Siphoning Strikes?

Xandryah

Ipsius wrote: »

Or 1 minute. Or 10 minutes please. Or just make it "when slotted". It's already taking up a slot, making us cast it over and over and over is just an inconvenience and an annoyance.

Oh, WOW, YEAH! THAT would be really COOL and CONVENIENT ^_^

Soulac

~30 Seconds and I slot it.

helediron

If ZOS keeps the toggle and this new version, i hope both morphs are versions of Siphoning Attack. The Leeching Strikes is almost never used and can be dropped away.

Morph 1: Siphoning Attacks toggled.
Morph 2: Siphoning Attacks timed, at least 20 seconds.

Both versions have to give enough resources back for sustained use. This is the core feature of magicka nightblades to stay alive without class shields and burst heals, at melee range by spamming Sap Essence. Current new SA broke that for magicka DDs and saptanks. Make sure the timed version actually gives significant amount of mana back after subtracting the cost of the spell.

ColtPython

helediron wrote: »

If ZOS keeps the toggle and this new version, i hope both morphs are versions of Siphoning Attack. The Leeching Strikes is almost never used and can be dropped away.

Morph 1: Siphoning Attacks toggled.
Morph 2: Siphoning Attacks timed, at least 20 seconds.

Both versions have to give enough resources back for sustained use. This is the core feature of magicka nightblades to stay alive without class shields and burst heals, at melee range by spamming Sap Essence. Current new SA broke that for magicka DDs and saptanks. Make sure the timed version actually gives significant amount of mana back after subtracting the cost of the spell.

Bring back the percentage based return!

Draehl

I'd like to see the toggle version also incorporate health return too, but get a heftier damage penalty. Something like -25-30% damage, but a healing proc too. Make it truly defensive. The buff variant I would hope is at least 15 seconds with a trivial magicka cost.

Talemire

The 10 second duration is horrible and extremely cumbersome to the point to where it's undesireable. 20 seconds would be much more appropriate or even allow the ability to restore said pools for one tick every 2 seconds for 20 seconds. It's not about making it OP, it's about efficiency. If the regen ticked once per second for 10 seconds it would still not be as good as it lasting 20 seconds. At least make this skill fun and efficient to use.

Ipsius

For reference, here's the changes they made to surge, copied from the patch notes:

"Surge:
Increased the duration of this ability by 50%.
Reduced the cost of this ability by 24%.
The healing from this ability no longer procs off damage over time effects.
Reduced the cooldown on the healing proc to 100 milliseconds from 250 milliseconds."

This is an ability that gives 20% spell and weapon attack, heals off of crits, had its duration boosted to 30 seconds (making it much more viable as an off-bar self buff), and increased the frequency of the heals.

The point is, they gave this self buff attention to make it much better and easier to use, along with increasing its viability as an off-bar self-buff.

What they did to siphoning strikes, though, is give it a very short 10 second duration, reducing its capacity to regen resources, as well as making it almost completely unviable as an off bar buff.

They made it an "oh crap I'm out of resources" button, but we already have heavy attacks for that. This really doesn't make the non toggle version worth the slot... On top of that, it sounds like there will not be a morph that provides % health restore.

Again I'll reiterate: I would really like this skill to have a mild regeneration effect while slotted with a stronger on-activate effect, like Tenplars restoring aura. Then it would be usable by every build that wants extra regen, like they intended!

Miwerton

I generally hope they dont let the current pts version of siphon attacks stay the way it is, It would mostly remove the class with the most diverse choice of tanking gear/setup ( oppposed to the traditonal 5 hist bark 5 footman 2 monster set getup, when you could choose another 5 piece set or something else, giving NB tanks a greater diversity). Though with noise thats made i certainly hope it will become as usefull as it was, once they reallize the main prob with op ressource managment for NBs was using it with catrops, no other dot skill did give back ressources over time (refreshing path included as it only returns back on the initial first hit).

Ipsius

As long as we make "noise" AND the eu players make noise after they get their characters transferred from live to pts, I think we'll end up with two good morphs with two usable but different functionality. They already fixed caltrops (I think; it was mentioned in the patch notes, but not specifically regarding its interaction with siphoning strikes)

All that's left is to refine the skills til they pay da bills.

Arkh__Longstride

Can you please explain the fix to caltrops?

Ipsius

All the patch notes said is that caltrops is no longer considered a physical attack. So I'm guessing it must be considered a dot now.

Evidently, this means only the initial hit has a chance to proc siphoning attacks (like other dots), whereas on live it can proc every tick and potentially from multiple targets.

AssaultLemming

Xeniph wrote: »

Yes, this is a bad change.

Buffs most NB's maintain-

Blur- 26s
Grim focus- 20s (More like 10s, if you use spectral bow. As you have to refresh it to get the bow to proc again.)
Camo hunter- 15 seconds ( and has to be refreshed IN stealth now)

And now you want to add another one? 10 seconds no less.

By the time we are done buffing, it will be time to refresh them again.

You forgot rally too

SturgeHammer

NEWS!!!

@ZOS_GinaBruno has confirmed on the Twitch Stream that Leeching Strikes will be the Toggle Morph.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

SturgeHammer wrote: »

NEWS!!!

@ZOS_GinaBruno has confirmed on the Twitch Stream that Leeching Strikes will be the Toggle Morph.

I knew they would do that, keep the toggle on the weaker morph. I won't mind it so long as they still increase the duration of SA. Too many buffs to keep track of (almost a full bar of buffs), and constantly refresh.

SturgeHammer

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

SturgeHammer wrote: »

NEWS!!!

@ZOS_GinaBruno has confirmed on the Twitch Stream that Leeching Strikes will be the Toggle Morph.

I knew they would do that, keep the toggle on the weaker morph. I won't mind it so long as they still increase the duration of SA. Too many buffs to keep track of (almost a full bar of buffs), and constantly refresh.

I am hoping they might alter Leeching Strikes to have the same proc conditions as Siphoning Attacks, because I'd much rather have the toggle.

Ipsius

When did they do a twitch stream? I thought they only did them on Fridays… Hopefully what she meant was, leaching strikes would be transformed into a toggle version of the other morph (as in, both would have the % chance on all attacks for a bigger regen) except the toggle comes with a damage reduction...

SturgeHammer

Ipsius wrote: »

When did they do a twitch stream? I thought they only did them on Fridays… Hopefully what she meant was, leaching strikes would be transformed into a toggle version of the other morph (as in, both would have the % chance on all attacks for a bigger regen) except the toggle comes with a damage reduction...

They did an impromptu dev pvp stream today.

Talemire

SturgeHammer wrote: »

NEWS!!!

@ZOS_GinaBruno has confirmed on the Twitch Stream that Leeching Strikes will be the Toggle Morph.

Of course, it's the one I didn't want to be a toggle. Of course.

lonewolf26

SturgeHammer wrote: »

NEWS!!!

@ZOS_GinaBruno has confirmed on the Twitch Stream that Leeching Strikes will be the Toggle Morph.

This is truly unfortunate. Siphoning was always the more useful one for me to tank with.

hrothbern

If Siphoning Attacks has at least 26 seconds, AND has NO costs, I can still see the Siphoning Class Line survive.

Talemire

Now if they re-worked toggles to stay active regardless of which bar is being used as long as it's slotted somewhere, cool, that benefits people in this scenario as well as many others (classes alike). However, I don't understand why they are doing this instead of making both parties happy by just having a 20 second duration on the buff. No need to penalize anyone here or force them to go toggle or not.

Jovaras

Leeching Strikes chosen for toggle ? ZOS, why did you have to destroy NB tanks? Now they lost the only advantage over DK's - resource management. DK still have best damage mitigation. NB's have nothing. Enjoy DK tanks everywhere.

Altyrann

If they are changing leeching strikes to be the toggle with only the return on light attacks I can't see many people bothering to use it, given that it is currently a toggle and not many people bother using it.

If they have leeching strikes as a toggle with the chance to proc on ability use, it could become a very interesting skill for tanks, giving both resource management and some self healing. It would also make the split between morphs more clear, with leeching being the clear tanking choice at the expense of damage and siphoning (hopefully with better duration) for use on longer aoe fights by DD or for healers to pop in quiet moments to help with sustain.

I also very much hope that both morphs get a sensible level of resource return per proc as it felt too low on the current PTS build.

Zolron

SturgeHammer wrote: »

NEWS!!!

@ZOS_GinaBruno has confirmed on the Twitch Stream that Leeching Strikes will be the Toggle Morph.

Is this a joke? Zos, just quit wasting time and resources and just DELETE the skill

PBpsy

SturgeHammer wrote: »

NEWS!!!

@ZOS_GinaBruno has confirmed on the Twitch Stream that Leeching Strikes will be the Toggle Morph.

This was obvious. ZoS combat design trolling at its best.

Altyrann

Might be worth giving it a few minutes and seeing exactly what they have changed!

SturgeHammer

Altyrann wrote: »

Might be worth giving it a few minutes and seeing exactly what they have changed!

My fear would be that it is the same leeching strikes as live. It wouldn't kill my build or anything like that. I'd just continue using SA with the added annoyance of managing more buff timers.

PBpsy

"
Siphoning

- Increased the duration of Siphoning Strikes and Siphoning Attacks to 15 seconds from 10 seconds.

- Leeching Strikes (Siphoning Strikes morph): This ability is now a toggle once more, and reduces weapon and spell power while active."

LOL

ColtPython

If the Siphon is based on percentage again, then I think the 15 second and no damage reduction is good. If it is the fixed amount of 1.8k still, then this entire skill and all morphs are dead. Does anyone even use the Leaching morph on live now or ever?

actosh

ColtPython wrote: »

If the Siphon is based on percentage again, then I think the 15 second and no damage reduction is good. If it is the fixed amount of 1.8k still, then this entire skill and all morphs are dead. Does anyone even use the Leaching morph on live now or ever?

it is and will be a fixed amount. The are doin this on a lot of skills and Sets.