No to VR16

newtinmpls

Francis_Toliver wrote: »

I think my way is way better than your way. Zos seems to agree! I think they like me more than they like you!

Thanks a lot for the coffee all over my desk. Apparently I'm not used to a sense of humor this early in the morning

I'll see you the "likes me best" and raise you "I'm TEEEELLLIIINNGG"

PS since I don't even have anyone to V10 which was the original "top" I guess I'm just not going to worry all that much.

trystephen

I have spent three months and 750,000 gold acquiring my VR14 gear. Please do not devalue my labor by creating more VR ranks. Please. It was so much work.

rfennell_ESO

I don't see much issue in VR16. I mean it's 2 vr levels, big whoop. Everyone crying about it will have it done in one day probably, the people that don't care either way will have it done within a week. Even regearing, eh how much statistical difference do you really think there is between vr14 gear and vr16 gear? There isn't much between vr12 and vr14.

Even so, I wouldn't mind the ability to upgrade equipment in vr rank. That couldn't be that hard to include, and really resource-wise make it costly or something. Upgrading to legendary gives about as much a boost as upgrading vr rank. So how about letting people upgrade both quality and rank ZOS? Make it bound items only or something.

As for "the grind", well... it's not really that much of a grind. If you like pvp or pve it will actually happen without you doing anything different at all, if you are not impulsive.

I guess I'm overall of the "it's not really a big deal" mind set on it, mostly because it really isn't a big deal.

andrantos

I understand that the removal of VR is complicated because of they way these are itemized. While CP provide that alternative, long term vertical advancement, there really isn't a good way to itemize that system (nor should it ever be).

However, given how much unappreciated the VR system, I am alarmed that ZOS would sooner add more ranks and more itemization then remove them.

Given how much improved the endgame could be without them, such as de-linearizing Caldwell Silver and Gold, I would like to think this is a priority.

I do understand the priority of pushing out new content in favor of VR removal, especially given how neglected some PC users feel in the face of the console launches.

I already fear that ZOS is positioning VR to remain as is indefinitely.

patrykplawskib16_ESO

There's a upside and a down side to this change. The upside is that we will be more powerful if you think about it. We will have 2 extra attribute points so about a 222 increase in what ever you spec, are weapons will give us more sp and wp damage. Our enchants will all together give maybe almost a 300 increase again in what you enchant for. The base damage of our abilities will be increased and we will be able to blow thru vet dungeons to get our gold keys faster.

The downside; its a pretty huge down side all of our sunset, morong tong, cyridel light rings, shadow walker rings, ravager gear, all of our hard earned gear just went to *** and all the guys who don't have that gold to get a new set going for the next update is going to be devastated. At the same time a phew players have been saving including me at 2 million cause I knew this day would come so better to be prepared than disappointed. Not just that but the vr14 gear we acquired from trials like infallible aether or viscous of ofidian went down the drain and is obsolete again! When originally they were buffing the end game gear to be better.

Arato

patrykplawskib16_ESO wrote: »

There's a upside and a down side to this change. The upside is that we will be more powerful if you think about it. We will have 2 extra attribute points so about a 222 increase in what ever you spec, are weapons will give us more sp and wp damage. Our enchants will all together give maybe almost a 300 increase again in what you enchant for. The base damage of our abilities will be increased and we will be able to blow thru vet dungeons to get our gold keys faster.

The downside; its a pretty huge down side all of our sunset, morong tong, cyridel light rings, shadow walker rings, ravager gear, all of our hard earned gear just went to *** and all the guys who don't have that gold to get a new set going for the next update is going to be devastated. At the same time a phew players have been saving including me at 2 million cause I knew this day would come so better to be prepared than disappointed. Not just that but the vr14 gear we acquired from trials like infallible aether or viscous of ofidian went down the drain and is obsolete again! When originally they were buffing the end game gear to be better.

and you'll be doing content where the mobs are scaled up past that., so not really more powerful afterall. It's an illusion.

qsnoopyjr

But if V15 and V16 get new armor models... Why not??
New armor models are great!

Iluvrien

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

But if V15 and V16 get new armor models... Why not??
New armor models are great!

It is possible to add new armour models without adding new levels. They are just choosing not to.

This is what I would like to see though. Horizontal progression.

Speaking for myself, we already have enough vertical progression at the moment with the cp system.

Surely there are new armour designs, set bonuses or even brand new effects that they could add to incentivise the content that may or may not become available with the IC.

I believe that it doesn't always have to be about power creep.

KatzMainTank

Arato

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

But if V15 and V16 get new armor models... Why not??
New armor models are great!

New armor models don't require a raised cap. What would be better is a cosmetics/transmutation system.

ZOS has the ability to make one, I mean imperial system owners can transmog things to imperial skin (we really need to be able to do that with dropped set gear like footman though..)

Amsel_McKay

Arato wrote: »

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

But if V15 and V16 get new armor models... Why not??
New armor models are great!

New armor models don't require a raised cap. What would be better is a cosmetics/transmutation system.

ZOS has the ability to make one, I mean imperial system owners can transmog things to imperial skin (we really need to be able to do that with dropped set gear like footman though..)

I think the crown store covers almost all future cosmetics. Why create free content anymore, if people will buy it?

spoqster

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Of all the things that bother me (mostly "everything for a limited time" crown store whale milking), this probably bothers me the least.

Please answer me, what the hell difference does it make if you are veteran level 16, or level 75?

You have to get new gear either way. This is true with expansion level cap raising in ANY game. The numbers are purely cosmetic; it literally means NOTHING whether it is level 75 or Veteran 16 or Taco 43. It is a meaningless designation of rank.

People obsessed over the removal of veteran ranks have yet to give me a single decent argument as to why.

The best I can think of is that they want cross-faction zones where you can flag as PVP and each faction has its own UNIQUE quest hubs, instead of the Cadwell Time Warp, and I would like this too. I just don't think ZOS wants to invest the money in that sort of overhaul.

Not when people are willing to throw money at mount skins to "support the company." Where is the incentive to EARN out loyalty?

Nobody is asking to remove veteran levels just to replace them with levels 51 to 75. We just want the veteran levels gone with a max level of 50.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

spoqster wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Of all the things that bother me (mostly "everything for a limited time" crown store whale milking), this probably bothers me the least.

Please answer me, what the hell difference does it make if you are veteran level 16, or level 75?

You have to get new gear either way. This is true with expansion level cap raising in ANY game. The numbers are purely cosmetic; it literally means NOTHING whether it is level 75 or Veteran 16 or Taco 43. It is a meaningless designation of rank.

People obsessed over the removal of veteran ranks have yet to give me a single decent argument as to why.

The best I can think of is that they want cross-faction zones where you can flag as PVP and each faction has its own UNIQUE quest hubs, instead of the Cadwell Time Warp, and I would like this too. I just don't think ZOS wants to invest the money in that sort of overhaul.

Not when people are willing to throw money at mount skins to "support the company." Where is the incentive to EARN out loyalty?

Nobody is asking to remove veteran levels just to replace them with levels 51 to 75. We just want the veteran levels gone with a max level of 50.

So you want everyone who earned the vet ranks to instantly be nerfed back to lvl 50? Is this also on top of them removing champ points or no?

Amsel_McKay

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

spoqster wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Of all the things that bother me (mostly "everything for a limited time" crown store whale milking), this probably bothers me the least.

Please answer me, what the hell difference does it make if you are veteran level 16, or level 75?

You have to get new gear either way. This is true with expansion level cap raising in ANY game. The numbers are purely cosmetic; it literally means NOTHING whether it is level 75 or Veteran 16 or Taco 43. It is a meaningless designation of rank.

People obsessed over the removal of veteran ranks have yet to give me a single decent argument as to why.

The best I can think of is that they want cross-faction zones where you can flag as PVP and each faction has its own UNIQUE quest hubs, instead of the Cadwell Time Warp, and I would like this too. I just don't think ZOS wants to invest the money in that sort of overhaul.

Not when people are willing to throw money at mount skins to "support the company." Where is the incentive to EARN out loyalty?

Nobody is asking to remove veteran levels just to replace them with levels 51 to 75. We just want the veteran levels gone with a max level of 50.

So you want everyone who earned the vet ranks to instantly be nerfed back to lvl 50? Is this also on top of them removing champ points or no?

That is the problem with adding more and more people will lose more and more when they get rid of vet ranks... so it seems that they will not get rid of them now.

spoqster

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

spoqster wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Of all the things that bother me (mostly "everything for a limited time" crown store whale milking), this probably bothers me the least.

Please answer me, what the hell difference does it make if you are veteran level 16, or level 75?

You have to get new gear either way. This is true with expansion level cap raising in ANY game. The numbers are purely cosmetic; it literally means NOTHING whether it is level 75 or Veteran 16 or Taco 43. It is a meaningless designation of rank.

People obsessed over the removal of veteran ranks have yet to give me a single decent argument as to why.

The best I can think of is that they want cross-faction zones where you can flag as PVP and each faction has its own UNIQUE quest hubs, instead of the Cadwell Time Warp, and I would like this too. I just don't think ZOS wants to invest the money in that sort of overhaul.

Not when people are willing to throw money at mount skins to "support the company." Where is the incentive to EARN out loyalty?

Nobody is asking to remove veteran levels just to replace them with levels 51 to 75. We just want the veteran levels gone with a max level of 50.

So you want everyone who earned the vet ranks to instantly be nerfed back to lvl 50? Is this also on top of them removing champ points or no?

First of all it is not a nerf if it is applied to everyone. It is simply a rebalancing. And yes, people will cry out because they will feel cheated for the effort they put in, but the second they realise that

• it makes it much easier and quicker to pull up an alt
• they can be competitive in pvp much quicker
• they can turn in their gold keys as soon as they get them and don't have to wait until v16
• they can swap gear between characters much easier
• they can spend more time playing the game, as opposed to farming for gear and grinding

they will be very happy about it. And that is on top of all the newbies, who will be very happy they don't have to level to v16.

And yes, I dislike the Champion System. I don't dislike infinite progression systems in general, I am rather fond of the idea. The Champion System in it's current iteration is simply too vertical. They need to transform it into a horizontal progression system.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

lol so you call removing weeks of earned xp "rebalancing" eh? Im glad you arent in charge. You want to see a bunch of people make a mass exodus for the door remove all the progress they made from launch until now. Where do you guys come up with this nonsense? lol

spoqster

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

lol so you call removing weeks of earned xp "rebalancing" eh? Im glad you arent in charge. You want to see a bunch of people make a mass exodus for the door remove all the progress they made from launch until now. Where do you guys come up with this nonsense? lol

You don't get it. Nobody loses anything. The difference in power between you and your other v14 mates will be exactly the same after they take out the vet ranks.

And it's not progress either. Character levels are just and illusion of progress and power. The real progress you made leveling from v1 to v14 is the improvement of your player skill. You are likely to be better at this game than a fresh v1. And nobody can take that skill away from you.

Rinmaethodain

"Nobody is asking to remove veteran levels just to replace them with levels 51 to 75. We just want the veteran levels gone with a max level of 50. "

For posts like this there should be a "rofl" button.

This is the essence of "I dont want to spent my time lvling so instead of me, playing game and gaining levels, i want devs to bring everyone who decided on their own what to do with their time and spend it on leveling, be brought back to lvl50. This way i wont even have to move my finger and suddenly ill be max lvl."

I dont know about everyone here, but imo wanting to achieve something (max lvl, being competitive in pvp, pulling up another alt [but why for? you can do everything with one char] without actually working and only by taking away someones work - is called being lazy, selfish and jealous. You can be even called an ***.

Like in situation where you have a crappy car because you have crappy job while your neighbour have better job so he has a better car. Yet instead of improving yourself you start propagating a law that will take away your neighbours car so you can be happy that just like you, he will have now a crappy car.

"they can spend more time playing the game, as opposed to farming for gear and grinding"

LOL. Reducing them to lvl50 will make them spend more time playing game? And what do you think people do when they lvl up from VR1 to soon (thank ZOS) VR16? Sitting on couch and eating potatoes?

You think that iv everyone will be nerfed to lvl50 they will magically obtain all gear? There will be still grind for lvl50 gear. Drop your delusions please and grow up.

Everyone can play game just like they want. They can lvl up, they can stay at same lvl and avoid exp at all cost but just because you dont want to gain exp and lvl up, dont try to be an anchor that will bring everyone down to your level just because you feel entitled to be a "Max lvl" but you dont want to put any work into getting there.

spoqster

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

lol so you call removing weeks of earned xp "rebalancing" eh? Im glad you arent in charge. You want to see a bunch of people make a mass exodus for the door remove all the progress they made from launch until now. Where do you guys come up with this nonsense? lol

And by the way, the last max exodus I saw on ESO was when they increased the level cap the last time. People got so p***d off and demotivated, that they simply didn't play anymore. Especially the former WoW players left in droves, because they are sooooo tired of the treadmill.

It's 2015 man. Wake up! Nobody wants themeparks and treadmills anymore. Nobody every wanted that, but back when WoW hit the market there was no alternative. But it's a different time now. There are plenty of great sandbox games out there and games with brilliant horizontal progression systems. ESO is not going to stand a chance against them if they stick to game mechanics from the last decade.

spoqster

MaximusDargus wrote: »

"Nobody is asking to remove veteran levels just to replace them with levels 51 to 75. We just want the veteran levels gone with a max level of 50. "

For posts like this there should be a "rofl" button.

This is the essence of "I dont want to spent my time lvling so instead of me, playing game and gaining levels, i want devs to bring everyone who decided on their own what to do with their time and spend it on leveling, be brought back to lvl50. This way i wont even have to move my finger and suddenly ill be max lvl."

I dont know about everyone here, but imo wanting to achieve something (max lvl, being competitive in pvp, pulling up another alt [but why for? you can do everything with one char] without actually working and only by taking away someones work - is called being lazy, selfish and jealous. You can be even called an ***.

Like in situation where you have a crappy car because you have crappy job while your neighbour have better job so he has a better car. Yet instead of improving yourself you start propagating a law that will take away your neighbours car so you can be happy that just like you, he will have now a crappy car.

"they can spend more time playing the game, as opposed to farming for gear and grinding"

LOL. Reducing them to lvl50 will make them spend more time playing game? And what do you think people do when they lvl up from VR1 to soon (thank ZOS) VR16? Sitting on couch and eating potatoes?

You think that iv everyone will be nerfed to lvl50 they will magically obtain all gear? There will be still grind for lvl50 gear. Drop your delusions please and grow up.

Everyone can play game just like they want. They can lvl up, they can stay at same lvl and avoid exp at all cost but just because you dont want to gain exp and lvl up, dont try to be an anchor that will bring everyone down to your level just because you feel entitled to be a "Max lvl" but you dont want to put any work into getting there.

You don't seem to get it either. Leveling up is not equivalent to getting better at the game. It's just a mechanism for players to be able to substitute time for learning. You get better by improving your skill.

If I only have a few hours to play the game each week, but I am a good player because I am a quick learner, then it is very demotivating for me to be beat by someone who is not a good player, but traded in hours of time for better damage values.

I just switched over to XBOX after playing a year on PC and started over with a fresh char (even though I could play my v14), and spent the last weeks playing a lot of PVP with all the newcomers. I run one of the best PVP guilds, and the players in my guild just want to play PVP. They want to log on and play for 10 hours straight. They don't want to spend time sorting through their loot, crafting, grinding, running dungeons over and over and over again. Most of them already have a job, so when they come home and switch on their XBOX they just want to play, and they don't want to be less competitive, simply because they don't have the time to go leveling for 8 hours every day in addition to playing PVP. And every single one of them had a feeling of demotivation when he realized how long it takes to level the veteran ranks.

And please don't insult me for having innovative ideas.

Will the removal of the vet ranks be difficult to understand for some? Yes? Will it make the game a better game? Very much so!

Navaya

I've been playing ESO since beta but I stopped reading about the news of this game to avoid more disappointments...
To increase the Vr ranks to 16 is such a poor choice on Zenimax side.
They were talking a lot about removing the Veteran ranks, they seem to talk a lot about doing things but then just going with the easiest choice.
This game is turning more and more into Elder Scrolls Grind Online, not to mention the Champion (farming) system.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

spoqster wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

lol so you call removing weeks of earned xp "rebalancing" eh? Im glad you arent in charge. You want to see a bunch of people make a mass exodus for the door remove all the progress they made from launch until now. Where do you guys come up with this nonsense? lol

You don't get it. Nobody loses anything. The difference in power between you and your other v14 mates will be exactly the same after they take out the vet ranks.

And it's not progress either. Character levels are just and illusion of progress and power. The real progress you made leveling from v1 to v14 is the improvement of your player skill. You are likely to be better at this game than a fresh v1. And nobody can take that skill away from you.

If everything is exactly the same then what is the point of it? The fact is everything wont be the same. So what you want them to do is simply wasted time.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

spoqster wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

lol so you call removing weeks of earned xp "rebalancing" eh? Im glad you arent in charge. You want to see a bunch of people make a mass exodus for the door remove all the progress they made from launch until now. Where do you guys come up with this nonsense? lol

And by the way, the last max exodus I saw on ESO was when they increased the level cap the last time. People got so p***d off and demotivated, that they simply didn't play anymore. Especially the former WoW players left in droves, because they are sooooo tired of the treadmill.

It's 2015 man. Wake up! Nobody wants themeparks and treadmills anymore. Nobody every wanted that, but back when WoW hit the market there was no alternative. But it's a different time now. There are plenty of great sandbox games out there and games with brilliant horizontal progression systems. ESO is not going to stand a chance against them if they stick to game mechanics from the last decade.

If you dont like the game then go buy one of those you do like. All the people playing this game like this game. Its doing very well and there was no mass exodus when they put craglorn quite the opposite actually. People came back did the content and then left again and have been gone for 6 months or more. When they put new content like IC in lots of people will come back. Noone will care about 2 more vet ranks.

global_gbb16_ESO

Quick question for Zenimax - if it is true that you are going to implement VR15 to VR16, what was the point of implementing CP?

Rinmaethodain

"If I only have a few hours to play the game each week, but I am a good player because I am a quick learner, then it is very demotivating for me to be beat by someone who is not a good player, but traded in hours of time for better damage values."

Welcome in the imperfect world. Good for you that youa re quick learner and tech savvy for computers.

But not everyone are like this. They might like games, they like ESO and fantasy but they are just not good at games or multitasking.

Sure, training skill is one way to become better BUT what about those people who are just not made for it? You want to say NO to them and tell them to play somewhere else?
More lvls is just another mean, a tool to become better player. Those who enjoy game but cant grasp the skill of playing it have hope that when they reach higher lvl, get better gear for that lvl and get another attribute point/skill point will be able to finally complete that one thing they are trying so hard.

Dont be selfish and go on like "only skill matters, im pro because i learn quick so everyone will be good with same lvl, because only skill matters".

And once again.
More lvls =/= more grinding. You are very welcomed to stay at any lvl you want and play your game there. But dont interfere with people who like that time the spent in game and exp they gain by actually playing game is going into something worth the time from practical reason or maybe purely aesthetic reason (because who doesn't like big numbers : P )

FlyingApron

I don't want any more vet grind. Vet levels were supposed to be removed back in 1.6. Lie more ZOS.

Rinmaethodain

FlyingApron wrote: »

I don't want any more vet grind. Vet levels were supposed to be removed back in 1.6. Lie more ZOS.

If you dont want any more vet grind you are welcomed to do everything but gaining exp. Do what you usually do in eso, dungeons, exploring, gaining achievements and dont care for exp at all. This way you wont be grinding.

Darkstorne

trystephen wrote: »

I have spent three months and 750,000 gold acquiring my VR14 gear. Please do not devalue my labor by creating more VR ranks. Please. It was so much work.

That's every MMO. Every game. You spend hours of your life improving the bank balance and social standing of a character that doesn't even exist, instead of spending that time on yourself. Even a standard level cap increase would have the same effect.

The issue with VR ranks is that they simply aren't fun to play through (reliant on repetition for game time instead of new content), and they encourage a grind-to-win mentality at the level cap instead of a skill-based game system.

Rysiris

This will solve everyone problem (I think) when they implement the VR16 they should add a new option to upgrade gear at a crafting station to your current level at a cost which it should unlock at VR15 all it should cost is ingots and gold or.... crowns? Just an idea people will still need to grind level but that just add more fun.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Rysiris wrote: »

This will solve everyone problem (I think) when they implement the VR16 they should add a new option to upgrade gear at a crafting station to your current level at a cost which it should unlock at VR15 all it should cost is ingots and gold or.... crowns? Just an idea people will still need to grind level but that just add more fun.

The whole point of new vet ranks is to get NEW gear. If you can just upgrade your old gear why on earth would anyone buy the new areas? What you call "grinding" is playing the game. Leveling up. Advancing your character with new gear etc. If everything always stays the same people get bored and quit. If you are handed things where is the sense of accomplishment?