The Day ESO Dies

TheEmoVampire

so because people play the game, they should be as powerful as a lv 1 newbie? why is everyone complaining about people with more game time being more powerful? I don't see the problem. and as far as veteran ranks go, i don't see the problem with those either! I mean boo hoo welcome to TESOTU one of the very few games you actually have to play to get any where, that's what games are for, progression. you will be taking a lot of time to get to VR 14 soon to be 16 because your grinding, but here's a newsflash this is not Destiny, you have to play the game to progress (as in do quest pvp that stuff, not sit around in the same area for 600 hours killing the same enemies over and over and again, no wonder ya'll don't like playing the game).

Sallington

TheEmoVampire wrote: »

so because people play the game, they should be as powerful as a lv 1 newbie? why is everyone complaining about people with more game time being more powerful? I don't see the problem. and as far as veteran ranks go, i don't see the problem with those either! I mean boo hoo welcome to TESOTU one of the very few games you actually have to play to get any where, that's what games are for, progression. you will be taking a lot of time to get to VR 14 soon to be 16 because your grinding, but here's a newsflash this is not Destiny, you have to play the game to progress (as in do quest pvp that stuff, not sit around in the same area for 600 hours killing the same enemies over and over and again, no wonder ya'll don't like playing the game).

The problem is that the only type of progression in ESO is grinding CPs. Time spent grinding experience shouldn't be the only factor in "who is better than who".

BBSooner

I agree with the OP. The counter-intuitive approach to increasing the VR cap is alarming. They are either a) Increasing the cap without the intention of removing them while saying they still have plans on doing it (essentially lying), or b) Increasing the cap and still actively putting time towards removing the cap (essentially sending money/time on an unpopular game system they plan on phasing out, wasting resources).

The champion point catch up mechanic ZOS develops (if one is developed) is likely just going to be in the form of some Cash Shop item, sadly.

Djeriko

I have been playing the game for as long as Deltia and the other vet players have but because I have a life and a job, I have yet to get even a single toon to vet 14. That's also including never deleting a toon once I created it. In the end I only plan on having 4 that I play actively (one for each class). So with only a couple hours to play on my work days and maybe a few hours on my off days, it amounts to a casual players time. Even so, the change to vet 16 won't effect me because I have yet to reach the vet 14 levels which is probably what ZOS is thinking. Since most of the player base is now pretty much new players, the level cap isn't even visible to them so its not a problem. Personally when I heard that getting rid of vet levels was a plan, I considered the thought of it and said its pretty much back tracking. But with the champion system it seems like some what of a bandage on a broken leg. So here's my take on the champion system and the new vet levels.

ZOS is not ready to remove the new levels but they want to add more content. New content means new quests which means new XP to gain, new items, etc. They want to add the items easily by just making them vet 15-16 because if they added them to vet 14, they would have to overhaul the item system and they aren't ready for that. So easy solution in their eyes is to add levels, make the new items higher level stats, put them in the new content and release us onto the world. We gain more CP's as we gain more experience and when they are finally able to delete vet levels, we get scaled back but are still powerful because of the CP's that we can sustain our own without having a level increase as it were.

Not perfect but it's a start. My only concern about removing vet levels is this, when vet levels get removed, do the vet characters lose those stat points and skill points earned by the vet level increases? if they keep them, how do they logically say for a player who has never made it to vet level (a new player) earns those same stat increases and skill points after reaching level 50? Those points get awarded at the level marks and once they are removed, how can a player earn them?

Cherryblossom

Djeriko wrote: »

My only concern about removing vet levels is this, when vet levels get removed, do the vet characters lose those stat points and skill points earned by the vet level increases? if they keep them, how do they logically say for a player who has never made it to vet level (a new player) earns those same stat increases and skill points after reaching level 50? Those points get awarded at the level marks and once they are removed, how can a player earn them?

I think you have hit the Nail on the head for why ZOS is struggling, there is already so much invested in the Vet Levels, with Skill points, Stats and equipment it's too hard to get their heads round how to remove, in a way that doesn't destroy the hard work done by the player base.

In my opinion the Vet Areas were lazy content, I personally wanted to do the different factions on separate Characters, not be forced to do 3 stories again and again and again and again.

CP points just make the whole thing even worse.

nathan_bri

meh

AzraelKrieg

Djeriko wrote: »

I have been playing the game for as long as Deltia and the other vet players have but because I have a life and a job, I have yet to get even a single toon to vet 14. That's also including never deleting a toon once I created it. In the end I only plan on having 4 that I play actively (one for each class). So with only a couple hours to play on my work days and maybe a few hours on my off days, it amounts to a casual players time. Even so, the change to vet 16 won't effect me because I have yet to reach the vet 14 levels which is probably what ZOS is thinking. Since most of the player base is now pretty much new players, the level cap isn't even visible to them so its not a problem. Personally when I heard that getting rid of vet levels was a plan, I considered the thought of it and said its pretty much back tracking. But with the champion system it seems like some what of a bandage on a broken leg. So here's my take on the champion system and the new vet levels.

ZOS is not ready to remove the new levels but they want to add more content. New content means new quests which means new XP to gain, new items, etc. They want to add the items easily by just making them vet 15-16 because if they added them to vet 14, they would have to overhaul the item system and they aren't ready for that. So easy solution in their eyes is to add levels, make the new items higher level stats, put them in the new content and release us onto the world. We gain more CP's as we gain more experience and when they are finally able to delete vet levels, we get scaled back but are still powerful because of the CP's that we can sustain our own without having a level increase as it were.

Not perfect but it's a start. My only concern about removing vet levels is this, when vet levels get removed, do the vet characters lose those stat points and skill points earned by the vet level increases? if they keep them, how do they logically say for a player who has never made it to vet level (a new player) earns those same stat increases and skill points after reaching level 50? Those points get awarded at the level marks and once they are removed, how can a player earn them?

It should be noted that prior to Update 5 vet ranks did not receive attributes and skill points when you levelled up. When update 5 was released, they were added and people had to respec. Taking them away would make a difference but considering the sheer number of skill points available and how the champion system works, removing them shouldn't be an issue.

nebuloss124

so your going to keep playing? /ignore by ZOS

nebuloss124

lets face it Deltias probably knows more about this game and how it works then most if not all players on ESO. What he has to say makes alot of sense i personally have been playing on ps4 and have been obssesed about getting as many champion points as i can. so in a few months i will just roll over everyone in pvp. its giving me a reason to keep logging on and playing for long hours. but then i started to think to myself maybe VR are the way to go instead of CP. But changing that now would make alot of people very angry. ZOS got themselves into a bad situation. I cant even think of how it can be fixed but in the mean time ill be grinding cp. love and thanks to deltias for everything he does

nebuloss124

Cherryblossom wrote: »

The simple fix for Vet levels would be to call it what it is!

Level 66

how would calling it a different name fix anything?

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Thank you Deltia for summing up so well all the things I wished to say and feel about this. You are a true Tamrielian...:)
Keep up the great job you do....

Ysne58

I have said this before a number of times. Allow players to start earning CPs at level 1 instead of Vr1. Granted they won't get that many points between 1 and 49. But it would make the players who do not have vet characters yet feel better.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober

Darkonflare15

nebuloss124 wrote: »

lets face it Deltias probably knows more about this game and how it works then most if not all players on ESO. What he has to say makes alot of sense i personally have been playing on ps4 and have been obssesed about getting as many champion points as i can. so in a few months i will just roll over everyone in pvp. its giving me a reason to keep logging on and playing for long hours. but then i started to think to myself maybe VR are the way to go instead of CP. But changing that now would make alot of people very angry. ZOS got themselves into a bad situation. I cant even think of how it can be fixed but in the mean time ill be grinding cp. love and thanks to deltias for everything he does

He also likes to jump the gun,complain, and get emotional about a changes and then calms down later on once he full understands the change. Examples, Forward camp removal, Buy to play, Xp pots, and the armchair developer discussion. I do not want to really follow anybody who gets mad and complain without fully understanding before making a decision. I like to make my judgement on my experiences in the game instead of most of these experiences from the "paragons" of ESO players. They have stated that there is new benefits added with this vet level increase. I will make my judgement base on more info that is suppose to come out next week.

smokes

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've been lurking here in this thread since Friday. Just wanted folks to know its not being ignored.

good to know

i will always maintain that cadwells is the root of the problem and if you really want to address grinders Vs everybody else, cadwells is where to start.

VR is not the problem
CP is problematic but easily fixed with a cap balanced to the current VR level.

Drazhar14

+1 for horizontal progression.

I feel that vertical progression is a lazy way to add "content" nor is it fun. No one wants to constantly grind to stay on top. Plus higher and higher stats just leads to greater imbalance in the game (making content below your level just get easier and easier and creating unreasonable gaps in PvP). I think once the veteran system gets removed, all max level gear should require level 50. New gear added to the game should just have new set bonuses and new racial styles.

Now to keep the current crafting system, there could be 4 tiers of level 50 gear. For example, to craft light armor Tier 1 would use Kresh Fiber, Tier 2 would use Ironthread, Tier 3 would use Silverweave, and Tier 4 would use Void cloth. Also, all 4 materials should appear in every level 50+ zone randomly, with tier 4 materials being the most rare to spawn. There could be additional requirements before players could equip each new tier of gear as well, such as having certain achievements or a certain level of champion points. In the case of champion points, nothing too high though. You awarded 70 champion points to v14 characters when the system went live, so perhaps Tier 4 gear could require 70 champion points to use. That being said, DO NOT add any more tiers in the future. ALTERNATIVELY, you could just lower the number of passives in each crafting line, get rid of Kresh Fiber-Silverweave, and just keep Void Cloth in the game with only 1 tier of level 50 gear.

As for the champion system, I think the first 360 points should require less experience to get so everyone can get some of those powerful passives quickly. There should be greater diminishing returns on the perks with 100 points so that they are more powerful at lower point investments and even less powerful as it gets closer to 100.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

RE: Deltia

He isn't even all that good at this game. What he is, is a guy with a website and Internet TV show who plays this game 14 hours a day. I'll give him credit where's it's due, he has done an invaluable job of keeping the community involved with his videos. Some of his ideas are great, but c'mon. He overreacts to everything; proclaims his builds to be ideal (causing many to think they are the only viable builds) and uses so many add-ons that a trained rabbit could solo a VR dungeon with them.

ZOS Lurker: Keep on doing what you are doing. The angry boards on here represent less than 1% of your audience. As someone who plays daily, but also holds a job 45 hours a week, I don't want to be the same as someone who put in 4000 hours last year. They should have more abilities regardless of how the are obtained. Focus your time on the glitches and DLC. Don't cater to people who think everyone should get a trophy.

Cap: Has anyone on here taken the time to read what all the champion abilities do? Once you get passed about 400 points the next 3200 barely matter. There are a bunch of abilities where you need to block 1-3 times first or do similar things before the champion ability happens. Anyone who can master the things needed to do to actually use everything correctly deserves every point the have.

VR16: Coming soon ... VR18, then VR20. Never in the history of anything has the number 14 been the top number. I'm stunned at how few people saw this coming.

Observant

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

RE: Deltia

He isn't even all that good at this game. What he is, is a guy with a website and Internet TV show who plays this game 14 hours a day. I'll give him credit where's it's due, he has done an invaluable job of keeping the community involved with his videos. Some of his ideas are great, but c'mon. He overreacts to everything; proclaims his builds to be ideal (causing many to think they are the only viable builds) and uses so many add-ons that a trained rabbit could solo a VR dungeon with them.

ZOS Lurker: Keep on doing what you are doing. The angry boards on here represent less than 1% of your audience. As someone who plays daily, but also holds a job 45 hours a week, I don't want to be the same as someone who put in 4000 hours last year. They should have more abilities regardless of how the are obtained. Focus your time on the glitches and DLC. Don't cater to people who think everyone should get a trophy.

Cap: Has anyone on here taken the time to read what all the champion abilities do? Once you get passed about 400 points the next 3200 barely matter. There are a bunch of abilities where you need to block 1-3 times first or do similar things before the champion ability happens. Anyone who can master the things needed to do to actually use everything correctly deserves every point the have.

VR16: Coming soon ... VR18, then VR20. Never in the history of anything has the number 14 been the top number. I'm stunned at how few people saw this coming.

You must be new.
Welcome.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Been around since PC Beta, PC launch, XBox Beta and now play daily on XBox. Still disagree with most everything. I've also watched, I believe, every video Deltia made up until last month. My other pseudonyms are THEDKEXPERIENCE and Farts-With-Purpose.

The only times I wasn't playing this game were November to May because my CPU blew up. I've been around the community since 2 years before launch. My ESO nerd credentials are fully up to date.

Rex-Umbra

I think ZOS should hire Deltia as the new CEO.

Bromburak

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

RE: Deltia

He isn't even all that good at this game. What he is, is a guy with a website and Internet TV show who plays this game 14 hours a day. I'll give him credit where's it's due, he has done an invaluable job of keeping the community involved with his videos.

Some of his ideas are great, but c'mon. He overreacts to everything; proclaims his builds to be ideal (causing many to think they are the only viable builds) and uses so many add-ons that a trained rabbit could solo a VR dungeon with them.

Deltia is sharing his passion for ESO with others in his videos. He is not telling anyone that you have to play that way. And how do you know that all others think that? Your assumptive while he is able to explain HIS builds.

You don't have to agree with his perspective or like his play style but as well you shouldn't judge him or other players just because they like addons.

Enraged_Tiki_Torch

slipHAZARD wrote: »

Hey guys I just wanted to say I created a thread discussing an alternative way of earning CP's. It's a little off topic from Deltia's post so I wanted to make a new thread. Anyways I'd like to hear your opinion so feel free to check it out.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/191704/what-if-cp-related-to-achievements-and-not-exp

I did a similar one as well, agree this imho is the best solution.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

(Brain Exploding)

Play however you want. The only thing I'm judging here is that he started a post calling a minor change the death of ESO and the people who seem to think he is King of Tamriel because he makes videos on YouTube. Just because someone with a good marketing plan makes a boast (that probably raised his profile) doesn't mean he is right. Skip Bayless also has a tv show.

Sallington

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

(Brain Exploding)

Play however you want. The only thing I'm judging here is that he started a post calling a minor change the death of ESO and the people who seem to think he is King of Tamriel because he makes videos on YouTube. Just because someone with a good marketing plan makes a boast (that probably raised his profile) doesn't mean he is right. Skip Bayless also has a tv show.

The problem is that it's ANOTHER minor change in the wrong direction.

Bromburak

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

The only thing I'm judging here is that he started a post calling a minor change the death of ESO and the people who seem to think he is King of Tamriel because he makes videos on YouTube. Just because someone with a good marketing plan makes a boast (that probably raised his profile) doesn't mean he is right.

Just because you think that, it doesn't mean its true.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

That's totally fair. If the community thinks it's bad than ok. We've pointed that out and it's a completely understandable and rational perspective. That's not the same as "The Death of ESO", the sky is falling argument that started this thread.

Bromburak

You are assumptive with everything you say, you think thats fair? Ok

Egg_Death

New player here, but champion points sound like the worst idea ever from where I'm sitting. If anything you should get de-buffed with respect to how many alts you have played, not the other way around. You have a huge advantage when you use dedicated crafters/mules for one main character, and that doesn't account for the experience advantage in having played as the classes you are fighting against. Time spent and experience gained IS your reward, you don't need some stupid boost to beat people who may be more skilled than you but have real lives to tend to.

As for grinding for new content I understand that people don't like to have their hard-earned gear/characters obsoleted by new minor content. I left Destiny because of the same crap, where all my gear was worse than anything I could buy at the vendors, and all of my exotics required a ton of time investment to re-level. It was yet-another way to force me to play the same content over again. I had only one character and it would still have taken me until the next content release to re-level my weapons alone. A few friends joined after the first DLC and quickly could get to my level by just buying stuff, never having done a raid. I see how this could lead them to making the CP system to give your character more power to compensate for power that was erased when your huge investment in gear suddenly became worth nothing. Perhaps this mechanic fails in that it accounts for alternate experience instead of being locked to the specific character as it should be. There should certainly be a daily/weekly/monthly cap on it.

I don't believe catering to those with 4+ alternates all at max level is necessarily good for the game. I strongly believe these decisions should be made with one character in mind, not 8. If alternates don't count then the PvPer's main is getting as much of a boost from CP as someone grinding PvE content (or it should be weighted so that this is true). What valid argument supports that your newbie Templar healer build should have any benefit from your veteran Sorcerer? None, and I can think of several for why you should receive a handicap to put you on equal footing with first-timers, considering you can benefit from free gear from your higher level characters.

Enraged_Tiki_Torch

I don't see an issue with adding new Veteran Ranks if it INCLUDES NEW CONTENT. Though they imo should be V1 (other alliance zones), V2 (Lower Crag), V3 (Upper Crag), V4 (Imperial City). V1-16 to me is overinflated and causes Zenimax more issues than are needed.

The only issue is see is they are trying to operate 2 different systems in the game that oppose each other. Group Dungeons scale on level so why have new levels? However, if they make different tiers of Trials/Dungeons it makes sense to have additional levels. You either go with Tiered content or you go with Scaled Dungeons. Having both is redundant and shows a lack of vision for the game future.

As far as itemization being an issue with removing Veteran ranks. I am obviously not sure how this game is structured but this seems like the easiest fix as well as a excellent opportunity to cut down on game recourses.

Here's your solution using ore as an example: Calcinium drops in V1, Galatite drops in V2, Quicksilver drops in V3, Voidstone drops in V4 zones. Or make Calcinium an extremely common harvest, while Voidstone is a rare harvest similar to Nirncrux. You don't need 2-5 different levels of gear from each material, consolidate it into different quality levels of gear. Remove the rest from game. As far as dropped sets of gear and PvP, you do the same exact thing. V1 drops from open world zones, V2-3 drops from Group Dungeons (V2 being more common that V3 which should be slightly rare), V4 drops from Trials, V1-4 have different alliance point costs from PvP vendors and Vendor Box items are scaled by rarity. You don't need every set of gear to have a range from veteran 1 to veteran 14. Again this is redundant and a waste of game resources.

Every piece of gear can be consolidated from 14 different levels into 4 different levels in quality. So for crafted gear as an example, a sword crafted with Calcinium would be the same quality as the current V1 version. Crafted with Galatite would be V4, Quicksilver would be V9, and Voidstone would be V14 quality. Continue to allow dungeon scaling in V1 zones, such as Wayrest Sewers so it's still possible to acquired desired loot like Monster Sets at max quality. V3 has vDSA and I am HOPING Imperial City has some dungeon similar, so those item qualities need to scale. So currently, there is no more need for Veteran Ranks if you just transfer the levels of gear into different qualities.

You don't have to make this a future distant plan, it can happen NOW!

wrathofrraath

./lute

Bye, bye ZOS's champion pie
Rode my senche to the zombies but the zombies were dry
And them good ole boys were drinking psijic to grind
Singin' this'll be the day that it dies

Xendyn

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

That's totally fair. If the community thinks it's bad than ok. We've pointed that out and it's a completely understandable and rational perspective. That's not the same as "The Death of ESO", the sky is falling argument that started this thread.

He never said it was the "death of ESO" he said

I'm all for account wide progression, but at what cost? At the cost that people grinding zombies ultimately win? At the cost that skill and performance are removed out of the game? I want to one day challenge Sypher in PvP without out grinding him. With skill, learning, getting my face kicked in by him over and over just to beat him one day with pure skill. Until this changes, the easier way for me to beat him is out grind him. Obtain such a mathematical advantage that no amount of skill can compensate. And that is the day that ESO dies.

Translation for the reading comprehension impaired:
If grinding is greater than learning and practicing your skills, then that will be the day that ESO dies.

See the difference?