The Day ESO Dies

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Visemere wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Visemere wrote: »

All i know is, levelling VR's takes too long.

Personally i want to see VR xp increased substantially, im only VR3 after a week, and im spending 5-6 hrs sometimes in a session... it shouldnt take that long.

And no, im not buying XP potions for money...

i dont know what the answer is, but i dont enjoy Veteran Levels at all as it stands, i feel like its another barrier between me and PvP if i dont level now, and get CP and VR levels ill be blown apart by higher rank players.

i just want to enjoy all facets of the game.

@Visemere just to let you know, they ARE increasing XP for the veteran areas with the next major update. You can see the percentages here
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/190398/full-21th-eso-live-highlights/p1

for cadwells quests yes, but that increase doesnt ive heard apply to all quests in the zone?

The 20% increase in Craglorn really is worthless as well given that Craglorn suffered a 50% cut, and there's an XP reduction for being in a group.

All The Best

Ballzy321

I'm glad they did cp system. Next console mmo knows what not to do.

sadownik

elias.stormneb18_ESO wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

elias.stormneb18_ESO wrote: »

To battle proletariat, together we shall make revolution against the Grinders and create a free and democratic ESO republic!

I guess another USA citizen?

No I'm a Swede.

Ah my mistake then sorry, though you are one of "spoiled kids want everything for free, yada yada" crowd.

MissBizz

Visemere wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Visemere wrote: »

All i know is, levelling VR's takes too long.

Personally i want to see VR xp increased substantially, im only VR3 after a week, and im spending 5-6 hrs sometimes in a session... it shouldnt take that long.

And no, im not buying XP potions for money...

i dont know what the answer is, but i dont enjoy Veteran Levels at all as it stands, i feel like its another barrier between me and PvP if i dont level now, and get CP and VR levels ill be blown apart by higher rank players.

i just want to enjoy all facets of the game.

@Visemere just to let you know, they ARE increasing XP for the veteran areas with the next major update. You can see the percentages here
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/190398/full-21th-eso-live-highlights/p1

for cadwells quests yes, but that increase doesnt ive heard apply to all quests in the zone?

I was transcribing some of ESO live for someone to translate, so I did my best to use his exact words.. and this is what was said

"On top of that, all of the quest rewards for VR1-16 have been increased by 50%"

All quests.
@Visemere

[EDIT] I don't actually recall him saying anything specific about the Caldwell Quests. Oh, and remember, even though they are arring 2 more vet ranks, it will actually take slightly less experience to go from 1-16 than It did to go 1-14.. if you add that in with inxreased XP, it should be quicker.

Visemere

MissBizz wrote: »

Visemere wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Visemere wrote: »

All i know is, levelling VR's takes too long.

Personally i want to see VR xp increased substantially, im only VR3 after a week, and im spending 5-6 hrs sometimes in a session... it shouldnt take that long.

And no, im not buying XP potions for money...

i dont know what the answer is, but i dont enjoy Veteran Levels at all as it stands, i feel like its another barrier between me and PvP if i dont level now, and get CP and VR levels ill be blown apart by higher rank players.

i just want to enjoy all facets of the game.

@Visemere just to let you know, they ARE increasing XP for the veteran areas with the next major update. You can see the percentages here
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/190398/full-21th-eso-live-highlights/p1

for cadwells quests yes, but that increase doesnt ive heard apply to all quests in the zone?

I was transcribing some of ESO live for someone to translate, so I did my best to use his exact words.. and this is what was said

"On top of that, all of the quest rewards for VR1-16 have been increased by 50%"

All quests.
@Visemere

[EDIT] I don't actually recall him saying anything specific about the Caldwell Quests.

thats good news if true then.

i really wish they would clarify.

Bodybuilder

LISTEN TO YOUR COMUNITY ZOS

Tolmos

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone, just a heads up that we are internally discussing your concerns (we've been reading them) -- we posted this in another thread, but it's worth repeating.

We're currently looking into ways we can help those new to the Champion System catch up a bit, and also decrease the gap between those who are just starting out and those who have accumulated a ton of points. Once we have a plan scoped out a bit more, we will be sharing it and looking to get everyone's thoughts.

One thing I am curious on... do you know why they decided to dump all 3000 CP into the game at once, instead of incremental increases? With 3,000 at once, it makes the problem feel a bit more exacerbated since grinders/botters can get to the top of the system really quickly, whereas if the system was rolled out like level cap increases (300 now, 300 in a couple more months, etc etc) it would have made the system feel more like a level cap increase without hurting players who crafted fancy new gear, and would also allow people who don't grind/bot religiously to catch up to the grinders/botters within each increment.

I would think someone would have suggested it while the system was being thought up, so I'm curious what the reasoning was behind not doing it that way.

MikeB

Been playing the game for a little over 2 weeks. Didn't even know the champion system existed prior to reading this read. After looking it up and reading articles and guides on the champion system, I dont see how you didnt know this was broken before you released it. This system, to me, along with the cash shop xp potions screams cash grab. I am very unhappy with this system and will not spend another dollar on this game until a working, fair, system is put in place. The current state of the game once you hit veteran ranks, based on everything I've read, is completely broken and unfair to say the least. Talents that effect daedra and undead (undaunted) should not affect player characters. Vampires get shafted in PvP and there is no equal ability/skill versus werewolves.

TheBull

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone, just a heads up that we are internally discussing your concerns (we've been reading them) -- we posted this in another thread, but it's worth repeating.

We're currently looking into ways we can help those new to the Champion System catch up a bit, and also decrease the gap between those who are just starting out and those who have accumulated a ton of points. Once we have a plan scoped out a bit more, we will be sharing it and looking to get everyone's thoughts.

Jessica do you think you could maybe tell us the percent of players over 300 champ points? I think it may put a lot of concerns to rest.

I'm willing to bet that less than 5% of the player base has more than 300 CPs.

edit- double quote

BuggeX

TheBull wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone, just a heads up that we are internally discussing your concerns (we've been reading them) -- we posted this in another thread, but it's worth repeating.

We're currently looking into ways we can help those new to the Champion System catch up a bit, and also decrease the gap between those who are just starting out and those who have accumulated a ton of points. Once we have a plan scoped out a bit more, we will be sharing it and looking to get everyone's thoughts.

Jessica do you think you could maybe tell us the percent of players over 300 champ points? I think it may put a lot of concerns to rest.

I'm willing to bet that less than 5% of the player base has more than 300 CPs.

edit- double quote

It will be around 30-40% of the active playerbase

Erlex

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone, just a heads up that we are internally discussing your concerns (we've been reading them) -- we posted this in another thread, but it's worth repeating.

We're currently looking into ways we can help those new to the Champion System catch up a bit, and also decrease the gap between those who are just starting out and those who have accumulated a ton of points. Once we have a plan scoped out a bit more, we will be sharing it and looking to get everyone's thoughts.

Catching people up is great and all, but the fact that the champion system is nearly 100% effectiveness in all regards is the root of the problem. It's too powerful. Its like having another 50 veteran ranks to grind up.

Sithisvoid

Only a complete egomanic would think ESO is dying because he's being outgrinded. Plus what kind of post title is that? Would someone who truly loves ESO write something like that? It's sensationalism at it's best. All it does is hurt the franchise and serve to give a youtuber's little fit the attention he wants. Think about all the potential new players coming to the forums to read up and they see this. I know it happens because i came here long before i was allowed to post or ever had the game, to read and see what players said. Now you see Deltia saying this and all it does is serve to hurt the game by turning players off

MissBizz

Visemere wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Visemere wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Visemere wrote: »

All i know is, levelling VR's takes too long.

Personally i want to see VR xp increased substantially, im only VR3 after a week, and im spending 5-6 hrs sometimes in a session... it shouldnt take that long.

And no, im not buying XP potions for money...

i dont know what the answer is, but i dont enjoy Veteran Levels at all as it stands, i feel like its another barrier between me and PvP if i dont level now, and get CP and VR levels ill be blown apart by higher rank players.

i just want to enjoy all facets of the game.

@Visemere just to let you know, they ARE increasing XP for the veteran areas with the next major update. You can see the percentages here
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/190398/full-21th-eso-live-highlights/p1

for cadwells quests yes, but that increase doesnt ive heard apply to all quests in the zone?

I was transcribing some of ESO live for someone to translate, so I did my best to use his exact words.. and this is what was said

"On top of that, all of the quest rewards for VR1-16 have been increased by 50%"

All quests.
@Visemere

[EDIT] I don't actually recall him saying anything specific about the Caldwell Quests.

thats good news if true then.

i really wish they would clarify.

@Visemere Of course, without specific clarifications - I could be wrong as well, for all we know maybe they did only MEAN Caldwell quests.. although I watched live and listened again (stopping and replaying to transcribe) and I'm positive they said all. As well, I don't recall them ever even mentioning Caldwell Quests. As far as I can tell with what has been said, it should be all. Cross your fingers and I will too (Oh, and have fun during vet levels, you don't need to be at the top for EVERYTHING )

SantieClaws

The issue seems to me, at the core, to boil down to lack of new content.

They need to keep players in the game doing something. With no new zones and little expansion in crafting then grinding for something (anything) keeps people logging in. CP points are there for that reason and that reason only really. If you cap them then you restrict that 'content'. Instead of gradual character progression through new zones and new quests what you are now getting is a desperate grindfest for the 'top'.

Visemere

For those who argue levels are needed to new content, i firmly point you at Dark Age Of Camelot.

Been level 50 since the start, still level 50 now.

still making new expansions, new content, new gear, new classes, still level 50.

Master Levels allowed players to progress gear without changing level.

new weapons had to be powered up first (time sink and progression) before they became their full potential.

there is a lot ZOS can learn from what Mythic and now Broadsword are doing.

Sallington

wenxue2222b16_ESO wrote: »

The issue seems to me, at the core, to boil down to lack of new content.

They need to keep players in the game doing something. With no new zones and little expansion in crafting then grinding for something (anything) keeps people logging in. CP points are there for that reason and that reason only really. If you cap them then you restrict that 'content'. Instead of gradual character progression through new zones and new quests what you are now getting is a desperate grindfest for the 'top'.

This is EXACTLY why I stopped playing. The progression in ESO right now is not what I enjoy. I enjoy a more "gear-centric" progression where you need to complete/master certain content before you can complete other, harder content effectively. In my opinion, this is exactly what made WoW such a popular and long lasting game.

I think part of the problem is that in ESO, they are basically handing out epic gear for free. You can have pretty much the best gear within a week, and then what? You just grind for CPs. We should be in mostly greens and blues for a while after hitting the level cap while we gear up slowly, getting better both in gear and skill as we complete progressively harder content.

Maybe that's just too much of an "old school" train of thought though.

Robbmrp

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone, just a heads up that we are internally discussing your concerns (we've been reading them) -- we posted this in another thread, but it's worth repeating.

We're currently looking into ways we can help those new to the Champion System catch up a bit, and also decrease the gap between those who are just starting out and those who have accumulated a ton of points. Once we have a plan scoped out a bit more, we will be sharing it and looking to get everyone's thoughts.

That's great to hear!

Rosveen

MikeB wrote: »

Talents that effect daedra and undead (undaunted) should not affect player characters. Vampires get shafted in PvP and there is no equal ability/skill versus werewolves.

This part isn't true. There's a passive in the Fighters Guild line (not Undaunted) making all skills affecting daedra and undead affect werewolves too. There's still the issue of werewolves staying in human form to reap stamina regen benefits without any drawbacks, but when they transform, they're vulnerable.

technohic

BuggeX wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone, just a heads up that we are internally discussing your concerns (we've been reading them) -- we posted this in another thread, but it's worth repeating.

We're currently looking into ways we can help those new to the Champion System catch up a bit, and also decrease the gap between those who are just starting out and those who have accumulated a ton of points. Once we have a plan scoped out a bit more, we will be sharing it and looking to get everyone's thoughts.

Jessica do you think you could maybe tell us the percent of players over 300 champ points? I think it may put a lot of concerns to rest.

I'm willing to bet that less than 5% of the player base has more than 300 CPs.

edit- double quote

It will be around 30-40% of the active playerbase

The key here is how you define "active." Logged in today? This week? This month? Did anything worth noting?

Attorneyatlawl

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone, just a heads up that we are internally discussing your concerns (we've been reading them) -- we posted this in another thread, but it's worth repeating.

We're currently looking into ways we can help those new to the Champion System catch up a bit, and also decrease the gap between those who are just starting out and those who have accumulated a ton of points. Once we have a plan scoped out a bit more, we will be sharing it and looking to get everyone's thoughts.

I assume this also includes non negative opinions and concerns about potential changes in other threads (such s http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/192423/lets-be-frank-about-roleplaying-games-keeping-up-with-the-joneses-and-exploits/p1), but it never hurts to ask and be sure ??

LrdRahvin

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone, just a heads up that we are internally discussing your concerns (we've been reading them) -- we posted this in another thread, but it's worth repeating.

We're currently looking into ways we can help those new to the Champion System catch up a bit, and also decrease the gap between those who are just starting out and those who have accumulated a ton of points. Once we have a plan scoped out a bit more, we will be sharing it and looking to get everyone's thoughts.

With all due respect helping those new to the CS catch up is not a solution.

Its just kicking the can down the road.

There is a fundamental problem with the CS that applying a "catch up" band-aid does nothing to address.

CP seasons and a CP Passive Skill Bar are, IMO, the two best solutions so far mooted.

Combined they could be the permanent fix that CS needs.

All The Best

Yes, but kicking the can down the road is the quick easy path.

ESO DEVS are pro can kickers.

nimander99

The fact is not a single person can point to a single fight they have had in cyrodiil and say "that person for sure killed me because he had more than 300 cp's"

Everyone's hoping on the issue of the moment, ZoS is paying attention, they are gonna knee jerk gut this great system, and we are all gonna be left with a flat game.

This is a non-issue people.

Wolfaen

Good post Deltia. I stand behind everything you stated in your OP. Lets hope they follow through on listening to the community.

Attorneyatlawl

Armitas wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Glad to see this thread is still going strong, skimmed through some pages. Going to have to agree with some statements made, particularly @Attorneyatlawl, I too would like to see some quantified data of the mathematical discrepancies and the gap in the algorithms before any hard decision is made!

I think the answer is in the math; while ESO's storytelling is exquisite my mathematical and scientific inquiries do lead me to wonder exactly "how things work" opposed to "how things are supposed to work"

I think that would shed a lot of light on people who are like myself, mathematically inclined to crunch some numbers to provide proper feedback.

The truth will not make any significant difference if it is that difficult to obtain. Individual perception is what will make the difference. You can't chase down every poster, or every player with the figures to give them the truth. People will go with their own perception unless shown otherwise, and the majority of the people cannot be reached that they may be shown.

If the notion is true that the CP power gap is not that significant then it will have to change it's appearance to change peoples perception. The appearance of the champion system reaches everyone, the detailed truth of it will only reach a few.

...thinking back, It is unfortunate that they inflated our stats to make the CP points appear more significant, as that is a major portion of the perception real or imaginary.

This is true. Pre 1.6, one of the stated goals of scaling the stats up was for readability and so that people not paying much attention would feel as though they were gaining significantly. "Man, I only got ten points?!" was a common complaint. Now you get the same in the new system, but it's called "110 points!" which looks cooler and feels more substantial even though it behaves identically. Prominent players, just as political leaders in real life do, have a responsibility to not stoke the flames of factual inaccuracies and misconceptions.

It's disappointing to see some not rising above that to rationally discuss the issues, and instead resorting to emotional appeals about destruction and game deaths, or the seemingly cliché at this point "if this isn't changed I quit, I don't care about the truth" posts springing up. Add in frequent and unrealistic comparisons of players with 0 or 50 champion points to exploiters with 800-1000+ (it's a pretty illusion, but virtually everyone, if not literally everyone, sporting that number right now, botted a handful of known bugged areas, including some worse than the infamous "crab grind" that I have heard some had the gall to flaunt on their streams live, while sleeping), and the fires roar.

BuggeX

technohic wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone, just a heads up that we are internally discussing your concerns (we've been reading them) -- we posted this in another thread, but it's worth repeating.

We're currently looking into ways we can help those new to the Champion System catch up a bit, and also decrease the gap between those who are just starting out and those who have accumulated a ton of points. Once we have a plan scoped out a bit more, we will be sharing it and looking to get everyone's thoughts.

Jessica do you think you could maybe tell us the percent of players over 300 champ points? I think it may put a lot of concerns to rest.

I'm willing to bet that less than 5% of the player base has more than 300 CPs.

edit- double quote

It will be around 30-40% of the active playerbase

The key here is how you define "active." Logged in today? This week? This month? Did anything worth noting?

active is for me someone who actually do somthing ingame, not just Login, do dayli writs and feed his horse.

Sallington wrote: »

wenxue2222b16_ESO wrote: »

The issue seems to me, at the core, to boil down to lack of new content.

They need to keep players in the game doing something. With no new zones and little expansion in crafting then grinding for something (anything) keeps people logging in. CP points are there for that reason and that reason only really. If you cap them then you restrict that 'content'. Instead of gradual character progression through new zones and new quests what you are now getting is a desperate grindfest for the 'top'.

This is EXACTLY why I stopped playing. The progression in ESO right now is not what I enjoy. I enjoy a more "gear-centric" progression where you need to complete/master certain content before you can complete other, harder content effectively. In my opinion, this is exactly what made WoW such a popular and long lasting game.

I think part of the problem is that in ESO, they are basically handing out epic gear for free. You can have pretty much the best gear within a week, and then what? You just grind for CPs. We should be in mostly greens and blues for a while after hitting the level cap while we gear up slowly, getting better both in gear and skill as we complete progressively harder content.

Maybe that's just too much of an "old school" train of thought though.

This is wath i hated the most about wow, item lvl... oh how i can remember the groupleader, no itemlvl x no Group.
Grinding over and over aigan the same dungeon to achive item lvl y to grind the next one.
I like the current System in tesotu.
just a few fixes and Balance.
Catch up mechanic for Cps and ist perfect.

Attorneyatlawl

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Visemere wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Visemere wrote: »

All i know is, levelling VR's takes too long.

Personally i want to see VR xp increased substantially, im only VR3 after a week, and im spending 5-6 hrs sometimes in a session... it shouldnt take that long.

And no, im not buying XP potions for money...

i dont know what the answer is, but i dont enjoy Veteran Levels at all as it stands, i feel like its another barrier between me and PvP if i dont level now, and get CP and VR levels ill be blown apart by higher rank players.

i just want to enjoy all facets of the game.

@Visemere just to let you know, they ARE increasing XP for the veteran areas with the next major update. You can see the percentages here
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/190398/full-21th-eso-live-highlights/p1

for cadwells quests yes, but that increase doesnt ive heard apply to all quests in the zone?

The 20% increase in Craglorn really is worthless as well given that Craglorn suffered a 50% cut, and there's an XP reduction for being in a group.

All The Best

That's missing the forest for the trees. Public dungeons are being doubled, alongside that. Craglorn has sixteen, if I recall, group delves that are instanced. Those are technically pub dungeons and presumably will be doubled, restoring their former numbers, and then being increased by 20%. And you gain a 5% automatic XP bonus for being in a duo. It's if you aren't capable enough to do the killing with two, that you begin to be penalized, getting about 1/3 less XP for adding a third player, and even less for a fourth . And @visemere, the XP potions are available in game inexpensively for gold. You don't ever have to spend a dime on them, and I don't plan to. I've been steadily increasing my stockpile just playing normally and not taking any real negative from doing so, due to how affordable they are.

Attorneyatlawl

nimander99 wrote: »

The fact is not a single person can point to a single fight they have had in cyrodiil and say "that person for sure killed me because he had more than 300 cp's"

Everyone's hoping on the issue of the moment, ZoS is paying attention, they are gonna knee jerk gut this great system, and we are all gonna be left with a flat game.

This is a non-issue people.

Aw man, that ganker's sneak attack combo hit me for 21.5 thousand health instead of 20 thousand... I totally had that otherwise!
-Some guy with 18000 health.

Cyrodiil isn't a one versus one arena . That's an extreme example to drive home the point, since in a group situation of even two or three per side or so, that becomes even less of a factor.

Bromburak

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone, just a heads up that we are internally discussing your concerns (we've been reading them) -- we posted this in another thread, but it's worth repeating.

We're currently looking into ways we can help those new to the Champion System catch up a bit, and also decrease the gap between those who are just starting out and those who have accumulated a ton of points. Once we have a plan scoped out a bit more, we will be sharing it and looking to get everyone's thoughts.

Thank you.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom One thing is for sure, with such posts your colleages never catch up with your Awesome counter.

Kupoking

Well im glad to read that ZoS is reading us.and discussing solutions.

Cant wait to see their solution.

Burnemdown

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

The fact is not a single person can point to a single fight they have had in cyrodiil and say "that person for sure killed me because he had more than 300 cp's"

Everyone's hoping on the issue of the moment, ZoS is paying attention, they are gonna knee jerk gut this great system, and we are all gonna be left with a flat game.

This is a non-issue people.

Aw man, that ganker's sneak attack combo hit me for 21.5 thousand health instead of 20 thousand... I totally had that otherwise!
-Some guy with 18000 health.

Cyrodiil isn't a one versus one arena . That's an extreme example to drive home the point, since in a group situation of even two or three per side or so, that becomes even less of a factor.

Keep on humping that leg,ALAWL. Maybe you will get your way.

What I heard in the live stream was, these are just a few of the changes coming. I will reserve my judgments until then.