Will you please complete the VR level removal / conversion to champion system by May (part 1)

NewBlacksmurf

@ZOS
I'm asking officially for your response on if you will start the conversion of VR levels to champion levels by May?

I do realize during a live Twitch feed it was suggested that VR levels won't be removed before June. OK fine but that wasn't exactly clear on what the statement meant.

Because you've already established a champion level to VR level conversion based on exp I'm hoping the visual representation of the per character VR level can be changed to champion levels. To clarify....

Today VR1 seems to represent champion levels 1-8 but in your conversion it was approx 5 champion levels per 1 VR level for a max of 70.
The end result would ensure that every character and item that uses a VR representation, it converts so that there is still a min champion level required for certain items.

Ie: an account with a VR1 and VR1 items would need to be champion level 1-5 to use those items.
An account with a VR 4-14 would tend to be champion level 20 - 70 respective to the 1-5 conversion. If you'd rather use the 1-8 conversion that may cause problems but do what you wish....


Now all level 50 characters would be the champion level of the account but still be required to obtain items and gear to be effective.

The NPC characters that have a VR level can simply stay OR have a numeric representation as ZOS sees fit.


The goal of this is to take a small step towards completing the VR removal.
This is only a step towards then end and does not address any imbalance situations BUT at least it gets the PC version to a state of using the champion system and eliminating the VR character representation that seems to be a big sore spot to some based on the per character grind required.

NOW this should allow more to play a little more freely until further work is done.

Please strongly consider this so that the June console release is not stuck with the VR system.

Thanks



[Moderator Note: Title edited per our rules on Names in Thread Titles.]

Lord_Bidr

I second this. Champions System is going fine as it is, please proceed to remove the veteran ranks completely. I would like to play on my v1 nightblade and templar together with my v14 sorc and dragonknight, but the thought of having to grind those up to v14 in order to do anything meaningful is a turnoff.

Veteran Ranks should be removed at the soonest.

Artemiisia

its not going to happen, why:

1. they havent spoken about the last stage in months
2. the earning of champion points start first at vr1
3. with so many gear between vr1 - vr14 in the game it would be a pain to change
4. the vr14 levels are released in the consuls versions
5. that means 3 places to remove it and 3 times the workload

Give it up

JD2013

Won't be gone until X amount of time after the console release.

But there again I do have a question about this. Why do people so badly want them gone?

You'll still be going through gold and silver. Just without veteran levels.

What is an MMO without progression? If everyone is at level 50, aside from champion points, what is the point of going through new content (as it won't be a progression)

Without new levels to attain, except champion points everyone will be the same, and even they have a cap.

jcasini222ub17_ESO

wouldnt the grind still be present for those who want vr to disappear if there are champ level requirements for armor, food, etc. ? As a vr1 will still be woefully less powerful than a vr14 even when converted. For a vr1 to be on par with a vr14 they would need to have the ability to equip vr14 gear.

I still never thought the vr system was inherently bad, its levels mmos have levels, making caldwell silver/gold mandatory i feel causes the most problems.

Once vr's are removed and a person dings 50 isnt the same exact grind, with the same exact mechanics in place? mandatory silver/gold, craglorn will be difficult at base 50, and pvp will be difficult at base 50 compared to whatever a converted vr14 50 would be.

GreySix

I refuse to play other factions' quests with a single character. It would be akin to my finishing a career in the US Army, then signing up for the Taliban for a career in their holy jihad again Western infidels.

Won't do it.

Will play alts instead, and hopefully that brain-dead idea will be firmly planted in the ground by the time I'm done with them.

NewBlacksmurf

Artemiisia wrote: »

its not going to happen, why:

1. they havent spoken about the last stage in months
2. the earning of champion points start first at vr1
3. with so many gear between vr1 - vr14 in the game it would be a pain to change
4. the vr14 levels are released in the consuls versions
5. that means 3 places to remove it and 3 times the workload

Give it up

Did you even read the points?
It's literally only UI changes and no extra work as the restrictions and limitations stay. It just removes the per character requirement to start VR exp over.

Why does this approach not work?

NewBlacksmurf

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

wouldnt the grind still be present for those who want vr to disappear if there are champ level requirements for armor, food, etc. ? As a vr1 will still be woefully less powerful than a vr14 even when converted. For a vr1 to be on par with a vr14 they would need to have the ability to equip vr14 gear.

I still never thought the vr system was inherently bad, its levels mmos have levels, making caldwell silver/gold mandatory i feel causes the most problems.

Once vr's are removed and a person dings 50 isnt the same exact grind, with the same exact mechanics in place? mandatory silver/gold, craglorn will be difficult at base 50, and pvp will be difficult at base 50 compared to whatever a converted vr14 50 would be.

Yes the grind could exists but now it's an account grind and not per character limited to VR level
The specific character would still need to gear up but I don't think that was ever on the table to change.

VR levels are bad because of how it limits each character.
Silver and gold quests are a problem by design too. If they made this step...maybe later they would open both sides of silver and gold questing zones so that people can choose to quest, or gather shards, explore or just skip around to play with friends.

If the VR was removed there would not be the same grind at all.
Ie: player dings 50. The account champion level stays applied so the new 50 can now buy gear from AH or from an alt and play with friends a lot sooner.

jcasini222ub17_ESO

Smurf you finally explained it in a way that made sense to me from an alt perspective. Thank you. I agree with that fully. For some reason i always forget champ points are account wide.

I feel when the 'scaled' content comes the requirement for silver and gold will go poof. Finally opening the freedom somewhat.

NewBlacksmurf

JD2013 wrote: »

Won't be gone until X amount of time after the console release.

But there again I do have a question about this. Why do people so badly want them gone?

You'll still be going through gold and silver. Just without veteran levels.

What is an MMO without progression? If everyone is at level 50, aside from champion points, what is the point of going through new content (as it won't be a progression)

Without new levels to attain, except champion points everyone will be the same, and even they have a cap.

Why do ppl want them gone?
Because champion levels are account based each character does not need to complete the silver and gold quests.

They can if they want but let's say you have a VR7 on one faction and a VR5 on another. If you've completed both silver quests you prob don't want to do the gold. This kinda makes the work of an account apply so that people are brought together to play sooner.

Also the grind doesn't exists because now you're progress is applied to all 50+ characters.
Why do people want them gone...because the implementation of champion points makes VR levels redundant. If we are to keep leveling then why call it a VR level. Just allow the champion level to take its place.

Silver and gold quests ?
They won't be required by each character but instead a player can pick n choose the spots they want to gain exp in so that the account achieves 70-100 champion levels which is like one VR14 But each character still needs gear and shards. It's just a step in the right direction.

What is an MMORPG without progression?
This isn't removing progression it's only removing restrictive progression and allowing more open progression.

Everyone will be the same?
How do you figure as the VR levels are making everyone the same. This opens up variations and will result in very different mixtures and builds.


This also opens up the trading, crafting communities to do commerce across more characters

JD2013

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Won't be gone until X amount of time after the console release.

But there again I do have a question about this. Why do people so badly want them gone?

You'll still be going through gold and silver. Just without veteran levels.

What is an MMO without progression? If everyone is at level 50, aside from champion points, what is the point of going through new content (as it won't be a progression)

Without new levels to attain, except champion points everyone will be the same, and even they have a cap.

Why do ppl want them gone?
Because champion levels are account based each character does not need to complete the silver and gold quests.

They can if they want but let's say you have a VR7 on one faction and a VR5 on another. If you've completed both silver quests you prob don't want to do the gold. This kinda makes the work of an account apply so that people are brought together to play sooner.

Also the grind doesn't exists because now you're progress is applied to all 50+ characters.
Why do people want them gone...because the implementation of champion points makes VR levels redundant. If we are to keep leveling then why call it a VR level. Just allow the champion level to take its place.

Silver and gold quests ?
They won't be required by each character but instead a player can pick n choose the spots they want to gain exp in so that the account achieves 70-100 champion levels which is like one VR14 But each character still needs gear and shards. It's just a step in the right direction.

What is an MMORPG without progression?
This isn't removing progression it's only removing restrictive progression and allowing more open progression.

Everyone will be the same?
How do you figure as the VR levels are making everyone the same. This opens up variations and will result in very different mixtures and builds.


This also opens up the trading, crafting communities to do commerce across more characters

I'm sorry, but I'm personally not sold on player scaled content being the future of the game.

Zenimax have already stated that they see level gated content as not happening anymore, and that to me is not a good thing.

Most MMORPG's, including the wildly successful WoW have level gated content. It gives players something to strive for. Something to work towards rather than going anywhere you like. That to me smacks far too much of catering even further to the single player crowd.

In no way am I an MMO elitist or a hardcore MMO player. But this is an MMO. It has precious few mechanics and MMO mechanics as it is. Most ES titles have not had that go anywhere without much fear of dying. Look at Morrowind. Go to the wrong area too early and things will kill you dead.

I look forward to new content but the idea of players being scaled to be able to do the content irrespective of their level seems lazy.

wraith808

There's literally only one section that's level restricted after you get to VR1- that's Cadwell's Gold. I agree that even that area shouldn't be level restricted after you get to VR levels. But other than that one complaint, I don't get what the big deal is.

NewBlacksmurf

wraith808 wrote: »

There's literally only one section that's level restricted after you get to VR1- that's Cadwell's Gold. I agree that even that area shouldn't be level restricted after you get to VR levels. But other than that one complaint, I don't get what the big deal is.

There are a ton of VR level restricted areas that require each character to gain VR levels independently.
Silver quests, gold quests, trials, Craglorn, Cyrodil.

NewBlacksmurf

JD2013 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Won't be gone until X amount of time after the console release.

But there again I do have a question about this. Why do people so badly want them gone?

You'll still be going through gold and silver. Just without veteran levels.

What is an MMO without progression? If everyone is at level 50, aside from champion points, what is the point of going through new content (as it won't be a progression)

Without new levels to attain, except champion points everyone will be the same, and even they have a cap.

Why do ppl want them gone?
Because champion levels are account based each character does not need to complete the silver and gold quests.

They can if they want but let's say you have a VR7 on one faction and a VR5 on another. If you've completed both silver quests you prob don't want to do the gold. This kinda makes the work of an account apply so that people are brought together to play sooner.

Also the grind doesn't exists because now you're progress is applied to all 50+ characters.
Why do people want them gone...because the implementation of champion points makes VR levels redundant. If we are to keep leveling then why call it a VR level. Just allow the champion level to take its place.

Silver and gold quests ?
They won't be required by each character but instead a player can pick n choose the spots they want to gain exp in so that the account achieves 70-100 champion levels which is like one VR14 But each character still needs gear and shards. It's just a step in the right direction.

What is an MMORPG without progression?
This isn't removing progression it's only removing restrictive progression and allowing more open progression.

Everyone will be the same?
How do you figure as the VR levels are making everyone the same. This opens up variations and will result in very different mixtures and builds.


This also opens up the trading, crafting communities to do commerce across more characters

I'm sorry, but I'm personally not sold on player scaled content being the future of the game.

Zenimax have already stated that they see level gated content as not happening anymore, and that to me is not a good thing.

Most MMORPG's, including the wildly successful WoW have level gated content. It gives players something to strive for. Something to work towards rather than going anywhere you like. That to me smacks far too much of catering even further to the single player crowd.

In no way am I an MMO elitist or a hardcore MMO player. But this is an MMO. It has precious few mechanics and MMO mechanics as it is. Most ES titles have not had that go anywhere without much fear of dying. Look at Morrowind. Go to the wrong area too early and things will kill you dead.

I look forward to new content but the idea of players being scaled to be able to do the content irrespective of their level seems lazy.

None of this is suggesting player scaled content.
It's only removing a VR level designation that has absolutely no value other than limiting a single character.

ZOS's DLC that is suggested to be player level scaled is a bad idea to me but this posts had nothing to do with those topics in my opinion.

JD2013

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Won't be gone until X amount of time after the console release.

But there again I do have a question about this. Why do people so badly want them gone?

You'll still be going through gold and silver. Just without veteran levels.

What is an MMO without progression? If everyone is at level 50, aside from champion points, what is the point of going through new content (as it won't be a progression)

Without new levels to attain, except champion points everyone will be the same, and even they have a cap.

Why do ppl want them gone?
Because champion levels are account based each character does not need to complete the silver and gold quests.

They can if they want but let's say you have a VR7 on one faction and a VR5 on another. If you've completed both silver quests you prob don't want to do the gold. This kinda makes the work of an account apply so that people are brought together to play sooner.

Also the grind doesn't exists because now you're progress is applied to all 50+ characters.
Why do people want them gone...because the implementation of champion points makes VR levels redundant. If we are to keep leveling then why call it a VR level. Just allow the champion level to take its place.

Silver and gold quests ?
They won't be required by each character but instead a player can pick n choose the spots they want to gain exp in so that the account achieves 70-100 champion levels which is like one VR14 But each character still needs gear and shards. It's just a step in the right direction.

What is an MMORPG without progression?
This isn't removing progression it's only removing restrictive progression and allowing more open progression.

Everyone will be the same?
How do you figure as the VR levels are making everyone the same. This opens up variations and will result in very different mixtures and builds.


This also opens up the trading, crafting communities to do commerce across more characters

I'm sorry, but I'm personally not sold on player scaled content being the future of the game.

Zenimax have already stated that they see level gated content as not happening anymore, and that to me is not a good thing.

Most MMORPG's, including the wildly successful WoW have level gated content. It gives players something to strive for. Something to work towards rather than going anywhere you like. That to me smacks far too much of catering even further to the single player crowd.

In no way am I an MMO elitist or a hardcore MMO player. But this is an MMO. It has precious few mechanics and MMO mechanics as it is. Most ES titles have not had that go anywhere without much fear of dying. Look at Morrowind. Go to the wrong area too early and things will kill you dead.

I look forward to new content but the idea of players being scaled to be able to do the content irrespective of their level seems lazy.

None of this is suggesting player scaled content.
It's only removing a VR level designation that has absolutely no value other than limiting a single character.

ZOS's DLC that is suggested to be player level scaled is a bad idea to me but this posts had nothing to do with those topics in my opinion.

It's Basically the same thing. Everyone being level 50, all content being level 50, no progression.

Romo

JD2013 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Won't be gone until X amount of time after the console release.

But there again I do have a question about this. Why do people so badly want them gone?

You'll still be going through gold and silver. Just without veteran levels.

What is an MMO without progression? If everyone is at level 50, aside from champion points, what is the point of going through new content (as it won't be a progression)

Without new levels to attain, except champion points everyone will be the same, and even they have a cap.

Why do ppl want them gone?
Because champion levels are account based each character does not need to complete the silver and gold quests.

They can if they want but let's say you have a VR7 on one faction and a VR5 on another. If you've completed both silver quests you prob don't want to do the gold. This kinda makes the work of an account apply so that people are brought together to play sooner.

Also the grind doesn't exists because now you're progress is applied to all 50+ characters.
Why do people want them gone...because the implementation of champion points makes VR levels redundant. If we are to keep leveling then why call it a VR level. Just allow the champion level to take its place.

Silver and gold quests ?
They won't be required by each character but instead a player can pick n choose the spots they want to gain exp in so that the account achieves 70-100 champion levels which is like one VR14 But each character still needs gear and shards. It's just a step in the right direction.

What is an MMORPG without progression?
This isn't removing progression it's only removing restrictive progression and allowing more open progression.

Everyone will be the same?
How do you figure as the VR levels are making everyone the same. This opens up variations and will result in very different mixtures and builds.


This also opens up the trading, crafting communities to do commerce across more characters

I'm sorry, but I'm personally not sold on player scaled content being the future of the game.

Zenimax have already stated that they see level gated content as not happening anymore, and that to me is not a good thing.

Most MMORPG's, including the wildly successful WoW have level gated content. It gives players something to strive for. Something to work towards rather than going anywhere you like. That to me smacks far too much of catering even further to the single player crowd.

In no way am I an MMO elitist or a hardcore MMO player. But this is an MMO. It has precious few mechanics and MMO mechanics as it is. Most ES titles have not had that go anywhere without much fear of dying. Look at Morrowind. Go to the wrong area too early and things will kill you dead.

I look forward to new content but the idea of players being scaled to be able to do the content irrespective of their level seems lazy.

None of this is suggesting player scaled content.
It's only removing a VR level designation that has absolutely no value other than limiting a single character.

ZOS's DLC that is suggested to be player level scaled is a bad idea to me but this posts had nothing to do with those topics in my opinion.

It's Basically the same thing. Everyone being level 50, all content being level 50, no progression.

Yep, sounds good to me. Sooner the better.

stimpy986b14_ESO

Did they actually confirm that gear/pots/etc would have a champ point requirement?

Natjur

They said they want to remove the vet levels, but they do not have a clear plan yet on how to deal with the high level armor, food, potions and end game instances.

So maybe we can give some ideas.
What do you expect to happen to V14 gear?
(1) Nerfed down to L50\V1 and therefore lose lots of stats?
(2) Keep the stats but need X CP points before you can wear it?

What about vet dungeons and trials? If everyone is L50, how will end game stuff be harder?
Doing a Vet dugn scaled to V1 with four V1 toons is a lot easier then doing a Vet dugn scaled to V14 with four V14 toons.

With everything at L50, will we have more options when we zone in that scale the instances harder and harder? Or will it always be a cake walk?

The easy option is just make L70 the new max level, and convert V14 players to level 63

TequilaFire

Some will be surprised that those that were V14 then convert to 50 will still have more skill points even if ZOS actually does this.

Alphashado

wraith808 wrote: »

There's literally only one section that's level restricted after you get to VR1- that's Cadwell's Gold. I agree that even that area shouldn't be level restricted after you get to VR levels. But other than that one complaint, I don't get what the big deal is.

The big deal is how long it takes each character to become relevant for endgame content. Trials, DSA, pvp, etc. it's basically v12 or stay home.

People want to be able to join friends or level alts up to join endgame content w/o being forced to trudge through a tediously long grind that doesn't even make sense to begin with because it's nothing more than a cheap, rehashed generic method of creating 130 more mandatory levels of progression through opposing factions content after you beat the main story.

Hope that clears things up.

Pausekey

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

its not going to happen, why:

1. they havent spoken about the last stage in months
2. the earning of champion points start first at vr1
3. with so many gear between vr1 - vr14 in the game it would be a pain to change
4. the vr14 levels are released in the consuls versions
5. that means 3 places to remove it and 3 times the workload

Give it up

Did you even read the points?
It's literally only UI changes and no extra work as the restrictions and limitations stay. It just removes the per character requirement to start VR exp over.

Why does this approach not work?

So if I rolled a new character, and had a ton of CP, as soon as I hit 50 they would be VR14 equivalent? Or did I miss something in how your idea had the conversion take place?

If so this would negate the need to actually work on a character past level 50, they would immediately have access to the best gear and all my stockpile of CP.

Deheart

I may be wrong, but didn't they officially announce that they won't be removing veteran ranks?

NewBlacksmurf

JD2013 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Won't be gone until X amount of time after the console release.

But there again I do have a question about this. Why do people so badly want them gone?

You'll still be going through gold and silver. Just without veteran levels.

What is an MMO without progression? If everyone is at level 50, aside from champion points, what is the point of going through new content (as it won't be a progression)

Without new levels to attain, except champion points everyone will be the same, and even they have a cap.

Why do ppl want them gone?
Because champion levels are account based each character does not need to complete the silver and gold quests.

They can if they want but let's say you have a VR7 on one faction and a VR5 on another. If you've completed both silver quests you prob don't want to do the gold. This kinda makes the work of an account apply so that people are brought together to play sooner.

Also the grind doesn't exists because now you're progress is applied to all 50+ characters.
Why do people want them gone...because the implementation of champion points makes VR levels redundant. If we are to keep leveling then why call it a VR level. Just allow the champion level to take its place.

Silver and gold quests ?
They won't be required by each character but instead a player can pick n choose the spots they want to gain exp in so that the account achieves 70-100 champion levels which is like one VR14 But each character still needs gear and shards. It's just a step in the right direction.

What is an MMORPG without progression?
This isn't removing progression it's only removing restrictive progression and allowing more open progression.

Everyone will be the same?
How do you figure as the VR levels are making everyone the same. This opens up variations and will result in very different mixtures and builds.


This also opens up the trading, crafting communities to do commerce across more characters

I'm sorry, but I'm personally not sold on player scaled content being the future of the game.

Zenimax have already stated that they see level gated content as not happening anymore, and that to me is not a good thing.

Most MMORPG's, including the wildly successful WoW have level gated content. It gives players something to strive for. Something to work towards rather than going anywhere you like. That to me smacks far too much of catering even further to the single player crowd.

In no way am I an MMO elitist or a hardcore MMO player. But this is an MMO. It has precious few mechanics and MMO mechanics as it is. Most ES titles have not had that go anywhere without much fear of dying. Look at Morrowind. Go to the wrong area too early and things will kill you dead.

I look forward to new content but the idea of players being scaled to be able to do the content irrespective of their level seems lazy.

None of this is suggesting player scaled content.
It's only removing a VR level designation that has absolutely no value other than limiting a single character.

ZOS's DLC that is suggested to be player level scaled is a bad idea to me but this posts had nothing to do with those topics in my opinion.

It's Basically the same thing. Everyone being level 50, all content being level 50, no progression.

It's not the same in any way shape or form.
No one will be level 50, they will be champion level "x" instead of champion level "x" limited to content by VR level.
Why wouldn't you want your alts able to play with others limited only by a VR level.

NewBlacksmurf

Pausekey wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

its not going to happen, why:

1. they havent spoken about the last stage in months
2. the earning of champion points start first at vr1
3. with so many gear between vr1 - vr14 in the game it would be a pain to change
4. the vr14 levels are released in the consuls versions
5. that means 3 places to remove it and 3 times the workload

Give it up

Did you even read the points?
It's literally only UI changes and no extra work as the restrictions and limitations stay. It just removes the per character requirement to start VR exp over.

Why does this approach not work?

So if I rolled a new character, and had a ton of CP, as soon as I hit 50 they would be VR14 equivalent? Or did I miss something in how your idea had the conversion take place?

If so this would negate the need to actually work on a character past level 50, they would immediately have access to the best gear and all my stockpile of CP.

You would be at whatever champion level you are today. You wouldn't be a VR 14 or whatever as you still need gear and skills points + shards. This just remives the VR limitation to content and progression

NewBlacksmurf

Natjur wrote: »

They said they want to remove the vet levels, but they do not have a clear plan yet on how to deal with the high level armor, food, potions and end game instances.

So maybe we can give some ideas.
What do you expect to happen to V14 gear?
(1) Nerfed down to L50\V1 and therefore lose lots of stats?
(2) Keep the stats but need X CP points before you can wear it?

What about vet dungeons and trials? If everyone is L50, how will end game stuff be harder?
Doing a Vet dugn scaled to V1 with four V1 toons is a lot easier then doing a Vet dugn scaled to V14 with four V14 toons.

With everything at L50, will we have more options when we zone in that scale the instances harder and harder? Or will it always be a cake walk?

The easy option is just make L70 the new max level, and convert V14 players to level 63

The gear and items will convert to champion level requirements as mentioned. Problem solved.
Everyone is not level 50, they use their champion level instead just as it does today
Vet dungeon scaling doesn't change with this idea at this phase/step.
You can't make everything a higher character level......that's the issue now because VR levels do not follow character levels. If they raised character levels then there was no purpose in introducing champion levels. Because a character levels of a VR14 is approx 150-200 character levels, raising the max level would further cause issues.

The best approach is to convert what exists into their new system.
Step 1 Is removing the character VR and later deciding what to do with npc's. I think the NPC's can follow the champion level model too but each NPC would have their own rank

NewBlacksmurf

Hey everyone, this has nothing to do with dropping anyone to level 50.
Just as it works today you ding 50, and then instead of the next exp going to VR1, it would label you as champion level "x" and continue to boost account exp as the champion system does today.

Raising the character levels isn't a part of the conversion as ZOS isn't looking at raising the max character level because VR is much higher than 50. The goal is to finish the conversion they started.

In essence a VR1 = champ levels 1-5
VR2 = champ levels 6-10
VR3 = champ levels 11-15
......
VR14 = champ levels 70+

The gear and item requirements would also follow these champion levels.
The NPC could respectively follow this conversion too so it's easy to notice progression and content difficulty.

This is a simplistic change towards ZOS's VR removal.

NewBlacksmurf

Deheart wrote: »

I may be wrong, but didn't they officially announce that they won't be removing veteran ranks?

No they did not. They suggested that they are focusing on console and will likely not remove them until after console release. I'm just offering a cosmetic conversion question to them that doesn't require any reworking or changes. Just UI changes and something that can be patched and not be game breaking or confusing

Aerieth

I'm fairly sure I read / heard it somewhere, that when they remove the Veteran Ranks, they'll keep the ranks in gear and items.
The level cap would remain the same, but more and more powerful gear would be made available through new and harder dungeons and other content (DLC). Sorry that I can't provide a source for this information.

In theory, this would remove the need to grind those levels after getting to 50, but would still keep the progression in the game through gear. You need X amount of stats to be able to beat the dungeon Y, so you must first go beat the easier dungeon Z to get the X amount of stats etc. Not sure if that's the way they want to handle gear progression, but that's the system used in most of the commonly known MMOs.

But I agree on the point that Veteran Levels need to go as fast as possible. I want to test out the other classes and races, but the grind needed - for each new character - at the moment is just too much.

wraith808

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

There's literally only one section that's level restricted after you get to VR1- that's Cadwell's Gold. I agree that even that area shouldn't be level restricted after you get to VR levels. But other than that one complaint, I don't get what the big deal is.

There are a ton of VR level restricted areas that require each character to gain VR levels independently.
Silver quests, gold quests, trials, Craglorn, Cyrodil.

Silver... you only have to get to 50. Trials... you just have to get a group. As long as you're 50, you can do those also. Cyrodiil - level 10.

The only area that removing VRs as a gate would change is Gold Quests.

The problem, more than the VRs, is that the higher end content is elite only, i.e. they're DPS and mechanics checks, and you can't enjoy the challenge as much as you have to be utterly prepared for the challenge, which is where the lockouts come in- from the nature of how they are created and the fact that trial and error is not a part of it, because the cost of errors is too high.

I did DSA as a VR1. As a VR1 I also did (actually tanked) Vet Fungal Grotto, VR5 mobs and all. It took a while... a long while, but we were able to down it. And it was an achievement to do so. On the higher level trials, there is not that allowance for figuring things out... you have to already know everything at this point, or the cost is too high. The ones that ran it originally- the elite- paid this cost, and now everyone just follows their lead, and with their builds and it's really just a DPS check rather than a dungeon to be explored.

That's what needs to be addressed, and the VR levels have little to nothing to do with that, IMO.

wraith808

Alphashado wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

There's literally only one section that's level restricted after you get to VR1- that's Cadwell's Gold. I agree that even that area shouldn't be level restricted after you get to VR levels. But other than that one complaint, I don't get what the big deal is.

The big deal is how long it takes each character to become relevant for endgame content. Trials, DSA, pvp, etc. it's basically v12 or stay home.

People want to be able to join friends or level alts up to join endgame content w/o being forced to trudge through a tediously long grind that doesn't even make sense to begin with because it's nothing more than a cheap, rehashed generic method of creating 130 more mandatory levels of progression through opposing factions content after you beat the main story.

Hope that clears things up.

That's a function of your friends and your guild at that point more than the game itself. And no matter what, there will be a separation of power level, whether it's level, VR, or champion points- it doesn't matter what you call it, it will still be there, just by a different name. And it's necessary for continued challenge- that's just the nature of the game.

Therefore, all I'm saying, is remove the level gate for attempting, and make the end game something other than a DPS check. Other games have successfully released content that is not just a DPS check, but that requires skill and exploration- but these trials that are based on doing the right thing at the right time rather than exploration with a like minded group of individuals through content are not that. And I'm not saying that there's not a place for them- but those are meant for the elite, and that's fine. We just need content that is meant for the masses also.

Horrum

Yes please. As someone with a V14 character I totally support this. It needs to go for so many reasons. I have 3 friends who just started this game, one is V2, and he is getting annoyed as the vet level is hardly moving while playing pvp. I fear all 3 will give up eventually.