Will you please complete the VR level removal / conversion to champion system by May (part 1)

Cody

do it ASAP. Normally I say "Wait" but i cannot stand the grind. and due to the fact there are no separate instances in PvP for ranks(example, a campaign for VR1-VR5 players and others like it) we are all forced to do it just to be competitive.

making the max lvl 50 would shorten the grind and make the game more free and fun.

Rayco

This can go back and forth all people want, but ZOS has the data and I'm sure if they took a look at it they would see a large number of players who never went past v1-3. The veteran system in the sense of providing significant player progression should have never seen the light of day. If someone wants to play the other content on the same character, that's cool. However by making veteran levels give significant character progression (stats, gear, etc) they've made it a gate for other content such as dungeons, trials, and pvp.

There are some players who have more time on their hands and don't mind grinding out the content, but the majority of players aren't going to put up with that and the fact that this grind is a gate for them to be able to compete in certain content. Forget it.The frustration of going from level 40-50 in a pvp zone with a balancing buff to being a v1 going up against v14s...yeah. Try it out some time and tell me you want to keep playing this game.

As a player who hit v1 shortly after release, I saw that I now had to grind out the content I just did essentially two more times to max out and I just decided to quit. I was in a very close knit guild of ~70 players. Looking through the roster, roughly 40 or so got to v1-3. About 2 or 3 players got to v10+ and the rest never hit veteran at all. If i had to guess it would be because many of their friends started to quit after hitting v1 and being faced with another grind.

The vet system will attract and maintain the "hardcore" gamers who want to put in that time to grind but lose the actual majority of players. Eventually the hardcore vet crowd will also get bored and die off and then the game is dead.

Hardcore vet players should be encouraging this removal as it will bring more money and life into this game which will spur development, content, and updates.

Sidenote: I find it pretty funny people are calling those that don't want to grind "lazy". Sorry if we're too busy with our jobs or real life commitments. Maybe we get out of that desk chair throne for a bit and realize that lazy isn't the right word here and is in fact pretty ironic.


TL;DR : Removal of vet system is good for newer players by breaking down BS grind gates on content which is good for hardcore v14 players by bringing more money and popularity to the game which will result in more and better quality content.

Endurance

F7sus4 wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf: You're either ZOS ninja-employee or have no idea on what you're talking (or possibly both)

Any 100-point investment in a single passive won't give you more than 25% stat increase. This, however, does not include Max Health/Magicka/Stamina scaled off Veteran Ranks. As rightly noted, this does not solve veteran zones level-flattening (where progress during subsequent maps and zones is naturally expected) as well. Not to mention materials, skills, leveled items etc.

The impact of that change would be too big to allow forming any stable meta-game - and that's more than highly unwanted. On the other side, Champion System on the top of Veteran System is just fine as it is.

There's also no reason to favor or reward a bunch of lazy players that are not willing to take their time to quest through the zones. If it takes more than month of casual gameplay to reach VR14 without grinding, then someone's just too lazy and should not play MMOs at all.

^ the gods have spoken!

Cody wrote: »

do it ASAP. Normally I say "Wait" but i cannot stand the grind. and due to the fact there are no separate instances in PvP for ranks(example, a campaign for VR1-VR5 players and others like it) we are all forced to do it just to be competitive.

making the max lvl 50 would shorten the grind and make the game more free and fun.

just quit ESO and reinstall skyrim and type "tgm" in the console

Pausekey

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

im not missing the points...that is the point partially. Partially means skipping the silver n gold quests as an option.
Having an endgame character I think you realize that even if you have on V14 gear you're not VR13 stat wise.

This is phase 1 only...the phase is mostly cosmetic and aims to remove the VR gate to content only by converting items and gear using the ZOS conversion.

Phase 2 requires ZOS to manage and decide what will happen to the skill/stat and shards collected.

Also due to parts of PTS prior to 2.0 having different affects and impact of champion level skills the champion levels will outweight the current stat increases we normally experience

In the same example....if an alt grinds to Vr14 and then equips Vr14 gear...isn't that the same problem??
Or better yet...an existing VR14 grinds out 200 champion points and then an alt 50 gets to VR14 and gains another 100+

300+ champion levels is noticeably powerful so the silver n gold quests are a face roll
Either way over time the same problem occurs that many are against....

All aim saying is make the cosmetic change using the conversion and remove the VR content limit to those who have earned champion levels.

Help me out here. What do you mean that with vr14 gear they won't be the same stat wise? If I had a character, who in game could equip the highest level armor they would be as good as a current VR14.

Example. I have a VR14 DK. I also have a VR1 DK, with less than 2 days played time, and about half the skills of my vr14. But if vr levels got removed and CP points mattered for gear they could wear VR14 armor. So aside from 13 skillpoints and stat points, they would essentially be as good as my VR14 DK is now. And I don't care about the skillpoints, I already have every skill I want.

So that is why I don't see a good way to remove vet ranks. How would you gate things so that players can't grind an alt to literally max level in a day or two of play time. Unless the goal is to allow this. In which case just sell pre-mades in the store and be done with it, which would truly ruin the game.

Goldie

I would much rather them NOT try to change anything that isn't broken.

Remember;
1. The lighting "fix"?
2. The "fix" to mounts getting hung up on the landscape?
3. The "fix" to sound effects and music?

Keep things as they are... Its working fine. Trying to "fix" things usually leads to more problems.

An increase to the experience gain starting with VR1 and on up, would be great though. Leveling seems to "grind" to a halt once a player hits VR1.

Alphashado

I am running out of energy to even remark on this topic anymore. It's to the point now where ZoS either will or won't change it, and no amount of additional feedback from the PC community is going to change a dang thing. Every single thing that could or would possibly be said has been said.

I will add this reminder though. Vet Ranks were not created for some kind of enhanced questing experience that was designed to "train" people, and they were not created as some grand design to enlighten and entertain those who love endless questing.

It was created because at the time ZoS was an MMO noob and they thought it was "Endgame content". People in Alpha were saying there was nothing to do after level 50 and they wanted Endgame. ZoS had no idea what Endgame even meant. Vet levels were a hastily thrown together "solution" to what they THOUGHT people were asking for when they asked for endgame.

They are obviously not endgame content. ZoS knows this now as we knew it back then and tried to tell them. The Champion system is stage 3 in a 4 stage process to eliminate Vet Ranks because there was OVERWHELMING distaste for them. Nothing has changed.

In a few months there will be a new army of people complaining about them, adding their voices to the choir.

Vet levels were a self-admitted mistake made by a rookie MMO developer.

Just convert everything to lvl 51-64 so that all the gear will still work and reduce the required XP to normal level XP and be done with it. But I digress. Because that has also been mentioned a million times along with every other thought on this issue.


EDIT. The only thing of relevance that has changed is B2P and all the fat cash ZoS can make now by selling XP potions in order to capitalize on their own mistake.

Horrum

Minack wrote: »

Anyone who is not a complete moron would support VR removal. In my opinion, VR/Cadwell S&G has been one of the worst design choices in MMO history and is the reason most people quit playing.

Yep. I'm with you on this one. Unbelievable.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Let me get this straight. You guys still think they are removing the vet ranks? Even after they launch on the consoles? So they are going to let people on console play how long before they remove the vet ranks? You dont think that might upset the people who just started playing? Sorry guys. Vet ranks are never going away.

NewBlacksmurf

Pausekey wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

im not missing the points...that is the point partially. Partially means skipping the silver n gold quests as an option.
Having an endgame character I think you realize that even if you have on V14 gear you're not VR13 stat wise.

This is phase 1 only...the phase is mostly cosmetic and aims to remove the VR gate to content only by converting items and gear using the ZOS conversion.

Phase 2 requires ZOS to manage and decide what will happen to the skill/stat and shards collected.

Also due to parts of PTS prior to 2.0 having different affects and impact of champion level skills the champion levels will outweight the current stat increases we normally experience

In the same example....if an alt grinds to Vr14 and then equips Vr14 gear...isn't that the same problem??
Or better yet...an existing VR14 grinds out 200 champion points and then an alt 50 gets to VR14 and gains another 100+

300+ champion levels is noticeably powerful so the silver n gold quests are a face roll
Either way over time the same problem occurs that many are against....

All aim saying is make the cosmetic change using the conversion and remove the VR content limit to those who have earned champion levels.

Help me out here. What do you mean that with vr14 gear they won't be the same stat wise? If I had a character, who in game could equip the highest level armor they would be as good as a current VR14.

Example. I have a VR14 DK. I also have a VR1 DK, with less than 2 days played time, and about half the skills of my vr14. But if vr levels got removed and CP points mattered for gear they could wear VR14 armor. So aside from 13 skillpoints and stat points, they would essentially be as good as my VR14 DK is now. And I don't care about the skillpoints, I already have every skill I want.

So that is why I don't see a good way to remove vet ranks. How would you gate things so that players can't grind an alt to literally max level in a day or two of play time. Unless the goal is to allow this. In which case just sell pre-mades in the store and be done with it, which would truly ruin the game.

The skill and stat points make a huge difference right now at least. Also the new 50 alt is missing the shards from the VR zones so I've felt a big difference on my characters

How do you fix things so they don't grind to a halt....that my friend is the bigger issue. I'd say content is the first part of the answer and the rest could possibly be involving something like Cyrodil as both PvE and PvP but keep them seperate.

I don't have the answer to the bigger issue...just doing threads on the part 1 of the VR/CP stuff

NewBlacksmurf

Rayco wrote: »

This can go back and forth all people want, but ZOS has the data and I'm sure if they took a look at it they would see a large number of players who never went past v1-3. The veteran system in the sense of providing significant player progression should have never seen the light of day. If someone wants to play the other content on the same character, that's cool. However by making veteran levels give significant character progression (stats, gear, etc) they've made it a gate for other content such as dungeons, trials, and pvp.

There are some players who have more time on their hands and don't mind grinding out the content, but the majority of players aren't going to put up with that and the fact that this grind is a gate for them to be able to compete in certain content. Forget it.The frustration of going from level 40-50 in a pvp zone with a balancing buff to being a v1 going up against v14s...yeah. Try it out some time and tell me you want to keep playing this game.

As a player who hit v1 shortly after release, I saw that I now had to grind out the content I just did essentially two more times to max out and I just decided to quit. I was in a very close knit guild of ~70 players. Looking through the roster, roughly 40 or so got to v1-3. About 2 or 3 players got to v10+ and the rest never hit veteran at all. If i had to guess it would be because many of their friends started to quit after hitting v1 and being faced with another grind.

The vet system will attract and maintain the "hardcore" gamers who want to put in that time to grind but lose the actual majority of players. Eventually the hardcore vet crowd will also get bored and die off and then the game is dead.

Hardcore vet players should be encouraging this removal as it will bring more money and life into this game which will spur development, content, and updates.

Sidenote: I find it pretty funny people are calling those that don't want to grind "lazy". Sorry if we're too busy with our jobs or real life commitments. Maybe we get out of that desk chair throne for a bit and realize that lazy isn't the right word here and is in fact pretty ironic.


TL;DR : Removal of vet system is good for newer players by breaking down BS grind gates on content which is good for hardcore v14 players by bringing more money and popularity to the game which will result in more and better quality content.

^THIS!!!!

Seraphyel

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Let me get this straight. You guys still think they are removing the vet ranks? Even after they launch on the consoles? So they are going to let people on console play how long before they remove the vet ranks? You dont think that might upset the people who just started playing? Sorry guys. Vet ranks are never going away.

You just described the issue.

Veteran Ranks MUST be removed before console launch. That won't happen and you already said it: they are never going away.

I think you are right. Two scenarios:

1. If the console version is just a lukewarm success, they will never remove or rework the Veteran Ranks because it's not worth the work they need to do it.

2. If the console version is a success, Veteran Ranks will stay here for at least another 4-5 months after console launch and will be removed by the end of the year or later. There is no point for removing them right after console launch, that just would deteriorate the whole situation for console players.

(and let me get this straight, PC players don't matter, that's the point everybody has to understand, it's all about consoles)

NewBlacksmurf

Seraphyel wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Let me get this straight. You guys still think they are removing the vet ranks? Even after they launch on the consoles? So they are going to let people on console play how long before they remove the vet ranks? You dont think that might upset the people who just started playing? Sorry guys. Vet ranks are never going away.

You just described the issue.

Veteran Ranks MUST be removed before console launch. That won't happen and you already said it: they are never going away.

I think you are right. Two scenarios:

1. If the console version is just a lukewarm success, they will never remove or rework the Veteran Ranks because it's not worth the work they need to do it.

2. If the console version is a success, Veteran Ranks will stay here for at least another 4-5 months after console launch and will be removed by the end of the year or later. There is no point for removing them right after console launch, that just would deteriorate the whole situation for console players.

(and let me get this straight, PC players don't matter, that's the point everybody has to understand, it's all about consoles)

I can actually see the console change occurring first. Considering the console market drove the non-sub change and the crown store....maybe the delay is to ensure account copy is not messed up.

It's a one and done copy so it would actually make more sense to change console.

Maybe they leave PC as is....
Diablo 3, Neverwinter, Final Fantasy are examples of games that differ on console from PC but games that came to console after PC launches.

Endurance

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Rayco wrote: »

This can go back and forth all people want, but ZOS has the data and I'm sure if they took a look at it they would see a large number of players who never went past v1-3. The veteran system in the sense of providing significant player progression should have never seen the light of day. If someone wants to play the other content on the same character, that's cool. However by making veteran levels give significant character progression (stats, gear, etc) they've made it a gate for other content such as dungeons, trials, and pvp.

There are some players who have more time on their hands and don't mind grinding out the content, but the majority of players aren't going to put up with that and the fact that this grind is a gate for them to be able to compete in certain content. Forget it.The frustration of going from level 40-50 in a pvp zone with a balancing buff to being a v1 going up against v14s...yeah. Try it out some time and tell me you want to keep playing this game.

As a player who hit v1 shortly after release, I saw that I now had to grind out the content I just did essentially two more times to max out and I just decided to quit. I was in a very close knit guild of ~70 players. Looking through the roster, roughly 40 or so got to v1-3. About 2 or 3 players got to v10+ and the rest never hit veteran at all. If i had to guess it would be because many of their friends started to quit after hitting v1 and being faced with another grind.

The vet system will attract and maintain the "hardcore" gamers who want to put in that time to grind but lose the actual majority of players. Eventually the hardcore vet crowd will also get bored and die off and then the game is dead.

Hardcore vet players should be encouraging this removal as it will bring more money and life into this game which will spur development, content, and updates.

Sidenote: I find it pretty funny people are calling those that don't want to grind "lazy". Sorry if we're too busy with our jobs or real life commitments. Maybe we get out of that desk chair throne for a bit and realize that lazy isn't the right word here and is in fact pretty ironic.


TL;DR : Removal of vet system is good for newer players by breaking down BS grind gates on content which is good for hardcore v14 players by bringing more money and popularity to the game which will result in more and better quality content.

^THIS!!!!

1. so basically, 3% of the players in the whole game wants veteran ranks removed because its too time consuming and they got a life? lazy i swear

2. ZOS works VERY hard to bring the players accurate & in depth quests and storyline, and you just want to skip it for end game PVP or to test out builds because you got a life? very lazy

3. well dont forget this game is not all about grinding, elder scrolls is like a big novel there is a in depth storyline to it and the more interesting it gets, the more quests you would want to do.. cadwell silver & gold is an expansion to that large storyline.. why would everyone want to skip the storyline?

4. do you feel the competition vs the hardcore players is too much for you? you want to even the gameplay to your level of expectations? sorry to say but this game is not for you, go play runescape.. which reminds me, the 4th ranked runescape player has a life and only plays 2 ~ 3 hours a day and hes maxed out with 5billion exp! so using that busy with life or work excuse not to be able to level up past veteran content is complete BS

Seraphyel

1. LOL. VR is the worst thing about the game, one of the biggest issues in reviews and one of the worst design choices ever made for an MMORPG. I would rather say at least 50% of all players dislike or hate VR. And 50% is an enormous amount.

2. Skip it because it's not part of MY game. I chose a faction I want to play through, I want to see their story and want to get immersive with my faction. I don't care about the story of other factions, if I would, I would have chosen them. Accurate & in depth quests and storylines only work from 1-50, after 50 they are just annoying and tedious.

3. This game is all about grinding. Champion System and Veteran System are one of the biggest grind systems in any MMORPG right now. Cadwells Silver & Gold is not an expansion, it's a copy of a 1-50 storyline. That's the issue. And why I want to skip it... see 2.

4. Even the gameplay? What?

Naivefanboi

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

It shouldn't be removed they should just work like light levels in Destiny.


equipping a full set of vr14 armor makes you vr14.

removing it makes you vr1.

the reason for this is so ZOS doesn't need to waste time with a stat squish like WoW did.

Current cap is vr14, they add wrothgar that has vr15 gear and vr15 mats.

I have to disagree. IF they did this a lot of people would quit.

yeaaaa no destiny vomit in eso please... already quit that game by week 3 for a reason. plus this game actually has content soo theres no need for a diablo loot grind system like that gimmick of game uses.

if they ever do remove vr levelsl they will prolly ust try to convert them into champion points. knowing zos tho they will probably wait till the new batch of console players grind out vr14, then to be funny remove the levels and *** most of the console crowd off lol thats what i see happening.

Elara_Northwind

Pretty please don't remove veteran ranks... I have worked so hard to level up my characters, I will feel like it has all been for nothing if they take my vr's away from me!

Alphashado

Endurance wrote: »

1. so basically, 3% of the players in the whole game wants veteran ranks removed because its too time consuming and they got a life? lazy i swear

Umm.. 3%? LOL

Endurance wrote: »

3. ZOS works VERY hard to bring the players accurate & in depth quests and storyline, and you just want to skip it for end game PVP or to test out builds because you got a life? very lazy

ZOS did not work "very hard" to make Vet Content. They inserted One quest for Silver and one quest for Gold in order to make each character play the EXACT same quests for the other two factions & they could not possibly be more inaccurate to the faction you choose to represent with your character.

Endurance wrote: »

3. well dont forget this game is not all about grinding, elder scrolls is like a big novel there is a in depth storyline to it and the more interesting it gets, the more quests you would want to do.. cadwell silver & gold is an expansion to that large storyline.. why would everyone want to skip the storyline?

Again, making people play the exact same quests in all three factions is not an expansion of the storyline. It is a generic attempt to add a time sink to the game. Nothing more.

Endurance wrote: »

do you feel the competition vs the hardcore players is too much for you? you want to even the gameplay to your level of expectations? sorry to say but this game is not for you, go play runescape.. which reminds me, the 4th ranked runescape player has a life and only plays 2 ~ 3 hours a day and hes maxed out with 5billion exp! so using that busy with life or work excuse not to be able to level up past veteran content is complete BS

A smart MMO business model is to facilitate and encourage people to play alternate characters. The current system dissuades it. Many people would rather stick a red hot poker into their eyeball than do the V1-V14 grind with alternate characters. And many of the people that play alot of alts (altoholics) recognize immediately on their first character that leveling alts in this game is going to be a nightmare.

I couldn't possibly disagree with every single word you said any more than I do. And the margin of players that agree with me is MUCH higher than 3%

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/127899/do-you-like-or-dislike-increasing-vet-ranks/p1 Only 27% like Vet Ranks in this poll.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/104090/should-they-remove-vet-ranks Even split here. 50/50

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/148100/should-zos-get-rid-of-veteran-ranks/p1 Only 18% want to keep VRs here.

Every poll you find will have similar results. Clearly you enjoy them, but the overwhelming majority does not. ZoS is well aware of this.

Jules

SIN-X wrote: »

I agree remove vr levels just make it so they cant enter crag until they finish cadwells gold

No

sadownik

@Endurance

1. 3% of vr snobs want to force their will on all 97 % of players? Disgraceful!
2. You description of storyline in ESO is subjecitve - enough to say i see it as shallow and boring.
3. not for players that want to effectivly play PvP, and "big novel" mate i am a book freak, i have over 380 books and mt gf is worried that soon we will have to move out because they dont fit. I do not play games in general, and MMO games particualry for big novel. Are you insane? That "big novel" which is no more than medicore writing at best will hold you for years in this game? If so i strongly recommend to widen your horizons and get yourself some real art.
4. You find killing lower lvl palyers, or getting higher on leaderboards a great succes? Rebalance your life before its too late.

wraith808

Alphashado wrote: »

Again, making people play the exact same quests in all three factions is not an expansion of the storyline. It is a generic attempt to add a time sink to the game. Nothing more.

Actually, this is incorrect. Caldwell's Silver and Gold were added to similar outrage over the fact that you had to create alts to see the whole game. So... the outraged masses got what they wanted, and it was implemented to get it in, in a fashion that didn't account for the time it takes to go through them.

What I don't want is for them to implement something else half-baked in order to satisfy the vocal masses, which may or may not be a minority. I want them to design it in a way that doesn't introduce not only new bugs, but new issues with implementation. As far as my ideas... you can see them earlier in the thread.

Seraphyel

wraith808 wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Again, making people play the exact same quests in all three factions is not an expansion of the storyline. It is a generic attempt to add a time sink to the game. Nothing more.

Actually, this is incorrect. Caldwell's Silver and Gold were added to similar outrage over the fact that you had to create alts to see the whole game. So... the outraged masses got what they wanted, and it was implemented to get it in, in a fashion that didn't account for the time it takes to go through them.

What I don't want is for them to implement something else half-baked in order to satisfy the vocal masses, which may or may not be a minority. I want them to design it in a way that doesn't introduce not only new bugs, but new issues with implementation. As far as my ideas... you can see them earlier in the thread.

Those outraged masses were a little part of the community.

I don't know if those players have ever played another MMORPG before but it was OBVIOUS that it's not normal to play all stories of opposing factions.

You choose a faction for a reason.

Design? Design what? It's naive to think they will come up with something new to replace VR. If they remove it, they remove it in the easiest way.

Xjcon

Meh.....if they remove them I will still play. But I would seriously rather they focus on more end game content. I don't see why anyone wants to see months and months of work put in to change what isn't broken.

Endurance

Seraphyel wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Again, making people play the exact same quests in all three factions is not an expansion of the storyline. It is a generic attempt to add a time sink to the game. Nothing more.

Actually, this is incorrect. Caldwell's Silver and Gold were added to similar outrage over the fact that you had to create alts to see the whole game. So... the outraged masses got what they wanted, and it was implemented to get it in, in a fashion that didn't account for the time it takes to go through them.

What I don't want is for them to implement something else half-baked in order to satisfy the vocal masses, which may or may not be a minority. I want them to design it in a way that doesn't introduce not only new bugs, but new issues with implementation. As far as my ideas... you can see them earlier in the thread.

Those outraged masses were a little part of the community.

I don't know if those players have ever played another MMORPG before but it was OBVIOUS that it's not normal to play all stories of opposing factions.

You choose a faction for a reason.

Design? Design what? It's naive to think they will come up with something new to replace VR. If they remove it, they remove it in the easiest way.

they dont need to remove ANYTHING, so like i said before if the small few of you dont like VR then by all means stay level 49! ALOT of people were already complaining about the 1~50 grind being so easy and they wanted more of a challenge, now VR is just too much for them they want it removed?

Sallington

Removing VRs would be a larger overhaul than then the 1.6 champ points and stat inflation overhaul, by a large margin I would guess. All of that gear and content would need to be overhauled.



ZOS: "Not gun do it."

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

They already said vet ranks will not be gone before the console release. I know they claimed a while back in a ESO live thats still the plan (to remove VR). I doubt it happens tho. I think they looked at how much work it would be and thought better of it.

Jules

Xjcon wrote: »

Meh.....if they remove them I will still play. But I would seriously rather they focus on more end game content. I don't see why anyone wants to see months and months of work put in to change what isn't broken.

Agreed. We are content starved. Who cares about the VR levels.

wraith808

Seraphyel wrote: »

Those outraged masses were a little part of the community.

I don't know if those players have ever played another MMORPG before but it was OBVIOUS that it's not normal to play all stories of opposing factions.

It was the same 'little part' that got the API gutted. Wasn't saying that they were right... but it definitely had an effect.

Varicite

Endurance wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Again, making people play the exact same quests in all three factions is not an expansion of the storyline. It is a generic attempt to add a time sink to the game. Nothing more.

Actually, this is incorrect. Caldwell's Silver and Gold were added to similar outrage over the fact that you had to create alts to see the whole game. So... the outraged masses got what they wanted, and it was implemented to get it in, in a fashion that didn't account for the time it takes to go through them.

What I don't want is for them to implement something else half-baked in order to satisfy the vocal masses, which may or may not be a minority. I want them to design it in a way that doesn't introduce not only new bugs, but new issues with implementation. As far as my ideas... you can see them earlier in the thread.

Those outraged masses were a little part of the community.

I don't know if those players have ever played another MMORPG before but it was OBVIOUS that it's not normal to play all stories of opposing factions.

You choose a faction for a reason.

Design? Design what? It's naive to think they will come up with something new to replace VR. If they remove it, they remove it in the easiest way.

they dont need to remove ANYTHING, so like i said before if the small few of you dont like VR then by all means stay level 49! ALOT of people were already complaining about the 1~50 grind being so easy and they wanted more of a challenge, now VR is just too much for them they want it removed?

I don't think this has anything to do w/ the topic at hand.

You seem to be talking about them removing content, while the thread is more about removing the VR progression as is (as far as devs have actually said thus far, they may still flake) already planned.

All of the VR content would still be in the game, just scaled back slightly (and btw, all of the VR content was already heavily nerfed so it's not actually harder than lv49 content by much anymore outside of Craglorn/Dungeons/Trials) and would still be just as challenging as it is now.

With the Champion system in place, we no longer need the artificial progression that was once provided by Veteran Ranks. We have an actual progression system now.

Aimelin

They wont, they want to make the new players with TU & console release suffer first, then lose players again, then they'll do it

with all the dumb changes they made to the game recently, i dare not even think what they'll have in mind with the removal of vet ranks ....

god help us all

7788b14_ESO

b_archaonpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

Minack wrote: »

Anyone who is not a complete moron would support VR removal. In my opinion, VR/Cadwell S&G has been one of the worst design choices in MMO history and is the reason most people quit playing.

Oh, you called me a moron. Thank you so much! You have enlightened me with the luminance of your radiant intellect and I've seen the True Way. You have trully turned your opinion into rock-solid fact. No wonder, your planet-ranged mind-reading ways also revealed why so many players left! I am trully humbled. 10/10 argument, would troll again.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Also, level 90 is not the equivalent level conversion.
Clearing a faction gives a player at least 45-50 levels per faction. So silver and gold plus your original faction puts you at 150+
That's only taking you to VR10. Now to get to VR12 that's a couple more so it's at least 150+ character levels to be equivalent.

I would appreciate if you'd read my posts as well. I said:

(not 180, because gaining levels is supposed to slow down)

So, if you were to gain 50 lvls from each alliance, you'd get 150, plus some more = 180. Thing is, levels do not usually work like that in rpgs. Vet levels just need 1M XP each. Normal levels would need progressively more, thus about 90.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Zone chat is NOT for most of the things you listed but due to poor systems it's used in other manners. I literally play with zone chat off from 1-50 just to escape the recruiting, trade, crap convo, spamming, etc. I don't play to just sit and talk to ppl. I play to enjoy the game and talk to be better or help players who have in game related questions.

Well, you ARE entitled to turn /zone off, but don't complain about your inability to find teammates. It's an either/or matter.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Let's stay on topic please about VR levels.

If you want to comment about LFzg tool, there is a very active thread going on.

I just said it is a completely seperate problem. You were the one that felt the need to devote 1/3 of a large post to the lfg issue...

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

ZOS is removing a problem as the benefits of removing VR levels far outweighs the complexity of removing them. There are literally no reason not to remove them.

I can list reasons why ZOS shouldn't remove vet levels:

1)The whole game is balanced around vet levels. We've been beta- and live- testing the CS system WITH vet levels; high-end items are gated by vet levels, gear, consumables, you name it. Removing all this would take too much refactoring, which would live behind a slew of bugs.

2)As a consequence of the above, a large part of the dev team would work on said removal and its side-effects, instead of creating new content, something the game sorely needs.

3)The VR levels offer another sense of progression, a cornerstone of RPGs. The Champion System does that too, but more ways to progress=better.

4)VR levels and areas allow you to play without worrying about outlevelling content, as can happen during 1-50. If everything in Cadwell's gold and silver was lvl 50, though, I would find it really boring. The world would feel more static.

5)Many of the players have VR characters. Degrading them to lvl 50 would cause A LOT of complains. I would be leading such a movement. The 70CP were not a compensation for the VR levels themselves, but for the XP earned (and a half-assed at that), else they would have been given AT their removal, not months before.

6)Many new players would not be ready for end-game content by lvl 50. The VR levels encourage them to play in an enviroment that is slightly harder, mainly because it's harder to outlevel it. The same goes for old players levelling a class they don't know.

There are, of course, ways to solve the issues the VR levels create without removing them:

1) Real time scaling enemies. I believe that's what ZOS intends for the dlcs, the same as Neverwinter does for its 'event' areas.

2) Battle scaling in Cyrodiil for vet1-vet13.

3) Better lfg tool.

4) Cross-alliance options. Dungeons, Craglorn and all future non-pvp dlcs should be cross-faction. No excuses, no exceptions.

If removal would cause so many problems why would they say they would remove them in the first place? Surely they looked into the amount of work needed to make such a change before they said it. If they saw it your way they would have said so right off the bat. If they leave them now the only reason would be that it's less work for them.