The Day ESO Dies

AzraelKrieg

I decided to go ahead and make a topic in regards to what I think would be a decent idea for itemisation with vet rank removal. I would love some feedback on it though.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/190907/crafting-idea-for-the-eventual-removal-of-vet-ranks#latest

Bromburak

SC0TY999 wrote: »

...

Of course platforms like glassdoor work very well because you can say anything bad about an employer but keep in mind that most people that are satisfied or just do their job less emotional barely use these platforms. Glassdoor is not a reference especially not when it comes to identity checks.

Statements like "They decided to outsource most of the work which shows in final product." are silly. I know its hard for employees but outsourcing is part of the business and release cycles.
As well when it comes to lay offs. This is not funny if you are the one who needs to make such decisions.

We know that a company is not perfect and that investors want to see numbers but there is a reason why Bethesda/Zenimax is successful and independent. If you can survive in this industry without having EA, Blizzard etc. in your brand congratulations, you must be pretty stable. You might should think about it.

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

SC0TY999

Bromburak wrote: »

SC0TY999 wrote: »

...

Of course platforms like glassdoor work very well because you can say anything bad about an employer but keep in mind that most people that are satisfied or just do their job less emotional barely use these platforms. Glassdoor is not a reference especially not when it comes to identity checks.

Statements like "They decided to outsource most of the work which shows in final product." are silly. I know its hard for employees but outsourcing is part of the business and release cycles.
As well when it comes to lay offs. This is not funny if you are the one who needs to make such decisions.

We know that a company is not perfect and that investors want to see numbers but there is a reason why Bethesda/Zenimax is successful and independent. If you can survive in this industry without having EA, Blizzard etc. in your brand congratulations, you must be pretty stable. You might should think about it.

I don't take everything they say as fact but instead with a pinch of salt.

A list of bugs, too many to mention and the launcher is still broken which to me says a lot.

To put Bethesda / Zenimax is incorrect they're 2 separate entities and I know why Bethesda is successful because they make great games and that's the name Zenimax has behind them, like having EA, Blizzard etc....

Until ESO I've never heard of Zenimax Online Studios???

Here's a list according to IGN of games they've developed!

http://uk.ign.com/companies/zenimax-online-studios


However everything is a matter of opinion and every human being is entitled to their own

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

debranz

Hi

Thanks for the post Deltia - love your work:) I've been here since Beta - I adored the early game but agree with the last post

WE NEED NEW CONTENT

V16? CP's, Psychic Ambrosia (pleeeease!)! - ploys to keep us all busy and 'waste time' doing the same old stuff. If consoles have stretched ZOS's resources, why can't we solo end of game content and dungs, (as an option) at the very least and work on our skills? I'm seeing more and more "bored" comments - I'm bored....if there are any developers still working for ZOS with some of their soul intact - LEAVE create something new for the 'grown up' players - the way things are going, you'll have no competition.

Beleron

granty2008cyb16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thank you, everyone, for taking the time to give us your feedback, and for keeping it constructive. We'll be sure to pass this along to the appropriate teams to read over.

if this post was buy anyone else you would of locked it by now XD

LOL. Yeah to us that was kinda.........

Faulgor

debranz wrote: »

WE NEED NEW CONTENT

New content won't matter when it's as rewarding as Craglorn (meaning, not at all) and when the playerbase remains as split as it is with veteran ranks and champion points. Everything past level 50 is a mess, and a few new quests won't change that.

Bromburak

SC0TY999 wrote: »

To put Bethesda / Zenimax is incorrect they're 2 separate entities and I know why Bethesda is successful because they make great games and that's the name Zenimax has behind them, like having EA, Blizzard etc....

Again, if you want to stay independent and survive without EA, Activison Blizzard in this industry you must have a strong portfolio and stable investors or you gone like most of the others in the last years.
From this perspective Zenimax and Bethesda are doing very well so far.

I am out now , because this is far OT.

Junipus

Where's Anonymous and lulzsec when you need them to find out what ZOS are up to

IcyDeadPeople

Agree with some of the comments above by @Sypher @jluchau and others.

The champion point system is very clever and elegantly designed. It enhances enjoyment of progressing further once you have already reached max level, and provides a way for us to start new characters out at a similar level of progression.

When I get a few champion points and spend them on some of the passives, it's fun to navigate the constellation UI and choose where I want to spend them. The results are noticeable in game, and it actually feels like I'm progressing.

However, now ESO starts to feel like a job where I need to log on every day and grind champion points instead of spending time doing what I really enjoy about this game, which is PvP in Cyrodiil.

ESO is my first MMO, so I have no idea whether this kind of treadmill loop to keep grinding is a necessary part of this genre, but if max CP was lower (for example 1000), I would prefer to just grind to max CP and never worry about it again.

Some have argued that these levels are necessary for new content updates, or to always have some goalpost out there so people don't get bored with the game.

I don't have any interest in PVE content. For me ESO is more like a medieval siege warfare game with a really cool PVP combat system. I would be perfectly happy at max level, with max CP, just playing the open world PVP sandbox in Cyrodiil, and it wouldn't even bother me if there was never any new content. We make our own content in the Alliance War. My "main quest" is just to practice PVP and become a better player.

Prior to 1.6, I got busy with work and took a break from the game for 8 months. Came back, grinded up from level V12 to V14 in a few hours, took some time to figure out a new build and test it on PTS - that was all I needed to do to "catch up" with everybody else and become at least somewhat competitive in Cyrodiil again.

Most of us who play ESO are not going to be able to consistently play every day for the next few years. For PVE content, I really don't care if others get a big lead over me; however, it seems it won't be so easy to catch up in PVP anymore if I need to take a break for a few months and come back.

Would be great if there were much faster XP/CP gains from PVP, and extension to the enlightenment that makes it easy to catch up if you need to take time off from the game (more than 12 days).

I don't mind grinding up a few new VR levels once in a while, but when I come home from work, I want to relax and have fun with the game just fighting other players in Cyrodiil for a few hours. I don't want to come home and then log on to another job to grind champion points =P

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

P3ZZL3

Have to be honest here. this was 14 pages of hard work reading through it all.

• As far as I can tell, @Deltia has summed up what many have been saying for a long time.
• ZOS have been ignoring all those people for a long time
• The "Nay sayers" back then are now being proved right
• @Deltia decides to post something as, basically, his lively-hood is being threatened (bad ZOS choices = no players = no followers)
• ZOS are not complete idiots. When there largest streamer and publicity channel makes a complaint, they listen
• We now enter a time of damage limitation where in reality, what they release will never be good enough
• There is little to no chance of them fixing the core issues due to them being ingrained in the game

For most people who just play the game for the sake of lore, for role playing, for general immersion in the PVE side none of this really makes any difference to them.

For the min/maxers our there, sure, there's a large cost in terms of refitting your Toon, but then, it's not as though those people are short of gold anyhows.

For the PVE Trialists, the CP's make a hell of a difference in terms of burning down/through the Trials. As mentioned, there are Guilds who expect a certain amount of CP's. Well, these guys do sit in the min/max environment.

As for PVP, keep the v16 and remove usage of CP's. You are removing the buffs from PVP in PVE - so no reason why it can't be done the other way round. By having the 2 separate tables you can then nerf/buff skills separately based on the community.

@ZOS_GinaBruno / @ZOS_RichLambert / @ZOS in General - I would strongly suggest you folks put together an emergancy ESO Live discussion this coming Friday and speak to the community and let them know what's going on and how you guys feel about these reactions. Because quite frankly, if people continue to get frustrated and ignored and leave, well, more of you are likely to consider.....other options....

Bromburak

Spectral_Lord wrote: »

A company that focuses on the money, focuses on the wrong motivator.

Thats what happens when investors are deciders.

They don't care about games or the vision it has, their focus is the overall value of the company because they want to raise the companies overall value to make the big bucks with acquisitions. In other words the company is the product and not the game they make.

Thats the problem with most enterprises today.

SC0TY999

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Have to be honest here. this was 14 pages of hard work reading through it all.

• As far as I can tell, @Deltia has summed up what many have been saying for a long time.
• ZOS have been ignoring all those people for a long time
• The "Nay sayers" back then are now being proved right
• @Deltia decides to post something as, basically, his lively-hood is being threatened (bad ZOS choices = no players = no followers)
• ZOS are not complete idiots. When there largest streamer and publicity channel makes a complaint, they listen
• We now enter a time of damage limitation where in reality, what they release will never be good enough
• There is little to no chance of them fixing the core issues due to them being ingrained in the game

For most people who just play the game for the sake of lore, for role playing, for general immersion in the PVE side none of this really makes any difference to them.

For the min/maxers our there, sure, there's a large cost in terms of refitting your Toon, but then, it's not as though those people are short of gold anyhows.

For the PVE Trialists, the CP's make a hell of a difference in terms of burning down/through the Trials. As mentioned, there are Guilds who expect a certain amount of CP's. Well, these guys do sit in the min/max environment.

As for PVP, keep the v16 and remove usage of CP's. You are removing the buffs from PVP in PVE - so no reason why it can't be done the other way round. By having the 2 separate tables you can then nerf/buff skills separately based on the community.

@ZOS_GinaBruno / @ZOS_RichLambert / @ZOS in General - I would strongly suggest you folks put together an emergancy ESO Live discussion this coming Friday and speak to the community and let them know what's going on and how you guys feel about these reactions. Because quite frankly, if people continue to get frustrated and ignored and leave, well, more of you are likely to consider.....other options....

Very nicely put!

Unfortunately for me, it's too little too late I've already quit the game and will not be returning

But for the rest of ZOS's player base (what's left that is) ZOS need to start listening to the community they've been ignored for far too long and as a result the game is in a huge mess!

SC0TY999

Bethesda is just the publisher of ESO (as EA or Blizzard would be to a game they didn't produce but just published) they have a very strong portfolio which is what Zenimax needed, they have had absolutely nothing to do with the development of ESO that is solely Zenimax.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Discussing Disciplinary Actions]

kenpachi480

against VR increase, because every time it destroys my build, i will have to fetch new gear,. new enchantments, do some grinding for a day,. i dont see the use,.

Bromburak

SC0TY999 wrote: »

Bethesda is just the publisher of ESO (as EA or Blizzard would be to a game they didn't produce but just published) they have a very strong portfolio which is what Zenimax needed, they have had absolutely nothing to do with the development of ESO that is solely Zenimax.

It wasn't about gaming company structure it was about the fact that there are not many companies left that can coexist succesfully in a market of giants with EA or Activision Blizzard. So apparently Zenimax knows what they are doing to survive.

Thats the point you obviously still don't understand from a business perspective, otherwise you wouldn't post glassdoor links to leave the impression that ZOS is a bad company.

No wonder they delete your posts, because this is not free speech, its defamation.

SC0TY999

Bromburak wrote: »

SC0TY999 wrote: »

Bethesda is just the publisher of ESO (as EA or Blizzard would be to a game they didn't produce but just published) they have a very strong portfolio which is what Zenimax needed, they have had absolutely nothing to do with the development of ESO that is solely Zenimax.

It wasn't about gaming company structure it was about the fact that there are not many companies left that can coexist succesfully in a market of giants with EA or Activision Blizzard. So apparently Zenimax knows what they are doing to survive.

Thats the point you obviously still don't understand from a business perspective, otherwise you wouldn't post glassdoor links to leave the impression that ZOS is a bad company.

No wonder they delete your posts, because this is not free speech, its defamation.

Free speech is free speech I can say what I like even if you don't like it

Let's see if Zenimax know what there doing when this game is soon to be finished.

slipHAZARD

Bromburak wrote: »

SC0TY999 wrote: »

Bethesda is just the publisher of ESO (as EA or Blizzard would be to a game they didn't produce but just published) they have a very strong portfolio which is what Zenimax needed, they have had absolutely nothing to do with the development of ESO that is solely Zenimax.

It wasn't about gaming company structure it was about the fact that there are not many companies left that can coexist succesfully in a market of giants with EA or Activision Blizzard. So apparently Zenimax knows what they are doing to survive.

Thats the point you obviously still don't understand from a business perspective, otherwise you wouldn't post glassdoor links to leave the impression that ZOS is a bad company.

No wonder they delete your posts, because this is not free speech, its defamation.

I think you're not understanding his point. How can you say it's apparent that Zenimax knows what they are doing in order to stay alive, when they have only ever worked on 1 game which was released only last year.

You keep lumping Zenimax and Bethesda in the same boat. Bethesda has been around for years, they have built up a strong portfolio and reputation. It's the reason why they can have their own conference at E3.

Zenimax hasn't. They don't have a strong portfolio. They have 1 game that by general public standards wasn't very good and failed. And as much as I do enjoy the game, I honestly can't see them working on another game in the future, based on how they have handled ESO. Bethesda will continue to support them because ESO is part of the ES franchise but as far as Zenimax "coexisting" with EA or Activision. Not even close.

Kingof green

I mean no disrespect to delta but it's just stupid that when some high profile person says something suddenly nearly everyone agrees. not many people where complaining about the Champion Point System but now, after this thread from a famous figure in the ESO community there's gonna be outcry, well done!.

sadownik

Kingof green wrote: »

I mean no disrespect to delta but it's just stupid that when some high profile person says something suddenly nearly everyone agrees. not many people where complaining about the Champion Point System but now, after this thread from a famous figure in the ESO community there's gonna be outcry, well done!.

Many people were complaining, but it always got either birried or simply deleted, thanks to people derailing the thread right inot oblivion.

SC0TY999

Kingof green wrote: »

I mean no disrespect to delta but it's just stupid that when some high profile person says something suddenly nearly everyone agrees. not many people where complaining about the Champion Point System but now, after this thread from a famous figure in the ESO community there's gonna be outcry, well done!.

A lot of the community did have problems with the champion system just after its release, if I could be bothered I would find some old posts or threads with issues that were raised back then.

It's more funny to see that now someone with a name and following the thread starts to get attention from ZOS rather than closed or bumped to the bottom.

No disrespect to Deltia! It's nice that someone with influence stand up and fight for the community.

ZOS were warned about the CP system a long time ago.


Lets get back on topic

azoriangaming

SC0TY999 wrote: »

Kingof green wrote: »

I mean no disrespect to delta but it's just stupid that when some high profile person says something suddenly nearly everyone agrees. not many people where complaining about the Champion Point System but now, after this thread from a famous figure in the ESO community there's gonna be outcry, well done!.

A lot of the community did have problems with the champion system just after its release, if I could be bothered I would find some old posts or threads with issues that were raised back then.

It's more funny to see that now someone with a name and following the thread starts to get attention from ZOS rather than closed or bumped to the bottom.

No disrespect to Deltia! It's nice that someone with influence stand up and fight for the community.

ZOS were warned about the CP system a long time ago.


Lets get back on topic

woah man you can't have your own opinions about things on here the carebear bunch will come and silence you

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

Kingof green wrote: »

I mean no disrespect to delta but it's just stupid that when some high profile person says something suddenly nearly everyone agrees. not many people where complaining about the Champion Point System but now, after this thread from a famous figure in the ESO community there's gonna be outcry, well done!.

About everyone who thought about the CP system for more than a minute came up with those concerns while it was still on PTS.

Bromburak

slipHAZARD wrote: »

How can you say it's apparent that Zenimax knows what they are doing in order to stay alive, when they have only ever worked on 1 game which was released only last year.

Because they didn't end up in a merge or becoming indies yet for a reason.

Kingof green

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

SC0TY999 wrote: »

Kingof green wrote: »

I mean no disrespect to delta but it's just stupid that when some high profile person says something suddenly nearly everyone agrees. not many people where complaining about the Champion Point System but now, after this thread from a famous figure in the ESO community there's gonna be outcry, well done!.

A lot of the community did have problems with the champion system just after its release, if I could be bothered I would find some old posts or threads with issues that were raised back then.

It's more funny to see that now someone with a name and following the thread starts to get attention from ZOS rather than closed or bumped to the bottom.

No disrespect to Deltia! It's nice that someone with influence stand up and fight for the community.

ZOS were warned about the CP system a long time ago.


Lets get back on topic

woah man you can't have your own opinions about things on here the carebear bunch will come and silence you

I don't mind other people having there opinion if that was directed at me.

mousekime111rwb17_ESO

You know, they could just put a cap on CP so that you get a maxed out minor constellation on every major one or even enough CP to get a maxed out tree and a half. (525 and 788 respectively) and add in an extra milestone passive every 6 months or so 25 CP further down the tree (adding 75 or 115 CP to the cap each 'level cap raise')

slipHAZARD

Bromburak wrote: »

slipHAZARD wrote: »

How can you say it's apparent that Zenimax knows what they are doing in order to stay alive, when they have only ever worked on 1 game which was released only last year.

Because they didn't end up in a merge or becoming indies yet for a reason.

lol wut?

They can't go "indie" or "merge" because ZoS is owned by ZeniMax Media. If anything ZoS will probably be disbanded and it's employees shuffled around to other divisions of ZeniMax Media whether it's Bethesda or some other subsidiary (id software etc) .

And I am not saying this WILL happen or should happen, I sincerely hope it doesn't. I'm just saying if things don't work out well for ZoS it's a possible scenario.

Bromburak

slipHAZARD wrote: »

They can't go "indie" or "merge" because ZoS is owned by ZeniMax Media.

It doesn't matter how you want to turn or name it, you need to be financial stable or you fail like many others before, very simple.

RazielSR

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Have to be honest here. this was 14 pages of hard work reading through it all.

• As far as I can tell, @Deltia has summed up what many have been saying for a long time.
• ZOS have been ignoring all those people for a long time
• The "Nay sayers" back then are now being proved right
• @Deltia decides to post something as, basically, his lively-hood is being threatened (bad ZOS choices = no players = no followers)
• ZOS are not complete idiots. When there largest streamer and publicity channel makes a complaint, they listen
• We now enter a time of damage limitation where in reality, what they release will never be good enough
• There is little to no chance of them fixing the core issues due to them being ingrained in the game

For most people who just play the game for the sake of lore, for role playing, for general immersion in the PVE side none of this really makes any difference to them.

For the min/maxers our there, sure, there's a large cost in terms of refitting your Toon, but then, it's not as though those people are short of gold anyhows.

For the PVE Trialists, the CP's make a hell of a difference in terms of burning down/through the Trials. As mentioned, there are Guilds who expect a certain amount of CP's. Well, these guys do sit in the min/max environment.

As for PVP, keep the v16 and remove usage of CP's. You are removing the buffs from PVP in PVE - so no reason why it can't be done the other way round. By having the 2 separate tables you can then nerf/buff skills separately based on the community.

@ZOS_GinaBruno / @ZOS_RichLambert / @ZOS in General - I would strongly suggest you folks put together an emergancy ESO Live discussion this coming Friday and speak to the community and let them know what's going on and how you guys feel about these reactions. Because quite frankly, if people continue to get frustrated and ignored and leave, well, more of you are likely to consider.....other options....

Well, I really think this people you mention and others are looking for another job maybe.
Do you really think they all have a positive opinion about zos?
Look at Sage for example,and others. They just left. It is normal.

P3ZZL3

RazielSR wrote: »

Well, I really think these people you mention and others are looking for another job maybe.
Do you really think they all have a positive opinion about zos?
Look ar Sage for example and others. they just left. It is normal.

I suspect there is a mixed mind set right now in the business. But as everyone knows, unless you are in the executive board, you must tow the company line. You'll have various NDA's that you've signed when joining either letting/not letting you comment on certain things.

From a community perspective, I doubt many are looking around. there's frustrations, but then you also have the element of community engagement. When you are in the headlights from a marketing/media perspective, it's generally harder to replace someone. The community notice it very clearly and it has an immediate impact.

When it's someone from behind the scenes, you'll tend to try to bury/delay the news. Have a backup plan in place. Look at how the "Where is Paul Sage" threads were treated....hmmm...I wonder @ZOS_PaulSage <--- HAHA!

The other aspect is, who actually came up with the CP System in the first place. The problem is, without thought or question from the community (AFAIK?) they created the CPS. This involved a LOT of time, money and investment to make it happen. This was a big deal. It was the incremental advancement with a view to replacing the innermost workings of the system, Veteran Ranks. Then, when it goes on to PTS, they are expecting everyone to go "Wow, amazing, this is awesome" and some did....but other more experienced MMO'ers said "ermmm....hang on" and raised some logical issues that would happen further down the line.

The management team no doubt took an executive view "Well, we've already spent the money and we need it to work, so we have to push it through anyhows". The money boys were no doubt demanding it as well.

Then came the full on assault on Console, dropping any updates/upgrades/fixes to push out console *shrugs*