The Day ESO Dies

eventide03b14a_ESO

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

@Enraged_Tiki_Torch when quest grinding what quest takes 20 minutes? honest quesion. Mostly recently I did the first 30 quests in vr stormhaven at 5:03 minute breakdown, I've never run into an actual 20 minute quest when quest grinding. (still trying for the 4:30 mark that was said way back in the day by ZoS). All enlightened plus xp scroll and in 2 hours 6 cp's killing some mobs along the way. If this bumps up to 12 it'll make a difference.

Does further xp balancing need to happen sure.

I have to agree. Another important point that is typically overlooked is that you should, and will be, killing a lot of mobs as you move through questing areas completing those quests. I can't think of any single quest that would normally take 20 minutes as you plow through the zones if trying to quest grind. Simply calling out the XP you earn on a turn-in sidesteps the issue of XP/hour, which is the right yardstick for that discussion, as you mentioned.

Beefing up the base quest XP (that then gets raised by XP potions, the subscription bonus (if subscribed), etc.) adds a decent raise in your XP/hour. Most games, however, don't reach the best XP when questing by dodging agro and killing the minimum amount of mobs in your path; generally, you're best off killing as many as humanly possible while minimizing the extra travel distance and speed impact on your route as a whole.

For example, stopping entirely to go hunt one tiger hiding under a tree 20 feet away... not smart. Nuking a tiger 5 feet ahead of you as you approach, without even needing to turn off the way you were going and not even stopping other than to quickly grab the loot off of it... is smart. .

Rosveen wrote: »

I voted for him. I don't need to agree with everything he says to recognize his contributions to the community. *shrugs*

Games have to be enjoyable first and foremost. To survive and thrive, an MMO needs to be fun for existing players and accessible to new players. It isn't fun when time becomes more important than skill - unless hardcore grinders are your target audience, but I doubt this is what ZOS intended. It isn't accessible when a new player can't catch up in any reasonable amount of time. These are long-term problems ZOS needs to consider and prevent. It's good that we're talking about them.

Thank you, and especially moreso for understanding that just because people don't have the same point of view, their thoughts aren't automatically invalidated. Even when I don't agree with what someone's saying... I put forth an effort to try to at least get where they're coming from. Regardless if I still completely disagree at that point, I've learned something in doing so.

Now, I do absolutely, however, agree with you on the accessibility front. I hate doing this, but it would basically just be paraphrasing myself, not to just quote it. This isn't a difficult problem to address, in my opinion, and is being extremely overcomplicated in most of the discussions I've been reading on the forums here, and elsewhere. Here's how I think it breaks down, and how they can fairly keep it in check... numbers, of course, can always be tweaked .

Attorneyatlawl wrote:

Wow has lockout timers. ESO has RNG (random drop chances). Both result in the same statistical loot distribution, over time, and are different ways of doing the same thing but with less player annoyance by being strictly forbidden to play that content during a lockout.

Wow has new gear that immediately makes everything else you've ever done in the game or obtained for equipment obsolete and essentially worthless. ESO has beyond-extremely minor power increases on gear, with the changes providing more horizontal (different, but not numerically stronger) progression availability through new set bonus types, skills, and other facets.

Wow immediately sets everyone back to square one. It then requires everyone to start back up from scratch, repeating the same thing as the prior time period where top-end progression players speed through and gain their old power gap back in short order, while less competitive players are left in the dust and unable to in any way, shape, or form, including even being carried and playing a ludicrous amount of time per day, catch up if they didn't do it from the start. ESO provides such a small amount of extra raw power on the equipment that it could be considered zero statistically (see the math below).

The champion system is a big can of worms. Suffice to say, the first 300-400 points are important. The next couple of hundred will continue to gain moderately for many builds. Beyond that, you see a significant nosedive in how much they amplify your actual performance, both due to inherent relative diminishment and what parts of your combat they affect. I'll be doing a detailed post regarding this soon, but by and large, a simple "The first X number of champion points require less XP" that is raised every so often with patches over time.

For now we could have them say, "The first 120 champion points take less XP to earn" and then six months from now, "The first 225 champion points take less XP to earn" and so on, which would basically take care of the issue of power gaps when combined with the current enlightenment system that penalizes you after earning your first champion point in any given 24-hour period. Yes, the numbers are shiny and big. No, they don't make as giant a gap as it intuitively looks, when you boil it down to the facts after a moderate initial champion rank as described above. Wow's system is by far worse if you are not a hardcore player, for allowing you to even attempt to "keep up with the Joneses". Doing this, quicker players get to stay ahead for their efforts, but it curbs how extreme the differences in raw character power can ever reach.

Look I just want to know if you actually have some sort of insight or access that we don't. I thought that was the whole point. Your opinion is meaningless to me. I want answers from the devs.

Thanks for being honest, at least, about not wanting to discuss anything and that your opinion is set in stone. You can find information about the Ambassador program here, then: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/173260/esotu-community-ambassador-program/p1 .

So what's the point?

Enraged_Tiki_Torch

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

I have to agree. Another important point that is typically overlooked is that you should, and will be, killing a lot of mobs as you move through questing areas completing those quests. I can't think of any single quest that would normally take 20 minutes as you plow through the zones if trying to quest grind. Simply calling out the XP you earn on a turn-in sidesteps the issue of XP/hour, which is the right yardstick for that discussion, as you mentioned.

Beefing up the base quest XP (that then gets raised by XP potions, the subscription bonus (if subscribed), etc.) adds a decent raise in your XP/hour. Most games, however, don't reach the best XP when questing by dodging agro and killing the minimum amount of mobs in your path; generally, you're best off killing as many as humanly possible while minimizing the extra travel distance and speed impact on your route as a whole.

For example, stopping entirely to go hunt one tiger hiding under a tree 20 feet away... not smart. Nuking a tiger 5 feet ahead of you as you approach, without even needing to turn off the way you were going and not even stopping other than to quickly grab the loot off of it... is smart. .

Of course. I agree it does help, I think more so in leveling 1 to veteran 1. 20 minutes is again a estimate, not all quests take 20 minutes from beginning of storyline to completion and yes there are mini-quests along the way that provide XP. However, usually it's like a 1/4 of the XP from finishing the last part. May have been alittle shortsighted on just the exact amount of XP involved and each quest is a different amount of XP but I think my point still stands. Quest XP per hour will never be anywhere close to Grind XP. This about Champion points and quests are a 1 time shot. If your going for maxing CP, you time is far better spent Grinding and only doing the quests that award a skill point and doing those as fast as possible.

As far as killing stuff on along the way. I just run past stuff that doesn't need to be killed or like you said I can kill it without interrupting my path. Jump on a mount, hit retreating maneuvers and run from point A to point B. The XP/hour add-on has always provided the best results doing it this way. On veteran levels its like 400 xp a kill and I may kill 10 mobs from beginning to end not including any boss fight. Taking the time to kill stuff slows you down in my opinion as well as looting cause most trash doesn't drop anything of use. Get plenty of loot from Grinding and then I only loot every couple of rotations cause mobs with loot don't despawn for a while.

Drazhar14

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Seaber wrote: »

rb2001 wrote: »

It is akin to going to a master chess tournament and demanding to god that you be as good as the master who has been playing for 20 years.

No. It is more like going to a chess tournament and having to play against someone that has changed all of their pieces for queens just because they have played 20,000 games against himself.

Nope. Personal skill comes with practice. All of the same tools in Chess are available to both players... just as they are here, in ESO.

Not really. In chess, both players have an even playing field. Each piece has the same stats as the opponent's pieces. Chess is a fair game that relies on skill. ESO doesn't have as much to do with skill as it has whoever spent the most time grinding for superior stats to make the playing field uneven. As one player grinds to catch up, the other keeps grinding to stay ahead. This is the flaw with unlimited vertical progression.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Paradox wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

If 5 years is too long then what isn't too long? Is 1 year enough for your mythical WOW guild? I've been on XBox for a month. Is that too long? But what about people that get it at Christmas? How will they ever compete?

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

At its current rate, people with be at 3600 by the end of next year, if they continue to grind. People will be ahead of you by so far that you won't have a chance in hell in PvP or on the leaderboards in PvE.

But you continue to mock people. Mock away and provide no feedback. That's helping the discussion.

Then I'll catch up to them next year. That's the point. There is a finite number of champion points. Eventually everyone could get there. Besides, only the first few hundred really matter. The last 3000 points are all for abilities that either require multiple things happening first (block 3 times then...) or counteract each other (enjoy those light armor passives you can't use when in heavy armor).

Stop using hyperbole and I'll stop mocking you for doing it. Also, this is probably my 20th reply, most of which have been very detailed. If you think I've provided no feedback you're just wrong. You might not agree with it but it's there.

Lastly, if I'm not getting destroyed right now in veteran PVP with a non-get what makes you think I'll be destroyed in the upcoming months after I've continued to rank up my character.

The system is not broke. Some of you just aren't all that good. It's ok. Just continue standing in red.

pmn100b16_ESO

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

All the people trying to pin the blame on the 'entitlement culture' are missing the point entirely. This is about encouraging new blood to the game now and in the future. Here's a scenario:

PvE Guild from WoW wants to try another game. Guild Leader: "How about ESO? They've got leader boards right?". Guild Member: "nah, they've got that champion system thing, we'll never catch up".

And they will NEVER catch up, if guilds like Hodor for example continue to grind CP everyday in the meantime. And even if Hodor stopped for a year, it'd still take the new guild a year of grinding CP to get close to Hodor's times on the leader boards. And people will bang on about skill>CP, well if CP has no impact, why would these high end PvE guilds be asking for a minimum CP amount to join them now? Of course they make a difference.

Its totally understandable that if you don't play this game competitively, the CP system makes no impact to you. You might even enjoy seeing that vertical progression, even though it makes next to no difference to your game play. But for those that do play the game competitively, it makes a difference. Whether it be PvE or PvP, hence why this topic was started.

A simple solution would be to remove the parts of the CP system that affect combat effectiveness. Replace them with non essential perks that the less competitive gamer would appreciate more, unique emotes to unlock or something, I dunno. The competitive players will be be happy also cause they won't see themselves or others run away with an advantage based on how often you can afford to grind. Back to my original example, that WoW guild can now join ESO and give those leader boards a shot right after reaching endgame. Surely thats what ESO wants long term, more people playing the game.

But this is probably all falling on deaf ears because more likely then not, this CP gap has been carefully engineered to encourage xp pot purchases. Pretty simple business plan there.

One more time. There is MAX on CP. Your only issue is it takes a long time to get to...

Okay, I'll edit my scenario:
PvE Guild from WoW wants to try another game. Guild Leader: "How about ESO? They've got leader boards right?". Guild Member: "nah, they've got that champion system thing, we'll take 5 years to catch up".

Better? That'll sure offer them encouragement to join.

YES! Because the solutions are totally different. The goal then is to SHORTTEN that grossly overexaggerated "5 years".

Add even more and fun ways to gain exp
Give MORE exp --- which is confirmed coming.
Add exp granting content....

The problem is those railing against the CP system are focusing on the destination, NOT the journey... which is where the problem is.

There is no "fundamental" design problem with the CP system. In fact there is nothing wrong with the "system" at all. It's quite ordinary. So stop the hyperbole, and start asking the right questions.

And current top PvE guilds will continue to use all those extra mechanics you listed too. So what you're saying is, if new guilds want to compete on the leader boards in PvE, they've not only got to get to end game, they got to mindlessly grind whatever content gives the most xp (probably for a year minimum at least, likely more), JUST to get to the point they want to be, i.e. on a competitive level with the current top guilds. Sorry, but if you don't see that as a HUGE barrier to entry on this game, you can't be reasoned with.

No, those existing "top comptitive" PVE guilds wouldn't be using those same mechanics since they would already be at "end game" (capped CP). Sooooo.... where is this barrier? The fact a competitive guild would have to spend ANY amount of time getting to end game? In order to be... COMPETITIVE?

So that IS what you're saying, lol. Any new guild that comes to ESO has got to get to end game, AND get to 3600 CP cap to have a shot at the leaderboards. The barrier is years of grinding. Unless ZoS intends to include mechanics that reduce the 3600 CP grind to the space of a few months, they won't even bother starting, they'll find another game. How long does it take to reach endgame and be competitive in other MMOs? A month or two? Why would someone join ESO?

Anyway, I put this example here because some guy from ZoS said he's lurking. They know the problem, hopefully they're a little brighter than some on here and can find a solution.

Smiteye

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I'm in the community. I don't hate veteran ranks. My 5 friends I play with don't hate them. I've never heard anyone in my 150+ person PVP guild complain about them. What I have heard are 2 dozen angry people I've never met try and speak for me on a message board that encompasses only about 1 tenth of 1 percent of the game's audience. If anything the "attorneyatlaw" has been completely on point with my views and the views of my peers.

The forums do represent people's views... but as you pointed out, they aren't representative of everyone's views. Reddit isn't. Nor are in-game guild chats. Zone chats alone, don't either. Even focused feedback meetings held, fail to encompass everything. You can't make a game by democracy. Heck, even real-world nations like the USA (my home, and birthplace of course) are technically republics. As a decision-maker, which is what ZOS is for their game here, all the feedback you can get has to be taken into account, as well as weighed both by its factual accuracy when statements are made and any opinion-oriented bias (generally not purposeful, even, but because someone says what they really think, but it is slanted by their perspective and/or experience). Then you think about it from their point of view, and weigh your options, while taking others' feedback in the same way and then ultimately deciding on your own merits and opinion as the people with the final say.

A quick example... let's say someone posts saying they're frustrated by "how slow it is to level in this game." They make a thread, saying "It takes 300 hours to get to veteran rank 1!". This isn't true for more than a tiny fraction of a percent of the playerbase. It isn't a lie, either, though. It probably indeed took them around that timespan (Why would they exaggerate? Even if they did, their opinion is genuine that they felt it took too long).

However, you would need to take any balance requests made in that kind of post by weighing the likeliest level of depth a poster stating this might have, and what they would have the most experience playing with in the game (statistically, it's likeliest that they would be a slower-going person that enjoys more exploration, socialization, and taking everything in, rather than theorycrafting with an Excel spreadsheet windowed alongside an R-serve and an automated data logger below, crunching the numbers of every last little detail).

Cliche as it is... "it's not that simple." You can't make a game by commitee, for the same reason the saying "too many cooks spoil the broth" is an enduring truism. "The community thinks" is an ambiguous thing to relate from any one source.

And my point is that it's a very unpopular thing. Just because someone hasn't been paying attention to exactly how unpopular it is doesn't make it any less so. More importantly they keep saying they are going to remove them. Yet they instead keep adding to them. This is very confusing to us and ZOS has already shown they lie and cannot be trusted. We are letting them know in no uncertain terms that as paying customers we have a limit to how much we are going to tolerate.

Says who? You sure dont speak for everyone. That's his point!

michaelb14a_ESO2

Paradox wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

If 5 years is too long then what isn't too long? Is 1 year enough for your mythical WOW guild? I've been on XBox for a month. Is that too long? But what about people that get it at Christmas? How will they ever compete?

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

At its current rate, people with be at 3600 by the end of next year, if they continue to grind. People will be ahead of you by so far that you won't have a chance in hell in PvP or on the leaderboards in PvE.

The operative word there is "current rate". Do you really think that the current rate will never change? It's already been stated that they are increasing xp rewards by 50-200% depending on the activity/location. This means that had you not earned a single CP point prior to that adjustment, it will take HALF as much time achieve 3600 CP's as someone who did prior to the change.

Where is the problem?

eventide03b14a_ESO

Smiteye wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I'm in the community. I don't hate veteran ranks. My 5 friends I play with don't hate them. I've never heard anyone in my 150+ person PVP guild complain about them. What I have heard are 2 dozen angry people I've never met try and speak for me on a message board that encompasses only about 1 tenth of 1 percent of the game's audience. If anything the "attorneyatlaw" has been completely on point with my views and the views of my peers.

The forums do represent people's views... but as you pointed out, they aren't representative of everyone's views. Reddit isn't. Nor are in-game guild chats. Zone chats alone, don't either. Even focused feedback meetings held, fail to encompass everything. You can't make a game by democracy. Heck, even real-world nations like the USA (my home, and birthplace of course) are technically republics. As a decision-maker, which is what ZOS is for their game here, all the feedback you can get has to be taken into account, as well as weighed both by its factual accuracy when statements are made and any opinion-oriented bias (generally not purposeful, even, but because someone says what they really think, but it is slanted by their perspective and/or experience). Then you think about it from their point of view, and weigh your options, while taking others' feedback in the same way and then ultimately deciding on your own merits and opinion as the people with the final say.

A quick example... let's say someone posts saying they're frustrated by "how slow it is to level in this game." They make a thread, saying "It takes 300 hours to get to veteran rank 1!". This isn't true for more than a tiny fraction of a percent of the playerbase. It isn't a lie, either, though. It probably indeed took them around that timespan (Why would they exaggerate? Even if they did, their opinion is genuine that they felt it took too long).

However, you would need to take any balance requests made in that kind of post by weighing the likeliest level of depth a poster stating this might have, and what they would have the most experience playing with in the game (statistically, it's likeliest that they would be a slower-going person that enjoys more exploration, socialization, and taking everything in, rather than theorycrafting with an Excel spreadsheet windowed alongside an R-serve and an automated data logger below, crunching the numbers of every last little detail).

Cliche as it is... "it's not that simple." You can't make a game by commitee, for the same reason the saying "too many cooks spoil the broth" is an enduring truism. "The community thinks" is an ambiguous thing to relate from any one source.

And my point is that it's a very unpopular thing. Just because someone hasn't been paying attention to exactly how unpopular it is doesn't make it any less so. More importantly they keep saying they are going to remove them. Yet they instead keep adding to them. This is very confusing to us and ZOS has already shown they lie and cannot be trusted. We are letting them know in no uncertain terms that as paying customers we have a limit to how much we are going to tolerate.

Says who? You sure dont speak for everyone. That's his point!

I pasted a whole bunch of links before I got tired of copy and pasting. It's not my fault you haven't bothered to keep up with it. The point is moot anyway since they said they are removing it. If they decide not at least we would understand why they keep raising it. In the meantime are we supposed to get new gear and spend hundreds of thousands of gold improving it only for them to reduce the ranks? See, it's hard to plan these things when you're being jerked around.

ragespell

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Paradox wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

If 5 years is too long then what isn't too long? Is 1 year enough for your mythical WOW guild? I've been on XBox for a month. Is that too long? But what about people that get it at Christmas? How will they ever compete?

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

At its current rate, people with be at 3600 by the end of next year, if they continue to grind. People will be ahead of you by so far that you won't have a chance in hell in PvP or on the leaderboards in PvE.

But you continue to mock people. Mock away and provide no feedback. That's helping the discussion.

Then I'll catch up to them next year. That's the point. There is a finite number of champion points. Eventually everyone could get there. Besides, only the first few hundred really matter. The last 3000 points are all for abilities that either require multiple things happening first (block 3 times then...) or counteract each other (enjoy those light armor passives you can't use when in heavy armor).

Stop using hyperbole and I'll stop mocking you for doing it. Also, this is probably my 20th reply, most of which have been very detailed. If you think I've provided no feedback you're just wrong. You might not agree with it but it's there.

Lastly, if I'm not getting destroyed right now in veteran PVP with a non-get what makes you think I'll be destroyed in the upcoming months after I've continued to rank up my character.

The system is not broke. Some of you just aren't all that good. It's ok. Just continue standing in red.

Maybe it's not broken, but it's not fair.
Because it's one progression that hasn't any reset. So one can stay ahead forever: all he has to do is having enough free time.
Not skill, just free time.
And if free time is the only requirement to progress, I say it is fair that ZOS give the opportunity to buy CP with money.
Why in this game free time should be considered an asset and not money?

Sorry for my bad english

wraithguknub18_ESO

IF they didnt waste so much time trying to get the console version working maybe they would have time to make new content. fix things etc etc etc.

I understand its a business but you still have to try at least somewhat to make your customers happy and it seems the console version is all that matters.

Dont get me wrong I could be wrong. IMO im not.

I WANT this game to succeed so bad.

You know what I was going to type more but why bother. Others have said what I feel and thats all that matters. Now lets hope that the Dev's do what they say they do and actually listen to the players.

This increase to V16 is just a knee jerk reaction to the lack of content people are feeling.

Imagine what this game couldve been if all the hours spent on the console version had of gone into game development. Yes I know dare to dream

michaelb14a_ESO2

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

All the people trying to pin the blame on the 'entitlement culture' are missing the point entirely. This is about encouraging new blood to the game now and in the future. Here's a scenario:

PvE Guild from WoW wants to try another game. Guild Leader: "How about ESO? They've got leader boards right?". Guild Member: "nah, they've got that champion system thing, we'll never catch up".

And they will NEVER catch up, if guilds like Hodor for example continue to grind CP everyday in the meantime. And even if Hodor stopped for a year, it'd still take the new guild a year of grinding CP to get close to Hodor's times on the leader boards. And people will bang on about skill>CP, well if CP has no impact, why would these high end PvE guilds be asking for a minimum CP amount to join them now? Of course they make a difference.

Its totally understandable that if you don't play this game competitively, the CP system makes no impact to you. You might even enjoy seeing that vertical progression, even though it makes next to no difference to your game play. But for those that do play the game competitively, it makes a difference. Whether it be PvE or PvP, hence why this topic was started.

A simple solution would be to remove the parts of the CP system that affect combat effectiveness. Replace them with non essential perks that the less competitive gamer would appreciate more, unique emotes to unlock or something, I dunno. The competitive players will be be happy also cause they won't see themselves or others run away with an advantage based on how often you can afford to grind. Back to my original example, that WoW guild can now join ESO and give those leader boards a shot right after reaching endgame. Surely thats what ESO wants long term, more people playing the game.

But this is probably all falling on deaf ears because more likely then not, this CP gap has been carefully engineered to encourage xp pot purchases. Pretty simple business plan there.

One more time. There is MAX on CP. Your only issue is it takes a long time to get to...

Okay, I'll edit my scenario:
PvE Guild from WoW wants to try another game. Guild Leader: "How about ESO? They've got leader boards right?". Guild Member: "nah, they've got that champion system thing, we'll take 5 years to catch up".

Better? That'll sure offer them encouragement to join.

YES! Because the solutions are totally different. The goal then is to SHORTTEN that grossly overexaggerated "5 years".

Add even more and fun ways to gain exp
Give MORE exp --- which is confirmed coming.
Add exp granting content....

The problem is those railing against the CP system are focusing on the destination, NOT the journey... which is where the problem is.

There is no "fundamental" design problem with the CP system. In fact there is nothing wrong with the "system" at all. It's quite ordinary. So stop the hyperbole, and start asking the right questions.

And current top PvE guilds will continue to use all those extra mechanics you listed too. So what you're saying is, if new guilds want to compete on the leader boards in PvE, they've not only got to get to end game, they got to mindlessly grind whatever content gives the most xp (probably for a year minimum at least, likely more), JUST to get to the point they want to be, i.e. on a competitive level with the current top guilds. Sorry, but if you don't see that as a HUGE barrier to entry on this game, you can't be reasoned with.

No, those existing "top comptitive" PVE guilds wouldn't be using those same mechanics since they would already be at "end game" (capped CP). Sooooo.... where is this barrier? The fact a competitive guild would have to spend ANY amount of time getting to end game? In order to be... COMPETITIVE?

So that IS what you're saying, lol. Any new guild that comes to ESO has got to get to end game, AND get to 3600 CP cap to have a shot at the leaderboards. The barrier is years of grinding. Unless ZoS intends to include mechanics that reduce the 3600 CP grind to the space of a few months, they won't even bother starting, they'll find another game. How long does it take to reach endgame and be competitive in other MMOs? A month or two? Why would someone join ESO?

Anyway, I put this example here because some guy from ZoS said he's lurking. They know the problem, hopefully they're a little brighter than some on here and can find a solution.

So you prove my point. Your issue isn't the system, it's HOW LONG IT TAKES.

One more time. There is MAX on CP. Your only issue is it takes a long time to get to get there.

Did you even read my comments you're quoting? Reading comprehension, lol.

Attorneyatlawl

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

In the meantime are we supposed to get new gear and spend hundreds of thousands of gold improving it only for them to reduce the ranks? See, it's hard to plan these things when you're being jerked around.

That's up to you. I'd look at the actual facts before doing that, for simply upgrading the levels of stuff you already own, though...



A lot of people ran out to upgrade for that, too... I don't know about you, but personally it would be dead last on my priority list for what to spend my gold on . I'd spend my time on something more productive, like making sure I stretched my fingers briefly before a big fight so they won't cramp and slow down my keypresses. A tenth of a second from that would be hundreds of times more devastating to my DPS... I say that as an absolutely, one-hundred-percent serious statement. Going from say, 18000 to 18018 DPS at a cost of several hundred thousand gold is pointless. You'd be better served continuing to practice and/or refine your play and build/gear loadout, and checking out how new items could fit in, than chasing after another 4 magicka every two seconds, 6 spell power rating, and 33 magicka. *shrug*

wraithguknub18_ESO

I hear by next year they are raising the vet level to 100

Tonnopesce

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

In the meantime are we supposed to get new gear and spend hundreds of thousands of gold improving it only for them to reduce the ranks? See, it's hard to plan these things when you're being jerked around.

That's up to you. I'd look at the actual facts before doing that, for simply upgrading the levels of stuff you already own, though...



A lot of people ran out to upgrade for that, too... I don't know about you, but personally it would be dead last on my priority list for what to spend my gold on . I'd spend my time on something more productive, like making sure I stretched my fingers briefly before a big fight so they won't cramp and slow down my keypresses. A tenth of a second from that would be hundreds of times more devastating to my DPS... I say that as an absolutely, one-hundred-percent serious statement. Going from say, 18000 to 18018 DPS at a cost of several hundred thousand gold is pointless. You'd be better served continuing to practice and/or refine your play and build/gear loadout, and checking out how new items could fit in, than chasing after another 4 magicka every two seconds, 6 spell power rating, and 33 magicka. *shrug*

People will die for that +6 spell damage.

I belive we will get new 5 pcs sets that will force people to re-do their build, post an existing set only upgraded to vr 16 is pointless imho

Attorneyatlawl

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

In the meantime are we supposed to get new gear and spend hundreds of thousands of gold improving it only for them to reduce the ranks? See, it's hard to plan these things when you're being jerked around.

That's up to you. I'd look at the actual facts before doing that, for simply upgrading the levels of stuff you already own, though...



A lot of people ran out to upgrade for that, too... I don't know about you, but personally it would be dead last on my priority list for what to spend my gold on . I'd spend my time on something more productive, like making sure I stretched my fingers briefly before a big fight so they won't cramp and slow down my keypresses. A tenth of a second from that would be hundreds of times more devastating to my DPS... I say that as an absolutely, one-hundred-percent serious statement. Going from say, 18000 to 18018 DPS at a cost of several hundred thousand gold is pointless. You'd be better served continuing to practice and/or refine your play and build/gear loadout, and checking out how new items could fit in, than chasing after another 4 magicka every two seconds, 6 spell power rating, and 33 magicka. *shrug*

People will die for that +6 spell damage.

I belive we will get new 5 pcs sets that will force people to re-do their build, post an existing set only upgraded to vr 16 is pointless imho

Oh, they do. Just because something's a popular and commonplace thing though hardly makes it the optimal approach . And as far as new sets, that's exactly what I just had said myself ... new gear that's introduced may very well make you not want to stay using your current stuff, anyway. However, the "vertical progression power gap" that "forces" you to re-make your gear is a red herring.

pmn100b16_ESO

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

All the people trying to pin the blame on the 'entitlement culture' are missing the point entirely. This is about encouraging new blood to the game now and in the future. Here's a scenario:

PvE Guild from WoW wants to try another game. Guild Leader: "How about ESO? They've got leader boards right?". Guild Member: "nah, they've got that champion system thing, we'll never catch up".

And they will NEVER catch up, if guilds like Hodor for example continue to grind CP everyday in the meantime. And even if Hodor stopped for a year, it'd still take the new guild a year of grinding CP to get close to Hodor's times on the leader boards. And people will bang on about skill>CP, well if CP has no impact, why would these high end PvE guilds be asking for a minimum CP amount to join them now? Of course they make a difference.

Its totally understandable that if you don't play this game competitively, the CP system makes no impact to you. You might even enjoy seeing that vertical progression, even though it makes next to no difference to your game play. But for those that do play the game competitively, it makes a difference. Whether it be PvE or PvP, hence why this topic was started.

A simple solution would be to remove the parts of the CP system that affect combat effectiveness. Replace them with non essential perks that the less competitive gamer would appreciate more, unique emotes to unlock or something, I dunno. The competitive players will be be happy also cause they won't see themselves or others run away with an advantage based on how often you can afford to grind. Back to my original example, that WoW guild can now join ESO and give those leader boards a shot right after reaching endgame. Surely thats what ESO wants long term, more people playing the game.

But this is probably all falling on deaf ears because more likely then not, this CP gap has been carefully engineered to encourage xp pot purchases. Pretty simple business plan there.

One more time. There is MAX on CP. Your only issue is it takes a long time to get to...

Okay, I'll edit my scenario:
PvE Guild from WoW wants to try another game. Guild Leader: "How about ESO? They've got leader boards right?". Guild Member: "nah, they've got that champion system thing, we'll take 5 years to catch up".

Better? That'll sure offer them encouragement to join.

YES! Because the solutions are totally different. The goal then is to SHORTTEN that grossly overexaggerated "5 years".

Add even more and fun ways to gain exp
Give MORE exp --- which is confirmed coming.
Add exp granting content....

The problem is those railing against the CP system are focusing on the destination, NOT the journey... which is where the problem is.

There is no "fundamental" design problem with the CP system. In fact there is nothing wrong with the "system" at all. It's quite ordinary. So stop the hyperbole, and start asking the right questions.

And current top PvE guilds will continue to use all those extra mechanics you listed too. So what you're saying is, if new guilds want to compete on the leader boards in PvE, they've not only got to get to end game, they got to mindlessly grind whatever content gives the most xp (probably for a year minimum at least, likely more), JUST to get to the point they want to be, i.e. on a competitive level with the current top guilds. Sorry, but if you don't see that as a HUGE barrier to entry on this game, you can't be reasoned with.

No, those existing "top comptitive" PVE guilds wouldn't be using those same mechanics since they would already be at "end game" (capped CP). Sooooo.... where is this barrier? The fact a competitive guild would have to spend ANY amount of time getting to end game? In order to be... COMPETITIVE?

So that IS what you're saying, lol. Any new guild that comes to ESO has got to get to end game, AND get to 3600 CP cap to have a shot at the leaderboards. The barrier is years of grinding. Unless ZoS intends to include mechanics that reduce the 3600 CP grind to the space of a few months, they won't even bother starting, they'll find another game. How long does it take to reach endgame and be competitive in other MMOs? A month or two? Why would someone join ESO?

Anyway, I put this example here because some guy from ZoS said he's lurking. They know the problem, hopefully they're a little brighter than some on here and can find a solution.

So you prove my point. Your issue isn't the system, it's HOW LONG IT TAKES.

One more time. There is MAX on CP. Your only issue is it takes a long time to get to get there.

Did you even read my comments you're quoting? Reading comprehension, lol.

Yes its about how long it takes. Believe it or not people don't want to spend a year or more grinding just to get to the game they actually want to play. You're seriously telling new players to play the game to end game (chore enough to vet14, no v16), and then also grind out 3600 CP points, THEN you can be on a par and compete for the leader boards. You don't see a problem with this. wow

Forget reading comprehension, you just need some comprehension to realise that is not good business practice. People will not grind that much, they'll simply pick another game. I'm pretty sure that isn't what ZoS wants to happen.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

In the meantime are we supposed to get new gear and spend hundreds of thousands of gold improving it only for them to reduce the ranks? See, it's hard to plan these things when you're being jerked around.

That's up to you. I'd look at the actual facts before doing that, for simply upgrading the levels of stuff you already own, though...



A lot of people ran out to upgrade for that, too... I don't know about you, but personally it would be dead last on my priority list for what to spend my gold on . I'd spend my time on something more productive, like making sure I stretched my fingers briefly before a big fight so they won't cramp and slow down my keypresses. A tenth of a second from that would be hundreds of times more devastating to my DPS... I say that as an absolutely, one-hundred-percent serious statement. Going from say, 18000 to 18018 DPS at a cost of several hundred thousand gold is pointless. You'd be better served continuing to practice and/or refine your play and build/gear loadout, and checking out how new items could fit in, than chasing after another 4 magicka every two seconds, 6 spell power rating, and 33 magicka. *shrug*

If it doesn't matter why are they raising the cap? Your screenshot does little to prove anything really. Go in the game and find two items right now that are only different by two levels and see if they are the same. Besides, much of the CP is based on percentages. If I have two items 1 V14 that increases magikca by 800 and the V16 increases the magicka by 824 and I add 10% then V14 is 880 and the V16 is 906. You can't pretend like that's not a noticeable difference especially when you take into account other abilities like Inner Light that also add a percentage to this stat. I'm sure you can follow this logic. We are not talking about a single item we are talking about the sum total and what that means for these percentage gains.

Tonnopesce

Double post

THEDKEXPERIENCE

A sincere apology to anyone I might have angered with my posts. I'm not trolling and I'm been actively following this game's development for 3 years at least. I just do not agree with the original poster on dozens of levels and truly do not believe many of these complaints are echoed across the vast majority of the ESO community.

For example the PVP balance. Works fine for me. Works fine for the people I know, except for my one buddy who keeps standing in red and putting all his points into stamina. He swears people are hacked and cheating when in reality he just isn't that good.

Tonnopesce

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

In the meantime are we supposed to get new gear and spend hundreds of thousands of gold improving it only for them to reduce the ranks? See, it's hard to plan these things when you're being jerked around.

That's up to you. I'd look at the actual facts before doing that, for simply upgrading the levels of stuff you already own, though...



A lot of people ran out to upgrade for that, too... I don't know about you, but personally it would be dead last on my priority list for what to spend my gold on . I'd spend my time on something more productive, like making sure I stretched my fingers briefly before a big fight so they won't cramp and slow down my keypresses. A tenth of a second from that would be hundreds of times more devastating to my DPS... I say that as an absolutely, one-hundred-percent serious statement. Going from say, 18000 to 18018 DPS at a cost of several hundred thousand gold is pointless. You'd be better served continuing to practice and/or refine your play and build/gear loadout, and checking out how new items could fit in, than chasing after another 4 magicka every two seconds, 6 spell power rating, and 33 magicka. *shrug*

People will die for that +6 spell damage.

I belive we will get new 5 pcs sets that will force people to re-do their build, post an existing set only upgraded to vr 16 is pointless imho

Oh, they do. Just because something's a popular and commonplace thing though hardly makes it the optimal approach . And as far as new sets, that's exactly what I just had said myself ... new gear that's introduced may very well make you not want to stay using your current stuff, anyway. However, the "vertical progression power gap" that "forces" you to re-make your gear is a red herring.

Gear will always be somehow a progression made in order to" force" you to buy the new dlc but personally i will not do so in order to compete with the 1k cp grinder, hell i want to win but if sometimes i lose is not a big deal, and onestly what cost to me avoid players that are stonger ( by skills and by numbers) than me? Nothing

What it was... Track me down on cyrodiil ! or someting like this.

eventide03b14a_ESO

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

In the meantime are we supposed to get new gear and spend hundreds of thousands of gold improving it only for them to reduce the ranks? See, it's hard to plan these things when you're being jerked around.

That's up to you. I'd look at the actual facts before doing that, for simply upgrading the levels of stuff you already own, though...



A lot of people ran out to upgrade for that, too... I don't know about you, but personally it would be dead last on my priority list for what to spend my gold on . I'd spend my time on something more productive, like making sure I stretched my fingers briefly before a big fight so they won't cramp and slow down my keypresses. A tenth of a second from that would be hundreds of times more devastating to my DPS... I say that as an absolutely, one-hundred-percent serious statement. Going from say, 18000 to 18018 DPS at a cost of several hundred thousand gold is pointless. You'd be better served continuing to practice and/or refine your play and build/gear loadout, and checking out how new items could fit in, than chasing after another 4 magicka every two seconds, 6 spell power rating, and 33 magicka. *shrug*

If it doesn't matter why are they raising the cap? Your screenshot does little to prove anything really. Go in the game and find two items right now that are only different by two levels and see if they are the same. Besides, much of the CP is based on percentages. If I have two items 1 V14 that increases magikca by 800 and the V16 increases the magicka by 824 and I add 10% then V14 is 880 and the V16 is 906. You can't pretend like that's not a noticeable difference especially when you take into account other abilities like Inner Light that also add a percentage to this stat. I'm sure you can follow this logic. We are not talking about a single item we are talking about the sum total and what that means for these percentage gains.

Here I did it for you, just now. Not 6 months ago, just now. Now tell me there isn't a difference.



Not just magicka, spell damage and every other stat that makes this set worthwhile.

michaelb14a_ESO2

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

All the people trying to pin the blame on the 'entitlement culture' are missing the point entirely. This is about encouraging new blood to the game now and in the future. Here's a scenario:

PvE Guild from WoW wants to try another game. Guild Leader: "How about ESO? They've got leader boards right?". Guild Member: "nah, they've got that champion system thing, we'll never catch up".

And they will NEVER catch up, if guilds like Hodor for example continue to grind CP everyday in the meantime. And even if Hodor stopped for a year, it'd still take the new guild a year of grinding CP to get close to Hodor's times on the leader boards. And people will bang on about skill>CP, well if CP has no impact, why would these high end PvE guilds be asking for a minimum CP amount to join them now? Of course they make a difference.

Its totally understandable that if you don't play this game competitively, the CP system makes no impact to you. You might even enjoy seeing that vertical progression, even though it makes next to no difference to your game play. But for those that do play the game competitively, it makes a difference. Whether it be PvE or PvP, hence why this topic was started.

A simple solution would be to remove the parts of the CP system that affect combat effectiveness. Replace them with non essential perks that the less competitive gamer would appreciate more, unique emotes to unlock or something, I dunno. The competitive players will be be happy also cause they won't see themselves or others run away with an advantage based on how often you can afford to grind. Back to my original example, that WoW guild can now join ESO and give those leader boards a shot right after reaching endgame. Surely thats what ESO wants long term, more people playing the game.

But this is probably all falling on deaf ears because more likely then not, this CP gap has been carefully engineered to encourage xp pot purchases. Pretty simple business plan there.

One more time. There is MAX on CP. Your only issue is it takes a long time to get to...

Okay, I'll edit my scenario:
PvE Guild from WoW wants to try another game. Guild Leader: "How about ESO? They've got leader boards right?". Guild Member: "nah, they've got that champion system thing, we'll take 5 years to catch up".

Better? That'll sure offer them encouragement to join.

YES! Because the solutions are totally different. The goal then is to SHORTTEN that grossly overexaggerated "5 years".

Add even more and fun ways to gain exp
Give MORE exp --- which is confirmed coming.
Add exp granting content....

The problem is those railing against the CP system are focusing on the destination, NOT the journey... which is where the problem is.

There is no "fundamental" design problem with the CP system. In fact there is nothing wrong with the "system" at all. It's quite ordinary. So stop the hyperbole, and start asking the right questions.

And current top PvE guilds will continue to use all those extra mechanics you listed too. So what you're saying is, if new guilds want to compete on the leader boards in PvE, they've not only got to get to end game, they got to mindlessly grind whatever content gives the most xp (probably for a year minimum at least, likely more), JUST to get to the point they want to be, i.e. on a competitive level with the current top guilds. Sorry, but if you don't see that as a HUGE barrier to entry on this game, you can't be reasoned with.

No, those existing "top comptitive" PVE guilds wouldn't be using those same mechanics since they would already be at "end game" (capped CP). Sooooo.... where is this barrier? The fact a competitive guild would have to spend ANY amount of time getting to end game? In order to be... COMPETITIVE?

So that IS what you're saying, lol. Any new guild that comes to ESO has got to get to end game, AND get to 3600 CP cap to have a shot at the leaderboards. The barrier is years of grinding. Unless ZoS intends to include mechanics that reduce the 3600 CP grind to the space of a few months, they won't even bother starting, they'll find another game. How long does it take to reach endgame and be competitive in other MMOs? A month or two? Why would someone join ESO?

Anyway, I put this example here because some guy from ZoS said he's lurking. They know the problem, hopefully they're a little brighter than some on here and can find a solution.

So you prove my point. Your issue isn't the system, it's HOW LONG IT TAKES.

One more time. There is MAX on CP. Your only issue is it takes a long time to get to get there.

Did you even read my comments you're quoting? Reading comprehension, lol.

Yes its about how long it takes. Believe it or not people don't want to spend a year or more grinding just to get to the game they actually want to play. You're seriously telling new players to play the game to end game (chore enough to vet14, no v16), and then also grind out 3600 CP points, THEN you can be on a par and compete for the leader boards. You don't see a problem with this. wow.

No, never said that. You literally just made that up. Please point out where said any of that. I never even mentioned how long it SHOULD take. All I did was point out you (and others) erroneously taking issue and targeting the CP system design itself. You go so far as you advocate for the removal of parts, progression pieces and for reduction in overall effectiveness. Rather drastic, considering the only issue you have managed take with it is...how long it takes to get there.

Everything you have posted is hyperbole. Taking the type of drastic overarching changes you suggest, highlights just how misinformed and misguided on the system itself, its impact and its purpose you are. Your words also tellingly show that you don't understand why even YOU don't like it. There is way too much band-wagging going on, especially since ZOS has already said they are raising XP rates quite drastically, effectively shortening the time 1-3600 CP takes exponentially. Not enough? Provide feedback that it's taking too long, geez.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

"Yes its about how long it takes. Believe it or not people don't want to spend a year or more grinding just to get to the game they actually want to play. You're seriously telling new players to play the game to end game (chore enough to vet14, no v16), and then also grind out 3600 CP points, THEN you can be on a par and compete for the leader boards. You don't see a problem with this. wow"

I'm sure Marcus Marriota wants to play in the Super Bowl this year. Doesn't mean it's going to happen without working to get there first. Also, Tom Brady has way too many champion points, and even buffed up his TE slot using the 25% Gronkowski passive. He doesn't deserve to be that far ahead of Marcus! Marriota may as well quit now.

Not everyone should be on the leaderboard. It's a leaderboard. Do I begrudge KM Cold for dominating Chillrend? No. Rather, I've made sure to watch what he does on the battlefield and copy it to the best of my abilities.

ch.ris317b14_ESO

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

"Yes its about how long it takes. Believe it or not people don't want to spend a year or more grinding just to get to the game they actually want to play. You're seriously telling new players to play the game to end game (chore enough to vet14, no v16), and then also grind out 3600 CP points, THEN you can be on a par and compete for the leader boards. You don't see a problem with this. wow"

I'm sure Marcus Marriota wants to play in the Super Bowl this year. Doesn't mean it's going to happen without working to get there first. Also, Tom Brady has way too many champion points, and even buffed up his TE slot using the 25% Gronkowski passive. He doesn't deserve to be that far ahead of Marcus! Marriota may as well quit now.

Not everyone should be on the leaderboard. It's a leaderboard. Do I begrudge KM Cold for dominating Chillrend? No. Rather, I've made sure to watch what he does on the battlefield and copy it to the best of my abilities.

Leaderboards in MMOs are not leader boards.... they are grinder boards.

True leaderboards, true competition, cannot be had with a differential in quality of equipment... this is why EVERY sport from NASCAR to Lacross standardizes equipment.

Your 'skill' means you have more patience to stare at a screen than 99% of humanity.

BigInGlenumbra

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

"Yes its about how long it takes. Believe it or not people don't want to spend a year or more grinding just to get to the game they actually want to play. You're seriously telling new players to play the game to end game (chore enough to vet14, no v16), and then also grind out 3600 CP points, THEN you can be on a par and compete for the leader boards. You don't see a problem with this. wow"

I'm sure Marcus Marriota wants to play in the Super Bowl this year. Doesn't mean it's going to happen without working to get there first. Also, Tom Brady has way too many champion points, and even buffed up his TE slot using the 25% Gronkowski passive. He doesn't deserve to be that far ahead of Marcus! Marriota may as well quit now.

Not everyone should be on the leaderboard. It's a leaderboard. Do I begrudge KM Cold for dominating Chillrend? No. Rather, I've made sure to watch what he does on the battlefield and copy it to the best of my abilities.

Lmao how are you even comparing people wanting to have a fun time to rigorously training as a part of your lifestyle to succeed in the NFL?

Buddy I don't want to tear my muscles, get a couple hernias, 4 injuries, and drink a gallon of dried damn oats every morning and night just so I can compete with a number of potentially autistic manchildren who spent more than 4 hours a day grinding the same areas and the same monsters.

Don't even dare compare the training for the NFL to a fun game ever again.

ch.ris317b14_ESO

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

"Yes its about how long it takes. Believe it or not people don't want to spend a year or more grinding just to get to the game they actually want to play. You're seriously telling new players to play the game to end game (chore enough to vet14, no v16), and then also grind out 3600 CP points, THEN you can be on a par and compete for the leader boards. You don't see a problem with this. wow"

I'm sure Marcus Marriota wants to play in the Super Bowl this year. Doesn't mean it's going to happen without working to get there first. Also, Tom Brady has way too many champion points, and even buffed up his TE slot using the 25% Gronkowski passive. He doesn't deserve to be that far ahead of Marcus! Marriota may as well quit now.

Not everyone should be on the leaderboard. It's a leaderboard. Do I begrudge KM Cold for dominating Chillrend? No. Rather, I've made sure to watch what he does on the battlefield and copy it to the best of my abilities.

Go figure the elitist grinder would reference the cheatingest team in sports....

ch.ris317b14_ESO

BigInGlenumbra wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

"Yes its about how long it takes. Believe it or not people don't want to spend a year or more grinding just to get to the game they actually want to play. You're seriously telling new players to play the game to end game (chore enough to vet14, no v16), and then also grind out 3600 CP points, THEN you can be on a par and compete for the leader boards. You don't see a problem with this. wow"

I'm sure Marcus Marriota wants to play in the Super Bowl this year. Doesn't mean it's going to happen without working to get there first. Also, Tom Brady has way too many champion points, and even buffed up his TE slot using the 25% Gronkowski passive. He doesn't deserve to be that far ahead of Marcus! Marriota may as well quit now.

Not everyone should be on the leaderboard. It's a leaderboard. Do I begrudge KM Cold for dominating Chillrend? No. Rather, I've made sure to watch what he does on the battlefield and copy it to the best of my abilities.

Lmao how are you even comparing people wanting to have a fun time to rigorously training as a part of your lifestyle to succeed in the NFL?

Buddy I don't want to tear my muscles, get a couple hernias, 4 injuries, and drink a gallon of dried damn oats every morning and night just so I can compete with a number of potentially autistic manchildren who spent more than 4 hours a day grinding the same areas and the same monsters.

Don't even dare compare the training for the NFL to a fun game ever again.

They usually compare it to combat... then it gets real funny when my fellow "IRL" veterans start making fun of computer geeks looking for authentic combat on a video game....

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is a great thread with a lot of opinions; please don't start making personal attacks, and keep it on topic and constructive. Thanks, guys.

Bromburak

wraithguknub18_ESO wrote: »

This increase to V16 is just a knee jerk reaction to the lack of content people are feeling.

Yes and no, its a necessary step before dropping Veteran levels on a long term.
I know this sounds weird and many of us don't understand why ZOS is doing this but their plan is to change the whole system without Veteranlevels and of course the workload required for this is huge and will take a very long time.

Filling the time between allows them to release more content like IC and technically its easier to add 2 levels than a full re-itemization on everything without Vetlevels until the final goal is done.

However, one side effect with the upcoming changes is that it has an unexpected impact on champion points too.
When players think they have implemented CPs originally so that we can work on something in endgame to improve our characters its true but the upcoming XP Bonus for V 16 raise was not planned when CPs have been added. That's what its basically all about, V14-V16 is nothing more than a time filler and workaround and they didn't calculate all the side effects coming with it.

Robbmrp

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thank you, everyone, for taking the time to give us your feedback, and for keeping it constructive. We'll be sure to pass this along to the appropriate teams to read over.

@ZOS_GinaBruno, what good does this really do to pass on? The things that @Deltia is mentioning isn't anything new with the Champion System that the MAJORITY of the player base has been screaming about since March 2nd 2015....

It clearly doesn't look like anyone over there really cares about anything other than selling XP Pots in the Crown store now. Why else would new VR levels have been added to "supposedly" be removed later?

Just as many others have mentioned time and time again, VR levels aren't going anywhere.....