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The Day ESO Dies
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Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think you pulled that quote from a thread that was closed and deleted. Pretty sure that is a no-no.
I do believe that a shared sense of progression, as in raiding guilds and just the sense that there is a limit to how far the "elite" can pull ahead, a limit that is reasonable and attainable, is essential to the health and longevity of a gaming IP.
If the devs at ESO don't know this, they better learn quick.3 -
Luffy✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »15 pages of crying. I have a level 43 with zero champion points and melt veterans in PVP every day. I'm also smart enough to know that picking a 1 on 1 fight with a VR14 is a bad idea. The only thing imbalanced about ESO is that guys like Deltia use 1438 add ons and think that means they are good. Stop crying and move to the level playing field on consoles. If you're good you can get the top 2% reward in veteran PVP with a non veteran character. I know because I did it.
What about dueling? Because if they ever add it(which I hope they don't) then your going to see real imbalance. Someone with 1000 cp can literally go afk and you won't beat them.
Where do you get the idea that 1000 cp can somehow make you a god? It adds sometimes less than 1/2% compared to someone with 0 points. You cannot go afk. Someone who knows how to play can easily kill you with your 1000 cp. Iys hyperbole like this which makes developers not want to take you seriously. 1000 cp doesnt make you superman. Skill will always trump stuff like cp.
Thats *** and you know it.4 -
ch.ris317b14_ESO✭✭✭Averya_Teira wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »Mr_Bubbely wrote: »Sithisvoid wrote: »BrightnessSyl wrote: »Sithisvoid wrote: »Kinda started to die for me when i tuned into a streamers' channel and he was hating on a race so much he was singing "ain't no Nord in my blood"
Sithisvoid clearly that was a joke, humor is always needed when streaming. This has nothing to do with that. DO you play the game? Do you care about the changes? Put personal views toward a streamer aside and fight for your game.
I don't see anything wrong with VR16 or Champion points. MMO's raise level cap. Champion points keep people playing the game. Plus what kind of backlash would erupt if they removed them? The people who spent hour upon hour grinding will suddenly leave the mobs and return the the forum in Frankenstein mob form.
And I agree, whats the point of an MMO if you can't advance further and get even better? Isnt that the point of an MMO? To become the very best you can be?
This is ZOS's main problem right here. Short sighted thinking based on "what keeps people paying me" rather than "what makes games fun." It is the disconnect between failing to consider the 2nd and diminishing revenue that will cause this game to fail. ZOS are incredibly stubborn and refuse to consider that designing around making things fun IS what keeps people paying! They would rather milk the whales and grinders with ADD and the need for comparative validation (read: the need to compare themselves to others and see they have "more" of something in order to feel they have achieved something).
A successful MMO like WoW understands the importance of BALANCE in this equation. That is why they have Arena SEASONS and raid TIERS. Yes you can run the treadmill and improve, have new experiences, get new gear, but you do it TOGETHER. That is what is missing in ESO. In a tried and tested game like WoW you can join a group of players in a guild and catch up within a matter of weeks/months. Then you SHARE the experience of improving, yet no one improves far beyond anyone else due to the raid tier being fixed until new content is released.
This is the sort of rewarding team play that PROFESSIONAL companies provide.
ESO comes off as amateur and inexperienced, and stubbornly resistant to change. They are hard-headedly convinced their way is the best way, in spite of all feedback to the contrary. According to ZOS there should be no shared experience, no limits to a raid or arena season that prevents any one group from pulling unattainably ahead of everyone else destroying fair play for new players.
According to ZOS, mindless zombie grinders should be rewarded and encouraged with leaderboards to directly compare epeen, XP scrolls to be bought for real dollars to help them grind, and a HORRIBLE CP system with no limits so they can just mindlessly grind 24/7, pay their friends to grind their accounts while they sleep, all to gain an unfair advantage that destroys any semblance of shared experience or sportsmanship as a reward for their self-abuse of a broken system.
We hear arguments like "these players are amazing, they earned that advantage." I'm sorry, but mindlessly mashing Steel Tornado in a troll cave does NOT make you awesome. It makes you have no life and a desperate need for validation through unfair advantage, and ZOS should be ashamed to be catering to this mentality.
An MMO will succeed if there is A SHARED EXPRIENCE OF PROGRESSION and a sense of FAIR PLAY.
If you take that away, and everything is "us vs. them," "me vs. the world" and throw a unregulated linear power ladder at mindless 24/7 grinders, you will have effectively thrown your franchise out the window.
The solution is incredibly simple, as so many have stated: Implement tiered limits to how many CP can be gained in a given period LIKE EVERY OTHER MMO HAS SEASONS AND TIER LIMITS, and let the 1% grinders QQ about their unfair advantage for living an unhealthy life being taken away. More important you keep the 99% of legit players which hopefully the suits are beginning to realize.
In addition, make CP gain faster the further from the current cap you are. Do these two simple things and the problem is essentially solved, but again ZOS is incredibly stubborn and the suits are convinced they can make more money milking whales than listening to the concerns of the majority of their (formerly) paying customers.
It is a real self fulfilling prophecy scenario. We'll see if they have the courage and integrity to admit that they were wrong.
I think the issue is not they don't want to change and incorporate tiered CPs and everything you wrote, I'm pretty sure it's a lack of actual skills and experience from the devs and people coding the game. They just don't KNOW how to do it...
This is reinforced by the fact that almost every programmer they have on ESO live for interviews has about zero gaming experience/portfolio besides ESO itself.... and that they cannot even work the computer half the time1 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I only heal and repair walls because someone has to. I much prefer to fight 1 on 1s, 2 on 2s, 1 on 5s etc. In fact I do it every day. My kill to death ratio yesterday was like 40 to 5. With the right positioning (fighting going down a hill instead of up it for example), not chasing others into NPC traps and having a good skill bar rotation (how many of you don't use your heavy attacks to get magic and stamina back?) it's completely possible to flourish. Also, maybe some people on here should consider putting points into health and wearing 7/7 heavy armor. Those things help you stay alive. Getting "OMGDPS" crazy with your build is an open invitation to get one shotted. Something that's happened to me exactly twice (aside from siege weapons) exactly twice since the console launch.2 -
ch.ris317b14_ESO✭✭✭danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »I only heal and repair walls because someone has to. I much prefer to fight 1 on 1s, 2 on 2s, 1 on 5s etc. In fact I do it every day. My kill to death ratio yesterday was like 40 to 5. With the right positioning (fighting going down a hill instead of up it for example), not chasing others into NPC traps and having a good skill bar rotation (how many of you don't use your heavy attacks to get magic and stamina back?) it's completely possible to flourish. Also, maybe some people on here should consider putting points into health and wearing 7/7 heavy armor. Those things help you stay alive. Getting "OMGDPS" crazy with your build is an open invitation to get one shotted. Something that's happened to me exactly twice (aside from siege weapons) exactly twice since the console launch.
If people do that, its because through the entire leveling process you are almost never rewarded for building tanky....0 -
Aneima✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »15 pages of crying. I have a level 43 with zero champion points and melt veterans in PVP every day. I'm also smart enough to know that picking a 1 on 1 fight with a VR14 is a bad idea. The only thing imbalanced about ESO is that guys like Deltia use 1438 add ons and think that means they are good. Stop crying and move to the level playing field on consoles. If you're good you can get the top 2% reward in veteran PVP with a non veteran character. I know because I did it.
What about dueling? Because if they ever add it(which I hope they don't) then your going to see real imbalance. Someone with 1000 cp can literally go afk and you won't beat them.
Where do you get the idea that 1000 cp can somehow make you a god? It adds sometimes less than 1/2% compared to someone with 0 points. You cannot go afk. Someone who knows how to play can easily kill you with your 1000 cp. Iys hyperbole like this which makes developers not want to take you seriously. 1000 cp doesnt make you superman. Skill will always trump stuff like cp.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »15 pages of crying. I have a level 43 with zero champion points and melt veterans in PVP every day. I'm also smart enough to know that picking a 1 on 1 fight with a VR14 is a bad idea. The only thing imbalanced about ESO is that guys like Deltia use 1438 add ons and think that means they are good. Stop crying and move to the level playing field on consoles. If you're good you can get the top 2% reward in veteran PVP with a non veteran character. I know because I did it.
What about dueling? Because if they ever add it(which I hope they don't) then your going to see real imbalance. Someone with 1000 cp can literally go afk and you won't beat them.
Where do you get the idea that 1000 cp can somehow make you a god? It adds sometimes less than 1/2% compared to someone with 0 points. You cannot go afk. Someone who knows how to play can easily kill you with your 1000 cp. Iys hyperbole like this which makes developers not want to take you seriously. 1000 cp doesnt make you superman. Skill will always trump stuff like cp.
If skill trumps cp then why farm cp? I'll tell you why...because it does make a difference!
I get it you like playing eso that's cool, just keep paying them your $15 dollars a month....I'm sure they will reward you with the best new content and updates that money can buy fanboy.2 -
ch.ris317b14_ESO✭✭✭It doesn't make sense for them to not equalize PVP and scale PVE to Level/VR/Cp ..... especially on the PVP sode ot would ultimately mean tremendously less work for them, especially as they add new actual content.0
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James-Wayne✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't have a issue with the new VR levels as that is what MMO's do, new content, new level increase, new items to match, just makes sense to me and I would much rather have new content right now then wait another 6 months for a new system to handle VR items. The XP needed to go from VR1-16 will be the same as VR1-14 now so it's really only items that I guess people are complaining about it but I'm look forward to the next big hunt myself.
I'm used my main character on PTS with 1000 CP and the character isnt that powerful to be honest, I guess due to the diminishing returns but I believe they have said they will look at where everyone is at on CP and offer catch up systems if the gap is to great so not a issue for me PLUS with them removing the PvP buffs from PvE sort of need lots more CP to balance it back out again.
We have had no new content for a VERY long time now so if raising the VR cap brings new items and new content to play then I say BRING IT ON!!PERTH, AUSTRALIA | PC | NA | @Aussie-Elders
TENTH ANNIVERSARY - Thanks for sticking with us for 10 years.
James-Wayne you earned this badge 9:56AM on 4th of February 2024.
529 people have also earned this badge.0 -
SC0TY999✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »I know you guys always say if they dont do what you say RIGHT NOW the game will end tomorrow etc. Yet here you are still. As I said there are about 100 people just like you on the swtor demanding their ideas be implemented right now or the game will end tomorrow as well.
I'm not demanding, I am engaging in open discussion. Demanding would involve letters to the CEO and some sort of Youtube campaign, which I don't really feel would be appropriate or necessary at this point. Not from me anyway; I suck at Youtube videos.
It is obvious though that people are losing faith in the game because of this unlimited and ever-widening gap catering to 24/7 grinders gaining an unfair advantage for an activity which requires zero skill and has no system in place to catch up, and that concerns me. The possibility of fair play is one of the saving graces of an already minority PVP system.
But when you say "you are still here" I don't think it really carries much weight in the reality of things. Perhaps you missed previous posts about well-know contributors leaving the game over this (taking their money with them) and the affect it has on the community? I myself an no longer paying a sub, for the first time since launch.
This isn't "a little extortion among friends" or some evil conspiracy. It is a simple and obvious fact, that if players lose the perception of balance or fairness, and see deplorable behavior like 24/7 account sharing and grinding being rewarded with unreachable stat gaps, they will become disenfranchised and lose interest.
I want to see ESO succeed and thrive, but this absence of tier caps letting the people with the most free time run roughshod over the average player has sapped my will to invest.
Just wanted to throw it out there.
Plus ZOS's inability to fix bugs and exploits in a timely manner and the constant lies to the community.5 -
SC0TY999✭✭✭✭James-Wayne wrote: »I don't have a issue with the new VR levels as that is what MMO's do, new content, new level increase, new items to match, just makes sense to me and I would much rather have new content right now then wait another 6 months for a new system to handle VR items. The XP needed to go from VR1-16 will be the same as VR1-14 now so it's really only items that I guess people are complaining about it but I'm look forward to the next big hunt myself.
I'm used my main character on PTS with 1000 CP and the character isnt that powerful to be honest, I guess due to the diminishing returns but I believe they have said they will look at where everyone is at on CP and offer catch up systems if the gap is to great so not a issue for me PLUS with them removing the PvP buffs from PvE sort of need lots more CP to balance it back out again.
We have had no new content for a VERY long time now so if raising the VR cap brings new items and new content to play then I say BRING IT ON!!
You say you want new content and bring it on.
The only new content you will see is IC which is about 3 months away.
What if your faction are never able to control or capture the keeps that get you access to the IC?
Will you jump to a home faction controlled campaign?
That is the equivalent of a buff campaign!
If the answer is yes then you and probably lots of players will be doing the same thing, the population balance will be in the same mess that it's currently in, and the game will not move forward any further than where it's currently at.
Food for thought
1 -
Heromofo✭✭✭✭✭James-Wayne wrote: »I don't have a issue with the new VR levels as that is what MMO's do, new content, new level increase, new items to match, just makes sense to me and I would much rather have new content right now then wait another 6 months for a new system to handle VR items. The XP needed to go from VR1-16 will be the same as VR1-14 now so it's really only items that I guess people are complaining about it but I'm look forward to the next big hunt myself.
I'm used my main character on PTS with 1000 CP and the character isnt that powerful to be honest, I guess due to the diminishing returns but I believe they have said they will look at where everyone is at on CP and offer catch up systems if the gap is to great so not a issue for me PLUS with them removing the PvP buffs from PvE sort of need lots more CP to balance it back out again.
We have had no new content for a VERY long time now so if raising the VR cap brings new items and new content to play then I say BRING IT ON!!
You say you want new content and bring it on.
The only new content you will see is IC which is about 3 months away.
What if your faction are never able to control or capture the keeps that get you access to the IC?
Will you jump to a home faction controlled campaign?
That is the equivalent of a buff campaign!
If the answer is yes then you and probably lots of players will be doing the same thing, the population balance will be in the same mess that it's currently in, and the game will not move forward any further than where it's currently at.
Food for thought
This big time hence why i dont class IC as wanted content but just an update to pvp.
Probably won't get real content until the end of the year at this rate.
3 -
Lazrael✭✭✭James-Wayne wrote: »I don't have a issue with the new VR levels as that is what MMO's do, new content, new level increase, new items to match, just makes sense to me and I would much rather have new content right now then wait another 6 months for a new system to handle VR items. The XP needed to go from VR1-16 will be the same as VR1-14 now so it's really only items that I guess people are complaining about it but I'm look forward to the next big hunt myself.
I'm used my main character on PTS with 1000 CP and the character isnt that powerful to be honest, I guess due to the diminishing returns but I believe they have said they will look at where everyone is at on CP and offer catch up systems if the gap is to great so not a issue for me PLUS with them removing the PvP buffs from PvE sort of need lots more CP to balance it back out again.
We have had no new content for a VERY long time now so if raising the VR cap brings new items and new content to play then I say BRING IT ON!!
You say you want new content and bring it on.
The only new content you will see is IC which is about 3 months away.
What if your faction are never able to control or capture the keeps that get you access to the IC?
Will you jump to a home faction controlled campaign?
That is the equivalent of a buff campaign!
If the answer is yes then you and probably lots of players will be doing the same thing, the population balance will be in the same mess that it's currently in, and the game will not move forward any further than where it's currently at.
Food for thought
This big time hence why i dont class IC as wanted content but just an update to pvp.
Probably won't get real content until the end of the year at this rate.
And by then we will all be in Fallout 4 lolArtists and Theives...6 -
Heromofo✭✭✭✭✭James-Wayne wrote: »I don't have a issue with the new VR levels as that is what MMO's do, new content, new level increase, new items to match, just makes sense to me and I would much rather have new content right now then wait another 6 months for a new system to handle VR items. The XP needed to go from VR1-16 will be the same as VR1-14 now so it's really only items that I guess people are complaining about it but I'm look forward to the next big hunt myself.
I'm used my main character on PTS with 1000 CP and the character isnt that powerful to be honest, I guess due to the diminishing returns but I believe they have said they will look at where everyone is at on CP and offer catch up systems if the gap is to great so not a issue for me PLUS with them removing the PvP buffs from PvE sort of need lots more CP to balance it back out again.
We have had no new content for a VERY long time now so if raising the VR cap brings new items and new content to play then I say BRING IT ON!!
You say you want new content and bring it on.
The only new content you will see is IC which is about 3 months away.
What if your faction are never able to control or capture the keeps that get you access to the IC?
Will you jump to a home faction controlled campaign?
That is the equivalent of a buff campaign!
If the answer is yes then you and probably lots of players will be doing the same thing, the population balance will be in the same mess that it's currently in, and the game will not move forward any further than where it's currently at.
Food for thought
This big time hence why i dont class IC as wanted content but just an update to pvp.
Probably won't get real content until the end of the year at this rate.
And by then we will all be in Fallout 4 lol
Fallout 4 plus star wars battlefront will take over my life so your right by then i probably won't care anymore lol.3 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I have a feeling the CP gap issue is an intentional situation where the cash shop will play a key role in it's perpetuation, and eventual solution. That belief began for me as soon as I saw the XP scrolls in the store, and their ridiculous in game counterpart.
Case in point. The Day the champion system was released people were complaining about the already present gap, to which they hotfixed certain areas to prevent the gap from growing too large. Not only did they hot fix certain delves, they completely destroyed Craglorn as an xp source for Vet levels or CP! The gap, as well as the concern, continued to grow after that due to grinding and in the face of it all they release the xp scrolls in the cash shop. They did a complete 180 in their concern because there was money involved in it. The cash shop will be the rudder of this ship from now on.Edited by Armitas on July 5, 2015 9:33PMRetired.
Nord mDK4 -
Justice31st✭✭✭✭✭
✭*deleted*Edited by Justice31st on September 30, 2015 4:11AM"The more you know who you are, and what you want, the less you let things upset you."1 -
Talemire✭✭✭I understand what Deltia is trying to say, but I feel the major issue here isn't the Champion System and how much you can augment your character(s) from it, it's how balance in PvP is managed. Changing the Champion System only puts a bandaid on the problem, which is never a good fix. ZOS implemented the CS for a reason, and it's good, and it works - It keeps players sucked in because there's more progression in this game than EQ's Alternate Advancement System ever brought to the table (good job, ZOS). While I'm not ashamed to admit that I don't have a direct and in-depth answer to the problem, I can say that a good start would be to increase the time to kill in PvP and make battles longer and more epic. This leaves room for more strategy to be used and more opportunity to counter the player with a lot of champion points.
The major reason I say the CS isn't the issue is because you can always respec your champion points to counter any issue you have in PvP. Taking too much damage? Place your points defensively. Not healing enough? Not doing enough damage? Different scenarios, same solution. Sure, the system gives you some nice percentage bonuses, but as long as you place the points you DO have wisely, there shouldn't be too big of a problem.
Don't change the CS, increase TTK and balance things out a bit in PvP.0 -
gard✭✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Leave our gear alone!!!
Not gonna happen, phase 1 for money sink.
The next big thing in ESO.
Well at least you admit it. I dont think @Deltia or anyone else sees this for what it really is. A gear grab.
They are afraid of attrition rates due to gaps in content. If everyone has to re-grind all their monster helms, it will keep them busy.
They just don't understand that those of us that like PVP like to PVP. That's it. We don't need an incentive to stay playing other than the fact that we like to PvP. On any given day we would rather just PvP than try to grind gear for hours.
They don't need to keep us in the game. they have us already. Why are they forcing us to do something we hate instead of something we love if we are STILL GOING TO PLAY? The only answer is that they will eventually sell gear or shortcuts to gear. That is the freemium way.
@Yolokin_Swagonborn
Players playing earns no money for ZOS.
In order for them to make money, they need either new game sales or crown store sales. You already own the game and are not likely to buy another copy once a year.
Therefore you will be forced to grind for new gear and levels and hopefully find it annoying enough to spend money on a sub and/or experience gain enhancers in the crown store.
1 -
Rhakon✭✭✭
Idea from @Rune_Relic
They don't need to remove it and replace it with something else with 6 months of work.
All they need to do is add a CHAMPION BAR with 3 slots.
1 Warrior passive can be loaded.
1 Thief passive can be loaded.
1 Mage passive can be loaded.
Now it doesn't matter how many CP you have as you can only use 3 passive out of the 36.
People can grind away to their hearts content.
Someone with 300 CP will be just as powerful as anyone with 3600 CP..except they wont have 36 passive skills to choose from.
The stam/mag/health from each CP has to be nerfed though.
No power creep.
No power gap.
No gated content.
Endless progression
No gated endgame
Forced Build diversity.
additions and ideas from @washlov
sample
Warrior/The Lord/Heavy Armor Focus: Increases your Armor by 13% while wearing 5 or more pieces of heavy armor.
Thief/The Lover/Mooncalf: Increases your Stamina Recovery by 25%.
Mage/The Ritual/Piercing: Increases the amount of Armor your physical attacks ignore by 25%.
sample 2
Warrior/The Steed/Medium Armor Focus: Increases your Armor by 13% when a Medium Armor set of 5 or more pieces is equipped.
Thief/The Tower/Warlord: Reduces the Stamina cost of spells and abilities by 15.8%.
Mage/The Ritual/Precise Strikes: Increases the critical damage of your physical attacks by 25%.
these are two stamina builds but completely different
it would make the CS experimental and make the chars different
it would make the boring linear system where everybody get the same passives interesting and would make it meaningfulHow would you handle the perks that unlock automatically, like Precise Strike? Would I have to slot those as well, or are they always active?
may than put the Warrior/Mage/Thief restriction away
if you take one perk get the one with the 10 points
if you take two perks get also the one with the 30 points
if you take three perks from one line get all four the fourth is a bonus cause you are a specialist now
sample
Warrior/The Steed/Passive Buffs
one perk:
Invigorating Bash
Gives you a 20% chance to restore 5 Health when you bash an enemy.
two perks:
Phase
After roll dodging, your Armor and Spell Resistance is increased by 1000 for 3 seconds.
three perks(the steed master):
Shield Expert
Increases the Armor and Spell Resistance of equipped Shields by 75%.
Reinforced
When activating block gain a damage shield for 1900 every 10 seconds.
alternative idea
if you take one perk get the one with the 10 points
if you take two perks get the one with the 30 points
if you take three perks get the one with the 75 points
the 120 point perks could be specialist perks which one can be chosen if you have 3 perks of one guardian constellation
so if you have 3 perks choosen from Warrior you would be a specialist and can choose one from:
Reinforced: When activating block gain a damage shield for 1900 every 10 seconds.
Unchained:Reduces the Stamina cost of abilities by 80% for 3 seconds after breaking free of a stun, knockdown, fear, disorient, or stagger.
Determination:Absorbs 1950 damage for 15 seconds after drinking a potion.
you would be a Master Warrior
Best Idea so far! THX to you two.Edited by Rhakon on July 5, 2015 10:46PM5 -
sadownik✭✭✭✭✭
✭Idea from @Rune_Relic
They don't need to remove it and replace it with something else with 6 months of work.
All they need to do is add a CHAMPION BAR with 3 slots.
1 Warrior passive can be loaded.
1 Thief passive can be loaded.
1 Mage passive can be loaded.
Now it doesn't matter how many CP you have as you can only use 3 passive out of the 36.
People can grind away to their hearts content.
Someone with 300 CP will be just as powerful as anyone with 3600 CP..except they wont have 36 passive skills to choose from.
The stam/mag/health from each CP has to be nerfed though.
No power creep.
No power gap.
No gated content.
Endless progression
No gated endgame
Forced Build diversity.
additions and ideas from @washlov
sample
Warrior/The Lord/Heavy Armor Focus: Increases your Armor by 13% while wearing 5 or more pieces of heavy armor.
Thief/The Lover/Mooncalf: Increases your Stamina Recovery by 25%.
Mage/The Ritual/Piercing: Increases the amount of Armor your physical attacks ignore by 25%.
sample 2
Warrior/The Steed/Medium Armor Focus: Increases your Armor by 13% when a Medium Armor set of 5 or more pieces is equipped.
Thief/The Tower/Warlord: Reduces the Stamina cost of spells and abilities by 15.8%.
Mage/The Ritual/Precise Strikes: Increases the critical damage of your physical attacks by 25%.
these are two stamina builds but completely different
it would make the CS experimental and make the chars different
it would make the boring linear system where everybody get the same passives interesting and would make it meaningfulHow would you handle the perks that unlock automatically, like Precise Strike? Would I have to slot those as well, or are they always active?
may than put the Warrior/Mage/Thief restriction away
if you take one perk get the one with the 10 points
if you take two perks get also the one with the 30 points
if you take three perks from one line get all four the fourth is a bonus cause you are a specialist now
sample
Warrior/The Steed/Passive Buffs
one perk:
Invigorating Bash
Gives you a 20% chance to restore 5 Health when you bash an enemy.
two perks:
Phase
After roll dodging, your Armor and Spell Resistance is increased by 1000 for 3 seconds.
three perks(the steed master):
Shield Expert
Increases the Armor and Spell Resistance of equipped Shields by 75%.
Reinforced
When activating block gain a damage shield for 1900 every 10 seconds.
alternative idea
if you take one perk get the one with the 10 points
if you take two perks get the one with the 30 points
if you take three perks get the one with the 75 points
the 120 point perks could be specialist perks which one can be chosen if you have 3 perks of one guardian constellation
so if you have 3 perks choosen from Warrior you would be a specialist and can choose one from:
Reinforced: When activating block gain a damage shield for 1900 every 10 seconds.
Unchained:Reduces the Stamina cost of abilities by 80% for 3 seconds after breaking free of a stun, knockdown, fear, disorient, or stagger.
Determination:Absorbs 1950 damage for 15 seconds after drinking a potion.
you would be a Master Warrior
Best Idea so far! THX to you two.
That is actually pretty impressive.5 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ok, here's my take on this.
First off thanks to @Deltia for the thread, and the comprehensive opening post.
Reading through the thread a sentiment seemed to come to the fore for a short while that I think needs addressing.
Someone, I can't recall who, said that Zeni needs to go talk to the Streamers.
No, it doesn't.
What percentage of the playerbase are major streamers? 5% maybe.
The same sentiment is often used with reference to PvPers and End-Game Raiders.
What percentage of the playerbase are PvPers? Well as an average for the MMORPG industry it is rarely above 20%.
What percentage of the playerbase are End-Game Raiders? Well, again as an industry average, it is rarely above 20%.
But the key here is what degree of crossover is there among these three groups? I'd honestly be surprised if all three groups combined made up more than 20-25% of the playerbase.
So why should Zeni go listen to and talk with them?
Is there some elitism assumed here; that these people know what is wrong with the game and how to fix it?
Well I hope not.
I can't think of one single MMORPG that has been improved in any way by listening to, for example, PvPers. MMORPGs are not the platform for PvP; the conflict between balancing PvP and PvE almost always leads to both areas of the game suffering and no one being happy.
No more strength should be given to the voice of any group over any other.
I'll be honest and say IC means nothing to me; I don't PvP in MMORPgs for the reasons I outlined above. If all the "new content" is is IC then there is no new content for me.
If I can avoid Cyrodil and IC totally then I will; if I can't I'll be in just long enough to pick up the Shards I need and then I'll be out never to return.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.3 -
Eleusian✭✭✭The real question is what are they planning long term to drive up transactions from the Crown store. The $60 pay wall will begin to wane now that the game is out all all current Gen Platforms and the new wears off . i guess is not making tons of new content to sellPS4 NA0 -
JacksonCarter13✭✭✭Thanks for saying something Deltia! Everytime I say something with any sort of tone they remove my post almost instantly or change it with a million others. I agree with everything you said !0 -
washlov✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Ok, here's my take on this.
First off thanks to @Deltia for the thread, and the comprehensive opening post.
Reading through the thread a sentiment seemed to come to the fore for a short while that I think needs addressing.
Someone, I can't recall who, said that Zeni needs to go talk to the Streamers.
No, it doesn't.
What percentage of the playerbase are major streamers? 5% maybe.
The same sentiment is often used with reference to PvPers and End-Game Raiders.
What percentage of the playerbase are PvPers? Well as an average for the MMORPG industry it is rarely above 20%.
What percentage of the playerbase are End-Game Raiders? Well, again as an industry average, it is rarely above 20%.
But the key here is what degree of crossover is there among these three groups? I'd honestly be surprised if all three groups combined made up more than 20-25% of the playerbase.
So why should Zeni go listen to and talk with them?
Is there some elitism assumed here; that these people know what is wrong with the game and how to fix it?
Well I hope not.
I can't think of one single MMORPG that has been improved in any way by listening to, for example, PvPers. MMORPGs are not the platform for PvP; the conflict between balancing PvP and PvE almost always leads to both areas of the game suffering and no one being happy.
No more strength should be given to the voice of any group over any other.
I'll be honest and say IC means nothing to me; I don't PvP in MMORPgs for the reasons I outlined above. If all the "new content" is is IC then there is no new content for me.
If I can avoid Cyrodil and IC totally then I will; if I can't I'll be in just long enough to pick up the Shards I need and then I'll be out never to return.
All The Best
? why you write something you are ONE why should someone listen to you ONE
this thread is not only from PVP players
the champion system makes also PVE unfair because there are leaderboards
new players will never have a chance there
all the PVE content will be too easy for the champion point farmers
how will you balance PVE so it will be challenging for all?5 -
Nikkiy✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Ok, here's my take on this.
First off thanks to @Deltia for the thread, and the comprehensive opening post.
Reading through the thread a sentiment seemed to come to the fore for a short while that I think needs addressing.
Someone, I can't recall who, said that Zeni needs to go talk to the Streamers.
No, it doesn't.
What percentage of the playerbase are major streamers? 5% maybe.
The same sentiment is often used with reference to PvPers and End-Game Raiders.
What percentage of the playerbase are PvPers? Well as an average for the MMORPG industry it is rarely above 20%.
What percentage of the playerbase are End-Game Raiders? Well, again as an industry average, it is rarely above 20%.
But the key here is what degree of crossover is there among these three groups? I'd honestly be surprised if all three groups combined made up more than 20-25% of the playerbase.
So why should Zeni go listen to and talk with them?
Is there some elitism assumed here; that these people know what is wrong with the game and how to fix it?
Well I hope not.
I can't think of one single MMORPG that has been improved in any way by listening to, for example, PvPers. MMORPGs are not the platform for PvP; the conflict between balancing PvP and PvE almost always leads to both areas of the game suffering and no one being happy.
No more strength should be given to the voice of any group over any other.
I'll be honest and say IC means nothing to me; I don't PvP in MMORPgs for the reasons I outlined above. If all the "new content" is is IC then there is no new content for me.
If I can avoid Cyrodil and IC totally then I will; if I can't I'll be in just long enough to pick up the Shards I need and then I'll be out never to return.
All The Best
If you dont take part in any Endgame raiding nor any PVP, chances are that the CP system or the new lvl cap wont affect you anyway. Endgame PVE and PVP, however, is affected by this big time, especially for casuals that dont have the time to play 24/7. Things like 25% more elemental damage done or Spell Resistance increased by 25% plus passives like Arcane Well, not to mention the gear you can stack this stuff with, can make the game feel unfair to players dont have many CP. Players like Deltia (who play 24/7) are likely to encounter more problems than the average Joe, which does help the game! (and all players, no matter how hardcore or casual). Their feedback should be most welcome by all of us
CheersEdited by Nikkiy on July 6, 2015 1:12AM5 -
RazzPitazz✭✭✭✭Averya_Teira wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »Mr_Bubbely wrote: »Sithisvoid wrote: »BrightnessSyl wrote: »Sithisvoid wrote: »Kinda started to die for me when i tuned into a streamers' channel and he was hating on a race so much he was singing "ain't no Nord in my blood"
Sithisvoid clearly that was a joke, humor is always needed when streaming. This has nothing to do with that. DO you play the game? Do you care about the changes? Put personal views toward a streamer aside and fight for your game.
I don't see anything wrong with VR16 or Champion points. MMO's raise level cap. Champion points keep people playing the game. Plus what kind of backlash would erupt if they removed them? The people who spent hour upon hour grinding will suddenly leave the mobs and return the the forum in Frankenstein mob form.
And I agree, whats the point of an MMO if you can't advance further and get even better? Isnt that the point of an MMO? To become the very best you can be?
This is ZOS's main problem right here. Short sighted thinking based on "what keeps people paying me" rather than "what makes games fun." It is the disconnect between failing to consider the 2nd and diminishing revenue that will cause this game to fail. ZOS are incredibly stubborn and refuse to consider that designing around making things fun IS what keeps people paying! They would rather milk the whales and grinders with ADD and the need for comparative validation (read: the need to compare themselves to others and see they have "more" of something in order to feel they have achieved something).
A successful MMO like WoW understands the importance of BALANCE in this equation. That is why they have Arena SEASONS and raid TIERS. Yes you can run the treadmill and improve, have new experiences, get new gear, but you do it TOGETHER. That is what is missing in ESO. In a tried and tested game like WoW you can join a group of players in a guild and catch up within a matter of weeks/months. Then you SHARE the experience of improving, yet no one improves far beyond anyone else due to the raid tier being fixed until new content is released.
This is the sort of rewarding team play that PROFESSIONAL companies provide.
ESO comes off as amateur and inexperienced, and stubbornly resistant to change. They are hard-headedly convinced their way is the best way, in spite of all feedback to the contrary. According to ZOS there should be no shared experience, no limits to a raid or arena season that prevents any one group from pulling unattainably ahead of everyone else destroying fair play for new players.
According to ZOS, mindless zombie grinders should be rewarded and encouraged with leaderboards to directly compare epeen, XP scrolls to be bought for real dollars to help them grind, and a HORRIBLE CP system with no limits so they can just mindlessly grind 24/7, pay their friends to grind their accounts while they sleep, all to gain an unfair advantage that destroys any semblance of shared experience or sportsmanship as a reward for their self-abuse of a broken system.
We hear arguments like "these players are amazing, they earned that advantage." I'm sorry, but mindlessly mashing Steel Tornado in a troll cave does NOT make you awesome. It makes you have no life and a desperate need for validation through unfair advantage, and ZOS should be ashamed to be catering to this mentality.
An MMO will succeed if there is A SHARED EXPRIENCE OF PROGRESSION and a sense of FAIR PLAY.
If you take that away, and everything is "us vs. them," "me vs. the world" and throw a unregulated linear power ladder at mindless 24/7 grinders, you will have effectively thrown your franchise out the window.
The solution is incredibly simple, as so many have stated: Implement tiered limits to how many CP can be gained in a given period LIKE EVERY OTHER MMO HAS SEASONS AND TIER LIMITS, and let the 1% grinders QQ about their unfair advantage for living an unhealthy life being taken away. More important you keep the 99% of legit players which hopefully the suits are beginning to realize.
In addition, make CP gain faster the further from the current cap you are. Do these two simple things and the problem is essentially solved, but again ZOS is incredibly stubborn and the suits are convinced they can make more money milking whales than listening to the concerns of the majority of their (formerly) paying customers.
It is a real self fulfilling prophecy scenario. We'll see if they have the courage and integrity to admit that they were wrong.
I think the issue is not they don't want to change and incorporate tiered CPs and everything you wrote, I'm pretty sure it's a lack of actual skills and experience from the devs and people coding the game. They just don't KNOW how to do it...
Yea, saying they are stubborn is the most BS statement of all, saying they don't listen or care is outright libel.
First they had no veteran system, then some people cried to allow full world exploration so then the veteran system was implemented. Then some pepper cried about the veteran system so they implemented a three phase system of removal (we are in phase 2.5) in which CP was meant to replace. They will no longer advertise globally in game because some players hated it. They have implemented fixes/buffs/nerfs to some of the most widely popular and unpopular skills in the game.
Yea, the tread a fine line with the cash shop and they keep plans fairly close to the chest.
However, arguing that istening and caring about what the community has to say may have put them in these bad spots to begin with would be a more solid argument than saying they don't listen or care at all.PC NA
VR1 - Jar'eed - Khajiit Dragon Knight - AD
VR1 - Broad Tail - Argonian Templar - EP
All-Star Crafter Guild0 -
bosmern_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Champion points are great, but they shouldn't be as main of a thing as they are. What I experienced in the PTS when they gave everyone max CP was that everyone was an emperor ( I even fought the emperor on the PTS and we couldn't kill each other).
For player skill it should be judged as
Player skill > Gear > CP
and not-
CP > Gear > Player skill
Champion points should be there to help you a small amount (most of them give you +25% to a stat at 100 points, then the other bonuses set it even further up)~Thallen~4 -
Everything you wrote in your last post. Cut out for brevity.
Best Idea so far! THX to you two.
Cool idea and very thought-out. This seems like a complete rehaul of the champion system though. If everyone was at roughly the same number of CP would anyone care? I don't see the Champion System as the fault. The fault is how CP is gained, Zenimax in this instance has invertedly favored one playstyle over the other and given them a huge advantage in the game. People that want to experience content, PvP, do dungeons or quests are suddenly forced to do something they don't enjoy to be able to stay in competition with grinders. There would be the same outrage if all the PvE'ers were forced to PvP because there was some required acquisition from PvP that was needed to do Trials/Dungeons.
My solution to Champion Point System here1 -
noobfury✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Leave our gear alone!!!
Not gonna happen, phase 1 for money sink.
The next big thing in ESO.
Well at least you admit it. I dont think @Deltia or anyone else sees this for what it really is. A gear grab.
They are afraid of attrition rates due to gaps in content. If everyone has to re-grind all their monster helms, it will keep them busy.
They just don't understand that those of us that like PVP like to PVP. That's it. We don't need an incentive to stay playing other than the fact that we like to PvP. On any given day we would rather just PvP than try to grind gear for hours.
They don't need to keep us in the game. they have us already. Why are they forcing us to do something we hate instead of something we love if we are STILL GOING TO PLAY? The only answer is that they will eventually sell gear or shortcuts to gear. That is the freemium way.
@Yolokin_Swagonborn
Players playing earns no money for ZOS.
In order for them to make money, they need either new game sales or crown store sales. You already own the game and are not likely to buy another copy once a year.
Therefore you will be forced to grind for new gear and levels and hopefully find it annoying enough to spend money on a sub and/or experience gain enhancers in the crown store.
They could sell a large expansion with new levels , content and gear once a year and make plenty of money without having to sell any exp boosters. I would gladly pay for that as well as new DLC.noobfury earned the Eighth Anniversary badge.Thanks for sticking with us for 8 years. PC NA0 -
AzraelKrieg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Leave our gear alone!!!
Not gonna happen, phase 1 for money sink.
The next big thing in ESO.
Well at least you admit it. I dont think @Deltia or anyone else sees this for what it really is. A gear grab.
They are afraid of attrition rates due to gaps in content. If everyone has to re-grind all their monster helms, it will keep them busy.
They just don't understand that those of us that like PVP like to PVP. That's it. We don't need an incentive to stay playing other than the fact that we like to PvP. On any given day we would rather just PvP than try to grind gear for hours.
They don't need to keep us in the game. they have us already. Why are they forcing us to do something we hate instead of something we love if we are STILL GOING TO PLAY? The only answer is that they will eventually sell gear or shortcuts to gear. That is the freemium way.
@Yolokin_Swagonborn
Players playing earns no money for ZOS.
In order for them to make money, they need either new game sales or crown store sales. You already own the game and are not likely to buy another copy once a year.
Therefore you will be forced to grind for new gear and levels and hopefully find it annoying enough to spend money on a sub and/or experience gain enhancers in the crown store.
They could sell a large expansion with new levels , content and gear once a year and make plenty of money without having to sell any exp boosters. I would gladly pay for that as well as new DLC.
People would complain there would be no content though because of having to wait a year for it. It seems a lot of people have the "Me me me" mindset when it comes to this game that if their needs aren't met, they throw a tantrum about it. Even if they has expansions every year and normal DLC, people would still find something to complain aboutGold Dragons Guildmaster PC-NACR2000+Kalthar Wolf-Brother – EP Templar - 50 Maeli Valen - EP NB - 50Naps-During-Trials – EP Templar - 50Rulnakh - EP Sorc - 50Azrael Krieg - EP NB – 50Uvithasa Telvanni – EP DK – 50More-Tail - EP Warden - 50Narile Galen - EP Sorc - 50Bone Soldier - EP Necro - 50Naps-During-Trails - EP Necro - 500 -
Lynnessa✭✭✭✭Every gain changes levels as it goes. Nothing but to train. The real problem is CP, not the VR increase (Yes they promised it, but almost every game imaginable, business imaginable, and DEFINATELY politics say they will do something and never do.
Hell, people in general do that. How often do people say "Tomorrow I'm gonna...." and then not do it.
As for the VR increase... I have yet to reach vr14 on a character yet. I am extremely casual. I don't really have an opinion on the meta or endgame or balance... but I do think the VR system is confusing and needs to go away, and that the CP system rewards those who spend more time playing, but for the wrong reasons.
0
This discussion has been closed.