1vShield Breaker + Many more enemies

Levo18

No the set should not to additional damage to shields or anything else. It HAS to bypass the shield conpletely otherwise its useless. All you shield users are whining cause you cant have your easy Mode just L2P and adapt to it dont cry nerf this nerf that you carebears!!

ToRelax

Levo18 wrote: »

No the set should not to additional damage to shields or anything else. It HAS to bypass the shield conpletely otherwise its useless. All you shield users are whining cause you cant have your easy Mode just L2P and adapt to it dont cry nerf this nerf that you carebears!!

Who's crying?

Hexys

ToRelax wrote: »

Hexys wrote: »

R.I.P Nightblade/Templars/Dragonknights with Harness, not so fun for them to get hit by Snipe/Wrecking Blow + light attacks + Shield Breaker directly to their health.

For sorcs there is alot of counters to this, but mostly will take a sacrafice in other stats / ability's.

- Stack more Health Regeneration
- Get more Health
- Swap Healing Ward for Blessing of Restoration/Mutagen
- High stamina recovery for dodge rolls
- Time your burst (Detonation / Meteor) and pressure the shield breaker guy first (1vX)
- Fight around obstacles with mines
- Don't use Entropy, always Power Surge

The only problem I have is seeing people without any IQ using a weighted bow and ONLY spamming light attacks. I'm sure there are skilled players around that are using this set as an extra, not as their main damage.

1vX an enemy group that has a good templar with a buddy using shieldbreaker and you are screwed already.

For shield-stacking I agree it's to strong, but it's for ZOS to make them crittable. Also remake the shield breaker set to like: 'all attacks will have 1-2k extra damage (against the shield, not health) to players having a shield active', physical damage will not proc the shield breaker set when players have harness magicka active that is supposed to absorb magic damage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7I0hMr37l4

A recording I made this weekend in which you can see that stacking shields with this amount of magicka is overpowered, while I have no problems with magicka, only with stamina at one point.

Actually, the video doesn't really proof anything, as the opponents were just bad. The last guy spammed Brawler, I mean come on.
You could tank 2 good players just spamming shields though, that would make clear how broken the system is - however, it would not tell us that shields are the actual problem, just that you shouldn't be able to spam optimized shields forever.

yep, exactly

Maulkin

ToRelax wrote: »

I'd make it take a percentage of total shield strength, so it doesn't make small shields useless...

Yep, called it.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

The best way would be for this set's damage to hit the Wards instead of the HP and scale with the size of the Wards. For example 35% of the ward's value is added on top.

For example if you have a small 5k shield the set will hit ~1.7k extra damage on your shields. Still good DPS boost. If you have stacked a Hardened Ward and Healing Ward and Barrier and have a 30k shield, the set will add ~10k damage on the wards for that first hit.

Asmael

Levo18 wrote: »

No the set should not to additional damage to shields or anything else. It HAS to bypass the shield conpletely otherwise its useless. All you shield users are whining cause you cant have your easy Mode just L2P and adapt to it dont cry nerf this nerf that you carebears!!

Lemme guess...

You don't play sorc, but you (will) use the shield breaker.

Also, lemme quote you on that:

Levo18 wrote: »

Sorcerers are still overpowered as hell.

And by doing so, you effectively confirmed your willingness to refuse to learn how to beat a sorc.

Sharee

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

If you are so low on health that the pitiful damage from shieldbreaker kills you, then you would not be able to survive a real damage skill without the shield, no matter what armor and resists you have.

I'm sorry, but WTAF? So, so, so, short-sighted it's unreal.

First off, the damage is not pitiful at all. 2.3k on legendary v16 set, is as much as my crushing shock tooltip

And how effective would you be at killing someone if you tried to do it with nothing but crushing shock?. Not very effective. You would probably fail to kill him unless he was afk.

Thus, pitiful damage.

Sharee

Double post.

ToRelax

Sharee wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

If you are so low on health that the pitiful damage from shieldbreaker kills you, then you would not be able to survive a real damage skill without the shield, no matter what armor and resists you have.

I'm sorry, but WTAF? So, so, so, short-sighted it's unreal.

First off, the damage is not pitiful at all. 2.3k on legendary v16 set, is as much as my crushing shock tooltip

And how effective would you be at killing someone if you tried to do it with nothing but crushing shock?. Not very effective. You would probably fail to kill him unless he was afk.

Thus, pitiful damage.

Unless, of course, I would ignore most active and all passive defense... >_>

diskiukas

So I play Sorc and NB. Ok I understand there is an issue with shield stacking, however , yesterday I was hit in Sewers with 20k Heavy Attack , plus 2.5k surprise attack (animation cancelling). I was dead instantly. Granted, he caught me unawares , browsing my bag and despite that I was in the same group in the same room with 10 other guildies and on TS, no one even saw him. This is with 50% damage reduction in IC ? 20k heavy attack, post 2.1?. Come on. Can I please get a dark cloak breaker.Or at least templar selfhealing breaker. Or at least one shot survival kit.

Sharee

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

If you are so low on health that the pitiful damage from shieldbreaker kills you, then you would not be able to survive a real damage skill without the shield, no matter what armor and resists you have.

I'm sorry, but WTAF? So, so, so, short-sighted it's unreal.

First off, the damage is not pitiful at all. 2.3k on legendary v16 set, is as much as my crushing shock tooltip

And how effective would you be at killing someone if you tried to do it with nothing but crushing shock?. Not very effective. You would probably fail to kill him unless he was afk.

Thus, pitiful damage.

Unless, of course, I would ignore most active and all passive defense... >_>

Even then. Killing someone with(at most) 4K DPS only takes so long that the target has all the time in the world to do something about it. Against any decent opponent, just spamming shieldbreaker while he is at full HP will quickly result in either the spammer dying (to far more than 4K DPS), or the target bolting twice around a corner(or something similar).

Personally, i only utilize the set after a conventional fight leaves the enemy at very low health, at which point he used to bolt->healing ward->hardened ward which effectively reset the fight back to where it started, and i couldn't do anything about it.

Now, i can.

Maulkin

Sharee wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

If you are so low on health that the pitiful damage from shieldbreaker kills you, then you would not be able to survive a real damage skill without the shield, no matter what armor and resists you have.

I'm sorry, but WTAF? So, so, so, short-sighted it's unreal.

First off, the damage is not pitiful at all. 2.3k on legendary v16 set, is as much as my crushing shock tooltip

And how effective would you be at killing someone if you tried to do it with nothing but crushing shock?. Not very effective. You would probably fail to kill him unless he was afk.

Thus, pitiful damage.

What's the point of this comment? Did you just cherry pick the first paragraph and respond to that? Where's your response to the rest of the comment?

You still animation cancel other attacks with shieldbreaker. The crushing shock straight to the healthbar is just a bonus. My point was that 2.3k dmg is not negligible in 2.1 at all. Saying it is, doesn't make it so. There are no direct heals in the resto line that do even a 3k heal now. I don't have a 7k (non-crit) Breath of Life in my arsenal. Which is why I need shields.

The point was that I have no form of healing out, or protecting my self in any form, against 2.3k damage to my HP on every single rotation. My only option is to push for the kill or flee and if the player knows what he's doing neither of them will work. Because decent players can sustain past 10" of combat (when my HP will be depleted) and Streak is not as reliable an escape as it was after another 3 nerfs to it in this update alone.

Come back with better arguments please.

PenguinInACan

diskiukas wrote: »

So I play Sorc and NB. Ok I understand there is an issue with shield stacking, however , yesterday I was hit in Sewers with 20k Heavy Attack , plus 2.5k surprise attack (animation cancelling). I was dead instantly. Granted, he caught me unawares , browsing my bag and despite that I was in the same group in the same room with 10 other guildies and on TS, no one even saw him. This is with 50% damage reduction in IC ? 20k heavy attack, post 2.1?. Come on. Can I please get a dark cloak breaker.Or at least templar selfhealing breaker. Or at least one shot survival kit.

Defile CP and disease enchants can add up pretty well against the self heals.

Sharee

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

If you are so low on health that the pitiful damage from shieldbreaker kills you, then you would not be able to survive a real damage skill without the shield, no matter what armor and resists you have.

I'm sorry, but WTAF? So, so, so, short-sighted it's unreal.

First off, the damage is not pitiful at all. 2.3k on legendary v16 set, is as much as my crushing shock tooltip

And how effective would you be at killing someone if you tried to do it with nothing but crushing shock?. Not very effective. You would probably fail to kill him unless he was afk.

Thus, pitiful damage.

What's the point of this comment? Did you just cherry pick the first paragraph and respond to that? Where's your response to the rest of the comment?

It was just a long-winded whine about how sorcerers have no heals. I responded to the part that actually was about shield breaker.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

You still animation cancel other attacks with shieldbreaker.

And they will be all absorbed by your shield. The damage your healthbar takes still comes from shieldbreaker only.

ToRelax

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

If you are so low on health that the pitiful damage from shieldbreaker kills you, then you would not be able to survive a real damage skill without the shield, no matter what armor and resists you have.

I'm sorry, but WTAF? So, so, so, short-sighted it's unreal.

First off, the damage is not pitiful at all. 2.3k on legendary v16 set, is as much as my crushing shock tooltip

And how effective would you be at killing someone if you tried to do it with nothing but crushing shock?. Not very effective. You would probably fail to kill him unless he was afk.

Thus, pitiful damage.

Unless, of course, I would ignore most active and all passive defense... >_>

Even then. Killing someone with(at most) 4K DPS only takes so long that the target has all the time in the world to do something about it. Against any decent opponent, just spamming shieldbreaker while he is at full HP will quickly result in either the spammer dying (to far more than 4K DPS), or the target bolting twice around a corner(or something similar).

Personally, i only utilize the set after a conventional fight leaves the enemy at very low health, at which point he used to bolt->healing ward->hardened ward which effectively reset the fight back to where it started, and i couldn't do anything about it.

Now, i can.

I think I said it ignores most active defense? Including the only good burst heal for every magicka player but Templars.
If there is nothing you can do about it, then all the time in the world won't help you. Since Bolt Escape is now increasing in cost fast and unlimited, you simply got outplayed if a Sorc manages to escape while you have a gap closer, so that won't work anyway - against a good player, wich is the point kind of.
While good Sorcs are now all the time looking for ways how to deal with this set, the only thing I hear from those who use shieldbreaker is either they aren't actually good players or they don't focus on optimizing this counter.

Sharee

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

If you are so low on health that the pitiful damage from shieldbreaker kills you, then you would not be able to survive a real damage skill without the shield, no matter what armor and resists you have.

I'm sorry, but WTAF? So, so, so, short-sighted it's unreal.

First off, the damage is not pitiful at all. 2.3k on legendary v16 set, is as much as my crushing shock tooltip

And how effective would you be at killing someone if you tried to do it with nothing but crushing shock?. Not very effective. You would probably fail to kill him unless he was afk.

Thus, pitiful damage.

Unless, of course, I would ignore most active and all passive defense... >_>

Even then. Killing someone with(at most) 4K DPS only takes so long that the target has all the time in the world to do something about it. Against any decent opponent, just spamming shieldbreaker while he is at full HP will quickly result in either the spammer dying (to far more than 4K DPS), or the target bolting twice around a corner(or something similar).

Personally, i only utilize the set after a conventional fight leaves the enemy at very low health, at which point he used to bolt->healing ward->hardened ward which effectively reset the fight back to where it started, and i couldn't do anything about it.

Now, i can.

If there is nothing you can do about it, then all the time in the world won't help you.

Someone is slowly killing you with DPS that will never exceed 4K (and that only if he is using a weighted bow) - and you can't do anything about it? How about pressure him with your own damage (far greater than 4K DPS) so he has other things to worry about than freely spamming light attacks? Roll dodge, cloak, bolt out of LOS, heck, heal yourself, simply healing springs with rapid regeneration will cut that 4K DPS down to almost nothing, buying you even more time to pressure him with your own DPS.

ToRelax

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

If you are so low on health that the pitiful damage from shieldbreaker kills you, then you would not be able to survive a real damage skill without the shield, no matter what armor and resists you have.

I'm sorry, but WTAF? So, so, so, short-sighted it's unreal.

First off, the damage is not pitiful at all. 2.3k on legendary v16 set, is as much as my crushing shock tooltip

And how effective would you be at killing someone if you tried to do it with nothing but crushing shock?. Not very effective. You would probably fail to kill him unless he was afk.

Thus, pitiful damage.

Unless, of course, I would ignore most active and all passive defense... >_>

Even then. Killing someone with(at most) 4K DPS only takes so long that the target has all the time in the world to do something about it. Against any decent opponent, just spamming shieldbreaker while he is at full HP will quickly result in either the spammer dying (to far more than 4K DPS), or the target bolting twice around a corner(or something similar).

Personally, i only utilize the set after a conventional fight leaves the enemy at very low health, at which point he used to bolt->healing ward->hardened ward which effectively reset the fight back to where it started, and i couldn't do anything about it.

Now, i can.

If there is nothing you can do about it, then all the time in the world won't help you.

Someone is slowly killing you with DPS that will never exceed 4K (and that only if he is using a weighted bow) - and you can't do anything about it? How about pressure him with your own damage (far greater than 4K DPS) so he has other things to worry about than freely spamming light attacks? Roll dodge, cloak, bolt out of LOS, heck, heal yourself, simply healing springs with rapid regeneration will cut that 4K DPS down to almost nothing, buying you even more time to pressure him with your own DPS.

That only works on bad players. A good player will use his own defensive mechanisms, wich are still intact. A NB could cloak a lot, that'd give me 15-20 seconds to kill him if I use a detection potion and eventually time it with Clouding Swarm. A DK would use scales and thus reflect most of my attack if I use them. Both can outheal the damage that still does get through, and a Templar is able to outheal all my damage anyway.

Sharee

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

If you are so low on health that the pitiful damage from shieldbreaker kills you, then you would not be able to survive a real damage skill without the shield, no matter what armor and resists you have.

I'm sorry, but WTAF? So, so, so, short-sighted it's unreal.

First off, the damage is not pitiful at all. 2.3k on legendary v16 set, is as much as my crushing shock tooltip

And how effective would you be at killing someone if you tried to do it with nothing but crushing shock?. Not very effective. You would probably fail to kill him unless he was afk.

Thus, pitiful damage.

Unless, of course, I would ignore most active and all passive defense... >_>

Even then. Killing someone with(at most) 4K DPS only takes so long that the target has all the time in the world to do something about it. Against any decent opponent, just spamming shieldbreaker while he is at full HP will quickly result in either the spammer dying (to far more than 4K DPS), or the target bolting twice around a corner(or something similar).

Personally, i only utilize the set after a conventional fight leaves the enemy at very low health, at which point he used to bolt->healing ward->hardened ward which effectively reset the fight back to where it started, and i couldn't do anything about it.

Now, i can.

If there is nothing you can do about it, then all the time in the world won't help you.

Someone is slowly killing you with DPS that will never exceed 4K (and that only if he is using a weighted bow) - and you can't do anything about it? How about pressure him with your own damage (far greater than 4K DPS) so he has other things to worry about than freely spamming light attacks? Roll dodge, cloak, bolt out of LOS, heck, heal yourself, simply healing springs with rapid regeneration will cut that 4K DPS down to almost nothing, buying you even more time to pressure him with your own DPS.

That only works on bad players. A good player will use his own defensive mechanisms, wich are still intact. A NB could cloak a lot, that'd give me 15-20 seconds to kill him if I use a detection potion and eventually time it with Clouding Swarm. A DK would use scales and thus reflect most of my attack if I use them. Both can outheal the damage that still does get through, and a Templar is able to outheal all my damage anyway.

I never said you won't have to work for your wins. Pressure the enemy to interrupt his light attack spam and force him into defensive, use dodges, use heals, break away when needed - streak through him, streak again around corner, there's no way he can CC break fast enough to catch you (he can't block the streak CC because you can't spam light attacks and block at the same time), drop healing ward/hardened ward combo, there's no way he can kill you before the healing pops, etc. etc.

I'm sure i don't have to tell you how to play your class.

diskiukas

PenguinInACan wrote: »

diskiukas wrote: »

So I play Sorc and NB. Ok I understand there is an issue with shield stacking, however , yesterday I was hit in Sewers with 20k Heavy Attack , plus 2.5k surprise attack (animation cancelling). I was dead instantly. Granted, he caught me unawares , browsing my bag and despite that I was in the same group in the same room with 10 other guildies and on TS, no one even saw him. This is with 50% damage reduction in IC ? 20k heavy attack, post 2.1?. Come on. Can I please get a dark cloak breaker.Or at least templar selfhealing breaker. Or at least one shot survival kit.

Defile CP and disease enchants can add up pretty well against the self heals.

Thanks Marek, I tried to be sarcastic about it, point is , that there will be always issues with something in this game. People study with spreadsheets and such for C sakes, how to make better builds. Theorycrafters will always find a way to outperform casual players. I have no issue with that and yesterday, he killed me , we laughed about it, guildies teased me a little and it was fun overall. No big deal. My problem is with people screaming all over the forums , nerf this, nerf that, because they being killed. I loved to dodge roll on my NB and used to do that constantly to release the pressure from my faction, lets say defending a keep. 10 people chasing me around ( it's not my fault that it is so important to them just to kill one person) means 10 people less sieging or going into the breach. You cant do that anymore. Or with streak, I used to streak into large groups causing havoc ( still can do that just not as much as I used to). That's part of somewhat warfare tactics. Why everything needs to be nerfed? Should I become very vocal and make them nerf something that kills me all the time? Or should I think what i could've done to survive and maybe try to use different tactics next time?

ToRelax

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

If you are so low on health that the pitiful damage from shieldbreaker kills you, then you would not be able to survive a real damage skill without the shield, no matter what armor and resists you have.

I'm sorry, but WTAF? So, so, so, short-sighted it's unreal.

First off, the damage is not pitiful at all. 2.3k on legendary v16 set, is as much as my crushing shock tooltip

And how effective would you be at killing someone if you tried to do it with nothing but crushing shock?. Not very effective. You would probably fail to kill him unless he was afk.

Thus, pitiful damage.

Unless, of course, I would ignore most active and all passive defense... >_>

Even then. Killing someone with(at most) 4K DPS only takes so long that the target has all the time in the world to do something about it. Against any decent opponent, just spamming shieldbreaker while he is at full HP will quickly result in either the spammer dying (to far more than 4K DPS), or the target bolting twice around a corner(or something similar).

Personally, i only utilize the set after a conventional fight leaves the enemy at very low health, at which point he used to bolt->healing ward->hardened ward which effectively reset the fight back to where it started, and i couldn't do anything about it.

Now, i can.

If there is nothing you can do about it, then all the time in the world won't help you.

Someone is slowly killing you with DPS that will never exceed 4K (and that only if he is using a weighted bow) - and you can't do anything about it? How about pressure him with your own damage (far greater than 4K DPS) so he has other things to worry about than freely spamming light attacks? Roll dodge, cloak, bolt out of LOS, heck, heal yourself, simply healing springs with rapid regeneration will cut that 4K DPS down to almost nothing, buying you even more time to pressure him with your own DPS.

That only works on bad players. A good player will use his own defensive mechanisms, wich are still intact. A NB could cloak a lot, that'd give me 15-20 seconds to kill him if I use a detection potion and eventually time it with Clouding Swarm. A DK would use scales and thus reflect most of my attack if I use them. Both can outheal the damage that still does get through, and a Templar is able to outheal all my damage anyway.

I never said you won't have to work for your wins. Pressure the enemy to interrupt his light attack spam and force him into defensive, use dodges, use heals, break away when needed - streak through him, streak again around corner, there's no way he can CC break fast enough to catch you (he can't block the streak CC because you can't spam light attacks and block at the same time), drop healing ward/hardened ward combo, there's no way he can kill you before the healing pops, etc. etc.

I'm sure i don't have to tell you how to play your class.

There are 3 things with that you can "interrupt his light attack spam" and these don't force him into defense:
CC (wich is broken out of instantly), breaking LOS (wich is not always available) and range (wich is not available against a good player with a gap closer and pretty much giving up anyway, because both players have the same range).
No, you don't have to tell me how to play my class indeed, since you don't seem to know very much about it yourself.

Alcast

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I'd make it take a percentage of total shield strength, so it doesn't make small shields useless...

Yep, called it.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

The best way would be for this set's damage to hit the Wards instead of the HP and scale with the size of the Wards. For example 35% of the ward's value is added on top.

For example if you have a small 5k shield the set will hit ~1.7k extra damage on your shields. Still good DPS boost. If you have stacked a Hardened Ward and Healing Ward and Barrier and have a 30k shield, the set will add ~10k damage on the wards for that first hit.

This will not fix the issue. Then people simply can continue spamming shields without any issue?

I am still for a Minor/Major shield fix.

Sharee

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

If you are so low on health that the pitiful damage from shieldbreaker kills you, then you would not be able to survive a real damage skill without the shield, no matter what armor and resists you have.

I'm sorry, but WTAF? So, so, so, short-sighted it's unreal.

First off, the damage is not pitiful at all. 2.3k on legendary v16 set, is as much as my crushing shock tooltip

And how effective would you be at killing someone if you tried to do it with nothing but crushing shock?. Not very effective. You would probably fail to kill him unless he was afk.

Thus, pitiful damage.

Unless, of course, I would ignore most active and all passive defense... >_>

Even then. Killing someone with(at most) 4K DPS only takes so long that the target has all the time in the world to do something about it. Against any decent opponent, just spamming shieldbreaker while he is at full HP will quickly result in either the spammer dying (to far more than 4K DPS), or the target bolting twice around a corner(or something similar).

Personally, i only utilize the set after a conventional fight leaves the enemy at very low health, at which point he used to bolt->healing ward->hardened ward which effectively reset the fight back to where it started, and i couldn't do anything about it.

Now, i can.

If there is nothing you can do about it, then all the time in the world won't help you.

Someone is slowly killing you with DPS that will never exceed 4K (and that only if he is using a weighted bow) - and you can't do anything about it? How about pressure him with your own damage (far greater than 4K DPS) so he has other things to worry about than freely spamming light attacks? Roll dodge, cloak, bolt out of LOS, heck, heal yourself, simply healing springs with rapid regeneration will cut that 4K DPS down to almost nothing, buying you even more time to pressure him with your own DPS.

That only works on bad players. A good player will use his own defensive mechanisms, wich are still intact. A NB could cloak a lot, that'd give me 15-20 seconds to kill him if I use a detection potion and eventually time it with Clouding Swarm. A DK would use scales and thus reflect most of my attack if I use them. Both can outheal the damage that still does get through, and a Templar is able to outheal all my damage anyway.

I never said you won't have to work for your wins. Pressure the enemy to interrupt his light attack spam and force him into defensive, use dodges, use heals, break away when needed - streak through him, streak again around corner, there's no way he can CC break fast enough to catch you (he can't block the streak CC because you can't spam light attacks and block at the same time), drop healing ward/hardened ward combo, there's no way he can kill you before the healing pops, etc. etc.

I'm sure i don't have to tell you how to play your class.

There are 3 things with that you can "interrupt his light attack spam" and these don't force him into defense:
CC (wich is broken out of instantly), breaking LOS (wich is not always available) and range (wich is not available against a good player with a gap closer and pretty much giving up anyway, because both players have the same range).
No, you don't have to tell me how to play my class indeed, since you don't seem to know very much about it yourself.

I know about it enough to tell shieldbreaker spam is only a problem for those unwilling to adapt. I have one of every class, by the way.

Ezareth

Alcast wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I'd make it take a percentage of total shield strength, so it doesn't make small shields useless...

Yep, called it.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

The best way would be for this set's damage to hit the Wards instead of the HP and scale with the size of the Wards. For example 35% of the ward's value is added on top.

For example if you have a small 5k shield the set will hit ~1.7k extra damage on your shields. Still good DPS boost. If you have stacked a Hardened Ward and Healing Ward and Barrier and have a 30k shield, the set will add ~10k damage on the wards for that first hit.

This will not fix the issue. Then people simply can continue spamming shields without any issue?

I am still for a Minor/Major shield fix.

Shield "Stacking" has never been the problem. I really don't understand why people continue to think that would solve anything.

Takes-No-Prisoner

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Thanks for the info man, I've not really ever looked at raising my stam outside of the champion system. I'm noticing that generally trade-offs are a bit easier in this latest patch. 1.6 was go all out damage or lose.

In my endless quest to science my own science to improve my science, I agree with ToRelax. I too must say, that I have put 40 points into Stamina regain for CP, and 57 into Mana regain for CP. Plus use 1 medium armor piece + passives, and its actually super helpful having 15k stamina and 800 regain as a Mana focused Templar. Though I am on console for the moment, from what ToRelax says sounds like my set up above will be a lot better in the next patch. So yes, it is definitely worth investing early for the CP buffs but also the equipment as well.

ToRelax

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

If you are so low on health that the pitiful damage from shieldbreaker kills you, then you would not be able to survive a real damage skill without the shield, no matter what armor and resists you have.

I'm sorry, but WTAF? So, so, so, short-sighted it's unreal.

First off, the damage is not pitiful at all. 2.3k on legendary v16 set, is as much as my crushing shock tooltip

And how effective would you be at killing someone if you tried to do it with nothing but crushing shock?. Not very effective. You would probably fail to kill him unless he was afk.

Thus, pitiful damage.

Unless, of course, I would ignore most active and all passive defense... >_>

Even then. Killing someone with(at most) 4K DPS only takes so long that the target has all the time in the world to do something about it. Against any decent opponent, just spamming shieldbreaker while he is at full HP will quickly result in either the spammer dying (to far more than 4K DPS), or the target bolting twice around a corner(or something similar).

Personally, i only utilize the set after a conventional fight leaves the enemy at very low health, at which point he used to bolt->healing ward->hardened ward which effectively reset the fight back to where it started, and i couldn't do anything about it.

Now, i can.

If there is nothing you can do about it, then all the time in the world won't help you.

Someone is slowly killing you with DPS that will never exceed 4K (and that only if he is using a weighted bow) - and you can't do anything about it? How about pressure him with your own damage (far greater than 4K DPS) so he has other things to worry about than freely spamming light attacks? Roll dodge, cloak, bolt out of LOS, heck, heal yourself, simply healing springs with rapid regeneration will cut that 4K DPS down to almost nothing, buying you even more time to pressure him with your own DPS.

That only works on bad players. A good player will use his own defensive mechanisms, wich are still intact. A NB could cloak a lot, that'd give me 15-20 seconds to kill him if I use a detection potion and eventually time it with Clouding Swarm. A DK would use scales and thus reflect most of my attack if I use them. Both can outheal the damage that still does get through, and a Templar is able to outheal all my damage anyway.

I never said you won't have to work for your wins. Pressure the enemy to interrupt his light attack spam and force him into defensive, use dodges, use heals, break away when needed - streak through him, streak again around corner, there's no way he can CC break fast enough to catch you (he can't block the streak CC because you can't spam light attacks and block at the same time), drop healing ward/hardened ward combo, there's no way he can kill you before the healing pops, etc. etc.

I'm sure i don't have to tell you how to play your class.

There are 3 things with that you can "interrupt his light attack spam" and these don't force him into defense:
CC (wich is broken out of instantly), breaking LOS (wich is not always available) and range (wich is not available against a good player with a gap closer and pretty much giving up anyway, because both players have the same range).
No, you don't have to tell me how to play my class indeed, since you don't seem to know very much about it yourself.

I know about it enough to tell shieldbreaker spam is only a problem for those unwilling to adapt. I have one of every class, by the way.

You end your comment with a little side blow wich I give right back to you at the end of mine and you decide to only answer on that anymore? Funny.

Anyway, I don't think you're a very good player, so I can't really take your opinion on wether I am able to counter other players on my level using this set serious. Prove me wrong if you care, but that's what I think.

Sharee

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

If you are so low on health that the pitiful damage from shieldbreaker kills you, then you would not be able to survive a real damage skill without the shield, no matter what armor and resists you have.

I'm sorry, but WTAF? So, so, so, short-sighted it's unreal.

First off, the damage is not pitiful at all. 2.3k on legendary v16 set, is as much as my crushing shock tooltip

And how effective would you be at killing someone if you tried to do it with nothing but crushing shock?. Not very effective. You would probably fail to kill him unless he was afk.

Thus, pitiful damage.

Unless, of course, I would ignore most active and all passive defense... >_>

Even then. Killing someone with(at most) 4K DPS only takes so long that the target has all the time in the world to do something about it. Against any decent opponent, just spamming shieldbreaker while he is at full HP will quickly result in either the spammer dying (to far more than 4K DPS), or the target bolting twice around a corner(or something similar).

Personally, i only utilize the set after a conventional fight leaves the enemy at very low health, at which point he used to bolt->healing ward->hardened ward which effectively reset the fight back to where it started, and i couldn't do anything about it.

Now, i can.

If there is nothing you can do about it, then all the time in the world won't help you.

Someone is slowly killing you with DPS that will never exceed 4K (and that only if he is using a weighted bow) - and you can't do anything about it? How about pressure him with your own damage (far greater than 4K DPS) so he has other things to worry about than freely spamming light attacks? Roll dodge, cloak, bolt out of LOS, heck, heal yourself, simply healing springs with rapid regeneration will cut that 4K DPS down to almost nothing, buying you even more time to pressure him with your own DPS.

That only works on bad players. A good player will use his own defensive mechanisms, wich are still intact. A NB could cloak a lot, that'd give me 15-20 seconds to kill him if I use a detection potion and eventually time it with Clouding Swarm. A DK would use scales and thus reflect most of my attack if I use them. Both can outheal the damage that still does get through, and a Templar is able to outheal all my damage anyway.

I never said you won't have to work for your wins. Pressure the enemy to interrupt his light attack spam and force him into defensive, use dodges, use heals, break away when needed - streak through him, streak again around corner, there's no way he can CC break fast enough to catch you (he can't block the streak CC because you can't spam light attacks and block at the same time), drop healing ward/hardened ward combo, there's no way he can kill you before the healing pops, etc. etc.

I'm sure i don't have to tell you how to play your class.

There are 3 things with that you can "interrupt his light attack spam" and these don't force him into defense:
CC (wich is broken out of instantly), breaking LOS (wich is not always available) and range (wich is not available against a good player with a gap closer and pretty much giving up anyway, because both players have the same range).
No, you don't have to tell me how to play my class indeed, since you don't seem to know very much about it yourself.

I know about it enough to tell shieldbreaker spam is only a problem for those unwilling to adapt. I have one of every class, by the way.

You end your comment with a little side blow wich I give right back to you at the end of mine and you decide to only answer on that anymore? Funny.

The difference is that mine wasn't an insult.

Ezareth

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Thanks for the info man, I've not really ever looked at raising my stam outside of the champion system. I'm noticing that generally trade-offs are a bit easier in this latest patch. 1.6 was go all out damage or lose.

In my endless quest to science my own science to improve my science, I agree with ToRelax. I too must say, that I have put 40 points into Stamina regain for CP, and 57 into Mana regain for CP. Plus use 1 medium armor piece + passives, and its actually super helpful having 15k stamina and 800 regain as a Mana focused Templar. Though I am on console for the moment, from what ToRelax says sounds like my set up above will be a lot better in the next patch. So yes, it is definitely worth investing early for the CP buffs but also the equipment as well.

CPs are reset with patch so no need to "invest" early. Also if you're a werewolf you're going to lose that stam regen, if you're using drink it will no longer multiply with CP passives, if you were emp you'll lose the passives, any racial stam passives becomes additive instead of multiplicative etc.

Stam recovery is nerfed almost any way you look at it in 2.1.

ToRelax

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

If you are so low on health that the pitiful damage from shieldbreaker kills you, then you would not be able to survive a real damage skill without the shield, no matter what armor and resists you have.

I'm sorry, but WTAF? So, so, so, short-sighted it's unreal.

First off, the damage is not pitiful at all. 2.3k on legendary v16 set, is as much as my crushing shock tooltip

And how effective would you be at killing someone if you tried to do it with nothing but crushing shock?. Not very effective. You would probably fail to kill him unless he was afk.

Thus, pitiful damage.

Unless, of course, I would ignore most active and all passive defense... >_>

Even then. Killing someone with(at most) 4K DPS only takes so long that the target has all the time in the world to do something about it. Against any decent opponent, just spamming shieldbreaker while he is at full HP will quickly result in either the spammer dying (to far more than 4K DPS), or the target bolting twice around a corner(or something similar).

Personally, i only utilize the set after a conventional fight leaves the enemy at very low health, at which point he used to bolt->healing ward->hardened ward which effectively reset the fight back to where it started, and i couldn't do anything about it.

Now, i can.

If there is nothing you can do about it, then all the time in the world won't help you.

Someone is slowly killing you with DPS that will never exceed 4K (and that only if he is using a weighted bow) - and you can't do anything about it? How about pressure him with your own damage (far greater than 4K DPS) so he has other things to worry about than freely spamming light attacks? Roll dodge, cloak, bolt out of LOS, heck, heal yourself, simply healing springs with rapid regeneration will cut that 4K DPS down to almost nothing, buying you even more time to pressure him with your own DPS.

That only works on bad players. A good player will use his own defensive mechanisms, wich are still intact. A NB could cloak a lot, that'd give me 15-20 seconds to kill him if I use a detection potion and eventually time it with Clouding Swarm. A DK would use scales and thus reflect most of my attack if I use them. Both can outheal the damage that still does get through, and a Templar is able to outheal all my damage anyway.

I never said you won't have to work for your wins. Pressure the enemy to interrupt his light attack spam and force him into defensive, use dodges, use heals, break away when needed - streak through him, streak again around corner, there's no way he can CC break fast enough to catch you (he can't block the streak CC because you can't spam light attacks and block at the same time), drop healing ward/hardened ward combo, there's no way he can kill you before the healing pops, etc. etc.

I'm sure i don't have to tell you how to play your class.

There are 3 things with that you can "interrupt his light attack spam" and these don't force him into defense:
CC (wich is broken out of instantly), breaking LOS (wich is not always available) and range (wich is not available against a good player with a gap closer and pretty much giving up anyway, because both players have the same range).
No, you don't have to tell me how to play my class indeed, since you don't seem to know very much about it yourself.

I know about it enough to tell shieldbreaker spam is only a problem for those unwilling to adapt. I have one of every class, by the way.

You end your comment with a little side blow wich I give right back to you at the end of mine and you decide to only answer on that anymore? Funny.

The difference is that mine wasn't an insult.

You're insulted very easily then.

Sharee

Ezareth wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Thanks for the info man, I've not really ever looked at raising my stam outside of the champion system. I'm noticing that generally trade-offs are a bit easier in this latest patch. 1.6 was go all out damage or lose.

In my endless quest to science my own science to improve my science, I agree with ToRelax. I too must say, that I have put 40 points into Stamina regain for CP, and 57 into Mana regain for CP. Plus use 1 medium armor piece + passives, and its actually super helpful having 15k stamina and 800 regain as a Mana focused Templar. Though I am on console for the moment, from what ToRelax says sounds like my set up above will be a lot better in the next patch. So yes, it is definitely worth investing early for the CP buffs but also the equipment as well.

CPs are reset with patch so no need to "invest" early. Also if you're a werewolf you're going to lose that stam regen, if you're using drink it will no longer multiply with CP passives, if you were emp you'll lose the passives, any racial stam passives becomes additive instead of multiplicative etc.

Stam recovery is nerfed almost any way you look at it in 2.1.

Well there are some exceptions. Serpent now provides stamina regen, and regen jewelry enchants have twice the power.

Alcast

Ezareth wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I'd make it take a percentage of total shield strength, so it doesn't make small shields useless...

Yep, called it.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

The best way would be for this set's damage to hit the Wards instead of the HP and scale with the size of the Wards. For example 35% of the ward's value is added on top.

For example if you have a small 5k shield the set will hit ~1.7k extra damage on your shields. Still good DPS boost. If you have stacked a Hardened Ward and Healing Ward and Barrier and have a 30k shield, the set will add ~10k damage on the wards for that first hit.

This will not fix the issue. Then people simply can continue spamming shields without any issue?

I am still for a Minor/Major shield fix.

Shield "Stacking" has never been the problem. I really don't understand why people continue to think that would solve anything.

Shieldspamming, not stacking, spamming is a problem and that is what i said.

Derra

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

If you are so low on health that the pitiful damage from shieldbreaker kills you, then you would not be able to survive a real damage skill without the shield, no matter what armor and resists you have.

I'm sorry, but WTAF? So, so, so, short-sighted it's unreal.

First off, the damage is not pitiful at all. 2.3k on legendary v16 set, is as much as my crushing shock tooltip

And how effective would you be at killing someone if you tried to do it with nothing but crushing shock?. Not very effective. You would probably fail to kill him unless he was afk.

Thus, pitiful damage.

Unless, of course, I would ignore most active and all passive defense... >_>

Even then. Killing someone with(at most) 4K DPS only takes so long that the target has all the time in the world to do something about it. Against any decent opponent, just spamming shieldbreaker while he is at full HP will quickly result in either the spammer dying (to far more than 4K DPS), or the target bolting twice around a corner(or something similar).

Personally, i only utilize the set after a conventional fight leaves the enemy at very low health, at which point he used to bolt->healing ward->hardened ward which effectively reset the fight back to where it started, and i couldn't do anything about it.

Now, i can.

If there is nothing you can do about it, then all the time in the world won't help you.

Someone is slowly killing you with DPS that will never exceed 4K (and that only if he is using a weighted bow) - and you can't do anything about it? How about pressure him with your own damage (far greater than 4K DPS) so he has other things to worry about than freely spamming light attacks? Roll dodge, cloak, bolt out of LOS, heck, heal yourself, simply healing springs with rapid regeneration will cut that 4K DPS down to almost nothing, buying you even more time to pressure him with your own DPS.

That only works on bad players. A good player will use his own defensive mechanisms, wich are still intact. A NB could cloak a lot, that'd give me 15-20 seconds to kill him if I use a detection potion and eventually time it with Clouding Swarm. A DK would use scales and thus reflect most of my attack if I use them. Both can outheal the damage that still does get through, and a Templar is able to outheal all my damage anyway.

I never said you won't have to work for your wins. Pressure the enemy to interrupt his light attack spam and force him into defensive, use dodges, use heals, break away when needed - streak through him, streak again around corner, there's no way he can CC break fast enough to catch you (he can't block the streak CC because you can't spam light attacks and block at the same time), drop healing ward/hardened ward combo, there's no way he can kill you before the healing pops, etc. etc.

I'm sure i don't have to tell you how to play your class.

The thing you don´t seem to understand is: You can lightattack even when you´re pressured. Every lightattack will have the power equal to a weak anytime skill. So his offense is still working while he is playing defensive.