The Day ESO Dies

silky_soft

SleepyTroll wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

They are making a campaign that removes CP's, problem solved for everyone! Now leave my unlimited PVE progression alone!

when did they say this?

A while ago. They also said it wasn't coming before or during IC. So guessing they will add it around next DLC. That campaign will most likely be BB though, only people that will care are the PvE players with 800+ CP *** everyone thinking they are a pvp god and the bads who refuse to play Vet.

nimander99

SleepyTroll wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

They are making a campaign that removes CP's, problem solved for everyone! Now leave my unlimited PVE progression alone!

when did they say this?

Sorry I cant quote a pm I had with /lurk but here it is cut and paste from my message log...

Hey /lurk if you are reading this and it's the weekend, take a break buddy... but if it's Monday then I have a simple question.

Why won't you just create a campaign that disables CP's? Instead of capping or changing major functions/systems of the game?

This seems the more elegant solution, as opposed to the collateral damage from really getting invasive.
ZOS_RichLambert
ZOS_RichLambert September 26
We are. Wheeler already announced that awhile ago.

SleepyTroll

nimander99 wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

They are making a campaign that removes CP's, problem solved for everyone! Now leave my unlimited PVE progression alone!

when did they say this?

Sorry I cant quote a pm I had with /lurk but here it is cut and paste from my message log...

Hey /lurk if you are reading this and it's the weekend, take a break buddy... but if it's Monday then I have a simple question.

Why won't you just create a campaign that disables CP's? Instead of capping or changing major functions/systems of the game?

This seems the more elegant solution, as opposed to the collateral damage from really getting invasive.
ZOS_RichLambert
ZOS_RichLambert September 26
We are. Wheeler already announced that awhile ago.

ok ok ok, that's some solid info... But why wouldn't they share that with the community? not saying I don't appreciate that you had that.

WalkingLegacy

Deltia wrote: »

Hello ESO Forums,

I posted this on my website but I know ZOS reads these forums so I figured I'd share my thoughts here. I'm one person the sea of awesome people that love this game. With the announcement of increase in Veteran Ranks I'd like to leave my feedback whether you agree or not. And here's what I have to say about the problem and fixing it.

Before I start I want to make clear where my opinions come from. I make my living playing THIS video game only. Not only that, but it's my primary means of socialization. Over the past two years (including beta), I've been infatuated with the idea of a multiplayer Elder Scrolls Game. Not to mention the help that ZOS has personally given me. I still love ESO, but I'm not going to blindly follow a games growth that does not fit my needs. Just realize the passion I have for this game, it's community and developers runs deep.

VR 16?

Within the same breath, Eric Wrobel said they still have long term plans of removing Veteran Ranks (VR), but for the new content they are increasing it by two thus making end game VR 16. At this point, I think it's clear that Veteran Ranks aren't going away, ANYTIME in the future. I have eight VR 14s and the problem I have with this isn't the time investment to re-level all those characters, or the fully legendary gear, but the constant deception about not adding more Veteran Ranks. We as customers have a right to voice or opinions and/or a right to stop being customers. For me, it's time to pick one and voicing seems to be the best option.

I have defended their decisions as a business model constantly but this is one I cannot ignore. Adding Veteran Ranks is not content, it's busy work. Content is intractable quest, dungeon diving finding worthwhile rewards with friends, a working PvP system giving flexibility and choices. Yes, I know Imperial City is coming with this additional Veteran Ranks, but why increase the cap? "Deltia to increase the contents difficulty," well that's true in most MMOs but not ESO and that's due to the Champion System.

Champion Progression

Most games have a level cap that once reached, one works on optimizing gear and your individual skill for increased performance. However, ESO has the Champion System rendering time in game collecting XP as account progression. So take the most skilled PvPer in the world (let's say Sypher) vs. someone with 1,000 more champion points. Skill is irreverent at this point. Thus removing one of the core reasons I play MMOs and video games alike. Busy work trumps constantly improving yourself. Grinding mobs and CP is the new meta, not skill.

Take another game for instance, you have fully maxed out gear and have been playing for four years. Once a level increase hits, most players will be on an even playing field in terms of gear. So, there is some possibility of catching up to those folks that spend eight hours a day in game. Not ESO, there is no Champion Point catch up mechanic. The person at level 10 might be more powerful than someone at VR14 due to CP. Without a catch up mechanic or a way to limit zombie grinding macros and bots, you'll have a runaway performance gap the size the Grand Canyon.
The Fix

Someone like me benefits significantly from the Champion System. Having alts, grinding mobs and skills, etc just makes me VERY powerful. But it does not help new players, inexperienced ones nor the overall game. My good friend Parfax had an excellent suggestion, simply have seasons for Champion Points. Meaning, every three months or so, you could gain 100 CP. Once you reach that number, you have to wait for the reset. No more 100 v 1,000 CP fights. If that doesn't work, why not make CP have diminishing returns? So the first 300 are very easy to obtain, but everything beyond that is harder (similar to Alliance Ranks).

I'm all for account wide progression, but at what cost? At the cost that people grinding zombies ultimately win? At the cost that skill and performance are removed out of the game? I want to one day challenge Sypher in PvP without out grinding him. With skill, learning, getting my face kicked in by him over and over just to beat him one day with pure skill. Until this changes, the easier way for me to beat him is out grind him. Obtain such a mathematical advantage that no amount of skill can compensate. And that is the day that ESO dies.

Why I Give a ****

No I do not plan on leaving the game. I still love the combat, the people and the developers. But I'm no longer a bushy eyed fan-boy. I don't want to leave this game, this is my absolute favorite thing to do (well besides you know what). I've have (not had) such an emotional attachment to the land of Tamriel that I won't let it go just yet. But I'm not going to sit back and let another level increase happen without a true fix to the underlying problem, the Champion System.

Great post and I have been saying the same thing about the Champion Point system. Here's to hoping someone above Wrobel sees the light and rids us of this system.

Ra'Shtar

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Deltia wrote: »

Hello ESO Forums,

I posted this on my website but I know ZOS reads these forums so I figured I'd share my thoughts here. I'm one person the sea of awesome people that love this game. With the announcement of increase in Veteran Ranks I'd like to leave my feedback whether you agree or not. And here's what I have to say about the problem and fixing it.

Before I start I want to make clear where my opinions come from. I make my living playing THIS video game only. Not only that, but it's my primary means of socialization. Over the past two years (including beta), I've been infatuated with the idea of a multiplayer Elder Scrolls Game. Not to mention the help that ZOS has personally given me. I still love ESO, but I'm not going to blindly follow a games growth that does not fit my needs. Just realize the passion I have for this game, it's community and developers runs deep.

VR 16?

Within the same breath, Eric Wrobel said they still have long term plans of removing Veteran Ranks (VR), but for the new content they are increasing it by two thus making end game VR 16. At this point, I think it's clear that Veteran Ranks aren't going away, ANYTIME in the future. I have eight VR 14s and the problem I have with this isn't the time investment to re-level all those characters, or the fully legendary gear, but the constant deception about not adding more Veteran Ranks. We as customers have a right to voice or opinions and/or a right to stop being customers. For me, it's time to pick one and voicing seems to be the best option.

I have defended their decisions as a business model constantly but this is one I cannot ignore. Adding Veteran Ranks is not content, it's busy work. Content is intractable quest, dungeon diving finding worthwhile rewards with friends, a working PvP system giving flexibility and choices. Yes, I know Imperial City is coming with this additional Veteran Ranks, but why increase the cap? "Deltia to increase the contents difficulty," well that's true in most MMOs but not ESO and that's due to the Champion System.

Champion Progression

Most games have a level cap that once reached, one works on optimizing gear and your individual skill for increased performance. However, ESO has the Champion System rendering time in game collecting XP as account progression. So take the most skilled PvPer in the world (let's say Sypher) vs. someone with 1,000 more champion points. Skill is irreverent at this point. Thus removing one of the core reasons I play MMOs and video games alike. Busy work trumps constantly improving yourself. Grinding mobs and CP is the new meta, not skill.

Take another game for instance, you have fully maxed out gear and have been playing for four years. Once a level increase hits, most players will be on an even playing field in terms of gear. So, there is some possibility of catching up to those folks that spend eight hours a day in game. Not ESO, there is no Champion Point catch up mechanic. The person at level 10 might be more powerful than someone at VR14 due to CP. Without a catch up mechanic or a way to limit zombie grinding macros and bots, you'll have a runaway performance gap the size the Grand Canyon.
The Fix

Someone like me benefits significantly from the Champion System. Having alts, grinding mobs and skills, etc just makes me VERY powerful. But it does not help new players, inexperienced ones nor the overall game. My good friend Parfax had an excellent suggestion, simply have seasons for Champion Points. Meaning, every three months or so, you could gain 100 CP. Once you reach that number, you have to wait for the reset. No more 100 v 1,000 CP fights. If that doesn't work, why not make CP have diminishing returns? So the first 300 are very easy to obtain, but everything beyond that is harder (similar to Alliance Ranks).

I'm all for account wide progression, but at what cost? At the cost that people grinding zombies ultimately win? At the cost that skill and performance are removed out of the game? I want to one day challenge Sypher in PvP without out grinding him. With skill, learning, getting my face kicked in by him over and over just to beat him one day with pure skill. Until this changes, the easier way for me to beat him is out grind him. Obtain such a mathematical advantage that no amount of skill can compensate. And that is the day that ESO dies.

Why I Give a ****

No I do not plan on leaving the game. I still love the combat, the people and the developers. But I'm no longer a bushy eyed fan-boy. I don't want to leave this game, this is my absolute favorite thing to do (well besides you know what). I've have (not had) such an emotional attachment to the land of Tamriel that I won't let it go just yet. But I'm not going to sit back and let another level increase happen without a true fix to the underlying problem, the Champion System.

Great post and I have been saying the same thing about the Champion Point system. Here's to hoping someone above Wrobel sees the light and rids us of this system.

This thread is quite old, still valid but old.

WalkingLegacy

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Deltia wrote: »

Hello ESO Forums,

I posted this on my website but I know ZOS reads these forums so I figured I'd share my thoughts here. I'm one person the sea of awesome people that love this game. With the announcement of increase in Veteran Ranks I'd like to leave my feedback whether you agree or not. And here's what I have to say about the problem and fixing it.

Before I start I want to make clear where my opinions come from. I make my living playing THIS video game only. Not only that, but it's my primary means of socialization. Over the past two years (including beta), I've been infatuated with the idea of a multiplayer Elder Scrolls Game. Not to mention the help that ZOS has personally given me. I still love ESO, but I'm not going to blindly follow a games growth that does not fit my needs. Just realize the passion I have for this game, it's community and developers runs deep.

VR 16?

Within the same breath, Eric Wrobel said they still have long term plans of removing Veteran Ranks (VR), but for the new content they are increasing it by two thus making end game VR 16. At this point, I think it's clear that Veteran Ranks aren't going away, ANYTIME in the future. I have eight VR 14s and the problem I have with this isn't the time investment to re-level all those characters, or the fully legendary gear, but the constant deception about not adding more Veteran Ranks. We as customers have a right to voice or opinions and/or a right to stop being customers. For me, it's time to pick one and voicing seems to be the best option.

I have defended their decisions as a business model constantly but this is one I cannot ignore. Adding Veteran Ranks is not content, it's busy work. Content is intractable quest, dungeon diving finding worthwhile rewards with friends, a working PvP system giving flexibility and choices. Yes, I know Imperial City is coming with this additional Veteran Ranks, but why increase the cap? "Deltia to increase the contents difficulty," well that's true in most MMOs but not ESO and that's due to the Champion System.

Champion Progression

Most games have a level cap that once reached, one works on optimizing gear and your individual skill for increased performance. However, ESO has the Champion System rendering time in game collecting XP as account progression. So take the most skilled PvPer in the world (let's say Sypher) vs. someone with 1,000 more champion points. Skill is irreverent at this point. Thus removing one of the core reasons I play MMOs and video games alike. Busy work trumps constantly improving yourself. Grinding mobs and CP is the new meta, not skill.

Take another game for instance, you have fully maxed out gear and have been playing for four years. Once a level increase hits, most players will be on an even playing field in terms of gear. So, there is some possibility of catching up to those folks that spend eight hours a day in game. Not ESO, there is no Champion Point catch up mechanic. The person at level 10 might be more powerful than someone at VR14 due to CP. Without a catch up mechanic or a way to limit zombie grinding macros and bots, you'll have a runaway performance gap the size the Grand Canyon.
The Fix

Someone like me benefits significantly from the Champion System. Having alts, grinding mobs and skills, etc just makes me VERY powerful. But it does not help new players, inexperienced ones nor the overall game. My good friend Parfax had an excellent suggestion, simply have seasons for Champion Points. Meaning, every three months or so, you could gain 100 CP. Once you reach that number, you have to wait for the reset. No more 100 v 1,000 CP fights. If that doesn't work, why not make CP have diminishing returns? So the first 300 are very easy to obtain, but everything beyond that is harder (similar to Alliance Ranks).

I'm all for account wide progression, but at what cost? At the cost that people grinding zombies ultimately win? At the cost that skill and performance are removed out of the game? I want to one day challenge Sypher in PvP without out grinding him. With skill, learning, getting my face kicked in by him over and over just to beat him one day with pure skill. Until this changes, the easier way for me to beat him is out grind him. Obtain such a mathematical advantage that no amount of skill can compensate. And that is the day that ESO dies.

Why I Give a ****

No I do not plan on leaving the game. I still love the combat, the people and the developers. But I'm no longer a bushy eyed fan-boy. I don't want to leave this game, this is my absolute favorite thing to do (well besides you know what). I've have (not had) such an emotional attachment to the land of Tamriel that I won't let it go just yet. But I'm not going to sit back and let another level increase happen without a true fix to the underlying problem, the Champion System.

Great post and I have been saying the same thing about the Champion Point system. Here's to hoping someone above Wrobel sees the light and rids us of this system.

This thread is quite old, still valid but old.

That doesn't change its importance

clayandaudrey_ESO

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Deltia wrote: »

Hello ESO Forums,

I posted this on my website but I know ZOS reads these forums so I figured I'd share my thoughts here. I'm one person the sea of awesome people that love this game. With the announcement of increase in Veteran Ranks I'd like to leave my feedback whether you agree or not. And here's what I have to say about the problem and fixing it.

Before I start I want to make clear where my opinions come from. I make my living playing THIS video game only. Not only that, but it's my primary means of socialization. Over the past two years (including beta), I've been infatuated with the idea of a multiplayer Elder Scrolls Game. Not to mention the help that ZOS has personally given me. I still love ESO, but I'm not going to blindly follow a games growth that does not fit my needs. Just realize the passion I have for this game, it's community and developers runs deep.

VR 16?

Within the same breath, Eric Wrobel said they still have long term plans of removing Veteran Ranks (VR), but for the new content they are increasing it by two thus making end game VR 16. At this point, I think it's clear that Veteran Ranks aren't going away, ANYTIME in the future. I have eight VR 14s and the problem I have with this isn't the time investment to re-level all those characters, or the fully legendary gear, but the constant deception about not adding more Veteran Ranks. We as customers have a right to voice or opinions and/or a right to stop being customers. For me, it's time to pick one and voicing seems to be the best option.

I have defended their decisions as a business model constantly but this is one I cannot ignore. Adding Veteran Ranks is not content, it's busy work. Content is intractable quest, dungeon diving finding worthwhile rewards with friends, a working PvP system giving flexibility and choices. Yes, I know Imperial City is coming with this additional Veteran Ranks, but why increase the cap? "Deltia to increase the contents difficulty," well that's true in most MMOs but not ESO and that's due to the Champion System.

Champion Progression

Most games have a level cap that once reached, one works on optimizing gear and your individual skill for increased performance. However, ESO has the Champion System rendering time in game collecting XP as account progression. So take the most skilled PvPer in the world (let's say Sypher) vs. someone with 1,000 more champion points. Skill is irreverent at this point. Thus removing one of the core reasons I play MMOs and video games alike. Busy work trumps constantly improving yourself. Grinding mobs and CP is the new meta, not skill.

Take another game for instance, you have fully maxed out gear and have been playing for four years. Once a level increase hits, most players will be on an even playing field in terms of gear. So, there is some possibility of catching up to those folks that spend eight hours a day in game. Not ESO, there is no Champion Point catch up mechanic. The person at level 10 might be more powerful than someone at VR14 due to CP. Without a catch up mechanic or a way to limit zombie grinding macros and bots, you'll have a runaway performance gap the size the Grand Canyon.
The Fix

Someone like me benefits significantly from the Champion System. Having alts, grinding mobs and skills, etc just makes me VERY powerful. But it does not help new players, inexperienced ones nor the overall game. My good friend Parfax had an excellent suggestion, simply have seasons for Champion Points. Meaning, every three months or so, you could gain 100 CP. Once you reach that number, you have to wait for the reset. No more 100 v 1,000 CP fights. If that doesn't work, why not make CP have diminishing returns? So the first 300 are very easy to obtain, but everything beyond that is harder (similar to Alliance Ranks).

I'm all for account wide progression, but at what cost? At the cost that people grinding zombies ultimately win? At the cost that skill and performance are removed out of the game? I want to one day challenge Sypher in PvP without out grinding him. With skill, learning, getting my face kicked in by him over and over just to beat him one day with pure skill. Until this changes, the easier way for me to beat him is out grind him. Obtain such a mathematical advantage that no amount of skill can compensate. And that is the day that ESO dies.

Why I Give a ****

No I do not plan on leaving the game. I still love the combat, the people and the developers. But I'm no longer a bushy eyed fan-boy. I don't want to leave this game, this is my absolute favorite thing to do (well besides you know what). I've have (not had) such an emotional attachment to the land of Tamriel that I won't let it go just yet. But I'm not going to sit back and let another level increase happen without a true fix to the underlying problem, the Champion System.

Great post and I have been saying the same thing about the Champion Point system. Here's to hoping someone above Wrobel sees the light and rids us of this system.

This thread is quite old, still valid but old.

That doesn't change its importance

Or the fact they will still ignore it.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Champion system and V16 level increase (and gear grab) was terrible for the game and game economy.

Toc de Malsvi

Yep, almost all the current class balance issues can be tied to champion point system.

Sausage

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Champion system and V16 level increase (and gear grab) was terrible for the game and game economy.

It kept this game alive too, without gear-grind or CP-progression players would have whined why there isnt nothing to do. Endgame progression is so tricky with such a low population, hopefully Zen figures out a way to make it without causing too much balance issues. Im not personally happy with CP-gear introduction, CP-gears and CP-system is gonna push it too far yet again, especially theres gear-upgrade system too.

Btw, before people start suggesting, why they dont do multiple Campaigns with different CP-tiers, on PS4 EU we dont have enough people for that, so thats why I hope Japaneses start to play on EU servers. Not to mention they could make Cyrodil stand-alone F2P game and no doubt add a few Campaign more, all they need to do is to put more money into Cyrodil and they can sell it as F2P stand-alone game.

WalkingLegacy

Sausage wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Champion system and V16 level increase (and gear grab) was terrible for the game and game economy.

It kept this game alive too, without gear-grind or CP-progression players would have whined why there isnt nothing to do. Endgame progression is so tricky with such a low population, hopefully Zen figures out a way to make it without causing too much balance issues. Im not personally happy with CP-gear introduction, CP-gears and CP-system is gonna push it too far yet again, especially theres gear-upgrade system too.

Btw, before people start suggesting, why they dont do multiple Campaigns with different CP-tiers, on PS4 EU we dont have enough people for that, so thats why I hope Japaneses start to play on EU servers. Not to mention they could make Cyrodil stand-alone F2P game and no doubt add a few Campaign more, all they need to do is to put more money into Cyrodil and they can sell it as F2P stand-alone game.

How did it keep the game alive? So many people aren't even near the CP cap let alone have a lot....most of the hardcore players near it would still be here without it.

CP system is not for an MMO. It's an imbalance nightmare. And when you see level 50 plus 200 champion points to equip gear, everyone is gonna be like wtf...

Sausage

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Champion system and V16 level increase (and gear grab) was terrible for the game and game economy.

It kept this game alive too, without gear-grind or CP-progression players would have whined why there isnt nothing to do. Endgame progression is so tricky with such a low population, hopefully Zen figures out a way to make it without causing too much balance issues. Im not personally happy with CP-gear introduction, CP-gears and CP-system is gonna push it too far yet again, especially theres gear-upgrade system too.

Btw, before people start suggesting, why they dont do multiple Campaigns with different CP-tiers, on PS4 EU we dont have enough people for that, so thats why I hope Japaneses start to play on EU servers. Not to mention they could make Cyrodil stand-alone F2P game and no doubt add a few Campaign more, all they need to do is to put more money into Cyrodil and they can sell it as F2P stand-alone game.

How did it keep the game alive? So many people aren't even near the CP cap let alone have a lot....most of the hardcore players near it would still be here without it.

CP system is not for an MMO. It's an imbalance nightmare. And when you see level 50 plus 200 champion points to equip gear, everyone is gonna be like wtf...

Trick question? Im still here and so are you. At least players havent whined theres nothing to do, trust me Ive seen those MMORPGs as well.

Also balanced PVP was never the plan, Zen does not have own balance team for example, I cant understand why you guys need to bang your head against this fact. Rift had balanced PVP, and its dead now. Balanced or imbalanced PVP doesnt matter for the success of the game.

Waffennacht

I hate it when the last thing to do in a game is get gear.

If I can complete the content (main part right there) to get the gear... then wtf is the point to the gear?! I already beat the content!!

As soon as content is done, the game is done for me. Removal of CP system (or anything that literally makes my character stronger ) removes my wish to play. If you removed CP and I at that point could beat every dungeon, then im out, I would see no reason to play. PvP by itself is not enough incentive for me to continue.

Edit: im the opposite of OP, I absolutely hate the idea some individual could catch up and beat me despite the year more i've invested into the game. I deserve my power, I earned it by grinding, I don't care your feelings hurt because you can't catch me, welcome to life.

nimander99

Waffennacht wrote: »

I hate it when the last thing to do in a game is get gear.

If I can complete the content (main part right there) to get the gear... then wtf is the point to the gear?! I already beat the content!!

As soon as content is done, the game is done for me. Removal of CP system (or anything that literally makes my character stronger ) removes my wish to play. If you removed CP and I at that point could beat every dungeon, then im out, I would see no reason to play. PvP by itself is not enough incentive for me to continue.

Edit: im the opposite of OP, I absolutely hate the idea some individual could catch up and beat me despite the year more i've invested into the game. I deserve my power, I earned it by grinding, I don't care your feelings hurt because you can't catch me, welcome to life.

Deltia took the longer view, his argument is valid when the system is intertwined with pvp. With the upcoming non CP Campaigns anyone who is bothered by the power gap of CP's can just go there... but I bet it's not the big hit some would think.

People like to faceroll, they don't like to be facerolled. And when they do get rolled their fav pastime is taking it to the forums to vent.

I agree with you though, I enjoy the CS on its merit. The unlimited progression is something I've desired in an mmo since the very inception of mmo's, and that it happens to occur in my favorite game world means that I am no less excited about this system today then I was when I watched them introduce it at the 2014 Quakecon.

clayandaudrey_ESO

Waffennacht wrote: »

I hate it when the last thing to do in a game is get gear.

If I can complete the content (main part right there) to get the gear... then wtf is the point to the gear?! I already beat the content!!

As soon as content is done, the game is done for me. Removal of CP system (or anything that literally makes my character stronger ) removes my wish to play. If you removed CP and I at that point could beat every dungeon, then im out, I would see no reason to play. PvP by itself is not enough incentive for me to continue.

Edit: im the opposite of OP, I absolutely hate the idea some individual could catch up and beat me despite the year more i've invested into the game. I deserve my power, I earned it by grinding, I don't care your feelings hurt because you can't catch me, welcome to life.

I have invested time since beta in this game and I don't care if your feelings are hurt that people can catch up. It is needed and if you don't like it then it is a you problem.

Edit : it's not life, it's a game. If you don't know that the outside is calling.

gw2only1b14_ESO

Sausage wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Champion system and V16 level increase (and gear grab) was terrible for the game and game economy.

It kept this game alive too, without gear-grind or CP-progression players would have whined why there isnt nothing to do. Endgame progression is so tricky with such a low population, hopefully Zen figures out a way to make it without causing too much balance issues. Im not personally happy with CP-gear introduction, CP-gears and CP-system is gonna push it too far yet again, especially theres gear-upgrade system too.

Btw, before people start suggesting, why they dont do multiple Campaigns with different CP-tiers, on PS4 EU we dont have enough people for that, so thats why I hope Japaneses start to play on EU servers. Not to mention they could make Cyrodil stand-alone F2P game and no doubt add a few Campaign more, all they need to do is to put more money into Cyrodil and they can sell it as F2P stand-alone game.

Well then you look was CP bad for PVE or bad for PVP or Both...Gear grind is in any game but yea pve and pvp cant have cake and eat it as well

nimander99

gw2only1b14_ESO wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Champion system and V16 level increase (and gear grab) was terrible for the game and game economy.

It kept this game alive too, without gear-grind or CP-progression players would have whined why there isnt nothing to do. Endgame progression is so tricky with such a low population, hopefully Zen figures out a way to make it without causing too much balance issues. Im not personally happy with CP-gear introduction, CP-gears and CP-system is gonna push it too far yet again, especially theres gear-upgrade system too.

Btw, before people start suggesting, why they dont do multiple Campaigns with different CP-tiers, on PS4 EU we dont have enough people for that, so thats why I hope Japaneses start to play on EU servers. Not to mention they could make Cyrodil stand-alone F2P game and no doubt add a few Campaign more, all they need to do is to put more money into Cyrodil and they can sell it as F2P stand-alone game.

Well then you look was CP bad for PVE or bad for PVP or Both...Gear grind is in any game but yea pve and pvp cant have cake and eat it as well

I'm enjoying my cake thank you very much

VoiDGhOs7

Yesterday's Eso Live could have been better with some more changes and by changes not nerfs but I guess there is time to improve as ESo is slowly dying.

On 3rd of March it will suffer a loss of players due to a new MMO coming on EU.
But thats another story...

actosh

Even without a new mmo, if wrobel continues to ravage like thisd in the game, matt should fire him and get back the konk1

That guys was awesome.

Waffennacht

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I hate it when the last thing to do in a game is get gear.

If I can complete the content (main part right there) to get the gear... then wtf is the point to the gear?! I already beat the content!!

As soon as content is done, the game is done for me. Removal of CP system (or anything that literally makes my character stronger ) removes my wish to play. If you removed CP and I at that point could beat every dungeon, then im out, I would see no reason to play. PvP by itself is not enough incentive for me to continue.

Edit: im the opposite of OP, I absolutely hate the idea some individual could catch up and beat me despite the year more i've invested into the game. I deserve my power, I earned it by grinding, I don't care your feelings hurt because you can't catch me, welcome to life.

I have invested time since beta in this game and I don't care if your feelings are hurt that people can catch up. It is needed and if you don't like it then it is a you problem.

Edit : it's not life, it's a game. If you don't know that the outside is calling.

It's a game that will lose players. You and minority can have it. My feelings wont be hurt, ill just quit like most long term players.

You go outside and leave the game to people who wanna play.

Edit: TESO has not been about PvP only and never should consider changes specifically aimed at PvP only

Bipolo

This thread might be old, but is just as relevant today /twoClaps

My words will not carry much weight since i haven't really played the last year+, i just want to leave a few thoughts after all this time.

still lurk on the forums now and then in hopes of spotting improvements to PvP

First off, I personally left the game due to CP.

Most of my guild (myself included) did give 1.6 a fair shot, but played less and less. Others did stick around until the release of Imperial City which turned out to be the nail in the coffin (except for a dedicated few)

In our prime, we (The Renegades) could field enough troops in Cyro to make a difference in any campaign we wished to play on. Today its inactive, guilds come and go, a natural thing in any MMO.

Yet...

The reason is ofc a mix of reasons, however the one i want to convey with this post is: we 'all' saw the coming unbalance with the CP system in Cyrodiil and very, very few PvP'ers i know liked it.

Its important to note that we are PvP oriented players. I can imagine others in ESO who enjoy PvE and have that as their main focus when they log on really enjoyed the implementation of the CP system, no doubt. Its after all "never ending progression".

But from a PvP guild's perspective all we ever had were a few proud 'carebears' of our own, lol, the rest of us had to force ourselves through PvE with the release of the Undaunted system for passives and in hopes of sets. So there is no real surprise that the thought of grinding CP was toxic to us...

Anyway, ESO is what it is today... /sigh

#PvPdreaming: If they reverted back to pre-1.6, polish and balance the game we had then, i bet many would return. Even with all its flaws it was still the best PvP this game ever had.

/NordDKtear

TL;DR:

- CP is toxic to PvPers who only want to acquire the gear/skills/abilities they need to be competitive.
- CP with its grinding and progression is unnecessary for dedicated PvPers, who's focus should be on RvR goals

Edit: quick fixes

clayandaudrey_ESO

Waffennacht wrote: »

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I hate it when the last thing to do in a game is get gear.

If I can complete the content (main part right there) to get the gear... then wtf is the point to the gear?! I already beat the content!!

As soon as content is done, the game is done for me. Removal of CP system (or anything that literally makes my character stronger ) removes my wish to play. If you removed CP and I at that point could beat every dungeon, then im out, I would see no reason to play. PvP by itself is not enough incentive for me to continue.

Edit: im the opposite of OP, I absolutely hate the idea some individual could catch up and beat me despite the year more i've invested into the game. I deserve my power, I earned it by grinding, I don't care your feelings hurt because you can't catch me, welcome to life.

I have invested time since beta in this game and I don't care if your feelings are hurt that people can catch up. It is needed and if you don't like it then it is a you problem.

Edit : it's not life, it's a game. If you don't know that the outside is calling.

It's a game that will lose players. You and minority can have it. My feelings wont be hurt, ill just quit like most long term players.

You go outside and leave the game to people who wanna play.

Edit: TESO has not been about PvP only and never should consider changes specifically aimed at PvP only

Myself and other long term players won't miss you. That is such a tired comment that game is dying. SWTOR has been dying 4 years, WoW 12, and the list goes on.

I do agree about the changes and pvp however.

LoreRiley

Deltia wrote: »

Hello ESO Forums,

I posted this on my website but I know ZOS reads these forums so I figured I'd share my thoughts here. I'm one person the sea of awesome people that love this game. With the announcement of increase in Veteran Ranks I'd like to leave my feedback whether you agree or not. And here's what I have to say about the problem and fixing it.

Before I start I want to make clear where my opinions come from. I make my living playing THIS video game only. Not only that, but it's my primary means of socialization. Over the past two years (including beta), I've been infatuated with the idea of a multiplayer Elder Scrolls Game. Not to mention the help that ZOS has personally given me. I still love ESO, but I'm not going to blindly follow a games growth that does not fit my needs. Just realize the passion I have for this game, it's community and developers runs deep.

VR 16?

Within the same breath, Eric Wrobel said they still have long term plans of removing Veteran Ranks (VR), but for the new content they are increasing it by two thus making end game VR 16. At this point, I think it's clear that Veteran Ranks aren't going away, ANYTIME in the future. I have eight VR 14s and the problem I have with this isn't the time investment to re-level all those characters, or the fully legendary gear, but the constant deception about not adding more Veteran Ranks. We as customers have a right to voice or opinions and/or a right to stop being customers. For me, it's time to pick one and voicing seems to be the best option.

I have defended their decisions as a business model constantly but this is one I cannot ignore. Adding Veteran Ranks is not content, it's busy work. Content is intractable quest, dungeon diving finding worthwhile rewards with friends, a working PvP system giving flexibility and choices. Yes, I know Imperial City is coming with this additional Veteran Ranks, but why increase the cap? "Deltia to increase the contents difficulty," well that's true in most MMOs but not ESO and that's due to the Champion System.

Champion Progression

Most games have a level cap that once reached, one works on optimizing gear and your individual skill for increased performance. However, ESO has the Champion System rendering time in game collecting XP as account progression. So take the most skilled PvPer in the world (let's say Sypher) vs. someone with 1,000 more champion points. Skill is irreverent at this point. Thus removing one of the core reasons I play MMOs and video games alike. Busy work trumps constantly improving yourself. Grinding mobs and CP is the new meta, not skill.

Take another game for instance, you have fully maxed out gear and have been playing for four years. Once a level increase hits, most players will be on an even playing field in terms of gear. So, there is some possibility of catching up to those folks that spend eight hours a day in game. Not ESO, there is no Champion Point catch up mechanic. The person at level 10 might be more powerful than someone at VR14 due to CP. Without a catch up mechanic or a way to limit zombie grinding macros and bots, you'll have a runaway performance gap the size the Grand Canyon.
The Fix

Someone like me benefits significantly from the Champion System. Having alts, grinding mobs and skills, etc just makes me VERY powerful. But it does not help new players, inexperienced ones nor the overall game. My good friend Parfax had an excellent suggestion, simply have seasons for Champion Points. Meaning, every three months or so, you could gain 100 CP. Once you reach that number, you have to wait for the reset. No more 100 v 1,000 CP fights. If that doesn't work, why not make CP have diminishing returns? So the first 300 are very easy to obtain, but everything beyond that is harder (similar to Alliance Ranks).

I'm all for account wide progression, but at what cost? At the cost that people grinding zombies ultimately win? At the cost that skill and performance are removed out of the game? I want to one day challenge Sypher in PvP without out grinding him. With skill, learning, getting my face kicked in by him over and over just to beat him one day with pure skill. Until this changes, the easier way for me to beat him is out grind him. Obtain such a mathematical advantage that no amount of skill can compensate. And that is the day that ESO dies.

Why I Give a ****

No I do not plan on leaving the game. I still love the combat, the people and the developers. But I'm no longer a bushy eyed fan-boy. I don't want to leave this game, this is my absolute favorite thing to do (well besides you know what). I've have (not had) such an emotional attachment to the land of Tamriel that I won't let it go just yet. But I'm not going to sit back and let another level increase happen without a true fix to the underlying problem, the Champion System.

This guy has more Insightfuls
Agrees and Awesome in this post alone then I have all together ;_;

WalkingLegacy

Has anyone of importance to this game ever come out and gave us any ideas or thoughts to scrapping the champion system?

Xellos77

LoreRiley wrote: »

Deltia wrote: »

Hello ESO Forums,

I posted this on my website but I know ZOS reads these forums so I figured I'd share my thoughts here. I'm one person the sea of awesome people that love this game. With the announcement of increase in Veteran Ranks I'd like to leave my feedback whether you agree or not. And here's what I have to say about the problem and fixing it.

Before I start I want to make clear where my opinions come from. I make my living playing THIS video game only. Not only that, but it's my primary means of socialization. Over the past two years (including beta), I've been infatuated with the idea of a multiplayer Elder Scrolls Game. Not to mention the help that ZOS has personally given me. I still love ESO, but I'm not going to blindly follow a games growth that does not fit my needs. Just realize the passion I have for this game, it's community and developers runs deep.

VR 16?

Within the same breath, Eric Wrobel said they still have long term plans of removing Veteran Ranks (VR), but for the new content they are increasing it by two thus making end game VR 16. At this point, I think it's clear that Veteran Ranks aren't going away, ANYTIME in the future. I have eight VR 14s and the problem I have with this isn't the time investment to re-level all those characters, or the fully legendary gear, but the constant deception about not adding more Veteran Ranks. We as customers have a right to voice or opinions and/or a right to stop being customers. For me, it's time to pick one and voicing seems to be the best option.

I have defended their decisions as a business model constantly but this is one I cannot ignore. Adding Veteran Ranks is not content, it's busy work. Content is intractable quest, dungeon diving finding worthwhile rewards with friends, a working PvP system giving flexibility and choices. Yes, I know Imperial City is coming with this additional Veteran Ranks, but why increase the cap? "Deltia to increase the contents difficulty," well that's true in most MMOs but not ESO and that's due to the Champion System.

Champion Progression

Most games have a level cap that once reached, one works on optimizing gear and your individual skill for increased performance. However, ESO has the Champion System rendering time in game collecting XP as account progression. So take the most skilled PvPer in the world (let's say Sypher) vs. someone with 1,000 more champion points. Skill is irreverent at this point. Thus removing one of the core reasons I play MMOs and video games alike. Busy work trumps constantly improving yourself. Grinding mobs and CP is the new meta, not skill.

Take another game for instance, you have fully maxed out gear and have been playing for four years. Once a level increase hits, most players will be on an even playing field in terms of gear. So, there is some possibility of catching up to those folks that spend eight hours a day in game. Not ESO, there is no Champion Point catch up mechanic. The person at level 10 might be more powerful than someone at VR14 due to CP. Without a catch up mechanic or a way to limit zombie grinding macros and bots, you'll have a runaway performance gap the size the Grand Canyon.
The Fix

Someone like me benefits significantly from the Champion System. Having alts, grinding mobs and skills, etc just makes me VERY powerful. But it does not help new players, inexperienced ones nor the overall game. My good friend Parfax had an excellent suggestion, simply have seasons for Champion Points. Meaning, every three months or so, you could gain 100 CP. Once you reach that number, you have to wait for the reset. No more 100 v 1,000 CP fights. If that doesn't work, why not make CP have diminishing returns? So the first 300 are very easy to obtain, but everything beyond that is harder (similar to Alliance Ranks).

I'm all for account wide progression, but at what cost? At the cost that people grinding zombies ultimately win? At the cost that skill and performance are removed out of the game? I want to one day challenge Sypher in PvP without out grinding him. With skill, learning, getting my face kicked in by him over and over just to beat him one day with pure skill. Until this changes, the easier way for me to beat him is out grind him. Obtain such a mathematical advantage that no amount of skill can compensate. And that is the day that ESO dies.

Why I Give a ****

No I do not plan on leaving the game. I still love the combat, the people and the developers. But I'm no longer a bushy eyed fan-boy. I don't want to leave this game, this is my absolute favorite thing to do (well besides you know what). I've have (not had) such an emotional attachment to the land of Tamriel that I won't let it go just yet. But I'm not going to sit back and let another level increase happen without a true fix to the underlying problem, the Champion System.

This guy has more Insightfuls
Agrees and Awesome in this post alone then I have all together ;_;

Two reasons for this.

1) Because many of us agree, think it is insightful and also reflect on how awesome it is.
2) It's Deltia.

FENGRUSH

The longer the champion system has played out the easier it is to see how this has screwed up a lot of things in the game. The effects are really the issue - since CP system wont be scrapped.. it should be reworked and overhauled. Giving passive increases to char strengths does not offer players new options or specialization in their characters necessarily. Its just a bar that raises your general strength and everyone is doing the same thing for every role. If youre not at the cap, youre just a weaker version than someone who is - and its very relevant.

Its so relevant, it has fundamentally changed how fights play out and altered balance entirely to the point we need serious class changes/rebalances. This is not the sort of progress we would like to see. This is just on top of things @Deltia said, which are also relevant and true as well. Oh well...

TalonKnight

VoiDGhOs7 wrote: »

Yesterday's Eso Live could have been better with some more changes and by changes not nerfs but I guess there is time to improve as ESo is slowly dying.

On 3rd of March it will suffer a loss of players due to a new MMO coming on EU.
But thats another story...

Its only going to lose players on the Pc/mac not the consoles, cause most console players dont have a pc/mac thats good enough to run an mmo, and after playin ESO on console, all i do on my pc now is watch utube, and type on these forums.

But yeah your right that, and this is another story.

TalonKnight

"It's Deltia."

I didnt even know about this guy till a few days ago his videos r pretty good.

nimander99

FENGRUSH wrote: »

The longer the champion system has played out the easier it is to see how this has screwed up a lot of things in the game. The effects are really the issue - since CP system wont be scrapped.. it should be reworked and overhauled. Giving passive increases to char strengths does not offer players new options or specialization in their characters necessarily. Its just a bar that raises your general strength and everyone is doing the same thing for every role. If youre not at the cap, youre just a weaker version than someone who is - and its very relevant.

Its so relevant, it has fundamentally changed how fights play out and altered balance entirely to the point we need serious class changes/rebalances. This is not the sort of progress we would like to see. This is just on top of things @Deltia said, which are also relevant and true as well. Oh well...

Agreed, that has been my only point of contention w/the CS, I had always assumed it would be a system of choices... tradeoffs if you would not just an unlimited power gap. I was surprised when we finally learned it would just be a straight up power grind.

Disabling CP's in pvp is the only solution. That leaving the unlimited character progression that guys like me enjoy without all the problems it introduces in pvp, like the lag