Siphoning Strikes?

ginoboehm

leeching strikes is useless ..... syphoning strikes was the reason to even consider a nb tank.on my dk i can still block forever because battle roar is silly now for stamina builds gg zos fixing things that don't need fixing. NB tanks went from becoming almost my main tank to i will respec to get my points back from heavy armor-.

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Anhedonie

Take that, filthy player base! Awesome trolling move, ZO$!

Ipsius

I'm over halfway downloading the new PTS patch... I'll post info as soon as I can get on and see what the tooltips say

amasuriel

Understand that don't want anyone to tank, so they can hardly make a good skill that helps that!

#TanksareDPSwithTaunt

GreyRanger

Leeching strikes is pretty thoroughly useless and remains so. Until it can return resources for powers it is a waste

Siphoning attacks is the useful power here and having to reapply it every 15s is just a drag and for no reason that I can imagine. So how about 15s at the morph with +5s per level up to a REASONABLE 30s duration?

This same issue applies to shadow barrier where you are constantly recasting powers to just to rebuff yourself. ZOS could you please set a reasonable threshold for buff durations as a matter of design. I would suggest something in the 30s to preferably 1 minute range.

Bumping up the duration to 15s is progress, but far short of what is needed.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Looks like the base ability, Siphoning Strikes, still has a level 1 duration of 10 seconds. Can't see rank IV or morphs because templates don't have them unlocked...

kungmoo

sigh.... wrong toggle morph

xaraan

Well, ZoS, you went with making Leeching strikes the toggle...

Despite being told how bad a decision it would be ahead of time.

Siphoning strikes - ie the chance to get regen back with any type of attack (like sap) is what makes it useful for tanking.

Leeching on the other hand, still the worse of the two options, would at least have appeal as an active skill being that dps weave light attacks in between their power attacks, so they would have a constant bit of regen to all three stats for every light attack made (like a mini-crit surge for all three stats) and would be worth running simply because it doesn't penalize their dps anymore.

Now, maybe leeching would need a little buff to be really appealing still? idk, I'd have to test it more, but Leeching should be the activated skill and siphoning the toggle.

Wing

lol, design fail

Ipsius

Alright, who's ready for some news?! Sucky news.

The 10 second morph still is 10 seconds according to tooltip and weapon glow, even at max level. Also, the amount of resources restored does not scale.

The numbers at max level are: 945 mp/stamina for normal attacks, 10% chance on other attacks to restore 1890. It costs a base of 2,394 mp to cast.

The leeching strikes toggle restore DOES scale with magicka OR stamina, whichever is higher. At 21 points in stamina or magicka, it restores...


305 stamina/mp per hit. At 41 in stamina/magicka, it restores 375 mp/stamina per hit. It always restores 2% hp. At max level, it still reduces damage/healing done by 17%.

Ipsius

These numbers are inexact. I'm pretty sure they're close though. Template v14 Argonian nightblade with no passives learned, 21 points in stamina, 41 points in magicka, no champ points, and armor that only adds HP (I think).

Enough to prove one morph scales and the other doesn't, and that the restore on the toggle is about 1/3 to 1/2 of the restore on the non-toggle, depending on scaling.

GreyRanger

Ipsius wrote: »

Alright, who's ready for some news?! Sucky news.

The 10 second morph still is 10 seconds according to tooltip and weapon glow, even at max level. Also, the amount of resources restored does not scale.

The numbers at max level are: 945 mp/stamina for normal attacks, 10% chance on other attacks to restore 1890. It costs a base of 2,394 mp to cast.

The leeching strikes toggle restore DOES scale with magicka OR stamina, whichever is higher. At 21 points in stamina or magicka, it restores...


305 stamina/mp per hit. At 41 in stamina/magicka, it restores 375 mp/stamina per hit. It always restores 2% hp. At max level, it still reduces damage/healing done by 17%.

Geeze what a mess. So the 10s morph you have to make 3 light attacks just to get out of the hole casting it put you in. Plus you get to recast it every 10s taking time and re-digging the hole. So it is worthless.

The toggle crashes your DPS, is only a tank power, but it only works with light attacks which have very little role in tanking and conflict with blocking.

I am speechless.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

GreyRanger wrote: »

Ipsius wrote: »

Alright, who's ready for some news?! Sucky news.

The 10 second morph still is 10 seconds according to tooltip and weapon glow, even at max level. Also, the amount of resources restored does not scale.

The numbers at max level are: 945 mp/stamina for normal attacks, 10% chance on other attacks to restore 1890. It costs a base of 2,394 mp to cast.

The leeching strikes toggle restore DOES scale with magicka OR stamina, whichever is higher. At 21 points in stamina or magicka, it restores...


305 stamina/mp per hit. At 41 in stamina/magicka, it restores 375 mp/stamina per hit. It always restores 2% hp. At max level, it still reduces damage/healing done by 17%.

Geeze what a mess. So the 10s morph you have to make 3 light attacks just to get out of the hole casting it put you in. Plus you get to recast it every 10s taking time and re-digging the hole. So it is worthless.

The toggle crashes your DPS, is only a tank power, but it only works with light attacks which have very little role in tanking and conflict with blocking.

I am speechless.

You summarized the issue perfectly.

Ipsius

Yeah just... Yeah. Speechless. That's a good word for it.

Ipsius

Worth mentioning that Surge now has a 33 second duration.

Soulac

Still 10 sec...

Ipsius

Not to mention the toggle will lower your spell power for healing, and any channeled heavy attack (like a resto staff) will only count as one hit.

So, in summary, they wanted to change the skill because they believed only tanks used it, and wanted it to be good for other classes too.

So they made the toggle the morph that is least useful to tanks, removing the one reason tanks used it.

Then, they added a 10 second buff for "everyone else" to use that still lowers DPS and healing due to it's frequent recast, AND it costs a substantial chunk of mp.

As it stands, there is no reason for anyone to use the toggle, and lots of reasons for no one to use the short duration morph.

So... they managed to muck up the skill for anyone who used to use it???

GreyRanger

It begs the question again, do the people revising the game play the game.

ShadowHvo

Ipsius wrote: »

Not to mention the toggle will lower your spell power for healing, and any channeled heavy attack (like a resto staff) will only count as one hit.

So, in summary, they wanted to change the skill because they believed only tanks used it, and wanted it to be good for other classes too.

So they made the toggle the morph that is least useful to tanks, removing the one reason tanks used it.

Then, they added a 10 second buff for "everyone else" to use that still lowers DPS and healing due to it's frequent recast, AND it costs a substantial chunk of mp.

As it stands, there is no reason for anyone to use the toggle, and lots of reasons for no one to use the short duration morph.

So... they managed to muck up the skill for anyone who used to use it???

Since launch there has only ever been ONE good reason to use Leeching Strike...

...
.....
...... To look cool in town with shadowy glowing weapons.

If they just would increase the 2% in health return to something like 5% health returned pr hit, then the ability -might- have been worth its decrease in damage/healing.

SturgeHammer

Ipsius wrote: »

Alright, who's ready for some news?! Sucky news.

The 10 second morph still is 10 seconds according to tooltip and weapon glow, even at max level. Also, the amount of resources restored does not scale.

The numbers at max level are: 945 mp/stamina for normal attacks, 10% chance on other attacks to restore 1890. It costs a base of 2,394 mp to cast.

The leeching strikes toggle restore DOES scale with magicka OR stamina, whichever is higher. At 21 points in stamina or magicka, it restores...


305 stamina/mp per hit. At 41 in stamina/magicka, it restores 375 mp/stamina per hit. It always restores 2% hp. At max level, it still reduces damage/healing done by 17%.

Does leeching strikes proc on all attacks (aoes, spells, feats etc) or just light/heavy?

Ipsius

Just light and heavy. Essentially identical to the morph on live (the one no one uses)

aco5712

why not get rid of leeching coz no one uses it and if you do please uninstall the game, and just have both morphs siphon attacks. One that is a toggle and one that isnt.

Draehl

GreyRanger wrote: »

Ipsius wrote: »

Alright, who's ready for some news?! Sucky news.

The 10 second morph still is 10 seconds according to tooltip and weapon glow, even at max level. Also, the amount of resources restored does not scale.

The numbers at max level are: 945 mp/stamina for normal attacks, 10% chance on other attacks to restore 1890. It costs a base of 2,394 mp to cast.

The leeching strikes toggle restore DOES scale with magicka OR stamina, whichever is higher. At 21 points in stamina or magicka, it restores...


305 stamina/mp per hit. At 41 in stamina/magicka, it restores 375 mp/stamina per hit. It always restores 2% hp. At max level, it still reduces damage/healing done by 17%.

Geeze what a mess. So the 10s morph you have to make 3 light attacks just to get out of the hole casting it put you in. Plus you get to recast it every 10s taking time and re-digging the hole. So it is worthless.

The toggle crashes your DPS, is only a tank power, but it only works with light attacks which have very little role in tanking and conflict with blocking.

I am speechless.

Give this man a cookie. Perfectly stated. I could deal with the 15s variant, but they need to cut the cost by at least 50% and/or have it supply some other effect...

Altyrann

On the EU server so have been able to test this (only very briefly messing about in Spellscar pulling mutliple groups and at North Craglorn mines) with my live character copy (V14 Altmer NB). Initial observations:

• Leeching feels even less likely to be used on live than it is now, which is quite impressive. Lower returns, no proc on abilities and the same penalty... I just do not see the intended use case for this ability
• Siphoning duration appears to be only 10 seconds - I have rank 4 of the morph and tooltip still says 10s - hoping this is a bug given patch notes
• Fixed rather than % returns on siphoning make a number of things different from live. For a magicka DD spec (38k magicka), I definitely get less sustain on AOE groups, though the increased damage and healing from sap essence is noticeable (increased armour on light armour is also both noticeable and welcome as an aside )
• As a magicka tank (26k magicka, 11k stamina - not got gear/build for stamina tank so cannot test that) I actually find I get better stamina returns than on live but worse magicka returns (for reference, I run 62 points into magicka, but full HP enchants on armour, magicka cost reduction on jewellery, no stamina beyond base stats + bonus from footman pieces)
• It feels like a permablocking sap tank may not be far off with enough block cost reduction as long as the magicka regen holds up- currently 180 CP

Overall, it feels like siphoning is close to something useful, with the 15s duration needing to be implemented fully and perhaps return values needing tweaking, while leeching feels like an utterly useless morph, unfortunately.

I would still prefer to see returns at a higher level across the board (especially leeching which looks far too low - feels like you lose more health from lower sap essence/funnel heal ticks than you gain from the ability), with clearer roles for both morphs. Personally I would propose, as per my earlier comment in this thread:

• Leeching (the tanking one) - toggle which proc on basic attacks and abilities, regens HP as well as resources, but has the damage reduction penalty attached - if healing is meaningful and you don't have to use a cast every 15s, this could be attractive for tanks/possibly some solo builds
• Siphoning (the aoe burst/occasional healing regen one) - activated (with sensible duration - 15-20s would not feel awful, 10s is definitely annoying), procs on basic attacks and abilities, no HP regen - this could be an interesting one for DD/healers as you have to look for right moment to cast to balance loss of a GCD against benefits while returning enough resources for aoe phases or to help regen before/after heavy healing

Duukar

The ability still only lasts for 10 seconds. patch notes said 15 seconds.. WTF is this???

Altyrann

Duukar wrote: »

The ability still only lasts for 10 seconds. patch notes said 15 seconds.. WTF is this???

Hopefully a bug given patch notes...hopefully

Altyrann

I wonder how much consideration has been given to the fact that the current (live) version of siphoning is distinctive, well used for certain builds, situations, and works, and that perhaps leaving it alone and doing something interesting with the redheaded stepchild that is leeching may be the right answer...

Edited to add note that this is purely from a PvE perspective - I have too little experience in PvP to have a strong view there, but would hope that PvE is not altered to fix PvP issues.

Sensesfail13

Castle wrote: »

t.claudio.usnub18_ESO wrote: »

So it's no longer a toggle so whats this mean?
Does this mean that so long as you have it on your bars you will gain this effect?
Is it a passive skill like a Templars Restoring Aura?
Is it a short term buff like like Two Handed Momentum?

It is a standard Buff with a duration of 10s per activation.

Worst change ever. 10s? What were you all thinking???

Draehl

Good point. The only good thing to come from the patch is the potential benefit of having an option that doesn't take up both bars. The idea that you must have a skill on both bars to keep the toggle active is ridiculous. You should turn it on and it stay active for any bars it is slotted on. I can't speak for everyone else, but my secondary resto staff bar has no attacks on it. Heals and utility skills only. Being forced to slot Siphoning, or Inner Light, or whatever when I'm only needing it on one bar is rather silly and punitive.

Drinkycrow

Siphoning attacks IV is indeed 10 seconds on the tool tip and 10 seconds in action...making this ability useless. As it stands all forms of this skill are pointless.


at the very least make siphoning attacks last 18 seconds...bringing it in line with Templar's channeled focus which when all the passive are purchased is 18 seconds.

18 seconds is good...18 seconds is useful. 10 seconds is just god awful


leeching strikes should be something else than what its is now..which is even more 'just god awful'

ZOS you just eliminated this skill basically