ESO Needs Small Scale PvP.

inMorsAeterna

I for one am patiently waiting to see a small scale pvp arena brought into this game. I would love to see a ranked arena format along the lines of 1v1, 3v3, 5v5, 8v8, etc. Bring in seasons. Bring in special titles. Give the hardcore competitive pvp players a place to go nuts. Something like this would offer unlimited replay value to the pvp community.

I'm interested in what the rest of the community and developers think about this idea. What are your concerns? What do you want to see happen? @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_PaulSage

Here are a few reasons why I think we need a Ranked Arena:

1.To bring in more players. This would bolster the ranks of Cyro, PvE, and small scale Pvp alike.
2. During peak hours PvP is unplayable because of server lag. It would give us a lag free place to PvP while Cyro is laggy and broken.
3. It would help break up the monotony of PvDoor.
4. Good small scale PvP is hard to come by in Cyro because of the tendency to Zerg. That being said, Zerging is fun; but so is a 5v5.
5. There is no reason to limit your game so much. Different people like different game modes; by limiting your game modes, you're limiting your customer base.
6. Arena is a great way to test your personal skill.
7. For competitive players, being ranked on your performance through Ladders / Seasons is very rewarding.
8. Because a lot of us find it fun, and we love ESO. We don't want to have to go to another game to get what we want.

Rebuttal to people saying Battle Grounds is a bad idea.
Post also quoted below:

inMorsAeterna wrote: »

Many great points have been brought up and I would like to address them.

1. Battle grounds is boring.
a. The beauty of BG is that not everyone has to play, and the people who want to play will love it.
b. This is also good because it will leave lots of pop in Cyro for RvRvR.

2. Battle grounds will kill Cyro.
a. Having BG will bring population to the game, therefor bolstering Cyro and PvE at the same time.
b. As you can see many people do not like BG, that shows you Cyro will have a loyal player base.

3. Battle grounds caused class imbalance in Wow.
a. Wow has 275% more classes then ESO and no limits on the skills that can be used, obviously exacerbating the balancing issue. Balancing 4 classes is not nearly as difficult, and will allow for a more transparent balancing of classes.
b. This game already has made great progress on balancing classes, and seems that it is well on its way to becoming balanced.

4. We want the Devs to fix Cyro, not make a new form of PvP.
a. They made a BG for E3 in no time. All the mechanics are already in place. I doubt it would be an enormous job to implement a BG.
b. By having alternative forms of PvP they could potentially reduce server load on Cyro.

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All in all, there is absolutely no absolute reason why a BG shouldn't eventually be put into ESO.

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And the best reply in this thread goes to @Aerieth

Aerieth wrote: »

ESO doesn't have any form of competitive PvP at the moment. That is a fact.

With small scale PvP we usually mean competitive PvP. Not random "smaller skirmishes" in Cyrodiil with no objective or goal.

Competitive PvP is where your skill matters (sportsmanlike), not how many players you brought to the fight. Cyrodiil is not in any shape or form sportsmanlike PvP. I'm very PvP oriented in all games I play, even though I do enjoy end-game PvE as well.

I played WoW for almost 8 years and spent about half of it in arenas and battlegrounds and the other half in the games hardest raid dungeons. As much fun as the PvE is at the moment, Cyrodiil cannot and will not keep players like myself in the game. We need some form of competitive PvP. Arenas and Battlegrounds simply are the easiest ways to implement this kind of competitive PvP. My time in Cyrodiil has been limited in the last year because it's more of "just for fun" kind of PvP. I don't get enjoyment out of it the same way I get from Arenas and Battlegrounds, half the time there's no PvP involved. Capturing keeps and resources is more like tower defense, it's a sad excuse for PvP.

You won't see players like myself in Cyrodiil anyway, giving us actual competitive and sportsmanlike form of PvP is not skin off your backs. It's something that will give us content we actually enjoy, that'll keep us in the game and thus giving the game a broader customer base. You can keep your "massive scale PvP". I don't want to have anything to do with it.

You want us to go play another game? That's what we will do if we don't have content we enjoy, but don't come crying when the dev teams budget numbers plummet and the player base keeps getting thinner and thinner.

Give this man a cookie!!

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[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Petitions and Protests]

Bfish22090

I agree. Right now we can just play on non-busg servers.
Pvp justice system will bring some of that.

Valnas

8v8 or 4v4 in this game would be a lot of fun. Reason's not to do it seem thin with large scale pvp on a TBD fix timetable with dev's unsure why performance is suffering.

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO

Then you would destroy Cyrodiil pvp.

Athas24

inMorsAeterna wrote: »

5. There is no reason to limit your game so much. Different people like different game modes; by limiting your game modes, you're limiting your customer base.

8. Because a lot of us find it fun, and we love ESO. We don't want to have to go to another game to get what we want.

These are your best arguments in my opinion. I would also like arena based PVP or smaller scale pvp. Even 12 v 12 queue able zones would be neat. They could be written off as small skirmishes in Cyrodill or if they are same faction, training exercises. I've wanted this since day one too but I don't anticipate it being in the works with everything else that can / needs to be implemented yet.

eldermpsmithrwb17_ESO

One that has played GW2 which has both large scale and small scale (4v4) does not affect either, actually attracts more players

I would love small scale pvp

Valnas

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Then you would destroy Cyrodiil pvp.

queue's in the last week have exceeded 100 during peak hours, i saw 3 servers not including bwb poplock across 3 factions.

It might thin it out, but with more b2p coming, i think having some of the pop intermittently playing a scenario for 30 minutes would be a good thing ...

Mr.Hmm

They could implement an Arena in DaggerFall or bring the Arena inside Imperial City back to Life so that we can play as Gladiators yet again(Oblivion)

technohic

I will say there probably are a lot of PvPers looking for arenas. Because once they get them, then realize that they A: Aren't as god as they thought or B: Realize how poorly balanced an MMO is when it comes to small scale PvP; they quit. Those that don't; go on to whine about said imbalances or demand a ranked version so they can whine with more importance behind it; then whine some more due to win trading, premades vs PUGs, and trolls who tank in ranked one way or the other.

Yep. Sure a lot of them need a new home to pollute all over again.

EDIT: Forgot some of the vile to go with arenas and its players. Whine about someone showing up without what they consider optimal builds or even just using an "underpowered class" at all to ruin their hardcore experience. Then the subsequent other side of this where people whine some more about their underpowered class.

inMorsAeterna

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Then you would destroy Cyrodiil pvp.

The sad truth is that the lag is already destroying Cyrodiil.

That being said, I agree that it is a large concern for putting in small scale PvP. However you could definately have incentives for people to play Cyrodiil opposed to arenas.

1. There would be way more AP gain in Cyro.
2. I love running with all my guildies in Cyro. I would go in Cyro 10/10 times if my guild was playing. Cant roll with 24 people in arena.
3. Cyro is freaking awesome. So is 5v5. Im sure everyone would enjoy doing both.

I think its also important to keep in mind that it would give the devs a chance to keep people happy in regards to PvP while they sort out the lag issues.

RealRobD

No lame pvp in a box (arena) thanks.

Would love some small battlegrounds like WoW has though for sure!

Weberda

ESO needs large scale PVP. But I don't think we're gonna get either one. Paul Sage basically told us today "you guys are S.O.L.".

inMorsAeterna

RealRobD wrote: »

No lame pvp in a box (arena) thanks.

Would love some small battlegrounds like WoW has though for sure!

I completely agree. I think Arenas based off of specific locations in Tamriel would be amazing.

jwboudreau1b16_ESO

inMorsAeterna wrote: »

I for one am patiently waiting to see a small scale pvp arena brought into this game. I would love to see a ranked arena format along the lines of 1v1, 3v3, 5v5, 8v8, etc. Bring in seasons. Bring in special titles. Give the hardcore competitive pvp players a place to go nuts. Something like this would offer unlimited replay value to the pvp community.

I'm interested in what the rest of the community and developers think about this idea. What are your concerns? What do you want to see happen? @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_PaulSage

Here are a few reasons why I think we need a Ranked Arena:

1.To bring in more players. This would bolster the ranks of Cyro, PvE, and small scale Pvp alike.
2. During peak hours PvP is unplayable because of server lag. It would give us a lag free place to PvP while Cyro is laggy and broken.
3. It would help break up the monotony of PvDoor.
4. Good small scale PvP is hard to come by in Cyro because of the tendency to Zerg. That being said, Zerging is fun; but so is a 5v5.
5. There is no reason to limit your game so much. Different people like different game modes; by limiting your game modes, you're limiting your customer base.
6. Arena is a great way to test your personal skill.
7. For competitive players, being ranked on your performance through Ladders / Seasons is very rewarding.
8. Because a lot of us find it fun, and we love ESO. We don't want to have to go to another game to get what we want.

I agree 100%. It just seems like such a missed opportunity, currently. Having an arena based system in the game would add a ton of replay value. You could even have tournament events that players could participate in to get cool loot/costumes or whatever. I hope that this is something that they've been keeping hush hush. It would be an incredible addition to the game.

inMorsAeterna

jwboudreau1b16_ESO wrote: »

I agree 100%. It just seems like such a missed opportunity, currently. Having an arena based system in the game would add a ton of replay value. You could even have tournament events that players could play in to get cool loot/costumes or whatever. I hope that this is something that they're keeping hush hush. It would be an incredible addition to the game.

Dude yes, great idea. Special Event Tournaments would be such a cool feature.

ElliottXO

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Then you would destroy Cyrodiil pvp.

Wait. Let's not invent the internet. It would destroy the libraries.

olemanwinter

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Then you would destroy Cyrodiil pvp.

For that to be true, then a vast number of current Cyrodiil players - if not the majority - would PREFER small scale PvP and leave.

In that case, that's all the more reason to have it because the majority would use it.

Either

A) Few would use it and it would not "destroy Cyrodiil pvp" so there is no problem.

or

Many would use it and therefor we should have it as customers no matter what happens to the zerg-fest lag Cyrodiil.

Alphashado

I would rather see small scale objective based, timed battlegrounds. 10 v 10 v 10.

inMorsAeterna

Alphashado wrote: »

I would rather see small scale objective based, timed battlegrounds. 10 v 10 v 10.

That does seem like a fun idea. Im certainly a proponent for XvX, not XvXvX; but I don't see why that couldn't be an available game mode.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

It's simple. Don't want to kill cyrodiil PvP? Give tokens to enter into small PvP arena. You can only do X amount a day. Winning a match places you on a leaderboard. You get some sort of points from winning, less if losing, that you can use to get equipment that is PvP oriented or some sort of cool stuff, heck maybe even a few crowns, whatever. Limiting the time you spend in arena keeps cyrodiil alive while still letting people do arena, and believe me there are a lot of people who want to do arena type combat. Aion did something like this with great success.

As far as people complaining about groups or classes being OP....how would that be any different than now? Arena won't change anything. If ZoS was smart they would give an arena ranking system that puts teams up against other teams around d their level so scrubs and pugs so t always be fighting elite teams. As you win, you get placed higher and get matched up against others who have been winning.

Personally I want the ability to duel. For those boring times in cyrodiil where its not peak hours I still want to PvP. You can't get AP from dueling so I highly doubt people would stop normal pvping just to duel. There are 0 downsides to this and tons of games are out there to back this up as something that works.

inMorsAeterna

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Personally I want the ability to duel. For those boring times in cyrodiil where its not peak hours I still want to PvP. You can't get AP from dueling so I highly doubt people would stop normal pvping just to duel. There are 0 downsides to this and tons of games are out there to back this up as something that works.

Agreed Deep. Being able to duel people in a closed environment would be awesome. Having the ability to challenge people in PvE to an 'instanced' duel would be amazing. This game sorely needs additional PvP outlets.

TheShadowScout

I came to this game having only known small scale "arena" style PvP. And was blown away by Cyrodil. I still like cyrodil... when its interesting. When its balanced.

Sadly, all too often some campaigns are occupied by one force who sit on their "buff server" and make extrra sure noone scratches this, and any attempt to take something is met by overwhelming force, not in the least because most players in the "underdog" fraction switched campaigns. Thus one finds oneself all too often in 12 vs. 40 fights against opponents who also have all the buffs, rake in AP through killing you while you barely get any since you get thrown into respawn far too quickly... which makes more people switch campaigns. Hope someday they will come up with a way to break up this situation... until then, fun in cyrodil is often less of what it could be.

And... when this is the case, it really -would- be neat to have an alternative. PvP arenas with small scale engagements would be interesting. And a viable alternative I would think. How this could be implemented to not orphan cyrodil entirely is another matter, but there are always means and ways. A daily quest for example is one. Improving the draw of cyrodil (by fixing its current problems, and maybe increasing its possible rewards) would be another.

Duelling has also be mentioned... that one I too would like to see, for roleplaying support of PvP training, doesn't matter. Just make it part of the activities the justice system reacts to, to prevent people from duelling in banks or something...

vkayne_ESO

No it doesn't...

Necrelios

I would be happy seeing any kind of duel feature at this point. I never say no when it comes to adding more playability to a game, especially when it opens the doors to more player interaction. I think a lot of people who chose not to renew their subscription after launch likely did so because it was essentially just a single player game at the time. Don't get me wrong, it's a great single player game but why pay a monthly subscription to play a single player game?

OP makes some good points! I just wanted to add how the game still feels a bit lifeless and I think some small scale PvP matches or even just a duel feature could enrich player interactions in some fun ways and build a sense of comradery among players.

Slylok

I would be all for a lore friendly Arena. I loved it in Oblivion.

Patriick

Dungeons could make for some fantastic small scale pvp arenas. And open world dueling is a great idea as well. I'm in the process of reinstalling the game and can't wait to see the justice system in action.

Soulshine

Actually, considering the recent statement from Sage about the problems in Cyrodiil, it seems they may be heading that way anyhow.

I mean I am not quite clear on how a game that is still massively marketing itself as providing mass scale PvP is now actively working on ways to discourage mass scale PvP.... but, if they intend to work on "changing the behavior of the players to remove incentives for large groups to stay in the same area," short of offering lots of alternatives such as smaller scale PvP and arena events it is not going to have much to offer for long at this rate.

Travnastyness

Necrelios wrote: »

I would be happy seeing any kind of duel feature at this point. I never say no when it comes to adding more playability to a game, especially when it opens the doors to more player interaction. I think a lot of people who chose not to renew their subscription after launch likely did so because it was essentially just a single player game at the time. Don't get me wrong, it's a great single player game but why pay a monthly subscription to play a single player game?

OP makes some good points! I just wanted to add how the game still feels a bit lifeless and I think some small scale PvP matches or even just a duel feature could enrich player interactions in some fun ways and build a sense of comradery among players.

I agree. I would love to see both dueling and smaller scale pvp. I have wanted the ability to assert my dominance over my friends since the day I started playing. And as far as the current state of PVP, the zerg fest is fun for as long as you're not the faction who is getting zerged. The large scale is great until you die and have to ride your horse for about 5 minutes to get back into the battle. Creating small groups of PVP instances with specific objectives would be a huge draw. I personally would play that over the current alternative.

Spottswoode

Can we get a topic counter for the number of times the same topic and suggestion comes up? That would be a most useful addition to the forums.


I agree with the OP btw.

giff2830_ESO

Would love Daoc type battlegrounds. Level restricted.

Drachenfier

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Then you would destroy Cyrodiil pvp.

I doubt that, GW2 WvW is still going strong with small scale pvp available.