months time

DK SCRUB OUT

Well, they finally killed your thread. I guess somebody finally showed up at the office. At least they spared you the banhammer.

Yeah tbh im kinda surprised.... who knows maybe whoever seen it from ZoS also plays a DK

DK SCRUB OUT

frozywozy · October 2015

I realized yesterday the real problem with DKs right now. Both magicka and stamina DKs can't compete against either a magicka or stamina nightblade for simple reasons.

Let's start with the magicka DK.

If you wanna pull damage and have a chance to kill someone as a magicka DK, you're gonna have to put alot into your magicka pool which will obviously reduce your stamina pool drastically. As a result, you must get kills in the first 20 seconds of any fight (until you run out of stamina). Once you are out of stamina, you get full cc duration and you will die. Even with the TTK increased since IC came out, against glass cannon nightblades, you simply cannot eat a full CC duration without dying.

If you want to resist longer and have better sustain, you're gonna have to reduce your magicka pool to put more points into stamina which will reduce your damage while still not being able to tank that much longer. In the end, you will survive maybe 10-20 seconds more but you won't be able to kill anybody (good) in 1v1 or 1vX.

Let's continue with the stamina DK.

As a stam DK, you have the opportunity to spec both relatively high weapon damage and high regen. I am sitting at 3.2k weapon power and 3k stam regen on my DK atm compared to 2.7k spell power and 2.1k magicka regen on my magicka DK. It allows me to last abit longer because of the broken mechanism which is fossilize + wrecking blow combo. I can dodge roll more often , run faster (quick cloak), remove snares (shuffle) and keep my enemy cc'd more effectively than I was able to on my magicka DK but still nothing compared to nightblade ccs.

A nightblade (no matter if he's stamina or magicka) has 4 very importants tools in his arsenal that he can rotates while keeping him alive against hordes of players for few minutes straight if he's good and in most scenarios he will be able to run away from them.

1) Dodge rolling (once every 4seconds as a magicka nightblade or twice as a stamina nightblade)

2) Fear (aoe disable+slow every 5 seconds)

3) Dark Cloak (best skill in the game atm - I don't need to explain why)

4) Shadow Image (another great skill to kite players which come handy to compensate the lack of dodge rolling of magicka nightblades)

With so many ccs and key abilities, a nightblade doesn't even need high survivability (spell res + armor). Unlike Dragonknights who are being focused all the time and have to really manage their global cooldowns, nightblades can easily squeeze one vigor or one rally here and there between their ccs and dodge rolls.

As a dragonknight, as soon as you're done dodge rolling, you have your enemy right back on you and by the time you proc a heal, you are already being damaged for way more.

Also the only class without an aoe disable in the game.

Solution :

1) Find a way to make dragonknights more tanky again by changing the block mechanism.
2) Make all mechanisms that cost stamina such as blocking, cc breaking, dodge rolling, bashing, sneaking, etc into a different ressource bar than stamina.
3) Design an ability for magicka classes to bring CC immunity for X seconds.

Etaniel · October 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SAT0rLNhwk&feature=youtu.be
Add to that broken wings, can't even reflect one projectile

Thecapeo · October 2015

I haven't really played in weeks now. IC gutted my med armor stam DK. I was finally at the point where I was winning against decent players in 1v1 and some 1vX and boom, whole build dead. I played IC as much as I could stand but between the grind, the really not well thought PvE-PvP combination, and extreme frustration that my build was now useless I find myself almost never logging in anymore.

Too many massive changes at once, ZOS.

EnOeZ · October 2015

Thecapeo wrote: »

I haven't really played in weeks now. IC gutted my med armor stam DK. I was finally at the point where I was winning against decent players in 1v1 and some 1vX and boom, whole build dead. I played IC as much as I could stand but between the grind, the really not well thought PvE-PvP combination, and extreme frustration that my build was now useless I find myself almost never logging in anymore.

Too many massive changes at once, ZOS.

And IC is the NB's playground, so it did not help.

EnOeZ · October 2015

Etaniel wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SAT0rLNhwk&feature=youtu.be
Add to that broken wings, can't even reflect one projectile

OMG I had that impression in PVP that it was not working.....
So it was true !!

Grrrrr ty Zenimax

Thanks for sharing @Etaniel !
Bump !

HeroOfNone · October 2015

EnOeZ wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SAT0rLNhwk&feature=youtu.be
Add to that broken wings, can't even reflect one projectile

OMG I had that impression in PVP that it was not working.....
So it was true !!

Grrrrr ty Zenimax

Thanks for sharing @Etaniel !
Bump !

I was getting that feeling too, but hard to judge if the issue is with me or the lag. I think I noticed that using wings and dodgerolling would seem to negate it.

Rayste · October 2015

Thecapeo wrote: »

I haven't really played in weeks now. IC gutted my med armor stam DK. I was finally at the point where I was winning against decent players in 1v1 and some 1vX and boom, whole build dead. I played IC as much as I could stand but between the grind, the really not well thought PvE-PvP combination, and extreme frustration that my build was now useless I find myself almost never logging in anymore.

Too many massive changes at once, ZOS.

Check out Sribes build. DK stamina build is actually one of the strongest 1v1 builds around. So much sustain and burst together.

PhatGrimReaper · October 2015

Where's that damn 'LOL' button?

Rayste wrote: »

Thecapeo wrote: »

I haven't really played in weeks now. IC gutted my med armor stam DK. I was finally at the point where I was winning against decent players in 1v1 and some 1vX and boom, whole build dead. I played IC as much as I could stand but between the grind, the really not well thought PvE-PvP combination, and extreme frustration that my build was now useless I find myself almost never logging in anymore.

Too many massive changes at once, ZOS.

Check out Sribes build. DK stamina build is actually one of the strongest 1v1 builds around. So much sustain and burst together.

Lol, that build has three DK class abilities right? It's a good build and there are other really good Stam DKs out there, but the point is the Class skills need a buff. Any class can use those weapon abilities.

Riggsy · October 2015

I've been playing a stamina build dps DK since the beginning (when most DKs wore skirts and played with sticks). I'm pleased with my damage output in this latest patch - all general stamina issues aside. But I will agree that its a shame when the majority of my bars are filled with non-class abilities while the few I do run are either stat buffs or debuffs. The lack of an escape ability is bothersome, yet its the absence of an execute that really makes me scratch my head.

Im not seeing a fix anytime soon but I might as well voice my concern.