1vShield Breaker + Many more enemies

LegendaryChef

Levo18 wrote: »

If you as a sorc encounter this set and cannot win just do what you always do when you about to lose.... Bolt escape over the whole map! Oh wait thats fixed too so now you actually have to fight

I would agree with you about the last part, yeah now we need to fight, but now not only can we not escape when a zerg runs at us we now get spammed with this set to the death. "Oh don't use shields then! L2P" LOL. What about the rest of the damage from the group on you? You just hope your mutagen out-heals 10 players on you? As for the first part, i will slaughter 90% of the super skillful players when they come against me 1v1 but when its multiple on you it just doesnt work.

Raizin

LegendaryChef wrote: »

I don't even think i have to say anything.

get rekt boi

eliisra

LegendaryChef wrote: »

Levo18 wrote: »

If you as a sorc encounter this set and cannot win just do what you always do when you about to lose.... Bolt escape over the whole map! Oh wait thats fixed too so now you actually have to fight

I would agree with you about the last part, yeah now we need to fight, but now not only can we not escape when a zerg runs at us we now get spammed with this set to the death. "Oh don't use shields then! L2P" LOL. What about the rest of the damage from the group on you? You just hope your mutagen out-heals 10 players on you? As for the first part, i will slaughter 90% of the super skillful players when they come against me 1v1 but when its multiple on you it just doesnt work.

You're suppose to just die instantly when attacked by 10+ players in ESO. Ask the combat team. Everyone needs to die to zerg, even sorcs.

But I get how much that must suck, since sorcs are used to dancing around zergs freely. Now they get rekt, rage and feel like uninstalling the game when solo, just like everyone else.

That set is still absolutely ***. We all know exactly who uses it to, which makes it even more infuriating. It's the idiot cat in 1.6 that would sit in sneak 99% of the fight, only to pop out and do a Snipe when the enemy is about to die. This is the perfect set for his preferred "playstyle", only need to use light attacks.

olsborg

I dont like the path this game is on. Pre 1.5 it was more about skill then itemization, now itemization is taking more and more over for skill. It started with the pve grind to get undaunted ***, now its grind to get v16 gear as fast as possible, and some of these new sets (like shieldbreaker) place "skill" in the hand of the unskilled...I dont like it. I refuse to use this set on my stamblade, if I wanna kill someone using shields to defend themself, Id rather kill them myself then have a set do it for me, its F'ed up.

Sharee

LegendaryChef wrote: »

b) I am using tri stat food

Not according to the death recap:

Hint: Consuming food or drink will increase your primary attributes

GRxKnight

Levo18 wrote: »

If you as a sorc encounter this set and cannot win just do what you always do when you about to lose.... Bolt escape over the whole map! Oh wait thats fixed too so now you actually have to fight

Sounds like you were one of those QQ nerf sorcs scrubs in 1.6 huh

Mojmir

just remember, no matter what you do, you will be wrong to someone. they're not going to change the set, move on.

Lord_Hev

Sharee wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

b) I am using tri stat food

Not according to the death recap:

Hint: Consuming food or drink will increase your primary attributes

The same death recap that tells me to "watch your step" when killed by 70k fall damage from a meteor, or to "use Dark Talons to even the odds" when I get mindlessly zerged down by a full raid that would rather kill one player instead of focusing on their objective.


Or to "buy potions to restore stats" meanwhile I'm chugging Tri-pots like an addict.



This is what his death recap should of said,

Hint: When faced with someone using shield-breaker, git gud nub. Have you tried re-rolling NB like Eric Wrobel?

Lucky28

Levo18 wrote: »

If you as a sorc encounter this set and cannot win just do what you always do when you about to lose.... Bolt escape over the whole map! Oh wait thats fixed too so now you actually have to fight

Have you played much PvP on this patch?. I can still bolt all over the map and i'm not the only one. And if i encounter this set, i just sit there and spam hardened ward, defensive run and heal and laugh a their reliance on this stupid set. Funny thing is, if they actually had any skill they'd be able to punish me for for toying with them like that, but they don't so i have nothing to worry about.

Yonkit

@Lord_Hev Nope, ask Corgi, me and him took Chalman yesterday and there was a v16 Stamplar with Shield Breaker, I will give him credit for swapping bars and actually using skills when we closed the gap, but that was only when WE closed the gap, 95.34% of the fight he was sitting 38m back spamming Light Attacks with a Weighted Bow, I *** you not Qaevir, even as a DK, if I cast Igneous, I'd die. This set is broken on so many levels it isn't even funny. Anyone who doesn't see that, is someone probably relatively new to the game, month or two, and had been getting wrecked last patch by Sorcerers because he didn't know how to counter Crystal Frags, as a Magicka DK, last patch, Sorcerers were jokes to fight, time your reflect, and they're own reflected shard can kill them if you time it with a meteor + Fossilize.

Now this patch, anyone, anyone that so much as uses a weapon enchantment for a minuscule damage shield. Is unintentionally gimping them-self. A damage shield, is a mechanic, that's suppose to prevent you, from taking damage, and using one whilst someone sits at the back of the horde with their "Sturmgewehr 44" is putting yourself, and as a DK with Igneous Shield everyone around you, at severe risk.

Anyone who had issue with Sorcerers last patch, and their 30-35k Shield Stacks. (Which btw most Sorcs only ran 25k shields, 30-35k required a lot more dedication and these Sorc builds had much less sustain.) Needs to get out a textbook on L2P and do some studying.

Rant over, burn Shield Breaker, and burn whoever designed it.

FriedEggSandwich

CP5 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

I don't even think i have to say anything.

All those whiners about shieldbreaker, feed me with more tears, Sorcs cant tank 20 ppl anymore in this patch if you have not noticed
Its even v15 lol

Try not to spam shields like crazy when enemy uses shieldbreaker, just sayin

Rough translation, try not to use shields when taking damage. In all honesty, the only way to know if you are even facing this set is to make sure your shields are indeed up but your health is still going down, its not a skill that you can spot and actively counter.

Actually there is an audio cue when this set procs on you, it's a horrible clang; like someone banging on the hull of a ship, terrifying.

Sharee

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

b) I am using tri stat food

Not according to the death recap:

Hint: Consuming food or drink will increase your primary attributes

The same death recap that tells me to "watch your step" when killed by 70k fall damage from a meteor, or to "use Dark Talons to even the odds" when I get mindlessly zerged down by a full raid that would rather kill one player instead of focusing on their objective.

The death recap uses a simple IF->THEN logic.

IF you take fall damage, THEN give advice about watching your step. Yes, sometimes the fall damage comes from a meteor and the advice does not make sense, but the point is, you would not get that hint if you did not suffer fall damage.

Similarly, you would not get a hint about using food if you had a food buff active when you died.

Forestd16b14_ESO

ZOS even said this from there mouths that they are not making any changes to shield breaker cause it is a 1 purpose set so stop with the QQ about shield breaker. Also if the player is a super skilled player then of course they'll win reguardless of shield breaker.

Skill >>> cheap tactics (such as frag or WB spamming)

Sharee

Yonkit wrote: »

Now this patch, anyone, anyone that so much as uses a weapon enchantment for a minuscule damage shield. Is unintentionally gimping them-self.

If i cast a minuscule damage shield, and someone hits me with a shieldbreaker light attack, the shield will absorb the damage of the light attack, and i will take ~2k shieldbreaker damage.

If i didn't cast the shield, i would take the light attack damage instead, which would likely be in the ~2k range anyway. The result is more or less the same.

Lord_Hev

Sharee wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

b) I am using tri stat food

Not according to the death recap:

Hint: Consuming food or drink will increase your primary attributes

The same death recap that tells me to "watch your step" when killed by 70k fall damage from a meteor, or to "use Dark Talons to even the odds" when I get mindlessly zerged down by a full raid that would rather kill one player instead of focusing on their objective.

The death recap uses a simple IF->THEN logic.

IF you take fall damage, THEN give advice about watching your step. Yes, sometimes the fall damage comes from a meteor and the advice does not make sense, but the point is, you would not get that hint if you did not suffer fall damage.

Similarly, you would not get a hint about using food if you had a food buff active when you died.

Which is why I get the same food hint, when I only run tri-food too...


Stop grasping straws. The death recap is utter garbage. Like the rest of this game's balance and coding.








Like gee. Maybe if I "activated a heavy attack on an off-balance target" I would not have died from 0 "ENVIROMENTAL DAMAGE".


HOW INFORMATIVE ZENIMAX.

Xsorus

Sharee wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Now this patch, anyone, anyone that so much as uses a weapon enchantment for a minuscule damage shield. Is unintentionally gimping them-self.

If i cast a minuscule damage shield, and someone hits me with a shieldbreaker light attack, the shield will absorb the damage of the light attack, and i will take ~2k shieldbreaker damage.

If i didn't cast the shield, i would take the light attack damage instead, which would likely be in the ~2k range anyway. The result is more or less the same.

lol yea, cast 10k shield.. Absorb that 10k burst hit or take 5 light attacks and 5 small hits for 2k a pop.

I'd say if you die to shield breaker at this point you are over relying on shields

Ezareth

Cinn and I were fighting a Sorc/Sap Tank NB combo last night and they killed us a few times by going hard for Cinn the whole time. 5 minute fights with 2800 Weapon damage using a 2handed sword and non-stop wrecking blow spam to the order of several hundred times and couldn't burst through the sorcs shield(mixing other abilities in as needed obviously). He's not going to run out of magicka and not going to run out of stamina. I fought Germantrocity 2 on 1 the other night and wrecking blowed him 300-400 times and landed every one but couldn't burst his shields either and he only has 121 CPs. He didn't die until a third player joined us.

I'm trying real hard not to use this cheezeball set because it's an inelegant solution but if it takes 2-3 good players to do the damage required to take down a good sorc then I'm not seeing an alternative. In the end it all comes down to math. If I can't do more damage in 1GCD than the sorc can in in the 1GCD it costs him to cast a shield I'm never going to kill him.

TheBull

At least they gave tips.

Lava_Croft

Too bad they don't produce Shield Breaker in a heavy armor variant.

That would be ZOS' dream build.

CP5

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

I don't even think i have to say anything.

All those whiners about shieldbreaker, feed me with more tears, Sorcs cant tank 20 ppl anymore in this patch if you have not noticed
Its even v15 lol

Try not to spam shields like crazy when enemy uses shieldbreaker, just sayin

Rough translation, try not to use shields when taking damage. In all honesty, the only way to know if you are even facing this set is to make sure your shields are indeed up but your health is still going down, its not a skill that you can spot and actively counter.

Actually there is an audio cue when this set procs on you, it's a horrible clang; like someone banging on the hull of a ship, terrifying.

Is it like the time they put bear traps in nb's pants so every time they stood up all you could hear is KA-CLANK?

FriedEggSandwich

Ezareth wrote: »

Cinn and I were fighting a Sorc/Sap Tank NB combo last night and they killed us a few times by going hard for Cinn the whole time. 5 minute fights with 2800 Weapon damage using a 2handed sword and non-stop wrecking blow spam to the order of several hundred times and couldn't burst through the sorcs shield(mixing other abilities in as needed obviously). He's not going to run out of magicka and not going to run out of stamina. I fought Germantrocity 2 on 1 the other night and wrecking blowed him 300-400 times and landed every one but couldn't burst his shields either and he only has 121 CPs. He didn't die until a third player joined us.

I'm trying real hard not to use this cheezeball set because it's an inelegant solution but if it takes 2-3 good players to do the damage required to take down a good sorc then I'm not seeing an alternative. In the end it all comes down to math. If I can't do more damage in 1GCD than the sorc can in in the 1GCD it costs him to cast a shield I'm never going to kill him.

If you are using wrecking blow then you only really have the 9k hardened ward to deal with until he gets low and casts healing ward, but as a ward that only lasts 4 seconds. You might see harness magicka but your attacks ignore it cos they're physical. This doesn't address the hardened ward spam but I notice you said he wasn't going to run out of stamina, what makes you think that? Good sorcs should know how to manage their stamina but they still run out of this resource more easily than the others. Stamina is every magicka sorcs biggest weakness. As soon as you see the white circles disappear then cc again immediately. I notice a lot that when fighting some players they don't take the opportunity to cc me when they could, and then they lose. If anyone is gonna kill me it's a 2h stam NB.

Sharee

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

but I notice you said he wasn't going to run out of stamina, what makes you think that?

Using a CC break gives you about ~8 seconds of CC immunity. During those 8 seconds, you will get ~4 stamina regen ticks. If your stamina regen is greater than CC break cost divided by four, you will never run out of stamina for CC breaking. (IIRC it comes out to ~800-900 stam regen needed, altho it has been a while since i saw the numbers so not entirely sure)

Psilent

LegendaryChef wrote: »

I don't even think i have to say anything.

Look at the brightside, you only lost 56 Tel'var Stones. Could have been worse; you might have lost thousands of Tel'var to this guy, then how mad would you be?

FriedEggSandwich

Sharee wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

but I notice you said he wasn't going to run out of stamina, what makes you think that?

Using a CC break gives you about ~8 seconds of CC immunity. During those 8 seconds, you will get ~4 stamina regen ticks. If your stamina regen is greater than CC break cost divided by four, you will never run out of stamina for CC breaking. (IIRC it comes out to ~800-900 stam regen needed, altho it has been a while since i saw the numbers so not entirely sure)

I thought the cc immunity was 5 secs, gonna need to see something official to believe it's 8 seconds. My stam regen is only 640 and I'm putting cp into mooncalf which is a really slow way to raise it. I can't imagine many sorcs roll with much more stam regen. I suppose I could wear a piece of medium. Any sorc with 800 stam regen will be sacrificing somewhere else so will be more survivable but less potent, it's a trade off.

Edit: imo it's more beneficial to put cp into tumbling and block expert but I've no clue exactly how much more this would let you cc break.

Ishammael

Let's say your hardened ward is 9k. As an attacker I need greater than 9k dps to defeat you in the straw man scenario. That is, 9k dps in addition to defending myself. Doable, mostly.

Now, cast your escape and you can cast more than one shield. I now have to burn through healing ward, harness, and hardened. In the well played scenario.

The math just doesn't work. Do I get a 9k heal on a DK? On a templar?

Now back to shield breaker. Poorly designed, garbage set, that doesn't address the root problem of shield stacking.

Sharee

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

but I notice you said he wasn't going to run out of stamina, what makes you think that?

Using a CC break gives you about ~8 seconds of CC immunity. During those 8 seconds, you will get ~4 stamina regen ticks. If your stamina regen is greater than CC break cost divided by four, you will never run out of stamina for CC breaking. (IIRC it comes out to ~800-900 stam regen needed, altho it has been a while since i saw the numbers so not entirely sure)

I thought the cc immunity was 5 secs, gonna need to see something official to believe it's 8 seconds.

It seems to be a bit inconclusive. Watch for how many seconds the yellow has the CC immunity swirls under his feet. They start while the video timer is still at 0:00(you can hear the CC break yell) and are still visible under his feet at the start of 0:08

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfODZM4a-PQ

Seems like 7-8 seconds to me. Certainly more than 5.

On the other hand, i did see videos where the immunity seemed shorter. Maybe it depends on the CC that has been broken?

Darnathian

GRxKnight wrote: »

Levo18 wrote: »

If you as a sorc encounter this set and cannot win just do what you always do when you about to lose.... Bolt escape over the whole map! Oh wait thats fixed too so now you actually have to fight

Sounds like you were one of those QQ nerf sorcs scrubs in 1.6 huh

Sounds like you were one of those fotm scrubs. Don't worry someone will figure it out for you so you can copy them too

ToRelax

Lord_Hev wrote: »

[...]This set is like, the definition of cheese. You could get this set at lvl 10, and give it to someone who just bought this game. And they would pose a threat just spamming light attacks that do a flat 2k dmg.
[...]

Actually the set scales with quality and level, so a level 10 shieldbreaker would be useless.

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

but I notice you said he wasn't going to run out of stamina, what makes you think that?

Using a CC break gives you about ~8 seconds of CC immunity. During those 8 seconds, you will get ~4 stamina regen ticks. If your stamina regen is greater than CC break cost divided by four, you will never run out of stamina for CC breaking. (IIRC it comes out to ~800-900 stam regen needed, altho it has been a while since i saw the numbers so not entirely sure)

I thought the cc immunity was 5 secs, gonna need to see something official to believe it's 8 seconds. My stam regen is only 640 and I'm putting cp into mooncalf which is a really slow way to raise it. I can't imagine many sorcs roll with much more stam regen. I suppose I could wear a piece of medium. Any sorc with 800 stam regen will be sacrificing somewhere else so will be more survivable but less potent, it's a trade off.

Edit: imo it's more beneficial to put cp into tumbling and block expert but I've no clue exactly how much more this would let you cc break.

It's 5 seconds auto cc immunity and 8 seconds when broken out of.

Btw, I have 900 stam regen on my sorc. 1 stamina regen bonus from 3 pc Willow's Path, vampirism, Deadric Protection passive, 10 CP in stam regen, 1 medium armor piece. In this case it comes mostly because of other choices, I didn't have to change anything to get deadric protection on all bars, a few points in stam regen is obvious once i got some regen and i didn't take vamp for the stam regen either.
Last patch it was a bigger tradeoff, when I used the Arena set. But that was also way better stam sustain than I have now, I literally didn't have to worry about cc breaks until I was at 17% stamina, that's a lot of roll dodges pre nerf with 16k stam.

FriedEggSandwich

Ishammael wrote: »

Let's say your hardened ward is 9k. As an attacker I need greater than 9k dps to defeat you in the straw man scenario. That is, 9k dps in addition to defending myself. Doable, mostly.

Now, cast your escape and you can cast more than one shield. I now have to burn through healing ward, harness, and hardened. In the well played scenario.

The math just doesn't work. Do I get a 9k heal on a DK? On a templar?

Now back to shield breaker. Poorly designed, garbage set, that doesn't address the root problem of shield stacking.

I hear you, shield breaker set is useless against those who are actually affected by shield stackers, i.e. magicka builds. Most sorcs now agree that hardened+harness is overkill for fighting magicka builds and I've now stopped using harness/dampen magic as have other sorcs I know of. Contrary to popular belief sorcs are actually individual people most of whom want a balanced game. Don't get too distracted by healing ward, it lasts 4 seconds. If you see it then go defensive yourself until it pops then cc with spear or something.

Ezareth

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Cinn and I were fighting a Sorc/Sap Tank NB combo last night and they killed us a few times by going hard for Cinn the whole time. 5 minute fights with 2800 Weapon damage using a 2handed sword and non-stop wrecking blow spam to the order of several hundred times and couldn't burst through the sorcs shield(mixing other abilities in as needed obviously). He's not going to run out of magicka and not going to run out of stamina. I fought Germantrocity 2 on 1 the other night and wrecking blowed him 300-400 times and landed every one but couldn't burst his shields either and he only has 121 CPs. He didn't die until a third player joined us.

I'm trying real hard not to use this cheezeball set because it's an inelegant solution but if it takes 2-3 good players to do the damage required to take down a good sorc then I'm not seeing an alternative. In the end it all comes down to math. If I can't do more damage in 1GCD than the sorc can in in the 1GCD it costs him to cast a shield I'm never going to kill him.

If you are using wrecking blow then you only really have the 9k hardened ward to deal with until he gets low and casts healing ward, but as a ward that only lasts 4 seconds. You might see harness magicka but your attacks ignore it cos they're physical. This doesn't address the hardened ward spam but I notice you said he wasn't going to run out of stamina, what makes you think that? Good sorcs should know how to manage their stamina but they still run out of this resource more easily than the others. Stamina is every magicka sorcs biggest weakness. As soon as you see the white circles disappear then cc again immediately. I notice a lot that when fighting some players they don't take the opportunity to cc me when they could, and then they lose. If anyone is gonna kill me it's a 2h stam NB.

Both of them were using engine guardian and in a scenario where you never need to dodge roll or block you can break free every 8 seconds without running out of stamina. I'm also assuming they were using tri-stats on cooldown as I had to as well. The best sorcs are never going to run out of stamina, it just boils down to math there. You can't force them to block and you can't force them to dodge roll so the only stamina expense is break-free. Easy enough to manage.

Wrecking blow isn't going to do nearly 9K when it can never crit. My Tooltip when fully buffed is 12K so I'm doing 6K each wrecking blow. My V15 sorc right now with 96 into bastion and less than 30K magicka in all V14 gear has a hair under a 9K hardened ward in Cyrodiil and there are sorcs out there with over 12K hardened wards stacking magicka. If it costs me two GCDs just to break his single hardened ward then I'm never going to kill that sorc unless he makes a mistake.