The Day ESO Dies

Rune_Relic · July 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Smiteye wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

You imply I have choice. There is none.
I want to enjoy PVP but I cant compete without grinding on the treadmill.
If I grind on the treadmill, not only do I fail to enjoy PVE, I also spend all my time grinding instead of playing PVE or PVP.
Those that have no job and spend all their time at home on the game can spend 8 hours grinding and 4 hours+ playing PVP or PVE if they like.
Most people if they get 4 hours a day would rather spend that on game.
Even if they split that 2 hour play and 2 hours grind they can never compete and never catch up.

You cannot build a game around appeasing fulltime hardcore players and punishing everyone else.
They don't make up the majority of your playerbase by any stretch of the imagination.
All you are doing is driving the vast majority of your customers away.
As has been amply demonstrated with the collapse of the guilds and playerbase.

I would be more apt to agree with the sentiments of this thread on CP's if there was mathematical proof that CP's have a noteworthy impact on character performance by way of PvP and PvE. As far as "collapse of guilds", it is the life blood of MMOs, every game in the history of MMOs has had a dark era, for many it was a failure for many it was a success.

Only Attorneyatlawl has provided any type of mathematical inquiry and scientific insight, his findings show that grinding CP past a certain point is not numerically significant.
'
With that said so far it shows that skill will still supersede a mathematical advantage in Cyrodiil at this point. Which makes the hamster wheel argument relevant because if CP's truly mean nothing then there is only awaiting the next DLC, which people have already are bored with current content while people like you are trying to enjoy the game.

Before it was too damn hard to get Veteran levels, now it's much easier to gain vet levels. Now its back to every problem every MMO has ever faced, the gap between casuals and hardcore players.

So where do you fill in the gap? Gear? "CPs", Levels?

How many people are going to enjoy the storyline vs PvP/PvE mechanical functionality and blow through Mythos and storytelling and get straight to the endgame?

In my opinion, ZOS is being intelligent by taking their time fixing current issues slowly and methodically rather than rushing content to appease the squeakiest wheel on the ESOTU bus.

Another problem lies in the fact that how can they improve a game when they have to wade through a bunch of bs just to get to the folks who do not soak the forums in their tears and nerdrage and have really well written and coherent concerns and improvements. They are going to soak the "next big thing" in their tears when it fails doesn't spoil them, because they are addicted to riding the hypetrain, I with held my assessments and conclusions for years, but after Stars Wars launch, there it is.

*shrug* That is just me, I am a admittedly patient with this game, I take my time. Not rushing to the end when I know by the time I get there something new, cool, and shiny is going to come out.

I have been one of the few producing figures and not crap....

1234567

..This is stamina increase over standard as CP points increase. Magicka and Health also increase at the same rate. ALL passive/active bonuses are scaled based off magicka/stamina/health as well as spell/weapon damage. So not only do you get damage CS passive increase you also get the CS stat based increase as a double whammy.
What would you give to have a 5 pc set bonus of +15% stamina/magicka/health on top of your existing 5 pc set bonus (350 cp) ?

Now imagine you could have upto ZILCH% increase on all stats.

@TheBonesXXX gets to the actual parts that matter. The chart you show, not only has an ambiguous "100%" starting point, but then paths in a way that doesn't line up with how the system even works.

Your plot area isn't a 1:1 area. It is 886 pixels horizontally by 572 high, which distorts the gain to appear at a ratio of 54% stronger than it would otherwise. A one-to-one plot area would scale from "100%" to "200%" for the vertical axis, or in other words, "1x increase" against a "100%" of champion points you could earn on the horizontal axis, aka 3600 in the labels.

Here's what it looks like, when attempting to present facts objectively on a neutral basis after scaling and adjusting the graph plot area to usual statistical chart presentation standards:

This isn't even mentioning providing a completely unhinged "statistic" from any actual game information or context as to what it supposed to mean.

The bottom line ends up being what @TheBonesXXX got at: what do you want out of your MMO? In a game where skill is enough of a factor that great players can take out 5-10 people alone in PVP, having a progression system to help bridge the gap between work being done on the game and provide a point in doing things game-wide (once the XP is evened out across activities like PVP and PVE/dungeons/trials)... what exactly are you looking for?

How do the cool kids say it... oh right. "Wrecked". @Rune_Relic 's bias just got blown to pieces.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

lol. Wrecked ? Really....
http://asolutionaday.com/calculators-index/
People should check they actually know what they are talking about before they attempt to wreck an argument.

The stamina, magicka and health increase to stat is proportional to existing stat point bias (so varies).
So if you had 20,000 stamina you would get app. 1.49x multiplyer or 149% of base stamina at 3000 cp or 29800 stamina.
As the starting values depend on how many points you have invested in stamina/magicka/health from 1-62.... its impossible to graph the actual quantity of increase (as it varies from player to player)...only the proportion can be modelled universally.
Anything else would be misleading.

There is nothing wrong with the scale of the graph. Its not logarithmic or misleading in anyway.
Its perfectly uniform in x and y axes. It makes it very easy to see what champion points create what magnitude increase.
So the relative proportions of CP or magnitude is completelet irrelevant.....other than personal preference and nit picking.
It starts from 100% with 0cp and then increase above 100% depending on the scale of the multiplyer where 1x current stamina/magicka/health is 100%.
Remove all the CP and you would be back to 100% stamina/magicka/stamina without any CP bonus multiplier.

Is this really the best argument you have ?
Cant argue with the math so attack the way its presented instead ?
Explains everything.

The mechanic is that you gain 10 of each stat when investing a point into its respective segment by color, as explained in this thread. It isn't percentage based, as you presented... and so as I said, it's completely disconnected from any actual game mechanic, let alone the practical application of it. You can read more about how the champion system works, in my Primer thread if you would like to .

Your link is broken..and your maths does not tie in with that described here...
http://asolutionaday.com/elder-scrolls-calculators/elder-scrolls-online-stamina-calculator-tower-tree-champion/
here...
http://asolutionaday.com/elder-scrolls-calculators/elder-scrolls-online-health-calculator-lord-tree-champion/
and here...
http://asolutionaday.com/elder-scrolls-calculators/elder-scrolls-online-magicka-calculator-apprentice-tree-champion/

With champion rank 3600, you gain 12k to each of Magicka, Stamina, and Health. Considering players run around with anywhere between 2300-4400 spell/weapon power depending on their spec (which totals in excess of double the contribution alone, that the main stat total gives in the first place on the higher end of that scale for stamina builds), alongside 30k-38k magicka or stamina, presenting the chart as a singular "percentage" (which again, isn't connected to anything in-game), is disingenuous.

Your fixed +12k stamina/magick/health does not concur with the facts offered elsewhere.

An additional 12k stamina for a weapon-power based build, for example, will generally amount to the equivalent of adding around 900-950 extra weapon power, after taking into account various passive modifiers that may boost stamina from that base amount such as a 10% racial passive, and weapon power buffs that are used during gameplay. That's from the entirety of earning the full 3600 ranks, of course. No small task, and not far off from what some gear sets can provide after the 20% weapon power buff that everyone runs, from a ravaging set which lands at around 770 weapon power when active (essentially full-time) .

You are missing the point that not only do you get greater damage etc...from higher magicka/stamina, you also have greater resources to use. So you can get more hits before your resource runs out (or more expensive hits). Also inceasing overall damage.

Regarding charting standards, without trying to add a specific bias, statisticians refer to a neutral graph as being to scale on both the X and Y axes with no distortion of time or plot area for either. The one shown, even if it had been game-related, didn't come close to that for the reasons I already had outlined. That isn't a matter of preference . That chart specifically exaggerated the plotting area. I focused on the chart because it is very misleading, between those facts, the way the champion system provides raw stat gains as outlined in my primer thread linked above, and the practical impact it has as described in the previous paragraph, here.

Charting standards ? Really.
3000 CP = 149%.....it doesn't matter if the X axes is 100x larger or the y axes is 100x larger, the curve reflects the same fact.
vis-a-vis its irrelevant nit picking.
I have commented your post above.

Smiteye · July 2015

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Smiteye wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

You imply I have choice. There is none.
I want to enjoy PVP but I cant compete without grinding on the treadmill.
If I grind on the treadmill, not only do I fail to enjoy PVE, I also spend all my time grinding instead of playing PVE or PVP.
Those that have no job and spend all their time at home on the game can spend 8 hours grinding and 4 hours+ playing PVP or PVE if they like.
Most people if they get 4 hours a day would rather spend that on game.
Even if they split that 2 hour play and 2 hours grind they can never compete and never catch up.

You cannot build a game around appeasing fulltime hardcore players and punishing everyone else.
They don't make up the majority of your playerbase by any stretch of the imagination.
All you are doing is driving the vast majority of your customers away.
As has been amply demonstrated with the collapse of the guilds and playerbase.

I would be more apt to agree with the sentiments of this thread on CP's if there was mathematical proof that CP's have a noteworthy impact on character performance by way of PvP and PvE. As far as "collapse of guilds", it is the life blood of MMOs, every game in the history of MMOs has had a dark era, for many it was a failure for many it was a success.

Only Attorneyatlawl has provided any type of mathematical inquiry and scientific insight, his findings show that grinding CP past a certain point is not numerically significant.
'
With that said so far it shows that skill will still supersede a mathematical advantage in Cyrodiil at this point. Which makes the hamster wheel argument relevant because if CP's truly mean nothing then there is only awaiting the next DLC, which people have already are bored with current content while people like you are trying to enjoy the game.

Before it was too damn hard to get Veteran levels, now it's much easier to gain vet levels. Now its back to every problem every MMO has ever faced, the gap between casuals and hardcore players.

So where do you fill in the gap? Gear? "CPs", Levels?

How many people are going to enjoy the storyline vs PvP/PvE mechanical functionality and blow through Mythos and storytelling and get straight to the endgame?

In my opinion, ZOS is being intelligent by taking their time fixing current issues slowly and methodically rather than rushing content to appease the squeakiest wheel on the ESOTU bus.

Another problem lies in the fact that how can they improve a game when they have to wade through a bunch of bs just to get to the folks who do not soak the forums in their tears and nerdrage and have really well written and coherent concerns and improvements. They are going to soak the "next big thing" in their tears when it fails doesn't spoil them, because they are addicted to riding the hypetrain, I with held my assessments and conclusions for years, but after Stars Wars launch, there it is.

*shrug* That is just me, I am a admittedly patient with this game, I take my time. Not rushing to the end when I know by the time I get there something new, cool, and shiny is going to come out.

I have been one of the few producing figures and not crap....

1234567

..This is stamina increase over standard as CP points increase. Magicka and Health also increase at the same rate. ALL passive/active bonuses are scaled based off magicka/stamina/health as well as spell/weapon damage. So not only do you get damage CS passive increase you also get the CS stat based increase as a double whammy.
What would you give to have a 5 pc set bonus of +15% stamina/magicka/health on top of your existing 5 pc set bonus (350 cp) ?

Now imagine you could have upto ZILCH% increase on all stats.

@TheBonesXXX gets to the actual parts that matter. The chart you show, not only has an ambiguous "100%" starting point, but then paths in a way that doesn't line up with how the system even works.

Your plot area isn't a 1:1 area. It is 886 pixels horizontally by 572 high, which distorts the gain to appear at a ratio of 54% stronger than it would otherwise. A one-to-one plot area would scale from "100%" to "200%" for the vertical axis, or in other words, "1x increase" against a "100%" of champion points you could earn on the horizontal axis, aka 3600 in the labels.

Here's what it looks like, when attempting to present facts objectively on a neutral basis after scaling and adjusting the graph plot area to usual statistical chart presentation standards:

This isn't even mentioning providing a completely unhinged "statistic" from any actual game information or context as to what it supposed to mean.

The bottom line ends up being what @TheBonesXXX got at: what do you want out of your MMO? In a game where skill is enough of a factor that great players can take out 5-10 people alone in PVP, having a progression system to help bridge the gap between work being done on the game and provide a point in doing things game-wide (once the XP is evened out across activities like PVP and PVE/dungeons/trials)... what exactly are you looking for?

How do the cool kids say it... oh right. "Wrecked". @Rune_Relic 's bias just got blown to pieces.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

lol. Wrecked ? Really....
http://asolutionaday.com/calculators-index/
People should check they actually know what they are talking about before they attempt to wreck an argument.

The stamina, magicka and health increase to stat is proportional to existing stat point bias (so varies).
So if you had 20,000 stamina you would get app. 1.49x multiplyer or 149% of base stamina at 3000 cp or 29800 stamina.
As the starting values depend on how many points you have invested in stamina/magicka/health from 1-62.... its impossible to graph the actual quantity of increase (as it varies from player to player)...only the proportion can be modelled universally.
Anything else would be misleading.

There is nothing wrong with the scale of the graph. Its not logarithmic or misleading in anyway.
Its perfectly uniform in x and y axes. It makes it very easy to see what champion points create what magnitude increase.
So the relative proportions of CP or magnitude is completelet irrelevant.....other than personal preference and nit picking.
It starts from 100% with 0cp and then increase above 100% depending on the scale of the multiplyer where 1x current stamina/magicka/health is 100%.
Remove all the CP and you would be back to 100% stamina/magicka/stamina without any CP bonus multiplier.

Is this really the best argument you have ?
Cant argue with the math so attack the way its presented instead ?
Explains everything.

The mechanic is that you gain 10 of each stat when investing a point into its respective segment by color, as explained in this thread. It isn't percentage based, as you presented... and so as I said, it's completely disconnected from any actual game mechanic, let alone the practical application of it. You can read more about how the champion system works, in my Primer thread if you would like to .

Your link is broken..and your maths does not tie in with that described here...
http://asolutionaday.com/elder-scrolls-calculators/elder-scrolls-online-stamina-calculator-tower-tree-champion/
here...
http://asolutionaday.com/elder-scrolls-calculators/elder-scrolls-online-health-calculator-lord-tree-champion/
and here...
http://asolutionaday.com/elder-scrolls-calculators/elder-scrolls-online-magicka-calculator-apprentice-tree-champion/

With champion rank 3600, you gain 12k to each of Magicka, Stamina, and Health. Considering players run around with anywhere between 2300-4400 spell/weapon power depending on their spec (which totals in excess of double the contribution alone, that the main stat total gives in the first place on the higher end of that scale for stamina builds), alongside 30k-38k magicka or stamina, presenting the chart as a singular "percentage" (which again, isn't connected to anything in-game), is disingenuous.

Your fixed +12k stamina/magick/health does not concur with the facts offered elsewhere.

An additional 12k stamina for a weapon-power based build, for example, will generally amount to the equivalent of adding around 900-950 extra weapon power, after taking into account various passive modifiers that may boost stamina from that base amount such as a 10% racial passive, and weapon power buffs that are used during gameplay. That's from the entirety of earning the full 3600 ranks, of course. No small task, and not far off from what some gear sets can provide after the 20% weapon power buff that everyone runs, from a ravaging set which lands at around 770 weapon power when active (essentially full-time) .

You are missing the point that not only do you get greater damage etc...from higher magicka/stamina, you also have greater resources to use. So you can get more hits before your resource runs out (or more expensive hits). Also inceasing overall damage.

Regarding charting standards, without trying to add a specific bias, statisticians refer to a neutral graph as being to scale on both the X and Y axes with no distortion of time or plot area for either. The one shown, even if it had been game-related, didn't come close to that for the reasons I already had outlined. That isn't a matter of preference . That chart specifically exaggerated the plotting area. I focused on the chart because it is very misleading, between those facts, the way the champion system provides raw stat gains as outlined in my primer thread linked above, and the practical impact it has as described in the previous paragraph, here.

Charting standards ? Really.
3000 CP = 149%.....it doesn't matter if the X axes is 100x larger or the y axes is 100x larger, the curve reflects the same fact.
vis-a-vis its irrelevant nit picking.
I have commented your post above.

Lol, wikipedia disagrees with you on charts and I still don't know what 49 percent means. The line shown is meaningless. You were wrong... Apologize to him and move on relic. No one needs your website you keep linking to go to the test server and throw in 1200 points to one of the colors and see that you get twelve thousand of the stat added to your base before gear. It doesn't have right info!

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO · July 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

@TheBonesXXX gets to the actual parts that matter. The chart you show, not only has an ambiguous "100%" starting point, but then paths in a way that doesn't line up with how the system even works.

Your plot area isn't a 1:1 area. It is 886 pixels horizontally by 572 high, which distorts the gain to appear at a ratio of 54% stronger than it would otherwise. A one-to-one plot area would scale from "100%" to "200%" for the vertical axis, or in other words, "1x increase" against a "100%" of champion points you could earn on the horizontal axis, aka 3600 in the labels.

(...)

I'm sorry, but you are not making sense. At all. Non-square plots are simply not an issue, and a scale from 100% to 200% would be completely arbitrary and in no way better or more correct. If anything, the base line of the plot could have been put at 0% to make it more clear, making the vertical range 0% to 150%, but the chosen kind of presentation, with 100% at the base line, is pretty much the standard for growth plots. Keeping the empty space from 0% to the reference level of 100% simply makes bad use of the plot area by squeezing the curve into the top third.

There is nothing wrong with the format of the plot, nor with its presentation. Failing to read the numbers on the axes is an observer error, not an author mistake.

Seaber · July 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

With champion rank 3600, you gain 12k to each of Magicka, Stamina, and Health. Considering players run around with anywhere between 2300-4400 spell/weapon power depending on their spec (which totals in excess of double the contribution alone, that the main stat total gives in the first place on the higher end of that scale for stamina builds), alongside 30k-38k magicka or stamina, presenting the chart as a singular "percentage" (which again, isn't connected to anything in-game), is disingenuous.

No. Wrong.

0 CPs:
http://i.imgur.com/aNP1Hry.jpg

3600 CPs:
http://i.imgur.com/T5KlC9X.jpg

Both pictures were taken while wearing the medium armour that the pts templates are given.

Smiteye · July 2015

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

@TheBonesXXX gets to the actual parts that matter. The chart you show, not only has an ambiguous "100%" starting point, but then paths in a way that doesn't line up with how the system even works.

Your plot area isn't a 1:1 area. It is 886 pixels horizontally by 572 high, which distorts the gain to appear at a ratio of 54% stronger than it would otherwise. A one-to-one plot area would scale from "100%" to "200%" for the vertical axis, or in other words, "1x increase" against a "100%" of champion points you could earn on the horizontal axis, aka 3600 in the labels.

(...)

I'm sorry, but you are not making sense. At all. Non-square plots are simply not an issue, and a scale from 100% to 200% would be completely arbitrary and in no way better or more correct. If anything, the base line of the plot could have been put at 0% to make it more clear, making the vertical range 0% to 150%, but the chosen kind of presentation, with 100% at the base line, is pretty much the standard for growth plots. Keeping the empty space from 0% to the reference level of 100% simply makes bad use of the plot area by squeezing the curve into the top third.

There is nothing wrong with the format of the plot, nor with its presentation. Failing to read the numbers on the axes is an observer error, not an author mistake.

Making charts with three times the length possible and then exaggerating the growth is a creator error just like he said. Smh. Do we have a new cap of 10800 CP that was ninja patched? No.

Rune_Relic · July 2015

HxC wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Smiteye wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

You imply I have choice. There is none.
I want to enjoy PVP but I cant compete without grinding on the treadmill.
If I grind on the treadmill, not only do I fail to enjoy PVE, I also spend all my time grinding instead of playing PVE or PVP.
Those that have no job and spend all their time at home on the game can spend 8 hours grinding and 4 hours+ playing PVP or PVE if they like.
Most people if they get 4 hours a day would rather spend that on game.
Even if they split that 2 hour play and 2 hours grind they can never compete and never catch up.

You cannot build a game around appeasing fulltime hardcore players and punishing everyone else.
They don't make up the majority of your playerbase by any stretch of the imagination.
All you are doing is driving the vast majority of your customers away.
As has been amply demonstrated with the collapse of the guilds and playerbase.

I would be more apt to agree with the sentiments of this thread on CP's if there was mathematical proof that CP's have a noteworthy impact on character performance by way of PvP and PvE. As far as "collapse of guilds", it is the life blood of MMOs, every game in the history of MMOs has had a dark era, for many it was a failure for many it was a success.

Only Attorneyatlawl has provided any type of mathematical inquiry and scientific insight, his findings show that grinding CP past a certain point is not numerically significant.
'
With that said so far it shows that skill will still supersede a mathematical advantage in Cyrodiil at this point. Which makes the hamster wheel argument relevant because if CP's truly mean nothing then there is only awaiting the next DLC, which people have already are bored with current content while people like you are trying to enjoy the game.

Before it was too damn hard to get Veteran levels, now it's much easier to gain vet levels. Now its back to every problem every MMO has ever faced, the gap between casuals and hardcore players.

So where do you fill in the gap? Gear? "CPs", Levels?

How many people are going to enjoy the storyline vs PvP/PvE mechanical functionality and blow through Mythos and storytelling and get straight to the endgame?

In my opinion, ZOS is being intelligent by taking their time fixing current issues slowly and methodically rather than rushing content to appease the squeakiest wheel on the ESOTU bus.

Another problem lies in the fact that how can they improve a game when they have to wade through a bunch of bs just to get to the folks who do not soak the forums in their tears and nerdrage and have really well written and coherent concerns and improvements. They are going to soak the "next big thing" in their tears when it fails doesn't spoil them, because they are addicted to riding the hypetrain, I with held my assessments and conclusions for years, but after Stars Wars launch, there it is.

*shrug* That is just me, I am a admittedly patient with this game, I take my time. Not rushing to the end when I know by the time I get there something new, cool, and shiny is going to come out.

I have been one of the few producing figures and not crap....

1234567

..This is stamina increase over standard as CP points increase. Magicka and Health also increase at the same rate. ALL passive/active bonuses are scaled based off magicka/stamina/health as well as spell/weapon damage. So not only do you get damage CS passive increase you also get the CS stat based increase as a double whammy.
What would you give to have a 5 pc set bonus of +15% stamina/magicka/health on top of your existing 5 pc set bonus (350 cp) ?

Now imagine you could have upto ZILCH% increase on all stats.

@TheBonesXXX gets to the actual parts that matter. The chart you show, not only has an ambiguous "100%" starting point, but then paths in a way that doesn't line up with how the system even works.

Your plot area isn't a 1:1 area. It is 886 pixels horizontally by 572 high, which distorts the gain to appear at a ratio of 54% stronger than it would otherwise. A one-to-one plot area would scale from "100%" to "200%" for the vertical axis, or in other words, "1x increase" against a "100%" of champion points you could earn on the horizontal axis, aka 3600 in the labels.

Here's what it looks like, when attempting to present facts objectively on a neutral basis after scaling and adjusting the graph plot area to usual statistical chart presentation standards:

This isn't even mentioning providing a completely unhinged "statistic" from any actual game information or context as to what it supposed to mean.

The bottom line ends up being what @TheBonesXXX got at: what do you want out of your MMO? In a game where skill is enough of a factor that great players can take out 5-10 people alone in PVP, having a progression system to help bridge the gap between work being done on the game and provide a point in doing things game-wide (once the XP is evened out across activities like PVP and PVE/dungeons/trials)... what exactly are you looking for?

How do the cool kids say it... oh right. "Wrecked". @Rune_Relic 's bias just got blown to pieces.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

lol. Wrecked ? Really....
http://asolutionaday.com/calculators-index/
People should check they actually know what they are talking about before they attempt to wreck an argument.

The stamina, magicka and health increase to stat is proportional to existing stat point bias (so varies).
So if you had 20,000 stamina you would get app. 1.49x multiplyer or 149% of base stamina at 3000 cp or 29800 stamina.
As the starting values depend on how many points you have invested in stamina/magicka/health from 1-62.... its impossible to graph the actual quantity of increase (as it varies from player to player)...only the proportion can be modelled universally.
Anything else would be misleading.

There is nothing wrong with the scale of the graph. Its not logarithmic or misleading in anyway.
Its perfectly uniform in x and y axes. It makes it very easy to see what champion points create what magnitude increase.
So the relative proportions of CP or magnitude is completelet irrelevant.....other than personal preference and nit picking.
It starts from 100% with 0cp and then increase above 100% depending on the scale of the multiplyer where 1x current stamina/magicka/health is 100%.
Remove all the CP and you would be back to 100% stamina/magicka/stamina without any CP bonus multiplier.

Is this really the best argument you have ?
Cant argue with the math so attack the way its presented instead ?
Explains everything.

20000 to 29800 is a 49% increase
100 % increase is x2 multiplier.

The Axis should start at 0 if the curve has been there to show "the stamina increase per champion point"
If you made a curve for stamina only the x axis should finish at 1200. Or your curve should not be linear if you put 3000 on x Axis

I'm agree with the other your graph is not a graph it's a green line drew on a grid.

So you are arguing over whether I should have put the increase only or the total value ?

How can I say stamina has increased by 50%..without showing 100% + 50%.
Do we ignore the 100% that we are actually working on then ?

A value multiplied by 1.5 = 150%
(1x 100%) + (0.5x 100%)

Hence 20,000 stamina x 150% = 30,000 stamina

Smiteye · July 2015

Rune_Relic wrote: »

HxC wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Smiteye wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

You imply I have choice. There is none.
I want to enjoy PVP but I cant compete without grinding on the treadmill.
If I grind on the treadmill, not only do I fail to enjoy PVE, I also spend all my time grinding instead of playing PVE or PVP.
Those that have no job and spend all their time at home on the game can spend 8 hours grinding and 4 hours+ playing PVP or PVE if they like.
Most people if they get 4 hours a day would rather spend that on game.
Even if they split that 2 hour play and 2 hours grind they can never compete and never catch up.

You cannot build a game around appeasing fulltime hardcore players and punishing everyone else.
They don't make up the majority of your playerbase by any stretch of the imagination.
All you are doing is driving the vast majority of your customers away.
As has been amply demonstrated with the collapse of the guilds and playerbase.

I would be more apt to agree with the sentiments of this thread on CP's if there was mathematical proof that CP's have a noteworthy impact on character performance by way of PvP and PvE. As far as "collapse of guilds", it is the life blood of MMOs, every game in the history of MMOs has had a dark era, for many it was a failure for many it was a success.

Only Attorneyatlawl has provided any type of mathematical inquiry and scientific insight, his findings show that grinding CP past a certain point is not numerically significant.
'
With that said so far it shows that skill will still supersede a mathematical advantage in Cyrodiil at this point. Which makes the hamster wheel argument relevant because if CP's truly mean nothing then there is only awaiting the next DLC, which people have already are bored with current content while people like you are trying to enjoy the game.

Before it was too damn hard to get Veteran levels, now it's much easier to gain vet levels. Now its back to every problem every MMO has ever faced, the gap between casuals and hardcore players.

So where do you fill in the gap? Gear? "CPs", Levels?

How many people are going to enjoy the storyline vs PvP/PvE mechanical functionality and blow through Mythos and storytelling and get straight to the endgame?

In my opinion, ZOS is being intelligent by taking their time fixing current issues slowly and methodically rather than rushing content to appease the squeakiest wheel on the ESOTU bus.

Another problem lies in the fact that how can they improve a game when they have to wade through a bunch of bs just to get to the folks who do not soak the forums in their tears and nerdrage and have really well written and coherent concerns and improvements. They are going to soak the "next big thing" in their tears when it fails doesn't spoil them, because they are addicted to riding the hypetrain, I with held my assessments and conclusions for years, but after Stars Wars launch, there it is.

*shrug* That is just me, I am a admittedly patient with this game, I take my time. Not rushing to the end when I know by the time I get there something new, cool, and shiny is going to come out.

I have been one of the few producing figures and not crap....

1234567

..This is stamina increase over standard as CP points increase. Magicka and Health also increase at the same rate. ALL passive/active bonuses are scaled based off magicka/stamina/health as well as spell/weapon damage. So not only do you get damage CS passive increase you also get the CS stat based increase as a double whammy.
What would you give to have a 5 pc set bonus of +15% stamina/magicka/health on top of your existing 5 pc set bonus (350 cp) ?

Now imagine you could have upto ZILCH% increase on all stats.

@TheBonesXXX gets to the actual parts that matter. The chart you show, not only has an ambiguous "100%" starting point, but then paths in a way that doesn't line up with how the system even works.

Your plot area isn't a 1:1 area. It is 886 pixels horizontally by 572 high, which distorts the gain to appear at a ratio of 54% stronger than it would otherwise. A one-to-one plot area would scale from "100%" to "200%" for the vertical axis, or in other words, "1x increase" against a "100%" of champion points you could earn on the horizontal axis, aka 3600 in the labels.

Here's what it looks like, when attempting to present facts objectively on a neutral basis after scaling and adjusting the graph plot area to usual statistical chart presentation standards:

This isn't even mentioning providing a completely unhinged "statistic" from any actual game information or context as to what it supposed to mean.

The bottom line ends up being what @TheBonesXXX got at: what do you want out of your MMO? In a game where skill is enough of a factor that great players can take out 5-10 people alone in PVP, having a progression system to help bridge the gap between work being done on the game and provide a point in doing things game-wide (once the XP is evened out across activities like PVP and PVE/dungeons/trials)... what exactly are you looking for?

How do the cool kids say it... oh right. "Wrecked". @Rune_Relic 's bias just got blown to pieces.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

lol. Wrecked ? Really....
http://asolutionaday.com/calculators-index/
People should check they actually know what they are talking about before they attempt to wreck an argument.

The stamina, magicka and health increase to stat is proportional to existing stat point bias (so varies).
So if you had 20,000 stamina you would get app. 1.49x multiplyer or 149% of base stamina at 3000 cp or 29800 stamina.
As the starting values depend on how many points you have invested in stamina/magicka/health from 1-62.... its impossible to graph the actual quantity of increase (as it varies from player to player)...only the proportion can be modelled universally.
Anything else would be misleading.

There is nothing wrong with the scale of the graph. Its not logarithmic or misleading in anyway.
Its perfectly uniform in x and y axes. It makes it very easy to see what champion points create what magnitude increase.
So the relative proportions of CP or magnitude is completelet irrelevant.....other than personal preference and nit picking.
It starts from 100% with 0cp and then increase above 100% depending on the scale of the multiplyer where 1x current stamina/magicka/health is 100%.
Remove all the CP and you would be back to 100% stamina/magicka/stamina without any CP bonus multiplier.

Is this really the best argument you have ?
Cant argue with the math so attack the way its presented instead ?
Explains everything.

20000 to 29800 is a 49% increase
100 % increase is x2 multiplier.

The Axis should start at 0 if the curve has been there to show "the stamina increase per champion point"
If you made a curve for stamina only the x axis should finish at 1200. Or your curve should not be linear if you put 3000 on x Axis

I'm agree with the other your graph is not a graph it's a green line drew on a grid.

So you are arguing over whether I should have put the increase only or the total value ?

How can I say stamina has increased by 50%..without showing 100% + 50%.
Do we ignore the 100% that we are actually working on then ?

A value multiplied by 1.5 = 150%
(1x 100%) + (0.5x 100%)

Hence 20,000 stamina x 150% = 30,000 stamina

What? Where is your stuff even coming from Rofl, you start with about 9.8 thousand stamina at v14. Champ gives ten per point in its color so green for this. 1200 points turns to 12 thousand stamina before gear passives and buffs. You're completely off on left field out of bounds of fact now....

ch.ris317b14_ESO · July 2015

Who gives a [snip] about BLOODY CHARTS!?!?!?!?!

It aint about the charts folks.... its about not being a HAMSTER EATING [snip] ON A WHEEL!!!!!

endless grind... regardless of competitive advantage .... IS NOT FUN

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Smiteye · July 2015

ch.ris317b14_ESO wrote: »

Who gives a [snip] about BLOODY CHARTS!?!?!?!?!

It aint about the charts folks.... its about not being a HAMSTER EATING [snip] ON A WHEEL!!!!!

endless grind... regardless of competitive advantage .... IS NOT FUN

Not endless it ends at 3600 points. Not grinding, I get mine doing vet dsa and pvp tho pvp xp needs to be buffed since it's so much slower. Mmo kinds means progression, guess you didn't read about mmo before buying eso? See if you can get a refund

.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Seaber · July 2015

Smiteye wrote: »

What? Where is your stuff even coming from Rofl, you start with about 9.8 thousand stamina at v14. Champ gives ten per point in its color so green for this. 1200 points turns to 12 thousand stamina before gear passives and buffs. You're completely off on left field out of bounds of fact now....

Please look at this.

Seaber wrote: »

No. Wrong.

0 CPs:
http://i.imgur.com/aNP1Hry.jpg

3600 CPs:
http://i.imgur.com/T5KlC9X.jpg

Both pictures were taken while wearing the medium armour that the pts templates are given.

Smiteye · July 2015

Seaber wrote: »

Smiteye wrote: »

What? Where is your stuff even coming from Rofl, you start with about 9.8 thousand stamina at v14. Champ gives ten per point in its color so green for this. 1200 points turns to 12 thousand stamina before gear passives and buffs. You're completely off on left field out of bounds of fact now....

Please look at this.

Seaber wrote: »

No. Wrong.

0 CPs:
http://i.imgur.com/aNP1Hry.jpg

3600 CPs:
http://i.imgur.com/T5KlC9X.jpg

Both pictures were taken while wearing the medium armour that the pts templates are given.

Wearing armor with passives trained that modify the end result, just like was said already. You get 10 each point then passives gear and everything else adds and multiplies. Please Don't be an accountant.

Seaber · July 2015

Smiteye wrote: »

Seaber wrote: »

Smiteye wrote: »

What? Where is your stuff even coming from Rofl, you start with about 9.8 thousand stamina at v14. Champ gives ten per point in its color so green for this. 1200 points turns to 12 thousand stamina before gear passives and buffs. You're completely off on left field out of bounds of fact now....

Please look at this.

Seaber wrote: »

No. Wrong.

0 CPs:
http://i.imgur.com/aNP1Hry.jpg

3600 CPs:
http://i.imgur.com/T5KlC9X.jpg

Both pictures were taken while wearing the medium armour that the pts templates are given.

Wearing armor with passives trained that modify the end result, just like was said already. You get 10 each point then passives gear and everything else adds and multiplies. Please Don't be an accountant.

Try dividing the hp, stamina and mana in the 3600 CPs picture by the health, stamina and mana in the 0 CPs picture.

Furor · July 2015

Smiteye wrote: »

Please Don't be an accountant.

@Attorneyatlawl's new character name

HxC · July 2015

Rune_Relic wrote: »

HxC wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Smiteye wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

You imply I have choice. There is none.
I want to enjoy PVP but I cant compete without grinding on the treadmill.
If I grind on the treadmill, not only do I fail to enjoy PVE, I also spend all my time grinding instead of playing PVE or PVP.
Those that have no job and spend all their time at home on the game can spend 8 hours grinding and 4 hours+ playing PVP or PVE if they like.
Most people if they get 4 hours a day would rather spend that on game.
Even if they split that 2 hour play and 2 hours grind they can never compete and never catch up.

You cannot build a game around appeasing fulltime hardcore players and punishing everyone else.
They don't make up the majority of your playerbase by any stretch of the imagination.
All you are doing is driving the vast majority of your customers away.
As has been amply demonstrated with the collapse of the guilds and playerbase.

I would be more apt to agree with the sentiments of this thread on CP's if there was mathematical proof that CP's have a noteworthy impact on character performance by way of PvP and PvE. As far as "collapse of guilds", it is the life blood of MMOs, every game in the history of MMOs has had a dark era, for many it was a failure for many it was a success.

Only Attorneyatlawl has provided any type of mathematical inquiry and scientific insight, his findings show that grinding CP past a certain point is not numerically significant.
'
With that said so far it shows that skill will still supersede a mathematical advantage in Cyrodiil at this point. Which makes the hamster wheel argument relevant because if CP's truly mean nothing then there is only awaiting the next DLC, which people have already are bored with current content while people like you are trying to enjoy the game.

Before it was too damn hard to get Veteran levels, now it's much easier to gain vet levels. Now its back to every problem every MMO has ever faced, the gap between casuals and hardcore players.

So where do you fill in the gap? Gear? "CPs", Levels?

How many people are going to enjoy the storyline vs PvP/PvE mechanical functionality and blow through Mythos and storytelling and get straight to the endgame?

In my opinion, ZOS is being intelligent by taking their time fixing current issues slowly and methodically rather than rushing content to appease the squeakiest wheel on the ESOTU bus.

Another problem lies in the fact that how can they improve a game when they have to wade through a bunch of bs just to get to the folks who do not soak the forums in their tears and nerdrage and have really well written and coherent concerns and improvements. They are going to soak the "next big thing" in their tears when it fails doesn't spoil them, because they are addicted to riding the hypetrain, I with held my assessments and conclusions for years, but after Stars Wars launch, there it is.

*shrug* That is just me, I am a admittedly patient with this game, I take my time. Not rushing to the end when I know by the time I get there something new, cool, and shiny is going to come out.

I have been one of the few producing figures and not crap....

1234567

..This is stamina increase over standard as CP points increase. Magicka and Health also increase at the same rate. ALL passive/active bonuses are scaled based off magicka/stamina/health as well as spell/weapon damage. So not only do you get damage CS passive increase you also get the CS stat based increase as a double whammy.
What would you give to have a 5 pc set bonus of +15% stamina/magicka/health on top of your existing 5 pc set bonus (350 cp) ?

Now imagine you could have upto ZILCH% increase on all stats.

@TheBonesXXX gets to the actual parts that matter. The chart you show, not only has an ambiguous "100%" starting point, but then paths in a way that doesn't line up with how the system even works.

Your plot area isn't a 1:1 area. It is 886 pixels horizontally by 572 high, which distorts the gain to appear at a ratio of 54% stronger than it would otherwise. A one-to-one plot area would scale from "100%" to "200%" for the vertical axis, or in other words, "1x increase" against a "100%" of champion points you could earn on the horizontal axis, aka 3600 in the labels.

Here's what it looks like, when attempting to present facts objectively on a neutral basis after scaling and adjusting the graph plot area to usual statistical chart presentation standards:

This isn't even mentioning providing a completely unhinged "statistic" from any actual game information or context as to what it supposed to mean.

The bottom line ends up being what @TheBonesXXX got at: what do you want out of your MMO? In a game where skill is enough of a factor that great players can take out 5-10 people alone in PVP, having a progression system to help bridge the gap between work being done on the game and provide a point in doing things game-wide (once the XP is evened out across activities like PVP and PVE/dungeons/trials)... what exactly are you looking for?

How do the cool kids say it... oh right. "Wrecked". @Rune_Relic 's bias just got blown to pieces.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

lol. Wrecked ? Really....
http://asolutionaday.com/calculators-index/
People should check they actually know what they are talking about before they attempt to wreck an argument.

The stamina, magicka and health increase to stat is proportional to existing stat point bias (so varies).
So if you had 20,000 stamina you would get app. 1.49x multiplyer or 149% of base stamina at 3000 cp or 29800 stamina.
As the starting values depend on how many points you have invested in stamina/magicka/health from 1-62.... its impossible to graph the actual quantity of increase (as it varies from player to player)...only the proportion can be modelled universally.
Anything else would be misleading.

There is nothing wrong with the scale of the graph. Its not logarithmic or misleading in anyway.
Its perfectly uniform in x and y axes. It makes it very easy to see what champion points create what magnitude increase.
So the relative proportions of CP or magnitude is completelet irrelevant.....other than personal preference and nit picking.
It starts from 100% with 0cp and then increase above 100% depending on the scale of the multiplyer where 1x current stamina/magicka/health is 100%.
Remove all the CP and you would be back to 100% stamina/magicka/stamina without any CP bonus multiplier.

Is this really the best argument you have ?
Cant argue with the math so attack the way its presented instead ?
Explains everything.

20000 to 29800 is a 49% increase
100 % increase is x2 multiplier.

The Axis should start at 0 if the curve has been there to show "the stamina increase per champion point"
If you made a curve for stamina only the x axis should finish at 1200. Or your curve should not be linear if you put 3000 on x Axis

I'm agree with the other your graph is not a graph it's a green line drew on a grid.

So you are arguing over whether I should have put the increase only or the total value ?

How can I say stamina has increased by 50%..without showing 100% + 50%.
Do we ignore the 100% that we are actually working on then ?

A value multiplied by 1.5 = 150%
(1x 100%) + (0.5x 100%)

Hence 20,000 stamina x 150% = 30,000 stamina

Your graph is about the INCREASE OF STAMINA PER CHAMPION POINT
The name of your Y axis is Percent of stamina increase , so the value on Y axis should start at 0 because at 0 CP the increase is 0.

And on the x Axis you should put only the Thief points because Warrior and Mage don't give stamina.
As a said if you put all CP point no matter if they give stamina or not your curve should not be like that.

So everything is wrong with your "graph", the look of a curve showing the increase per cp should be a strait line(thief point only) because the base bonus is a flat number or look like a staicase if you put all CP on your axis (Warrior, Mage, Thief).

Furor · July 2015

Seaber wrote: »

Try dividing the hp, stamina and mana in the 3600 CPs picture by the health, stamina and mana in the 0 CPs picture.

Please note this race is a High elf. That's 10% max magicka pool from racial abilities.

Nightblade has several racials that affect total resource pools:
Magicka flood (Max magicka by 8%)
Dark Vigor (2% health per shadow ability slotted.

Note that in those two screenshots one has a "Nourishing" and "Spell Shield" buff has the other does not.

We have no proof what abilities he has trained that would affect those end numbers.
We have no proof what gear is equipped.
We have no proof how many champion points were spent into each tree.

If you think those screenshots are valid evidence then I fear for you my friend...

Smiteye · July 2015

Furor wrote: »

Seaber wrote: »

Try dividing the hp, stamina and mana in the 3600 CPs picture by the health, stamina and mana in the 0 CPs picture.

Please note this race is a High elf. That's 10% max magicka pool from racial abilities.

Nightblade has several racials that affect total resource pools:
Magicka flood (Max magicka by 8%)
Dark Vigor (2% health per shadow ability slotted.

Note that in those two screenshots one has a "Nourishing" and "Spell Shield" buff has the other does not.

We have no proof what abilities he has trained that would affect those end numbers.
We have no proof what gear is equipped.
We have no proof how many champion points were spent into each tree.

If you think those screenshots are valid evidence then I fear for you my friend...

I really hope he never becomes an accountant. Lol by the way at the character name, maybe attorney'll take it

! No wonder he hasn't come back in yet, I'd be fed up arguing too. Misleading graphs calling everything else crap from rune relic , insults from the Stefano person, faked screenshots from what I see from seaber full of derision, and the one person posting facts and useful math gets modded. Smh. You're doing the lords work furor. Attorney too.

Mastery404 · July 2015

Smiteye wrote: »

Mmo kinds means progression, guess you didn't read about mmo before buying eso? See if you can get a refund .

MMO means Massive Multiplayer Online.

Smiteye · July 2015

Mastery404 wrote: »

Smiteye wrote: »

Mmo kinds means progression, guess you didn't read about mmo before buying eso? See if you can get a refund .

MMO means Massive Multiplayer Online.

Yes what aaa mmo doesn't have progression, you bought Mario Brothers and expected no jumping?

Seaber · July 2015

Smiteye wrote: »

I really hope he never becomes an accountant. Lol by the way at the character name, maybe attorney'll take it ! No wonder he hasn't come back in yet, I'd be fed up arguing too. Misleading graphs calling everything else crap from rune relic , insults from the Stefano person, faked screenshots from what I see from seaber full of derision, and the one person posting facts and useful math gets modded. Smh. You're doing the lords work furor. Attorney too.

Furor wrote: »

If you think those screenshots are valid evidence then I fear for you my friend...

If you don't believe me then you should go on the pts and do it for yourself.

Bromburak · July 2015

Mastery404 wrote: »

Smiteye wrote: »

Mmo kinds means progression, guess you didn't read about mmo before buying eso? See if you can get a refund .

MMO means Massive Multiplayer Online.

And RPG stands for Role Playing Greediness.

Smiteye · July 2015

Seaber wrote: »

Smiteye wrote: »

I really hope he never becomes an accountant. Lol by the way at the character name, maybe attorney'll take it ! No wonder he hasn't come back in yet, I'd be fed up arguing too. Misleading graphs calling everything else crap from rune relic , insults from the Stefano person, faked screenshots from what I see from seaber full of derision, and the one person posting facts and useful math gets modded. Smh. You're doing the lords work furor. Attorney too.

Furor wrote: »

If you think those screenshots are valid evidence then I fear for you my friend...

If you don't believe me then you should go on the pts and do it for yourself.

I did already. Your screen shot is impossible as 3600cp. That means every passive too, and you only show two of the ones that should on the character sheet, with too small change of armor total and other buffs, and you said you wore medium armor set from the template which is v14.

And a cropped single screenshots is junk anyway. I get 12000 health and magicka and stamina when using a naked character and not wearing gear with passives Un trained.

Passives and all are how I knew it was fake when I first saw your screen crops. Now not only rune relic owes an apology for misleading and insulting guys showing the facts by posting bad fakes.

Already enough anger in these forums without lies stoking the flames.

ch.ris317b14_ESO · July 2015

Smiteye wrote: »

ch.ris317b14_ESO wrote: »

Who gives a [snip] about BLOODY CHARTS!?!?!?!?!

It aint about the charts folks.... its about not being a HAMSTER EATING [snip] ON A WHEEL!!!!!

endless grind... regardless of competitive advantage .... IS NOT FUN

Not endless it ends at 3600 points. Not grinding, I get mine doing vet dsa and pvp tho pvp xp needs to be buffed since it's so much slower. Mmo kinds means progression, guess you didn't read about mmo before buying eso? See if you can get a refund .

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Progression means actual new content... not repeating the same thing a thousand times

Nice try

Tweek · July 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcV7HYE8JZ8

Seaber · July 2015

Smiteye wrote: »

I did already.

You are the one lying.

idk · July 2015

I agree with much of the OP. It's been my long term oppinion Zos has lacked strong central leadership and I feel this has been a big part of their scope creep (keeping a focus on their plans). Their vision has not been clear and couldn't be clear even to themselves since it has changed many times since inception.

it seems to me most of the reasons the devs have provided us to play the game is to grind levels and grind CP. as a result, a game with fabulous lore, a beautiful world and the best combat system I have seen is the least enjoyable to play. It's unfortunate that content developement on a whole has been lacking but also that the mechanics within the high end pve content has a simple minded approach.

I still hold out hope that a brighter day lays ahead for tamriel.

Smiteye · July 2015

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

I agree with much of the OP. It's been my long term oppinion Zos has lacked strong central leadership and I feel this has been a big part of their scope creep (keeping a focus on their plans). Their vision has not been clear and Co can't be clear even to themselves since it has changed many times since inception.

it seems to me most of the reasons the devs have provided us to play the game is to grind levels and grind CP. as a result, a game with fabulous lore, a beautiful world and the best combat system I have seen is the least enjoyable to play. It's unfortunate that content developement on a whole has been lacking but also that the mechanics within the high end pve content has a simple minded approach.

I still hold out hope that a brighter day lays ahead for tamriel.

No problem is UI hiding all the combat, and there being too much conflict when they have added stuff like champ instead of people saying cool, now give us a reason to go back to previous zones to work this system like v14 hard mode versions of all the zones. Instead just with the UI so much whining happened they thought they needed to change things repeatedly instead of continuing them and as usual us long term players pay the price for story tourists' complaints. Now zenimax is adding UI stuff back but it was in a year and a half ago and taken out because of whiners. It never should have left. Champ is good too but may be neutered or removed because of whiners. Six months later they will see it should have stayed and zenimax will have to go back and waste more time putting it back in. Then you're going to complain they didn't add new content when you made them run in circles. Sigh.

Stop taking good things out. Stop whining until they do. Stop miring the games development and if you don't like the game go find something you like instead!!

THEDKEXPERIENCE · July 2015

Can this be the day this thread dies? Please say yes. Has anyone seen Deltia these last 2 weeks? I'm concerned because I thought that the entire world would have returned their games by now leaving me as the Emperor of No One. It's almost as if this is hyperbole?! Say it ain't so. I'm sure once I get home my game will cease to work and I'll feel better.

Side note: I just started getting Champion Points. Can't wait to break the game further for those who can't see that 95% of their complaints simply boil down to them not being actually good at it.

Smiteye · July 2015

Seaber wrote: »

Smiteye wrote: »

I did already.

You are the one lying.

So no rebuttal to being found out, just denial.... Im done here. Have fun.

idk · July 2015

Smiteye wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

I agree with much of the OP. It's been my long term oppinion Zos has lacked strong central leadership and I feel this has been a big part of their scope creep (keeping a focus on their plans). Their vision has not been clear and Co can't be clear even to themselves since it has changed many times since inception.

it seems to me most of the reasons the devs have provided us to play the game is to grind levels and grind CP. as a result, a game with fabulous lore, a beautiful world and the best combat system I have seen is the least enjoyable to play. It's unfortunate that content developement on a whole has been lacking but also that the mechanics within the high end pve content has a simple minded approach.

I still hold out hope that a brighter day lays ahead for tamriel.

No problem is UI hiding all the combat, and there being too much conflict when they have added stuff like champ instead of people saying cool, now give us a reason to go back to previous zones to work this system like v14 hard mode versions of all the zones. Instead just with the UI so much whining happened they thought they needed to change things repeatedly instead of continuing them and as usual us long term players pay the price for story tourists' complaints. Now zenimax is adding UI stuff back but it was in a year and a half ago and taken out because of whiners. It never should have left. Champ is good too but may be neutered or removed because of whiners. Six months later they will see it should have stayed and zenimax will have to go back and waste more time putting it back in. Then you're going to complain they didn't add new content when you made them run in circles. Sigh.

Stop taking good things out. Stop whining until they do. Stop miring the games development and if you don't like the game go find something you like instead!!

Not sure why you said No to my thread then went on to explain how I am correct by, sort of, noting much of the devs choices, but thanks. There is further detail explaining all thei going back to before the API issues just before launch since this all goes back to early beta, not a year & 1/2 ago.

ch.ris317b14_ESO · July 2015

Replace Vet ranks and CP with a minigame the quality of gwent fron witcher 3.... and the servers will break.