Feedback: Shieldbreaker 5p-set - it´s OP and should not go live.

SRIBES

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Don't worry my fellow sorcerers, I'm on it! Counters incoming very soon in the form of a video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZlzRqtwBgI
Just watched your video
Surprised you actually went out and looked for a counter to a set instead of screaming "nerf!" On the forums.. Must be a first. Nice job man.

SeptimusDova

.good counter

FearlessOne_2014

Iyas wrote: »

Shieldbreaker Set is doing fulldmg against blockchars.

Maybe some of the HAHAHAHAH SORC ONLY guys see the problem with the set. Get a random shield from anywhere and get destroyed

https://youtu.be/6Ao1xmfFMFY

https://youtu.be/6Ao1xmfFMFY

I already talked with some AD about making toons run on DC and EP with this set and coordinate with AD raid leads. Right before a big zerg v zerg battle "just 2 to 3" people are going to run in the middle of the DC or EP zergs and cast barrier. Then our forces would just ROLF stomp them with the shield breaker set as it bypasses all mitigation of said people have a shield up. Then it GG and some laughs and rinse and repeat. Those of the exploits awaiting "ALL" not just sorcs if this set make it to live as is.

SeptimusDova

I think this set will probably be reduced to 1.2-1.5k. 1k seemed anemic 2 seems op

Soulac

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Iyas wrote: »

Shieldbreaker Set is doing fulldmg against blockchars.

Maybe some of the HAHAHAHAH SORC ONLY guys see the problem with the set. Get a random shield from anywhere and get destroyed

https://youtu.be/6Ao1xmfFMFY

https://youtu.be/6Ao1xmfFMFY

I already talked with some AD about making toons run on DC and EP with this set and coordinate with AD raid leads. Right before a big zerg v zerg battle "just 2 to 3" people are going to run in the middle of the DC or EP zergs and cast barrier. Then our forces would just ROLF stomp them with the shield breaker set as it bypasses all mitigation of said people have a shield up. Then it GG and some laughs and rinse and repeat. Those of the exploits awaiting "ALL" not just sorcs if this set make it to live as is.

So you want to light attack them to death? Good luck.

In my opinion shields, or rather healing ward needs a counter. Shield breaker is indeed strong, looks buggy and should get a fix, but keep in mind that not everyone's gonna use this set and the fifth bonus kinda needs to be good, otherwise the set isn't worth wearing.
Mage's counter to a counter looks good btw, used the same as Magicka NB back last year and the heal is really awesome.
But now imagine you got two noob Stamina builds using a Bow light attacking you..

SeptimusDova

A Khajiit light attacks by merely twitching ones whiskers !!

Erondil

Xeniph wrote: »

Sure it looks strong in the video. The Sorc is literally not doing anything but refreshing shileds, and besides that it took him quite a while to kill that sorc, with what looked like the clip being sped up.

I wouldn't say that the person "destroyed" the Sorc, since all he had to do was slot an actual heal to counter the measly 2.1k getting through the shield. It is clear though, folks will have to rethink their skill usage. Which is a good thing imo.


And to all you folks implying that shield stackers only rely on defense from shields and don't slot at least one heal, you are over dramatizing things. All a player will need to do is slot a heal to compensate for the damage getting through the shield until the ward pops.

Classes can use their abilities to offset, like-

DK- GDB/Whip exploit
Sorc- Dark Deal/Unstable clanfear heal/Surge (Add Blood Magic to offence)
Templar- Any of their heals
NB- Swallow Soul/Path/Sap

And lets not forget Springs/Combat prayer. Looks like it's time to start theory crafting some builds. This is assuming the set even becomes popular, which I highly doubt since it really is only effective against certain builds.

Did you even watched the video? Derra is spamming rapid regeneration, entropy and combat prayer, and still dies from light attacks spam because he got harness magicka up...
Also lol on pts swallow soul is like 800 heal/2sec at best, sap and path are even less

Derra

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

So you have to wear some heavy armor, run purge and slot a heal or two. Sounds like a perfect description of a Templar on live.

With the exception that a templar on live has a burstheal that he can heal his grpmates with. A nontemplar giving out healing ward to low hp targets makes them freekills. But yeah - almost like a templar - almost.

How is group utility even relevant? The discussion is about sorc survivability and whether shieldbreaker is too powerful.

And I have no clue what your point is with healing ward. You know sorcs that spam healing ward when no one has taken damage yet? Or think the result is much different coming from the typical templar doing the same? Or templars PvP with high health?

My sorc has 14k health and some change, and I use healing ward any time my hardened and/or harness is bursted and I actually lose health. It's the main reason I can 1vX. Sure, my templar has breath of life, but even with 2500 magicka regen, if I spam BoL, I'd be dead at about the same time as the sorc in the video.

The only templar with survivability comparable to a sorc is a blocking stamplar. I have played around with that, and it's arguably more powerful in 1vX than stacking shields. However, there won't be many blocking stamplars after the next patch. While shieldbreaker will be used by people that consider sorcs such a threat that they sacrifice better gear to counter them, block has been completely eviscerated for everyone.

Not sure I have ever seen a sorc block build.

I agree the bug needs fixed, but that's about it.

You seem to have no clue about grp healing in smallgrp situations. Let me try to explain it to you: I am not a templar. I am the healer of my grp. My equivalent to a templar spamming breath of live to keep the hp of his whole grp up is to spam healing ward in high pressure situations.
With this set (and this is my main concern with the set - not sorc survivability - albeit i think its ridiculous that i have to use three skillslots and not use my classes main defense to even combat it) i can no longer perform the role of grp healer/support reliably because i will kill my grp members by using my only burst heal.

This set is not well thought out (i´d dare to say no one thought about it at all - they just liked the idea and went with it) in terms to healing for non templars in grp pvp.

DKs are also going to take a beating by their faction members when casting igneous shield for the healbuff because it´s an AOE shield other players can´t avoid getting. Something along the lines of: "THANKS YOU STUPID F*** FOR KILLING ME WITH YOUR SHIELDSPAM"

Dracane

k2blader wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

Grimbim wrote: »

The shieldbreaker set is way too strong at the moment. I have no problem with a fair counter against damage shields, but this set is an automatic win against any build relying on damage shields as defense. It's not just a counter if the only thing you have to do is to repeatedly smash the left mouse button. NB's and Sorc's have no instant heal, healing ward is counterproductive and the heal dot's from the resto skilltree are not strong enough to work against the irresistable damage from the 5p bonus. When i have this set equipped on pts, especially Sorc's or NB's using a damage shield are a free face roll kill.

Remember the set puts you at huge disadvantage against anyone NOT using shields, so if it is just a "fair' counter to shields its not worth having on the battle field. The counter that it has a huge advantage over shield users is what actually makes it balanced on the battle field.

You have to look at this set just like you look at Fighetrs guild abilities vs their targets. It is ment to give you a HUGE advantage over your specific targets, not just a fair counter...... because your at a disadvanage over your non targets.

Vampirism and turning into a werewolf are things players willingly do though and are not essential for anyone to have full functionality. You can´t say the same about the sorc shield nor the resto staff shield. Those skills are essential for a working class / weapon.

The crying over "sorc shields" has gone on so long that is what people believe is the problem without understanding the cause, and they will never change their minds. Zeni forced sorcs in that direction for survivability; so just because you're a magicka sorc you're automatically hated and blamed even if you don't run a heavy Bastion build, or exploits, (and never bolted into the horizon either.)

So true O.o the first thing I read when I kill people in Cyrodiil 'Exploiter' I mean what ? What am I exploiting ?
Every day I have to face annoying, clueless people who can't get over their own misery. Is there a magelight flying around me ? No. Do I have bound armor on ? No. I wish I could smash screenshots of my skill bars in their face. Auri-El...

Derra

Teiji wrote: »

Iyas wrote: »

Shieldbreaker Set is doing fulldmg against blockchars.

Maybe some of the HAHAHAHAH SORC ONLY guys see the problem with the set. Get a random shield from anywhere and get destroyed

https://youtu.be/6Ao1xmfFMFY

https://youtu.be/6Ao1xmfFMFY

Tel Var Stone gear is now actually strong as advertised! Amazing, ZoS said TV stone gear is strong and it's true!

If damage shields are not going to be balanced, this set should stay as it is. You can't defend against this because this is a fact and a consequence of instead of adjusting soft caps, removing them entirely. Nick Konkle would never let something like this go on.

Damage shields being brought into line would've been the first thing he brought up in team meetings. Yet they're immune to dots and they're immune to crits, re-dodging has a consequence, blocking has a consequence, shield stacking has no consequence.

Do you know what this set does?

It finally adds a consequence to shield stacking.

Said it before; this set is a placeholder for shield stacking. I love every class in-game, they're all great; this whole manipulation of information in order to make your videogame time easier, or to incite a thread which is "more fun and colourful" is not nice.

Bolt escape away twice and take your free AP / TV stones from their corpse as you curse them down.

It does not add a consequence to shieldstacking it makes the use of any shield in pvp highly undesireable or harmful. This leads to non templar healers being completely unvaible.
Magica nightblades loose the only vaible selfheal they have access to because it is a shield by design.
It harms everyone hit by a random shield they did not even cast themselves (random healing ward / barrier => prepare to die).

It is not only powerful or too powerful it excludes certain playstyle or classes from cyrodiil.

SeptimusDova

As I said earlier this set will be adjusted back down Zos raised it after the feedback said it was lackluster. Now it seems OP. So a downgrade is in order they will make it so. Stop fretting and going rabid like an Altimer on roids! This is why we test things and break things and find things and lose things.

Dracane

Xeniph wrote: »

Sure it looks strong in the video. The Sorc is literally not doing anything but refreshing shileds, and besides that it took him quite a while to kill that sorc, with what looked like the clip being sped up.

I wouldn't say that the person "destroyed" the Sorc, since all he had to do was slot an actual heal to counter the measly 2.1k getting through the shield. It is clear though, folks will have to rethink their skill usage. Which is a good thing imo.


And to all you folks implying that shield stackers only rely on defense from shields and don't slot at least one heal, you are over dramatizing things. All a player will need to do is slot a heal to compensate for the damage getting through the shield until the ward pops.

Classes can use their abilities to offset, like-

DK- GDB/Whip exploit
Sorc- Dark Deal/Unstable clanfear heal/Surge (Add Blood Magic to offence)
Templar- Any of their heals
NB- Swallow Soul/Path/Sap

And lets not forget Springs/Combat prayer. Looks like it's time to start theory crafting some builds. This is assuming the set even becomes popular, which I highly doubt since it really is only effective against certain builds.

Uhm Derra spammed strong heals all the time and wasn't able to survive this longer than a few seconds, he was not only spamming shields.

Shields should have a counter, everything in this game has a counter. But this counter is too easy and too strong in my opinion. But if it helps kicking all the annoying noob Sorcerers out of the game and make them reroll Magicka Nightblade, then it might be actually usefull. Few Sorcs will have the nerves and patience to keep on playing Sorcerer, if all it takes are a few light attacks from behind to kill them.

Not sure if AvA will be a good place for any Sorcerer or caster that relies on shield if this goes online as it is.
Roll dodge and block may have counters, but you can still rely on both as a defense. This however totally negates shields. It's not counter, it's a destroyer that makes them totally useless and unreliable.

BuggeX

Take the Most uselles Crafting Set, Chance this set to a tank Set, with hp/mres/armor/hp regn.
and as a p5 give it a passive which block the true dmg from the shildbraker.

bowmanz607

Erondil wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Sure it looks strong in the video. The Sorc is literally not doing anything but refreshing shileds, and besides that it took him quite a while to kill that sorc, with what looked like the clip being sped up.

I wouldn't say that the person "destroyed" the Sorc, since all he had to do was slot an actual heal to counter the measly 2.1k getting through the shield. It is clear though, folks will have to rethink their skill usage. Which is a good thing imo.


And to all you folks implying that shield stackers only rely on defense from shields and don't slot at least one heal, you are over dramatizing things. All a player will need to do is slot a heal to compensate for the damage getting through the shield until the ward pops.

Classes can use their abilities to offset, like-

DK- GDB/Whip exploit
Sorc- Dark Deal/Unstable clanfear heal/Surge (Add Blood Magic to offence)
Templar- Any of their heals
NB- Swallow Soul/Path/Sap

And lets not forget Springs/Combat prayer. Looks like it's time to start theory crafting some builds. This is assuming the set even becomes popular, which I highly doubt since it really is only effective against certain builds.

Did you even watched the video? Derra is spamming rapid regeneration, entropy and combat prayer, and still dies from light attacks spam because he got harness magicka up...
Also lol on pts swallow soul is like 800 heal/2sec at best, sap and path are even less

Ummm don't have your sheild up then. Break down the video. It took about 17 light attacks to kill first time about 22 the second and about 32 the thrid time. The healing was obviously playing a roll. Also, don't have a sheild on then. Moreover, who is going to let someone in a fight spam 17 or 22 or 32 light attacks on them. This dose not take into account a real fight with ppl moveing, using cc, dodging etc. You force others to have to move, use buffa, heal, dodge etc which stops constant spamming allowing other heals to take more effect. You also are still surviving longer than you would then getting suprise attack spam or other spam abilities. Overall you still take less damage but not none. If anything the video shows how long it takes to take someone down not in a real battle scenario.

olsborg

The insane thing, is 2150 dmg doesnt sound like too much now, but on pts its a huge dmg, because of the battlespirit there, this unresistable dmg is almost 50% of a crystal shard to the face.

The dmg should be reduced or there should be a cooldown of 4 seconds to the procc.

actosh

Well, then i demand a cooldown on molag kena and all the other imp city sets.^^
Additional no magicka reg while being shielded *g*

Dracane

olsborg wrote: »

The insane thing, is 2150 dmg doesnt sound like too much now, but on pts its a huge dmg, because of the battlespirit there, this unresistable dmg is almost 50% of a crystal shard to the face.

The dmg should be reduced or there should be a cooldown of 4 seconds to the procc.

A cooldown might help. 2 or 3 seconds should balance it.
We don't have enough time to do many tests. So there will be unbalanced things going live

SeptimusDova

On a good note with this armor Khajiit will now rule the Dominion!!

bowmanz607

olsborg wrote: »

The insane thing, is 2150 dmg doesnt sound like too much now, but on pts its a huge dmg, because of the battlespirit there, this unresistable dmg is almost 50% of a crystal shard to the face.

The dmg should be reduced or there should be a cooldown of 4 seconds to the procc.

Considering I still get hit for 8 or 10k frags and the same with suprise attack it is still not 50%. Adding a cooldown even if it was enough to still proc every other hit would make it hit like it did before the buff.

ItsRejectz

actosh wrote: »

Well, then i demand a cooldown on molag kena and all the other imp city sets.^^
Additional no magicka reg while being shielded *g*

I demand you go away

Tankqull

switch it from light to (fully charged) heavy attacks.

SeptimusDova

I demand a Meow emote

ItsRejectz

This isn't even just a sorc issue now, this set as it stands will break PvP more than anything has previously

Soulac

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Sure it looks strong in the video. The Sorc is literally not doing anything but refreshing shileds, and besides that it took him quite a while to kill that sorc, with what looked like the clip being sped up.

I wouldn't say that the person "destroyed" the Sorc, since all he had to do was slot an actual heal to counter the measly 2.1k getting through the shield. It is clear though, folks will have to rethink their skill usage. Which is a good thing imo.


And to all you folks implying that shield stackers only rely on defense from shields and don't slot at least one heal, you are over dramatizing things. All a player will need to do is slot a heal to compensate for the damage getting through the shield until the ward pops.

Classes can use their abilities to offset, like-

DK- GDB/Whip exploit
Sorc- Dark Deal/Unstable clanfear heal/Surge (Add Blood Magic to offence)
Templar- Any of their heals
NB- Swallow Soul/Path/Sap

And lets not forget Springs/Combat prayer. Looks like it's time to start theory crafting some builds. This is assuming the set even becomes popular, which I highly doubt since it really is only effective against certain builds.

Did you even watched the video? Derra is spamming rapid regeneration, entropy and combat prayer, and still dies from light attacks spam because he got harness magicka up...
Also lol on pts swallow soul is like 800 heal/2sec at best, sap and path are even less

Ummm don't have your sheild up then. Break down the video. It took about 17 light attacks to kill first time about 22 the second and about 32 the thrid time. The healing was obviously playing a roll. Also, don't have a sheild on then. Moreover, who is going to let someone in a fight spam 17 or 22 or 32 light attacks on them. This dose not take into account a real fight with ppl moveing, using cc, dodging etc. You force others to have to move, use buffa, heal, dodge etc which stops constant spamming allowing other heals to take more effect. You also are still surviving longer than you would then getting suprise attack spam or other spam abilities. Overall you still take less damage but not none. If anything the video shows how long it takes to take someone down not in a real battle scenario.

Light Attacks scaling with your Stamina like from a Bow are not able to destroy Harness Magicka, the sorc can't remove the Harness Magicka Shield by himself alone, only waiting will help.
These Light Attacks are ignoring the Harness Magicka, so why should you get additional dmg in this case?

Tankqull wrote: »

switch it from light to (fully charged) heavy attacks.

Keep in mind that some heavy attacks are undodgeable and not interruptable.

SeptimusDova wrote: »

I demand a Meow emote

Agreed!

SeptimusDova

I can see it used by archers on keep walls. reduce it to 1.2 1.5 tops damage

bowmanz607

Soulac wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Sure it looks strong in the video. The Sorc is literally not doing anything but refreshing shileds, and besides that it took him quite a while to kill that sorc, with what looked like the clip being sped up.

I wouldn't say that the person "destroyed" the Sorc, since all he had to do was slot an actual heal to counter the measly 2.1k getting through the shield. It is clear though, folks will have to rethink their skill usage. Which is a good thing imo.


And to all you folks implying that shield stackers only rely on defense from shields and don't slot at least one heal, you are over dramatizing things. All a player will need to do is slot a heal to compensate for the damage getting through the shield until the ward pops.

Classes can use their abilities to offset, like-

DK- GDB/Whip exploit
Sorc- Dark Deal/Unstable clanfear heal/Surge (Add Blood Magic to offence)
Templar- Any of their heals
NB- Swallow Soul/Path/Sap

And lets not forget Springs/Combat prayer. Looks like it's time to start theory crafting some builds. This is assuming the set even becomes popular, which I highly doubt since it really is only effective against certain builds.

Did you even watched the video? Derra is spamming rapid regeneration, entropy and combat prayer, and still dies from light attacks spam because he got harness magicka up...
Also lol on pts swallow soul is like 800 heal/2sec at best, sap and path are even less

Ummm don't have your sheild up then. Break down the video. It took about 17 light attacks to kill first time about 22 the second and about 32 the thrid time. The healing was obviously playing a roll. Also, don't have a sheild on then. Moreover, who is going to let someone in a fight spam 17 or 22 or 32 light attacks on them. This dose not take into account a real fight with ppl moveing, using cc, dodging etc. You force others to have to move, use buffa, heal, dodge etc which stops constant spamming allowing other heals to take more effect. You also are still surviving longer than you would then getting suprise attack spam or other spam abilities. Overall you still take less damage but not none. If anything the video shows how long it takes to take someone down not in a real battle scenario.

Light Attacks scaling with your Stamina like from a Bow are not able to destroy Harness Magicka, the sorc can't remove the Harness Magicka Shield by himself alone, only waiting will help.
These Light Attacks are ignoring the Harness Magicka, so why should you get additional dmg in this case?

Tankqull wrote: »

switch it from light to (fully charged) heavy attacks.

Keep in mind that some heavy attacks are undodgeable and not interruptable.

SeptimusDova wrote: »

I demand a Meow emote

Agreed!

You make an interesting point on the extra damage from harnass. That should be looked at and change. At that point it is over the top. Getting a full heavy attack with an extra 2k damage is drastic.

Tankqull

Soulac wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Sure it looks strong in the video. The Sorc is literally not doing anything but refreshing shileds, and besides that it took him quite a while to kill that sorc, with what looked like the clip being sped up.

I wouldn't say that the person "destroyed" the Sorc, since all he had to do was slot an actual heal to counter the measly 2.1k getting through the shield. It is clear though, folks will have to rethink their skill usage. Which is a good thing imo.


And to all you folks implying that shield stackers only rely on defense from shields and don't slot at least one heal, you are over dramatizing things. All a player will need to do is slot a heal to compensate for the damage getting through the shield until the ward pops.

Classes can use their abilities to offset, like-

DK- GDB/Whip exploit
Sorc- Dark Deal/Unstable clanfear heal/Surge (Add Blood Magic to offence)
Templar- Any of their heals
NB- Swallow Soul/Path/Sap

And lets not forget Springs/Combat prayer. Looks like it's time to start theory crafting some builds. This is assuming the set even becomes popular, which I highly doubt since it really is only effective against certain builds.

Did you even watched the video? Derra is spamming rapid regeneration, entropy and combat prayer, and still dies from light attacks spam because he got harness magicka up...
Also lol on pts swallow soul is like 800 heal/2sec at best, sap and path are even less

Ummm don't have your sheild up then. Break down the video. It took about 17 light attacks to kill first time about 22 the second and about 32 the thrid time. The healing was obviously playing a roll. Also, don't have a sheild on then. Moreover, who is going to let someone in a fight spam 17 or 22 or 32 light attacks on them. This dose not take into account a real fight with ppl moveing, using cc, dodging etc. You force others to have to move, use buffa, heal, dodge etc which stops constant spamming allowing other heals to take more effect. You also are still surviving longer than you would then getting suprise attack spam or other spam abilities. Overall you still take less damage but not none. If anything the video shows how long it takes to take someone down not in a real battle scenario.

Light Attacks scaling with your Stamina like from a Bow are not able to destroy Harness Magicka, the sorc can't remove the Harness Magicka Shield by himself alone, only waiting will help.
These Light Attacks are ignoring the Harness Magicka, so why should you get additional dmg in this case?

Tankqull wrote: »

switch it from light to (fully charged) heavy attacks.

Keep in mind that some heavy attacks are undodgeable and not interruptable.

SeptimusDova wrote: »

I demand a Meow emote

Agreed!

you are right but wich caster using destro/resto staffs is willingly using a medium stamina centric set?

another option would be instead of bypassing shields make it additional dmg if the person is shielded that way shields can be depletet extremly quick.

ItsRejectz

Can we get rid of one of usless traits and get one that reduces unresistable damage please zenimax.. lol

olsborg

bowmanz607 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

The insane thing, is 2150 dmg doesnt sound like too much now, but on pts its a huge dmg, because of the battlespirit there, this unresistable dmg is almost 50% of a crystal shard to the face.

The dmg should be reduced or there should be a cooldown of 4 seconds to the procc.

Considering I still get hit for 8 or 10k frags and the same with suprise attack it is still not 50%. Adding a cooldown even if it was enough to still proc every other hit would make it hit like it did before the buff.

You were most likely hit by a procced cf and a crit. Thats 70% increased dmg on it. When I hardcasted cf and it didnt crit on pts, I hit ppl for around 5.5k with my regular v14 setup and gear.

2150 x2 = 4300 wich is, as I said

this unresistable dmg is almost 50% of a crystal shard to the face.

Xeniph

Erondil wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Sure it looks strong in the video. The Sorc is literally not doing anything but refreshing shileds, and besides that it took him quite a while to kill that sorc, with what looked like the clip being sped up.

I wouldn't say that the person "destroyed" the Sorc, since all he had to do was slot an actual heal to counter the measly 2.1k getting through the shield. It is clear though, folks will have to rethink their skill usage. Which is a good thing imo.


And to all you folks implying that shield stackers only rely on defense from shields and don't slot at least one heal, you are over dramatizing things. All a player will need to do is slot a heal to compensate for the damage getting through the shield until the ward pops.

Classes can use their abilities to offset, like-

DK- GDB/Whip exploit
Sorc- Dark Deal/Unstable clanfear heal/Surge (Add Blood Magic to offence)
Templar- Any of their heals
NB- Swallow Soul/Path/Sap

And lets not forget Springs/Combat prayer. Looks like it's time to start theory crafting some builds. This is assuming the set even becomes popular, which I highly doubt since it really is only effective against certain builds.

Did you even watched the video? Derra is spamming rapid regeneration, entropy and combat prayer, and still dies from light attacks spam because he got harness magicka up...
Also lol on pts swallow soul is like 800 heal/2sec at best, sap and path are even less

I did indeed watch it. Did you see Legendary's video? As I said, it's clearly time to theory craft.

Legendary is also standing in caltrops. And I am sure people will find plenty of other ways to counter this damage.