Will you please complete the VR level removal / conversion to champion system by May (part 1)

Cinder82

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Anoteros

Cinder82 wrote: »

iv got 5 vr14 char's if they remove my vr levels i want al my money back!!!!! i have paid to play this game its my work and money flushed away.. for what??? because people are lazy. just stay at vr14. and go with the champ system. just raise xp gain for all and we are done! im getting more cp and the newbs get to vr14 faster.


ill tel you this zos there will be a massive uproar if you take all our gear and work away!!


make new content that is rewarding!!!!!!!!!!!!! more xp please.

You like to grind and waste your time that way, others want to enjoy content and play with friends.
Not hard to see which one I and many others prefer.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Anoteros wrote: »

Cinder82 wrote: »

iv got 5 vr14 char's if they remove my vr levels i want al my money back!!!!! i have paid to play this game its my work and money flushed away.. for what??? because people are lazy. just stay at vr14. and go with the champ system. just raise xp gain for all and we are done! im getting more cp and the newbs get to vr14 faster.


ill tel you this zos there will be a massive uproar if you take all our gear and work away!!


make new content that is rewarding!!!!!!!!!!!!! more xp please.

You like to grind and waste your time that way, others want to enjoy content and play with friends.
Not hard to see which one I and many others prefer.

What is stopping you from playing with your friends? Vet ranks arent solo.

Endurance

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Endurance wrote: »

they dont need to remove veteran levels, they need to add more. ALSO they need to properly scale stats according to that level as well as equipment

- A veteran rank 1 would probably have about 11k ~ 12k HP/MP/STA.. veteran rank 14's should have around 60k~75k HP/MP/STA

- yes monsters are easy.. so scale that too! make it so its harder and harder to the point where its not even possible to solo anymore

Explain exactly why they need to add more VR levels vs using the champion system and altering the affects of champion skills?

- champion system isnt making you able to equip better armors and weapons, and the bonuses from it are quite tiny even at high levels

- veteran content provides a challenge, also it gives people the opportunity to venture out into the other faction maps, and hundreds of more quests!

- exclusive armor and weapon sets only for certain veteran levels

really whats the point of removing veteran levels? the 1-50 grind takes couple hours if there was nothing to do after that then everyones gonna quit the game

Endurance

its gotta be the dumbest idea to ding a character 1~50 and right away it inherits all of the account wide champion points from previous characters.. naw if they remove veteran ranks they will have to make it so champion points are individual per character and not account wide.. seems some people only want it gone to avoid grinding so in other words they're lazy

wraith808

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I dont see the problem. I like the fact as do a lot of people playing the game that we can use our same character for all three factions quests.

Agreed, and I like the idea. But in practice... it's a slog. It's a lot of content, which is a good thing... but it can also be a bad thing when the only way to level is questing through a seemingly infinite chain, or grinding. They need to make it so that you get comparable XP in multiple different ways. I'm at Bangkorai right now for Gold, and I'm sort of burned out on story. If I could switch it up and do something that's not going to burn me out more like grinding, I'd take a break and do that. But Cyrodiil- where I'd like to level- doesn't give comparable XP. It's better now, but better is relative. They should have viable content outside of Caldwell's, and for all 4 (non-Caldwell's, Caldwell's, PvP, and Grinding) the XP per hour should be comparable, if not equal.

NewBlacksmurf

Endurance wrote: »

its gotta be the dumbest idea to ding a character 1~50 and right away it inherits all of the account wide champion points from previous characters.. naw if they remove veteran ranks they will have to make it so champion points are individual per character and not account wide.. seems some people only want it gone to avoid grinding so in other words they're lazy

That's your opinion however there are quite a few successful examples today that work.
Also, your explanation suggests that you may not understand

Removing VR levels does not in any way give an alt character the work of another. The skills, shards, gear, quests progression, dungeons, trials and etc. do not go to any alts.

ZOS converted up to 70 points of VR exp into the champion system per their direction to later remove the VR levels only.
Not remove VR gear, not to remove access to silver and gold requests, shards and skills and the base character skill points.

I don't think you understand....

Anvos

Honestly another reason I'm against this proposal other than seeing it as a non-issue that could easily break more than it fixes is that we need new content like Wrothgar, Imperial City, the remaining vet dungeons, and the rouge type guilds (with their story lines) far more than redoing every aspect of post 50 progression and content.

Wrothgar gives us single player endgame zone where you don't need a group for dailies and likely new trials.

Imperial City gives us end game objective of pvp and something for people who aren't likely to ever become emp and likely gives 2 factions (looking at you AD and DC) a reason not to gang up on 1 without consequences more than an end campaign reward.

Mikoto

Anvos wrote: »

Honestly another reason I'm against this proposal other than seeing it as a non-issue that could easily break more than it fixes is that we need new content like Wrothgar, Imperial City, the remaining vet dungeons, and the rouge type guilds (with their story lines) far more than redoing every aspect of post 50 progression and content.

Wrothgar gives us single player endgame zone where you don't need a group for dailies and likely new trials.

Imperial City gives us end game objective of pvp and something for people who aren't likely to ever become emp and likely gives 2 factions (looking at you AD and DC) a reason not to gang up on 1 without consequences more than an end campaign reward.

I think that might be the plan hopefully. Imperial city tied in with vr removal maybe phase 2 of justice and wrothgar a few months after. From quake con they said that each dlc will come with a season of gear so you go on a gear chase and the older ones will be easier to obtain so those that are behind can catch up to at least the season before.

AngryNord

Considering that they've saiid that new content will scale, we can be pretty certain that vet ranks are staying. And AFAIK it's already been said that "phase 2" of the justice system will never be.

6point6b16_ESO

Its more than just reskinning the UI, theres character attributepoints for every vr level. Skillpoints from Silver and Gold storyline quests.

Pausekey

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Endurance wrote: »

its gotta be the dumbest idea to ding a character 1~50 and right away it inherits all of the account wide champion points from previous characters.. naw if they remove veteran ranks they will have to make it so champion points are individual per character and not account wide.. seems some people only want it gone to avoid grinding so in other words they're lazy

That's your opinion however there are quite a few successful examples today that work.
Also, your explanation suggests that you may not understand

Removing VR levels does not in any way give an alt character the work of another. The skills, shards, gear, quests progression, dungeons, trials and etc. do not go to any alts.

ZOS converted up to 70 points of VR exp into the champion system per their direction to later remove the VR levels only.
Not remove VR gear, not to remove access to silver and gold requests, shards and skills and the base character skill points.

I don't think you understand....

No of course the new character wouldn't get all that. We get that, that is how the game currently works. But what would happen is somehow who grinds 1-50, gets a couple extra shards for skills, is suddenly the strength of a VR14. I have a DK i powered through 1-50. I have two weapon lines maxed, and only put the skill points in what I want. They are a half complete character, but under your system they could go out and PvP or start Trials and be as good as a character with a couple weeks play time.

The issue here isn't for people's mains. Many of us have fully fleshed out mains. The problem is that under your suggested system any alts I roll will be VR14 strength within 3-4 days of played time.

Xjcon

Keep Vet Ranks. Don't listen to the people who are to lazy to work through all the content. I personally don't want the level cap to be a few days worth of grinding and done. I don't see how that would benefit this game one bit.

Anilahation

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

It shouldn't be removed they should just work like light levels in Destiny.


equipping a full set of vr14 armor makes you vr14.

removing it makes you vr1.

the reason for this is so ZOS doesn't need to waste time with a stat squish like WoW did.

Current cap is vr14, they add wrothgar that has vr15 gear and vr15 mats.

I have to disagree. IF they did this a lot of people would quit.

elaborate.

or should DLC's not offer anything and just simply new zones to explore?

Tavore1138

There still seems to be this illogical belief that just removing the letters VR from the game is some glorious panacea for all ills.

It would not be.

You would still have to grind for CP.
You would still have to update gear.
You would still need to do the Cadwell content.

On the plus side the OP could stop recreating this thread every few days so that alone could be worth the thousands of hours of dev time and months of fallout from the inevitable bugs following such complex changes....

Grapdjan

An interminable solo experience over several million experience points leads to a fall in subs, less people to play with, less dev money, ultimately a worse gaming experience.

VR levels do nothing except split the community in a very real way as people hit level 50 and then cannot just go do dungeons with their mates.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Bashing & Slanderous Comments]

NewBlacksmurf

Grapdjan wrote: »

An interminable solo experience over several million experience points leads to a fall in subs, less people to play with, less dev money, ultimately a worse gaming experience.

VR levels do nothing except split the community in a very real way as people hit level 50 and then cannot just go do dungeons with their mates.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Exactly

NewBlacksmurf

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

It shouldn't be removed they should just work like light levels in Destiny.


equipping a full set of vr14 armor makes you vr14.

removing it makes you vr1.

the reason for this is so ZOS doesn't need to waste time with a stat squish like WoW did.

Current cap is vr14, they add wrothgar that has vr15 gear and vr15 mats.

I have to disagree. IF they did this a lot of people would quit.

elaborate.

or should DLC's not offer anything and just simply new zones to explore?

Gear in destiny is based off a light level. Other than the gear the character is level 20.
In order to have a similar change in ESO, in addition to the work of removing VR, they would have to somehow remove the player stats too.

Then every piece of gear would have to be made to give those stats back as everyone doesn't place the stats in the same way. Also taking something someone who earned it isn't cool.

Horrum

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Endurance wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

For example would you rather have vet ranks removed or the imperial city added? Personally Ill take imperial city.

I'd rather have vet levels removed. Content doesn't fix the VR problem that has existed since closed BETA. Now that cp was rolled out, it's more of a thorn in the side.

Content based on how ZOS talks about it will be paid DLC that scales with character level. So basically people will hit 50 and then opt to start paid DLC so go ahead and remove the VR levels so that people aren't phased out of playing with each other even more.

What VR problem is it that needs fixing?

Fair question:
When playing a MMORPG the top level after the main quest completion should begin to funnel characters and players of those characters towards their endgame desires. Some prefer PvP, some prefer PvE and other want a mix of both.

Today with the VR levels, what happens instead is that after playing with others at your level up until level 50, your later seperated from many post 50 characters. I'm not talking about the need of each character to upgrade their gear or any other work to be endgame viable but I'm specifically talking about how the game continues to lengthen the seperation from a new 50/VR1 to the viable endgame level of today's VR11-VR12.

It begins with the game having a much lower VR max level that is now a couple of VR levels higher and one that continues to be raised. Also considering the exp rate of change and the nerfs of exp spots. For a long time players were unable to gain VR exp other than jumping into VR content which is silly based on how the game is set up.

The problem is that ZOS is intentionally lengthening the amount of time, the amount of exp and the number of efficient ways and places a character can progress to be viable at the end game content whether that is PvE or PvP.

So in asking ZOS if they will start removing VR soon, it's addressing the many posts that gripe about not being able to play with others or being stuck at certain parts of VR content. It addresses the nerfs to exp and the clarification of where the champion level system is going.

The VR levels are a big problem and have not always been as big of a problem but as months pass, ZOS is intentionally slowing down vertical progression to specific characters.

When the game starts allowing players to progress through the system that ZOS is forcing us to level in, and also remove the system that they are making it very hard to progress in, the game will be better.

That's thr problem with VR that will not be a problem once VR is removed.

Then content makes sense because it can be added in a way that also allows players to play with others and enjoy the game vs grinding for a VR level only to be allowed to participate in other content.

If this were gear only...no problem cause you would gain gear by playing. This is adding weeks or months worth of leveling per character just to get to a point to where you can start playing with others again.

*lots of edits and typos*

i dont see the players at diablo 3 complaining.. they finish easy and normal, then jump right into hard mode, nightmare, and inferno.. oh and its set up pretty much the same way, you fight the same monsters over and over with increased stats and HP

That's not how Diablo 3 works at all
D3 has a 1-70 character level and then at 70 the account earns paragon levels. Paragon skills are accessible just like champion points in ESO.

Diablo doesn't force people to play through each mode but it offers different difficulties at any time. It even allows you to skip quests and play with a friend at any level.

The way ESO is today would be like adding 150 more levels per character after level 70 before any character could access the rifts or key wardens and bounty modes.

Yep you hit the nail on the head.

Endurance

Grapdjan wrote: »

An interminable solo experience over several million experience points leads to a fall in subs, less people to play with, less dev money, ultimately a worse gaming experience.

VR levels do nothing except split the community in a very real way as people hit level 50 and then cannot just go do dungeons with their mates.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

you really think people are gonna stick around to continue playing this game once they remove veteran ranks? NO pvp is gonna be overflowed with new characters that have the power of v14's with only 24 hours of gameplay, this is primarily what people want, they want a bunch of alts that can reach end game content ASAP without the need to do Silver and Gold, there is other ways to do that instead of removing the veteran ranks

- they can add veteran rank brackets to pvp so 1 ~ 3 could pvp, 4 ~ 6 can pvp, 7 ~ 9 can pvp, 10 ~ 14 can pvp, instead of throwing veterans of every level in pvp only for them to die off to the max lvled players and then they complain

- people hate doing cadwell silver and gold so much they can make it so if the first main character completed cadwell silver and gold, then new characters have the option to skip it

- veteran levels shouldnt be removed, it needs to be adjusted a lil bit and this stupid champion system doesnt make a proper replacement for it

Jaxsun

JD2013 wrote: »

Won't be gone until X amount of time after the console release.

But there again I do have a question about this. Why do people so badly want them gone?

You'll still be going through gold and silver. Just without veteran levels.

What is an MMO without progression? If everyone is at level 50, aside from champion points, what is the point of going through new content (as it won't be a progression)

Without new levels to attain, except champion points everyone will be the same, and even they have a cap.

I wan t them gone because of the XP needed to attain them. I have one vr 14 finished before the last XP Nerf. They need to Nerf it again so that the vr XP scales the same as 1-49.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Endurance wrote: »

its gotta be the dumbest idea to ding a character 1~50 and right away it inherits all of the account wide champion points from previous characters.. naw if they remove veteran ranks they will have to make it so champion points are individual per character and not account wide.. seems some people only want it gone to avoid grinding so in other words they're lazy

It's stupid a level 1 can spend the entire account's worth of CPs but can't earn a single one till it gets to 50.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Grapdjan wrote: »

An interminable solo experience over several million experience points leads to a fall in subs, less people to play with, less dev money, ultimately a worse gaming experience.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

What you fail to see is that a 1990s group-or-die forced-group-to-level game will keep even fewer players.

Right now the level cap is effectively VR10 for a large number of people since progress beyond that is forced-group and many of us don't want to have to 'group up' simply to gain levels: grouping should be about gearing, not leveling.

wraith808

AngryNord wrote: »

Considering that they've saiid that new content will scale, we can be pretty certain that vet ranks are staying. And AFAIK it's already been said that "phase 2" of the justice system will never be.

The first part... yes, I agree, good point. The second part? No, it hasn't been said, unless I didn't see the announcement. Link?

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

wraith808 wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

Considering that they've saiid that new content will scale, we can be pretty certain that vet ranks are staying. And AFAIK it's already been said that "phase 2" of the justice system will never be.

The first part... yes, I agree, good point. The second part? No, it hasn't been said, unless I didn't see the announcement. Link?

A developer said "when and if" part 2 is implemented. People like myself were a little worried because he said "if". Nothing official tho.

Rune_Relic

So those who don't want to get rid of Vet levels. Can I have all your CPs you were awarded for them ?

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Rune_Relic wrote: »

So those who don't want to get rid of Vet levels. Can I have all your CPs you were awarded for them ?

You have to earn CP just like everyone else. Nothing gets handed to anyone.

tallenn

Where did the information that Veteran Ranks were being removed come from? Is there a link to a ZOS post or blog? I seem to remember an update about a month ago, maybe a little more, about when it would supposedly happen, but I don't recall, exactly.

I'm not interested in getting caught up in the debate here, I'm just looking for information from ZOS itself on this issue. If you know of anything that's been said, a link would be much appreciated.

Anilahation

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

It shouldn't be removed they should just work like light levels in Destiny.


equipping a full set of vr14 armor makes you vr14.

removing it makes you vr1.

the reason for this is so ZOS doesn't need to waste time with a stat squish like WoW did.

Current cap is vr14, they add wrothgar that has vr15 gear and vr15 mats.

I have to disagree. IF they did this a lot of people would quit.

elaborate.

or should DLC's not offer anything and just simply new zones to explore?

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

It shouldn't be removed they should just work like light levels in Destiny.


equipping a full set of vr14 armor makes you vr14.

removing it makes you vr1.

the reason for this is so ZOS doesn't need to waste time with a stat squish like WoW did.

Current cap is vr14, they add wrothgar that has vr15 gear and vr15 mats.

I have to disagree. IF they did this a lot of people would quit.

elaborate.

or should DLC's not offer anything and just simply new zones to explore?

Gear in destiny is based off a light level. Other than the gear the character is level 20.
In order to have a similar change in ESO, in addition to the work of removing VR, they would have to somehow remove the player stats too.

Then every piece of gear would have to be made to give those stats back as everyone doesn't place the stats in the same way. Also taking something someone who earned it isn't cool.

not really a good counter argument since before VR ranks didn't give stats and only did to give a pseudo feel of progression.

If VR is removed they may simply just allow you to choose 14 attributes at level 50.

so if that is what happens then making the level VR gear you are determine your level makes perfect sense smsand would require less work from the devs.

oh a new dlc comes out, add mats so crafters can create next VR equipment and dlc drops next tier.

instead of multiple copies of level 50 armor where you are literally just confused why X piece is weaker then Y piece (invisible item levels)

this changes your veteran ranks into a non toxic gear score.

oh that guy is VR14 so he has a full set of vr14 armor.

Rune_Relic

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

So those who don't want to get rid of Vet levels. Can I have all your CPs you were awarded for them ?

You have to earn CP just like everyone else. Nothing gets handed to anyone.

So what was those 70 CP handed out for then ?
You know the 200,000xp per CP exchange system we had ?

Time to pay the debt.