The Death of the Dragonknight- updated 3/15/16

PhatGrimReaper

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Man, the DK QQ is a bit much...

They tell you they appreciate your points and give you a reasonable timeline, and you STILL QQ?

DK is not nearly as faceroll weak as it was faceroll strong... If you have to deal with a few months as a marginally worse class, it's a small price to pay for a class that was faceroll strong for quite a while.

Come on bro, the "few months as a marginally worse class" was 1.6.... it's not marginal anymore.

RadioheadSh0t

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Man, the DK QQ is a bit much...

They tell you they appreciate your points and give you a reasonable timeline, and you STILL QQ?

DK is not nearly as faceroll weak as it was faceroll strong... If you have to deal with a few months as a marginally worse class, it's a small price to pay for a class that was faceroll strong for quite a while.

Come on bro, the "few months as a marginally worse class" was 1.6.... it's not marginal anymore.

There were more than enough good DKs in 1.6.

Like I said before, I think DKs could use a buff (stam whip would help DPS significantly), but I also think they're not as weak as some QQers say they are. There are some people who are just used to an overpowered class who won't admit they're not as good as they think they are. DKs are still viable, even if relatively weaker and not faceroll OP. The balance is better now than it was with faceroll OP DKs, but DKs could also use some buffs for balancing currently. A few tweaks could silence the DK QQers.

But we can't be so demanding that we want instantaneous change. It's not going to all happen once in one tidy update, it's going to take time.

RadioheadSh0t

As far as improvements for Magicka DKs, I think one of the biggest changes would be to buff GDB. I never thought i'd say that, given how strong it used to be, but it would help strengthen magicka DKs. I even run into Stamplars who can burst BoL, so GDB should be more viable than it is now:

I also think more DKs need to be open to replacing their S&b with a resto.

Firerock2

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

As far as improvements for Magicka DKs, I think one of the biggest changes would be to buff GDB. I never thought i'd say that, given how strong it used to be, but it would help strengthen magicka DKs. I even run into Stamplars who can burst BoL, so GDB should be more viable than it is now:

I also think more DKs need to be open to replacing their S&b with a resto.

BoL scales off Magicka so you have to be seeing some sort of hybrid build since it would heal for *** if you aren't stacked into Magicka.

RadioheadSh0t

Lord_Hev wrote: »

.

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Man, the DK QQ is a bit much...

They tell you they appreciate your points and give you a reasonable timeline, and you STILL QQ?

DK is not nearly as faceroll weak as it was faceroll strong... If you have to deal with a few months as a marginally worse class, it's a small price to pay for a class that was faceroll strong for quite a while.

Good to see you are enjoying your VR 16 NB. Go circle-jerk with the rest of the NB rerolls and quit trying to undermine the concerns of this thread.

ABCDEF... Guy...

So since I have more than one class I can't state my opinion? Actually, I'd think someone who has more experience with more classes has a more credible opinion.

So even though the first class I played in BETA was a nightblade, I'm just jumping on that bandwagon, right? I actually joked about why I wouldn't level my NB, because it'd be all if want to play, and guess what, it is. NB fits my playstyle, I'm not a NB just because it's strong (and new flash: it isn't as strong as you think it is).

IF you're trying to use the fact that I have 3/4 classes leveled against me, bravo, buddy...

PhatGrimReaper

Oh gum'on gents..... let's not turn this into one of those threads where everyone boasts about the incredible size of their ..... ego.

Xsorus

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

.

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Man, the DK QQ is a bit much...

They tell you they appreciate your points and give you a reasonable timeline, and you STILL QQ?

DK is not nearly as faceroll weak as it was faceroll strong... If you have to deal with a few months as a marginally worse class, it's a small price to pay for a class that was faceroll strong for quite a while.

Good to see you are enjoying your VR 16 NB. Go circle-jerk with the rest of the NB rerolls and quit trying to undermine the concerns of this thread.

ABCDEF... Guy...

So since I have more than one class I can't state my opinion? Actually, I'd think someone who has more experience with more classes has a more credible opinion.

So even though the first class I played in BETA was a nightblade, I'm just jumping on that bandwagon, right? I actually joked about why I wouldn't level my NB, because it'd be all if want to play, and guess what, it is. NB fits my playstyle, I'm not a NB just because it's strong (and new flash: it isn't as strong as you think it is).

IF you're trying to use the fact that I have 3/4 classes leveled against me, bravo, buddy...

He's saying that you telling dks to suck it up for a few months when they were subpar in 1.6 in comparsion to nbs, sorcs and templars and now 1.7 is rather foolish, since you are playing a class that has received nothing but buffs for a better part of a year when they didn't need them, this is coming from someone who switched over from a stamina dk to play a nightblade as well. Nightblades like sorcs shouldn't be telling any class to suck it up cause both classes have been over the top for most of the year.

Domander

hammayolettuce wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for providing your feedback, and to @Jules for a well-written list of concerns and proposed solutions; we’ve passed this thread along to the Dev team to review. In general, we will be focusing on fixing outstanding ability bugs in the next major update, in addition to supporting some new systems. Larger balance and ability improvements for Dragonknights and the other classes are planned for early next year.

@ZOS_GinaBruno if it is possible, please speak to the development team regarding a stamina morph of Lava Whip. Perhaps they were concerned about perma-blocking stamina-based Whip Spammers before, but perma-blocking is more or less a thing of the past. A DK friend of mine who hates playing as stamina because of the lack of DK stamina skills is basically forced into it, and I know a lot of another DK's feel this way. Perhaps something can be done to make DK's stamina based DoT's, Burning Breath and Unstable Flame, more viable in PvP as well, or in lieu of a stamina-based Lava Whip.

Just don't touch flame lash.

Joy_Division

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

.

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Man, the DK QQ is a bit much...

They tell you they appreciate your points and give you a reasonable timeline, and you STILL QQ?

DK is not nearly as faceroll weak as it was faceroll strong... If you have to deal with a few months as a marginally worse class, it's a small price to pay for a class that was faceroll strong for quite a while.

Good to see you are enjoying your VR 16 NB. Go circle-jerk with the rest of the NB rerolls and quit trying to undermine the concerns of this thread.

ABCDEF... Guy...

So since I have more than one class I can't state my opinion? Actually, I'd think someone who has more experience with more classes has a more credible opinion.

So even though the first class I played in BETA was a nightblade, I'm just jumping on that bandwagon, right? I actually joked about why I wouldn't level my NB, because it'd be all if want to play, and guess what, it is. NB fits my playstyle, I'm not a NB just because it's strong (and new flash: it isn't as strong as you think it is).

IF you're trying to use the fact that I have 3/4 classes leveled against me, bravo, buddy...

You always begin reasonable discussions by referring to the other participants as QQers?

I leveled all four classes. By your own admission I have a more credible opinion than you.

You are wrong.

Firerock2

Takllin wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Fruitdog wrote: »

Lol, you could reroll a different class and level it all the way to alliance rank 24 in 3 months time. Well maybe not all the way to 24 considering how dead Cyrodiil is lately.

@Takllin Time to bust out the ole Ring of Mara beb, I need another Templar.

Unfortunately my schedule is way too ridiculous or I'd take you up. I already cancelled on Jules to leveling together

Firerock2 wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Fruitdog wrote: »

Lol, you could reroll a different class and level it all the way to alliance rank 24 in 3 months time. Well maybe not all the way to 24 considering how dead Cyrodiil is lately.

@Takllin Time to bust out the ole Ring of Mara beb, I need another Templar.

Just as bad and maybe even worse on the stamina side of things, roll a Sorc and get an 11k shield that costs less than 3k magicka

Uhh wut? Absolutely false. Stamplar and Magicka Templar is in a great spot currently.

What exactly can a Stamplar do that a Stamina DK cannot? I'll tell you what they can't do, exchange Magicka for stamina.

Magicka Templars are pretty much in the same spot as Magicka DKs, their shields have the same *** scale off of health mechanic, they both have trouble with resource management, they can't burst damage, they are both tank classes that lack mobility so the stamina nerf to block greatly affects them. The only real difference between Temps and DKs ATM is that Temps can still use their Magicka heals (those are crappier too now though) however a reliable self heal isn't going to fix DKs or Temps. I could go on about how Magicka DKs get reflective scales while the Templars reflect works off of CC immunity and is single target, or I could compare the passives but that isn't the point. Both classes have been continually nerfed to the point where there is a noticeable difference between them and the "high burst high mobility" classes

Erm have you played either? I've played both for a long time, good friends with people that have as well. They are in a much better spot right now. Stamplar has insane DPS from Biting Jabs. Apparently you've never heard of Repentance, that scales off Stamina/Weapon Damage now as well...

Radiant Ward is still somewhat useful, and people need to stop trying to use Igneous Shield what it was not designed for. Templars absolutely do not have resource management issues, thanks to all of their channeled abilities which lend themselves much better to having high regen, plus repentance with the 10% regen boost.

Templars are much better off this update, I'm sorry that you can't see that.

A magicka Templar isn't in the same light as a Sorcerer or Nightblade, but they aren't in the spot that Magicka DK is.

*sigh*
I really wanted to keep on track with the DK buffs and all but I have to reply.

Biting jabs is a very good stamina morph. This is something that Stamplars have over any other Stamina class, however its damage is divided into 4 strikes that can be easily dodged. This alone makes it only situationally better than Wrecking Blow which puts all of its damage on 1 hit. If you land every Biting Jab then you will have insane DPS but you won't land all your hits unless you use it while your opponent is CC'd. If your opponent hasn't broken out of a CC to avoid what's coming next then it's probably better to just spam Wrecking Blow again and keep them CC locked. Try to remember that Biting Jabs also gives out free CC immunity so it would break any CC you have on your opponent and it would prevent you from using anymore. Overall its not much of a DPS increase due to its partitioning of damage and CC immunity.

I've heard of and used repentance. It's a skill that absorbs the remaining life force of dead bodies (ironic) and gives back free Stam and health. This skill can be incredibly useful but at the same!e time incredibly useless. If there are no dead bodies around this skill will give back no Stam or health and in small scale battles this tends to be the case. Bring this down to the smallest scale (1v1) and there pretty much is no point in slotting repentance at all. It does give a nice increase to regen (10%) but that is at the cost of a skill slot which doesn't seem worth it. Overall, this skill falls behind any other Stam return in small scale PvP because its not a reliable way to return Stam when you need it the most.

Radiant Ward is fairly similar to Igneous shields in terms of strength. Let's say a Templar has 25000 health. That equates to a base shield of 4k. If you are surrounded by 6 people then the ward will scale to 5200. An increase of 1.2k is supposed to protect you from 6 people? Granted you can shield stack but so can DKs, they would just have a shield 1.2k less than that of a Templar. If you think a shield that is 1.2k greater than a DKs shield only when surrounded by 6 people is truly a great advantage that Templars have then I really don't see how I can get through to you.

I don't see how you can put Igneous shields below Radiant Ward. Yes Igneous shields has the potential to be slightly less than Radiant Ward but Igneous Shields grants a 30% to all healing done by you. This means for Stamina DKs this skill will buff Vigor and Rally. Meanwhile the Templar's 30% increase from Cleansing Ritual only scales for the Restoring Light tree. This means that Stamina DKs get a 30% increase to Stamina heals while Stamina Templar's do not. On top of this Igneous Shields returns 5% Stamina back with each cast and depending on your build you can get 15-25% of your Stamina back if you spam this ability. While this may be slightly less than the Stamina return from Repentance, it is far more reliable and doesn't lose its viability as you go into smaller and smaller fights.

I really have to ask you how somebody uses Igneous shields for something that it wasn't designed for? I mean if the skill says it has some sort of property and it shows that property once activated then I think that's what the devs designed it to do, or do you just know better?

As far as I can see people use Igneous Shields for 3 things, protection, Stam return, and increased healing. Two out of three things that Igneous shield can do requires Templar's to slot two skills while DKs only have to slot 1 and that 30% increased healing for Stam heals? Templar's don't get it. It's funny that Templar's are actually worse healers when it comes to Stamina since their class is supposed to be the "support". As of now Stamina DKs are fairing better than Stamina Templar's due to their utility and better synergies within the class. Stam Templar's aren't unplayable but don't kid yourself, they aren't on the same level as Stam DKs.

Finally, Green Dragons Blood represents a problem for Stamina DKs. Right now, due to the health scaling feature of this skill it can also be utilized by Stamina DKs. I know GDB on its own isn't any good but combining it with Vigor gives a great initial burst and then a strong HoT. This is again something Stamina Templar's lack, their heal scales off of Magicka and is utter rubbish for a Stam build. This puts Stamina Templars behind in healing even further and if GDB is buffes while maintaining the health scaling feature this may lead to a serious imbalancw between classes.

How was it that you came to the conclusion that Stam Temps are better than Stam DK's?

Flip side
Magicka Temps are above Magicka DKs due to the lack of a viable self heal for DKs but they aren't that much better.

BoL heals for a base of 1.1k (without the Battle Spirit) and scales up with Magicka and Spell Damage.

In Cyrodiil with 32k max Magicka and 2400 Spell Damage buffed my base heal is about 4.5k. If I Stand in a circle of protection (30% increase of heals) then it reaches about 5.8k. Now BoL can crit and it does this especially at low health. My BoL crits for around 8.3kk and with v16 gear I'm sure it could crit for 10k. This is the current strength of the Magicka Templar's. Unfortunately I am unable to do any testing with GDB so all I can say is what everyone else has said, it sucks but I imagine some people manage to use it.

Other than a self heal there is really nothing that Temps have that DKs do not. DKs have a better reflect, a better armour buff skill that doesn't require you to stay in a circle, superior crowd control, and arguably better ultimates.

Magicka Templar's do have Radiant Destruction but that skill is roll dodge able now which kind of makes it pointless against an experienced player.

Channeled focus is a great Magicka restore skill I'll give you that but it's armour buff is lackluster since you can't move around.

Please tell me besides the self heal what do Templar's have that make them so much superior to Magicka DKs?
These classes are similar in design and therefore experience some of the same problems. Buffing GDB isn't going to put magicka DKs on par with Sorcs or Nightblades. These classes needs skills that give out miss chances and they need their shields to scale back to 30% of max health in Cyrodiil.

So far in this update I see Stamina DKs being ahead of Stamina Templars and Magicka Templar's being ahead of Magicka DKs. Both are still at the bottom of the pile though and balancing for both classes is needed.

If you have any other skills you want to suggest and compare please do, although I'd appreciate a less disdainful tone. Thanks.

Sorry for any typos or syntax errors, I'm on a phone and its really hard to keep track of it all.

Lord_Hev

vortexman11 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for providing your feedback, and to @Jules for a well-written list of concerns and proposed solutions; we’ve passed this thread along to the Dev team to review. In general, we will be focusing on fixing outstanding ability bugs in the next major update, in addition to supporting some new systems.Larger balance and ability improvements for Dragonknights and the other classes are planned for early next year.

So....does this mean we've got 4 months to "enjoy" 1.7 then you're going to completely rebalance the game again forcing everyone to redo all their builds and ruining it in another completely different and unexpected way? Great! Thank you for the confirmation that I shouldn't spend any gold on gear because it will be completely overhauled....again.

Can you not just make small balance changes in each incremental patch? Why must you guys rebalance EVERYTHING then wait another 4-5 months and rebalance EVERYTHING again. 1.6 would of been great if you fixed bugs, but instead you chose to rebalance EVERYTHING all over again. 1.5 would of been great if you tweaked the way a few skills and passives worked, but instead you decided to rebalance it again. Each time you guys do one of your beautiful rebalances more and more PvPers leave this game. Look, I know you guys care very little about your PvP community, but stop with the large scale rebalancing and start tweaking the game until it reaches the perfection it could of reached months ago.

Yes! All of ZOS needs to see this post...





@ZOS_AndyC @ZOS_Abdu @ZOS_AidanF @ZOS_AJ @ZOS_AjanJ @ZOS_BPerry @ZOS_BasileA @ZOS_BillMueller @ZOS_BobE @ZOS_BoydBeasley @ZOS_ChesterN @ZOS_CaitlinR @ZOS_CatK @ZOS_CharlieH @ZOS_Dan @ZOS_DanDunham @ZOS_DavidGee @ZOS_DavidH @ZOS_DavidP @ZOS_EdLynch @ZOS_EmilyM @ZOS_Emma @ZOS_EugeneB @ZOS_EveP @ZOS_FelixP @ZOS_Finn @ZOS_GabrielleA @ZOS_GaryA @ZOS_Gideon @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Heather @ZOS_HeatherB @ZOS_HugoP @ZOS_JoBurba @ZOS_JamesO @ZOS_JanS @ZOS_JaredR @ZOS_JasonB @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_KaleyR @ZOS_Karli @ZOS_Katarina @ZOS_Kelly @ZOS_LenaicR @ZOS_LeroyW @ZOS_LodieA @ZOS_LonnyL @ZOS_LucasA @ZOS_MaxG @ZOS_MaggieS @ZOS_NickKonkle @ZOS_NinaM @ZOS_Olivier @ZOS_PaulSage @ZOS_QuinnC @ZOS_RobertCordero @ZOS_RebeccaE @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_ShannonM @ZOS_ThaliaH @ZOS_ThomasK @ZOS_UlyssesW @ZOS_VaughanP @ZOS_Wolfram @ZOS_YigaelK



Literally, ALL of ZOS. Read this man's post. Give him a medal. And heed his wise words very carefully.

JDar

Takllin wrote: »

JDar wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

JDar wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for providing your feedback, and to @Jules for a well-written list of concerns and proposed solutions; we’ve passed this thread along to the Dev team to review. In general, we will be focusing on fixing outstanding ability bugs in the next major update, in addition to supporting some new systems. Larger balance and ability improvements for Dragonknights and the other classes are planned for early next year.

@ZOS_GinaBruno if it is possible, please speak to the development team regarding a stamina morph of Lava Whip. Perhaps they were concerned about perma-blocking stamina-based Whip Spammers before, but perma-blocking is more or less a thing of the past. A DK friend of mine who hates playing as stamina because of the lack of DK stamina skills is basically forced into it, and I know a lot of another DK's feel this way. Perhaps something can be done to make DK's stamina based DoT's, Burning Breath and Unstable Flame, more viable in PvP as well, or in lieu of a stamina-based Lava Whip.

As soon as I get magicka-based weapon skills you can have everything you asked for.

Yes. Because class skills ought to only be available to magicka builds! It's not like ZoS already made stamina morphs of such skills as veiled strike or puncturing strikes or anything.

If you want to use class abilities, why don't you just make a magicka build? I know the answer: it's because you want all the benefits of magical abilities and weapon abilities with none of the drawbacks. Just doesn't seem fair to magicka users.

Dude I used to have some respect for you, but it's been gone for a while now. Stop intentionally being obtuse.

Magicka users have weapon abilities too. Cut the crap.

Ok you got me. I don't think of staves as weapons. I guess technically they still are. I was talking about 2 hand and dual wield primarily. They do the most damage in the game outside of proxy det and stamina users still want more. They also want to cast magicka spells without having magic. What's next? Stamina based versions of mage's guild abilities? It doesn't make sense. Maybe that's because I am obtuse. Or I think that adhering to in game lore is important.

But I am glad you don't have respect for me because that makes things equal between us now. I never had respect for you. You deserved to be kicked from misfitz for sitting out on a siege to save up for a stupid ring. You are lucky we didn't. What a pathetic excuse for a guild mate.

JDar

hammayolettuce wrote: »

JDar wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

JDar wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for providing your feedback, and to @Jules for a well-written list of concerns and proposed solutions; we’ve passed this thread along to the Dev team to review. In general, we will be focusing on fixing outstanding ability bugs in the next major update, in addition to supporting some new systems. Larger balance and ability improvements for Dragonknights and the other classes are planned for early next year.

@ZOS_GinaBruno if it is possible, please speak to the development team regarding a stamina morph of Lava Whip. Perhaps they were concerned about perma-blocking stamina-based Whip Spammers before, but perma-blocking is more or less a thing of the past. A DK friend of mine who hates playing as stamina because of the lack of DK stamina skills is basically forced into it, and I know a lot of another DK's feel this way. Perhaps something can be done to make DK's stamina based DoT's, Burning Breath and Unstable Flame, more viable in PvP as well, or in lieu of a stamina-based Lava Whip.

As soon as I get magicka-based weapon skills you can have everything you asked for.

Yes. Because class skills ought to only be available to magicka builds! It's not like ZoS already made stamina morphs of such skills as veiled strike or puncturing strikes or anything.

If you want to use class abilities, why don't you just make a magicka build? I know the answer: it's because you want all the benefits of magical abilities and weapon abilities with none of the drawbacks. Just doesn't seem fair to magicka users.

Yeah. There are definitely no useful skills at all midst the weapon skill lines. I mean Healing Ward is down right useless ... even atrocious. Healing springs, blessing of restoration, force pulse, impulse, destructive clench ... definitely never used or useful.

My point was that you are asking for things to be stamina that aren't justifiably stamina. Teklin missed the point too although he is young and much is lost on him. It doesn't take a lot of force to crack a whip. You can't exert force and cause fire to come out of your mouth. Do you see where I'm going here?

I'm done with this thread it's terrible GL dragonknights

bertenburnyb16_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for providing your feedback, and to @Jules for a well-written list of concerns and proposed solutions; we’ve passed this thread along to the Dev team to review. In general, we will be focusing on fixing outstanding ability bugs in the next major update, in addition to supporting some new systems. Larger balance and ability improvements for Dragonknights and the other classes are planned for early next year.

so the next half year DK's will be crap ... greath..
why always with the big changes that a. take forever to implement and b. change the combat meta completely
what happend to little tweaks and adjustments wich a. can be implemented much quicker and b. gradually evolve all classes to a good state

also: @ZOS_GinaBruno

please let the devs look into something like this

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

agreed, tnx for nerfing DKs into to ground zeni -_-
I got a templar end lvl and is now in a much better place (for being the underdog before) and am currently lvlng a NB

on a sidenote though
about the mag/stam morphs of class skills => remove this BS, it just pidgeonholes people into certain skills giving them no options
what they SHOULD HAVE DONE is make those class skills scale of the highest stats like ultis were made (so only the ones now with mag/stam morph) so the player still has a choise wich morph to take, unstalbe flame/burning embers is the perfect example, as a mag player, unstable is useless since it scales of stam/Wdam and burning has lower damage and a heal, so no high dam dot for mag users, as stam player u can the high dot of unstable, but u cant use the heal dot of burning since it will be way low
so give both mag and stam users the choise of both morphs pls

Ryuho

I agree with most said above. Magicka DK is "so so". Comparing to other magicka classes imo atm is the weakest of all of them. Lack of viable self heal (srry GDB is now trash if u not spec into healing done/received), weak dots which not go tru shields/block, zero mobility.. Well naturally u can spec full spell powa and max flame dmg with CP, but ur survibality will be almost 0 - I ve nuked yesterday light armor DK with one rotation - lotus/conc/soul harvest less then 2s and it was not sneak attack.. Definitly magicka DK need some love!

As for stamina DK, I think stamina DKs are beasts.. Great synergy with DK passives, u can esly play as full heavy armor and still get incredible dmg, its amazing! Can't wait to get grab on better gear to rekt ppls in pvp as stamina tank, unfortunately gearing all toons take some time

To sum up - Magicka DKs - @ZOS give them some love seriously! As for stamina DKs, they are good like now. Ideas like giving stamina whip are not needed, cause imo such things would kill Magicka DKs completly..

Yonkit

Lord_Hev wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for providing your feedback, and to @Jules for a well-written list of concerns and proposed solutions; we’ve passed this thread along to the Dev team to review. In general, we will be focusing on fixing outstanding ability bugs in the next major update, in addition to supporting some new systems.Larger balance and ability improvements for Dragonknights and the other classes are planned for early next year.

So....does this mean we've got 4 months to "enjoy" 1.7 then you're going to completely rebalance the game again forcing everyone to redo all their builds and ruining it in another completely different and unexpected way? Great! Thank you for the confirmation that I shouldn't spend any gold on gear because it will be completely overhauled....again.

Can you not just make small balance changes in each incremental patch? Why must you guys rebalance EVERYTHING then wait another 4-5 months and rebalance EVERYTHING again. 1.6 would of been great if you fixed bugs, but instead you chose to rebalance EVERYTHING all over again. 1.5 would of been great if you tweaked the way a few skills and passives worked, but instead you decided to rebalance it again. Each time you guys do one of your beautiful rebalances more and more PvPers leave this game. Look, I know you guys care very little about your PvP community, but stop with the large scale rebalancing and start tweaking the game until it reaches the perfection it could of reached months ago.

Yes! All of ZOS needs to see this post...

@ZOS_AndyC @ZOS_Abdu @ZOS_AidanF @ZOS_AJ @ZOS_AjanJ @ZOS_BPerry @ZOS_BasileA @ZOS_BillMueller @ZOS_BobE @ZOS_BoydBeasley @ZOS_ChesterN @ZOS_CaitlinR @ZOS_CatK @ZOS_CharlieH @ZOS_Dan @ZOS_DanDunham @ZOS_DavidGee @ZOS_DavidH @ZOS_DavidP @ZOS_EdLynch @ZOS_EmilyM @ZOS_Emma @ZOS_EugeneB @ZOS_EveP @ZOS_FelixP @ZOS_Finn @ZOS_GabrielleA @ZOS_GaryA @ZOS_Gideon @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Heather @ZOS_HeatherB @ZOS_HugoP @ZOS_JoBurba @ZOS_JamesO @ZOS_JanS @ZOS_JaredR @ZOS_JasonB @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_KaleyR @ZOS_Karli @ZOS_Katarina @ZOS_Kelly @ZOS_LenaicR @ZOS_LeroyW @ZOS_LodieA @ZOS_LonnyL @ZOS_LucasA @ZOS_MaxG @ZOS_MaggieS @ZOS_NickKonkle @ZOS_NinaM @ZOS_Olivier @ZOS_PaulSage @ZOS_QuinnC @ZOS_RobertCordero @ZOS_RebeccaE @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_ShannonM @ZOS_ThaliaH @ZOS_ThomasK @ZOS_UlyssesW @ZOS_VaughanP @ZOS_Wolfram @ZOS_YigaelK

Literally, ALL of ZOS. Read this man's post. Give him a medal. And heed his wise words very carefully.

Quoted for truth.

Yuke

wow, i cant believe that ZoS couldnt withstand the tears storm...

just *** wait until they remove the talons nerf and magicka dk will be good again...


Cloak and Breath of Life are the two things that have to be tweaked rightnow...

:edit:

GDB needs a buff ofc.

Domander

Yuke wrote: »

wow, i cant believe that ZoS couldnt withstand the tears storm...

just *** wait until they remove the talons nerf and magicka dk will be good again...


Cloak and Breath of Life are the two things that have to be tweaked rightnow...

:edit:

GDB needs a buff ofc.

I think dragon blood should be changed so that it is able to crit.

aco5712

Domander wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

wow, i cant believe that ZoS couldnt withstand the tears storm...

just *** wait until they remove the talons nerf and magicka dk will be good again...


Cloak and Breath of Life are the two things that have to be tweaked rightnow...

:edit:

GDB needs a buff ofc.

I think dragon blood should be changed so that it is able to crit.

rather it do the 33% and not crit.

Master_Kas

Agree with alot of stuff posted here. Things I miss most on my dragonknight are:

Miss chance from cinder storm
Dynamic ulti gain

And a magicka gapcloser (not chains, they are just bad).

Well maybe next year-.-

Domander

aco5712 wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

wow, i cant believe that ZoS couldnt withstand the tears storm...

just *** wait until they remove the talons nerf and magicka dk will be good again...


Cloak and Breath of Life are the two things that have to be tweaked rightnow...

:edit:

GDB needs a buff ofc.

I think dragon blood should be changed so that it is able to crit.

rather it do the 33% and not crit.

well, sure, but that's not going to happen with the current battle spirit.

Ishammael

Since we won't get balance changes till next year, here are some small change which would help:
1. GDB back to 33%
2. Major Evasion or Minor Evasion for Ash Cloud
3. Major or Minor Heroism to Inferno
4. One chains morph pulls enemies to you (grants CC immunity) and one pulls you to the enemy (no CC immunity)

bertenburnyb16_ESO

Ishammael wrote: »

Since we won't get balance changes till next year, here are some small change which would help:
1. GDB back to 33%
2. Major Evasion or Minor Evasion for Ash Cloud
3. Major or Minor Heroism to Inferno
4. One chains morph pulls enemies to you (grants CC immunity) and one pulls you to the enemy (no CC immunity)

this + upping some Dots here and there yes please
and on a personal note, I do mis Cinderstorm with the miss chance, eruption now just doenst feel the same

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

Three month for a "balancing update"? The last half year showed you gyus at ZOS don't even have an IDEA or a plan on how to balance this game. Just changing the core game and hoping for the best is ***.

This is beyond ridiculous for an AAA game.

ZOS_GinaBruno

To be clear, we don't have plans to completely rebalance and rework classes like we did back in Update 6. The next update will contain mainly bug fixes, and the update after that will have adjustments and tweaks to the classes.

asneakybanana

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for providing your feedback, and to @Jules for a well-written list of concerns and proposed solutions; we’ve passed this thread along to the Dev team to review. In general, we will be focusing on fixing outstanding ability bugs in the next major update, in addition to supporting some new systems. Larger balance and ability improvements for Dragonknights and the other classes are planned for early next year.

@ZOS_GinaBruno if it is possible, please speak to the development team regarding a stamina morph of Lava Whip. Perhaps they were concerned about perma-blocking stamina-based Whip Spammers before, but perma-blocking is more or less a thing of the past. A DK friend of mine who hates playing as stamina because of the lack of DK stamina skills is basically forced into it, and I know a lot of another DK's feel this way. Perhaps something can be done to make DK's stamina based DoT's, Burning Breath and Unstable Flame, more viable in PvP as well, or in lieu of a stamina-based Lava Whip.

Please no unless you make wrecking blow bashable. If you make a stam version of whip all people are going to do is hit you with wb and the spam whip on you while you're cc'd. Power bash and wb combo is already good enough as it is.

Talos forbid people actually have access to good skills that work well together. That might make the game fun to play!

I mean like I said I have no problem with skills working well together. But the wb cheese spam is bad enough. Adding a combo to it would just make it dumb. Make a good counter to like bash and interrupt and I'm more than happy to see stam whip morph.

It's very easy to interrupt uppercut's cast with just strafing or roll dodging through said uppercutter. The uppercutter is also forced to complete the animation until a certain point or else a block or dodge will interrupt it ... so fossilize, mass hysteria, that spear toss or whatever, are direct counters if one is fast enough. Wrecking blow + lava whip is not insurmountable at all. In fact it might be a bit of a waste of a slot to have both on one's bar.

Yes those work great once. If people could only cast wb once every 4s I would have no problem because I could just dodge it over and overover. But as it stands with them castingcasting over and over and over again where they gain cc immunity and then dodging through them begins to cost too much with the new changes. It just makes no sense to leave wb as it is and add in another skill to combo off it. Would love to see wb go away all together and have people just spamming whip instead. But, I doubt that's ever going to be the case

Can NBs not do the same thing as a Stam whip with surprise attack?

Can Stamplars not WB you and then spam jabs?


Sorry, I don't follow that logic.

Stam whip would essentially be no different than surprise attack weaving. That's what Stam DK is missing, a weaving melee attack.

Nbs do do the same thing and its ***. Templar don't really need to with the jabs built in cc. Also pretty easy to weave waif wb if you know what you're doing.

Azarath_tiberius

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be clear, we don't have plans to completely rebalance and rework classes like we did back in Update 6. The next update will contain mainly bug fixes, and the update after that will have adjustments and tweaks to the classes.

Meaning the DLC after Orsinium or what exactly?

_Chaos

Azarath_tiberius wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be clear, we don't have plans to completely rebalance and rework classes like we did back in Update 6. The next update will contain mainly bug fixes, and the update after that will have adjustments and tweaks to the classes.

Meaning the DLC after Orsinium or what exactly?

Yup, thats the update after next.

TLDR - We won't have balance changes for 5 more months.

Laggus

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be clear, we don't have plans to completely rebalance and rework classes like we did back in Update 6. The next update will contain mainly bug fixes, and the update after that will have adjustments and tweaks to the classes.

Well at least we know you know DKs need some love but that love aint coming for months and months..um thanks I think.

Takllin

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Azarath_tiberius wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be clear, we don't have plans to completely rebalance and rework classes like we did back in Update 6. The next update will contain mainly bug fixes, and the update after that will have adjustments and tweaks to the classes.

Meaning the DLC after Orsinium or what exactly?

Yup, thats the update after next.

TLDR - We won't have balance changes for 5 more months.

Yeah Dark Brotherhood or the other thing they mentioned. So unless they do a special update, Q1 of 2016.