Feedback: Shieldbreaker 5p-set - it´s OP and should not go live.

Lorkhan

what?

Lorkhan

do you mean Brock?

Francescolg

Templar players DO not just heal by spamming Breath of Life. To spam it, you have to give up other stats. If Blazing Shield gets further nurfed, I think most templars will just switch to "more sustainable" heal, even stamina-heal. That means you'll get more HoTs and stand in healing fields (ritual+stamina heal, resto staff, etc.) all day long, and, healing will be even more boring. Players will just adapt and go for max. armor and other forms of defense, which are not absorb shields. ESO will become more and more a "jump and run style mmo", do a roll, activate your 20% dodge-chance, do damage, do the next roll, block, do damage and the like

Players will just adapt and change their defense. If they introduce this set, they kill absorb shields. Instead of simply making all absorb shields HP-based

FearlessOne_2014

That made it official I'm going to change from my sorc to a WB spamming NB. And if I still see lots of people still shield spamming on live I'll be one of the people sitting back at 30m away demolishing players using shields with just spamming cloak and light attacks. WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY ZOS WHY????!?

Pirhana7_ESO

Grimbim wrote: »

The shieldbreaker set is way too strong at the moment. I have no problem with a fair counter against damage shields, but this set is an automatic win against any build relying on damage shields as defense. It's not just a counter if the only thing you have to do is to repeatedly smash the left mouse button. NB's and Sorc's have no instant heal, healing ward is counterproductive and the heal dot's from the resto skilltree are not strong enough to work against the irresistable damage from the 5p bonus. When i have this set equipped on pts, especially Sorc's or NB's using a damage shield are a free face roll kill.

Remember the set puts you at huge disadvantage against anyone NOT using shields, so if it is just a "fair' counter to shields its not worth having on the battle field. The counter that it has a huge advantage over shield users is what actually makes it balanced on the battle field.

You have to look at this set just like you look at Fighetrs guild abilities vs their targets. It is ment to give you a HUGE advantage over your specific targets, not just a fair counter...... because your at a disadvanage over your non targets.

Kupoking

Pls let it go live. Found my set for my stam dude.

thyotirb16_ESO

Honestly, I do not know how they can make this set fun for anyone.

If you decide to use it, you are basically making a gamble and hope really hard your next enemy rely heavily on shields.
There is as much strategy in that as in a heads or tails game.

If your build rely heavily on shields to survive, you are screwed and there is nothing you can do to react to it.
Time to find another build I guess ?

The funny part is that it creates a feedback loop because the usefulness of the set is directly proportional to the popularity of shields builds.
I wonder if the ratio shields builds/set users can find a stable equilibrium point ?

Of course they could nerf it, but that would make it completely useless.

Derra

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

Grimbim wrote: »

The shieldbreaker set is way too strong at the moment. I have no problem with a fair counter against damage shields, but this set is an automatic win against any build relying on damage shields as defense. It's not just a counter if the only thing you have to do is to repeatedly smash the left mouse button. NB's and Sorc's have no instant heal, healing ward is counterproductive and the heal dot's from the resto skilltree are not strong enough to work against the irresistable damage from the 5p bonus. When i have this set equipped on pts, especially Sorc's or NB's using a damage shield are a free face roll kill.

Remember the set puts you at huge disadvantage against anyone NOT using shields, so if it is just a "fair' counter to shields its not worth having on the battle field. The counter that it has a huge advantage over shield users is what actually makes it balanced on the battle field.

You have to look at this set just like you look at Fighetrs guild abilities vs their targets. It is ment to give you a HUGE advantage over your specific targets, not just a fair counter...... because your at a disadvanage over your non targets.

Vampirism and turning into a werewolf are things players willingly do though and are not essential for anyone to have full functionality. You can´t say the same about the sorc shield nor the resto staff shield. Those skills are essential for a working class / weapon.

Kupoking

Sorc being scared of only 1 build while still being unkillable for all the rest.

Derra

thyotirb16_ESO wrote: »

Honestly, I do not know how they can make this set fun for anyone.

If you decide to use it, you are basically making a gamble and hope really hard your next enemy rely heavily on shields.
There is as much strategy in that as in a heads or tails game.

If your build rely heavily on shields to survive, you are screwed and there is nothing you can do to react to it.
Time to find another build I guess ?

The funny part is that it creates a feedback loop because the usefulness of the set is directly proportional to the popularity of shields builds.
I wonder if the ratio shields builds/set users can find a stable equilibrium point ?

Of course they could nerf it, but that would make it completely useless.

The whole point of this topic is to find a way to balance the set without making it useless against shields.

Maybe even something like: Increase dmg on shields for every shield applied on the player by 33% - 50%
This would directly counter shieldstacking without gimping single shields while still keeping the set useful against them.

RoamingRiverElk

Cinbri wrote: »

Seems ZOS just gave up on balancing shieldstacking - here is the result. You can face same decisions for month if you are playing templars. So, nothing will surprise me anymore. ...

And DKs.

Joy_Division

Lorkhan wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjDOD5SBfTk

You do realize you just totally invalidated your point about shields being OP?

A NB who horse ganks and T-bags? Stay classy...

RoamingRiverElk

Alcast wrote: »

block?

Blocking after the IC "update"? That is so funny. ^^

They say play as you like... So many of these changes are definitely not, play as you like...

And this set is just ridiculous. I didn't think ANY change could beat the stamina regen while blocking nerf, but I was wrong...

Grimbim

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

Remember the set puts you at huge disadvantage against anyone NOT using shields, so if it is just a "fair' counter to shields its not worth having on the battle field. The counter that it has a huge advantage over shield users is what actually makes it balanced on the battle field.

The advantage negates nearly all light armor builds and the disadvantage isn't really that bad, compared to other 5p sets. In fact, the 2-4p bonuses are pretty well. To be honest, i don't see the "big" disadavantage you guys are talking about. And defeating your enemy by spamming light attacks isn't exactly what i would call "balance on the battle field" or fun....

tinythinker

Soooo, people are mad at Sorcerors so the one so-so class shield for Templars is now a liability with this new set? Yay! I knew, I just knew, it could get worse.

Off to collect some bets...

OGLezard

I think everyone is forgetting about the new sets that GRANT PLAYERS SHIELDS when healed..... and if a healer is using either of those sets (or both) and you run into the heal and it procs on you and someone is using this set....GG

I am not looking forward to that... glad other people thought about that consequence(sarcasm there) instead of focusing on "erhmagerdsorcsuseshieldsnerfnerfbuffthisset" I will laugh at you all when you run to a heal and get a shield proc'd on you only to have someone using this set kill you cuz you had a shield given to you LOLOLOLOLOL best troll ever!!

I honestly think I am going to run those shield sets for healers and just heal everyone in pvp in HOPES that people run this set. Such good troll mode

Lorkhan

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lorkhan wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjDOD5SBfTk

You do realize you just totally invalidated your point about shields being OP?

A NB who horse ganks and T-bags? Stay classy...

classy is for pvers

Rioht

This set is a huge mistake and I'm amazed that ZoS continues to buff it.

This is a lazy attempt to deal with sheld stacking, and destroys one of the usable metas for sorcerers.

Why should we be forced to equip a resto staff as bar 2 on every single build?

Why not just make shields... wait for it... Not stackable?

omfgitsbatman

The people that are saying nobody will wear this set are very wrong. The second people realize how much damage this set does, it will be worn by a very large percentage of people.
It's not a very situational 5 pc considering that sun shield, conjured ward, and obsidian shield are used in most builds for their respective classes and magicka nightblades typically run healing ward as a heal. Also for non templar healers all across the board, healing ward is the only Oh Sh*t heal that they have access to. Not to mention barrier.
Given that 97% + of people in cyro either run damage shields or can take advantage of their group's damage shields, this set is going to be very very strong.
Imagine a bow stamina dk using this with molten armaments and champion points into light and heavy attack damage. You will die to auto attacks. Not much you can do about it either. If you stop using the damage shields, then you will get barraged by other attacks that you will be forced to brute heal through. If you get close to low on health, good luck because at that point, the auto attacks are an execute as well as a counter to your class shield.

SeptimusDova

one word OOPS!!

olsborg

Yea this set is completely OP, it needs a nerf in the form of some cooldown or lower dmg.

Tankqull

it needs a CD or what i prefer its dmg should be added to the dmg dealt if you hit a shield and not a bleed through.

Sentinel

I'm very surprised. People tested and learned of this set almost as soon as the PTS became live. I tested it myself. The old value did almost the exact same thing and became a counter to sorcs by light attack spamming. At the time though, it did fine enough at its job. Not great mind you, when it was 1k you could easily outheal that with almost anything. I dueled a sorc using this set and a bow, he won once, I won once. Using terrain, heals and CCs to your advantage can break the light attack spam and allow time to recover. But this set wasn't particularly valuable when it was 1k. Its only true advantage was against sorcs. NBs could cloak out of it and burst, DKs and temps could heal.

While shields are in a much better place in this pts version than before, I wouldn't want to see this set gather dust. The old amount being 1k was a bit underwhelming overall. Perhaps the 2k is a bit much, perhaps not, but it's gotta have a wider use than before. I still plan on only using the 4pc bonus on live for the shield breaker set.

Akavir_Sentinel

You mean you won't be able to sit there and take on 20 players with your infini-shields anymore? And then bolt off unscathed into the distance? I would say I feel sorry for you, but I don't.

I hope you enjoyed massive shield stacking while it lasted.

OGLezard

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

You mean you won't be able to sit there and take on 20 players with your infini-shields anymore? And then bolt off unscathed into the distance? I would say I feel sorry for you, but I don't.

I hope you enjoyed massive shield stacking while it lasted.

but it is ok for people to get around 0 stam regen(still permablock)..... or to bypass heal debuffs in pvp(10% life to full instantly)..... yea makes sense I suppose....

Edit: for clarification

cazlonb16_ESO

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

You mean you won't be able to sit there and take on 20 players with your infini-shields anymore? And then bolt off unscathed into the distance? I would say I feel sorry for you, but I don't.

I hope you enjoyed massive shield stacking while it lasted.

So every non-Sorc shield user gets Streak in 2.1 ? Cool. Just need to tell ZOS, cos they didn't get the memo yet judging by what's on the PTS.

FearlessOne_2014

OGLezard wrote: »

I think everyone is forgetting about the new sets that GRANT PLAYERS SHIELDS when healed..... and if a healer is using either of those sets (or both) and you run into the heal and it procs on you and someone is using this set....GG

I am not looking forward to that... glad other people thought about that consequence(sarcasm there) instead of focusing on "erhmagerdsorcsuseshieldsnerfnerfbuffthisset" I will laugh at you all when you run to a heal and get a shield proc'd on you only to have someone using this set kill you cuz you had a shield given to you LOLOLOLOLOL best troll ever!!

I honestly think I am going to run those shield sets for healers and just heal everyone in pvp in HOPES that people run this set. Such good troll mode

Indeed HAHAHA!

OGLezard

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

I think everyone is forgetting about the new sets that GRANT PLAYERS SHIELDS when healed..... and if a healer is using either of those sets (or both) and you run into the heal and it procs on you and someone is using this set....GG

I am not looking forward to that... glad other people thought about that consequence(sarcasm there) instead of focusing on "erhmagerdsorcsuseshieldsnerfnerfbuffthisset" I will laugh at you all when you run to a heal and get a shield proc'd on you only to have someone using this set kill you cuz you had a shield given to you LOLOLOLOLOL best troll ever!!

I honestly think I am going to run those shield sets for healers and just heal everyone in pvp in HOPES that people run this set. Such good troll mode

Indeed HAHAHA!

@fearlessone_2014 good to see someone noticed what I was saying lol no one is even discussing that in this thread and just jumping on the " that will teach sorc to use their only reliable defense" train lol

Dracane

Lorkhan wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lorkhan wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjDOD5SBfTk

You do realize you just totally invalidated your point about shields being OP?

A NB who horse ganks and T-bags? Stay classy...

classy is for pvers

As if your name wouldn't already be bad enough, false god.
@Thalmor-Nordmaster I guess you know who Lorkhan is and what he means to us.

Akavir_Sentinel

Long story short, you're just going to have to adjust your playstyle or loadout, just like tanks are having to. You'll live. Not everyone is going to use this set, and not everyone uses shields.