So my subscription has 2 weeks left. Last plea for a better ESO+.

Valymer

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

I agree with you in a way but to be fair the people we interact with here on the forums are not really the people you need to talk with to get the hard answers you seek.

Isn't that the exact problem @Wodwo is describing?

All The Best

Yes but there is no reason to quote a forum mod, it has nothing to do with them and everything to do with ZOS upper management / corporate decision-making. Mods can't decide what to tell us, they ask questions for us to the pertinent people sometimes and pass along whatever answers they get, but I doubt they have the power that many players ascribe to them.

I'm not saying ZOS is doing everything right, far from it; but I've been in liason-type positions enough to know that there is no point to call out the moderators for merely doing their jobs.

If you are unhappy with the current state of things, do what I did and simply unsubscribe. You can still play but you won't feel so obligated to try to convince Zenimax to show us appreciation as their customers.

What people are really asking for - more community feedback and an avenue for direct dialogue with designers and developers - can surely only be OK'd by some upper management person. And while it is easy to want to take our frustration over the absence of such dialogue out on the only members of the company we interact with (the mods, by and large), when we think about it for a minute we realize the ultimate futility of that.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Valymer wrote: »

Yes but there is no reason to quote a forum mod, it has nothing to do with them and everything to do with ZOS upper management / corporate decision-making. Mods can't decide what to tell us, they ask questions for us to the pertinent people sometimes and pass along whatever answers they get, but I doubt they have the power that many players ascribe to them.

I'm not saying ZOS is doing everything right, far from it; but I've been in liason-type positions enough to know that there is no point to call out the moderators for merely doing their jobs.

If you are unhappy with the current state of things, do what I did and simply unsubscribe. You can still play but you won't feel so obligated to try to convince Zenimax to show us appreciation as their customers.

What people are really asking for - more community feedback and an avenue for direct dialogue with designers and developers - can surely only be OK'd by some upper management person. And while it is easy to want to take our frustration over the absence of such dialogue out on the only members of the company we interact with (the mods, by and large), when we think about it for a minute we realize the ultimate futility of that.

Oh, I agree with you there.

But we can only complain to the people we have access to.

And as you point out it is, apparently, the job of those people we can complain to to pass those complaints along.

If the Mods are indeed in a liaison position they need to understand that meaningful liaison requires meaningful two-way communication.

All The Best

kevlarto_ESO

Mumnoch wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

ESO in Summary:

• Business Model: failure (restructuring and still incomplete without proper marketing for crown store)
• Megasever "Goldie lox population" in PvE Zones: failure (most zones are complete ghost towns)
• Large Scale PvP "200 players on screen": failure (severe lag, with reworks still in progress)
• "We're making something of value and expect to be well compensated": failure (low quality product with matching low revenue)
• Four to Six Week Content Model: failure (actually is 4 to 6 months)


There is literally nothing ESO does better than anything that has come before it, and ZOS has failed on all points it marketed itself on. Subscription to ZOS is a charitable donation to support the continued On the Job Training of ametour game developers and designers. I support indie games for that reason, and I find the only difference between them and ZOS is that the indie studios I support aren't under any delusions of what they are or are not capable of achieving. I sink money into kick starter, support promising early access games, and do a good amount of research into the people behind the games.

Sub perks won't help. Who pays for something they get for free? Better yet, who pays MORE for something than they can get for less (buy crowns in bulk vs buying a sub)? It's just plain thoughtless " shoot from the hip" game development, and it's a total embarrassment.

{disclaimer: I want ESO+ to be better, but that requires ESO itself to be better, and ZOS has fallen short of achieving that consistently. I only give them hell because I am a TES fan, and it's an IP I can not turn away from.}

Had to quote this, 100% spot on. My only disclaimer is I've gotten to where I can't even bear to log into the game anymore. I get depressed just loading it up.

the the answer is don't log in, I mean when a game loses it's fun factor for me, I move on, there is no amount of posting on the forums I can do that is going to change the dev's mind and make them revamp the game to my standards no matter how much a fan you might be and want to see the game do well, I have played online games since before they had graphics, and over the years I have seen most companies take little to no advice from their player base ,saying we listen and doing something with what you have heard is two different things.
I read this thread and wonder what game am I playing I don't see half the gloom and doom I see posted here, I dunno /shrug
When it comes to the money part, companies will never listen to the player base, remember they have bean counters that tell them what is best, and I am sure they have ruined more online games than bad internet connection.

Gidorick

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

When it comes to the money part, companies will never listen to the player base, remember they have bean counters that tell them what is best, and I am sure they have ruined more online games than bad internet connection.

truth

Jar_Ek

The most common thing that subs provide in most mmos that go from sub to f2p or b2p is exclusivity. So providing unique titles, mounts, costumes, enchants, etc that cannot be bought / earned in another manner. However this has to be carefully done to avoid the shouts of p2w.

maryriv

Can I have your things?

Valymer

maryriv wrote: »

Can I have your things?

Sure, here's one of my hand grenades. Oh, don't mind the missing pin.

Elsonso

Valymer wrote: »

What people are really asking for - more community feedback and an avenue for direct dialogue with designers and developers - can surely only be OK'd by some upper management person. And while it is easy to want to take our frustration over the absence of such dialogue out on the only members of the company we interact with (the mods, by and large), when we think about it for a minute we realize the ultimate futility of that.

The forum moderators are just doing their job of enforcing the Code of Conduct, Terms of Service type stuff. It is not really their place to jump in and participate in discussions.

We have a few developers, namely the Mac guy and Wheeler, that seem to pop in on a more regular basis, but you can tell when they get busy because they don't stop by as often. They are Devs and standing around the forum water cooler is not where I want them to be.

Jar_Ek wrote: »

The most common thing that subs provide in most mmos that go from sub to f2p or b2p is exclusivity. So providing unique titles, mounts, costumes, enchants, etc that cannot be bought / earned in another manner. However this has to be carefully done to avoid the shouts of p2w.

The actions of ZOS indicate that they may have a preference for not doing subscriptions this way. I think that there is a conceptual divide between the vision that ZOS has for ESO Plus and what some players have for it. This seems to be vexing to some players in that ZOS just does not seem to get it, but my gut feeling is that it is the other way around.

From the start, I have gotten the impression that they wanted ESO Plus to be a low-key thing where the gap is fairly small. They made me feel like the +10% was the limit of what they would do as far as game play benefits went. ESO Plus is a very simple and uncomplicated subscription plan that will provide value to some, no value to others, is completely optional, and is not weighted towards making people feel that they have to subscribe to get the most out of the game.

Of course there are going to be people who feel like ZOS messed it up, but I like it this way, personally. I do not feel like they dropped the Subscription business model only to replace it with a "must have" voluntary subscription or something that is more complicated than "here is my money, give me a game." I know people that do not subscribe because this is not where they want to spend their money, they just want to play. I subscribe because I want the DLC and the +10% and it is worth $12.99/mo to me for that, just as ESO was worth it to me before Tamriel Unlimited, without the +10% or the Crowns.

Now, this may change. ZOS has a tendency towards changing things. I do not think that they are hurting for ESO Plus subscriptions at the moment. Right now, I would guess that ESO Plus is quite common among active players, particularly those that were around from before Tamriel Unlimited. How those transition to Tamriel Unlimited ESO Plus subscriptions is yet to be seen (by us). If you want to get the whole game, you will have to spend money on it, and you can do that with ESO Plus or by using Crowns to purchase discrete items from the Store. Player choice, all around.

Bottom line is that I don't see them jumping to "fix" ESO Plus because, right now, I think it is what they want it to be. I am sure they are noting the ideas coming from these threads, and might do some of them in the future. I would think that the simple tweaks will be far more likely than an overhaul. Some of the suggestions, like tiers and different levels or optional subscription benefits, are very complicated overhauls.

BigM

Gidorick wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

Did you ever stop and think the new sub model isn't meant to be for the long timers

And that is my EXACT point @slurg. Every single player from the long timer to the complete n00b should be able to see the value in the subscription. To design a sub model that doesn't entice every single player is beyond my understanding.

And those of us who do not subscribe will buy the content we want, when we want it. ZOS still gets their money either way. They do not need every single player to sub! Why is that so hard for people to understand?

But every single player should be able to at least see the VALUE of the subscription. I don't subscribe to the secret world but I understand why someone one. The ONLY reason I can understand someone subbing to ESO is if they are 100% brand new.

So you can't see that a person would sub to support the game they like? You do understand money is only way these games are made?

desciviib14_ESO

I originally assumed that ZOS would want subscriptions or "support" but they instead seem ambivalent to them. If they actively want subscribers then they will need to change some things but if they are/remain indifferent then nothing needs to change. Since I now presume they don't care if I do or don't then why should I either and so I have unsubscribed until it is worth it to me. I probably won't sub just for DLC either cause the price for purchase vs. $15 a month rental doesn't seem to balance very well at the general cost of DLCs.

Trensharo

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

So you want subscribing to be pay to win?

idk Swtor sub sounds like what you guys want but the features they lock out in Swtor are horrible.

To be frank, what else could they do? I'm certainly not going to pay a Sub in a game where the benefits are absolutely appallingly insulting and everyone else gets access to the same content and features for free.

I don't think Zeni is going to release more than $150 worth of DLC per year, which means subbing is charity because the 10% XP bonus is laughable, the Crown Store is filled with cosmetic junk, and just buying the DLC out of pocket will likely be cheaper than staying subbed (because if you drop your sub you'll have to buy the DLC, anyways, right?). It just does not make any sense to sub to ESO+ at the moment - none whatsoever. Not even to save the Crowns. Save your MONEY right now and if you feel like you want to buy something later, use that money you saved to buy the crowns and get it later - don't [basically] convert your $$$ to useless online currency that you can't get back, ever.

There's nothing pay to win about giving subs tangible benefits, yes, even if it means they have some advantages over non-dubbers. That's the entire point of it. What Zeni is asking players to do is sub out of "Goodwill" right now, and while that works for some of the uber fans out there (who would probably sub even if they gave you nothing simply to "support the game"), it certainly doesn't fly with the rest of us.

Gidorick

BigM wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

Did you ever stop and think the new sub model isn't meant to be for the long timers

And that is my EXACT point @slurg. Every single player from the long timer to the complete n00b should be able to see the value in the subscription. To design a sub model that doesn't entice every single player is beyond my understanding.

And those of us who do not subscribe will buy the content we want, when we want it. ZOS still gets their money either way. They do not need every single player to sub! Why is that so hard for people to understand?

But every single player should be able to at least see the VALUE of the subscription. I don't subscribe to the secret world but I understand why someone one. The ONLY reason I can understand someone subbing to ESO is if they are 100% brand new.

So you can't see that a person would sub to support the game they like? You do understand money is only way these games are made?

Support when almost identical returns, and in many ways, better returns can be achieved outside of a subscription?

To give money to an organization without expectation of a return of goods or services is charity.

I understand that there are those out there that are willing to give ZOS their money to feel good that they're helping ESO grow, but I am not one of those individuals. I would be more than willing to continue paying a subscription if that was the only way I could play the game, even in the absence of any additional release of content. Now that they allow players to access ESO without payment, I see no reason to subscribe.

I've supported ZOS with my subscription for the past year. To continue to subscribe when I don't need to and when ZOS is unwilling to provide reasonable and somewhat standard benefits that other games provide with a subscription would only make me feel foolish.

ZOS has made it clear they don't particularly care if they retain subscribers, so I'm not going to be among those who continue their subscriptions just to feel like they are helping.

Those that want to subscribed to feel good about themselves, can continue to subscribe. That's fine by me. That's their decision to make, just as I have made mine.

I have repeatedly stated that I want to give ZOS my money, monthly, in the form a subscription. I simply do not find value in the current subscription. I will continue to support ZOS, but now I will requite them to provide content. This how Buy to Play with a Cash Shop works. Before, I was willing to give ZOS money up front to fund ESO... that wasn't good enough for them. Now they must provide content, which I will buy, to fund ESO.

If they produce the right Crown Store content and regular DLC... they'll get my money. Perhaps more than they would have if I simply remained subscribed... but that's ZOS' responsibility. It's on them to provide content which entices me to spend my money.

This is how they want their business handled. I'm simply complying.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Just unsubbed. No point paying for what little bonuses it gives.

All The Best

Gidorick

@desciviib14_ESO. My plan is to "try" the DLC when it comes out by subscribing for one month. If I want to buy that DLC... I will simply put the 1500 crowns toward the purchase of that DLC. There is absolutely no risk there and I suspect most DLC can be played through within a month anyway.

Bouvin

Battlefront is coming out soon. I see another plunge in population.

I just hope this game doesn't turn into a total ghost own as people move on to the next new MMO because ZoS failed so miserably to meet their expectations.

Heromofo

Bouvin wrote: »

Battlefront is coming out soon. I see another plunge in population.

I just hope this game doesn't turn into a total ghost own as people move on to the next new MMO because ZoS failed so miserably to meet their expectations.

I have faith that (the) (us) console players will bring eso back from the dead in a big way.
But like many and like you should be as well if that doesn't work then im more worried about elder scrolls six reputation.
If eso fails on the consoles things will not end well for the franchise.

Gidorick

Heromofo wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Battlefront is coming out soon. I see another plunge in population.

I just hope this game doesn't turn into a total ghost own as people move on to the next new MMO because ZoS failed so miserably to meet their expectations.

I have faith that (the) (us) console players will bring eso back from the dead in a big way.
But like many and like you should be as well if that doesn't work then im more worried about elder scrolls six reputation.
If eso fails on the consoles things will not end well for the franchise.

You know, it's interesting that you say that. I was considering this a while ago but thought I was being a bit "doomsayey". I was wondering if people will get turned off of the main franchise if ESO fails to grow in a direction that makes sense for the game. If, in a couple years, we don't have Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, Housing, Underwater, etc. etc.... will players be turned off the property and not just this one game?

Likely not... but I'm sure some will be.

Valymer

lordrichter wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

What people are really asking for - more community feedback and an avenue for direct dialogue with designers and developers - can surely only be OK'd by some upper management person. And while it is easy to want to take our frustration over the absence of such dialogue out on the only members of the company we interact with (the mods, by and large), when we think about it for a minute we realize the ultimate futility of that.

The forum moderators are just doing their job of enforcing the Code of Conduct, Terms of Service type stuff. It is not really their place to jump in and participate in discussions.

We have a few developers, namely the Mac guy and Wheeler, that seem to pop in on a more regular basis, but you can tell when they get busy because they don't stop by as often. They are Devs and standing around the forum water cooler is not where I want them to be.

Yes, I am aware of that...hence my post.

cupelix14

Vyle_Byte wrote: »

@Gidorick, I concur 100%.

This is the first month Valen and I have not subbed, we canceled ours last month because of the very reasons you state. And we are just like you, we WANT to sub, have been here since beta and we would continue to throw our money at ZOS if they would just make it worth it to us. Just cant justify it. The only thing I want from the crown store is DLC if it ever comes and character slots, until then we wont be spending money there either.

How sad is it when people want to give you money but you make it practically impossible. A shame.

I can't say this kind of attitude makes much sense. If the game was still PTP you'd still be subbed because you like the game that much. The basic game is the same except now it's BTP, with extra incentive added for subbing.

And yet, you feel slighted by this and won't sub now because it's suddenly not worth it? I don't think your expectations or reasoning match reality. I'm a new player that subbed because I want to support the game and make sure it stays around. It helps that I really like the game. Not because I expect to be showered with gifts. You canceled your sub and won't sub because you don't deem the rewards worth it? I'm not following the logic.

The online store is barely a month old anyway, and you've already judged it as unworthy? Free access to future DLC also means nothing? Crowns you can save up for cool things we all know are coming?

Completely disagree.

Heromofo

Gidorick wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Battlefront is coming out soon. I see another plunge in population.

I just hope this game doesn't turn into a total ghost own as people move on to the next new MMO because ZoS failed so miserably to meet their expectations.

I have faith that (the) (us) console players will bring eso back from the dead in a big way.
But like many and like you should be as well if that doesn't work then im more worried about elder scrolls six reputation.
If eso fails on the consoles things will not end well for the franchise.

You know, it's interesting that you say that. I was considering this a while ago but thought I was being a bit "doomsayey". I was wondering if people will get turned off of the main franchise if ESO fails to grow in a direction that makes sense for the game. If, in a couple years, we don't have Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, Housing, Underwater, etc. etc.... will players be turned off the property and not just this one game?

Likely not... but I'm sure some will be.

Worst case scenario but i have that much faith the console market will be so strong as to bring eso back from the edge.
I did not see any problems for the console beta that we have to put up with, the ui is clean, the graphics match ultra settings at 30 fps and last the looking for group was rebuilt and i hope they bring it over to pc.

Ps i believe everyone on pc should be offered the 20 dollar transfer like the rest of us they deserve it for putting up with the extended year long beta.

Valymer

cupelix14 wrote: »

Vyle_Byte wrote: »

@Gidorick, I concur 100%.

This is the first month Valen and I have not subbed, we canceled ours last month because of the very reasons you state. And we are just like you, we WANT to sub, have been here since beta and we would continue to throw our money at ZOS if they would just make it worth it to us. Just cant justify it. The only thing I want from the crown store is DLC if it ever comes and character slots, until then we wont be spending money there either.

How sad is it when people want to give you money but you make it practically impossible. A shame.

I can't say this kind of attitude makes much sense. If the game was still PTP you'd still be subbed because you like the game that much. The basic game is the same except now it's BTP, with extra incentive added for subbing.

And yet, you feel slighted by this and won't sub now because it's suddenly not worth it? I don't think your expectations or reasoning match reality. I'm a new player that subbed because I want to support the game and make sure it stays around. It helps that I really like the game. Not because I expect to be showered with gifts. You canceled your sub and won't sub because you don't deem the rewards worth it? I'm not following the logic.

The logic is as follows:

Pre-TU, no sub = can't play. Further, the game launched pay-to-play on the premise of frequent content updates.

Post-TU, sub is optional. No new content for many months. You can still enjoy the game just as much without a sub.

Why pay for something when you don't have to?


As far as "supporting the game," I don't buy into that argument. Zenimax Media was reportedly valued at $1.2 billion in 2007.

It isn't the same as when you go buy milk at a local mom-and-pop instead of Walmart because you want to support local business.

I don't know about any of you but while I am not personally poor, I also don't just go throwing money away on things that I can get for free. For me to spend money, I have to be receiving something in return.

When ZOS begins adding additional content or finally manages to fix some of the long-standing bugs in this game, I will probably start subscribing again. But until then, there is no incentive to do so.

It isn't about being "showered with gifts." It's about being smart with your money and making sure that you are always getting your money's worth when you spend it.

Brizz

I would stay subbed if they gave us an arena...

Gidorick

Valymer wrote: »

cupelix14 wrote: »

Vyle_Byte wrote: »

@Gidorick, I concur 100%.

This is the first month Valen and I have not subbed, we canceled ours last month because of the very reasons you state. And we are just like you, we WANT to sub, have been here since beta and we would continue to throw our money at ZOS if they would just make it worth it to us. Just cant justify it. The only thing I want from the crown store is DLC if it ever comes and character slots, until then we wont be spending money there either.

How sad is it when people want to give you money but you make it practically impossible. A shame.

I can't say this kind of attitude makes much sense. If the game was still PTP you'd still be subbed because you like the game that much. The basic game is the same except now it's BTP, with extra incentive added for subbing.

And yet, you feel slighted by this and won't sub now because it's suddenly not worth it? I don't think your expectations or reasoning match reality. I'm a new player that subbed because I want to support the game and make sure it stays around. It helps that I really like the game. Not because I expect to be showered with gifts. You canceled your sub and won't sub because you don't deem the rewards worth it? I'm not following the logic.

The logic is as follows:

Pre-TU, no sub = can't play. Further, the game launched pay-to-play on the premise of frequent content updates.

Post-TU, sub is optional. No new content for many months. You can still enjoy the game just as much without a sub.

Why pay for something when you don't have to?


As far as "supporting the game," I don't buy into that argument. Zenimax Media was reportedly valued at $1.2 billion in 2007.

It isn't the same as when you go buy milk at a local mom-and-pop instead of Walmart because you want to support local business.

I don't know about any of you but while I am not personally poor, I also don't just go throwing money away on things that I can get for free. For me to spend money, I have to be receiving something in return.

When ZOS begins adding additional content or finally manages to fix some of the long-standing bugs in this game, I will probably start subscribing again. But until then, there is no incentive to do so.

It isn't about being "showered with gifts." It's about being smart with your money and making sure that you are always getting your money's worth when you spend it.

@Valymer.

Yep. That. All of that.

Elsonso

Trensharo wrote: »

I don't think Zeni is going to release more than $150 worth of DLC per year, which means subbing is charity because the 10% XP bonus is laughable, the Crown Store is filled with cosmetic junk, and just buying the DLC out of pocket will likely be cheaper than staying subbed (because if you drop your sub you'll have to buy the DLC, anyways, right?).

This really depends upon how much value you place on the Store items and how much you want them. The more interest that a person has in the store, the more beneficial a subscription is. The smaller the interest, the smaller the value. If a player's character is max level and they do not care about the store, then no one would expect them to subscribe. The value is there, but not for that player. The benefits for subscription cater to persistent players who are leveling and are interested in the store. Take away any of those three and the subscription makes less sense. This is perfectly fine since you can still play and you never have to spend another penny on the game.

Bouvin wrote: »

Battlefront is coming out soon.

Are you comparing ESO to a shooter coming this fall? Have you forgotten that ‘Yoshi’s Woolly World’ is coming months sooner than that?

Bouvin wrote: »

I just hope this game doesn't turn into a total ghost own as people move on to the next new MMO because ZoS failed so miserably to meet their expectations.

Everyone in here thinks that they represent the masses and it is not unusual for people to make blanket statements including phrases like "most," even when they drop the "most" and just say "people." There are already a lot of choices out there for MMO games. Some people will try ESO and migrate back to their "home" game. Others will play ESO for a while and then move on to the flavor-of-the-month game when it comes out. I expect that as long as ZeniBeth continues to plug away at the game, they will be able to attract players, new and prior, and the lack of a required subscription is nothing but a bonus.

Suffice it to say, I prefer that they make their money from subscriptions and DLC, Box, and Expansion sales and Crown Store sales are secondary in nature. I think that this is a workable business model, although obviously I do not have the information necessary to actually run numbers to see if THEY can do it.

Gidorick wrote: »

To give money to an organization without expectation of a return of goods or services is charity.

If they produce the right Crown Store content and regular DLC... they'll get my money. Perhaps more than they would have if I simply remained subscribed... but that's ZOS' responsibility. It's on them to provide content which entices me to spend my money.

I can certainly see the perspective.

My ESO v1 subscription ends in June. Before I need to worry about it, I expect that they will have an indication of what is coming as far as future content updates are concerned. I have no reason to be in the position that @Gidorick is in for several weeks. I will have the benefit of being able to make my decisions after console is released.

My expectations for this game are really not that much different from this time last year. Continued attention to the game, being able to demonstrate that they can pay attention to the game, and Content released on a frequent basis. That would be Big C Content, covering everything, not just new zones. Bug fixes and improvements along the way. Added to that, new expectations since Tamriel Unlimited include an unobtrusive cash shop that only sells cosmetic, limited convenience, and player utility things. Convenience can cover all parts of the game play, and they have not promised to show restraint, so I must keep watch.

The Content interregnum we are in was forewarned and I expect it. In the short term, expect that they will quickly update us with plans for the future in June. For me, the silent treatment won't fly after Console is out.

I am capable of seeing potential as well as actual benefits with the game and, as long as they can deliver on potential that I am interested in, I have no problem with a subscription justified by both. I do have limits, however, regarding how long I will wait.

DragonSamurai360

I personally like the 10% bonus and is one of the main reasons I am still subscribing. The main reason why I like the 10% all though not much it really helps getting up there in the game world. As a college student I don't have a huge amount of time to spend in game just to get things like the two weapons at level 15 and the sweet looking gear at level 30+. However I do agree that there could be more bonuses like a 10-15% crown store discount would be nice especially for the expensive Daedric, Primal, Barbaric, & Ancient Elf crown motifs. Maybe the option to get a monthly free item out of the store kind of how EA's Origin does there free game thing. Also as one more idea the ability to purchase dye packs to unlock better colors for your gear without having to spend 1000's of hours play different chars in each faction just to unlock them all. But these dye packs would be completely separate colors from the achievement ones to prevent it getting too game breaking.

DragonSamurai360

DragonSamurai360 wrote: »

I personally like the 10% bonus and is one of the main reasons I am still subscribing. The main reason why I like the 10% all though not much it really helps getting up there in the game world. As a college student I don't have a huge amount of time to spend in game just to get things like the two weapons at level 15 and the sweet looking gear at level 30+. However I do agree that there could be more bonuses like a 10-15% crown store discount would be nice especially for the expensive Daedric, Primal, Barbaric, & Ancient Elf crown motifs. Maybe the option to get a monthly free item out of the store kind of how EA's Origin does there free game thing. Also as one more idea the ability to purchase dye packs to unlock better colors for your gear without having to spend 1000's of hours play different chars in each faction just to unlock them all. But these dye packs would be completely separate colors from the achievement ones to prevent it getting too game breaking.

But the colors would be similar.

Raash

Valymer wrote: »

cupelix14 wrote: »

Vyle_Byte wrote: »

@Gidorick, I concur 100%.

This is the first month Valen and I have not subbed, we canceled ours last month because of the very reasons you state. And we are just like you, we WANT to sub, have been here since beta and we would continue to throw our money at ZOS if they would just make it worth it to us. Just cant justify it. The only thing I want from the crown store is DLC if it ever comes and character slots, until then we wont be spending money there either.

How sad is it when people want to give you money but you make it practically impossible. A shame.

I can't say this kind of attitude makes much sense. If the game was still PTP you'd still be subbed because you like the game that much. The basic game is the same except now it's BTP, with extra incentive added for subbing.

And yet, you feel slighted by this and won't sub now because it's suddenly not worth it? I don't think your expectations or reasoning match reality. I'm a new player that subbed because I want to support the game and make sure it stays around. It helps that I really like the game. Not because I expect to be showered with gifts. You canceled your sub and won't sub because you don't deem the rewards worth it? I'm not following the logic.

The logic is as follows:

Pre-TU, no sub = can't play. Further, the game launched pay-to-play on the premise of frequent content updates.

Post-TU, sub is optional. No new content for many months. You can still enjoy the game just as much without a sub.

Why pay for something when you don't have to?


As far as "supporting the game," I don't buy into that argument. Zenimax Media was reportedly valued at $1.2 billion in 2007.

It isn't the same as when you go buy milk at a local mom-and-pop instead of Walmart because you want to support local business.

I don't know about any of you but while I am not personally poor, I also don't just go throwing money away on things that I can get for free. For me to spend money, I have to be receiving something in return.

When ZOS begins adding additional content or finally manages to fix some of the long-standing bugs in this game, I will probably start subscribing again. But until then, there is no incentive to do so.

It isn't about being "showered with gifts." It's about being smart with your money and making sure that you are always getting your money's worth when you spend it.

Could it be that there is no actual sub for the game at this moment?
Last I heard they ditched the sub-model and decided to sell crowns instead.
And you get the options to either buy the crowns directly at the store as a one time purchase or by a membership in this crown-club of theirs in wich you buy a smaller quantity of crowns monthly and get some minor perks along with it?

Gidorick

That pretty much sums it up @Raash

Valymer

Raash wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

cupelix14 wrote: »

Vyle_Byte wrote: »

@Gidorick, I concur 100%.

This is the first month Valen and I have not subbed, we canceled ours last month because of the very reasons you state. And we are just like you, we WANT to sub, have been here since beta and we would continue to throw our money at ZOS if they would just make it worth it to us. Just cant justify it. The only thing I want from the crown store is DLC if it ever comes and character slots, until then we wont be spending money there either.

How sad is it when people want to give you money but you make it practically impossible. A shame.

I can't say this kind of attitude makes much sense. If the game was still PTP you'd still be subbed because you like the game that much. The basic game is the same except now it's BTP, with extra incentive added for subbing.

And yet, you feel slighted by this and won't sub now because it's suddenly not worth it? I don't think your expectations or reasoning match reality. I'm a new player that subbed because I want to support the game and make sure it stays around. It helps that I really like the game. Not because I expect to be showered with gifts. You canceled your sub and won't sub because you don't deem the rewards worth it? I'm not following the logic.

The logic is as follows:

Pre-TU, no sub = can't play. Further, the game launched pay-to-play on the premise of frequent content updates.

Post-TU, sub is optional. No new content for many months. You can still enjoy the game just as much without a sub.

Why pay for something when you don't have to?


As far as "supporting the game," I don't buy into that argument. Zenimax Media was reportedly valued at $1.2 billion in 2007.

It isn't the same as when you go buy milk at a local mom-and-pop instead of Walmart because you want to support local business.

I don't know about any of you but while I am not personally poor, I also don't just go throwing money away on things that I can get for free. For me to spend money, I have to be receiving something in return.

When ZOS begins adding additional content or finally manages to fix some of the long-standing bugs in this game, I will probably start subscribing again. But until then, there is no incentive to do so.

It isn't about being "showered with gifts." It's about being smart with your money and making sure that you are always getting your money's worth when you spend it.

Could it be that there is no actual sub for the game at this moment?
Last I heard they ditched the sub-model and decided to sell crowns instead.
And you get the options to either buy the crowns directly at the store as a one time purchase or by a membership in this crown-club of theirs in wich you buy a smaller quantity of crowns monthly and get some minor perks along with it?

Huh?

Gidorick

Valymer wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

cupelix14 wrote: »

Vyle_Byte wrote: »

@Gidorick, I concur 100%.

This is the first month Valen and I have not subbed, we canceled ours last month because of the very reasons you state. And we are just like you, we WANT to sub, have been here since beta and we would continue to throw our money at ZOS if they would just make it worth it to us. Just cant justify it. The only thing I want from the crown store is DLC if it ever comes and character slots, until then we wont be spending money there either.

How sad is it when people want to give you money but you make it practically impossible. A shame.

I can't say this kind of attitude makes much sense. If the game was still PTP you'd still be subbed because you like the game that much. The basic game is the same except now it's BTP, with extra incentive added for subbing.

And yet, you feel slighted by this and won't sub now because it's suddenly not worth it? I don't think your expectations or reasoning match reality. I'm a new player that subbed because I want to support the game and make sure it stays around. It helps that I really like the game. Not because I expect to be showered with gifts. You canceled your sub and won't sub because you don't deem the rewards worth it? I'm not following the logic.

The logic is as follows:

Pre-TU, no sub = can't play. Further, the game launched pay-to-play on the premise of frequent content updates.

Post-TU, sub is optional. No new content for many months. You can still enjoy the game just as much without a sub.

Why pay for something when you don't have to?


As far as "supporting the game," I don't buy into that argument. Zenimax Media was reportedly valued at $1.2 billion in 2007.

It isn't the same as when you go buy milk at a local mom-and-pop instead of Walmart because you want to support local business.

I don't know about any of you but while I am not personally poor, I also don't just go throwing money away on things that I can get for free. For me to spend money, I have to be receiving something in return.

When ZOS begins adding additional content or finally manages to fix some of the long-standing bugs in this game, I will probably start subscribing again. But until then, there is no incentive to do so.

It isn't about being "showered with gifts." It's about being smart with your money and making sure that you are always getting your money's worth when you spend it.

Could it be that there is no actual sub for the game at this moment?
Last I heard they ditched the sub-model and decided to sell crowns instead.
And you get the options to either buy the crowns directly at the store as a one time purchase or by a membership in this crown-club of theirs in wich you buy a smaller quantity of crowns monthly and get some minor perks along with it?

Huh?

@Raash is proposing that the "ESO+ Subscription" is more akin to a monthly "Crown Club" membership where you sign up to get 1500 number of crowns per month and along with that, you get a couple of perks. That really does seem like what it amounts to right now, with there being no DLC to be taken advantage of.

As many have said, once the DLC starts coming out ESO+ will show its value. A player that starts ESO in 5 years would be wise to subscribe, because of all the extra content they will get... you know... like Orsinimum, The Clockwork City and the 'soon to be released' Imperial City.

hehe... I kidd... I kidd.