No to VR16

NobleNerd

Brandalf wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO wrote: »

We do not want this...people want it gone - not increased. What are your thoughts on this?

Speak for yourself. I, for one, am glad that they are expanding the veteran ranks.

Removing veteran ranks was never a possibility. Absolutely everything in the entire game depends on it.

For those who don't want it, sorry. Earn the veteran ranks just like everyone else has.

Yet we've been told on multiple occasion that they would be removed.

Even in the latest ESO Live they still are holding to this fantasy that they plan to remove the VR levels. It is becoming a tell-tale sign that ZOS really has little clue how to advance an MMO. Maybe they should higher more people that actually have developed an MMO instead of treating this game like a single player RPG.

Mr_Bubbely

How about remove veteran ranks, and continue on from level 50? 51 52 53 so on and so forth.

Ajaxduo

WTB moar veteran levels.

Mr_Bubbely

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

I miss the old MMO days when people got excited about the ability to grow stronger in levels, to see the accompanying content, and didn't want everything handed to them when it came.

I was beginning to think I was the only one who thought this. Everyone just complains about every little detail. Boo hoo, the point of an MMORPG is to continually get stronger and better. But everyone's like "new levels? what do you think this is an MMO?"
ESO isnt my first rodeo, and its community seem to not know what an MMO is. That or they are each trying to create a game THEY want, which isnt gonna happen cause an MMO cannot cater to one singular persons desires, but must be fair for everyone.

GamerzElite

I am expecting VR 50 announcement at Gamescom 2018.

J2JMC

Mr_Bubbely wrote: »

How about remove veteran ranks, and continue on from level 50? 51 52 53 so on and so forth.

There is nothing functionally different between lvl 51 and vr2.

LEGENDARYYY

Please watch the whole ESO Live episode before commenting. I agree 100% on almost everything being said there. This game needs more progression atm, and adding VR16 as a temporary solution is a good thing. VR levels will be removed eventually, but it's a huge amount of work and we need new progression while waiting for that to happen.

I found there to be so many good news! Higher XP gain, reduced XP needed for vet ranks, new skills, buffed racials, imperial city. Oh man, can't wait!

WHY ARE YOU WHINING AGAIN?

GJ ZOS!

LtCrunch

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

Please watch the whole ESO Live episode before commenting. I agree 100% on almost everything being said there. This game needs more progression atm, and adding VR16 as a temporary solution is a good thing. VR levels will be removed eventually, but it's a huge amount of work and we need new progression while waiting for that to happen.

I found there to be so many good news! Higher XP gain, reduced XP needed for vet ranks, new skills, buffed racials, imperial city. Oh man, can't wait!

WHY ARE YOU WHINING AGAIN?

GJ ZOS!

We don't need more vet ranks for progression. Additional levels are simply artificial progression. Monster helms and master weapons are a form of progression that promotes build and gameplay variety and it's the type of progression ZOS should be promoting; especially since they've stated they want horizontal progression to replace vertical progression. That would be the first step. Include new, useful and unique sets and items only obtainable within the Imperial City is more than enough to keep people playing that content.

Arato

Mr_Bubbely wrote: »

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

I miss the old MMO days when people got excited about the ability to grow stronger in levels, to see the accompanying content, and didn't want everything handed to them when it came.

I was beginning to think I was the only one who thought this. Everyone just complains about every little detail. Boo hoo, the point of an MMORPG is to continually get stronger and better. But everyone's like "new levels? what do you think this is an MMO?"
ESO isnt my first rodeo, and its community seem to not know what an MMO is. That or they are each trying to create a game THEY want, which isnt gonna happen cause an MMO cannot cater to one singular persons desires, but must be fair for everyone.

You don't actually get stronger though, it's an illusion. The mobs you fight continue to scale with you. Only after you reach the level cap and begin to actually progress your character with horizontal progression systems and gear, does your character really get stronger. Mobs don't scale based on your CP and gear, only your level, so when you stop leveling, the mobs stop scaling with you and you just become more powerful than them.

Are you going back to low level areas and killing trivial mobs to feel a sense of progression on a regular basis? Remember even dungeons scale with you now, so you can't just go solo a dungeon when you're "stronger"

biovitalb16_ESO

Bars wrote: »

sorry guys don't know if asked i didnt read 16 pages , but do you think IC will be pvp only ,because if it is I might as well drop the game now ?

Well bye bye, IC is going to be smack in the middle of Cyrodiil, so yes there will be pvp in it.

Amsel_McKay

Arato wrote: »

Mr_Bubbely wrote: »

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

I miss the old MMO days when people got excited about the ability to grow stronger in levels, to see the accompanying content, and didn't want everything handed to them when it came.

I was beginning to think I was the only one who thought this. Everyone just complains about every little detail. Boo hoo, the point of an MMORPG is to continually get stronger and better. But everyone's like "new levels? what do you think this is an MMO?"
ESO isnt my first rodeo, and its community seem to not know what an MMO is. That or they are each trying to create a game THEY want, which isnt gonna happen cause an MMO cannot cater to one singular persons desires, but must be fair for everyone.

You don't actually get stronger though, it's an illusion. The mobs you fight continue to scale with you. Only after you reach the level cap and begin to actually progress your character with horizontal progression systems and gear, does your character really get stronger. Mobs don't scale based on your CP and gear, only your level, so when you stop leveling, the mobs stop scaling with you and you just become more powerful than them.

Are you going back to low level areas and killing trivial mobs to feel a sense of progression on a regular basis? Remember even dungeons scale with you now, so you can't just go solo a dungeon when you're "stronger"

Yes this is what the problem is you stop leveling with SKILLS... mobs are just scaling after level 50

druezub17_ESO

Raising the VR is fine with me. I love the game and I think the slow VR progression is good as well. makes you earn your high level. This is marathon and not a sprint. There is a ton of stuff to do on the way up to VR ranks, so I don't know what the issue is.

Baragorath

How about all two pieces gear sets from dungs?

Arato

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Mr_Bubbely wrote: »

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

I miss the old MMO days when people got excited about the ability to grow stronger in levels, to see the accompanying content, and didn't want everything handed to them when it came.

I was beginning to think I was the only one who thought this. Everyone just complains about every little detail. Boo hoo, the point of an MMORPG is to continually get stronger and better. But everyone's like "new levels? what do you think this is an MMO?"
ESO isnt my first rodeo, and its community seem to not know what an MMO is. That or they are each trying to create a game THEY want, which isnt gonna happen cause an MMO cannot cater to one singular persons desires, but must be fair for everyone.

You don't actually get stronger though, it's an illusion. The mobs you fight continue to scale with you. Only after you reach the level cap and begin to actually progress your character with horizontal progression systems and gear, does your character really get stronger. Mobs don't scale based on your CP and gear, only your level, so when you stop leveling, the mobs stop scaling with you and you just become more powerful than them.

Are you going back to low level areas and killing trivial mobs to feel a sense of progression on a regular basis? Remember even dungeons scale with you now, so you can't just go solo a dungeon when you're "stronger"

Yes this is what the problem is you stop leveling with SKILLS... mobs are just scaling after level 50

A good point, this game does not dictate what skills you get based on character level, but rather skill level, which caps at 50.

IMO character level for this game is stupid and makes no sense, carving up regions of land and saying "well the mobs here are stronger than the ones here". In the single player games there are some areas like that perhaps but mostly they're caves/dungeons, or particular subzones like the red mountain or grazelands where there's a lot of daedra, but even then it's the mob type rather than mob level and it tends to scale with you most the time. There should be no overall character level to this game, rather just individual skill line levels. You could gate gear based on skill line level rather than overall character level. I guess attribute points and skill points coming from increasing your class's core 3 skill lines. I'd rather see the entire map open to explore at any level and instead of looking at a mob and thinking about what level it is based on zone, you'd gauge it's difficulty based on what it is. If it's a Kwama it's going to be easy, if it's a Daedroth or Storm Atronach it's probably going to be hard.

But that's kind of a sandboxy pipedream, I know.

olsborg

If they gave us an option to increase our gears level, like bump it up from v12 to v16 etc by the use of some resource, id not be totally against vr16, as I am now. Boo.

SC0TY999

olsborg wrote: »

If they gave us an option to increase our gears level, like bump it up from v12 to v16 etc by the use of some resource, id not be totally against vr16, as I am now. Boo.

I was mentioning exactly the same thing a couple of days ago to some friends.

For example if they implemented some improvement mat, that you're able to find / farm (like nirnhoned) that would allow you to upgrade a piece of armor 1 lvl.

Erelah

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

Please watch the whole ESO Live episode before commenting. I agree 100% on almost everything being said there. This game needs more progression atm, and adding VR16 as a temporary solution is a good thing. VR levels will be removed eventually, but it's a huge amount of work and we need new progression while waiting for that to happen.

I found there to be so many good news! Higher XP gain, reduced XP needed for vet ranks, new skills, buffed racials, imperial city. Oh man, can't wait!

WHY ARE YOU WHINING AGAIN?

GJ ZOS!

You are either moving forward or you are moving backwards. Adding VR 16 is moving backwards. Perhaps the shareholders at Zenimax are happy with spending their investment dollars in paying people to work on things which they fully intend to scrap. I simply do not believe it.

It is easier to believe while they stated tier goal is to remove VR they have no plans to do so. If so the new plan would have to be removing VR 15 & VR 16 and any gear of those ranks. If this game was going to have some new progression, why not add in new morphs of skills. The majority of my skills have had the same morph upgrade since level 40ish.

tl;dr

You may feel the game has to be shut down before stating Zenimax has no plans on removing VR Ranks. Most people use past experiences, deductive reasoning, to make an informed decision. Based on everything done, what is being done, it easier to believe Zenimax has no plans of removing VR unless they actually remove it or even start scaling it back.

DominusPax

Cool, so once I see all the content in the three faction areas and finish the main story line I can uninstall? There is zero reason to do VR ranks for PvE only players. zero. I beat the story at level 45 on my only toon I have played so far. I looked at the VR system and laughed. It's the absolutely most uninspired leveling system in MMOs.

What's the impetus for me to keep playing a character past getting the story done? There isn't any. This isn't a loot pinata game. If it were I'd have a reason. I will level up a character in each of the remaining two zones I haven't played through to see all of the wonderful content you guys designed and then wait for new zones.

Terrible decision to raise the cap. *Fill out your game with additional content for VR levels 1-14.* You have a ton of quality content in this game, but everything I hear is that it's really thin in the content dept. for VR ranks. Why would I subject myself to that? I play games to have fun. Your VR system as it stands now sounds like it's anything but fun from what I read and hear from people. Give people engaging enough content that makes them want to play it over and over.

Wargaard

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO wrote: »

We do not want this...people want it gone - not increased. What are your thoughts on this?

Speak for yourself. I, for one, am glad that they are expanding the veteran ranks.

Removing veteran ranks was never a possibility. Absolutely everything in the entire game depends on it.

For those who don't want it, sorry. Earn the veteran ranks just like everyone else has.

Earnt them, several times over. The VR16 ploy is utter BS, never should have been VR's to begin with.

Aside from that, all I got from the ESO Live was the distinct probability of VR levels well beyond VR16. That is game killing.

Sharee

sadownik wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

Getting to top lvl will take more or less the same amount of time either we like it or not. Buffs to xp have no substantial meaning ei.. well you know already.

That largely depends on how you are getting your XP.

For me, the time will be substantially less, because i leveled all my VR characters through cyrodiil dailies, which will now give me 50% more XP, in addition to the VR's now being 15% cheaper to get.

Not to mention i am doing those dailies anyway, for champion XP, so i will get those VRs 'free' - that is, i don't have to do anything i wouldn't be doing anyway, and the 2 veteran ranks will just 'happen' on the side.

Are you sure? As far as ive hear its + 50% to veteran quests .

Eric on live said that what is being increased by 50% is, quote: "all of the quest rewards for veteran ranks" (not veteran quests).
To me that sounds like whether you get 50% more or not depends on whether you are a veteran, not whether you are doing a 'veteran quest'.

We'll see, i guess.

Francis_Toliver

JacksonCarter13 wrote: »

Ok @zos here's a genius idea and bare with me because this is so easy to grasp. Vr ranks gone. Max level is 65. All current vr14 are level 64. You start gaining champion points at level 50. And the new zones drops level 65 gear. Um I don't get why you don't just do this. And then it's done for ever no more problems...

And how is this any different then having the current veteran ranks? Changing the name of the level from vr14 to 64 does nothing but....change the name.

I don't get the whole problem to begin with. Why is this minority of people (most people in the game don't care one way or another) so "frothing at the mouth" about Veteran Ranks? Is it just the pvp crowd? I mean if its just the grinding, then complain about the grinding! If its the imbalance in people that are new to pvp versus people that have been there for a while, then complain about that.

The underlying problem isn't Veteran Ranks and making them disappear isn't going to change those issues. People that grind for champion points will still have an advantage over people that play casually and Zos will still need some mechanic that gives people a sense of progression in the game.

I am really glad I don't PVP! That minority in the game seems to do nothing but complain! I don't mean that as a slam but how miserable an experience is it to spend all your time angry instead of enjoying your life?!?

Zos will do what they will do, if you like it stay and play. If you don't like it, go someplace else and do something you like!

Trying to exert control over a company like Zos though angry rants and screams of "Liars!" is a bit more misery inducing then I would like. Maybe it appeals to the masochists in the crowd or maybe all that venom feels good to some people. Righteous anger and all that conservative doctrine.

Me....I just like playing the game. When I don't like it anymore I'll do something else.

Looking forward to Imperial City and Orsinium. Alot!

Cagro

I agree. Get rid of VR levels DO NOT ADD MORE.

Bromburak

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

Please watch the whole ESO Live episode before commenting. I agree 100% on almost everything being said there. This game needs more progression atm, and adding VR16 as a temporary solution is a good thing. VR levels will be removed eventually, but it's a huge amount of work and we need new progression while waiting for that to happen.

As mentioned before this is not only about liking or not liking a change its about how you communicate with your customers.
They publish news like "We will drop Vet levels in a long run" to spread the impression that we stick with V 14 and then come up with a surprise because it perfectly fits into exp booster strategy to make more money with Crown store.

Sure its legit and you can do that its a business , but i tell you something its not very smart to communicate that way with gamers and customers.

Francis_Toliver

Brandalf wrote: »

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

Please watch the whole ESO Live episode before commenting. I agree 100% on almost everything being said there. This game needs more progression atm, and adding VR16 as a temporary solution is a good thing. VR levels will be removed eventually, but it's a huge amount of work and we need new progression while waiting for that to happen.

I found there to be so many good news! Higher XP gain, reduced XP needed for vet ranks, new skills, buffed racials, imperial city. Oh man, can't wait!

WHY ARE YOU WHINING AGAIN?

GJ ZOS!

We don't need more vet ranks for progression. Additional levels are simply artificial progression. Monster helms and master weapons are a form of progression that promotes build and gameplay variety and it's the type of progression ZOS should be promoting; especially since they've stated they want horizontal progression to replace vertical progression. That would be the first step. Include new, useful and unique sets and items only obtainable within the Imperial City is more than enough to keep people playing that content.

Sooooo, your saying "do it my way"! O.K.

I say we do need vet ranks for progression. Everything in the game is artificial, that is the definition of a "game". New weapons and armor should be linked to new content and advancement in level so we get the fun feeling of advancing! I love that they are allowing BOTH horizontal and vertical progression, why be limited to one! Items that are only obtainable withing the Imperial City and WITH advancement in level will give people even more reason to keep playing and having fun in this very cool game!

I think my way is way better than your way. Zos seems to agree! I think they like me more than they like you!

Whew! That was fun!

Darklord_Tiberius

More kids complaining about V16? Lol. You all must be new to ESO when TU went live. For those of us that have been starved of content since last year, WE DONT CARE. If V16 means new content (ie IC), fixes to PvP campaigns, PvP mechanics balanced and skill/class balances. Holy lord, I'd even welcome it if it were v20!


Here's the thing, nobody cares about how you don't want to level 2 more vet ranks. What the good players in this community care about is quality content and balance fixes; get it?

Tillalarrien

Also agains v16.. And 2 additional v ranks are not necesary for new content.. I would really like to just play new content with fully upgraded gear and build to see how it performs.. And if end goal is still to remove veteran ranks I fail to see thier logic completly.. Also it may not be huge change for players alreday at v14, but for those still slowly getting towards it and for any new players is just an additional 2 levels till they can finally put all their money in legendary gear and experience their build at the fullest..

Also I doubt everyone will be buying IC - and even tough I intend to if it will be good - Those who wont will just get 2 additional levels to grindf.. And IMO even people who will buy it will just mostly just grind 2 levels in pve to be the best in pvp they can be.. So not really levelin on new content but grinding and then new content: as i am not a fan of grinding - why not leave it at 14 and just add a new content?

Amsel_McKay

Arato wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Mr_Bubbely wrote: »

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

I miss the old MMO days when people got excited about the ability to grow stronger in levels, to see the accompanying content, and didn't want everything handed to them when it came.

I was beginning to think I was the only one who thought this. Everyone just complains about every little detail. Boo hoo, the point of an MMORPG is to continually get stronger and better. But everyone's like "new levels? what do you think this is an MMO?"
ESO isnt my first rodeo, and its community seem to not know what an MMO is. That or they are each trying to create a game THEY want, which isnt gonna happen cause an MMO cannot cater to one singular persons desires, but must be fair for everyone.

You don't actually get stronger though, it's an illusion. The mobs you fight continue to scale with you. Only after you reach the level cap and begin to actually progress your character with horizontal progression systems and gear, does your character really get stronger. Mobs don't scale based on your CP and gear, only your level, so when you stop leveling, the mobs stop scaling with you and you just become more powerful than them.

Are you going back to low level areas and killing trivial mobs to feel a sense of progression on a regular basis? Remember even dungeons scale with you now, so you can't just go solo a dungeon when you're "stronger"

Yes this is what the problem is you stop leveling with SKILLS... mobs are just scaling after level 50

A good point, this game does not dictate what skills you get based on character level, but rather skill level, which caps at 50.

IMO character level for this game is stupid and makes no sense, carving up regions of land and saying "well the mobs here are stronger than the ones here". In the single player games there are some areas like that perhaps but mostly they're caves/dungeons, or particular subzones like the red mountain or grazelands where there's a lot of daedra, but even then it's the mob type rather than mob level and it tends to scale with you most the time. There should be no overall character level to this game, rather just individual skill line levels. You could gate gear based on skill line level rather than overall character level. I guess attribute points and skill points coming from increasing your class's core 3 skill lines. I'd rather see the entire map open to explore at any level and instead of looking at a mob and thinking about what level it is based on zone, you'd gauge it's difficulty based on what it is. If it's a Kwama it's going to be easy, if it's a Daedroth or Storm Atronach it's probably going to be hard.

But that's kind of a sandboxy pipedream, I know.

A pipedream I wish a MMO would create someday.

JD2013

It's also a great little business ploy. All those that transferred from PC to console with characters, you all will need to buy the dlc or subscribe on console as well as PC if you want to continue being top in PVP and the such.

Smart.

Arato

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

More kids complaining about V16? Lol. You all must be new to ESO when TU went live. For those of us that have been starved of content since last year, WE DONT CARE. If V16 means new content (ie IC), fixes to PvP campaigns, PvP mechanics balanced and skill/class balances. Holy lord, I'd even welcome it if it were v20!


Here's the thing, nobody cares about how you don't want to level 2 more vet ranks. What the good players in this community care about is quality content and balance fixes; get it?

actually considering how many people abandon this game after reaching VR's and polls showing a majority of players dislike VR's, I'd say you're way off base.

Content doesn't require more leveling, in fact raising the level cap actually causes more problems than it solves in content delivery, as with the gear from AA and Veteran Dungeons being VR12, people won't want it at VR16, so people may not run some of that content anymore. Happens with MMO's that raise their level cap, it's not a content EXPANSION, it's a content REPLACEMENT.

Zorrashi

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

More kids complaining about V16? Lol. You all must be new to ESO when TU went live. For those of us that have been starved of content since last year, WE DONT CARE. If V16 means new content (ie IC), fixes to PvP campaigns, PvP mechanics balanced and skill/class balances. Holy lord, I'd even welcome it if it were v20!


Here's the thing, nobody cares about how you don't want to level 2 more vet ranks. What the good players in this community care about is quality content and balance fixes; get it?

More VR ranks only add more barriers to entry for the a great portion of the player base. Levels are fine in most cases if it is done within reason, but VR is highly criticized precisely because it seems like adding levels just for the sake of adding levels.
Which would be fine on its own, but as we all know, new content is barred behind these VR levels which more or less requires grueling boring senseless grinding to reach (unless you want to go through Cadwell's Almanac).
Combined with the difficulty that is VR ranks (again, fine on its own) and you find that many players are more than fed up with this form of progression--with no alternate method of actually enjoying the experience (either grind or cadwell's quest) VR levels is nothing more than a time consuming, mind numbing, possibly frustrating, barely any fun gaming trudge. That hardly counts as "quality content".