So my subscription has 2 weeks left. Last plea for a better ESO+.

Heromofo

MercyKilling wrote: »

I'm going to use another game that did somewhat of the same thing as an example. Please remember I'm not suggesting this be done to THIS game, but I'm merely pondering and going "what if?" with this post.

Fair warning, it's long-ish.


So, there was a sub only MMO back in the day called City of Heroes. For many years, it stayed subscription based, until one day...the announcement came down the pipes that the developers and publishing company were taking away the NEED to pay a sub to play the game. They called it the "Freemium" model, in which you could play the base game totally free, but to experience the higher level content, one had to keep or get a subscription.

Basically, the levels were 1 through 50. Max level. Anything in those level ranges you got for free. Some options like costume pieces were put behind sub or made into cash shop purchases with the caveat being if you had already earned it through normal game play, you got to keep it. Anything new required purchasing, though.

Then we get to what you got when you subbed up.....the higher level content. There was an "Incarnate System" that was added as a means to rise above the level cap...much in the same way VR level content in this game is supposed to be above the level cap.

They also gated being able to enhance your character with the special invention enhancements behind a sub. Invention enhancements were...well, it's hard to explain. The game was balanced behind the enhancements that were in the game at the start. The ENTIRE game, even the plus-level-cap content could be run by someone who only used what could be purchased from a vendor, so the invention enhancements totally were not necessary. I know this to have been true, for I tested it out. Made a character, leveled it up using only what could be purchased through the ingame vendors and did every last shred of content. Challenging, moreso than any character that I used invention enhancements on to be sure...but it was entirely possible.

Now we get to the "what if" part.

What if Zenimax made it so that VR content required a subscription to be able to play? Perhaps also gating purple and gold enchantments behind a sub too? NOT GEAR, heavens no....but enchantments only. Would that make the sub "worth it"?

That would work

Slurg

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

But can''t people at least be content they get to still enjoy the game without paying for a little while during this transition period?

I don't want to feel like I shouldn't be paying. If.... er... When I unsubscribe I will be happy that I can still play, sure. I'm saying ZOS should make it so that I don't feel like should subscribe.

I'll feel foolish if I continue to subscribe. I'll feel like I'm wasting money.... The subscription should NEVER feel like a waste of money. THAT'S the point. Not that I'm unhappy that I can play without a subscription. I'm unhappy that the subscription doesn't have enough value.

I don't think they should make business decisions based on your very peculiar feelings. What is most odd about your position is that you make allusions to leaving the game for WoW or FF due to that lack of value of the subscription, all the while not expressing that you don't want to play ESO. The logic feels tortured to me. Either you enjoy the game or you don't. If you don't, go play another MMO, if that is what you want to do. If you do enjoy the game, congratulations. You can now play it and fully enjoy it without paying for a sub. Don't waste your money. It seemed obvious to me that a sub was wasted money once they went B2P without releasing any additional DLC because I had no interest in what they were offering in the sub.

If a change in the business model doesn't change your in-game experience, why focus on the business model?

I agree that it was obvious from the start that the sub was not going to be the right choice for everyone. I saw the elimination of requiring the sub and the inclusion of items in the sub that don't exist yet (DLC) as a sign that ZOS didn't need those of us who have already paid for 11 month to subscribe anymore. It seemed quite obvious to quite a few of us they were practically giving us their "blessing" to unsubscribe while we wait out console release since they were not going to be able to keep up with the pace of content development that was originally presented.

I think giving ZOS feedback on game play features is important and something we are well qualified to do as consumers of the product. And if people are not happy with what's in the subscription, they should tell them that too, by unsubscribing.

But ZOS does not owe any of the armchair CEOs on the forums a seat at the table of their financial decision making process over their threats to unsubscribe and take away 12.99/month (I'm guessing the proliferation of subscription demand threads is because the 6-month sub renewal is nigh).

ZOS_AlanG

Hi guys, there's some very constructive discussion in this thread, but some of the posts are rather inflammatory or otherwise problematic. Please be mindful of the forum rules, and keep all comments and criticism civil and constructive. We will not tolerate trolling, demands, abusive or insulting language toward our community members, developers, company, or ESO itself.

Sylvyr

Obscure wrote: »

ESO in Summary:

• Business Model: failure (restructuring and still incomplete without proper marketing for crown store)
• Megasever "Goldie lox population" in PvE Zones: failure (most zones are complete ghost towns)
• Large Scale PvP "200 players on screen": failure (severe lag, with reworks still in progress)
• "We're making something of value and expect to be well compensated": failure (low quality product with matching low revenue)
• Four to Six Week Content Model: failure (actually is 4 to 6 months)


There is literally nothing ESO does better than anything that has come before it, and ZOS has failed on all points it marketed itself on. Subscription to ZOS is a charitable donation to support the continued On the Job Training of ametour game developers and designers. I support indie games for that reason, and I find the only difference between them and ZOS is that the indie studios I support aren't under any delusions of what they are or are not capable of achieving. I sink money into kick starter, support promising early access games, and do a good amount of research into the people behind the games.

Sub perks won't help. Who pays for something they get for free? Better yet, who pays MORE for something than they can get for less (buy crowns in bulk vs buying a sub)? It's just plain thoughtless " shoot from the hip" game development, and it's a total embarrassment.

{disclaimer: I want ESO+ to be better, but that requires ESO itself to be better, and ZOS has fallen short of achieving that consistently. I only give them hell because I am a TES fan, and it's an IP I can not turn away from.}

Spot on.

A lot of those kick starters are very honest of what they need to work on and where they are.

Starr talks about transparancy in crowd sourcing game dev models here.
gdcvault.com/play/1021428/Crowdsharing-Crowdfunding-and

Gidorick

There's nothing wrong with letting a company know what they can do to keep our business @Slurg. There is no better way for a company to fail than to dismiss potential customers.

once I've unsubscribed ZOS will have to work to get my money. As a subscriber I was more than happy to just give them $15 a month. that $15 a month get me coming back even when other games piqued my interest. ZOS got more than my $15, they got my attention despite the lack of contact. I would play with the outlook of "hey I'm paying for I might as well try to make the best of it".

I know myself well enough to know that when I unsubscribe I will still play eso but I will be more willing to try out other games. So now, ZOS' job is not only going to be providing enough DLC content to keep me in ESO long enough and often enough to make a profit, they are going to have to provide interesting enough content to convince me to STOP playing those other games and come back to ESO.

Their job has become significantly more difficult.

maryriv

Obscure wrote: »

ESO in Summary:

• Business Model: failure (restructuring and still incomplete without proper marketing for crown store)
• Megasever "Goldie lox population" in PvE Zones: failure (most zones are complete ghost towns)
• Large Scale PvP "200 players on screen": failure (severe lag, with reworks still in progress)
• "We're making something of value and expect to be well compensated": failure (low quality product with matching low revenue)
• Four to Six Week Content Model: failure (actually is 4 to 6 months)


There is literally nothing ESO does better than anything that has come before it, and ZOS has failed on all points it marketed itself on. Subscription to ZOS is a charitable donation to support the continued On the Job Training of ametour game developers and designers. I support indie games for that reason, and I find the only difference between them and ZOS is that the indie studios I support aren't under any delusions of what they are or are not capable of achieving. I sink money into kick starter, support promising early access games, and do a good amount of research into the people behind the games.

Sub perks won't help. Who pays for something they get for free? Better yet, who pays MORE for something than they can get for less (buy crowns in bulk vs buying a sub)? It's just plain thoughtless " shoot from the hip" game development, and it's a total embarrassment.

{disclaimer: I want ESO+ to be better, but that requires ESO itself to be better, and ZOS has fallen short of achieving that consistently. I only give them hell because I am a TES fan, and it's an IP I can not turn away from.}

I was wondering about that "mega server" I never come across anyone while leveling unless I'm in a big town... why is that? Id love to run across a group and say "hey lets join together". Of course the content is sooooo easy it's not needed but then again that's what WoW did well, they made hard content that you WANTED others to help with.

Mumnoch

Obscure wrote: »

ESO in Summary:

• Business Model: failure (restructuring and still incomplete without proper marketing for crown store)
• Megasever "Goldie lox population" in PvE Zones: failure (most zones are complete ghost towns)
• Large Scale PvP "200 players on screen": failure (severe lag, with reworks still in progress)
• "We're making something of value and expect to be well compensated": failure (low quality product with matching low revenue)
• Four to Six Week Content Model: failure (actually is 4 to 6 months)


There is literally nothing ESO does better than anything that has come before it, and ZOS has failed on all points it marketed itself on. Subscription to ZOS is a charitable donation to support the continued On the Job Training of ametour game developers and designers. I support indie games for that reason, and I find the only difference between them and ZOS is that the indie studios I support aren't under any delusions of what they are or are not capable of achieving. I sink money into kick starter, support promising early access games, and do a good amount of research into the people behind the games.

Sub perks won't help. Who pays for something they get for free? Better yet, who pays MORE for something than they can get for less (buy crowns in bulk vs buying a sub)? It's just plain thoughtless " shoot from the hip" game development, and it's a total embarrassment.

{disclaimer: I want ESO+ to be better, but that requires ESO itself to be better, and ZOS has fallen short of achieving that consistently. I only give them hell because I am a TES fan, and it's an IP I can not turn away from.}

Had to quote this, 100% spot on. My only disclaimer is I've gotten to where I can't even bear to log into the game anymore. I get depressed just loading it up.

WrathOfRegicide

Slurg wrote: »

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

Jixjax wrote: »

The answer is very simple. ESO subscription = value when crown store has enough attractive items for purchase (there aren't enough now) and there's DLC content available.

The solution isn't playing around with bonsues of the subscription. It's making what the subscription gives you (equivalent crown purchases and content access) attractive enough to commit to.

Until then, it's not worth it.

Agreed. People demanding all kinds of changes to the subscription plan right now are being very short sighted. In a year when the crown store is full and there are multiple DLC packages, it will be of value. Demanding the devs change it right now to make a few people who can't accept that subs aren't neceasary anymore happy for the next couple of months is not the way to go.

"In a year..."
I don't see how you can justify the concept of paying $15 a month for nothing but the possibility it will be worth it a year down the road. You will still need to pay for it then as well, making no difference if you are subscribed now or not.

Nice straw man argument. I don't justify it right now and you know that. I posted that before. Everyone who doesn't like what's in the sub right now should cancel. Subs are not mandatory and ZOS is no longer basing their entire income on having one. They made it optional for a reason.

Did you ever stop and think the new sub model isn't meant to be for the long timers who can buy DLC as they go? It'll be much more attractive to the new console audience coming in late after several DLC packs are introduced, who don't want to drop $100 up front on the DLC after just buying the game.

Who cares that console players would have to pay money on a DLC right after buying the game. PC players shouldn't have to wait on console release just to get more worthwhile content like a DLC. PC players shouldn't be put on the back burner, because after all PC players helped shaped this game to what it is today. GW2 is able to push new content out each month; I just don't understand why a game that has a sub can't push out content each month, whereas GW2 a non sub game can push out more content. Its pretty simple If there is no new content why pay a sub.

Audigy

I find this thread really depressing.

ESO is the only real F2P MMO I ever played. We don't need to invest money for bank or char slots, for access to pvp or pve, for races or classes, action bars, mounts ...

Yet the OP feels that this is the wrong way to go in a F2P title... Seriously, what has happened to our society that people complain about a fair business model already? Seriously, if ZOS starts acting like other companies, putting a pay wall behind everything in their game, then the OP might return, but I am sure a huge amount of players will leave.

No offence OP, but there are games where you are threaten as a "customer", you can play those if you want to pay money for the simplest things every time you do them. You can pay 5 bucks to unlock an additional bank slot, 10 bucks for a weekly pve flat or 25 bucks for an additional char slot. Its all there, but please don't try to turn ESO into such a game. I for sure don't want to play a F2P MMO where the term "free" is just a fraud. Therefore I am very happy that ZOS isn't one of those companies that claim to offer something that they actually don't really do.


Seriously if I hear some people talk in this thread about "we want to limit VR to subs, we want to limit professions to subs, classes, char slots..." then I just don't understand this anymore. What is wrong with people...

Elsonso

.

Gidorick wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with letting a company know what they can do to keep our business @Slurg. There is no better way for a company to fail than to dismiss potential customers.

once I've unsubscribed ZOS will have to work to get my money. As a subscriber I was more than happy to just give them $15 a month. that $15 a month get me coming back even when other games piqued my interest. ZOS got more than my $15, they got my attention despite the lack of contact. I would pay with me outlook of "hey I'm paying for I might as well try to make the best of it".

I know myself well enough to know that when I unsubscribe I will still play eso but I will be more willing to try out other games. So now, ZOS' job is not only going to be providing enough DLC content to keep me in ESO long enough and often enough to make a profit, they are going to have to provide interesting enough content to convince me to STOP playing those other games and come back to ESO.

Their job has become significantly more difficult.

The beauty of their model is that you don't have to pay anything if you don't want to.

if you want to spend a couple extra bucks and pick up 11000 Crowns instead of paying about the same to do ESO Plus for 9000 Crowns, that is perfectly workable. ESO Plus is not for everyone and not everyone has to subscribe.

I find that ESO Plus will work for me. I know DLC is coming and it is in their best interests to roll it out, although not too quickly. I find the +10% to be handy. I already said that I prefer the convenience of not having to purchase Crowns from the store, and I feel no reason to justify that. Not having to mess with individual DLC sales is also a plus.

I do not think they will change ESO Plus very much to make it more attractive. It is poised to be a heck of a deal, if you are interested in picking up items in the Crown store. If you do not care about the Crown store, then ESO Plus is considerably less valuable.

A one year subscription, in the form of two 180-day subscriptions, is $155. For that, you get DLC, XP boost, and 18000 Crowns. The Crowns have a value, as defined by the 5500 Crown pack, of 0.73 cents each (US$0.0073). This means that for $155 the player purchases $130 worth of Crowns and gets ALL of the DLC for "free", so long as they remain subscribed. If the player wants to spend Crowns in the store on mounts, potions, food, or whatever, then they have 18000 Crowns/year that they can spend as part of the subscription. This means that as long as the total cost of the DLC that they have access to during that year, but have not paid for separately with Crowns, exceeds $25, the ESO Plus is worth it.

If the player is not interested in Crowns and the Crown store, at all or to a large degree, the ESO Plus is entirely for XP boost and DLC. XP boost is impossible to place a concrete value upon. The total cost of the DLC that they have access to during that year, but have not paid for separately with Crowns, needs to exceed $155 for ESO Plus to be worth it.

If the player subscribes for 90-days or 30-days or pays with time cards, these numbers do change. The best deal is 6 months, if you can swing it.

It is important to note that if you buy a DLC with Crowns, you do not get a benefit from being in ESO Plus for that DLC. This is why it is important to decide right up front whether to buy DLC or use ESO Plus. Once you start buying DLC, the benefit of ESO Plus goes down.

It is also important to note that ESO Plus is a rental of DLC. It is not currently Rent-To-Own, and I do not expect ZOS to make it so.

The_Death_Princess

Adramelach wrote: »

I only want one thing from my subscription - they can toss the rest:

Put subscribers on a priority server of their own, don't spam it with advertising, keep the F2P people off of it, and give me the most lag-free experience I can get.

Give me that, toss the rest for all I care, and I'm a very happy subscriber.

Be specific as well friend. ZOS needs to ban exploiters/hacks on this server as well. PvP is crashing and burning because they refuse to do anything even with evidence presented on the same players over and over for nearly a year.

Gidorick

For everyone who is dissatisfied with the current ESO+ model, I noticed this on the account page:


Has "If there is anything we can do to live up to your expectations please let us know. You can contact us directly from our help site at https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/home " always been there?

I guess we should send them an email using that link to let them know how they can live up to our expectations.

PainfulFAFA

Heromofo wrote: »

MercyKilling wrote: »

I'm going to use another game that did somewhat of the same thing as an example. Please remember I'm not suggesting this be done to THIS game, but I'm merely pondering and going "what if?" with this post.

Fair warning, it's long-ish.


So, there was a sub only MMO back in the day called City of Heroes. For many years, it stayed subscription based, until one day...the announcement came down the pipes that the developers and publishing company were taking away the NEED to pay a sub to play the game. They called it the "Freemium" model, in which you could play the base game totally free, but to experience the higher level content, one had to keep or get a subscription.

Basically, the levels were 1 through 50. Max level. Anything in those level ranges you got for free. Some options like costume pieces were put behind sub or made into cash shop purchases with the caveat being if you had already earned it through normal game play, you got to keep it. Anything new required purchasing, though.

Then we get to what you got when you subbed up.....the higher level content. There was an "Incarnate System" that was added as a means to rise above the level cap...much in the same way VR level content in this game is supposed to be above the level cap.

They also gated being able to enhance your character with the special invention enhancements behind a sub. Invention enhancements were...well, it's hard to explain. The game was balanced behind the enhancements that were in the game at the start. The ENTIRE game, even the plus-level-cap content could be run by someone who only used what could be purchased from a vendor, so the invention enhancements totally were not necessary. I know this to have been true, for I tested it out. Made a character, leveled it up using only what could be purchased through the ingame vendors and did every last shred of content. Challenging, moreso than any character that I used invention enhancements on to be sure...but it was entirely possible.

Now we get to the "what if" part.

What if Zenimax made it so that VR content required a subscription to be able to play? Perhaps also gating purple and gold enchantments behind a sub too? NOT GEAR, heavens no....but enchantments only. Would that make the sub "worth it"?

That would work

Isn't that a P2W model?
You pay to get access to higher level content that other people can't get and this content makes you stronger? Hmm..

Gidorick wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with letting a company know what they can do to keep our business @Slurg. There is no better way for a company to fail than to dismiss potential customers.

once I've unsubscribed ZOS will have to work to get my money. As a subscriber I was more than happy to just give them $15 a month. that $15 a month get me coming back even when other games piqued my interest. ZOS got more than my $15, they got my attention despite the lack of contact. I would pay with me outlook of "hey I'm paying for I might as well try to make the best of it".

I know myself well enough to know that when I unsubscribe I will still play eso but I will be more willing to try out other games. So now, ZOS' job is not only going to be providing enough DLC content to keep me in ESO long enough and often enough to make a profit, they are going to have to provide interesting enough content to convince me to STOP playing those other games and come back to ESO.

Their job has become significantly more difficult.

I like how you say they got more than $15, they got your attention because the same thing I thought. The only reason I stuck through with until several weeks ago when I unsubbed was because of the lack of content from here till who knows when. Don't even get me started with Cyrodiil...

Reymas

They need to KEEP giving 3 month exclusive loyalty rewards. That alone would keep me subbed.

Gidorick

lordrichter wrote: »

The beauty of their model is that you don't have to pay anything if you don't want to.

You are right about that @lordrichter. I'm actually planning on "Sub-Hopping" once I unsubscribe

Gidorick wrote: »

1. Unsubscribe to ESOTU
2. Subscribe when new DLC content is released.
3. Play through that content within 1 month.
4. Unsubscribe after finished with content/Buy more Crowns if I wish to "own" the DLC.
5. Repeat steps 2-4.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153990/would-this-be-a-viable-sub-hopping-option

MercyKilling

Audigy wrote: »

I find this thread really depressing.

ESO is the only real F2P MMO I ever played.

This isn't a F2P MMO. You had to purchase the "box" so to speak. There is an initial outlay of money to be able to download/install the game, thus it is not F2P.

I suggest you go check out Craptic...err...Cryptic games and three titles of theirs. Three IP's that they totally ruined, imnsho.

Champions Online.
Star Trek Online.
Neverwinter.

All three of those intellectual properties have been totally ruined by the company by making them F2P. Costs you absolutely nothing to be able to download any of them or even all of them.

Go ahead, I double dog dare you. Play those games and then come back here and suggest that anything in this thread is an abomination that you are "sick of hearing about".

Go and experience for yourself how badly a game developer can ruin things. We've got it pretty good here right now, but there is room for improvement...which is what we all want. Improvement.

DaveMoeDee

Gidorick wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with letting a company know what they can do to keep our business @Slurg. There is no better way for a company to fail than to dismiss potential customers.

once I've unsubscribed ZOS will have to work to get my money. As a subscriber I was more than happy to just give them $15 a month. that $15 a month get me coming back even when other games piqued my interest. ZOS got more than my $15, they got my attention despite the lack of contact. I would play with the outlook of "hey I'm paying for I might as well try to make the best of it".

I know myself well enough to know that when I unsubscribe I will still play eso but I will be more willing to try out other games. So now, ZOS' job is not only going to be providing enough DLC content to keep me in ESO long enough and often enough to make a profit, they are going to have to provide interesting enough content to convince me to STOP playing those other games and come back to ESO.

Their job has become significantly more difficult.

Good point about psychology. When people sub, they are more likely to be committed to the game to justify spending the money. On the other side of the equation are people like me who will stick with the game waiting for new content, but won't pay to replay the same content and bailed after a few months after launch when I felt I had "completed" the game.

Ultimately, the importance of potential sales on the XBox platform doomed the P2P sub model. I don't think we can evaluate these decisions until after both the console launches and the arrival of a few DLC. Until DLC launches, ESO+ won't be worth much. Once we have a few DLC out, ESO+ could have very good value. It depends upon what the DLC adds. If the DLC has unique drops, unique crafting locations, new mats -- such things could make people want continued access to DLC through a continued sub (or through a pricey DLC purchase).

AllPlayAndNoWork

I don't think it is too much to ask to increase the hireling gold item drop rate or to increase to the crafting refining rate of gold items either for subscribers.

TheGOHgamer

As much as I like this game, when I subscribed, I immediately regretted it due to the lack of benefits. You don't feel like a subscriber at all. I would most likely equate the feeling to be a premium user in a free to play game. So on the chart you are one above the free user, and one below a subscriber. The 'benefits' are negligible.

I am only interested in PVP so the benefits are even less beneficial to me as another user also stated. Disappointing PVP, no matchmaking, arna/bg's or otherwise, lack of people playing PVP since the world is huge you can't find anyone for hours among many other issues. So imagine how us PVPers feel especially with lack of end game content for PVP. PVE gets all the focus. But I digress, it's a fun game but many things are lacking, bugs / glitches need to be fixed. I should be able to purchase items in the crown store without them bugging out and disappearing.

If they do not re-evaluate this game and the direction it's headed then it will soon go the way of Wildstar. Rememner that game? No, you don't? Well then... lol This game has alot of potential but is lacking the follow through.

Gidorick

Thanks for your input @GOHgamer. It's good to know that my perspective isn't just the ravings of a long time subscriber.

Gidorick

Well, I spent enough time trying to convince myself to remain subscribed.



I am 100% willing to resubscribe ZOS! I Still want to be a subscriber and will resubscribe if ESO+ is ever expanded to include other benefits, or when DLC is released. I will continue to be a player and a fan of ESO and a soapboxer on the forms!

Heromofo

Gidorick wrote: »

Well, I spent enough time trying to convince myself to remain subscribed.



I am 100% willing to resubscribe ZOS! I Still want to be a subscriber and will resubscribe if ESO+ is ever expanded to include other benefits, or when DLC is released. I will continue to be a player and a fan of ESO and a soapboxer on the forms!

Keep the fight up gid we will get the benfits sooner or later.
I personally wanf the multi tier sub system thats been posted on the forums.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

MercyKilling wrote: »

This isn't a F2P MMO. You had to purchase the "box" so to speak. There is an initial outlay of money to be able to download/install the game, thus it is not F2P.

I suggest you go check out Craptic...err...Cryptic games and three titles of theirs. Three IP's that they totally ruined, imnsho.

Champions Online.
Star Trek Online.
Neverwinter.

All three of those intellectual properties have been totally ruined by the company by making them F2P. Costs you absolutely nothing to be able to download any of them or even all of them.

Go ahead, I double dog dare you. Play those games and then come back here and suggest that anything in this thread is an abomination that you are "sick of hearing about".

Go and experience for yourself how badly a game developer can ruin things. We've got it pretty good here right now, but there is room for improvement...which is what we all want. Improvement.

I've played all three.

Didn't like Champions.
Was m'eh about Star Trek, but thought the way they handled the transition from Ship based adventures to Away Team based adventures was well done. The store wasn't too intrusive at least as far as I played.

Love Neverwinter - but especially the Foundry. I have had an adventure I designed featured and have a trilogy that is highly rated by those who have played it. Again the store wasn't too intrusive, but more so than in Star Trek. I left when they failed to deliver promised Foundry updates. Of course with Foundry tips (Astral Diamonds) being able to be converted in to Zen (store currency) I had no need to part with real-world cash to get what I needed from the Foundry. I'll freely admit that the very best Foundry adventures (top 15% or so) were miles better than the officially designed game content.

I think a major title like ESO or LOTRO could benefit from similar functionality - the pressure on DEVs to deliver "new content" is lessened because there are, literally, hundreds of new quests added every day, and some of them were many times better than the DEV created content in terms of story-telling, immersion, and the level of combat competence needed to complete them.

All The Best

Wodwo

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Hi guys, there's some very constructive discussion in this thread, but some of the posts are rather inflammatory or otherwise problematic. Please be mindful of the forum rules, and keep all comments and criticism civil and constructive. We will not tolerate trolling, demands, abusive or insulting language toward our community members, developers, company, or ESO itself.

Seriously this is not cool. There are a ton of threads discussing really interesting topics that the devs should get involved in, and all they do is leave some BS message like this. If you are going to monitor threads, fine do that. But don't insult us by looking at these threads and then not engaging with the community on them. I love the game and I love the company, but they need to do more to interact with people on a micro level, ESO Live is great but it does not really compare to the sense of being heard via forum posts. This would go a great way to clearing up community frustration about lack of content, crown store ideas and general improvements with the game that are not appropriate for a webcast setting. At the moment, I have no way of knowing if my feedback is heard and this aggravates me to no end. Please engage with your community more Zenimax, for the sake of my sanity.

Valymer

Wodwo wrote: »

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Hi guys, there's some very constructive discussion in this thread, but some of the posts are rather inflammatory or otherwise problematic. Please be mindful of the forum rules, and keep all comments and criticism civil and constructive. We will not tolerate trolling, demands, abusive or insulting language toward our community members, developers, company, or ESO itself.

Seriously this is not cool. There are a ton of threads discussing really interesting topics that the devs should get involved in, and all they do is leave some BS message like this. If you are going to monitor threads, fine do that. But don't insult us by looking at these threads and then not engaging with the community on them. I love the game and I love the company, but they need to do more to interact with people on a micro level, ESO Live is great but it does not really compare to the sense of being heard via forum posts. This would go a great way to clearing up community frustration about lack of content, crown store ideas and general improvements with the game that are not appropriate for a webcast setting. At the moment, I have no way of knowing if my feedback is heard and this aggravates me to no end. Please engage with your community more Zenimax, for the sake of my sanity.

I agree with you in a way but to be fair the people we interact with here on the forums are not really the people you need to talk with to get the hard answers you seek. And even if you could talk to those people (the ones actually coding the game and/or deciding when and what stuff gets released), they wouldn't be able to tell you anything useful anyway because they are under an NDA.

Plus, I really feel like many things are up in the air at present and until console actually launches we are just in a sort of holding pattern, so there isn't even really any concrete information to be had in the first place. They can't tell us what they don't know or haven't decided yet.

I do agree that there are a lot of good ideas on the forums, really a whole lot...but it takes more than a good idea to make something a reality - it takes manpower and time, two things which ZOS is probably not holding in spades right now.

Do I like it? Hell no. But it is the reality of the situation and there isn't anything that we can do about it (except vote with your wallet for the time being, as is the point of this thread).

Raash

TheGOHgamer wrote: »

As much as I like this game, when I subscribed, I immediately regretted it due to the lack of benefits. You don't feel like a subscriber at all. I would most likely equate the feeling to be a premium user in a free to play game. So on the chart you are one above the free user, and one below a subscriber. The 'benefits' are negligible.

I am only interested in PVP so the benefits are even less beneficial to me as another user also stated. Disappointing PVP, no matchmaking, arna/bg's or otherwise, lack of people playing PVP since the world is huge you can't find anyone for hours among many other issues. So imagine how us PVPers feel especially with lack of end game content for PVP. PVE gets all the focus. But I digress, it's a fun game but many things are lacking, bugs / glitches need to be fixed. I should be able to purchase items in the crown store without them bugging out and disappearing.

If they do not re-evaluate this game and the direction it's headed then it will soon go the way of Wildstar. Rememner that game? No, you don't? Well then... lol This game has alot of potential but is lacking the follow through.

I might be the odd pup here but I really dont see what´s the problem with their current system?

As I see it I think they took away stuff as the loyality bonuses etc to make sure to keep their word on game ditching the sub system, and now its a b2p&f2p game with an optional membership with the only intent to sell crowns.

ESO+, at this moment, is more beneficial to new players. I agree and I think that even makes sense that it is.
You see, many people wouldnt put up 30 dollars+ straight to buy virtual currency for ingame items & stuff (especially new players) but 14:99 would probably be more ok simply because its like the "old sub" and you do get a bonus along with it.

On the other hand, If your an oldtimer with chars already around v14 it really is more beneficial to buy the crowns straight from the store instead since its cheaper per crown. You miss out on the bonus (wich you dont really need anyway) of coarse but that aint a big deal. Lets think a bit on about what seem to be their intentions with their new system..... Subsription for the game is gone... now there is a membership.... what is it used for? Answer: You simply buy crowns. Period.
This will still be the same regardless of how many dlc´s they put out, you will still buy the crowns one way or the other if you want to play it!

Ysne58

Gidorick wrote: »

For everyone who is dissatisfied with the current ESO+ model, I noticed this on the account page:


Has "If there is anything we can do to live up to your expectations please let us know. You can contact us directly from our help site at https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/home " always been there?

I guess we should send them an email using that link to let them know how they can live up to our expectations.

I'm not sure. The biggest difference between you and I is there aren't any other games out there that I particularly want to play @Gidorick .

I do enjoy playing with other people, but that isn't a benefit of being subbed. I do enjoy playing (sometimes). That also is not a benefit for being subbed. This monthly sub is essentially corporate charity.

So far that charity has allowed the devs to convert from ptp to btp model, open a cash shop, and get the game ready for console in addition to adding Craglorn, a couple of dungeons, a partial justice system and the champion system.

So is it possible that if people keep subbing we will actually get more content and sooner? @ZOS_GinaBruno

Ysne58

One of the biggest recent disappointments was the decision to nerf all experience into the ground in 1.6. The only explanation I can think of for that is that they plan to make up the difference with exp potions.

It is interesting that not one single dev has come in to engage in conversation with us about this issue. I get the impression they simply just don't care whether people subscribe or not.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Valymer wrote: »

I agree with you in a way but to be fair the people we interact with here on the forums are not really the people you need to talk with to get the hard answers you seek.

Isn't that the exact problem @Wodwo is describing?

All The Best

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Ysne58 wrote: »

One of the biggest recent disappointments was the decision to nerf all experience into the ground in 1.6. The only explanation I can think of for that is that they plan to make up the difference with exp potions.

Wait until they add the Level-Up Token (2,500 Crowns) needed at each xp plateau to be able to level up.

Hang on, I really shouldn't give them ideas, should I?

All The Best