The Day ESO Dies

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Ixtyr wrote: »

I don't believe I've commented in this thread yet - but I do want to voice my personal opinion on this entire matter, so I'll do so below.

I have spent about 3 days thinking about this and was about to post my 2 cents on the topic, but you pretty much took care of it for me. Also, Deltia, love your site/videos and very glad you spoke your mind.

I have been playing since beta and have 2 V14s and 2 V1s. I leveled the last 2 characters to V1 in anticipation of the removal of level caps and CP pre 1.6. I absolutely love this game, but I also simply don't have the time to play the way others do. I am primarily an End-Game PvE player. I worry that this next update will drive many players away, potentially including myself.

My two issues are very much in line with what is above.

Vet Levels:
I frankly do not see the point of adding more vet levels when the long term plan is to remove them. You can make new content harder without raising the level cap. I have 3 good friends that left the game somewhere between Vet 1-3. We all leveled together to Vet 1 and then were presented with the very daunting task of basically doing that again times about 2.5-3 or grinding for 2 weeks straight to truly participate in end game. 75% of the group decided that was not what they wanted from a game.

I am also very concerned that all the gear that i spent 9 months saving for is about to become completely worthless. A lot of people, myself included, broke their banks to go after end game gear when 1.6 hit. Gold Mat prices are on the rise, and my guess is with the current economy, you will see new gear going for 200k+ a pop. I am all for new gear that subtlety changes the prototypical builds, but to essentially render my old gear worthless is going to hurt, and I am afraid that a combo of new sets along with a raise in level cap will do just that. If i need to farm another 2 million gold to be competitive in end game, I don't know that I will continue.

I love the solution of having certain types of gear scale to player level. Another solution would be to find a way to realize some value for that piece you spent 130k and 8 gold mats on. Significantly upping the decon rate of gold mats from gold gear would be a start. Another solution would be to give crafter's more freedom to actually improve the level of gear (traits and motifs wouldnt hurt either).

Champion Points:
This is theoretically a wonderful idea. Sure there needs to be some balancing figured out, but its generally on the right path. The problem as stated many times above is the ever growing gap between casuals and CP grinders. I am sitting around 220 myself. I am personally starting to feel the gap between DPS I can do compared to those with 2-3 times as many points. It is a very noticeable difference. I am terribly worried that sometime soon I will be to far behind to compete for spot on the leader-boards.

There are many ways to accomplish the same goal. The seasonal limit sounds pretty solid to me. Here's another idea, dont give CP from Mobs, or at the very least, drastically nerf it. IMO Champion Points should come from playing the game, not grinding. Buff CP from: achievements, questing, dailys, trials, PvP kills, etc. Increasing the power of enlightenment would also help. Make a non-enlightened CP cost more AND slowly increase it as you gain more CP.

Again, this system is overall a wonderful thing, but the growing player gap needs to be addressed before it's too late. End of rant.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Ixtyr wrote: »

I don't believe I've commented in this thread yet - but I do want to voice my personal opinion on this entire matter, so I'll do so below.

I have spent about 3 days thinking about this and was about to post my 2 cents on the topic, but you pretty much took care of it for me. Also, Deltia, love your site/videos and very glad you spoke your mind.

I have been playing since beta and have 2 V14s and 2 V1s. I leveled the last 2 characters to V1 in anticipation of the removal of level caps and CP pre 1.6. I absolutely love this game, but I also simply don't have the time to play the way others do. I am primarily an End-Game PvE player. I worry that this next update will drive many players away, potentially including myself.

My two issues are very much in line with what is above.

Vet Levels:
I frankly do not see the point of adding more vet levels when the long term plan is to remove them. You can make new content harder without raising the level cap. I have 3 good friends that left the game somewhere between Vet 1-3. We all leveled together to Vet 1 and then were presented with the very daunting task of basically doing that again times about 2.5-3 or grinding for 2 weeks straight to truly participate in end game. 75% of the group decided that was not what they wanted from a game.

I am also very concerned that all the gear that i spent 9 months saving for is about to become completely worthless. A lot of people, myself included, broke their banks to go after end game gear when 1.6 hit. Gold Mat prices are on the rise, and my guess is with the current economy, you will see new gear going for 200k+ a pop. I am all for new gear that subtlety changes the prototypical builds, but to essentially render my old gear worthless is going to hurt, and I am afraid that a combo of new sets along with a raise in level cap will do just that. If i need to farm another 2 million gold to be competitive in end game, I don't know that I will continue.

I love the solution of having certain types of gear scale to player level. Another solution would be to find a way to realize some value for that piece you spent 130k and 8 gold mats on. Significantly upping the decon rate of gold mats from gold gear would be a start. Another solution would be to give crafter's more freedom to actually improve the level of gear (traits and motifs wouldnt hurt either).

Champion Points:
This is theoretically a wonderful idea. Sure there needs to be some balancing figured out, but its generally on the right path. The problem as stated many times above is the ever growing gap between casuals and CP grinders. I am sitting around 220 myself. I am personally starting to feel the gap between DPS I can do compared to those with 2-3 times as many points. It is a very noticeable difference. I am terribly worried that sometime soon I will be to far behind to compete for spot on the leader-boards.

There are many ways to accomplish the same goal. The seasonal limit sounds pretty solid to me. Here's another idea, dont give CP from Mobs, or at the very least, drastically nerf it. IMO Champion Points should come from playing the game, not grinding. Buff CP from: achievements, questing, dailys, trials, PvP kills, etc. Increasing the power of enlightenment would also help. Make a non-enlightened CP cost more AND slowly increase it as you gain more CP.

Again, this system is overall a wonderful thing, but the growing player gap needs to be addressed before it's too late. End of rant.

Enraged_Tiki_Torch

lathbury wrote: »

you forgot the extra stats that those cp provide especially when they are buffed with racial or other passives that give a stat a percentage buff

Yeah, but those are for a different time, CP is enough here. I won't get started on Racials.

The Champion Point system comes in Tiers. 90 is the first where you get the 12% Crit passive, and 360 is the next, and so on. For the next tier...

If that 360 character is a Sorc, the next 300 points for example could go to Thaumaturge which increases magic damage by 25%. That's incredibly strong with Velicious Curse, Crystal Frags, and Inevitable Detonation. Then cap out the other abilities in the Thief tree and pick up Bastion. So at 660 CP, players are still receiving some really powerful buffs over players who are still in the previous tier.

Same with other builds, the increase doesn't stop fully until 1600ish depending on build. If I use the same 4:1 ratio, one player will be at 1600 CP while the other is at 400 CP. Even if the difference of each point is .1%, that is still a 120% increase in buffs.

It's not the Champion Point System or Grinding itself, it's :

1) The CP cap is so ridiculously high
2) XP gain is the way to earn Champion Points
3) There isn't enough content so grinding is the only realistic way to earn XP at V14

I am wondering what they come up with. Hinting at a catch-up method is baffling because I can't think of one that will make up 480 million XP without being more problematic than the system we have now. My experience with so many games that went with the micro transaction model is it will be some Crown Store item. I hope not...

Sorry I sound so "sky is falling".

Vahrokh

LillyAngel wrote: »

You people are forgetting that this is an MMO and every MMO has a level cap raise once in a while.

Once a while, MMOs add new content and at the same time raise level cap.

Titansteele

I remain very nervous around the removal of the VR ranks. Where I am not married to them in any way and will not shed a tear upon their demise I am concerned around things like gear and zone/dungeon scaling and the likes if there is nothing to scale against. There are solutions to these problems, they are by no means "show stoppers" however the success of a move like this is all dependent upon what solutions are selected.

Getting the VR removal wrong will be the day that ESO dies for me. I think that with some clever tweaks to the existing system and new content to justify level cap increases all will be well. redirecting the man hours that would be saved by leaving the VR system alone into the content train would be my utopia.

Snowgoons

I think they should have left all this clown VR *** on PC if they were going to leave text chat, addons, and damage/healing numbers PC only.

ZOS allowing PC to console transfers was a shameless cash grab, probably why we have the stupid VR ranks. I mean you couldn't have people pay you to transfer and remove their VR right? Tsk Tsk ZOS at least be crafty when you try to bend over your consumers.

BuggeX

Snowgoons wrote: »

I think they should have left all this clown VR *** on PC if they were going to leave text chat, addons, and damage/healing numbers PC only.

ZOS allowing PC to console transfers was a shameless cash grab, probably why we have the stupid VR ranks.

it wasnt a cash grab, get you *** right attleast.
It was because console Version should be releas November and cause of the displacement they made the promise that console Player can start on pc if they want and trans to console on the Launch.

Armitas

Vizier wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

If the notion is true that the CP power gap is not that significant then it will have to change it's appearance to change peoples perception. The appearance of the champion system reaches everyone, the detailed truth of it will only reach a few.

...thinking back, It is unfortunate that they inflated our stats to make the CP points appear more significant, as that is a major portion of the perception real or imaginary.

You mention the inflating of stats to make CP bonuses seem more significant, however this would only be true if the CP bonuses were flat values like "adds 200 weapon damage."

This is not the case however. All of the CP bonuses to primary stats are PERCENTAGE based, thus rendering the inflating of stats completely irrelevant. I don't care if you add 50 zeroes after my weapon damage, 25% is 25%.

• 25% more damage from physical/magic attacks.
• 25% more damage from weapons.
• 25% more critical damage.
• 25% stronger shields.
• 25% more resistant to elemental damage.
• 25% more resistant to poison/magic damage.
• 25% cheaper roll/break free.
• 25% more magic/stamina regen.
• 25% cheaper casting of magicka/stamina abilities.
• etc.

Now, go up against that 24/7 grinder and tell me the power gap is just a misperception.

I was paraphrasing ZOS on that. They have stated that this was why they inflated the stats. They tested the CP system at
I don't think we need mathematics to agree with that conclusion either. As you say "25% more" 'everything', inside a pvp role that makes use of everything is going to be significant right toward the very end of the champion system.

I'd venture that most players are still below 300 points and a very few like 1% have up to 700ish. So this is a total red herring.

As soon as someone gets to Veteran rank they start closing the gap pretty quickly. We're talking about a 10-15% gap vs anyone that's been playing awhile and That's only if someone they are fighting as a passive that is maxed out which at this point is unlikely. So in truth the gap right now between long time players and newer players just isn't that significant, barring a few exceptions. So ya, this "gap" you're speaking of is a total misperception.

A red herring is something that distracts from the important issue being discussed. The issue itself is not a red herring, that is the topic of discussion.

I am at 250 under a casual gamplay schedule of about 1 CP to 1.5 CP a day. I don't even consider myself an active player right now either. I log in every other day, kill my enlightenment and then switch over to dragon age. Before the reduced schedule I spent most of my time PvPing rather than grinding which is not a good source of XP (rate and value), and my max schedule was 26 hours a week. I imagine I am at the lower end of the spectrum of those that were Vet capped at CPS release. Surely anyone that has actively played the game since CPS release could do much better than 250. So I don't think those figures represent any hard accuracy and the 1% is just a flat out guess.

When someone reaches vet rank they start earning CP, not closing the gap. Whether or not they begin to close the gap depends on their XP earnage rate compared to the gap they are closing. I do not know where you are deriving this 10-15% gap from so I cannot follow you to your conclusion that it is a "misperception". Your analysis also makes no note of the fact that the gap is a growing gap, not a static gap, and the fact that the gap has just been accelerated by xp scrolls. So even if your numbers are right their point is ephemeral.

Hiero_Glyph

BuggeX wrote: »

Snowgoons wrote: »

I think they should have left all this clown VR *** on PC if they were going to leave text chat, addons, and damage/healing numbers PC only.

ZOS allowing PC to console transfers was a shameless cash grab, probably why we have the stupid VR ranks.

it wasnt a cash grab, get you *** right attleast.
It was because console Version should be releas November and cause of the displacement they made the promise that console Player can start on pc if they want and trans to console on the Launch.

And how does a PC transfer benefit the majority of console players? Worse yet, why was it an account copy and not a transfer if the intent was to compensate for the delay of the console version's release? Sounds to me like PC players benefitted twice while true console players only get half of the benefit, if they actually owned a gaming PC. Cash grab indeed.

ch.ris317b14_ESO

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Snowgoons wrote: »

I think they should have left all this clown VR *** on PC if they were going to leave text chat, addons, and damage/healing numbers PC only.

ZOS allowing PC to console transfers was a shameless cash grab, probably why we have the stupid VR ranks.

it wasnt a cash grab, get you *** right attleast.
It was because console Version should be releas November and cause of the displacement they made the promise that console Player can start on pc if they want and trans to console on the Launch.

And how does a PC transfer benefit the majority of console players? Worse yet, why was it an account copy and not a transfer if the intent was to compensate for the delay of the console version's release? Sounds to me like PC players benefitted twice while true console players only get half of the benefit, if they actually owned a gaming PC. Cash grab indeed.

The cash grab was not the transfer... it was in cutting off the eligibility in june, and making console players buy the game again.

Sagarra05

Preach!! ☝

Neolink7

Maybe I'm missing something here but adding "seasons" to the CP system doesn't fix anything really. There's still no catch up mechanic there. Someone who's been playing longer or has more "seasons" will still always have more CP.

tordr86b16_ESO

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

snip

This basically

tordr86b16_ESO

Neolink7 wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something here but adding "seasons" to the CP system doesn't fix anything really. There's still no catch up mechanic there. Someone who's been playing longer or has more "seasons" will still always have more CP.

The unfairness of it all!

ch.ris317b14_ESO

Neolink7 wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something here but adding "seasons" to the CP system doesn't fix anything really. There's still no catch up mechanic there. Someone who's been playing longer or has more "seasons" will still always have more CP.

Each new season would presumably reduce the amount of time needed to obtain the previous seasons cp cap

But yes, it doesnt solve the underlying .... complete lack of content issue.

tordr86b16_ESO

ch.ris317b14_ESO wrote: »

Neolink7 wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something here but adding "seasons" to the CP system doesn't fix anything really. There's still no catch up mechanic there. Someone who's been playing longer or has more "seasons" will still always have more CP.

Each new season would presumably reduce the amount of time needed to obtain the previous seasons cp cap

But yes, it doesnt solve the underlying .... complete lack of content issue.

Yep, we are sorta pigeonholed into grinding because of it. You have a few dailies, but the most that exist in the game are located in Cyrodiil.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Ixtyr wrote: »

I don't believe I've commented in this thread yet - but I do want to voice my personal opinion on this entire matter, so I'll do so below.

TL;DR

There is none. Just read it. If you don't, well, that's your choice, and I fully respect that, as I know it's a long post. But I've been typing this for the past three hours after thinking about it for a full week (plus time spent before Eric's announcement on ESO Live), and this is about as clear and succinct (yes, succinct) as I can get about it.

First off WOW.

Just WOW.

Yes your post is long, but having read it all (twice to make sure I got everything) I agree there is no way for you to trim that for TL/DR.

In fact anyone who genuinely cares about the current state of the game SHOULD read it.

As to the game to which you refer [REDACTED], up until level 50 that game is brilliant; but as you point out the Attunement process is just horrible. I left as my Main got the level 50 around Xmas last year; some of my guild (mainly 35+ years old, casual players) who were at level 50 with me then are still, even now, running through various phases of Attunement. I left because despite my Guild Leader telling me Attunement wasn't an artificial time-sink grind it was apparent to me, from the get-go that it was.

In fact, having read your post (twice) I now see that part of the reason I get heated (very heated sometimes) about the current state of ESO is precisely because of the parallels between it and [REDACTED]. I left [REDACTED]to get away from that, and eventually found my way to ESO because of the vibrant, slick, action orientated combat and the deep and rich lore of Elder Scrolls that I fell in love with in Skyrim.

It "hurt" quite a lot when I hit Cadwell's Silver and found the same thing here; especially as that type of thing seemed so totally alien to the ES ethos.

Zenimax could do a lot worse than take your thread and make it the road-map for the next 6-12 months for ESO; the game would be immeasurably improved IMO and would finally start to tap in to the reservoir of potential that is lurking just beneath its current surface.

Thank you for the thought and time you put in to that post.

All The Best

Bromburak

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

snip

This basically

1. Lower left corner = Content.
2. Black background = Density of CP.

Armitas

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

snip

This basically

The aliens would never let us get that close to their base of operations... or would they...

markt84

Really this wouldn't be too bad right now on consoles if they didn't allow PC transfers. Because console players would all be around the same level, none of them being OP yet because it takes a lot of time to get all those champion points. I get why they did it, to give something to the guys that stuck through the really bad times, but it caused a huge issues on consoles. And there is no easy way to fix it without taking something away from the OP players which isn't right, or adding a huge pool of champion points to lower level guys (like they already do with a mag, stam, and health buff), but u don't want those lower levels to be able to 1v1 a vet 14. Not sure the solution, but it needs to get fixed soon or there will be no new blood to the game. I love this game and want to play it for years, just hope PvP isn't too broken to survive

Hiero_Glyph

ch.ris317b14_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Snowgoons wrote: »

I think they should have left all this clown VR *** on PC if they were going to leave text chat, addons, and damage/healing numbers PC only.

ZOS allowing PC to console transfers was a shameless cash grab, probably why we have the stupid VR ranks.

it wasnt a cash grab, get you *** right attleast.
It was because console Version should be releas November and cause of the displacement they made the promise that console Player can start on pc if they want and trans to console on the Launch.

And how does a PC transfer benefit the majority of console players? Worse yet, why was it an account copy and not a transfer if the intent was to compensate for the delay of the console version's release? Sounds to me like PC players benefitted twice while true console players only get half of the benefit, if they actually owned a gaming PC. Cash grab indeed.

The cash grab was not the transfer... it was in cutting off the eligibility in june, and making console players buy the game again.

Let's not forget the subscription that was required as well. Anyway, the point is that if you are offering compensation you try to target the group affected, not the one that is having entirely separate issues of their own.

No console player wants to be at such a large disadvantage on day 1. Worse yet, CP were added and included in the copy making the separation all the worse. Sadly, ZoS still hasn't properly addressed this issue even though it affects 2/3 of the community. I enjoy ESO but it continues to be mismanaged and ZoS is far too slow to adjust to their own missteps (CP catchup, text chat, add-on support, UI customizaion, etc.).

marco.cuevas.ventob14_ESO

Perspective from brand new player


First I did not read all 37 pages but I read enough to know that there is definitely a disconnect between ZOS and the community regarding a lot of things related to EOS.

I did test the beta for ZOS game was unrecognizable for an elder scrolls game I was very surprised.

I am not regretting my choice(of buying the game) I am actually enjoying myself very much but I am a level 30 only and have no desire to even get VR1 just reading the CHat about VR is enough to put me off.

59 dollars is not a lot too me and I actually think that in the last week I have gotten my moneys worth of enjoyment out of this game and I haven't even done 1/3 of AD yet....the other factions I have not even touched yet.

I have been where Deltia is at with other MMO's and I completely understand how he feels. I am also not surprised to hear how some other hardcore EOS fans are not at all phased by the VR pushout more levels and CP system because let's face it these guys/gals play this game non stop. But I do feel that Deltia sees the bigger picture that in order for EOS to survive it needs a new influx of people constantly to replenish the ones that are leaving.

The #1 reason why It does not phase me to leave this game after reaching 50 is because I am going to treat this game just how ZOS developed it....as a single player game and when I am done with a single player game. I put it down. My #2 reason why it does not bother me to put this game down after I am done with it is because looking at the game and it's over all
I don't know what you call it in the business style/model .....when this game stops making money it's DONE and ZOS will cut their losses and I for one am not about to invest my time...family/time to something that just won't be around 2-3 years from now...once TES6 comes out it will be a ghost town...

The other thing that bothers me is yes...that picture that you guys have with the earth...and the lines that is exactly how I feel....way in the left corner....

Deltia I have watched almost all of your videos and subscribed long ago and really enjoy your tutorials but even your videos make me think that I am so far behind the curve as a new player....I am thinking it's not even worth it...

Just my perspective guys...again I am very new to the game.

k2blader

LukeArayo wrote: »

My point is as i stated ZOS isn't rushing their content therefore it takes longer to make.

Honestly I think they probably have fewer employees than Blizzard, possibly because they don't have the money for it, and maybe that's the crux of the problem. I dunno.

But when a very bad PvP-impacting bug is discovered that's easily fixable and nothing is done about it for 3 months and counting, that doesn't impress me that folks "up top" are managing things very well.

nimander99

TL;DR

The following is a stream of consciousness sorry for poor grammar etc.

anything new or fun-ly (made up word) repeatable content. Therein is the heart of the issue. We all love this game, many of us have been bouncing our heads against the nothing new wall for quite some time now and the Champ system although nice as a background progression is a terrible thing to focus solely on for several months.

If people where busy in game with many things to do all the time then they wouldn't be on forums discussing wanting vs not wanting progression. Progression can be very painful if there is nothing to progress with... why even bother progressing if you are already at end game anyways, it makes no sense, it's purely inflated content.

I hear people asking for in game holidays and events then in the same forum a bunch of people hop on to say no way not in this game... which is foolish at best. The point of events is to engage the community and offer a different sort of progression and chance to earn collectables and of all the mmo's out there Tamriel is actually best equipped to take advantage of a system like this.

To sum up, I believe the real issue here is we got a superb core game experience, absolutely superb, without meaningful repeatable or event driven content we will continue to see dissatisfaction in forums. I also fear that Imperial City is going to completely miss the mark in what the community needs as many will stay away because of the perceived pvp elements. The worse thing Zenimax could do right now would be to remove or curtail the Champ System, they have cast the dice, its time to hold to their vision and see where everything falls.

Ixtyr

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Ixtyr wrote: »

I don't believe I've commented in this thread yet - but I do want to voice my personal opinion on this entire matter, so I'll do so below.

TL;DR

There is none. Just read it. If you don't, well, that's your choice, and I fully respect that, as I know it's a long post. But I've been typing this for the past three hours after thinking about it for a full week (plus time spent before Eric's announcement on ESO Live), and this is about as clear and succinct (yes, succinct) as I can get about it.

First off WOW.

Just WOW.

Yes your post is long, but having read it all (twice to make sure I got everything) I agree there is no way for you to trim that for TL/DR.

In fact anyone who genuinely cares about the current state of the game SHOULD read it.

--

Thank you for the thought and time you put in to that post.

All The Best

Thank you! I'm glad a few people have been looking at it. Whenever you spend three hours writing something, it's nice to know it's at least somewhat appreciated.

Artheiron

we don't know what they'll offer. let's wait first. maybe they change the way of grinding equipments too.

Enraged_Tiki_Torch

k2blader wrote: »

But when a very bad PvP-impacting bug is discovered that's easily fixable and nothing is done about it for 3 months and counting, that doesn't impress me that folks "up top" are managing things very well.

I agree with you but if the BUG is easily fixable, they would have fixed it. I do some programming, mostly small applications and sometimes I dable around with Unity3D and I can tell you bugs are a PITA. What seems simple to the witness can actually be very complex in code. Sometimes it can be a bug with one element of the game but what is causing it is a completely different element(s) that you would think has no relation to it. I forget who at Quakecon answered this, but he was asked why it takes so long to fix bugs in the game. He responded with, "there are a lot of moving parts". That is a very accurate reply, especially for an MMO that has GigaBytes of code all working together.

This is typical for every program you run on your system. Even when Microsoft releases a new version of Windows its usually buggy. So even though it hurts my experience with the game, as long as Zenimax continues to look into the issue. I am not upset that it takes awhile to fix a BUG. I got some sympathy for them from my own experiences.

k2blader

Enraged_Tiki_Torch wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

But when a very bad PvP-impacting bug is discovered that's easily fixable and nothing is done about it for 3 months and counting, that doesn't impress me that folks "up top" are managing things very well.

I agree with you but if the BUG is easily fixable, they would have fixed it. I do some programming, mostly small applications and sometimes I dable around with Unity3D and I can tell you bugs are a PITA. What seems simple to the witness can actually be very complex in code. Sometimes it can be a bug with one element of the game but what is causing it is a completely different element(s) that you would think has no relation to it. I forget who at Quakecon answered this, but he was asked why it takes so long to fix bugs in the game. He responded with, "there are a lot of moving parts". That is a very accurate reply, especially for an MMO that has GigaBytes of code all working together.

This is typical for every program you run on your system. Even when Microsoft releases a new version of Windows its usually buggy. So even though it hurts my experience with the game, as long as Zenimax continues to look into the issue. I am not upset that it takes awhile to fix a BUG. I got some sympathy for them from my own experiences.

Hmm ok. You may have guessed I'm talking about nirn on armor. For a temporary fix, what could have been done is correct it to work like reinforced-- something that is already working fine (as far as I know). The nirn prob is a huge enough issue that it's important to fix ASAP-- I don't believe it should take 3 months to fix if it's a "copy" of code for reinforced.

When it comes down to it, the nirn bug should've been caught before release. I really don't think it's fair to expect the players with magicka builds hurt by it to say, "Oh that's OK, I know coding's tough, take your time fixing it."

Vizier

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Which game has the most players and most subscribers?

Now, please do tell me how the one with the lower number of players and subscribers is the "better designed" game.

I'd have loved for ZOS to have pulled off all the game innovations in ESO that they have tried for - but they haven't. In fact my sig sums up how "well" they have done.

Innovation and being different are great things; but only if they deliver at least as good a service as that which they are trying to be different from.

All The Best

There's pretty much always been a disconnect between the publishers, administrators and the developers in gaming. Rarely do developers even get to meet them somewhere in the middle. That's pretty much a given. It' s not difficult to figure out there have been some forced concessions made to the direction ESO took since launch.

That said the notion that WoW is a better game merely because of it's subscriber base is a Red Herring. There are a ton of factors involved in why they have a larger player base, to include time on the market. They cornered the market years ago. Subsequently WoW is like a fire that feeds on it'self. They've got their player base figured out, but are they really offering anything new. They are more like a city that was founded at the right place at the right time despite there being better locations in the region but because of the timing of their growth they overshadow the region for centuries.

TES innovated the Single player RPG and set the standard for a generation. They've made a good effort at marrying the MMO and SP RPG and from my perspective made a game that appeals to me far more than WoW ever could.

It stands to reason that if WoW clone was released within the last year it wouldn't magically become the behemoth of the industry again. And that's because they wouldn't be offering anything new. They way moving forward IMO isn't to offer a WoW experience but rather something new. I appreciate what they are trying to do even if it's not garnering the desired result. IMO where ESO failed is the ESO experience wasn't further removed from traditional MMO elements. They never should have gone down the road of having a design somewhat based on DAOC.

SLy_Kyti

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno ..if you are still reading this or lurking after so many pages, many repetitive...

To answer the problem of elite gear being made obsolete (which, granted in other games is replaced with new items to the game when levels are raised) that affects a lot of the long time core players...have you considered having an ability by ingame NPC clothier, blacksmiths and the like to upgrade your gear level? Perhaps the fence in the Outlaw refuges in game could do it? Or Mages could imbue it with the new level? Not the crafted sets, but the boss level loot, pvp gear and undaunted helms and the like?

Just a small thought....ok carry on the high math on CP & vet levels everybody....