The Day ESO Dies

ch.ris317b14_ESO

Vizier wrote: »

this is turning into the Marxist ESO Manifesto. From each according to their ability to each according to their need. Let's just have a continuous "catch up" mechanism in place. XP and CP are distributed evenly based on current players.

:-/


Why the hell should there be a catch up method when there is already diminishing return on the use of CP points? That is your catch up method. At some point a person only gets .1 for the use of 1. When you are lower in CP in a category you GET MORE % out of the use of a point. We don't need no stinking catch up buttons... just sayin.

The true marxism is you people wanting the prasants to farm for no gain... kind of like a stalinist economy.

True competition... as in all sport, involves standardized equipment.

BugCollector

I quote the most important part of Deltia's plea: My good friend Parfax had an excellent suggestion, simply have seasons for Champion Points. Meaning, every three months or so, you could gain 100 CP. Once you reach that number, you have to wait for the reset.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Attorneyatlawl

Vizier wrote: »

this is turning into the Marxist ESO Manifesto. From each according to their ability to each according to their need. Let's just have a continuous "catch up" mechanism in place. XP and CP are distributed evenly based on current players.

:-/


Why the hell should there be a catch up method when there is already diminishing return on the use of CP points? That is your catch up method. At some point a person only gets .1 for the use of 1. When you are lower in CP in a category you GET MORE % out of the use of a point. We don't need no stinking catch up buttons... just sayin.

Now now... Let's not allow such things as the facts to get in the way... .

ch.ris317b14_ESO

Ultimately grinding and 'progression' are poor substitutes for good gameplay.

If you design a FUN game... and have a story fleshed out... you don't need to redesign the end game three times in a year.

WoW has been out for a decade.... and they've redesigned less than ZOS has

ch.ris317b14_ESO

Each one of the magic schools from the series should have been its own world skill line.

Swords, axes, maces... all could have had unique skill lines within the fighters guild...

Each type of destruction staff shouldnhave been its own line.

You already broke the lore to let us be werewolves and vampires.. well if theres one not pure evil clan of each... why not half a dozen? With their own unique traits?

..... it would not have been hard at all to imagine a much more intruiging, engaging, and balanced game with a vastly more authentic elder scrolls experience... while dumping levels altogether, in favor of a tradig card game approach to skills and lines

ch.ris317b14_ESO

Each aedra and daedra prince could have a skill line.... could have one for the divines, morag tongue, or minifacrions within the guilds?

You had SOO much you could have built on with the skill line concept...

Enraged_Tiki_Torch

Assumptions aren't an argument. Saying CP MIGHT make a difference in PvP is just sticking your head in the sand. They do make a difference, period the end.

10% increase to your damage, NO! That doesn't effect PvP at all. Let me know how CP doesn't effect PvP balance when you get hit with a 20k Wrecking Blow while blocking. All while your attacks do 10% less damage to them.

Tell me about this magical skill you have that somehow overcomes that mathematically advantage?

And where does this advantage come from? Running in a circle, pressing 1 button, for hours on end. Every other game I have played rewards you with power by accomplishing difficult challenges, mostly through endgame gear that drops from difficult fights. Nope not this game, the most powerful advantage you get is from running in a circle, pressing one button.

Actually spending your time PvPing or doing anything else you enjoy in the game punishes you by making you weaker than someone who only runs in circle and has more playtime than you do.

Don't talk about skill, there is no skill in acquiring CP. NONE!!!! And if some of the best players in the game are calling foul, don't use the excuse of only people who suck are complaining. I saw Sypher chimed in and he has an issue with it, so does he suck too?? Maybe you can teach him your magical powers that help you overcome a large CP disadvantage. At least you would adding something productive to the conversation.

S1ipperyJim

I only have 100 CP, I don't grind, have played since beta and I listen to the dialogue and take it slow. As a result my main is only VR 10. Yet my character has a 3.0 + KD in Vet Cyrodiil. I don't know if that is good or not since I didn't PVP that much until recently but I don't see what the problem is with CP? Am I the only one that thinks the system is fine as it is?

I also don't understand why someone like Deltia who grinds constantly and uses any exploits he can to get max level (crab grind, sheep killing etc) and gain CP yet he is sooo upset that people have an unfair advantage with too many CP because he still can't keep up with literally one or two other people out of hundreds of thousands of players.

In MMOs you want your character to feel powerful. Why do people want to nerf the ability to gain very slight ability buffs that have diminishing returns to the point that the difference between putting 99 and 100 CP in one skill tree ability is literally to low a decimal place to even register an increase in buff %?

I also disagree that if I have been playing every day for over a year someone who picks up the game today should be able to catch up to me in progression unless I quit the game. As long as people are earning CP legitimately whether grinding or questing or doing dailies or trials or PVP they have earned those CP through hard work, time and effort.

People not prepared to put work time and effort into the game have no right to feel entitled to have the same level of reward and ability as those who do.

tordr86b16_ESO

ch.ris317b14_ESO wrote: »

Ultimately grinding and 'progression' are poor substitutes for good gameplay.

If you design a FUN game... and have a story fleshed out... you don't need to redesign the end game three times in a year.

WoW has been out for a decade.... and they've redesigned less than ZOS has

CP is not the problem but the lack of content (quests to gain you experience)...

S1ipperyJim

Drazhar14 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Seaber wrote: »

rb2001 wrote: »

It is akin to going to a master chess tournament and demanding to god that you be as good as the master who has been playing for 20 years.

No. It is more like going to a chess tournament and having to play against someone that has changed all of their pieces for queens just because they have played 20,000 games against himself.

Nope. Personal skill comes with practice. All of the same tools in Chess are available to both players... just as they are here, in ESO.

Not really. In chess, both players have an even playing field. Each piece has the same stats as the opponent's pieces. Chess is a fair game that relies on skill. ESO doesn't have as much to do with skill as it has whoever spent the most time grinding for superior stats to make the playing field uneven. As one player grinds to catch up, the other keeps grinding to stay ahead. This is the flaw with unlimited vertical progression.

Not really even. In chess white has a 4% win advantage over black do to starting advantage.

I personally think a lot of assumptions and exaggerations such as the one made by Deltia about Sypher losing a PVP duel against someone with more CP are not necessarily true. A skillfull player can beat someone with a statistical advantage in any game, this happens all the time and some of the best players enjoy this challenge. For instance, in COD going pistol only in FFA and beating everyone using the best guns in the game.

Here's the other thing: If someone like Deltia wants to beat SypherPK fairly using skill what is preventing them from both agreeing to disable CP and having a duel in some isolated area of Cyrodiil? Absolutely nothing.

I personally think having CP free PVP campaigns and eventually dueling would be a great addition to the game for people that want a more balanced style of PVP.

Enraged_Tiki_Torch

Since when is running in a circle pressing 1 button hard work??? And effort?? If you want to grind, have fun but don't claim you deserve to have the benefits several hundred CPs grant for it. You'll make a lot of gold, I am sure. Be happy because that is ALL grinding is worth.

What argument supports that with 100 CP, you can reduce the cost of an ability by ~10%. Take an ability that costs 5k base. You should get roughly the same benefit from Grinding than what you would get from having 4 Legendary Monumental Reduced Cost Glyphs on V9+ Jewelry. While also getting a similar bonus to 2 other passives. Oh don't forget that 12% crit you get and if something hits you hard you get a free Magical Flood effect.

Forgot they diminish, but not for those with 500+ verses someone with 200. Pretty much the same imbalance. Sucks today to be someone who enjoys the world in ESO cause only tiny little portions of it are important. Don't worry though, I heard they were moving the important spot to another cave. YIPPEE!!!

Oh yeah everyone should be grinding or it's their fault right? It's not "play how you want" the Elder Scrolls Motto, it's get your boots on because we're gonna force you to GRIND in this game. PvP, Dungeons, Trials, really anything else is play time and you got WORK to do. If you play 8hrs a day maybe you can squeeze in some of the other stuff.

Tell me again bout how this couldn't possible effect gameplay, whether it is PvP or PvE.

Why should Zenimax release any new content? I got a perfectly good cave in Cyrodil and nice little spot in the Rift to get all the CP I want.

Oh and those few hundred CP I got really makes the game feel challenging. GOD MODE is so 1980's Game Genie, BORING!!! And how do you balance a game with a population separated by 1000 CP in the future. Do you make content so easy that players quit out of boredom? Or do you make it so difficult that people get killed by skeevers again? (Remember not everyone is super amazing at this game) Anyway I thought that was an issue for Zenimax a year ago.

SanTii.92

reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Drazhar14 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Seaber wrote: »

rb2001 wrote: »

It is akin to going to a master chess tournament and demanding to god that you be as good as the master who has been playing for 20 years.

No. It is more like going to a chess tournament and having to play against someone that has changed all of their pieces for queens just because they have played 20,000 games against himself.

Nope. Personal skill comes with practice. All of the same tools in Chess are available to both players... just as they are here, in ESO.

Not really. In chess, both players have an even playing field. Each piece has the same stats as the opponent's pieces. Chess is a fair game that relies on skill. ESO doesn't have as much to do with skill as it has whoever spent the most time grinding for superior stats to make the playing field uneven. As one player grinds to catch up, the other keeps grinding to stay ahead. This is the flaw with unlimited vertical progression.

Not really even. In chess white has a 4% win advantage over black do to starting advantage.

I personally think a lot of assumptions and exaggerations such as the one made by Deltia about Sypher losing a PVP duel against someone with more CP are not necessarily true. A skillfull player can beat someone with a statistical advantage in any game, this happens all the time and some of the best players enjoy this challenge. For instance, in COD going pistol only in FFA and beating everyone using the best guns in the game.

I personally think having CP free PVP campaigns and eventually dueling would be a great addition to the game for people that want a more balanced style of PVP.

This, exactly. The over reactions are out of proportion. It's not like Zos hadn't patched accordingly in the past. In my opinion we don't need more revamps of exisiting systems, we need brand new ones by now. The Cps balance can be adjust with different campaigns.-

Vizier

ch.ris317b14_ESO wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

this is turning into the Marxist ESO Manifesto. From each according to their ability to each according to their need. Let's just have a continuous "catch up" mechanism in place. XP and CP are distributed evenly based on current players.

:-/


Why the hell should there be a catch up method when there is already diminishing return on the use of CP points? That is your catch up method. At some point a person only gets .1 for the use of 1. When you are lower in CP in a category you GET MORE % out of the use of a point. We don't need no stinking catch up buttons... just sayin.

The true marxism is you people wanting the prasants to farm for no gain... kind of like a stalinist economy.

True competition... as in all sport, involves standardized equipment.

Everyone has access to the same equipment. It's what's underneath that counts. Who trains harder. Who puts their time in. Who pushes themselves. Who is disciplined. Who plans. Who wants it more. Not who whines loudest and longest.

timidobserver

I do not think the Champion System and the Veteran System should be co-existing. They need to pick one and drop the other. Though I can certainly understand how it will take a great deal of time and effort to actually get rid of the veteran system.

S1ipperyJim

Enraged_Tiki_Torch wrote: »

Oh yeah everyone should be grinding or it's their fault right? It's not "play how you want" the Elder Scrolls Motto, it's get your boots on because we're gonna force you to GRIND in this game.

You're kind of all over the place in your post but I will point out that personally I am at the complete other spectrum from grinders, I do zero grinding, have very few CP compared to other veterans with similar game time played and still do not feel disadvantaged at all in PVP. So no one is forcing anyone to grind with the current CP system, nor do I personally believe it is necessary in order to enjoy the game or do very well in both PVE and PVP

S1ipperyJim

[/quote]This, exactly. The over reactions are out of proportion. It's not like Zos hadn't patched accordingly in the past. In my opinion we don't need more revamps of exisiting systems, we need brand new ones by now. The Cps balance can be adjust with different campaigns.-[/quote]

Exactly, lack of content is more of a concern right now and most people have completely overlooked the fact that the new VR levels will be coming out with brand new content which will be the Imperial City update.

BigInGlenumbra

Vizier wrote: »

ch.ris317b14_ESO wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

this is turning into the Marxist ESO Manifesto. From each according to their ability to each according to their need. Let's just have a continuous "catch up" mechanism in place. XP and CP are distributed evenly based on current players.

:-/


Why the hell should there be a catch up method when there is already diminishing return on the use of CP points? That is your catch up method. At some point a person only gets .1 for the use of 1. When you are lower in CP in a category you GET MORE % out of the use of a point. We don't need no stinking catch up buttons... just sayin.

The true marxism is you people wanting the prasants to farm for no gain... kind of like a stalinist economy.

True competition... as in all sport, involves standardized equipment.

Everyone has access to the same equipment. It's what's underneath that counts. Who trains harder. Who puts their time in. Who pushes themselves. Who is disciplined. Who plans. Who wants it more. Not who whines loudest and longest.

You forgot "Who has nothing to do in their lives." and "Who has no aspirations."

Don't make it sound like killing the same mobs for hours a day everyday is challenging or honorable in any way.

The people who should be rewarded are the people who actually play much of what the game has to offer, that is quests and PvP. Not little locations killing the same mobs over and over. Grinders should be penalized for grinding. They're a terrible minority.

ArcVelarian

Some weekly, or monthly Champion Point acquisition cap is definitely in order. It would be something along the lines of multiples of three (warrior, thief, mage) such as 12 Champion Points maximum a Week or 42 maximum a month.

Now here's the nightmare scenario you would see with that: A flurry of activity just after the monthly/weekly reset, and then Tamriel would become a ghost continent as soon as everyone had grinded out their CPs.

EDIT: Maybe even change how CPs are earned in addition to the weekly/montly cap. As opposed to gaining them for every 200k xp grinded off zombies, you gain them by actually completing content.

12 CPs: Complete all quests in a cadwell's silver/gold zone
9 CPs: Veteran Undaunted pledges, completing a trail in X amount of time
3 CPs: Complete all Lower Craglorn Daily quests, Complete all Upper Craglorn Daily Quests,
Major PvP objectives the first time you complete them that day

RazzPitazz

I see a lot of people claiming that CP does not circumvent skill, and equally as many claiming the contrary and yet no middle ground despite the fact that both are true statements.
Yes, skill will circumvent CP in certain scenarios.
Yes, CP will circumvent skill in other scenarios.
Two players meet. One has signifcant skill while the other has significant CP. A person may argue that this is a stalemate, however a mastery of mechanics will inevitably trump big guns alone.
Two players meet of equal skill. Both have a mastery of mechanics, and to take it further lets say both are on completely equal footing in terms of class, race, skills, passives and gear; completely identical. Normally this would be a true stalemate, except we will give one player 1 CP and the other receives none.
Skill in any regard is no longer a determining factor, in fact in this hypothetical scenario there is only one determining factor, the single CP. Math is not necessary to understand that one person not only has an advantage but also has the battle before swords are even drawn.

Whether Vet Ranks stay or leave is a matter of vertical progression preference and is moot to the underlying issue of skill based gameplay. PvP is about outperforming your opponent (s) into a victory based on who is the better player. Any access to toys or full stats has always been a short term wall towads the even playing field, and this applies to PvE leaderboards as well. VR 14 and gear grinds are short term walls. In the face of 3600 CP wall at 400k experience making 1440000000 experience OR 1, 440 current Vet Ranks makes for an incredible amount of long term dedication that means casual players can never hope to achieve but also means that none other than the hardcore elite with the most TIME will ever see a leaderboard come 3 months from now. The CP system will further bolster the lack of any meaningful small scale PvP coming anytime soon, as they just made class balances about 1, 440x harder than it was pre 1.6 and this can only be hidden in large scale PvP. Skill is now only a factor for those with time, and before anyone brings it up yes, the people with the most time will be using the most xp pots.

Ultimately the CS is a good idea with improper implimentation. Catch up mechanics will only alienate the players that spend the time to stay on top, while limiting the amount of CP gain to a time period will mearly slow the issue as the players with more CP will always retain the exact same lead. In all honesty both need to be implemented very carefully to keep the CS from becoming a runaway train wreck.

Now an idea in the form of a question.
Perhaps rather than playing catch up or playing for the season, how bad would it be to switch CP gain to a dynamic xp rate? Vet Ranks have always been a set 1,000, 000 xp which defies the idea of exponential increases, but why does the CS have to follow the same new rules? Set the first 1-200CP at a lower xp rate, increase the xp required as the account progresses, and by the time a player reaches 3000CP the xp rate would be above 400k. This makes the CS easier to get into, harder to max out, yet easier to close a gap. Perhaps this idea is utter garbage though, you tell me?

trimsic_ESO

If I had designed the CP system, I would have implemented a season system as follows:
- Season 1: max number of CP that can be earned in season 1 set to 360 - duration: 6 months
- Season 2: people who have not yet reached the cap of season 1 are permanently enlighted until they can reach that cap quite rapidely. The max number of CP that can be earned in season 2 is raised to 720 - duration: 6 months. Addition of new gear in the game, more powerful and attractive, thus offering people a new step and new perspectives in their character progression. This new gear can be crafted or / and be looted. Addition of new contents.
- Season 3: same as season 2, with the CP limit raised to 1080. People start the season 3 with at least 360 CP (or more if they already have more)
- Season 4: same as season 3, with the CP limit raised to 1440. People start the season 4 with at least 720 CP. So new comers are welcome in the game.
- Etc...

10 seasons over 5 years, with constant but managed progression, and new gear / contents. That would have been the way I would have designed ESO 2.x.

RazzPitazz

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

If I had designed the CP system, I would have implemented a season system as follows:
- Season 1: max number of CP that can be earned in season 1 set to 360 - duration: 6 months
- Season 2: people who have not yet reached the cap of season 1 are permanently enlighted until they can reach that cap quite rapidely. The max number of CP that can be earned in season 2 is raised to 720 - duration: 6 months. Addition of new gear in the game, more powerful and attractive, thus offering people a new step and new perspectives in their character progression. This new gear can be crafted or / and be looted. Addition of new contents.
- Season 3: same as season 2, with the CP limit raised to 1080.
- Etc...

10 seasons over 5 years, with constant but managed progression, and new gear / contents. That would have been the way I would have designed ESO 2.x.

I considered this idea when forming my post, however it still would alienate the top tier players as this idea would introduce a fast track permEnlightenment, making the CP gain for newcomers a joke rather than a system removing the ideal of much of the work necessary to justify the system in the first place.

felinith66

sadownik wrote: »

Rhakon wrote: »

Idea from @Rune_Relic
They don't need to remove it and replace it with something else with 6 months of work.
All they need to do is add a CHAMPION BAR with 3 slots.
1 Warrior passive can be loaded.
1 Thief passive can be loaded.
1 Mage passive can be loaded.

Now it doesn't matter how many CP you have as you can only use 3 passive out of the 36.

People can grind away to their hearts content.
Someone with 300 CP will be just as powerful as anyone with 3600 CP..except they wont have 36 passive skills to choose from.

The stam/mag/health from each CP has to be nerfed though.

No power creep.
No power gap.
No gated content.
Endless progression
No gated endgame
Forced Build diversity.


additions and ideas from @washlov
sample

Warrior/The Lord/Heavy Armor Focus: Increases your Armor by 13% while wearing 5 or more pieces of heavy armor.

Thief/The Lover/Mooncalf: Increases your Stamina Recovery by 25%.

Mage/The Ritual/Piercing: Increases the amount of Armor your physical attacks ignore by 25%.


sample 2

Warrior/The Steed/Medium Armor Focus: Increases your Armor by 13% when a Medium Armor set of 5 or more pieces is equipped.

Thief/The Tower/Warlord: Reduces the Stamina cost of spells and abilities by 15.8%.

Mage/The Ritual/Precise Strikes: Increases the critical damage of your physical attacks by 25%.


these are two stamina builds but completely different
it would make the CS experimental and make the chars different
it would make the boring linear system where everybody get the same passives interesting and would make it meaningful

Faulgor wrote: »

How would you handle the perks that unlock automatically, like Precise Strike? Would I have to slot those as well, or are they always active?

may than put the Warrior/Mage/Thief restriction away

if you take one perk get the one with the 10 points
if you take two perks get also the one with the 30 points
if you take three perks from one line get all four the fourth is a bonus cause you are a specialist now


sample

Warrior/The Steed/Passive Buffs

one perk:

Invigorating Bash
Gives you a 20% chance to restore 5 Health when you bash an enemy.

two perks:

Phase
After roll dodging, your Armor and Spell Resistance is increased by 1000 for 3 seconds.

three perks(the steed master):

Shield Expert
Increases the Armor and Spell Resistance of equipped Shields by 75%.

Reinforced
When activating block gain a damage shield for 1900 every 10 seconds.


alternative idea

if you take one perk get the one with the 10 points
if you take two perks get the one with the 30 points
if you take three perks get the one with the 75 points

the 120 point perks could be specialist perks which one can be chosen if you have 3 perks of one guardian constellation

so if you have 3 perks choosen from Warrior you would be a specialist and can choose one from:


Reinforced: When activating block gain a damage shield for 1900 every 10 seconds.

Unchained:Reduces the Stamina cost of abilities by 80% for 3 seconds after breaking free of a stun, knockdown, fear, disorient, or stagger.

Determination:Absorbs 1950 damage for 15 seconds after drinking a potion.

you would be a Master Warrior

---

Best Idea so far! THX to you two.

That is actually pretty impressive.

Yes it is.

trimsic_ESO

@RazzPitazz edited my proposal.

Messy1

drogon1 wrote: »

Agree with Deltia here.

I love the account-wide progression system that the Champion system offers, but am worried of serious imbalances that PvE CP grinding will make in Cyrodiil.

On a side note, I am also not a fan that only vet grinding gives CP, because I love and play the majority of my ESO time in the non-vet campaign (thereby gaining no CP - I have a little over 90 CP total - and have been playing off and on since launch). (I have 7 low level vets as I found vet level grinding to not be my cup of tea.)

The alliance war rank system already provides "imbalances" in Cyro as high ranks will have available abilities that provide advantages over low ranks (e.g., vigor). These types of imbalances seem good for the PvP game, as they give PvPers goals to achieve via PvP.

Champion system "imbalances" however are not obtained from PvP, but through "zombie grinding," as Deltia calls it. I have not looked at the math behind it, but if too significant then CP imbalances should be mitigated in ESO, even if only in Cyrodiil.

Hear me out here . . . perhaps the Champion point system should be limited to PvE only . . . give PvP it's own progression system or maybe not a system at all, but some sort of fluid mechanic that allows players to specialize in some portion of PvP that can be changed, but they are only allowed to specialize in one area of PvP at a time.

For example:

A player could decide to gain a skill line called "Siege Expert" that gives them a bonus when operating siege weapons

A player could decide to specialize in "Keep Command" i.e. if the player is defending a keep they grant a small bonus to the HP of the walls, or they do more damage to attackers

Or possibly a player could be a "Ambush Master" so that anytime they are in a group in the field (i.e. out of a keep, not assaulting a keep) they get bonuses to sneak attack damage and sneaking (obviously there would be limits and ambush bonuses would not stack and would favor smaller groups rather than zerg groups)

Something like this might be worth a look . . . right now there are a lot of players running around who seem to be generally too powerful and one man wrecking crews, but perhaps a system is needed that encourages PvP players to organize more for successful keep offense and defense.

BuggeX

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

If I had designed the CP system, I would have implemented a season system as follows:
- Season 1: max number of CP that can be earned in season 1 set to 360 - duration: 6 months
- Season 2: people who have not yet reached the cap of season 1 are permanently enlighted until they can reach that cap quite rapidely. The max number of CP that can be earned in season 2 is raised to 720 - duration: 6 months. Addition of new gear in the game, more powerful and attractive, thus offering people a new step and new perspectives in their character progression. This new gear can be crafted or / and be looted. Addition of new contents.
- Season 3: same as season 2, with the CP limit raised to 1080. People start the season 3 with at least 360 CP (or more if they already have more)
- Season 4: same as season 3, with the CP limit raised to 1440. People start the season 4 with at least 720 CP. So new comers are welcome in the game.
- Etc...

10 seasons over 5 years, with constant but managed progression, and new gear / contents. That would have been the way I would have designed ESO 2.x.

Would also fit perfectly in 2 Major Patches eatch year like zos told us.

Rhakon

Again and for remember, in my opinion the best idea so far.

Idea from @Rune_Relic
They don't need to remove it and replace it with something else with 6 months of work.
All they need to do is add a CHAMPION BAR with 3 slots.
1 Warrior passive can be loaded.
1 Thief passive can be loaded.
1 Mage passive can be loaded.

Now it doesn't matter how many CP you have as you can only use 3 passive out of the 36.

People can grind away to their hearts content.
Someone with 300 CP will be just as powerful as anyone with 3600 CP..except they wont have 36 passive skills to choose from.

The stam/mag/health from each CP has to be nerfed though.

No power creep.
No power gap.
No gated content.
Endless progression
No gated endgame
Forced Build diversity.


additions and ideas from @washlov
sample

Warrior/The Lord/Heavy Armor Focus: Increases your Armor by 13% while wearing 5 or more pieces of heavy armor.

Thief/The Lover/Mooncalf: Increases your Stamina Recovery by 25%.

Mage/The Ritual/Piercing: Increases the amount of Armor your physical attacks ignore by 25%.


sample 2

Warrior/The Steed/Medium Armor Focus: Increases your Armor by 13% when a Medium Armor set of 5 or more pieces is equipped.

Thief/The Tower/Warlord: Reduces the Stamina cost of spells and abilities by 15.8%.

Mage/The Ritual/Precise Strikes: Increases the critical damage of your physical attacks by 25%.


these are two stamina builds but completely different
it would make the CS experimental and make the chars different
it would make the boring linear system where everybody get the same passives interesting and would make it meaningful


Faulgor wrote: »
How would you handle the perks that unlock automatically, like Precise Strike? Would I have to slot those as well, or are they always active?

answer from @washlov

may than put the Warrior/Mage/Thief restriction away

if you take one perk get the one with the 10 points
if you take two perks get also the one with the 30 points
if you take three perks from one line get all four the fourth is a bonus cause you are a specialist now


sample

Warrior/The Steed/Passive Buffs

one perk:

Invigorating Bash
Gives you a 20% chance to restore 5 Health when you bash an enemy.

two perks:

Phase
After roll dodging, your Armor and Spell Resistance is increased by 1000 for 3 seconds.

three perks(the steed master):

Shield Expert
Increases the Armor and Spell Resistance of equipped Shields by 75%.

Reinforced
When activating block gain a damage shield for 1900 every 10 seconds.


alternative idea

if you take one perk get the one with the 10 points
if you take two perks get the one with the 30 points
if you take three perks get the one with the 75 points

the 120 point perks could be specialist perks which one can be chosen if you have 3 perks of one guardian constellation

so if you have 3 perks choosen from Warrior you would be a specialist and can choose one from:


Reinforced: When activating block gain a damage shield for 1900 every 10 seconds.

Unchained:Reduces the Stamina cost of abilities by 80% for 3 seconds after breaking free of a stun, knockdown, fear, disorient, or stagger.

Determination:Absorbs 1950 damage for 15 seconds after drinking a potion.

you would be a Master Warrior

Sandmanninja

ch.ris317b14_ESO wrote: »

Ultimately grinding and 'progression' are poor substitutes for good gameplay.

If you design a FUN game... and have a story fleshed out... you don't need to redesign the end game three times in a year.

WoW has been out for a decade.... and they've redesigned less than ZOS has

Wrong.

Anyone remember Frost Badges? No, wait, Valor Points. Remember Valor Points? No, wait. They're gone now. Anyone grind for Apex Crystals lately? How about locking the really good gear behind time-gated reputation? Yeah, that sounds like fun. Let's make you do 10-15 dailies, per Reputation mob, DAILY. Oh, wait! Want the Legendary Cloak? Okay, go queue for 6 different pugged Raids for a 10-15% chance to drop a single token. And you need, I dunno, 12 tokens. Oh! And you can only get one token a week! Lolz! Got the first 12? Wow - you are determined. Okay, go get 20 of this OTHER kind of token. Same thing - weekly time gated to raid bosses with an equally crappy chance of a drop. Wow! You got THOSE 20? Okay, go get 12 more of this third kind of token! LOLZ! You suckers...

Learn your history - don't make crap up.

Stravokov

I haven't been able to log in with the games current state. im a one character kind of guy personally. i have my VR 14 Vamp Nightblade which i enjoyed playing until i managed to get through most of the endgame content. PVP would have held me to the game but in it's current buggy and imbalanced state, i find myself discourage to even try.

i think most of us have a love hate relationship with ESO. the game has so much potential, but has made countless mistakes i haven't seen since my earlier MMO days. even their weekly patches seem small and irrelevant. non of the major issues have been addressed.

In a gaming market that is so saturated with choices, they cannot afford to keep pulling the rug out from their remaining loyaly customers if they want it to succeed. im Glad someone like Deltia, who has gained this community's respect and trust, is speaking up. maybe they will finally listen, since all of these issues have been falling on deaf ears.

most of my friends that played (along with myself) quit because of the Treadmill VR levels generate. if they are now going back on their word and bumping it up to 16, i wont be coming back at all personally. they have gone back on their word one to many times and im fed up.

Id like to come back, but im not a fan boy. if a game is no longer enjoyable to play, i move on to something worth my time and money.

Sandmanninja

CPs were designed to be long-term, micro-rewards for continuing to play ESO.

Please explain how it's fair for someone to log on to the game, having never played it, and have the same passives as someone who has worked and toiled (no matter how - they earned the damned CPs)?

It's like a new hire at work. Two people doing the same job at work, but one has been there a week and one has been there 2 years. The new guy will NOT have the same amount of benefits accumulated as the employees that have been there for 2 years. I mean, WHY SHOULD THEY?!?!

I'm sorry people grind CPs, but ya know what? That's how they want to play.
I honestly don't feel that's how CPs were meant to be earned but they can be earned that way.
Ya know what? I've tried farming CPs. I killed mobs for about 2 hours and got 3 CPs. Ya know what?
By the time I put 1 CP into each skill line, I had diddily squat to show for those 2 hours of work.
And it was work. It was not fun in the slightest. I'll never do it again. I'd rather just quest (two VR14s and I still have yet to finish the Gold quest line), run dungeons and pvp a lil (trying to get Caltrops).

When you get a lot of CPs, the fractional increase to stats is SO SMALL, it's not even funny.
I honestly have NO IDEA why NEW PLAYERS continue to whine and cry about the 'huge gap' due to CPs.
Ya know what? Maybe that dude kicked your butt in Cyrodiil because he's been playing longer and is, you know, just a better PvPer...

Domander

I really like the vet system, I still don't understand the need to get rid of it.

I also really like the champion system, constant progression, it's nice that everything I do improves my characters. Yes, some will pull ahead and have an advantage. This is an mmorpg, I would not want it any other way, those of you criticizing might want to consider the alternative of being stuck with nothing to improve upon.