1vShield Breaker + Many more enemies

Takes-No-Prisoner

Ezareth wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Thanks for the info man, I've not really ever looked at raising my stam outside of the champion system. I'm noticing that generally trade-offs are a bit easier in this latest patch. 1.6 was go all out damage or lose.

In my endless quest to science my own science to improve my science, I agree with ToRelax. I too must say, that I have put 40 points into Stamina regain for CP, and 57 into Mana regain for CP. Plus use 1 medium armor piece + passives, and its actually super helpful having 15k stamina and 800 regain as a Mana focused Templar. Though I am on console for the moment, from what ToRelax says sounds like my set up above will be a lot better in the next patch. So yes, it is definitely worth investing early for the CP buffs but also the equipment as well.

CPs are reset with patch so no need to "invest" early. Also if you're a werewolf you're going to lose that stam regen, if you're using drink it will no longer multiply with CP passives, if you were emp you'll lose the passives, any racial stam passives becomes additive instead of multiplicative etc.

Stam recovery is nerfed almost any way you look at it in 2.1.

I am a werewolf but never used the skill line enough. I'm not to worried about the nerf to the passive. CP points however, I believe I am comfortable with those placement choices. Never had emp buffs and drink -- well I have only one CP passive unlocked that turns on when I drink a pot. But I drink pots for the spell dmg/crit... so I take all of it with a grain of salt. Once the patch drops on consoles it will be a field day for me. I will find some way to give me a small boost.

Xsorus

Ezareth wrote: »

Cinn and I were fighting a Sorc/Sap Tank NB combo last night and they killed us a few times by going hard for Cinn the whole time. 5 minute fights with 2800 Weapon damage using a 2handed sword and non-stop wrecking blow spam to the order of several hundred times and couldn't burst through the sorcs shield(mixing other abilities in as needed obviously). He's not going to run out of magicka and not going to run out of stamina. I fought Germantrocity 2 on 1 the other night and wrecking blowed him 300-400 times and landed every one but couldn't burst his shields either and he only has 121 CPs. He didn't die until a third player joined us.

I'm trying real hard not to use this cheezeball set because it's an inelegant solution but if it takes 2-3 good players to do the damage required to take down a good sorc then I'm not seeing an alternative. In the end it all comes down to math. If I can't do more damage in 1GCD than the sorc can in in the 1GCD it costs him to cast a shield I'm never going to kill him.

Been telling you this for months

Ezareth

Alcast wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I'd make it take a percentage of total shield strength, so it doesn't make small shields useless...

Yep, called it.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

The best way would be for this set's damage to hit the Wards instead of the HP and scale with the size of the Wards. For example 35% of the ward's value is added on top.

For example if you have a small 5k shield the set will hit ~1.7k extra damage on your shields. Still good DPS boost. If you have stacked a Hardened Ward and Healing Ward and Barrier and have a 30k shield, the set will add ~10k damage on the wards for that first hit.

This will not fix the issue. Then people simply can continue spamming shields without any issue?

I am still for a Minor/Major shield fix.

Shield "Stacking" has never been the problem. I really don't understand why people continue to think that would solve anything.

Shieldspamming, not stacking, spamming is a problem and that is what i said.

So how would a Major/Minor shield solution change that. From what I've heard of that, is it would allow shields like Harness, Healing Ward, Hardened Ward to overwrite each other. This wouldn't change anything really.

Ezareth

Sharee wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Thanks for the info man, I've not really ever looked at raising my stam outside of the champion system. I'm noticing that generally trade-offs are a bit easier in this latest patch. 1.6 was go all out damage or lose.

In my endless quest to science my own science to improve my science, I agree with ToRelax. I too must say, that I have put 40 points into Stamina regain for CP, and 57 into Mana regain for CP. Plus use 1 medium armor piece + passives, and its actually super helpful having 15k stamina and 800 regain as a Mana focused Templar. Though I am on console for the moment, from what ToRelax says sounds like my set up above will be a lot better in the next patch. So yes, it is definitely worth investing early for the CP buffs but also the equipment as well.

CPs are reset with patch so no need to "invest" early. Also if you're a werewolf you're going to lose that stam regen, if you're using drink it will no longer multiply with CP passives, if you were emp you'll lose the passives, any racial stam passives becomes additive instead of multiplicative etc.

Stam recovery is nerfed almost any way you look at it in 2.1.

Well there are some exceptions. Serpent now provides stamina regen, and regen jewelry enchants have twice the power.

Sure but those have large tradeoffs. A Stamina regen enchant on a sorc would probably not be wise, nor would using Serpent. Each of those options has a significant tradeoff where as acquiring 900 stamina regen on a sorc really doesn't require many tradeoffs if you're built properly.

LegendaryChef

Me when people hate on sorcs

Domander

Alucardo wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

Stacking my shield? No matter what shield i use i will still take this damage, so you are saying i should be punished anyway?

Yes. Being a sorcerer you should learn to deal with not using shields, wearing light armour and limit your blocking because of your small stamina reserves and no regen whilst blocking. It sounds fair, right?

That is all under your control.

Sharee wrote: »

I am sure if you kept constructing a niche specialized scenarios long enough, you will eventually come up with one where having a shield against shieldbreaker is worse than not having a shield. But even then for the vast majority of commonly encountered scenarios in PvP, anytime a shieldbreaker would kill you through a shield, a normal ability would kill you without it just as well. This set's effectiveness is blown out of proportion for typical PvP encounters. It is only a gamechanger for players used to running with minimal hitpoints while being untouchable behind a shield at all times.

This

Nivzruo_ESO

Lolol, sorcs mad they not godmode no more. You have to be bad to let someone light attack you 10 times and no heal or los or anything really.

Jaronking

LegendaryChef wrote: »

I don't even think i have to say anything.

Maybe you should follow the hint add points to health it will increase your survivability and this won't happen so many times.

Derra

Domander wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

Stacking my shield? No matter what shield i use i will still take this damage, so you are saying i should be punished anyway?

Yes. Being a sorcerer you should learn to deal with not using shields, wearing light armour and limit your blocking because of your small stamina reserves and no regen whilst blocking. It sounds fair, right?

That is all under your control.

Sharee wrote: »

I am sure if you kept constructing a niche specialized scenarios long enough, you will eventually come up with one where having a shield against shieldbreaker is worse than not having a shield. But even then for the vast majority of commonly encountered scenarios in PvP, anytime a shieldbreaker would kill you through a shield, a normal ability would kill you without it just as well. This set's effectiveness is blown out of proportion for typical PvP encounters. It is only a gamechanger for players used to running with minimal hitpoints while being untouchable behind a shield at all times.

This

As already stated: This is the case for any build using harness magica encountering a player with shieldbreaker.

Ezareth

Xsorus wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Cinn and I were fighting a Sorc/Sap Tank NB combo last night and they killed us a few times by going hard for Cinn the whole time. 5 minute fights with 2800 Weapon damage using a 2handed sword and non-stop wrecking blow spam to the order of several hundred times and couldn't burst through the sorcs shield(mixing other abilities in as needed obviously). He's not going to run out of magicka and not going to run out of stamina. I fought Germantrocity 2 on 1 the other night and wrecking blowed him 300-400 times and landed every one but couldn't burst his shields either and he only has 121 CPs. He didn't die until a third player joined us.

I'm trying real hard not to use this cheezeball set because it's an inelegant solution but if it takes 2-3 good players to do the damage required to take down a good sorc then I'm not seeing an alternative. In the end it all comes down to math. If I can't do more damage in 1GCD than the sorc can in in the 1GCD it costs him to cast a shield I'm never going to kill him.

Been telling you this for months

My sorc almost always lost his hardened ward in a single wrecking blow too. I know a couple of players who would kill me with 2 wrecking blows in a row unless I executed some defensive abilities. I also never did the cheeseball max magicka at the expense of all else builds like others. In 1.5 I ran softcap hitpoints and softcap magicka and once I hit softcaps allocated stats elsewhere. In 1.6 I ran max magicka but with drink and my (single) Mundus was Apprentice not mage. I had 28K-29K Magicka not 40-45K Magicka like some of these guys had. Big difference in playstyle and weaknesses. I often had to actually *block* or *dodge* roll wrecking blows because I'd be dead otherwise. This is also why I ran triple *stam* cost reduction.

Still in 1.6 there were plenty of people running around with an absolutely ridiculous amount of weapon damage who could still burst shields. I've always favored a well rounded build to a glass cannon.

LegendaryChef

Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »

Lolol, sorcs mad they not godmode no more. You have to be bad to let someone light attack you 10 times and no heal or los or anything really.

If you want to look again at the scene behind the death recap, you can VERY clearly see a number of players (+ more you cannot see) there that i was trying to escape from, the fight started with only a few on me and then the rest came and so i tried to escape. I did heal and also shielded myself to counter any further damage and it just was not enough.

As i had said previously, I have encountered numerous people 1v1 wearing the set and almost all of them will die easily.

I would be more than happy to watch your footage of being in my situation getting spammed by a weighted bow, oh wait you weren't there... and you play NB, i'm sure they would struggle hitting you considering you can make yourself vanish into thin air.

Could have known straight away that this reply was from a NB, now if u will, use that new OP cloak and disappear please before you display anymore of your immaturity.

LegendaryChef

Ezareth wrote: »

I had 28K-29K Magicka not 40-45K Magicka like some of these guys had.

I don't know anyone who had that kind of magicka unless they were running a pet build with the set that gives you a load of magicka for pets being active and even at, that these players were VERY rare to come across and often were pretty useless in pvp.

Maulkin

Sharee wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

If you are so low on health that the pitiful damage from shieldbreaker kills you, then you would not be able to survive a real damage skill without the shield, no matter what armor and resists you have.

I'm sorry, but WTAF? So, so, so, short-sighted it's unreal.

First off, the damage is not pitiful at all. 2.3k on legendary v16 set, is as much as my crushing shock tooltip

And how effective would you be at killing someone if you tried to do it with nothing but crushing shock?. Not very effective. You would probably fail to kill him unless he was afk.

Thus, pitiful damage.

What's the point of this comment? Did you just cherry pick the first paragraph and respond to that? Where's your response to the rest of the comment?

It was just a long-winded whine about how sorcerers have no heals. I responded to the part that actually was about shield breaker.

No, it was a long winded post about how there are no defence mechanics to counter it. Heals is only one of them.

Sharee wrote: »

I know about it enough to tell shieldbreaker spam is only a problem for those unwilling to adapt. I have one of every class, by the way.

Well why didn't you say so? So how do you cope with the pressure from shield breaker, while staying in the fight? Enlighten us mortals.

Asmael

What counters do you have as a sorc against shieldbreaker?
- Blocking? Nah
- Shields (stacking or not)? Please...
- Dodge rolling? Good luck with your stam... Ah, you're already out of stamina
- Mitigation / Heavy armor? Nope.
- Getting extra HP? Well, even 6k extra health is 3 more hits. Takes less than 2 seconds to deal that much with the set.
- Healing: the ONLY valid one

And if you tell me "don't cast shields at all"... Please go play a sorc in light armor without casting shields. Please do.

Ezareth

LegendaryChef wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I had 28K-29K Magicka not 40-45K Magicka like some of these guys had.

I don't know anyone who had that kind of magicka unless they were running a pet build with the set that gives you a load of magicka for pets being active and even at, that these players were VERY rare to come across and often were pretty useless in pvp.

Well high end for sure but if you ever tried taking on Meth even as non-emp "pretty useless" isn't something that would cross your mind.

Bolterity was running 45K magicka with his pet build and I'd rather fight a zerg of bads than that mess.

Even 35K magicka would give you a 16K Hardened Ward with Max Bastion in 1.6. There were few abilities that could touch that non-crit in 1.6 without being boosted to hell with empower etc.

k2blader

Lucky28 wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Its such a *** set, removes skill from the equation and the game becomes PRO itemization. Way to go zos, way to go...:(

because shield stacking makes you a pro? .... right

Because cloak makes you a pro, Because Scales makes you a pro, because CC makes you a pro. Get out of here with that nonsense.

Taking out a sorc with superior DPS and excellent timing is skill. This set has nothing to do with skill.

QFT.

Personally I'm amazed by these folks who support such a no-skill set. I thought some of them were good players, at least based on how boastful they seem, but to get behind this set with the ridiculous justifications put forth is indication of the opposite.

Ezareth

k2blader wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Its such a *** set, removes skill from the equation and the game becomes PRO itemization. Way to go zos, way to go...:(

because shield stacking makes you a pro? .... right

Because cloak makes you a pro, Because Scales makes you a pro, because CC makes you a pro. Get out of here with that nonsense.

Taking out a sorc with superior DPS and excellent timing is skill. This set has nothing to do with skill.

QFT.

Personally I'm amazed by these folks who support such a no-skill set. I thought some of them were good players, at least based on how boastful they seem, but to get behind this set with the ridiculous justifications put forth is indication of the opposite.

Yeah it's a garbage solution to a real problem. The only reason people are supporting it is because they're just salty or biased as hell.

nothing2591

remove this set asap or i quit the game, own everything in the crownstore but wont spend a dime if this set doesnt GTFO

LegendaryChef

Ezareth wrote: »

Well high end for sure but if you ever tried taking on Meth even as non-emp "pretty useless" isn't something that would cross your mind.

Bolterity was running 45K magicka with his pet build and I'd rather fight a zerg of bads than that mess.

Even 35K magicka would give you a 16K Hardened Ward with Max Bastion in 1.6. There were few abilities that could touch that non-crit in 1.6 without being boosted to hell with empower etc.

I haven't had the pleasure to fight them yet as i play on the EU server but I can safely say that it is extremely rare to come across a sorc using this build and is actually effective with it. I did also say in my post that these sorcs "often were pretty useless" and I did not say all of them.

k2blader

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Played my sorc for a bit yesterday. Did not have too much issue dealing with some yahoo running shield-breaker on me.(in a group to meat-shield him no less) My mutagen ticks helped mitigate some of the pressure, along with me focusing them and forcing them to actually press other buttons on their keyboard.


The issue I foresee arising... is 2+ yahoos running this set at once and spamming weighted light attacks. This goes beyond a sorc issue. Any magic build that relies on heal ward as a self-heal(Everyone... except templars) will have no counter to 2+ shield-breaker users focusing them at once with machine gun weighted light attacks. Light armor DKs "would"(hence the would please) be able to counter them, if Dragonblood wasn't destroyed by the heal nerf... but it was. And while Blessing of Protection is good for 1 person focusing you, it doesn't save you against multiple people attacking you like Breath of Life does. Which is why blessing + heal ward is popular this patch, but it will not help you against two yahoos mindlessly spamming flat 2k light attacks focused on you. Templars are the only ones that will be able to handle multiple shield-breaker users attacking them at once.




This set is like, the definition of cheese. You could get this set at lvl 10, and give it to someone who just bought this game. And they would pose a threat just spamming light attacks that do a flat 2k dmg.



I don't mind the concept of this set really. Even if it's clear that ZOS is just trying to not actually balance anything, and instead offer band-aid solutions that are hidden under a power-grind. Or trying to appeal to players whom refuse to actually learn anything about the game. But the execution of it is total cheese. It needs to be re-worked/adjusted.

Yeah, a 1v1 vs. shield breaker is not so much the issue tho it still requires the shield use to play more skillfully than the set user. The problem comes when one is facing more than 1 shield breaker. And that'll never happen, right. lol

Septimus_Magna

Hardened Ward > major shield that absorbs both physical and spell damage.
Harness Magicka > minor shield that absorbs both physical and spell damage with increased or extra effect.
Healing Ward > direct heal with major dmg reduction buff for short time.

Only 1 major and 1 minor shield active at the same time, if you have 2 active shields of the same category both effects will work but only the most recent shield will absorb damage.

Voila, 98% of the shield stacking sorc problems solved.

FriedEggSandwich

Sharee wrote: »

I am sure if you kept constructing a niche specialized scenarios long enough, you will eventually come up with one where having a shield against shieldbreaker is worse than not having a shield. But even then for the vast majority of commonly encountered scenarios in PvP, anytime a shieldbreaker would kill you through a shield, a normal ability would kill you without it just as well. This set's effectiveness is blown out of proportion for typical PvP encounters. It is only a gamechanger for players used to running with minimal hitpoints while being untouchable behind a shield at all times.

I agree with the bit in bold; I play for a few hours everyday and I've been killed by this set twice and noticed an assault from it about 5 times. Thanks to the audio cue I've been able to do something about it.

I noticed that you think the 2.3k damage from this set is nothing to be concerned by. In 1.6 I would have agreed with you, but then in 1.6 my rapid regen ticked for 1.3k and crit tick for 2k. In the latest patch it ticks for 700 and crit ticks for 1.2k. My velocious curse only hits for 4k and frags for 5k. So in this latest patch the light attack procs from this set do about half the damage of my crystal frags (non-crit).

PenguinInACan

diskiukas wrote: »

PenguinInACan wrote: »

diskiukas wrote: »

So I play Sorc and NB. Ok I understand there is an issue with shield stacking, however , yesterday I was hit in Sewers with 20k Heavy Attack , plus 2.5k surprise attack (animation cancelling). I was dead instantly. Granted, he caught me unawares , browsing my bag and despite that I was in the same group in the same room with 10 other guildies and on TS, no one even saw him. This is with 50% damage reduction in IC ? 20k heavy attack, post 2.1?. Come on. Can I please get a dark cloak breaker.Or at least templar selfhealing breaker. Or at least one shot survival kit.

Defile CP and disease enchants can add up pretty well against the self heals.

Thanks Marek, I tried to be sarcastic about it, point is , that there will be always issues with something in this game. People study with spreadsheets and such for C sakes, how to make better builds. Theorycrafters will always find a way to outperform casual players. I have no issue with that and yesterday, he killed me , we laughed about it, guildies teased me a little and it was fun overall. No big deal. My problem is with people screaming all over the forums , nerf this, nerf that, because they being killed. I loved to dodge roll on my NB and used to do that constantly to release the pressure from my faction, lets say defending a keep. 10 people chasing me around ( it's not my fault that it is so important to them just to kill one person) means 10 people less sieging or going into the breach. You cant do that anymore. Or with streak, I used to streak into large groups causing havoc ( still can do that just not as much as I used to). That's part of somewhat warfare tactics. Why everything needs to be nerfed? Should I become very vocal and make them nerf something that kills me all the time? Or should I think what i could've done to survive and maybe try to use different tactics next time?

Yeah I figured you were being sarcastic but on the off chance you weren't

ZoS has been very adamant about pushing their own meta (even playing field). They want casual players to be able to enjoy PvP without getting utterly destroyed by those that actually have PvP skill. I'm not going to say that is wrong of them, but the way they are setting out to do it is driving away the players that have stuck around through meta-shift after meta-shift hoping some semblance of balance would reach the PvP world.

They have altered every class in the game so far and even took away stats to be "re-earned" through CP's in an attempt to balance the field. Now their solution is itemization. The current plan of adding sets to counteract the previous meta does not in any way break the PvE experiences (from my experience) and PvE-ers are the core consumer base for ESO.

Unfortunately (and we all know this from experience) PvP priorities are lower on the radar than dungeon difficulty and drop rates (which were in the most recent patch) instead of easy PvP fixes like alliance war ranks displaying the wrong symbol in the alliance war overview which should be a super simple fix.

Nevertheless, I'll stand by what I have said in the past that we will not see balance in this game for a long time, and those of us that have stuck it out since the beginning know that there is no reward for waiting, just more problems.

pmn100b16_ESO

Change 5 piece bonus to: Based on your critical hit chance, all your attacks can cause critical damage to shields

Derra

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Change 5 piece bonus to: Based on your critical hit chance, all your attacks can cause critical damage to shields

Now this would be something i can get behind.

Maulkin

Derra wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Change 5 piece bonus to: Based on your critical hit chance, all your attacks can cause critical damage to shields

Now this would be something i can get behind.

Nah, this won't work according to Alcast. It has to do irresistible damage according to him because otherwise it can get negated by constantly applying more shields you see. Never mind that there is no other defense mechanic for Sorcs than applying shields.

Shield breaker MUST bypass the only survival mechanic. Sorcs must flee before the power of shield breaker, for it to be even worth it </sarcasm>

Rook_Master

Levo18 wrote: »

The god-like reign of shield stacking sorc finally found an end. Now you have to think before attacking and not just stacking your shield up to 30k+ and spam fragments congrats ZOS for balancing

+1

Robbmrp

LegendaryChef wrote: »

I don't even think i have to say anything.

How low is your health? That's only 10k worth of damage......My Templar usually gets that from a Crystal Frag to the face.....or a DK whip....or a 13k Assassins Strike and I can still survive it.

Etaniel

Robbmrp wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

I don't even think i have to say anything.

How low is your health? That's only 10k worth of damage......My Templar usually gets that from a Crystal Frag to the face.....or a DK whip....or a 13k Assassins Strike and I can still survive it.

I'm guessing he kept reapplying shields, so technically the only dmg affecting his health was shield breaker, and since the recap can't show more than 5 occurence, the total dmg doesn't add up with his hp.

Robbmrp

Etaniel wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

I don't even think i have to say anything.

How low is your health? That's only 10k worth of damage......My Templar usually gets that from a Crystal Frag to the face.....or a DK whip....or a 13k Assassins Strike and I can still survive it.

I'm guessing he kept reapplying shields, so technically the only dmg affecting his health was shield breaker, and since the recap can't show more than 5 occurence, the total dmg doesn't add up with his hp.

So does the Shield proc on every shield that someone gets? So someone using a class shield, then a resto shield and then getting a barrier popped on them they automatically get hit with 6k damage? If that's the case, interesting way for @ZOS to try and persuade people from using multiple ones. It would have made much more sense to just remove the ability to shield stack in the first place.......

Even re-applying the shield shouldn't kill them. The shield strength is much higher than the 2k hit they would take.