PVP Update, June 2015

Psilent

Whoa! Guys, take a deep breath! They are not removing the dye, just the passives.

Garion

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

It's all fine but why not remove guesting completely? If you did that you could blow-up at least one vet server. Now that buff campaigns are dead do we really need 4 empty servers with one decent pop one at prime-time and one lower-pop but active with 2 still empty? I'd much rather have 2 less vet servers than we have now, at least one less. Guesting is just a mess anyway because of the way the marker prevents you from moving characters around to campaigns you want to be present it. Since the home server reset I haven't picked a home server on any character just to avoid *** up the guest markers. At least give an option to clear them if you are going to leave them in the game.

Removing guesting is a terribad idea. It's going to be bad enough if they implement this change, but if you pigeonhole people into just one campaign you're going to have so many pissed off players when that campaign starts to lag.

Derra

Sounds all fair and game to me except for removing the former emperor perks.

I´ve played mainly solo to get the title and perks. I´ve done it on a competetive campaign. I still consider it the highest effort i had to make for an achievement in eso. Now you´re taking that achievement away because you can´t think of another way of punishing emp traders. Thank you very much - not.

FENGRUSH

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

It's all fine but why not remove guesting completely? If you did that you could blow-up at least one vet server. Now that buff campaigns are dead do we really need 4 empty servers with one decent pop one at prime-time and one lower-pop but active with 2 still empty? I'd much rather have 2 less vet servers than we have now, at least one less. Guesting is just a mess anyway because of the way the marker prevents you from moving characters around to campaigns you want to be present it. Since the home server reset I haven't picked a home server on any character just to avoid *** up the guest markers. At least give an option to clear them if you are going to leave them in the game.

This would be ideal if performance was fixed. If you force players into servers that have multiple raid groups freezing the campaign youre going to see the population dip and disappear.

Heresiarch

Why is everybody so salty about the travel to friends bit? Because your faction can't be in all campaigns at all times? Oh no. I get that it is not allowing for freedom of playstyle, but if people don't think that it was being abused, you're in denial.

The former emps who received the title through blood, sweat and tears having their passive stripped away does suck, but this should have been removed from the game when the emperor farming was at its height. Now... it's just sort of an afterthought. I think it would have been a big slap in the face to the RIGHT people if it had been done many months ago. Not that emperor farming isn't still a thing, of course, but it's not as easy.

I don't really care since I don't have emp buffs to lose, but there are a few good emps out there who get some of my feels.

Rescorla_ESO

c0rp wrote: »

I really looking forward to the campaign where the only scores that matter are elder scrolls....I see this being pretty interesting.

That ruleset sounds like it will encourage larger zergs since it removes the point incentives of controlling key points.

Rescorla_ESO

c0rp wrote: »

I really looking forward to the campaign where the only scores that matter are elder scrolls....I see this being pretty interesting.

That ruleset sounds like it will encourage larger zergs since it removes the point incentives of controlling key points.

Hadan_of_Rift

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Please add the ability to remove a character from a campaign all together. I use to play in all 3 factions and I now only play in 1 faction. However, 4 campaigns are locked to me because my old characters can not remove themselves from their home & guest campaigns.

With so few campaigns this is just silly that this feature has not been added already. Thanks

Snit

I love most of this.

I am concerned about being locked into a campaign. If you happen to choose the campaign where several of the large, effective red guilds go, you may be locked into a dead campaign for weeks or a month. So will they.

I would suggest that the cost for switching stay near the current 15k points.

Valnas

i like hte bit about fixing the amount of fat in communicating positional data repeatedly. This is the path to good performance.

The campaign scoring changes are interesting if nothing else.

Removing former emp seems spiteful, it's not a big buff, but it'd be nice to implement some character advancement in pvp (tie it to alliance rank, or add rank restricted sets). Anything comprable to the cp's grinders and pve'ers get in comparison to end game pvpers.

Garion

Heresiarch wrote: »

Why is everybody so salty about the travel to friends bit? Because your faction can't be in all campaigns at all times? Oh no. I get that it is not allowing for freedom of playstyle, but if people don't think that it was being abused, you're in denial.

The former emps who received the title through blood, sweat and tears having their passive stripped away does suck, but this should have been removed from the game when the emperor farming was at its height. Now... it's just sort of an afterthought. I think it would have been a big slap in the face to the RIGHT people if it had been done many months ago. Not that emperor farming isn't still a thing, of course, but it's not as easy.

I don't really care since I don't have emp buffs to lose, but there are a few good emps out there who get some of my feels.

I don't understand though, how is it apparently "abused". Yes people campaign hop - but I still don't see why this is a problem? If I am playing on TB and it turns into a laggy messy where the only fights are train vs train, I'm going to move elsewhere. Remove the ability to move elsewhere and I am going to log out. How is this a good thing?

Joy_Division

There are two posts here made by @Yonkit and @Garion that I feel need to be addressed. They raise important points that are very relevant.

I don't hop campaigns for buff servers I don't care about, emperor politics, to troll the other Alliance factions, or for whatever incorrect reason that people accused me of doing in /feedback. I only care about finding good fights. For over a year because of the game's meta and the mechanics ZoS has implemented in PvP has too heavily favored "zerging," it is exceedingly difficult to actually find a good fight that doesn't tank the server. That is the root cause of campaign instability; not because PvEers are defending their buff server. So what I am supposed to do when I log into my Blue and see a map that's entirely Red and my ping is over 900?

I don't dual very often, but I find it very frustrating that ZoS has for over a year failed to identify the reasons why the game has so heavily favored "zerging" that has all but removed the viability of small-groups or given them any strategic purpose in the first place. So now that small-scale PvP or "battleground" instances in Cyrodiil are practically non-starters to begin with, you are now removing the only functionality there is for people to dual, set up PvP events, or to try and create themselves very systems that should be part of the game in the first place. Very disappointing.

Finally, while this last concern is a personal one, I know I am not alone so I will voice it. I have a high-rank player (at least a Major) in each Alliance. I am not a spy, an exploiter, scroll-stealer, or whatever it is that you think that I do to ruin your PvP experience. Regardless of how it is or why I have friends and guildmates in each Alliance I do and that's the reality of my Elder Scrolls Online experience and has been for over a year. With the elimination of the jump to player function coupled with the inability to assign home/guest campaigns to characters in different alliances, I will not be able to play with those people I have cultivated relationships for over a year. In fact, it will literally become impossible to PvP at all with one of my non-vet characters.

AhPook_Is_Here

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

EgoRush wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Please tell me you plan on wiping the PvE leaderboards if this is the case. All of the top scores at the moment have only been obtained with the full advantages that PvP buffs provide between massive crit chance amps, base damage amps, and former emp buffs. If you do not wipe the leaderboards, many of those scores will remain unbeatable until players have an absurd amount of champion points to outscale the differences.

Not all of them. All the EU EP scores at the minute for 12-man trials are with zero buffs. Though the scores are not exactly top place haha. Arena scores of >11.8K were being obtained with zero buffs now though.

Which is why I mentioned the CP gains. Most top EU players have a disturbingly large advantage of CP over NA players. All of NA's top time(s) is/are done with full, or close to full pvp buffs.

That's not a problem, they should just reset the trials boards. This is something that should be done regardless, but has no effect on pvp and isn't a matter for discussion here.

Snit

People campaign hop to find fights.

If we can't find move to find fights, what are we supposed to do? Go grind a delve?

Etharian

LETS HOLD UP A CANDLE FOR ALL THE EXPLOITING/SWAPPING FORMER EMPERORS!!! You are NOT EMP anymore .. so why should you have an unfair advantage over everyone else? cause you have no life? ..lol. If you are not EMPEROR.. you dont deserve anything after you are dethrowned. SOMEONE CALL 911 .. WE are going to need A LOT OF WAAAAAAAMBULLAAAANCES!


On a serious note, lots of good changes. Good job Zenimax

Erondil

The jump-to-friend thing wasnt a good idea at first, with perfect game conditions. But now the lag and the zergyness can be unbearable on some campaigns so its needed to find good pvp. If you remove it now with the current lag, Im not sure if you will see me much in Cyrodiil.

Draxys

Heresiarch wrote: »

Why is everybody so salty about the travel to friends bit? Because your faction can't be in all campaigns at all times? Oh no. I get that it is not allowing for freedom of playstyle, but if people don't think that it was being abused, you're in denial.

The former emps who received the title through blood, sweat and tears having their passive stripped away does suck, but this should have been removed from the game when the emperor farming was at its height. Now... it's just sort of an afterthought. I think it would have been a big slap in the face to the RIGHT people if it had been done many months ago. Not that emperor farming isn't still a thing, of course, but it's not as easy.

I don't really care since I don't have emp buffs to lose, but there are a few good emps out there who get some of my feels.

Lol your response about the travel to player issue shows how much you don't understand its implications. The people that don't want it are the ones who hate when their faction stacks in the same campaign, not the ones who want that to happen. We do not want to be stuck in campaigns where we have either no one to fight, or have only lag to fight. And inevitably, there are lots of people who will be stuck with that once these changes are implemented, because they sure as hell aren't going to fix pop balance and lag by then.

Raizin

i honestly care only about lag, when that is fixed i might ressub. anything beyond that is just silly for me.

Sanct16

LazyLewis wrote: »

Also @ZOS_BrianWheeler another issue that has to be addressed is the use of zerg Proximity Detonation in Cyrodiil. One of the issue's is that so many groups try and use so much burst damage like this at once (24 man groups proxying and use some other burst skill + their ultimate will cause lag). I guarantee this causes lag and also us a huge in balance to the game. I remember Eric Wrobel saying that Proxy/Inevitable Det will be used to help split up zergs but now the zergs are using them. Not only are they using them their entire group mechanic revolves around them and especially high sorc groups who just x10 Proxy, streak in and streak out and then rinse and repeat. Please can some sort of Diminishing return self/AEO damage to stop large groups using this be added? When we get bombed by a 24 man poxy group at Peak PvP times we just lag out and no one takes damage for 10 minutes.

Yeah, it would be way less laggy if the groups would stand in each other and spam skills for 10 minutes without anyone dieing.

Snit

If we can no longer hop, then the Guild Leaders for the larger PvP guilds must communicate with each other and spread out. If the big dogs all choose the same lunch bowl, none of them will have much to eat.

OK, that's an awful metaphor. The point is, we see what happens when all the big red guilds join together -- they clean up the map and push all opposition off. They're good, organized and there's a billion of them. If they all pick the same campaign, nobody will PvP there after the first 24 hours.

And without hopping, that means nobody will PvP anywhere. Not in this game, anyway.

kevlarto_ESO

I like it Mr. wheeler and I think this is going to make pvp a lot more fun for more people overall. I can tell your on the right track I see some known exploiters in the thread whining the loudest..


Can you give us any kind of time frame, This summer this fall, this year

ZOS_BrianWheeler

Just to clarify, you will keep the Emperor Dye and "former emperor" titles.

AhPook_Is_Here

FENGRUSH wrote: »

This is really your *biggest* issue impacting performance in the game. You cant force players to not play in this style - but currently youre offering no incentives not to play like this. The big question is why? You added detonation to deter this type of stuff. Instead, youve given these groups a new tool to use together.

You actually could with collision and LOS interdiction of aoe damage to hostile targets by friendly targets (not friendly fire, but damage to hostiles blocked by friendly players obstructing los to the target) making that style of play completely worthless. I doubt they have the know-how or technology to handle that level of messaging, they aren't a bulge-bracket BD with the money, technology and experience to do that, but that is the solution, perhaps in some future game.

Weberda

Erondil wrote: »

The jump-to-friend thing wasnt a good idea at first, with perfect game conditions. But now the lag and the zergyness can be unbearable on some campaigns so its needed to find good pvp. If you remove it now with the current lag, Im not sure if you will see me much in Cyrodiil.

The fluidity in moving from campaigns has been/is being severely abused primarily to do the current version of emp farming. However, I'm sure Brian and his team understand removing the ability to jump around goes hand-in-hand with doing a major fix to the lag problem. People can't be stuck in a campaign that performs like Chillrend currently does much of the time.

If they are able to dramatically improve the lag situation then they can even discuss killing a campaign or two in order to reintroduce 3-way competitive PvP 24/7 in the remaining campaigns. If they can't fix the lag then they'll have to rethink a lot of these changes.

And to all you former "emps" who are complaining about the emp buffs - You're about to take one for the team. You're going to make a small sacrifice to show you care more for the health of the game and PvP than you do for some little numerical edge. Be proud of yourselves...

Snit

I think most of us love most of these changes. In grand MMO player tradition, we're posting about the one or two things we don't like.

Thanks, Brian. It's clear you've put a lot of thought into this, and this might really help.

Lettigall

Good changes! If the goal is for most players to go for emperor just to get afterwards former emperor buff, there something wrong with system. Playing as a emperor with all the buffs is good enough reward, plus you get unique title and dye!

JD2013

Thank you for listening, Brian! Seriously impressive and loaded with thought.

Is this all coming with 2.1 with Imperial City? Good time to have the changes live with the battle to get into Imperial City.

Garion

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Just to clarify, you will keep the Emperor Dye and "former emperor" titles.

Thanks for clarifying that, @ZOS_BrianWheeler. Any response to the feedback multiple people have provided in relation to the changes you have proposed for campaign jumping?

SickDuck

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

1% to this and that was hardly game changing so on one hand I won't miss them in any practical way, on the other hand the removal of something I worked hard for many campaign cycles before finally getting really cheeses me off. There should be some small recognition even if it was just a single token passive...

You'll still have the title, the achievement, the dress and the custom color. None of these will make you better in PvE, but well... this is a PvP achievement. Also, could you name any PvE achievement that comes with so many attached bonuses? The first group completing vDSA or SO HM...etc, even they did not get any special recognition from the game even though I bet they put in at least the same amount of effort and dedication. Even getting Master Angler title requires more dedication than becoming emperor for most. Most of the time you may get one dye, on very rare occasions a lousy title.

I know there are many people who worked hard to get to the Ruby Throne. But there are even much more lazy b'tards who got their backsides dragged by guild/friends (ab)using game mechanics and had the title for 5 minutes to receive their lifetime privileges.

If ZOS wants emperor-ship to mean something, maybe should consider tracking length, number of occasions and total time of someone being emperor and build a motivational system based on that.

Philthyorc

Rage quit incoming ... pretty crap ur taking away our former EMP buffs, way to screw over a lot of people who earned it legitimately.