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PVP Update, June 2015

  • nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO
    nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO
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    What does "near the end of the campaign" exactly mean?

    It is one day before, 20 min before, 1 day after?

    We talked about it in guild chat and no one had a clue?
  • rkunz
    rkunz
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    Aany pvp incentive you could have will no longer exist if you remove the former emperor bonus. You will make pvp for one dye? I do not think so. Master weapons? VDSA is much easier
    Champion Rank 902 == (PC/NA)
    Kunz - Lvl 50 Magicka Nightblade - AD
    K'U'N'Z - Lvl 50 Stamina Dragonknight - DC
    Kunz Fyr - Lvl 50 Magicka Dragonknight - EP
    H'U'N'K'Z - Lvl 50 Magicka Templar -EP
    That Cat Behind You - Lvl 50 Stamina Nightblade - EP
    Run You Fools - Lvl 50 Magicka Sorcerer -DC
    Kala Luna - Lvl 50 Magicka Templar (Nord, I was drunk,ok?) - AD
    Dra'Kunz-Dar - Lvl 50 Stamina Templar - AD
    Kaileena The Godkiller - - Lvl 50 Stamina Nightblade - DC
    Ansei Kaileena - Lvl 50 Magicka Nightblade - DC
    Luna Soulshine - Lvl 50 Stamina Sorcerer -AD
  • ThatNeonZebraAgain
    ThatNeonZebraAgain
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    Atropos wrote: »
    Hey @ZOS_BrianWheeler, thanks for sharing the details of PvP changes, your post has a lot of great solutions to current problems. I'd like to echo @Erlex' comment, though, about the importance of restricting the ability to resurrect at keeps that are severed from the transit network.
    We have talked about removing the ability to respawn in enemy controlled keeps if they are not connected to a transit line, but hasn't gotten any traction other than discussions at the moment.

    I assume you mean "friendly controlled keeps that are not connected to a transit line". I'm really concerned how this idea has "not gotten any traction". It makes no sense to be able to respawn at a keep your alliance cannot transit to, as it completely sabotages the strategic importance of the travel network. As long as death remains a free and useful means of fast travel "blood porting" will remain a valid Cyrodiil strategy. I don't see how this creates satisfying gameplay.

    The design of the transit system clearly implies that you have thought about these issues. You don't want players to be able to teleport into keeps that are actively under siege, or deep within enemy territory. So ... don't let them!

    I really don't see how there is even a possible counter-argument to this.

    Removing the ability to spawn at disconnected keeps would also change another aspect of the Cyrodiil map.

    The two gate keeps of each faction (Rayles, Warden, KC, Farragut, BB, BM) become near impossible to for any long term period of time. If enemies can only respawn at a captured Arrius, Glademist, of Faregyl, it becomes simply a matter of time before the native faction overwhelms the force camping their gates and then closes them.

    Pushing for the scrolls would require a concerted organized effort most of the time, as you'd be unlikely to retain those gate keeps without babysitting them or keeping the enemy so busy (defending scroll temples for instance) that they're not attacking the gate keep.

    It would also give the faction defending their scrolls much more time to rally and counter attack after any failed attempt to push the gates or take the temple.

    Sounds like a great change to me. Scrolls and keeps flip way too fast for my liking.
    Edited by ThatNeonZebraAgain on June 16, 2015 7:07PM
    Gore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
    Wode Earthrender Breton Dragonknight
    Ceol the Last Baron Redguard Dragonknight
    Wayra High Elf Sorceress
    Erebain Salothran Dark Elf Templar
  • Kas
    Kas
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    bye bye former emp buff :(

    but if that's what it takes, I'll glady give it up. I agree with @Eucken and others that the buffs aren't actually that big of a deal. i had TONS of fun going beyond my comfort zone to push for my own or guild mate's emp title. however, I still see how people want them and it is one incentive for flipping all emp keeps late at night or early in the morning. with that and buff campaigns gone, who knows how pvp will change.

    tbh i'm not sure it's already enough but i'm still looking forward to seeing the results.

    that being said, i'm a bit disappointed that there are no plans to change the "game of farming AP". Right now, especially if groups are involved and even more so if those groups approach raid size, it's all about getting to the best places quickly, being lucky with enemy (and especially own faction competitor's) movement and only relatively little about actual fighting capabilities. if have had nights in groups that were mediocre at best sitting at almost 100k AP/h over a long time and I have been in great groups wiping everything up tp raids as 5-10 but sitting at ~20k/h just because so few fights were found that night.

    while most players that enjoy fighting over moving strategically ask for arenas, I've always hoped to find that in Cyrodiil through future alliance war changes.(imho arenas would be fun for a few days and than the biggest "class X OP" spam we have ever witnessed will start)
    Edited by Kas on June 16, 2015 6:42PM
    @bbu - AD/EU
    Kasiia - Templar (AR43)
    Kasiir Aberion - Sorc (AR36)
    Kasron - Warden
  • tinythinker
    tinythinker
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    ✭✭
    PeggymoeXD wrote: »
    I will say that Guard and Prox Det need to be tweaked as "zerg busting skills"

    Guard is basically useless and Proximity Detonation is about the same if one person is casting it in a zerg. The only use for it now are for sorcs and sometimes sypher fanboy nightblades. No offense sypher you're awesome. And when an entire zerg uses it, there is no escape. I think the damage needs to scale off of players inside the AoE. If it hits one person and everyone manages to escape the AoE, it doesn't hurt too bad, but you've managed to split the zerg up some. But if it hits 10 people at once then I think the damage should increase for every player it hit. Also nobody wants to use a skill point on a skill that costs stamina, doesnt allow stamina regen while toggled, and causes you to lose stamina while using it. That's just too much stamina.
    Yup, if it did 800-1000 points damage per person (with relatively high spell damage/magicka pool on the part of the caster) to each person in the radius when it went off, then one person getting hit with it wouldn't be so bad and would not be worth casting, but if the target was stacked tight with 14 other people the 12,000-15,000 damage would sting and would be worth the cost/cast time. Might be worth running into a group of 6 for 4800-6000 damage with Prox Det. Doing 6,000-10,000+ damage on a single target with the skill, though, doesn't seem to match its original intention.
    If you want me to see your reply to this comment then tag me using @tinythinker or I will miss it.

    (Small selection of some posts I made as a regular forum member.)
  • tonemd
    tonemd
    ✭✭✭✭
    Eucken wrote: »
    Just to clarify, you will keep the Emperor Dye and "former emperor" titles.

    do you really think thats incentive enought for the average player to become emperor once @ZOS_BrianWheeler

    The emperor should not only be given incentives to keep his buffs but also be given the skills to do so. If the Emp skill line access is going to be so finite maybe it should be augmented for the active Emperor. Those mercenaries that were removed, maybe the active Emp could be the only one to deploy them.

    I would still like to see the different campaign scoring systems add up to one overall campaign score and an overall faction winner announced at the end of the 30 day campaign INSTEAD of limiting campaign movement, but lets see what happens. If removing travel to players cracks down on EP guildies jumping onto AD toons and double teaming DC then I'm all for it.
    Edited by tonemd on June 16, 2015 6:45PM
    DC-NA-PC-TrueFlame-BoD-Jabberwocky
    DK - Baby-It's-Slimm
    Sorc - Kizzy Daedra
    NB - Elder Fazo
    Temp - Homies-Over-Hoez
    NB - Resist We Much
    Warden - Ursidae Doxy
  • xaraan
    xaraan
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    I agree with almost all changes except decreasing home campaign switch cool down to 12 hours, it should stay 3 days to prevent cross campaign zerging. All other changes rock! This is awsome and I feel some of the concerns are addressed. Zergs will still roll with aoe's though so perhaps a nerf just in cyrodill to the purge skill (so as not to affect pve use). No purge = zerg death

    I agree. There is too much of a mega guild zerging a home campaign and deciding to travel around to others and zerg them as well. I don't even think there should be guest campaigns. Maybe let someone guest for free if they don't have a home campaign chosen (and aren't earning AP toward rewards there) and check out different campaigns, but once you pick a home campaigns it is done until that campaign ends.
    My Characters -- NA • PC • AD:
    Xaraan - Imperial Knightblade & Master Crafter
    Xaraanosaurus - Argonian DK Tank (Dro-m'Athra Destroyer)
    Xaraan-dar - Khajiit WW Stam-Sorc
    Xâraan - Redguard Jester Stamplar
    Xàraan - Bosmer WW Stamblade
    Xáraan - Nord Tankplar
    Xa-Raan - Dunmer Magicka DK
    Xa'Raan - Altmer Magicka-Sorc
    Xarâân - Orc Sorc Tank
    Xaraana - Breton Templar Healer
    Xa Raan - Redguard Stam-DK
    Xaràán - Dunmer Vampire Mag-blade
  • Benawaw89
    Benawaw89
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    Benawaw89 wrote: »
    my former emperor buff is gone :( i worked so hard to get that emperor. now only RED emperor color left :(

    imo emperor buff isnt a game changing, its a reward for hardwork becoming empeor. imo it should be just there.

    You and me, we used to be together
    Every day together, always
    I really feel that I'm losing my best friend
    I can't believe this could be the end

    It looks as though you're letting go
    And if it's real, well I don't want to know

    Don't cry
    I know just what you're saying
    So please stop explaining
    Don't tell me 'cause it hurts

    that s just like you and me , the time you leave me alone :(
    DC - EU
    Max Karl Ludwig Planck Imperial DK

    my Twitch Channel
    my Youtube Channel

    “There is no greater danger than underestimating your opponent.”


    ― Lao Tzu
  • Publius_Scipio
    Publius_Scipio
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    ✭✭
    This thread is a huge positive for ESO. Definitely like the idea with how emperor/former emp will be handled. Makes being emperor meaningful and will force players to really stick with it with if they want to keep that skill line.

    However, what if an alliance mutinies against their emp and allows another alliance to dethrone? That would suck for that person.
    United States of America /salute

    The Second Son of Cyrodiil
  • xaraan
    xaraan
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    BigTone wrote: »
    I don't like the whole concept of "blood porting". You should not be rewarded for dieing. I love the idea of not be able to rez at a keep that is cut off from transit. I also like the idea of not being able to port/rez at a keep unless you have 2/3 resources.

    I hate blood porting as well, but think that without camps and other travel options, keeps would fall too easily, esp cutting off transit with only 2/3 resources. They are already pretty easy to take with a small team without a big response from the other side.

    I wouldn't mind seeing them (almost) end blood porting (but keep 3/3 resources) by flagging keeps on the map at like 25% damage on outer/20% inner giving people more time to ride there. At this point, even if you decide you need to port, getting somewhere, dying, and hoping to get in under the timer can be close, I don't think many would even try unless they were already in the middle of a fight if they keep was flagging that quick. It would also give the other side a bit more time to respond, which I think is needed in a map the size that it is.
    My Characters -- NA • PC • AD:
    Xaraan - Imperial Knightblade & Master Crafter
    Xaraanosaurus - Argonian DK Tank (Dro-m'Athra Destroyer)
    Xaraan-dar - Khajiit WW Stam-Sorc
    Xâraan - Redguard Jester Stamplar
    Xàraan - Bosmer WW Stamblade
    Xáraan - Nord Tankplar
    Xa-Raan - Dunmer Magicka DK
    Xa'Raan - Altmer Magicka-Sorc
    Xarâân - Orc Sorc Tank
    Xaraana - Breton Templar Healer
    Xa Raan - Redguard Stam-DK
    Xaràán - Dunmer Vampire Mag-blade
  • tinythinker
    tinythinker
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    ✭✭
    Valnas wrote: »
    the zos motto is if you can't fix it, remove it.

    Former Former Emperor (single player objective)
    Former Forward Camps (fast transit and pace of play)
    Former Mercenary contracts (population)
    Former Ground Oil (lag/congestion of groups)
    Former Oil Catapult no purge
    Former 100% heal debuff

    You had a bunch of mechanics that worked and allows small groups and large to impact Cyrodiil, removed them do to feedback from 'players', and wonder why the game struggles to perform at the level it used to and why play has turned into tho zergs seiging each other.
    I am all for getting back mercenaries and no-purge oil cats (the latter could scale snare percentage based on the number of people hit up to 70%). Not so sure about forward camps and ground oil. No real opinion on former emp buffs/100% heal debuffs atm.
    emma666 wrote: »
    Brian Wheeler says this is a PvP update with new implements, when in reality it's just more removal of things they didn't know how to fix or balance. Yet people are cheering. I don't get it.
    Some people think the changes will help, some are glad ZOS is actively working on PvP and communicating their plans to the players. I would rather take a few things out if performance improves than see performance issues kill what is left of PvP, but I would prefer the system be upgraded to allow some of those things back in at some point. Otherwise it just will become too little (literally), too late.


    If you want me to see your reply to this comment then tag me using @tinythinker or I will miss it.

    (Small selection of some posts I made as a regular forum member.)
  • Erlex
    Erlex
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Atropos wrote: »
    Hey @ZOS_BrianWheeler, thanks for sharing the details of PvP changes, your post has a lot of great solutions to current problems. I'd like to echo @Erlex' comment, though, about the importance of restricting the ability to resurrect at keeps that are severed from the transit network.
    We have talked about removing the ability to respawn in enemy controlled keeps if they are not connected to a transit line, but hasn't gotten any traction other than discussions at the moment.

    I assume you mean "friendly controlled keeps that are not connected to a transit line". I'm really concerned how this idea has "not gotten any traction". It makes no sense to be able to respawn at a keep your alliance cannot transit to, as it completely sabotages the strategic importance of the travel network. As long as death remains a free and useful means of fast travel "blood porting" will remain a valid Cyrodiil strategy. I don't see how this creates satisfying gameplay.

    The design of the transit system clearly implies that you have thought about these issues. You don't want players to be able to teleport into keeps that are actively under siege, or deep within enemy territory. So ... don't let them!

    I really don't see how there is even a possible counter-argument to this.

    Removing the ability to spawn at disconnected keeps would also change another aspect of the Cyrodiil map.

    The two gate keeps of each faction (Rayles, Warden, KC, Farragut, BB, BM) become near impossible to for any long term period of time. If enemies can only respawn at a captured Arrius, Glademist, of Faregyl, it becomes simply a matter of time before the native faction overwhelms the force camping their gates and then closes them.

    Pushing for the scrolls would require a concerted organized effort most of the time, as you'd be unlikely to retain those gate keeps without babysitting them or keeping the enemy so busy (defending scroll temples for instance) that they're not attacking the gate keep.

    It would also give the faction defending their scrolls much more time to rally and counter attack after any failed attempt to push the gates or take the temple.

    Exactly.
    World First Hel Ra / AA clear
    Officer of Entropy Rising
    Defender of the Chalamo
    Beta tester since March 2013
    I stream everything twitch.tv/erlexx
  • Darklord_Tiberius
    Darklord_Tiberius
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    Alcast wrote: »
    @ZOS_BrianWheeler

    Will the PvE Leaderboards be reseted? Otherwise it is impossible to reach PvP Buffed Scores that are up on top there atm.

    I am very happy now, thank you :)

    Who cares? The PvE crowd has been abusing PvP buffs since the start. Nobody cares about that.
    Lord Commander
    Mercenary Templar
    Former Emperor of Haderus
    Master Vampire
    Lord of Eternal Darkness
    Keeper of Shadows
    "Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men."
  • Darklord_Tiberius
    Darklord_Tiberius
    ✭✭✭✭
    @ZOS_BrianWheeler

    Great news and up coming changes!

    Can I get a response on what and if anything is to change about the requirements to becoming Emperor are? As most of us can see, the lower day campaigns get flooded by people that legitimately never play there; they only come in to get one thing and that is the Emperor. Sure, removing the passives will help; but that really is not a solid solution to the overall problem. This addresses a significant issue of fair play and server balance for all alliances.
    Lord Commander
    Mercenary Templar
    Former Emperor of Haderus
    Master Vampire
    Lord of Eternal Darkness
    Keeper of Shadows
    "Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men."
  • Grunim
    Grunim
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    kaithuzar wrote: »
    @ZOS_BrianWheeler

    Can you make it so that scrolls & keeps get reset at the end/beginning of every campaign? This has been much needed/requested please.

    I would love this and something I miss from GW2 WvW where the reset allowed a mad dash to take keeps and resources and organized guilds and servers would hold meetings in advance to strategize. It was super fun to log in at reset time knowing the slate was clean and see if the pre-strategizing paid off or not.

    Am a whimsical Generation Jones gamer. Online RPGs hooked me since '94 and no sign of stopping soon...


  • tahoang1988
    Nice. Can't wait to see these changes in action.
    Decibel Rage Harbinger of Death
  • Prabooo
    Prabooo
    ✭✭✭✭
    <3 now PvP becomes interesting...
    Tambochinango AD
    Supaymaya AD
    In Flammable AD
    Chuang-Tzu AD
    PC/NA

    "Reality is a game, mortal. Learn to play,
    or resign yourself to becoming one of the
    pieces that is meant to be sacrificed."

    Meridia
  • kamarob14_ESO
    kamarob14_ESO
    Soul Shriven
    The more I think about it even though I dont pvp I can just zone in take up the queue and find me a farm spot. So if your going to remove the buffs from pve might as well remove them for pvp players also.
  • Draxys
    Draxys
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    kaithuzar wrote: »
    @ZOS_BrianWheeler

    Can you make it so that scrolls & keeps get reset at the end/beginning of every campaign? This has been much needed/requested please.

    ^
    rip decibel

    venatus
  • Tigger62077
    Tigger62077
    ✭✭
    I really really hope that you completely remove everyone's home and guest campaigns when you do this. If you don't, those who need to change to match up with what their guildmates are doing will STILL be unable to do so. I have been unable to move for 8 months because of the inability to remove one's home and guess campaign settings. PvP MOVES. Factions move. Thorn was hella popular for regular pvp, and then there were the buff servers. So my characters who don't really PvP all that much except with certain groups in my guilds had their homes set in certain places...and now I can't move any of them because even if I HAD the AP, there's no place to move them TO in order to do anything since they are all vets. It really really sucks.
  • Ifthir_ESO
    Ifthir_ESO
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    Thank you so much for this post @ZOS_BrianWheeler
  • rkunz
    rkunz
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    PVE buffs are not the problem. The problem is the same zerg of the same faction, you know who, be able to enter in all campaigns
    Champion Rank 902 == (PC/NA)
    Kunz - Lvl 50 Magicka Nightblade - AD
    K'U'N'Z - Lvl 50 Stamina Dragonknight - DC
    Kunz Fyr - Lvl 50 Magicka Dragonknight - EP
    H'U'N'K'Z - Lvl 50 Magicka Templar -EP
    That Cat Behind You - Lvl 50 Stamina Nightblade - EP
    Run You Fools - Lvl 50 Magicka Sorcerer -DC
    Kala Luna - Lvl 50 Magicka Templar (Nord, I was drunk,ok?) - AD
    Dra'Kunz-Dar - Lvl 50 Stamina Templar - AD
    Kaileena The Godkiller - - Lvl 50 Stamina Nightblade - DC
    Ansei Kaileena - Lvl 50 Magicka Nightblade - DC
    Luna Soulshine - Lvl 50 Stamina Sorcerer -AD
  • TheDarkWhiz
    TheDarkWhiz
    Soul Shriven
    I really do not think getting rid of social jumping is a good idea.
    I understand why it's being done - but that, along with increased guest campaign cool down, and increased AP cost to change home campaign is going to make casual PVP with friends very difficult for some people.

    Since I don't believe in complaining without offering an alternative solution, might I suggest just putting a cool down on social jumping in PVP zones? Make it so that you can only jump into cyrodil once every 24 hours or even longer?

    I just think it's going to feel lame not being able to join friends on a whim - especially for anyone with multiple PVP guilds who are active in different campaigns.
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