The Day ESO Dies

Victus

Not that I've read the entire 27 page thread at this point, but I feel there needs to be made a distinction between a common misconception:

Getting rid of veteran levels and adding additional veteran levels are two separate things.

Because they have said the plan is to get rid of Vet levels, doesn't mean that adding two more indicates they have gone back on their word. The plan still might be to get rid of them, but just because they have decided to add a couple more doesn't mean this plan is no longer in play.

Bromburak

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

wraithguknub18_ESO wrote: »

This increase to V16 is just a knee jerk reaction to the lack of content people are feeling.

Yes and no, its a necessary step before dropping Veteran levels on a long term.
I know this sounds weird and many of us don't understand why ZOS is doing this but their plan is to change the whole system without Veteranlevels and of course the workload required for this is huge and will take a very long time.

Filling the time between allows them to release more content like IC and technically its easier to add 2 levels than a full re-itemization on everything without Vetlevels until the final goal is done.

However, one side effect with the upcoming changes is that it has an unexpected impact on champion points too.
When players think they have implemented CPs originally so that we can work on something in endgame to improve our characters its true but the upcoming XP Bonus for V 16 raise was not planned when CPs have been added. That's what its basically all about, V14-V16 is nothing more than a time filler and workaround and they didn't calculate all the side effects coming with it.

Okay, what is the goal then? We don't seem to have a clear idea anymore.

Changing the whole system as explained in the quote.

michaelb14a_ESO2

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Which means there is no level playing field in PVP or trials or any other competition among players.

MMORPGs are not, have never been, and will never be, the correct platform for "level playing field" PvP.

MMORPG companies that expend any effort towards that goal achieve only three things:

1) They Fail.
2) They anger the majority players, PvE players, because their game gets ruined in the cause of a balance that can never be attained.
3) They anger the PvPers for trying but failing, and invariably making things worse.

And PvPers who play MMORPGs and claim to want that level playing field are deluding themselves and us, because everyone who has ever played a) MMORPGs and b) real level-playing-field PvP, knows for a fact that the two simply can not be shoehorned together.

All The Best

This^. Not to mention that the exact same "comptitive PVP" population that claims to want that "level playing field", are literally the first to leverage FOTM builds and exploring PTS game meta with the sole purpose of in UN-leveling it. Competitive PVE too.

MichYodias

I do like the champion system and I don't mind the added the vr16 increase at all. In fact I don't want vet ranks to go away at all. What irks me about the champion system was ZoS telling us they were tracking out xp and would implement it. I grinded like a mad man to the point that I can't really do it any more and pretty much got a slap in the face.

Now what I'm wondering on here is out of everyone that feels like they are getting beat by people with more champion points, how many are magicka builds getting rekt by stam? The game feels unbalanced more so bc of nirn making my what should be 10k plus molten whip hit for 4k while they come back at me with dual maces negating any armor I have. Armor mitigation itself is totally unbalanced. There is no way light armor should have 25% mitigation and medium 75%. Telling me you use the same pool for defense and attack is BS also. Medium gets more out nirn, reinforced, medium armor focus, and spell shield. I had to make a stam build to see for myself. I LOL every time I look at the light armor focus champion passive with 5 pieces of light and then see the same for medium. I'm not asking for my DK to be 1.5 tanky (well maybe I am) but let's buff light a little.

I would have to admit a 1000 point champion point would most likely end in a loss against a competent player. However, I remember reading somewhere after a certain point, you no longer increase your resource pools with each champion point, I think a lot of people don't realize(unless I'm wrong and I could be). I wish I could find the source

Cherryblossom

MichYodias wrote: »

I would have to admit a 1000 point champion point would most likely end in a loss against a competent player. However, I remember reading somewhere after a certain point, you no longer increase your resource pools with each champion point, I think a lot of people don't realize(unless I'm wrong and I could be). I wish I could find the source

There are diminishing returns for CP, so you get to the point where the gain is tiny... But at this point you are hugely more powerful than someone who's only just got to max level and just started collecting CP. This is the real issue.

synnerman

TheBull wrote: »

synnerman wrote: »

Couldn't agree more with Deltia re champion points. I was playing this game from early access up until a few months ago when I got sick of the performance in Cyrodiil ( I and most of my guild). Recently I have been keeping up with events and some of my guild have been doing the same and can see what may be coming with the imperial city patch and hopefully some performance improvements along with much needed balance issues.

Those issues I may be able to live with and return along with some of my buddies (logged in a few times recently) HOWEVER the one thing that will stop us returning and actually re-subbing is if there is no catch up system in place. I currently have 133 champion points and I ONLY PvP as do most of my guildies and if we are at a constant and frankly huge disadvantage in pvp due to having no way of catching up champion points then I will simply uninstall this game and NEVER return.

So ZoS the ball is in your court If you want to have your glory when the imperial city hits by bringing back players that have left or tried out other games then the catch up system needs to be in place as I know for a fact I will not spend a single penny until that happens and if I start to invest my time in another game after your update then that will be it for me and most the guys who were in Renegades EU.

Champ points are why you are losing huh? If you had 100 more you guys would win huh?

This is nonsense.

Good post!!! rofl....seriously you need to learn to read also how many champion points do you think people are ahead of me now 100?? you're deluded matey. I am willing to bet that there are people with 300 more than me now never mind in the future. What will newcomers do when they start 500 behind its an unfair system for those that don't live on the game and believe me I used to.

coryevans_3b14_ESO

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

@Enraged_Tiki_Torch when quest grinding what quest takes 20 minutes? honest quesion. Mostly recently I did the first 30 quests in vr stormhaven at 5:03 minute breakdown, I've never run into an actual 20 minute quest when quest grinding. (still trying for the 4:30 mark that was said way back in the day by ZoS). All enlightened plus xp scroll and in 2 hours 6 cp's killing some mobs along the way. If this bumps up to 12 it'll make a difference.

Does further xp balancing need to happen sure.

I have to agree. Another important point that is typically overlooked is that you should, and will be, killing a lot of mobs as you move through questing areas completing those quests. I can't think of any single quest that would normally take 20 minutes as you plow through the zones if trying to quest grind. Simply calling out the XP you earn on a turn-in sidesteps the issue of XP/hour, which is the right yardstick for that discussion, as you mentioned.

Beefing up the base quest XP (that then gets raised by XP potions, the subscription bonus (if subscribed), etc.) adds a decent raise in your XP/hour. Most games, however, don't reach the best XP when questing by dodging agro and killing the minimum amount of mobs in your path; generally, you're best off killing as many as humanly possible while minimizing the extra travel distance and speed impact on your route as a whole.

For example, stopping entirely to go hunt one tiger hiding under a tree 20 feet away... not smart. Nuking a tiger 5 feet ahead of you as you approach, without even needing to turn off the way you were going and not even stopping other than to quickly grab the loot off of it... is smart. .

Rosveen wrote: »

I voted for him. I don't need to agree with everything he says to recognize his contributions to the community. *shrugs*

Games have to be enjoyable first and foremost. To survive and thrive, an MMO needs to be fun for existing players and accessible to new players. It isn't fun when time becomes more important than skill - unless hardcore grinders are your target audience, but I doubt this is what ZOS intended. It isn't accessible when a new player can't catch up in any reasonable amount of time. These are long-term problems ZOS needs to consider and prevent. It's good that we're talking about them.

Thank you, and especially moreso for understanding that just because people don't have the same point of view, their thoughts aren't automatically invalidated. Even when I don't agree with what someone's saying... I put forth an effort to try to at least get where they're coming from. Regardless if I still completely disagree at that point, I've learned something in doing so.

Now, I do absolutely, however, agree with you on the accessibility front. I hate doing this, but it would basically just be paraphrasing myself, not to just quote it. This isn't a difficult problem to address, in my opinion, and is being extremely overcomplicated in most of the discussions I've been reading on the forums here, and elsewhere. Here's how I think it breaks down, and how they can fairly keep it in check... numbers, of course, can always be tweaked .

Attorneyatlawl wrote:

Wow has lockout timers. ESO has RNG (random drop chances). Both result in the same statistical loot distribution, over time, and are different ways of doing the same thing but with less player annoyance by being strictly forbidden to play that content during a lockout.

Wow has new gear that immediately makes everything else you've ever done in the game or obtained for equipment obsolete and essentially worthless. ESO has beyond-extremely minor power increases on gear, with the changes providing more horizontal (different, but not numerically stronger) progression availability through new set bonus types, skills, and other facets.

Wow immediately sets everyone back to square one. It then requires everyone to start back up from scratch, repeating the same thing as the prior time period where top-end progression players speed through and gain their old power gap back in short order, while less competitive players are left in the dust and unable to in any way, shape, or form, including even being carried and playing a ludicrous amount of time per day, catch up if they didn't do it from the start. ESO provides such a small amount of extra raw power on the equipment that it could be considered zero statistically (see the math below).

The champion system is a big can of worms. Suffice to say, the first 300-400 points are important. The next couple of hundred will continue to gain moderately for many builds. Beyond that, you see a significant nosedive in how much they amplify your actual performance, both due to inherent relative diminishment and what parts of your combat they affect. I'll be doing a detailed post regarding this soon, but by and large, a simple "The first X number of champion points require less XP" that is raised every so often with patches over time.

For now we could have them say, "The first 120 champion points take less XP to earn" and then six months from now, "The first 225 champion points take less XP to earn" and so on, which would basically take care of the issue of power gaps when combined with the current enlightenment system that penalizes you after earning your first champion point in any given 24-hour period. Yes, the numbers are shiny and big. No, they don't make as giant a gap as it intuitively looks, when you boil it down to the facts after a moderate initial champion rank as described above. Wow's system is by far worse if you are not a hardcore player, for allowing you to even attempt to "keep up with the Joneses". Doing this, quicker players get to stay ahead for their efforts, but it curbs how extreme the differences in raw character power can ever reach.

Look I just want to know if you actually have some sort of insight or access that we don't. I thought that was the whole point. Your opinion is meaningless to me. I want answers from the devs.

And your opinion is probably meaningless to anyone who reads this ^^

Being mean to Miss Bizz is unacceptable. Go find a different game to play if this one is making you so angry.

Robbmrp

NobleNerd wrote: »

2 vet levels are not "busy work". its come out along with the imperial city. craglorn v11-12, upper crag 13-14 imp city 15-16.. duh



Imperial City is PvP only. Why would you add 2 vr levels for just PvP? If they are raising the vr levels hopefully they have more than IC to offer.

Also if there is going to be new gear tiers with the new content there better be upgrades to the crafting.... considering when ESO was talked about pre-launch it was all about how important crafted gear was going to be to the game. I believe it was even said it was going to be the most important gear in the game.... doesn't feel that way lately.

Oh yeah, if ZOS things PVE'ers are ticked off now with no new content, think of how much WORSE it will be with 2 more levels for them to Grind with 0 PVE content......

ch.ris317b14_ESO

The given reason for the increase is essentially a time sink....

Welp there are half a dozen other ways... extremely less inflammatory ways to gove people a time sink while you develop stuff.

New Skill lines

Episodic Story quests

Different PVP objective games... arenas, capture the flag etc

Some kind of world events

... etc.

I like the E-Sport aspect of games like GW2 or LoL

But I could give a crap about competitiveness at the end of the day, I am sick and damned tired of playing the same content over and over again except with more health and more damage.

RazzPitazz

Make CP with a standard xp curve.

IcyDeadPeople

RazzPitazz wrote: »

Make CP with a standard xp curve.

Getting to 3600 max CP is already going to take 5-10 years for average player earning 1-2 CP per day. You want to delay this by another decade?

Bromburak

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

RazzPitazz wrote: »

Make CP with a standard xp curve.

Getting to 3600 max CP is already going to take 5-10 years for average player earning 1-2 CP per day. You want to delay this by another decade?

We are talking about playing not being afk.

RazzPitazz

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

RazzPitazz wrote: »

Make CP with a standard xp curve.

Getting to 3600 max CP is already going to take 5-10 years for average player earning 1-2 CP per day. You want to delay this by another decade?

That's only if your first cp starts at 400k xp, which I am not suggesting. In fact I suggest the 400k Mark shouldn't hit until at least least 1500 CP. Its not a perfect suggestion but it would take care of the gap by allowing newer vets to accumulate the first round of CP that make real difference while allowing the seasoned vets to maintain their lead with the least impact to skill based performance. The length of time will be monstrous regardless of how we spin it, I'm just suggesting a way to keep the gap to a minimum without alienating players.

GrieverXVII

so many opinions in here, mine will probably be buried along with the many others but i personally feel that VR ranks are fairly pointless..level cap should really just be 50, and Champion points should only affect PvE and be disabled for PvP. that way people feel constant progression and reward in a PvE environment, and disabling CP for PvP will put people on an even playing field where skill will matter over time invested.

RazzPitazz

GrieverXVII wrote: »

so many opinions in here, mine will probably be buried along with the many others but i personally feel that VR ranks are fairly pointless..level cap should really just be 50, and Champion points should only affect PvE and be disabled for PvP. that way people feel constant progression and reward in a PvE environment, and disabling CP for PvP will put people on an even playing field where skill will matter over time invested.

The issue then comes with the PvE leader boards.

GrieverXVII

RazzPitazz wrote: »

GrieverXVII wrote: »

so many opinions in here, mine will probably be buried along with the many others but i personally feel that VR ranks are fairly pointless..level cap should really just be 50, and Champion points should only affect PvE and be disabled for PvP. that way people feel constant progression and reward in a PvE environment, and disabling CP for PvP will put people on an even playing field where skill will matter over time invested.

The issue then comes with the PvE leader boards.

oh, did not know of that. but at this point...it doesn't look like any solution will make everyone happy. I think a choice will need to be made and it will have to involve the least amount of cons. Honestly i wouldn't miss the leaderboards

that's just me though.

TheBull

synnerman wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

synnerman wrote: »

Couldn't agree more with Deltia re champion points. I was playing this game from early access up until a few months ago when I got sick of the performance in Cyrodiil ( I and most of my guild). Recently I have been keeping up with events and some of my guild have been doing the same and can see what may be coming with the imperial city patch and hopefully some performance improvements along with much needed balance issues.

Those issues I may be able to live with and return along with some of my buddies (logged in a few times recently) HOWEVER the one thing that will stop us returning and actually re-subbing is if there is no catch up system in place. I currently have 133 champion points and I ONLY PvP as do most of my guildies and if we are at a constant and frankly huge disadvantage in pvp due to having no way of catching up champion points then I will simply uninstall this game and NEVER return.

So ZoS the ball is in your court If you want to have your glory when the imperial city hits by bringing back players that have left or tried out other games then the catch up system needs to be in place as I know for a fact I will not spend a single penny until that happens and if I start to invest my time in another game after your update then that will be it for me and most the guys who were in Renegades EU.

Champ points are why you are losing huh? If you had 100 more you guys would win huh?

This is nonsense.

Good post!!! rofl....seriously you need to learn to read also how many champion points do you think people are ahead of me now 100?? you're deluded matey. I am willing to bet that there are people with 300 more than me now never mind in the future. What will newcomers do when they start 500 behind its an unfair system for those that don't live on the game and believe me I used to.

Your paranoia is getting the best of you. I'm willing to bet that less than 5% of the people playing have more than 400 champ points. ZOS already said they are going to implement a catch up system that will speed people to 400.

Again you will not be losing because of champ points. Great players were great before and still are now. The same goes for good and bad players.

I bet every time you face another person you wonder how many champ points they have don't you? During battle before or after the amount of champ points someone has has NEVER crossed my mind.

Zurixadai

Hey guys! This is my first post, here, although I've been playing ESO (on and off) since PC Beta and finally got an account for the forums. It's an honor to officially meet you all.

I guess I just wanted to add my thoughts, here.

Levels one through fifty were a mountain, and I enjoyed the climb. But Veteran Ranks met me on the mountaintop and told me to keep climbing to the moon, and I have trudged sluggishly onward ever since.

This is coming from a guy who has played only the smallest iota of PvP, in a futile effort to save that until max level: please don't push the moon farther away. It's not that Veteran leveling is difficult, or even challenging, it's just that it's mind-numbingly, soul-crushingly dull.

As for the Champion System, I suppose I can't say. As stated, I haven't played much of PvP, so I can only imagine how big the gap is between players. If it's causing that much of an issue, it definitely needs a retooling.

Again, nice to meet you all!

Bromburak

synnerman wrote: »

I am willing to bet that there are people with 300 more than me now never mind in the future. What will newcomers do when they start 500 behind its an unfair system for those that don't live on the game and believe me I used to.

No, from Vet 1 - X you have a lot of time to gain many CP during leveling through content.
Someone who leveled all his Vets before the CPs doesn't, he MUST grind.

There is more than one perspective when it comes to CP ...

But the most important thing that should be done is disabling CPs in non Vet campaigns because this is really totally out of control since you use CP on toons.

Enraged_Tiki_Torch

reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »

You're kind of all over the place in your post but I will point out that personally I am at the complete other spectrum from grinders, I do zero grinding, have very few CP compared to other veterans with similar game time played and still do not feel disadvantaged at all in PVP. So no one is forcing anyone to grind with the current CP system, nor do I personally believe it is necessary in order to enjoy the game or do very well in both PVE and PVP

Doesn't matter if you "feel" disadvantaged, when someone else does more damage to you and you do less damage to them statistically, you're at a disadvantage.

Is this a state of denial? I understand it's a difference of opinion on the subject. I also get there is a ton of skill involved in the game but ignoring the ever widening cap CPs the community of players have is a clear imbalance issue in the game.

Yes, award people for being skilled not for running in circles. I don't think the issue is with the system just how it is acquired. Because there is a vast diversity of playstyles in the game, none should be left behind nor should any be favored. I personally support awarding CP by completing Achievements. 90% of them are easy to get so everyone will be in the same range. While also having those Achievements that are more difficult to earn awarding players for their hard work and skill. But it wouldn't be a disparity of several hundred CP and there are always clear goals to strive for while playing.

I also don't fully support the season idea, although it is better than what we have now. Reason being is it now caters to casuals just as the current caters to grinders. Those players who do have a lot of time to play the game will be left with no sense of anything to do cause they would cap out early and be bored waiting for casuals to finally catch up.

Catch up method? Hand-holding imo and it will only be a temporary solution. When the game is out for a year and new player finally reaches Veteran ranks. What is their catch method going to be? +2000% CP exp gain. To me, that is unfair to those players who worked 20 times harder to get their CPs.

TheBull

Zurixadai wrote: »

Hey guys! This is my first post, here, although I've been playing ESO (on and off) since PC Beta and finally got an account for the forums. It's an honor to officially meet you all.

I guess I just wanted to add my thoughts, here.

Levels one through fifty were a mountain, and I enjoyed the climb. But Veteran Ranks met me on the mountaintop and told me to keep climbing to the moon, and I have trudged sluggishly onward ever since.

This is coming from a guy who has played only the smallest iota of PvP, in a futile effort to save that until max level: please don't push the moon farther away. It's not that Veteran leveling is difficult, or even challenging, it's just that it's mind-numbingly, soul-crushingly dull.

As for the Champion System, I suppose I can't say. As stated, I haven't played much of PvP, so I can only imagine how big the gap is between players. If it's causing that much of an issue, it definitely needs a retooling.

Again, nice to meet you all!

It's not.

louweezi2preub18_ESO

Or instead of devoting resources to figure out and balance inane progression systems... you just concentrate on story content, and add gear and regular levels.... like financially successful games have been doing since DnD

/Agree!
Thanks for your post

Enraged_Tiki_Torch

Zurixadai wrote: »

Hey guys! This is my first post, here, although I've been playing ESO (on and off) since PC Beta and finally got an account for the forums. It's an honor to officially meet you all.

I guess I just wanted to add my thoughts, here.

Levels one through fifty were a mountain, and I enjoyed the climb. But Veteran Ranks met me on the mountaintop and told me to keep climbing to the moon, and I have trudged sluggishly onward ever since.

This is coming from a guy who has played only the smallest iota of PvP, in a futile effort to save that until max level: please don't push the moon farther away. It's not that Veteran leveling is difficult, or even challenging, it's just that it's mind-numbingly, soul-crushingly dull.

As for the Champion System, I suppose I can't say. As stated, I haven't played much of PvP, so I can only imagine how big the gap is between players. If it's causing that much of an issue, it definitely needs a retooling.

Again, nice to meet you all!

This is my BIGGEST complaint. I want this game to be successfully. I enjoy it, this is becoming an epidemic with this game. Players reach Veteran 1 and find out they have only gone a 1/4 of the way to cap Veteran 14. It's disheartening for a lot of people. Then you tell em about the Champion point system and just getting to 300 CP (which is about a level point where the game becomes somewhat fair). They have only made it maybe 1% of the way so far. The grind is so horrendously long in the game that the time investment is not worth it.

Sad when Console came out and all these players were amazed by the game and now they are like "WTF".

Bromburak

Rosveen wrote: »

ch.ris317b14_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

ch.ris317b14_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

ch.ris317b14_ESO wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

ch.ris317b14_ESO wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

this is turning into the Marxist ESO Manifesto. From each according to their ability to each according to their need. Let's just have a continuous "catch up" mechanism in place. XP and CP are distributed evenly based on current players.

:-/


Why the hell should there be a catch up method when there is already diminishing return on the use of CP points? That is your catch up method. At some point a person only gets .1 for the use of 1. When you are lower in CP in a category you GET MORE % out of the use of a point. We don't need no stinking catch up buttons... just sayin.

The true marxism is you people wanting the prasants to farm for no gain... kind of like a stalinist economy.

True competition... as in all sport, involves standardized equipment.

Everyone has access to the same equipment. It's what's underneath that counts. Who trains harder. Who puts their time in. Who pushes themselves. Who is disciplined. Who plans. Who wants it more. Not who whines loudest and longest.

Nothing you do in front of a computer screen counts as training hard

I guess Bill Gates didn't learn much to train to be capable of creating Windows then, did he? Or Larry Page and Sergey Brin as co-founders for another later, extremely important invention to our everyday lives, called Google, then, eh?

Rhetorical question, and food for thought...

Lemme know how playing something other people created equates to inventing new technologies

You may as well have said, "Nothing you do on a football field counts as training hard."

Head over to ESPN's forums and let me know how it goes .

There is a distinct difference in actually working out, and learning how to compete physically... and pressing 8 buttons on a keyboard... where it all comes down to math

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about chess?

There is you and your brain, no builds, no clones. Pure skill.

RazzPitazz

Zurixadai wrote: »

Hey guys! This is my first post, here, although I've been playing ESO (on and off) since PC Beta and finally got an account for the forums. It's an honor to officially meet you all.

I guess I just wanted to add my thoughts, here.

Levels one through fifty were a mountain, and I enjoyed the climb. But Veteran Ranks met me on the mountaintop and told me to keep climbing to the moon, and I have trudged sluggishly onward ever since.

This is coming from a guy who has played only the smallest iota of PvP, in a futile effort to save that until max level: please don't push the moon farther away. It's not that Veteran leveling is difficult, or even challenging, it's just that it's mind-numbingly, soul-crushingly dull.

As for the Champion System, I suppose I can't say. As stated, I haven't played much of PvP, so I can only imagine how big the gap is between players. If it's causing that much of an issue, it definitely needs a retooling.

Again, nice to meet you all!

There are a few gaps, however most of the talk is hypothetical. It's not about what the gap is now, but how it can get worse over time. Some of us are trying to think of preventative measures before it gets out of hand.

Blud

Massively OP writer's opinion on the subject:

massivelyop.com/2015/07/07/tamriel-infinium-elder-scrolls-onlines-veteran-ranks-are-here-to-stay/

Here is the TL;DR version of the writer's opinion:

"There are many people who are frustrated by the current endgame systems in ESO, and I totally get that. And I admit that if I were a hardcore endgame-centric player, I would be upset by these issues too. And chances are, I would not be playing this game at all. However, I’m having fun playing for a few hours a week just leveling up my character as I see fit. I absorb the stories that I am playing through and if there is a point that frustrates me as I’m playing, I move on to something else. Although ESO is admittedly another combat simulator, there are many things to do. The crafting system is fun, PvP is interesting, and my favorite is pickpocketing.

I think it’s a huge mistake on ZeniMax’s part to add more Veteran Ranks to the endgame, further separating those who just joined the game and those who have been playing for a long time. But with ZeniMax producing content at an alarmingly slow rate, it could literally be years before we see a change in VR. Hopefully, I’m wrong."

k2blader

@Deltia : you are a hardcore player I totally respect because you have the capacity to empathize with casuals. You get that making this game the most fun it can be for all types of players will increase the game's success.

That said, I think there are still people who'd argue having 1,000 CPs more isn't an advantage, or if it is, they "deserve" it. lol

sadownik

TheBull wrote: »

Zurixadai wrote: »

Hey guys! This is my first post, here, although I've been playing ESO (on and off) since PC Beta and finally got an account for the forums. It's an honor to officially meet you all.

I guess I just wanted to add my thoughts, here.

Levels one through fifty were a mountain, and I enjoyed the climb. But Veteran Ranks met me on the mountaintop and told me to keep climbing to the moon, and I have trudged sluggishly onward ever since.

This is coming from a guy who has played only the smallest iota of PvP, in a futile effort to save that until max level: please don't push the moon farther away. It's not that Veteran leveling is difficult, or even challenging, it's just that it's mind-numbingly, soul-crushingly dull.

As for the Champion System, I suppose I can't say. As stated, I haven't played much of PvP, so I can only imagine how big the gap is between players. If it's causing that much of an issue, it definitely needs a retooling.

Again, nice to meet you all!

It's not.

And you know it how?

wildbear247

I agree with the OP and many others on this thread that the Champion System has the potential to really undermine the joy of the PvP experience, and setting new records in PvE leaderboard content. However I think there is a way to easily fix this problem too that would satisfy most folks, which follows:

2) Rework the Champion System for PvP, and for PvE content that's tracked via leaderboards. First I think it's great that the Champion System allows for almost infinite micro-improvements to your character. I think the problem for many people becomes how that system affects PvP and PvE content that's tracked via leaderboards. Basically I think folks are looking for a more fair playing field in both of these areas that isn't affected as much by someone spending countless hours grinding out champion points (otherwise a person who picks up the game 2 years from now will be hopelessly outclassed by the people who have farmed CPs during that time in PvP). For PvP in Cyrodiil I think a relatively simple way to fix this is by default to give every player in Cyrodiil 120 Champion Points (CPs) they can spend for The Warrior, The Mage, and The Thief (360 points total). Cryrodiil players should always receive this 360 CP bonus that only applies in Cyrodiil, and any extra CPs that a player has is disregarded in Cryodiil. Perhaps a similar strategy can be used for PvE leaderboard content. Outside of these 2 areas (PvP and for PvE content that's tracked via leaderboards) the Champion System remains unchanged so a player could enjoy all of the CPs they've grinded for and thereby wreck general PvE content.

This is one improvement of many on a consolidated list I created here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/192666/eso-review-and-list-of-improvements-enhancements#latest

Vizier

BigInGlenumbra wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

ch.ris317b14_ESO wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

this is turning into the Marxist ESO Manifesto. From each according to their ability to each according to their need. Let's just have a continuous "catch up" mechanism in place. XP and CP are distributed evenly based on current players.

:-/


Why the hell should there be a catch up method when there is already diminishing return on the use of CP points? That is your catch up method. At some point a person only gets .1 for the use of 1. When you are lower in CP in a category you GET MORE % out of the use of a point. We don't need no stinking catch up buttons... just sayin.

The true marxism is you people wanting the prasants to farm for no gain... kind of like a stalinist economy.

True competition... as in all sport, involves standardized equipment.

Everyone has access to the same equipment. It's what's underneath that counts. Who trains harder. Who puts their time in. Who pushes themselves. Who is disciplined. Who plans. Who wants it more. Not who whines loudest and longest.

You forgot "Who has nothing to do in their lives." and "Who has no aspirations."

Don't make it sound like killing the same mobs for hours a day everyday is challenging or honorable in any way.

The people who should be rewarded are the people who actually play much of what the game has to offer, that is quests and PvP. Not little locations killing the same mobs over and over. Grinders should be penalized for grinding. They're a terrible minority.

I didn't forget them. I just don't care. Life is what it is and if someone has all the time in the world that's their business.

Grinders aren't a "terrible minority." Your pulling that out of a dark place. Most everyone I know with one or more toons to V14 ground somewhere along the line. And Frankly completing the quests and doing dungeons isn't all that difficult. Don't act like it's some great accomplishment. If a person can't be bothered to grind quests and delves that's their prerogative. Grind quests or grind mobs. Six to one. Half Dozen to another. It's the same thing far as I'm concerned. How someone gets there is up to them. No they shouldn't be "penalized." That's ridiculous. The playing field is even. Each person can quest or grind or whatever they want. That some are faster at leveling isn't my concern. Shouldn't be yours either. Just do better if your bitter about it.