The Day ESO Dies

wafcatb14_ESO

who cares really the game is free to play now , i`m just goofing off here not buying any of their Crown store stuff or any DLC they put out while I wait on Camelot unchained or Land of Britan to release.

I gave up on this game a year ago same as the other 1k of my guildes that left after their subs were up.

Sposati

I agree with OP - Champion point system currently rewards grinding and xp potion use (not skills/playing abilities)... creating un-crossable chasms for new and casual players, which dis-incents them to play....

Time is an enemy as these chasms deepen/widen with the ticks of the clock.... and the current checks/balances in the system are insufficient either in fact or appearance, as evidenced by the number of people expressing concerns.

Unless and until ZOS implements reasonable upper limits on CP attainment and gap-closers, the financial well-being of the game is at risk... Ideally, a fix would also include something that rewards and incents legacy and new players based on game skills, and maybe compensates high-balance champion point accounts in some way.

Players who leave take their wallets with them. PC and console players can/will simply play another game title if they decide ESOTU has become a game for legacy grinders (aka hard-core, pre-existing players who have invested their game resources to max champion points). Atm, it appears that the champion system incents legacy grinders, sorry to say.

I love this game and want it to succeed in the marketplace. I sincerely hope ZOS recognizes the mortal flaw in the current Champion System.... a quick fix is needed. Otherwise I fear that as discouraged casual and new players decide to invest their game monies and time in other games, ESOTU would fade into oblivion.... and high-champion point accounts would become meaningless, as would every account.

My kudos to Deltia for the courage to post in this forum (+ thanks to him for all the great mentoring in videos, website, twitch streams, etc.. My characters play much better using his tips/suggestions, and I like that, lol).

Erwen

NotSo wrote: »

Once 1/2 of the player base has grinded up to 3600 cp, then they might nerf it.

I told this the day they said they will remove former emp passives, for ZOS, its only the easy way, they never work to get things right... and now v16... WHAT A JOKE, this will only take us MORE time, and for ZOS, more money... i had hope for this game, when i saw Nick and Paul Sage talking about it, they wanted to make a good game... and now the game is a ***, 2 vet leves are content, making it easier because crying babies cant play pvp to get their buffs... this is just a *** BUSINISS! they want our money and they will never go to a HARD game for dedicated players... they are making a EASY game for casual players because thats where the money is.

the end is near boys!

(and btw nick and paul are gone, and probably cuz the game was a initial failure in a money point of view... and even on that time i had hope)

markt84

wafcatb14_ESO wrote: »

who cares really the game is free to play now , i`m just goofing off here not buying any of their Crown store stuff or any DLC they put out while I wait on Camelot unchained or Land of Britan to release.

I gave up on this game a year ago same as the other 1k of my guildes that left after their subs were up.

So why are you still on the forums? Ur done with game, but you hang around the forum to tell everyone how you're done with game....makes perfect sense

k2blader

Victus wrote: »

Not that I've read the entire 27 page thread at this point, but I feel there needs to be made a distinction between a common misconception:

Getting rid of veteran levels and adding additional veteran levels are two separate things.

Because they have said the plan is to get rid of Vet levels, doesn't mean that adding two more indicates they have gone back on their word. The plan still might be to get rid of them, but just because they have decided to add a couple more doesn't mean this plan is no longer in play.

Are you a solicitor? -_-

Hiero_Glyph

Vizier wrote: »

The playing field is even. Each person can quest or grind or whatever they want. That some are faster at leveling isn't my concern. Shouldn't be yours either. Just do better if your bitter about it.

Consoles and PC transfers completely nullify your point. Every console player has 0 CP available. Most PC transfers (copies really) are vr14 with at least a couple hundred CP. That gap will take months if not a year or more to overcome and every console player is playing within the release window. The playing field is incredibly lopsided and is exactly the same for any new PC player.

Bromburak

wafcatb14_ESO wrote: »

who cares really the game is free to play now , i`m just goofing off here not buying any of their Crown store stuff or any DLC they put out while I wait on Camelot unchained or Land of Britan to release.

I gave up on this game a year ago same as the other 1k of my guildes that left after their subs were up.

Every game survived hoppers and for communities its a relief and enrichment when your kind is gone. Thank you.

RazzPitazz

markt84 wrote: »

wafcatb14_ESO wrote: »

who cares really the game is free to play now , i`m just goofing off here not buying any of their Crown store stuff or any DLC they put out while I wait on Camelot unchained or Land of Britan to release.

I gave up on this game a year ago same as the other 1k of my guildes that left after their subs were up.

So why are you still on the forums? Ur done with game, but you hang around the forum to tell everyone how you're done with game....makes perfect sense

You took the troll bait........

Dru1076

Somewhat relieving to see this still being debating. I too have abandoned the hopelessness of competing against more time rich players for greener pastures. It was a hard choice, but since realising how much I was disadvantaged by being unable to put enough time in, playing ESO became a chore, and a hopelessly depressing one. Especially considering the players I am already disadvantaged against get far easier and faster access to free XP pots. I will never understand why Zos can't do something in PvP to make the game enjoyable for people with jobs and families.

When I can play against people of a similar level where I can put my character against a character within a hundred or so champion points of mine, rather than against players with three times my champion rank (I was a V10 with 75 or so cp when I left...and it took 7 months to do that) I will be very happy about coming back to Tamriel. Until then, or until Zos add new PVE content NOT located in new PVP zones, I can't see any reason to return. There's no future for someone like me here right now, but I seriously want there to be.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

wafcatb14_ESO wrote: »

who cares really the game is free to play now , i`m just goofing off here not buying any of their Crown store stuff or any DLC they put out while I wait on Camelot unchained or Land of Britan to release.

I gave up on this game a year ago same as the other 1k of my guildes that left after their subs were up.

Indeed. And I was looking at CU for quite some time, but when they started releasing videos, shows the graphics are from 2001. Same gfx the damn DAOC has.
And when you see the races, it completely ridiculous. At least TESO did something right.
Good graphics, and good looking characters, irrespectively if they are Elves or Orcs.

elias.stormneb18_ESO

To battle proletariat, together we shall make revolution against the Grinders and create a free and democratic ESO republic!

sadownik

elias.stormneb18_ESO wrote: »

To battle proletariat, together we shall make revolution against the Grinders and create a free and democratic ESO republic!

I guess another USA citizen?

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Hey everyone, just a heads up that we are internally discussing your concerns (we've been reading them) -- we posted this in another thread, but it's worth repeating.

We're currently looking into ways we can help those new to the Champion System catch up a bit, and also decrease the gap between those who are just starting out and those who have accumulated a ton of points. Once we have a plan scoped out a bit more, we will be sharing it and looking to get everyone's thoughts.

Deltia

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone, just a heads up that we are internally discussing your concerns (we've been reading them) -- we posted this in another thread, but it's worth repeating.

We're currently looking into ways we can help those new to the Champion System catch up a bit, and also decrease the gap between those who are just starting out and those who have accumulated a ton of points. Once we have a plan scoped out a bit more, we will be sharing it and looking to get everyone's thoughts.

Absolutely fantastic. Thanks for responding and reading. I know how hard you guys/gals work on this game and we as a community appreciate your response.

P3ZZL3

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom As @Deltia said Jessica, good to hear.

Will the company be considering 3-4 options and speaking to the community about it before implementation of any particular option?

Gandrhulf_Harbard

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone, just a heads up that we are internally discussing your concerns (we've been reading them) -- we posted this in another thread, but it's worth repeating.

We're currently looking into ways we can help those new to the Champion System catch up a bit, and also decrease the gap between those who are just starting out and those who have accumulated a ton of points. Once we have a plan scoped out a bit more, we will be sharing it and looking to get everyone's thoughts.

With all due respect helping those new to the CS catch up is not a solution.

Its just kicking the can down the road.

There is a fundamental problem with the CS that applying a "catch up" band-aid does nothing to address.

CP seasons and a CP Passive Skill Bar are, IMO, the two best solutions so far mooted.

Combined they could be the permanent fix that CS needs.

All The Best

Armitas

Respectfully.

The concern over catching up is not a new issue, it was present the very day it was released, prevalently expressed on the forums, and predictably inevitable. The beginnings of scoping out a plan should have started a long time ago. Even more so, scoping out a plan should have been done before ZOS released crown store XP items that can only make the issue worse. The outcome of those scrolls was not a surprise, it was described in detail in the developer discussion thread. Thinking back from the beginning of this to now, I am astonished that a plan is only now being looked for.

(I know you are just the messenger so this is to the source)

RazzPitazz

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone, just a heads up that we are internally discussing your concerns (we've been reading them) -- we posted this in another thread, but it's worth repeating.

We're currently looking into ways we can help those new to the Champion System catch up a bit, and also decrease the gap between those who are just starting out and those who have accumulated a ton of points. Once we have a plan scoped out a bit more, we will be sharing it and looking to get everyone's thoughts.

Good luck

Elloa

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone, just a heads up that we are internally discussing your concerns (we've been reading them) -- we posted this in another thread, but it's worth repeating.

We're currently looking into ways we can help those new to the Champion System catch up a bit, and also decrease the gap between those who are just starting out and those who have accumulated a ton of points. Once we have a plan scoped out a bit more, we will be sharing it and looking to get everyone's thoughts.

Can't wait to read more about this! I'm curious to see what you have in store for us.
Thanks to always listen to the community and keep us uptodate! I'm aware that we, players, are "difficult" to please, but that's because we love the game and want it to be as succesful and fun as it can be for all kind of players!

Lot's of courage for you and the dev's team!

elias.stormneb18_ESO

sadownik wrote: »

elias.stormneb18_ESO wrote: »

To battle proletariat, together we shall make revolution against the Grinders and create a free and democratic ESO republic!

I guess another USA citizen?

No I'm a Swede.

RobDaCool

Isn't like every other multiplayer game? Whomever can set on their butt the longest at it wins

TheBonesXXX

Tuesday morning madness! Hi ZoS and Nirnaddicts,

Glad to see this thread is still going strong, skimmed through some pages. Going to have to agree with some statements made, particularly @Attorneyatlawl, I too would like to see some quantified data of the mathematical discrepancies and the gap in the algorithms before any hard decision is made!

I think the answer is in the math; while ESO's storytelling is exquisite my mathematical and scientific inquiries do lead me to wonder exactly "how things work" opposed to "how things are supposed to work"

I think that would shed a lot of light on people who are like myself, mathematically inclined to crunch some numbers to provide proper feedback.

I will just recap my thoughts,

I do not want Veteran Levels or Champ points to go away, I want the Veteran levels to be the proper ceiling and lateral progression they were intended to be; I would also like to see Champ points be the proper supplement they were intended to be, with that said I hope Veteran Levels can be linked to the champ points mathematically. If possible! T

So the game would look like this,

Hero Goes through his/her trials and tribulations, gets cool stuff, fights bad guys, gets more cool stuff, fights storyline antagonist, kicks antagonists ass, enjoys rest of story while gaining lateral stuff like points, gears, and champ points (that are not mathematically breaking but visually stunning, super cool, and release cool chemicals in mah brain) all the while waiting for the "next mountain" or "next underworld" to kick the next persons ass. I do see this as "busy work" I see this as the next build up to the next antagonist, that's what MMO are meant for, being the hero, killin' the villain; and beating everyone up in PvP.

Meanwhile; in Cyrodiil, we are kicking each others asses blowing each other up, killing each other, and fighting over Imperial City while getting more super cool stuff, titles, rewards, and chemical releases in our craniums.

JamilaRaj

Sposati wrote: »

Unless and until ZOS implements reasonable upper limits on CP attainment and gap-closers, the financial well-being of the game is at risk... Ideally, a fix would also include something that rewards and incents legacy and new players based on game skills, and maybe compensates high-balance champion point accounts in some way.

Players who leave take their wallets with them. PC and console players can/will simply play another game title if they decide ESOTU has become a game for legacy grinders (aka hard-core, pre-existing players who have invested their game resources to max champion points). Atm, it appears that the champion system incents legacy grinders, sorry to say.

I would not worry about financial well-being of the game, not in the short term anyway. Players that put emphasis on fair enviroment may very well take their wallets and get lost without ZOS even noticing, because virtually anything it has revenue from are P2W elements, begining with the imperial edition and ending with XP/CP scrolls, i.e. payments for making the environment unfair those players are not interested in.
On top of it (assuming there would be anything they could pay for to begin with) I doubt they would outpay those who want unfair environment. As I said before, for every Sypher there are 10 clueless people that want to win too no matter how. Unless Sypher also happens to be filthy rich, there is no way the game could be made so that skill matters.
Also, purchasing power of people that are generally interested in long term viability of the game is relatively low compared to that of people that will hang out for only a couple of weeks before moving on to the next shiny thing.

Beerbong_Ginn

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone, just a heads up that we are internally discussing your concerns (we've been reading them) -- we posted this in another thread, but it's worth repeating.

We're currently looking into ways we can help those new to the Champion System catch up a bit, and also decrease the gap between those who are just starting out and those who have accumulated a ton of points. Once we have a plan scoped out a bit more, we will be sharing it and looking to get everyone's thoughts.

Thank you! I know you guys will figure something out (and we'll be back here to complain about it again; it's the circle of life )

Zheg

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone, just a heads up that we are internally discussing your concerns (we've been reading them) -- we posted this in another thread, but it's worth repeating.

We're currently looking into ways we can help those new to the Champion System catch up a bit, and also decrease the gap between those who are just starting out and those who have accumulated a ton of points. Once we have a plan scoped out a bit more, we will be sharing it and looking to get everyone's thoughts.

Well, that's half of it. What about the third vet cap increase you're forcing on us in about a year and a half? Normal mmo's don't do this, and for good reasons. You guys just never seem to learn the lesson when it comes to vet levels, regardless of the feedback we provide, so I don't know why we even bother. But please, continue to hot-nerf any and all XP grind spots that have decent mob density while you hold off on crucial fixes for months on end because you want them to go in a major update instead. We're all glad you have your priorities in order.

I mean, you guys do realize that since we have to wait another few months before the next update drops, and since there's very stale and limited content right now for v14s, there's really no reason at all to bother farming v12 undaunted sets, or getting v12/v14 trials gear, or upgrading gear to gold, or spending AP on gear, since it's all going to be outclassed anyway right? You all share the blame for letting a decision like this make its way past a brainstorming session, but I'd like to know who's actually responsible for coming up with this idea in the first place.

Tolmos

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone, just a heads up that we are internally discussing your concerns (we've been reading them) -- we posted this in another thread, but it's worth repeating.

We're currently looking into ways we can help those new to the Champion System catch up a bit, and also decrease the gap between those who are just starting out and those who have accumulated a ton of points. Once we have a plan scoped out a bit more, we will be sharing it and looking to get everyone's thoughts.

This makes me feel a ton better Thank you for the response.

Visemere

All i know is, levelling VR's takes too long.

Personally i want to see VR xp increased substantially, im only VR3 after a week, and im spending 5-6 hrs sometimes in a session... it shouldnt take that long.

And no, im not buying XP potions for money...

i dont know what the answer is, but i dont enjoy Veteran Levels at all as it stands, i feel like its another barrier between me and PvP if i dont level now, and get CP and VR levels ill be blown apart by higher rank players.

i just want to enjoy all facets of the game.

Armitas

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Glad to see this thread is still going strong, skimmed through some pages. Going to have to agree with some statements made, particularly @Attorneyatlawl, I too would like to see some quantified data of the mathematical discrepancies and the gap in the algorithms before any hard decision is made!

I think the answer is in the math; while ESO's storytelling is exquisite my mathematical and scientific inquiries do lead me to wonder exactly "how things work" opposed to "how things are supposed to work"

I think that would shed a lot of light on people who are like myself, mathematically inclined to crunch some numbers to provide proper feedback.

The truth will not make any significant difference if it is that difficult to obtain. Individual perception is what will make the difference. You can't chase down every poster, or every player with the figures to give them the truth. People will go with their own perception unless shown otherwise, and the majority of the people cannot be reached that they may be shown.

If the notion is true that the CP power gap is not that significant then it will have to change it's appearance to change peoples perception. The appearance of the champion system reaches everyone, the detailed truth of it will only reach a few.

...thinking back, It is unfortunate that they inflated our stats to make the CP points appear more significant, as that is a major portion of the perception real or imaginary.

MissBizz

Visemere wrote: »

All i know is, levelling VR's takes too long.

Personally i want to see VR xp increased substantially, im only VR3 after a week, and im spending 5-6 hrs sometimes in a session... it shouldnt take that long.

And no, im not buying XP potions for money...

i dont know what the answer is, but i dont enjoy Veteran Levels at all as it stands, i feel like its another barrier between me and PvP if i dont level now, and get CP and VR levels ill be blown apart by higher rank players.

i just want to enjoy all facets of the game.

@Visemere just to let you know, they ARE increasing XP for the veteran areas with the next major update. You can see the percentages here
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/190398/full-21th-eso-live-highlights/p1

Visemere

MissBizz wrote: »

Visemere wrote: »

All i know is, levelling VR's takes too long.

Personally i want to see VR xp increased substantially, im only VR3 after a week, and im spending 5-6 hrs sometimes in a session... it shouldnt take that long.

And no, im not buying XP potions for money...

i dont know what the answer is, but i dont enjoy Veteran Levels at all as it stands, i feel like its another barrier between me and PvP if i dont level now, and get CP and VR levels ill be blown apart by higher rank players.

i just want to enjoy all facets of the game.

@Visemere just to let you know, they ARE increasing XP for the veteran areas with the next major update. You can see the percentages here
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/190398/full-21th-eso-live-highlights/p1

for cadwells quests yes, but that increase doesnt ive heard apply to all quests in the zone?