Will you please complete the VR level removal / conversion to champion system by May (part 1)

NewBlacksmurf

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Last time they mentioned anything about the VR ranks removal all they said was thats still the plan. That was months ago on a ESO Live podcast thing. Personally I dont see how its going to go over well with the console crowd. Just as they start hitting max level is ZOS going to pull the rug out nerf all VR14 charactes back to lvl 50 and cap them there? Or do you think they will say "Man I know this is something we wanted to do but I dont see how its possible without alienating 90% of our base."?

ZOS needs to focus on releasing DLC new zones quests etc. Not revamping the leveling process again. Enough of the revamping lets get some REAL content. Then maybe they can discuss removing vet ranks.

People aren't going to be super happy to have to grind 14 VR levels before they can get to new endgame content, though.

So it's kind of a catch 22.

I started a nightblade while back. In 9 days played only doing quests I am VR11. I dont understand the whole thing about the "grind". Whats going to really upset people is all their gear and levels nerfed back to 50 after playing for months building said character.

The new DLC they said will scale so anyone can access it regardless of your level. So you wont have to grind anything if they put out a new zone. Just buy it and go there.

While it's highly questionable that you hit VR11 from level 1 in 9 days.... Most people are not going to do that. 98% of the population will never play 8-10 hours a day to do this......
Also the length of time it takes isn't really as big of an issue as the repeating the content for no reason other than an exp grind. Grind, quest marathon or whatever you want to call it.

Why are we being forced to replay the same quests and content over and over?

Gameplay should be designed for the majority of the player base not the opposite. VR levels 1-10 are really for a non casual player. A casual player has no interest in playing the same content at VR1-10 that a level 4 plays in another faction....

Therefor either convert the VR into champion levels as to give current VR chars rewards for their efforts and move forward

Varicite

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

The new DLC they said will scale so anyone can access it regardless of your level. So you wont have to grind anything if they put out a new zone. Just buy it and go there.

That is what they said of the DLC that is coming out first, which is focused on solo leveling. I don't know that will always be the case when it comes to endgame activities.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I started a nightblade while back. In 9 days played only doing quests I am VR11. I dont understand the whole thing about the "grind". Whats going to really upset people is all their gear and levels nerfed back to 50 after playing for months building said character.

As for the grind, it's just plain tedious. I've already gone through the story, I don't honestly WANT to do it 2 more times for factions that I don't belong to, and I definitely don't want to be forced to do this content on every single character (I have 16, but everybody has access to 8).

Out of curiosity, how many VR-level toons do you have? I have 6.

Doing the VR grind 8 times is unrealistically boring to subject players to go through, and yes I know that we are encouraged to do everything on the same character, but if that's the case why did they not just limit us to 1 character if that was the intention?

Clearly it isn't.

The plan has ALWAYS been to remove VR levels, and ZOS has already completely obsoleted everybody's top-end gear on more than one occasion (big middle finger set bonus rework, VR cap raises, etc), so I'm not inclined to think that they are too concerned w/ this.

Just like they completely reworked the balance in the game in 1.6, as part of the ongoing plan to remove Veteran Ranks.

They have already stated that w/ the removal of VRs they would be implementing Season Gear as a new progression model that more closely matches other gear treadmill MMOs that people are used to. Yes, there will still be gating, but it won't be as severe as what we currently have.

The plan was always to obsolete our gear. In fact, that is the exact system that they are adopting w/ Season Gear. Each Season, a new set of gear better than the last one comes out, making last Season's gear more easily obtainable. A continuing cycle of gear obsoleting.

I am just asking ZOS when they plan to continue the next step of VR removal, or if they've just changed their minds internally and are just leading us on..... again.

Hurbster

Coldharbour isn't that so great that I want to go through it more than once.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Last time they mentioned anything about the VR ranks removal all they said was thats still the plan. That was months ago on a ESO Live podcast thing. Personally I dont see how its going to go over well with the console crowd. Just as they start hitting max level is ZOS going to pull the rug out nerf all VR14 charactes back to lvl 50 and cap them there? Or do you think they will say "Man I know this is something we wanted to do but I dont see how its possible without alienating 90% of our base."?

ZOS needs to focus on releasing DLC new zones quests etc. Not revamping the leveling process again. Enough of the revamping lets get some REAL content. Then maybe they can discuss removing vet ranks.

People aren't going to be super happy to have to grind 14 VR levels before they can get to new endgame content, though.

So it's kind of a catch 22.

I started a nightblade while back. In 9 days played only doing quests I am VR11. I dont understand the whole thing about the "grind". Whats going to really upset people is all their gear and levels nerfed back to 50 after playing for months building said character.

The new DLC they said will scale so anyone can access it regardless of your level. So you wont have to grind anything if they put out a new zone. Just buy it and go there.

While it's highly questionable that you hit VR11 from level 1 in 9 days.... Most people are not going to do that. 98% of the population will never play 8-10 hours a day to do this......
Also the length of time it takes isn't really as big of an issue as the repeating the content for no reason other than an exp grind. Grind, quest marathon or whatever you want to call it.

Why are we being forced to replay the same quests and content over and over?

9 days PLAYED time. Not 9 days total. Talking about 9x24 hrs in the game. Took me a couple months actually because I work alot etc.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Last time they mentioned anything about the VR ranks removal all they said was thats still the plan. That was months ago on a ESO Live podcast thing. Personally I dont see how its going to go over well with the console crowd. Just as they start hitting max level is ZOS going to pull the rug out nerf all VR14 charactes back to lvl 50 and cap them there? Or do you think they will say "Man I know this is something we wanted to do but I dont see how its possible without alienating 90% of our base."?

ZOS needs to focus on releasing DLC new zones quests etc. Not revamping the leveling process again. Enough of the revamping lets get some REAL content. Then maybe they can discuss removing vet ranks.

People aren't going to be super happy to have to grind 14 VR levels before they can get to new endgame content, though.

So it's kind of a catch 22.

I started a nightblade while back. In 9 days played only doing quests I am VR11. I dont understand the whole thing about the "grind". Whats going to really upset people is all their gear and levels nerfed back to 50 after playing for months building said character.

Out of curiosity, how many VR-level toons do you have? I have 6.

The new DLC they said will scale so anyone can access it regardless of your level. So you wont have to grind anything if they put out a new zone. Just buy it and go there.

That is what they said of the DLC that is coming out first, which is focused on solo leveling. I don't know that will always be the case when it comes to endgame activities.

As for the grind, it's just plain tedious. I've already gone through the story, I don't honestly WANT to do it 2 more times for factions that I don't belong to, and I definitely don't want to be forced to do this content on every single character (I have 16, but everybody has access to 8).

Doing the VR grind 8 times is unrealistically boring to subject players to go through, and yes I know that we are encouraged to do everything on the same character, but if that's the case why did they not just limit us to 1 character if that was the intention?

Clearly it isn't.

The plan has ALWAYS been to remove VR levels, and ZOS has already completely obsoleted everybody's top-end gear on more than one occasion (big middle finger set bonus rework, VR cap raises, etc), so I'm not inclined to think that they are too concerned w/ this.

Just like they completely reworked the balance in the game in 1.6, as part of the ongoing plan to remove Veteran Ranks.

They have already stated that w/ the removal of VRs they would be implementing Season Gear as a new progression model that more closely matches other gear treadmill MMOs that people are used to. Yes, there will still be gating, but it won't be as severe as what we currently have.

The plan was always to obsolete our gear. In fact, that is the exact system that they are adopting w/ Season Gear. Each Season, a new set of gear better than the last one comes out, making last Season's gear more easily obtainable. A continuing cycle of gear obsoleting.

I am just asking ZOS when they plan to continue the next step of VR removal, or if they've just changed their minds internally and are just leading us on..... again.

Im sure the announcement will come eventually. They already said it definitely wouldn't be before console release in June. I expect sometime after the console launch they will make an announcement about it. Im betting saying they are going to just leave the game as it is and focus on releasing zones and other stuff people want to buy.

Also you say people wont want to do the vet rank stuff 8 times. I have been here since launch I havent even done all the VR stuff once. I have multiple characters but none VR14. So I think you are assuming alot. I will never have no 8 vr14 characters. Ill be lucky to have one before the next level increase.

Varicite

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Last time they mentioned anything about the VR ranks removal all they said was thats still the plan. That was months ago on a ESO Live podcast thing. Personally I dont see how its going to go over well with the console crowd. Just as they start hitting max level is ZOS going to pull the rug out nerf all VR14 charactes back to lvl 50 and cap them there? Or do you think they will say "Man I know this is something we wanted to do but I dont see how its possible without alienating 90% of our base."?

ZOS needs to focus on releasing DLC new zones quests etc. Not revamping the leveling process again. Enough of the revamping lets get some REAL content. Then maybe they can discuss removing vet ranks.

People aren't going to be super happy to have to grind 14 VR levels before they can get to new endgame content, though.

So it's kind of a catch 22.

I started a nightblade while back. In 9 days played only doing quests I am VR11. I dont understand the whole thing about the "grind". Whats going to really upset people is all their gear and levels nerfed back to 50 after playing for months building said character.

Out of curiosity, how many VR-level toons do you have? I have 6.

The new DLC they said will scale so anyone can access it regardless of your level. So you wont have to grind anything if they put out a new zone. Just buy it and go there.

That is what they said of the DLC that is coming out first, which is focused on solo leveling. I don't know that will always be the case when it comes to endgame activities.

As for the grind, it's just plain tedious. I've already gone through the story, I don't honestly WANT to do it 2 more times for factions that I don't belong to, and I definitely don't want to be forced to do this content on every single character (I have 16, but everybody has access to 8).

Doing the VR grind 8 times is unrealistically boring to subject players to go through, and yes I know that we are encouraged to do everything on the same character, but if that's the case why did they not just limit us to 1 character if that was the intention?

Clearly it isn't.

The plan has ALWAYS been to remove VR levels, and ZOS has already completely obsoleted everybody's top-end gear on more than one occasion (big middle finger set bonus rework, VR cap raises, etc), so I'm not inclined to think that they are too concerned w/ this.

Just like they completely reworked the balance in the game in 1.6, as part of the ongoing plan to remove Veteran Ranks.

They have already stated that w/ the removal of VRs they would be implementing Season Gear as a new progression model that more closely matches other gear treadmill MMOs that people are used to. Yes, there will still be gating, but it won't be as severe as what we currently have.

The plan was always to obsolete our gear. In fact, that is the exact system that they are adopting w/ Season Gear. Each Season, a new set of gear better than the last one comes out, making last Season's gear more easily obtainable. A continuing cycle of gear obsoleting.

I am just asking ZOS when they plan to continue the next step of VR removal, or if they've just changed their minds internally and are just leading us on..... again.

Im sure the announcement will come eventually. They already said it definitely wouldn't be before console release in June. I expect sometime after the console launch they will make an announcement about it. Im betting saying they are going to just leave the game as it is and focus on releasing zones and other stuff people want to buy.

Also you say people wont want to do the vet rank stuff 8 times. I have been here since launch I havent even done all the VR stuff once. I have multiple characters but none VR14. So I think you are assuming alot. I will never have no 8 vr14 characters. Ill be lucky to have one before the next level increase.

Unfortunately, I actually agree w/ you.

And that's what pisses me off.

NewBlacksmurf

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Last time they mentioned anything about the VR ranks removal all they said was thats still the plan. That was months ago on a ESO Live podcast thing. Personally I dont see how its going to go over well with the console crowd. Just as they start hitting max level is ZOS going to pull the rug out nerf all VR14 charactes back to lvl 50 and cap them there? Or do you think they will say "Man I know this is something we wanted to do but I dont see how its possible without alienating 90% of our base."?

ZOS needs to focus on releasing DLC new zones quests etc. Not revamping the leveling process again. Enough of the revamping lets get some REAL content. Then maybe they can discuss removing vet ranks.

People aren't going to be super happy to have to grind 14 VR levels before they can get to new endgame content, though.

So it's kind of a catch 22.

I started a nightblade while back. In 9 days played only doing quests I am VR11. I dont understand the whole thing about the "grind". Whats going to really upset people is all their gear and levels nerfed back to 50 after playing for months building said character.

The new DLC they said will scale so anyone can access it regardless of your level. So you wont have to grind anything if they put out a new zone. Just buy it and go there.

While it's highly questionable that you hit VR11 from level 1 in 9 days.... Most people are not going to do that. 98% of the population will never play 8-10 hours a day to do this......
Also the length of time it takes isn't really as big of an issue as the repeating the content for no reason other than an exp grind. Grind, quest marathon or whatever you want to call it.

Why are we being forced to replay the same quests and content over and over?

9 days PLAYED time. Not 9 days total. Talking about 9x24 hrs in the game. Took me a couple months actually because I work alot etc.

OK!
I was thinking either there is a typo or they know something we don't about leveling

Minack

wraith808 wrote: »

Minack wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Minack wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

So those who don't want to get rid of Vet levels. Can I have all your CPs you were awarded for them ?

You have to earn CP just like everyone else. Nothing gets handed to anyone.

So what was those 70 CP handed out for then ?
You know the 200,000xp per CP exchange system we had ?

Time to pay the debt.

There is no logic in this. There are two forms of advancement going on at the same time... Vertical, and Horizontal but really vertical.

Your experience goes towards both. the 70 CP was as compensation for the fact that people had already gained XP prior to the CP release.

No... all those CP points you received was part of the Vet rank removal process and compensation in lieu of removal.
Now everyone is crying when its time to pay the debt.
So either return the upto 70 CP points you received and keep the ranks....or take the CP points and accept the loss of the ranks.

No, it was not as compensation. It was as a move towards a final goal, that may or may not occur. That was clearly stated (other than the may not- but that's why we're having this discussion).

Minack wrote: »

Anyone who is not a complete moron would support VR removal. In my opinion, VR/Cadwell S&G has been one of the worst design choices in MMO history and is the reason most people quit playing.

Fallacies in debate don't give your argument any more weight. From what I've seen on the boards (admittedly a small sample set), and experienced personally, the problem wasn't in the VRs. The problem was in the details of implementation, probably brought on by the fact that in the end, people wanted to be able to go through all three factions' contents without making alts in other alliances. They decided to implement that- but overestimated peoples' willingness to grind through single player content, and underestimated the reward to make them actually *worth* it. 10 levels of XP for the same (and less in the beginning) reward than going through normal levels? Who thought that was going to be received well?

Thanks for making my point.

Making your point? In what way?

That VR/Cadwell is a crap system that was implemented in a crappy manner.

That wasn't your point. But hey, changing course in the middle of a debate is always a good way to alter focus from your argument.

What are you reading? Vr/Cadwell is a horrible system that was implemented in a horrible way. It's the albatross around ESO's neck. Anyone who would advocate keeping VR/Cadwell, I have to assume, is recovering from a serious head injury.

But by all means, please tell me what my point was.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Whats horrible about it? I mean I cant really tell what your point is. I can tell you dont like VR ranks altho you havent said why other than they are horrible and they suck etc. Feedback is usually ignored if its only "VR ranks suck get rid of them". Honestly if VR was so bad why is everyone still playing?

NewBlacksmurf

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Whats horrible about it? I mean I cant really tell what your point is. I can tell you dont like VR ranks altho you havent said why other than they are horrible and they suck etc. Feedback is usually ignored if its only "VR ranks suck get rid of them". Honestly if VR was so bad why is everyone still playing?

-VR is horrible because ZOS is using it as a roadblock to PvE endgame
-VR is bad because it was first introduced due to lack of content when there was no endgame
-VR is bad because it shouldn't have stayed after closed BETA
-Also it's used to slow down progression towards end game viability
-It literally serves no purpose other than allowing people to replay other factions (which anyone can do at level 4-50 so why do it again at vr1-vr10)
-people aren't staying around...they are leaving in very large numbers (so the sub was removed from PC)
-people are still leaving after realizing the VR road block still exists but now it's worse
-VR offers nothing at all other than hours of replaying content that people have already played unless they have no alts in other factions
-VR sucks so bad that ZOS is getting rid of them this the conversion of VR to champion point prior to removing VR levels

Minack

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Whats horrible about it? I mean I cant really tell what your point is. I can tell you dont like VR ranks altho you havent said why other than they are horrible and they suck etc. Feedback is usually ignored if its only "VR ranks suck get rid of them". Honestly if VR was so bad why is everyone still playing?

You have two choices for reaching VR14 in a reasonable and efficient amount of time. Cadwell or AOE grinding. Both are boring and unimaginative. Cadwell's, in particular, completely destroys any interest in leveling alts for other factions. I've been here since private BETA and have leveled 3 characters through Cadwell. I might finish a fourth, but I seriously doubt I'll muster enough courage to go through it two more times for the other two factions. You yourself haven't even finished ONE character to vr14.

I think people are still playing because A: they're are new, or B: have hope VR will be revamped. After all, that was the promise from ZOS announced months ago. I have no doubt there are players who view ESO as a single player game and enjoy leveling or taking their time, but I seriously doubt they are any significant plurality. Once the console version is released and players start entering the VR zones, this forum is going to look exactly like it did last April.

Varicite

I'm firmly in Camp B.

I don't think that I'll continue playing if they flake on removing VRs. I know that doesn't matter to anyone, but for me personally, that's gonna be the nail in the coffin as it's heavily impeding my enjoyment of the game.

As I said, I know that my situation is unique as I have multiple VR toons, but going from VR1-14 multiple times is probably the most mind-numbingly boring and depressing thing that I've had to do in the past year.

I don't play games to be bored.

/shrug

And more importantly, removing VRs finally allows players the CHOICE of endgame activities, instead of either A) questing for eternity or B ) AoE grinding for eternity just to get to the point where they can finally DO something meaningful.

Now instead of the VR grind, you hit 50 and IF you want to do Cadwell's, you can do that. IF you want to go to Craglorn, you can do that too. IF you want to PvP, hop right in. IF you want to focus on dungeons / Trials, you aren't prohibited anymore by the grind.

That's what the whole point of this Champion system change was, to allow players more freedom in their endgame activities. They had a somewhat solid idea to replace the progression that the VR system allowed through the Season Gear system and Champion Points.

They just need to follow through and the game will very likely be better for it.

Minack

Varicite wrote: »

I'm firmly in Camp B.

I don't think that I'll continue playing if they flake on removing VRs. I know that doesn't matter to anyone, but for me personally, that's gonna be the nail in the coffin as it's heavily impeding my enjoyment of the game.

As I said, I know that my situation is unique as I have multiple VR toons, but going from VR1-14 multiple times is probably the most mind-numbingly boring and depressing thing that I've had to do in the past year.

I don't play games to be bored.

/shrug

I have close to a dozen players from other games and guilds that would like to play and PvP in ESO but they will not play as long as VR/Cadwell remains as is. ZOS could have such a higher population and probably crown purchases if they'd just rethink their leveling ideas.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Whats horrible about it? I mean I cant really tell what your point is. I can tell you dont like VR ranks altho you havent said why other than they are horrible and they suck etc. Feedback is usually ignored if its only "VR ranks suck get rid of them". Honestly if VR was so bad why is everyone still playing?

-VR is horrible because ZOS is using it as a roadblock to PvE endgame
-VR is bad because it was first introduced due to lack of content when there was no endgame
-VR is bad because it shouldn't have stayed after closed BETA
-Also it's used to slow down progression towards end game viability
-It literally serves no purpose other than allowing people to replay other factions (which anyone can do at level 4-50 so why do it again at vr1-vr10)
-people aren't staying around...they are leaving in very large numbers (so the sub was removed from PC)
-people are still leaving after realizing the VR road block still exists but now it's worse
-VR offers nothing at all other than hours of replaying content that people have already played unless they have no alts in other factions
-VR sucks so bad that ZOS is getting rid of them this the conversion of VR to champion point prior to removing VR levels

Well all of this is subjective. You claim "people" are leaving because of VR levels. Who are these people? Also I really like the fact I can do all three factions quests on one character. As the game evolves there will be other ways to hit VR14 besides the silver/gold stuff.

Honestly I think it was more all the bugs in the level 1-50 content than the VR ranks drove people away and led to the b2p switch. Craglorn was a disaster noone likes it. They havent really added any new zones other than those since launch which also contributed to it.

So I mean still you just say they "suck" and that people are leaving etc. Thats just not enough detail to work on. Fact is a ton of people dont mind the vet ranks. I would say the majority dont have any issues with it. Yes maybe a few people on the forums might. So I doubt your claim "people" are leaving because of it.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Minack wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

I'm firmly in Camp B.

I don't think that I'll continue playing if they flake on removing VRs. I know that doesn't matter to anyone, but for me personally, that's gonna be the nail in the coffin as it's heavily impeding my enjoyment of the game.

As I said, I know that my situation is unique as I have multiple VR toons, but going from VR1-14 multiple times is probably the most mind-numbingly boring and depressing thing that I've had to do in the past year.

I don't play games to be bored.

/shrug

I have close to a dozen players from other games and guilds that would like to play and PvP in ESO but they will not play as long as VR/Cadwell remains as is. ZOS could have such a higher population and probably crown purchases if they'd just rethink their leveling ideas.

I hear this all the time too. I have 1000 friends who are wanting to buy the game only if you change it to the way I like it. Sorry but not buying this. If they really wanted to play the game they would do it. A dozen people hardly makes a blip and wouldnt pay for 1 day's wages of the person in charge of making these sweeping changes.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Minack wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Whats horrible about it? I mean I cant really tell what your point is. I can tell you dont like VR ranks altho you havent said why other than they are horrible and they suck etc. Feedback is usually ignored if its only "VR ranks suck get rid of them". Honestly if VR was so bad why is everyone still playing?

You have two choices for reaching VR14 in a reasonable and efficient amount of time. Cadwell or AOE grinding. Both are boring and unimaginative. Cadwell's, in particular, completely destroys any interest in leveling alts for other factions. I've been here since private BETA and have leveled 3 characters through Cadwell. I might finish a fourth, but I seriously doubt I'll muster enough courage to go through it two more times for the other two factions. You yourself haven't even finished ONE character to vr14.

I think people are still playing because A: they're are new, or B: have hope VR will be revamped. After all, that was the promise from ZOS announced months ago. I have no doubt there are players who view ESO as a single player game and enjoy leveling or taking their time, but I seriously doubt they are any significant plurality. Once the console version is released and players start entering the VR zones, this forum is going to look exactly like it did last April.

I havent leveled a character to VR14 because I hate craglorn. Everytime I hit VR10 I start over. If I could hit VR14 by doing cadwells twice on the same character I would. Plus I dont rush to the end cap. I complete everything along the way.

Varicite

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Minack wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

I'm firmly in Camp B.

I don't think that I'll continue playing if they flake on removing VRs. I know that doesn't matter to anyone, but for me personally, that's gonna be the nail in the coffin as it's heavily impeding my enjoyment of the game.

As I said, I know that my situation is unique as I have multiple VR toons, but going from VR1-14 multiple times is probably the most mind-numbingly boring and depressing thing that I've had to do in the past year.

I don't play games to be bored.

/shrug

I have close to a dozen players from other games and guilds that would like to play and PvP in ESO but they will not play as long as VR/Cadwell remains as is. ZOS could have such a higher population and probably crown purchases if they'd just rethink their leveling ideas.

I hear this all the time too. I have 1000 friends who are wanting to buy the game only if you change it to the way I like it. Sorry but not buying this. If they really wanted to play the game they would do it. A dozen people hardly makes a blip and wouldnt pay for 1 day's wages of the person in charge of making these sweeping changes.

Clearly enough people were unhappy w/ the VR system that they created an entirely new progression system and overhauled the game to implement it. And look how far we have come, Phase 3 of that implementation.

We are just asking when Phase 4 will take place.

I'm not really sure you have a leg to stand on here.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Minack wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

I'm firmly in Camp B.

I don't think that I'll continue playing if they flake on removing VRs. I know that doesn't matter to anyone, but for me personally, that's gonna be the nail in the coffin as it's heavily impeding my enjoyment of the game.

As I said, I know that my situation is unique as I have multiple VR toons, but going from VR1-14 multiple times is probably the most mind-numbingly boring and depressing thing that I've had to do in the past year.

I don't play games to be bored.

/shrug

I have close to a dozen players from other games and guilds that would like to play and PvP in ESO but they will not play as long as VR/Cadwell remains as is. ZOS could have such a higher population and probably crown purchases if they'd just rethink their leveling ideas.

I hear this all the time too. I have 1000 friends who are wanting to buy the game only if you change it to the way I like it. Sorry but not buying this. If they really wanted to play the game they would do it. A dozen people hardly makes a blip and wouldnt pay for 1 day's wages of the person in charge of making these sweeping changes.

Clearly enough people were unhappy w/ the VR system that they created an entirely new progression system and overhauled the game to implement it. And look how far we have come, Phase 3 of that implementation.

We are just asking when Phase 4 will take place.

I'm not really sure you have a leg to stand on here.

Im just saying what my opinion is. The fact is they say that is still the plan to remove vet ranks. My opinion (like it or not) is thats never going to happen. Thats the discussion. Noone has any legs to stand on. Just opinions on what should happen or what they would like to happen.

Varicite

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Minack wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

I'm firmly in Camp B.

I don't think that I'll continue playing if they flake on removing VRs. I know that doesn't matter to anyone, but for me personally, that's gonna be the nail in the coffin as it's heavily impeding my enjoyment of the game.

As I said, I know that my situation is unique as I have multiple VR toons, but going from VR1-14 multiple times is probably the most mind-numbingly boring and depressing thing that I've had to do in the past year.

I don't play games to be bored.

/shrug

I have close to a dozen players from other games and guilds that would like to play and PvP in ESO but they will not play as long as VR/Cadwell remains as is. ZOS could have such a higher population and probably crown purchases if they'd just rethink their leveling ideas.

I hear this all the time too. I have 1000 friends who are wanting to buy the game only if you change it to the way I like it. Sorry but not buying this. If they really wanted to play the game they would do it. A dozen people hardly makes a blip and wouldnt pay for 1 day's wages of the person in charge of making these sweeping changes.

Clearly enough people were unhappy w/ the VR system that they created an entirely new progression system and overhauled the game to implement it. And look how far we have come, Phase 3 of that implementation.

We are just asking when Phase 4 will take place.

I'm not really sure you have a leg to stand on here.

Im just saying what my opinion is. The fact is they say that is still the plan to remove vet ranks. My opinion (like it or not) is thats never going to happen. Thats the discussion. Noone has any legs to stand on. Just opinions on what should happen or what they would like to happen.

To be fair, the discussion in the OP is clearly about WHEN they will be removing VRs and hoping to speed up the timeline, not IF they will.

Now, there has been a healthy bit of opinion injected into the thread, but that is actually the original discussion.

NewBlacksmurf

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Minack wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

I'm firmly in Camp B.

I don't think that I'll continue playing if they flake on removing VRs. I know that doesn't matter to anyone, but for me personally, that's gonna be the nail in the coffin as it's heavily impeding my enjoyment of the game.

As I said, I know that my situation is unique as I have multiple VR toons, but going from VR1-14 multiple times is probably the most mind-numbingly boring and depressing thing that I've had to do in the past year.

I don't play games to be bored.

/shrug

I have close to a dozen players from other games and guilds that would like to play and PvP in ESO but they will not play as long as VR/Cadwell remains as is. ZOS could have such a higher population and probably crown purchases if they'd just rethink their leveling ideas.

I hear this all the time too. I have 1000 friends who are wanting to buy the game only if you change it to the way I like it. Sorry but not buying this. If they really wanted to play the game they would do it. A dozen people hardly makes a blip and wouldnt pay for 1 day's wages of the person in charge of making these sweeping changes.

Clearly enough people were unhappy w/ the VR system that they created an entirely new progression system and overhauled the game to implement it. And look how far we have come, Phase 3 of that implementation.

We are just asking when Phase 4 will take place.

I'm not really sure you have a leg to stand on here.

Im just saying what my opinion is. The fact is they say that is still the plan to remove vet ranks. My opinion (like it or not) is thats never going to happen. Thats the discussion. Noone has any legs to stand on. Just opinions on what should happen or what they would like to happen.

To be fair, the discussion in the OP is clearly about WHEN they will be removing VRs and hoping to speed up the timeline, not IF they will.

Now, there has been a healthy bit of opinion injected into the thread, but that is actually the original discussion.

^THIS. Thank you for pointing this out!

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Minack wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

I'm firmly in Camp B.

I don't think that I'll continue playing if they flake on removing VRs. I know that doesn't matter to anyone, but for me personally, that's gonna be the nail in the coffin as it's heavily impeding my enjoyment of the game.

As I said, I know that my situation is unique as I have multiple VR toons, but going from VR1-14 multiple times is probably the most mind-numbingly boring and depressing thing that I've had to do in the past year.

I don't play games to be bored.

/shrug

I have close to a dozen players from other games and guilds that would like to play and PvP in ESO but they will not play as long as VR/Cadwell remains as is. ZOS could have such a higher population and probably crown purchases if they'd just rethink their leveling ideas.

I hear this all the time too. I have 1000 friends who are wanting to buy the game only if you change it to the way I like it. Sorry but not buying this. If they really wanted to play the game they would do it. A dozen people hardly makes a blip and wouldnt pay for 1 day's wages of the person in charge of making these sweeping changes.

Clearly enough people were unhappy w/ the VR system that they created an entirely new progression system and overhauled the game to implement it. And look how far we have come, Phase 3 of that implementation.

We are just asking when Phase 4 will take place.

I'm not really sure you have a leg to stand on here.

Im just saying what my opinion is. The fact is they say that is still the plan to remove vet ranks. My opinion (like it or not) is thats never going to happen. Thats the discussion. Noone has any legs to stand on. Just opinions on what should happen or what they would like to happen.

To be fair, the discussion in the OP is clearly about WHEN they will be removing VRs and hoping to speed up the timeline, not IF they will.

Now, there has been a healthy bit of opinion injected into the thread, but that is actually the original discussion.

Yes then the discussion turned to whether it is even feasible to remove them. If you do what do you replace them with? You guys make it sound so easy just remove them. Meanwhile we havent had any new zones besides craglorn in a year. People are leaving in droves because once they hit VR10 they are forced into groups or forced to reroll. I havent heard a single person in the game complain even once about having to do VR content.

So yes makes me wonder why bother removing them. A few dozen people leave over it seems alot cheaper than spending all those dev resources removing it. I know they said they would but I think the game as a whole would be better served if they stopped revamping basic systems and started making content people will buy for $$. Noone is buying revamps. Those are free. Those dont bring money in.

NewBlacksmurf

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Whats horrible about it? I mean I cant really tell what your point is. I can tell you dont like VR ranks altho you havent said why other than they are horrible and they suck etc. Feedback is usually ignored if its only "VR ranks suck get rid of them". Honestly if VR was so bad why is everyone still playing?

-VR is horrible because ZOS is using it as a roadblock to PvE endgame
-VR is bad because it was first introduced due to lack of content when there was no endgame
-VR is bad because it shouldn't have stayed after closed BETA
-Also it's used to slow down progression towards end game viability
-It literally serves no purpose other than allowing people to replay other factions (which anyone can do at level 4-50 so why do it again at vr1-vr10)
-people aren't staying around...they are leaving in very large numbers (so the sub was removed from PC)
-people are still leaving after realizing the VR road block still exists but now it's worse
-VR offers nothing at all other than hours of replaying content that people have already played unless they have no alts in other factions
-VR sucks so bad that ZOS is getting rid of them this the conversion of VR to champion point prior to removing VR levels

Well all of this is subjective. You claim "people" are leaving because of VR levels. Who are these people? Also I really like the fact I can do all three factions quests on one character. As the game evolves there will be other ways to hit VR14 besides the silver/gold stuff.

Honestly I think it was more all the bugs in the level 1-50 content than the VR ranks drove people away and led to the b2p switch. Craglorn was a disaster noone likes it. They havent really added any new zones other than those since launch which also contributed to it.

So I mean still you just say they "suck" and that people are leaving etc. Thats just not enough detail to work on. Fact is a ton of people dont mind the vet ranks. I would say the majority dont have any issues with it. Yes maybe a few people on the forums might. So I doubt your claim "people" are leaving because of it.

Do you follow the twitch live feeds, do you participate on PTS, do you go into the developer forums, were you a part of closed beta?
The comments I'm posting are from polls, threads, some ZOS confirmations

The VR levels according to ZOS need to be removed. It's not an argument or opinion...it's fact.
The reasons why I think they should go or any other player are just commentary at this point because as my OP points out.....it's going to happen. My phase 1 is about phasing part 4 of the VR removal. That's it.

Your opinions why they should stay don't warrant the VR levels staying because all of your arguments are about the content. No one is removing content, even tho many don't like the silver n gold quests.

The topic and points are ideas around a successful removal and exactly when.

The subs are down...that's fact
People have left and still are leaving....that's a fact.
Just because new people may buy the game or come back doesn't negate that many are leaving and that subs are way down.

Simple logic, when the sub was removed the servers suffered.....the fact is a ton of people were no longer online. A ton came back for free.....that confirms subs are down and that people are leaving.

People coming back cause it's free doesn't suggest they are resubbing or staying as ZOS hasn't changed the server maintenance but the server lag is drastically improving....people came and have gone.

Varicite

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

People are leaving in droves because once they hit VR10 they are forced into groups or forced to reroll. I havent heard a single person in the game complain even once about having to do VR content.

I have. Now can we stop talking about anecdotes?

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Yes then the discussion turned to whether it is even feasible to remove them. If you do what do you replace them with? You guys make it sound so easy just remove them. Meanwhile we havent had any new zones besides craglorn in a year.

The absence of new content is a completely separate issue, though it seems pretty obvious that much of the content that's been revealed to us since Summer is very likely ready to go and they are just waiting on a good time (for them) to release it.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

So yes makes me wonder why bother removing them. A few dozen people leave over it seems alot cheaper than spending all those dev resources removing it. I know they said they would but I think the game as a whole would be better served if they stopped revamping basic systems and started making content people will buy for $$. Noone is buying revamps. Those are free. Those dont bring money in.

A few dozen. Now you're the one making up imaginary numbers, my friend. : P

Why do you need to replace the levels? Why is that even an issue? We have the Champion System and Season gear (when VRs are removed) for character progression.

The easiest thing would simply be to convert the VR levels into a new level cap (ie: lv64, etc), though I'd rather just seem them do away w/ those levels completely for a while (not forever, I know that level caps need to be raised from time to time).

It seems to me that people are going out of their way to make something seem more difficult than it really is.

The game would be a whole lot better if people weren't forced to grind through content they don't enjoy in order to get to the content that they do, imo. I'd take that over Wrothgar coming out a couple months sooner any day.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Come there is you and the other guy posting in this thread. One more thread where you guys are dominating that as well. So I think Im pretty close anyways. As far as the rest you guys have your opinions and other people differ. It doesnt make any of us wrong.

Maybe the solution is just to sell you guys VR14s already maxxed out so you can skip 99% of the game and do the 1% you like.

maryriv

MMO should never cater to the casual, it makes for a very poor MMO, just cater to the good players, the casuals will automatically have their fun.

Varicite

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Come there is you and the other guy posting in this thread. One more thread where you guys are dominating that as well. So I think Im pretty close anyways. As far as the rest you guys have your opinions and other people differ. It doesnt make any of us wrong.

Maybe the solution is just to sell you guys VR14s already maxxed out so you can skip 99% of the game and do the 1% you like.

Why should VR1-14 grind be 99% of the game?

All you are doing is playing the same game AGAIN, and then AGAIN. And you're forced to do this or AoE grind mobs in spots that are constantly being nerfed.

I'm not really "dominating" anything, I am simply supporting ZOS' original decision to remove VRs, which is a lot of why I still continue to play the game in hopes that they'll make good on their plan.

Because I have 6 VRs, and most of them are sitting right now because doing the same thing over and over and over again is tedious.

Are you suggesting that I shouldn't continue to post about issues that I care about?

NewBlacksmurf

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Come there is you and the other guy posting in this thread. One more thread where you guys are dominating that as well. So I think Im pretty close anyways. As far as the rest you guys have your opinions and other people differ. It doesnt make any of us wrong.

Maybe the solution is just to sell you guys VR14s already maxxed out so you can skip 99% of the game and do the 1% you like.

You don't follow our comments....it's not about being VR14. The points we make aren't that we can't get to VR14 or that we don't have VR14's. It's the design of VR levels that's the issue.
The 99% of the game we like, we are playing but the part we don't like can't be skipped by poor design. That's the problem.

The problem is not a character level but instead a poor design

NewBlacksmurf

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

People are leaving in droves because once they hit VR10 they are forced into groups or forced to reroll. I havent heard a single person in the game complain even once about having to do VR content.

I have. Now can we stop talking about anecdotes?

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Yes then the discussion turned to whether it is even feasible to remove them. If you do what do you replace them with? You guys make it sound so easy just remove them. Meanwhile we havent had any new zones besides craglorn in a year.

The absence of new content is a completely separate issue, though it seems pretty obvious that much of the content that's been revealed to us since Summer is very likely ready to go and they are just waiting on a good time (for them) to release it.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

So yes makes me wonder why bother removing them. A few dozen people leave over it seems alot cheaper than spending all those dev resources removing it. I know they said they would but I think the game as a whole would be better served if they stopped revamping basic systems and started making content people will buy for $$. Noone is buying revamps. Those are free. Those dont bring money in.

A few dozen. Now you're the one making up imaginary numbers, my friend. : P

Why do you need to replace the levels? Why is that even an issue? We have the Champion System and Season gear (when VRs are removed) for character progression.

The easiest thing would simply be to convert the VR levels into a new level cap (ie: lv64, etc), though I'd rather just seem them do away w/ those levels completely for a while (not forever, I know that level caps need to be raised from time to time).

It seems to me that people are going out of their way to make something seem more difficult than it really is.

The game would be a whole lot better if people weren't forced to grind through content they don't enjoy in order to get to the content that they do, imo. I'd take that over Wrothgar coming out a couple months sooner any day.

If you changed the level cap to 64 it's literally the exact problem of creating VR levels and raising them from VR8-VR14. This is what started the problem. And anytime a game raising the max character level without also creating plentiful amounts of new content people will outgrow the content.

The entire VR levels need to be removed and convert any existing VR items or requirements into the champion levels system.

This way no one is getting shafted and no one is getting anything for free or without work.
Also once gated content is opened or unlocked, any new 50 is not gated as so they can join others and allow the game to help people play together online instead of gating and secluding everyone.

Even if new content were added now....step 1 is using the champion system and leaving people at level 50+cp level (not dropping anyone down to 50)

Varicite

Yeah, that is why I'd rather they not go that route.

Unfortunately, the fact is that they have given 0 details about how they wish to proceed, and the latest clarifying information that I can find on the subject simply states that they "don't know" how they are going to go about the removal.

Personally, I say just make 50 the cap.

Alphashado

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Whats horrible about it? I mean I cant really tell what your point is. I can tell you dont like VR ranks altho you havent said why other than they are horrible and they suck etc. Feedback is usually ignored if its only "VR ranks suck get rid of them". Honestly if VR was so bad why is everyone still playing?

C'mon man. There are literally at least a hundred threads on this forum alone describing what's wrong with Vet Ranks. Just search "Vet Ranks" or Veteran Ranks" and read to your heart's content.

Look at the polls.

Look at the average level of inactive people on your guild's rosters. It's V1, V2, V3, V4.

There is an insurmountable amount of evidence that Vet Ranks and the system tied to them are overwhelmingly unpopular.

And it's all starting again with the new B2P crowd.

And it will start once again with the console crowd.

Bad design is bad design.

The people that remain playing do so despite their distaste for Vet Ranks because they like the game and recognize it's potential.