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There CANNOT be access gates to the Imperial City paid DLC
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VincentBlanquin✭✭✭
It depend on who defend better inside the City, and why we should get bored dude? it s pvp and if you like it you don't, and look you have brought a new scenario, more things to do, inside and outside the city.VincentBlanquin wrote: »VincentBlanquin wrote: »bob.ellisonb16_ESO wrote: »I am very against the carebear approach of open access, and carebears in general, they ruin the context in a game.
The whole reason darkness falls in DAOC was cool was because it was controlled by PVP. It wasn't handed to you, you had to work for it, sometimes 2 weeks went by without having access.
When your realm is the underdog it creates leaders and communities to overcome, organize, startegize, now it just creates a bunch of whiners.
Why do people even want to play a PvP MMO if everything is handed to them...
AGREE 100% , making 1 campagin with open acces, only will cause lagg and zerg. IC it's like Darkness Falls Daoc concept, and there was working awesome for pvp lovers.
Carebears, get out of here if you don't like pvp.
dont get these points. so what now? every aliance will get their buff campaign for IC entering....
But you are not certain of this, I could organize a group to conquer your keeps,and kick you out, while you are inside trying to defend and not getting kicked, another group of your realm could fight my group of conquering outside....... the scenario it's various,and brings variety to the pvp aspect, on the other hand IC opens for all will be monotonous , most of ppl will pvp inside the City, causing zerglagg, and Cyrodiil will be sad.
maybe you can organize group to conquer my keeps once, twice or little more, but after some time your group get bored of that and i will have my safe campaign
why bored? because cyrodiil is stale and boring now after so many months of various problems. everybody just want to go to imp city and be there
Irwen Vincinter - Nord - Dragonknight
Irw´en - Bosmer - Nightblade0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1. It does not change much. It's not like people were just where figths were about to start before IC. If needed - they will come and def/attack. We are talking about a few organized guilds that make cyrodiil yellow or red.
A defending force that is fighting a boss on the 3rd floor of the imperial sewers won't be able to respond to an attack against one of their keeps nearly as fast as if they were sitting at aleswell twiddling their thumbs.
The ability to react to a keep attack when half the defending realm is inside IC will be nowhere near to what it is today, when everyone is just waiting for something to happen so they can jump in and see some action. IC is full of action, all the time. Even if some defenders stay outside (probably because they did not buy IC), they will be hopelessly outnumbered.
It worked in DAoC, it will work in TESO.2. It is possible, that there will be no such campaign, which was demonstrated by OP.
In his example, there is no IC yet that would weaken the dominant faction, influencing the balance.
Not to mention - it is a sample from 1am in the morning. That is hardly repesentative of the typical power balance.Edited by Sharee on August 10, 2015 9:04AM1 -
Hiero_Glyph✭✭✭✭✭It is the same thing. In both PvE and PvP, it is theoretically possible you will never succeed. The only difference is that the threshold in PvE is static, while the threshold in PvP is dynamic.
That is what i was saying above - the PvP threshold is dynamic. This could mean it will be harder, but also could mean it will be easier than the PvE one.
If there is any difference then they are not the same thing. They can be similar but as long as a difference exists then they are no longer the same since you can discern between them. Also, since the PvP threshold is dynamic it will never be the same as another PvP campaigns or as the PvE threshold as the conditions are always changing; each will be harder or easier comparatively but never the same.Edited by Hiero_Glyph on August 10, 2015 2:40PM2 -
byrom101b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »"The game is an entertainments SERVICE, and a service you CANNOT access is a compensation issue."
As you say, the service provided is the game itself. As long as you are able to log into the game and play it, no court will rule that you cannot access the service.
You don't get it that a separately paid for dlc package is regarded as a discrete product from a consumer rights point of view, I get that you don't, really... so let's leave that point shall we...
So what about the other Elephant in the room!?
Having forcibly 'encouraged' everyone to go to IC for the only appreciable progression now on offer in the game, Cyrodiil server population will be capped out a lot, and people will not be able to get in during those lengthy periods, no. matter. what.
Place in queue - 567...
... if you can somehow rationalise this as anything other than a de-facto denial of service move by Zenimax, I shall be moved to salute your extreme grand-mastery of circular logic and self-reinforcing misapprehension.
Who in their right mind is going to want to wait 2 hours to avail themselves of only a chance of gaining access to IC in a lagged out Cyrodiil?
Which regulator is going to see this as an acceptable level of service?
If there is an info-release from Zenimax stating the many extra servers they are going to put online, or an SLA guaranteeing access to Cyrodiil within 'x' minutes of entering the game, then show it to me, I would be interested to read it.
Otherwise, for this reason alone, never mind the rest of it, Zenimax are going to be failing to provide acceptable service levels and will be wide open to consumer led regulator leverage.
Expect to see extra servers thrown online in a complete mad panic if they don't do this in advance....Edited by byrom101b16_ESO on August 10, 2015 3:48PM2 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hiero_Glyph wrote: »It is the same thing. In both PvE and PvP, it is theoretically possible you will never succeed. The only difference is that the threshold in PvE is static, while the threshold in PvP is dynamic.
That is what i was saying above - the PvP threshold is dynamic. This could mean it will be harder, but also could mean it will be easier than the PvE one.
If there is any difference then they are not the same thing. They can be similar but as long as a difference exists then they are no longer the same since you can discern between them. Also, since the PvP threshold is dynamic it will never be the same as another PvP campaigns or as the PvE threshold as the conditions are always changing; each will be harder or easier comparatively but never the same.
The 'same thing' i am referring to is that both PvE and PvP have a theoretical chance that the player will never meet the requirements to get the reward. I did not mean that PvP and PvE are the same thing. I thought that was clear.0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »Having forcibly 'encouraged' everyone to go to IC for the only appreciable progression now on offer in the game, Cyrodiil server population will be capped out a lot, and people will not be able to get in during those lengthy periods, no. matter. what.
Place in queue - 567...
... if you can somehow rationalise this as anything other than a de-facto denial of service move by Zenimax, I shall be moved to salute your extreme grand-mastery of circular logic and self-reinforcing misapprehension.
You are not waiting in a queue because ZOS made you to, you are waiting because you decided to.
ZOS gave you an option to join cyrodiil instantly (by playing for a side that does not have a queue).byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »Who in their right mind is going to want to wait 2 hours to avail themselves of only a chance of gaining access to IC in a lagged out Cyrodiil?
Which regulator is going to see this as an acceptable level of service?
The regulator which sees ZOS has multiple campaigns running, and nothing prevents you from playing in one that does not have a queue (or on a side that doesn't have a queue) except your own unwillingness to do so.
Edited by Sharee on August 10, 2015 5:10PM0 -
Hiero_Glyph✭✭✭✭✭Hiero_Glyph wrote: »It is the same thing. In both PvE and PvP, it is theoretically possible you will never succeed. The only difference is that the threshold in PvE is static, while the threshold in PvP is dynamic.
That is what i was saying above - the PvP threshold is dynamic. This could mean it will be harder, but also could mean it will be easier than the PvE one.
If there is any difference then they are not the same thing. They can be similar but as long as a difference exists then they are no longer the same since you can discern between them. Also, since the PvP threshold is dynamic it will never be the same as another PvP campaigns or as the PvE threshold as the conditions are always changing; each will be harder or easier comparatively but never the same.
The 'same thing' i am referring to is that both PvE and PvP have a theoretical chance that the player will never meet the requirements to get the reward. I did not mean that PvP and PvE are the same thing. I thought that was clear.
Except a X% and Y% chance are anything but the same. Once applied, these values will differ greatly as one may always be guaranteed for some and never possible for others. Personally I look forward to seeing what happens when gated access is applied to the PTS, although unless ZoS purposely creates population imbalances to mimic the current campaigns it will not be accurate.0 -
Hiero_Glyph✭✭✭✭✭You are not waiting in a queue because ZOS made you to, you are waiting because you decided to.
ZOS gave you an option to join cyrodiil instantly (by playing for a side that does not have a queue).
So your solution to avoiding a wait queue is to spend weeks leveling an alt? You must be trolling now.
ESO is an MMO and each character requires hundreds of hours to reach max level and atttain the necessary skills. For you to dismiss this just because leveling an alt is possible is ridicuous. Now if ZoS implements a mercenary mode where players can realign themselves with another alliance until the end of the campaign then you may have a valid point, but the suggestion you made is entirely impractical and demonstrates a design flaw by ZoS. Guest campaigns can only do so much when you are being temporarily denied access to paid DLC, especially for those with limited time available.Edited by Hiero_Glyph on August 10, 2015 6:04PM0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hiero_Glyph wrote: »Hiero_Glyph wrote: »It is the same thing. In both PvE and PvP, it is theoretically possible you will never succeed. The only difference is that the threshold in PvE is static, while the threshold in PvP is dynamic.
That is what i was saying above - the PvP threshold is dynamic. This could mean it will be harder, but also could mean it will be easier than the PvE one.
If there is any difference then they are not the same thing. They can be similar but as long as a difference exists then they are no longer the same since you can discern between them. Also, since the PvP threshold is dynamic it will never be the same as another PvP campaigns or as the PvE threshold as the conditions are always changing; each will be harder or easier comparatively but never the same.
The 'same thing' i am referring to is that both PvE and PvP have a theoretical chance that the player will never meet the requirements to get the reward. I did not mean that PvP and PvE are the same thing. I thought that was clear.
Except a X% and Y% chance are anything but the same.
I said failure is possible in either scenario, not that the percentages are the same.Hiero_Glyph wrote: »So your solution to avoiding a wait queue is to spend weeks leveling an alt? You must be trolling now
Please note that this was a reply to Byrom, and was about (and only about) the supposed legal liability of ZOS due to supposed denial of service. As long as you can make an alt and not face a queue, you cannot claim (from a legal standpoint) that ZOS is denying you access to it's service.1 -
Hiero_Glyph✭✭✭✭✭Hiero_Glyph wrote: »Hiero_Glyph wrote: »It is the same thing. In both PvE and PvP, it is theoretically possible you will never succeed. The only difference is that the threshold in PvE is static, while the threshold in PvP is dynamic.
That is what i was saying above - the PvP threshold is dynamic. This could mean it will be harder, but also could mean it will be easier than the PvE one.
If there is any difference then they are not the same thing. They can be similar but as long as a difference exists then they are no longer the same since you can discern between them. Also, since the PvP threshold is dynamic it will never be the same as another PvP campaigns or as the PvE threshold as the conditions are always changing; each will be harder or easier comparatively but never the same.
The 'same thing' i am referring to is that both PvE and PvP have a theoretical chance that the player will never meet the requirements to get the reward. I did not mean that PvP and PvE are the same thing. I thought that was clear.
Except a X% and Y% chance are anything but the same.
I said failure is possible in either scenario, not that the percentages are the same.Hiero_Glyph wrote: »So your solution to avoiding a wait queue is to spend weeks leveling an alt? You must be trolling now
Please note that this was a reply to Byrom, and was about (and only about) the supposed legal liability of ZOS due to supposed denial of service. As long as you can make an alt and not face a queue, you cannot claim (from a legal standpoint) that ZOS is denying you access to it's service.
Just because a thing can happen does not mean that it will happen. Besides, in one case failure means you are actively playing the content while in the other you will still not be given access.
As for the legality, there are always reasonable expectations. Your solution would easily be deemed unreasonable while my mercenary one is reasonable. Legally there is a substantial difference.0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭[edit] on a second thought - this has been going on long enough.Edited by Sharee on August 10, 2015 8:27PM0 -
Nebthet78✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think it is going to be interesting to see how gated access is going to work first before crabbing and complaining about it.
I do get what players are saying in regards to their fears that DC or another faction may be locked out for a long period of time.
Perhaps the, ZOS will need 2 new ungated campaigns to ensure those that want access can gain access, or allow players to switch campaigns for free once per week.
Then, those who prefer to work within the current system in Cyrodiil can still do so.
You also have to remember, ZOS is trying to convince PVE players to also go to IC by placing PVE content there as well as making it the main zone to gain new mats in. Buff campaigns are going to be the places where PVE players go to gain access to IC due to fewer pvp encounters.
Sure, they can go to WGT or ICP, but that defeats the purpose of actually exploring the city and exploring is what a lot of PVE players love to do.
Access via the buff campaigns will also allow poor/newbie pvpers to have a little fun without rage quitting either until they are more comfortable to head towards enemy territory.
While PTS is great for testing. I find most often a lot of the most selfish players head there not to test, but to find out what advantages they can take for themselves and their friends in preparation for the DLCs release and try to get it to make it into the release.
If ZOS follows through on their original plan of having to have all 6 keeps, players are going to have to come up with new strategies and coordination in Cyrodiil and actually work with each other and make trade offs to gain and keep access to IC. Perhaps that even includes sending in PVE players to IC to farm mats for their PVP guild so the best pvp players for their guild gain the best equipment quicker, while those players remain in Cyrodiil to guard the keeps and scrolls.
Until I experience how having to have your 6 keeps works with IC access, I can't really make an informed comment on why ZOS' idea is not going to work in the long run.
Either way, I can't wait to see what happens.Far too many characters to list any more.0 -
sagitter✭✭✭✭✭I think it is going to be interesting to see how gated access is going to work first before crabbing and complaining about it.
I do get what players are saying in regards to their fears that DC or another faction may be locked out for a long period of time.
Perhaps the, ZOS will need 2 new ungated campaigns to ensure those that want access can gain access, or allow players to switch campaigns for free once per week.
Then, those who prefer to work within the current system in Cyrodiil can still do so.
You also have to remember, ZOS is trying to convince PVE players to also go to IC by placing PVE content there as well as making it the main zone to gain new mats in. Buff campaigns are going to be the places where PVE players go to gain access to IC due to fewer pvp encounters.
Sure, they can go to WGT or ICP, but that defeats the purpose of actually exploring the city and exploring is what a lot of PVE players love to do.
Access via the buff campaigns will also allow poor/newbie pvpers to have a little fun without rage quitting either until they are more comfortable to head towards enemy territory.
While PTS is great for testing. I find most often a lot of the most selfish players head there not to test, but to find out what advantages they can take for themselves and their friends in preparation for the DLCs release and try to get it to make it into the release.
If ZOS follows through on their original plan of having to have all 6 keeps, players are going to have to come up with new strategies and coordination in Cyrodiil and actually work with each other and make trade offs to gain and keep access to IC. Perhaps that even includes sending in PVE players to IC to farm mats for their PVP guild so the best pvp players for their guild gain the best equipment quicker, while those players remain in Cyrodiil to guard the keeps and scrolls.
Until I experience how having to have your 6 keeps works with IC access, I can't really make an informed comment on why ZOS' idea is not going to work in the long run.
Either way, I can't wait to see what happens.
I can say for sure, for pvp/ava/rvr pure lovers it works good, and i say it because i played Daoc for years, and it has the same concept, and contribute to spread the zerg around the pvp maps.
Edited by sagitter on August 10, 2015 10:48PM1 -
Hiero_Glyph✭✭✭✭✭I think it is going to be interesting to see how gated access is going to work first before crabbing and complaining about it.
I do get what players are saying in regards to their fears that DC or another faction may be locked out for a long period of time.
Perhaps the, ZOS will need 2 new ungated campaigns to ensure those that want access can gain access, or allow players to switch campaigns for free once per week.
Then, those who prefer to work within the current system in Cyrodiil can still do so.
You also have to remember, ZOS is trying to convince PVE players to also go to IC by placing PVE content there as well as making it the main zone to gain new mats in. Buff campaigns are going to be the places where PVE players go to gain access to IC due to fewer pvp encounters.
Sure, they can go to WGT or ICP, but that defeats the purpose of actually exploring the city and exploring is what a lot of PVE players love to do.
Access via the buff campaigns will also allow poor/newbie pvpers to have a little fun without rage quitting either until they are more comfortable to head towards enemy territory.
While PTS is great for testing. I find most often a lot of the most selfish players head there not to test, but to find out what advantages they can take for themselves and their friends in preparation for the DLCs release and try to get it to make it into the release.
If ZOS follows through on their original plan of having to have all 6 keeps, players are going to have to come up with new strategies and coordination in Cyrodiil and actually work with each other and make trade offs to gain and keep access to IC. Perhaps that even includes sending in PVE players to IC to farm mats for their PVP guild so the best pvp players for their guild gain the best equipment quicker, while those players remain in Cyrodiil to guard the keeps and scrolls.
Until I experience how having to have your 6 keeps works with IC access, I can't really make an informed comment on why ZOS' idea is not going to work in the long run.
Either way, I can't wait to see what happens.
I can say for sure, for pvp/ava/rvr pure lovers it works good, and i say it because i played Daoc for years, and it has the same concept, and contribute to spread the zerg around the pvp maps.
As I haven't played DAoC, did the area(s) with restricted access have to be purchased or was it free for all players? Imperial City would be a fantastic idea as free content but when money is involved things like gated acccess become hugely problematic as players could literally be paying for nothing more than two dungeons.
I'm also concerned about having too many types of gated access systems in place since, at most, there should be two types of campaigns: fully restricted and partial/no restriction. Having more than two types of access just makes the entire process overly complicated and even more difficult to balance, especially in the future if campaigns are modified.
Also, I'm worried that IC's gated access will conflict with Emporer to the point that they will only exist on buff servers. IC should not take away from what little already exists in Cyrodiil.0 -
olemanwinter✭✭✭✭✭AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »I really don't understand this thread. There is no blockage to the IC to a consumer.
The reason you don't understand this thread is because my original premise has been tainted and skewed into a RIDICULOUS discussion of "consumer legality". It's nonsense.AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »you can just make an AD character and level it to 10 and.......
Besides the fact that many players don't want to do that, are you suggesting that it would be okay if 1 alliance out of 3 never got access to the area EVER because players can just reroll AD or DC alts?
The bottom line is that this thread isn't about convincing people like you to have a problem with gated access to IC, it's to make Zos aware that many players have no interest in this DLC with gated access.3 -
olemanwinter✭✭✭✭✭Carebears, get out of here if you don't like pvp.
I have almost exclusively PvP'ed since launch, and I would stack my number of kills, and my builds and PvP experience against almost anyone. I don't claim to be the best player that ever lived, but I can objectively say I'm definitely in the 90th percentile.
But I'm a carebear because I disagree with you? Give me a break.
You lack logical arguments, so you result to insults. It's not a new strategy, and it usually doesn't get you anywhere.
BUT YOU MAKE A POINT. We will get out. That's the whole point of this thread. Zos needs to be aware that this is going to dramatically reduce the number of purchasers and participants in this DLC.
But consider this; If someone like me who has logged hundreds of hours of PvP will leave due to this gated access, then how many of the REAL carebears will participate? Very few I think.
3 -
olemanwinter✭✭✭✭✭Sharee,
I swear to Talos, someone must be paying by the word!A defending force that is fighting a boss on the 3rd floor of the imperial sewers won't be able to respond to an attack against one of their keeps nearly as fast
This may be true, but it doesn't change any of my primary issues because:
A) there is only 1 competitive campaign. The remaining campaigns have such little DC presence that you can't enough people to take 3 keeps even without resistance. Which was one of my main points in the OP, players will have NO CHOICE but to either play in the busiest zergiest campaign or never get access to the IC.
B ) "slower than now" doesn't mean much when groups respond IN SECONDS. If it now takes 5 minutes for a zerg guild to respond and squash the threat....well, 'whoopidy doo'. It changes very little.
C) Your scenario still involves REQUIRED keep warfare PRIOR to accessing IC. It doesn't even address long-term imbalance.
I never doubted a DC guild could come into a campaign, push over a few keeps, get temporary access to IC and then proceed to enjoy themselves.
But most players don't play like that no matter how much the players that do, or Zos, wants' them to do so.
If you aren't part of that organized push that gets access to IC before the door shuts behind them, you're going to be an extremely annoyed player when you log in after a long day of work, night after night, to find no access to the DLC.
It's pretty obvious to me the difference between the people in this thread that view ESO as a break from real life and the people who view games AS real life.
Nobody who doesn't already enjoy keep-siege zerg warfare wants to waste their leisure time taking a bunch of keeps just for a chance to access the content they paid for.
If someone works from 9am to 6pm, comes home and feeds the family, cleans the kitchen, does the laundry, and then sits down to play a few hours of ESO, I don't think they want to BE REQUIRED to take keeps from perhaps 9pm to midnight just to finally get access to the game they want to play when it's time for bed because they have to get up in 7 hours to GO TO WORK and live their LIVES.
But I must remember, that a lot of people reading this can't relate to that. There is no end to the time they can spend in the game......or on the forums for that matter!Edited by olemanwinter on August 10, 2015 11:53PM4 -
olemanwinter✭✭✭✭✭I can say for sure, for pvp/ava/rvr pure lovers it works good, and i say it because i played Daoc for years, and it has the same concept, and contribute to spread the zerg around the pvp maps.
I play PvP almost exclusively since launch. Don't presume to speak for all of us. Thanks.2 -
I've been playing it on the PTS and honestly I find it boring. I mean I see what ZOS is trying to do but it just feels way too much like subbing one grind for another and I worry what impact its going to have on the overall PVP experience. Considering for the moment at least, its absolutely required for VR16 gear, I'm worried that PVP is going to degenerate into only being about access to the IC.
Combine this with low Tel Var yields, constantly having to repair, and players that you just killed respawning within running distance it gets really repetitive for very little gain very quickly.3 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭olemanwinter wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »I really don't understand this thread. There is no blockage to the IC to a consumer.
The reason you don't understand this thread is because my original premise has been tainted and skewed into a RIDICULOUS discussion of "consumer legality". It's nonsense.AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »you can just make an AD character and level it to 10 and.......
Besides the fact that many players don't want to do that, are you suggesting that it would be okay if 1 alliance out of 3 never got access to the area EVER because players can just reroll AD or DC alts?
The bottom line is that this thread isn't about convincing people like you to have a problem with gated access to IC, it's to make Zos aware that many players have no interest in this DLC with gated access.
I don't understand your outrage. You said you could not get access to IC; I have explained how you can have full-time 100% uninterrupted PVE farming access to IC on Thornblade as a level 10 alt, that you can achieve in 1 hour of game-time with no need to ever repeat. All the gear, material and purchased items can be traded, so you can gear up your main playing your alt without risk.
It doesn't matter how I feel about DC having equal access or not, the great injustice of it all has never compelled me to write the Iliad of QQs like someone else has above condemning everyone who doesn't share your opinion to be categorized as a gaming addict. I play this game maybe an hour every other day, so there goes that premise. Anyway have fun with it, don't let my indifference to your argument discourage you!Edited by AhPook_Is_Here on August 11, 2015 2:26AM“Whatever.”
-Unknown American2 -
olemanwinter✭✭✭✭✭AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »I don't understand your outrage.
I'm not outraged. A little disgusted at how obtuse you are being.AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »You said you could not get access to IC; I have explained how you can have full-time 100% uninterrupted PVE farming access to IC on Thornblade as a level 10 alt, that you can achieve in 1 hour of game-time with no need to ever repeat.
You're so arrogant, and yet your "explaination" is so completely IRRELEVANT.
I don't want to PvP with a level 10. I've spent a year in this game developing a max level character and spent hundreds of thousands, if not millions of gold, outfitting that character.
And now your solution for me being potentially unable to access The Imperial City is to go play on a level 10 alt in an alliance I don't like, so I can get stones and bank them.
AT BEST, if you completely ignore that fact that I don't want to make a cross-faction alt, it simply supplies Tel Var stones to my account at an inevitably reduced rate with the alt.
THE REALITY is that I want to PLAY THE GAME and ENJOY THE CONTENT on a REAL character. Not simply access the content through a back door and gimp through the content without enjoying it to get my little pocket full of Tel Var stones.AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »I don't understand
I know you don't. That's not the first time you've written that. I'm not trying to make you understand any more. Because it's a lost cause.
LOLOLOLOLOLAhPook_Is_Here wrote: »my indifference to your argumentAhPook_Is_Here wrote: »to write the Iliad of QQs like someone else has above condemning everyone who doesn't share your opinion to be categorized as a gaming addict.
Give me a break. I wasn't talking about you. This is the first time you've even registered to me as existing. If I've ever replied to you before today I don't remember. I certainly wasn't talking about everyone who disagrees with me.
It was an implied message to only a couple of people who have literally taken over this thread and have posted perhaps 2/3 of every post for the last 5 pages.
You talk about me writing the Iliad? Give me a break. It's my thread. I only check it every couple of days and there are several members here who FAR surpass the volume I've written, filling it with not only an opposing position (which is fine) but repeating that position to EVERY SINGLE PERSON.
I feel obligated to reply ...some...because I started the thread. I pick a couple of posts every couple of days and reply. I don't reply directly to every...single....person....with the same arguments practically verbatim and fill page after page with the same comments.
Nuff said. (at least between us)
Edited by olemanwinter on August 11, 2015 11:46PM3 -
olemanwinter✭✭✭✭✭lifefrombelowb14_ESO wrote: »I've been playing it on the PTS and honestly I find it boring. I mean I see what ZOS is trying to do but it just feels way too much like subbing one grind for another and I worry what impact its going to have on the overall PVP experience. Considering for the moment at least, its absolutely required for VR16 gear, I'm worried that PVP is going to degenerate into only being about access to the IC.
Combine this with low Tel Var yields, constantly having to repair, and players that you just killed respawning within running distance it gets really repetitive for very little gain very quickly.
And any time there is a grind, a power discrepancy develops between the grinders and the non-grinders (see current CP issues). When one faction that is already perpetually underpowered has a reduced opportunity to grind, what do you think will happen to that already existing imbalance?2 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭olemanwinter wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »I don't understand your outrage.
I'm not outraged. A little disgusted at how obtuse you are being.AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »You said you could not get access to IC; I have explained how you can have full-time 100% uninterrupted PVE farming access to IC on Thornblade as a level 10 alt, that you can achieve in 1 hour of game-time with no need to ever repeat.
You're so arrogant, and yet your "explaination" is so completely IRRELEVANT.
I don't want to PvP with a level 10. I've spent a year in this game developing a max level character and spent hundreds of thousands, if not millions of gold, outfitting that character.
And now you're solution for me being potentially unable to access The Imperial City is to go play on a level 10 alt in an alliance I don't like, so I can get stones and bank them.
AT BEST, if you completely ignore that fact that I don't want to make an cross-faction alt, it simply supplies Tel Var stones to my account at an inevitably reduced rate with the alt.
THE REALITY is that I want to PLAY THE GAME and ENJOY THE CONTENT on a REAL character. Not simply access the content through a back door and gimp through the content without enjoying it to get my little pocket full of Tel Var stones.AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »I don't understand
I know you don't. That's not the first time you've written that. I'm not trying to make you understand any more. Because it's a lost cause.
LOLOLOLOLOLAhPook_Is_Here wrote: »my indifference to your argumentAhPook_Is_Here wrote: »to write the Iliad of QQs like someone else has above condemning everyone who doesn't share your opinion to be categorized as a gaming addict.
Give me a break. I wasn't talking about you. This is the first time you've even registered to me as existing. If I've ever replied to you before today I don't remember. I certainly wasn't talking about everyone who disagrees with me.
It was an implied message to only a couple of people who have literally taken over this thread and have posted perhaps 2/3 of every post for the last 5 pages.
You talk about me writing the Iliad? Give me a break. It's my thread. I only check it every couple of days and there are several members here who FAR surpass the volume I've written, filling it with not only an opposing position (which is fine) but repeating that position to EVERY SINGLE PERSON.
I feel obligated to reply ...some...because I started the thread. I pick a couple of posts every couple of days and reply. I don't reply directly to every...single....person....with the same arguments practically verbatim and fill page after page with the same comments.
Nuff said. (at least between us)
Lucky for you, you don't take this game too seriously. It would suck to have such obvious buttons to push.“Whatever.”
-Unknown American3 -
olemanwinter✭✭✭✭✭AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »Lucky for you, you don't take this game too seriously. It would suck to have such obvious buttons to push.
TLDR1 -
sagitter✭✭✭✭✭Hiero_Glyph wrote: »I think it is going to be interesting to see how gated access is going to work first before crabbing and complaining about it.
I do get what players are saying in regards to their fears that DC or another faction may be locked out for a long period of time.
Perhaps the, ZOS will need 2 new ungated campaigns to ensure those that want access can gain access, or allow players to switch campaigns for free once per week.
Then, those who prefer to work within the current system in Cyrodiil can still do so.
You also have to remember, ZOS is trying to convince PVE players to also go to IC by placing PVE content there as well as making it the main zone to gain new mats in. Buff campaigns are going to be the places where PVE players go to gain access to IC due to fewer pvp encounters.
Sure, they can go to WGT or ICP, but that defeats the purpose of actually exploring the city and exploring is what a lot of PVE players love to do.
Access via the buff campaigns will also allow poor/newbie pvpers to have a little fun without rage quitting either until they are more comfortable to head towards enemy territory.
While PTS is great for testing. I find most often a lot of the most selfish players head there not to test, but to find out what advantages they can take for themselves and their friends in preparation for the DLCs release and try to get it to make it into the release.
If ZOS follows through on their original plan of having to have all 6 keeps, players are going to have to come up with new strategies and coordination in Cyrodiil and actually work with each other and make trade offs to gain and keep access to IC. Perhaps that even includes sending in PVE players to IC to farm mats for their PVP guild so the best pvp players for their guild gain the best equipment quicker, while those players remain in Cyrodiil to guard the keeps and scrolls.
Until I experience how having to have your 6 keeps works with IC access, I can't really make an informed comment on why ZOS' idea is not going to work in the long run.
Either way, I can't wait to see what happens.
I can say for sure, for pvp/ava/rvr pure lovers it works good, and i say it because i played Daoc for years, and it has the same concept, and contribute to spread the zerg around the pvp maps.
As I haven't played DAoC, did the area(s) with restricted access have to be purchased or was it free for all players? Imperial City would be a fantastic idea as free content but when money is involved things like gated acccess become hugely problematic as players could literally be paying for nothing more than two dungeons.
I'm also concerned about having too many types of gated access systems in place since, at most, there should be two types of campaigns: fully restricted and partial/no restriction. Having more than two types of access just makes the entire process overly complicated and even more difficult to balance, especially in the future if campaigns are modified.
Also, I'm worried that IC's gated access will conflict with Emporer to the point that they will only exist on buff servers. IC should not take away from what little already exists in Cyrodiil.
Daoc has never been free, actually you need a monthly payment since the year 2000-2001,Eso with just 2 months of sub you can purchase IC dlc and you have all of u life to play it without a monthly payment.Edited by sagitter on August 11, 2015 6:54PM1 -
sagitter✭✭✭✭✭olemanwinter wrote: »I can say for sure, for pvp/ava/rvr pure lovers it works good, and i say it because i played Daoc for years, and it has the same concept, and contribute to spread the zerg around the pvp maps.
I play PvP almost exclusively since launch. Don't presume to speak for all of us. Thanks.
I bet this is your first rvr mmo.0 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭1. It does not change much. It's not like people were just where figths were about to start before IC. If needed - they will come and def/attack. We are talking about a few organized guilds that make cyrodiil yellow or red.
A defending force that is fighting a boss on the 3rd floor of the imperial sewers won't be able to respond to an attack against one of their keeps nearly as fast as if they were sitting at aleswell twiddling their thumbs.
It worked in DAoC, it will work in TESO.2. It is possible, that there will be no such campaign, which was demonstrated by OP.
In his example, there is no IC yet that would weaken the dominant faction, influencing the balance.
Not to mention - it is a sample from 1am in the morning. That is hardly repesentative of the typical power balance.
1. A defending force? How many people do you think will fight a boss? Unlike more than a dozen. This is nothing on a scale of hunders or thousands of each faction's population. Also, it's the same as a raid that just got Alessia can't respond to the siege of Dragonclaw immediately. Of course it will take time.
2. It is at least something. When you say that there will be such a campaign at any time - that is even less representative. Also, there are numbers for 1p.m. EST as well as a few more numbers in other posts. And 1am EST is 10 pm pst, so people play...The 'same thing' i am referring to is that both PvE and PvP have a theoretical chance that the player will never meet the requirements to get the reward. I did not mean that PvP and PvE are the same thing. I thought that was clear.
Yeah, that is that they are similar. But they are not the same thing and since they are not the same thing, you can't expect them to have the same rules. That's what everyone is trying to explain to you here(moreso to ZOS who might read the topic).You are not waiting in a queue because ZOS made you to, you are waiting because you decided to.
ZOS gave you an option to join cyrodiil instantly (by playing for a side that does not have a queue).
That simply makes no sense. When you're choosing a faction, you don't know which one does and which one doesn't have a queue. You just want to play for whatever you like and then you try PvP at some point later, a lot of people don't try PvP before they are at the level cap... No, changing a side is NOT a solution. And it is not your decision to wait because you didn't know how it's gonna be when you chose the faction. IF ZOS added some sort of a notification to a character creation menu... maybe then you couldn't blame them.
I said failure is possible in either scenario, not that the percentages are the same.
facepalm. so why are you even arguing? of course failure is possible in either scenario. But it's much more possible in PvP for some factions more than for others, doesn't depend on your skill only. If percentages are not the same - then that's your second difference and then they are definitely not the same things.
Edited by Artis on August 11, 2015 8:53PM1 -
Drawberrry✭✭✭Whether or not you feel a certain alliance is less skilled in PVP or what have you, the issue is that a company can't expect people to drop $25 on content they will be entirely unable to access. It doesn't matter what alliance it is or how good or bad the members in the faction are if thousands of people are blocked from accessing paid content.
A compromise needs to be addressed sooner rather than later because people aren't going to wait around for another 6 months until it get's fixed. ZOS need's members lined up now for the release, not 6 months from now when who knows how many potential buyers have since abandoned the game.
Stuff and Things Lori:- Allow for instant travel into the Imperial City if the user has accessed it at least once prior, such as implementing a wayshrine in the faction's base within the sewers, or adding an access tunnel within the alliance's gate. So for example if a user in the EP has traveled to the Imperial City prior they may find an access tunnel between the Northern and Southern Morrowind gates and so on for each alliance.
- Add more access areas to each alliance zone in general even if it's just one extra gate in each alliance territory, for example: one near Faregyl, Glademist, and Arrius.
- Allow for quick travel into the Imperial City if grouped with another alliance member currently in said city, allowing the player to arrive in their alliance base within the sewers.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯1