Rise of the planet of the Sorcs

Sile

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sile wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sile wrote: »

47 points into Bastion, 62 points into Magicka, Inner Light, no Necropotence, no Pets, Power Surge active. I do believe the tooltip doesn't include the 33% increase on yourself either?

First off, you're not in Cyrodiil, you're in Rawl'kha.

Secondly, let's have have a look into the attributes & active buffs page shall we?

This is the DC Cyrodil gate, the addon just hasn't updated. Does Rawlka really have a DC banner in it, really? (Top right corner)

How the hell do I know what a DC Cyrodiil gate looks like, I'm AD. Now let's look at the attributes and buffs page.

I'll take a screen shot of my tooltip and attributes page and put them here for juxtaposition.

Rawl'kha is one of your main cities as AD, it doesn't look anything like the screenshot for starters.

Ezareth

frozywozy wrote: »

I fought a sorc today who agreed to test a build on purpose.

I am 1800 spell damage.

I was doing medium weaving destro fire attacks with Molten Armaments Molten whip + Engulfing Flame + Unstable Flame + Talons + Obsidian Shard.

He standed still just refreshing Hardened Ward / Healing Ward / Harness Magicka for 2minutes.

He had 18k hps, 26k magicka, 16k stamina wearing warlock / seducer with other ressource management perks.
His health never dropped under 100%.

This is where shield stacking becomes a problem. When you can get both high ressources management and defense at the same time. It should be one or the other. Ressources management should give you moderate but stable defense over time but you should never be able to resist a burst of damage without kitting it.

The problem is Harness Magicka is still bugged and is OP against magical attacks, especially when stacked with other shields.

Run a cost reduction build.

Stack 3 shields with Harness being the first.

You harness magicka will return magic on every hit on *any* of your shields and if you're wearing light armor and have a fair amount of cost reduction it actually *Returns* more magicka than it costs.

I've been able to do nothing (I.E. no offensive abilities only shield spam) against practically any players except pure physical damage players ad infinitum for the past year. Nothing has changed there and it is the magicka equivalent to the Shezilla the "Unkillable" stand and hold block build. It doesn't really prove anything or show that something is OP.

I fully support Harness Magicka returning magicka only when it is hit and not the shields surrounding it. Crushing shock spam on harness magicka will actually *Fill* your mana bar since each hit of CS counts as 3 hits and returns magicka 3 times so you can spam Harness against someone spamming crushing and sit at 100% magicka and health the whole time.

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

@ezareth you said above fear spam doesnt run you out of stam and you havent answered whether you die to nb 1v1 so at this point its obvious you are a sorc homer and we just disagree.

sorc has best burst dps in pvp
best escapbility
and best shield

thread has what almost 10k views? this isnt just me saying sorc is ridiculous right now

your response is to fear a sorc as a nb but you cant tell me a single nb youve died to 1v1. this instantly refutes your argument. instantly

its clear you are biased

Sorc doesn't have the best burst DPS in PvP.
We have the best escapability and in *some* situations the best shield.

Let me turn the tables on you.

Night blades have the best stealth capabilities
Night blades have the highest burst DPS potential
Night blades have the best CC in the game
Night blades have the best AoE tank in the game...

I could go on....but as you see none of that really means anything in isolation.

I've died several times to nightblades in 1 v 1. Vice (I think his name is) has absolutely butchered me a few times from stealth through my shields (some of these are in my soon to be released Owned Compilation video). Sypher Ali has killed me once or twice on his NB and Sabre Ali has killed me 2 or 3 times on his (All my fault since I made the mistake of pursuing them).

Does that prove *anything*? Nope.

frozywozy wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

I fought a sorc today who agreed to test a build on purpose.

I am 1800 spell damage.

I was doing medium weaving destro fire attacks with Molten Armaments Molten whip + Engulfing Flame + Unstable Flame + Talons + Obsidian Shard.

He standed still just refreshing Hardened Ward / Healing Ward / Harness Magicka for 2minutes.

He had 18k hps, 26k magicka, 16k stamina wearing warlock / seducer.
His health never dropped under 100%.

I did a test where I was casting crystal fragments against stamina NB for 5 minutes, while he was dodging them.

His health never dropped below 100% as he dodged everyone.

Next.

This is a thread about sorcs, not a thread to compare sorcs to other classes. If you don't like nightblades dodge rolling, start your own thread about it.

PS : I also agree that dodge rolling is a signifiant problem at the moment.

I tried this....but it of course turned into a "Nerf Sorc" thead. lol.

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

To Ezareth: Dude, you spend time & ressources en masse on finding the most boring & noobproof, never out of ressource builds possible in the game. You play a class that supports that build wonderfully. And you still complain about the other side while accusing those from the other side of "grass is greener" thinking. Wish I was that ignorant.

Best regards

I can't spend all day every day fighting the ignorance on display.

I "fail" to recast shields constantly. Every time some level 30 with a 2-hander uses a gap-closer on me I'm completely locked out until he's riding my ass like. Then that numbers jumps to 3 or 4 I'm instaggibed. Or are you telling me you've never seen groups of AP farmers using this Crit-charge "train" effect to hop from player to player instagibbing them while they're completely helpless.

Please find me "complaining" about the "other" side. You will only find me recommending a few things.

Decouple Stamina reduction and Dodge/Break Free reduction from Stamina cost reduction glyphs.
Nerf Regeneration champion passives and curtail regeneration capability in general
Fix the bugs created by Eric wroebel making god knows what change to "gap closer" abilities that cause people to get hit through dodge roll, get stuck in charge animation, get stuck in unbreakable CC, do damage up front instead of after hitting the target and whatever terrible bugs he unleashed on us with this change.
Fix Wrecking blow bugs (hitting through dodge roll, from 10 meters away etc)

Wrecking blow. Lethal Arrow. Dodge Roll. These abilities are fine as they are to me, I just want bugs fixed and regeneration toned down (which is exactly why I'm "exploiting" it to prove just how OP it is). When people try to accuse Sorcs of being OP I counter their arguments with a dose of reality.

The funny thing is I actually recall elitists like you telling me I was terrible for chosing Drink and regeneration over food and that I was Ignorant for thinking it was better. Now I'm "ignorant" for doing exactly what I said I was going to do to prove just how OP it is.

Sorcs are very strong right now. A root cause analysis would determined that Sorcs are very strong because the strongest ones have nearly unlimited resources, not that the class is too strong by itself.

Mojomonkeyman

Point me to my post criticizing you for your food choice. Desperate attempts to hit md with shots in the dark. So much credibility...

Didn't you make a rise of the roll dodger thread recently? That certainly can be labeled as grass is greener thinking.

Keep on denying, write books, whatever

My recommendation would be to just get real.

BR

Ezareth

Sile wrote: »

47 points into Bastion, 62 points into Magicka, Inner Light, no Necropotence, no Pets, Power Surge active. I do believe the tooltip doesn't include the 33% increase on yourself either?

If I had to guess It looks like someone is using a toggle bug/exploit.

There is a way you can keep toggle abilities like pets and magelight active without them being on your bar by using overload.
Unless that is crit surge on his hands it looks like he's in overload.

It requires 45,000 Magicka and 100 Points into bastion to make your tooltip display 13378 Hardened ward outside of Cyrodiil. With only 47 points in you'd have to be over 50K Magicka or higher which just isn't possible through normal means. Some smells fishy here.

Ezareth

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sile wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sile wrote: »

47 points into Bastion, 62 points into Magicka, Inner Light, no Necropotence, no Pets, Power Surge active. I do believe the tooltip doesn't include the 33% increase on yourself either?

First off, you're not in Cyrodiil, you're in Rawl'kha.

Secondly, let's have have a look into the attributes & active buffs page shall we?

This is the DC Cyrodil gate, the addon just hasn't updated. Does Rawlka really have a DC banner in it, really? (Top right corner)

How the hell do I know what a DC Cyrodiil gate looks like, I'm AD. Now let's look at the attributes and buffs page.

I'll take a screen shot of my tooltip and attributes page and put them here for juxtaposition.

If he is in Cyrodiil there is an easier explanation.....He's Emperor.

FENGRUSH

I think hes using blinxey build

Zhoyzu

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Shield stacking is not a sorcerer issue. No sorc can shield stack without the use of other abilities available to every class. Any DK or templar can have just as many shields up as a sorc at any given time.

Here is an OP shield stack:

Wear whitestrakes gear and use (2H or S&B) and resto - enchant your weapons with hardening. Charge in with shielded assault (or crit rush into brawler) if they burn through all that and your health goes down, whitestrakes will proc, immediately hit dampen magicka then pop barrier then pop a healing ward on top of barrier while your health is still low. Your weapon enchant shields should have proced by then giving you even more shields.

So many shields! Clearly this proves that sorcerer needs to get nerfed!

Yes sorcs have one strong damage shield, but it doesnt stack on itself. When you see a sorcerer with a blue health bar that goes across the screen they are using annulment or dampen and it won't even stop your weapon damage.

This is like saying that sorcs are OP because they use crushing shock and nirnhoned/sharpened/whatever trait is bugged next.

I think the main issue is that people have it in their minds that sorcs are supposed to be glass cannons with decent DPS but they are supposed to disintegrate like wet tissue paper if hit by a strong breeze. If you hit a sorc with a few light attacks and the sorc doesn't immediately explode then its time for another QQ thread.

If you don't like the shield meta, then tell ZOS to incentivize hybrid builds instead of just crying for nerfs. I'd much rather be a stamina sorc than a shield stacking, stick wielding, dress parade but I can't run a hybrid build anymore. I don't have enough resources to hold the attribute numbers in both magicka and stam, and have either of those hit for any decent amount of damage. Expert mage passive was also nerfed so my magicka costs as a stamina sorc are increased as well. Because of the health nerf, 15K of my resources are stolen and i won't get them back until I have about 300 champion points. So i don a dress like every other sorc is forced to.

This is not a sorc issue, its a no hardcaps + 15k less resoruces issue. The same issue is causing perma dodge roll and 15k wreaking blow spam.

But yeah nerfing sorc will fix all that.

thread ended here... 16 pages later people still discussin!

Ifthir_ESO

tl;dr you are a sorc homer

Ezareth

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Point me to my post criticizing you for your food choice. Desperate attempts to hit md with shots in the dark. So much credibility...

Didn't you make a rise of the roll dodger thread recently? That certainly can be labeled as grass is greener thinking.

Keep on denying, write books, whatever

My recommendation would be to just get real.

BR

I never said you, I said people like you.

My dodge roll thread says exactly what I stated in my response to you. As I've said many times I'm exploiting the same thing the people perma-dodging are. That isn't complaining about anything. You'll never find me anywhere saying Dodge rolling is too powerful.

I don't even know what the point of you entering this thread with your drivel is anyways. Is there a point or are you just attempting to troll?

corx3

I'm not bothered by sorcs at all. They either sit in the pocket with me and die or blink away for their lives. Barring odd terrain messing with Critical Rush's pathing, blinking sorcs actually give me more efficient damage lol.

Soris

Ezareth wrote: »

Wrecking blow. Lethal Arrow. Dodge Roll. These abilities are fine as they are to me, I just want bugs fixed and regeneration toned down (which is exactly why I'm "exploiting" it to prove just how OP it is). When people try to accuse Sorcs of being OP I counter their arguments with a dose of reality.

Be honest yourself about this. By cutting regeneration barrel rolling will be history right, but streaking will still be a thing because harness, even if they fix the bug.

Sile

Ezareth wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sile wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sile wrote: »

47 points into Bastion, 62 points into Magicka, Inner Light, no Necropotence, no Pets, Power Surge active. I do believe the tooltip doesn't include the 33% increase on yourself either?

First off, you're not in Cyrodiil, you're in Rawl'kha.

Secondly, let's have have a look into the attributes & active buffs page shall we?

This is the DC Cyrodil gate, the addon just hasn't updated. Does Rawlka really have a DC banner in it, really? (Top right corner)

How the hell do I know what a DC Cyrodiil gate looks like, I'm AD. Now let's look at the attributes and buffs page.

I'll take a screen shot of my tooltip and attributes page and put them here for juxtaposition.

If he is in Cyrodiil there is an easier explanation.....He's Emperor.

I'll make a video tomorrow some time. Will starting at character select be sufficient?

Ezareth

Soris_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Wrecking blow. Lethal Arrow. Dodge Roll. These abilities are fine as they are to me, I just want bugs fixed and regeneration toned down (which is exactly why I'm "exploiting" it to prove just how OP it is). When people try to accuse Sorcs of being OP I counter their arguments with a dose of reality.

Be honest yourself about this. By cutting regeneration barrel rolling will be history right, but streaking will still be a thing because harness, even if they fix the bug.

Barrel rolling would barely be touched by my suggestions. I would however be in a more difficult predicament with some stamina regen loss. I could survive a loss of 300 magicka regen that my suggestion entails. Stamina regen builds would probably lose less regen.

My suggestions are relatively minor ones not game changers. They push balance in the direction it should go without concern for needing to overcorrect.

The core of game design balance changes has always been small changes to abilities and things considered too strong and then a wait and see approach to see how those changes impacted gameplay. To date zos has done large sweeping changes typically which is why the meta switches back and forth every time they try to attempt balance.

I'm a numbers guy and I've spent a large portion of my adult life designing and balancing competitive PvP and strategy games for a living.

corx3 wrote: »

I'm not bothered by sorcs at all. They either sit in the pocket with me and die or blink away for their lives. Barring odd terrain messing with Critical Rush's pathing, blinking sorcs actually give me more efficient damage lol.

Ive been on the receiving end of this "efficiency" more that I'd care to admit. : (

cozmon3c_ESO

rich.magab14a_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

ambush spam

And that is your second problem.

when is the last time Ezareth died to a fear using nb 1v1

please dont tell me how to play a nb I kill sorcs plenty including you, as I have shown

the good ones a nb has no chance killing 1v1 fear or no fear

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I had a nice couple of fights with Germantrocity and he bugged over 90% of my BoL for several minutes. I know of two other sorcs as well who are consistently doing this as well. I've been able to replicate the issue but I'm loathe to used an exploit/bugged mechanic to win fights.

Nothing against you personally, In fact I respect you as a fellow sorc but...

Using an OP ability to completely shut down ranged magic is no less of an exploit than sorcs who manage to get under your BOL. The ability should be removed. It does nothing but prop up bad sorcs, and you might just find out youve picked up some extremely bad habits god forbid it is ever taken away from you. (Block casting, neglecting wards etc.)

I've been using 100% of the time since I was level 40 and Streak was far superior in all but a handful of ways. I'm not talking about "getting under my BoL" and the ability is hardly an exploit. I agree it adds survivability to bad sorcs, but just like dodge roll and so many other abilities it has plenty of (non-bug) counters.

Block-casting is actually pretty important when using bolt Escape unless you like getting knocked down with invasion and a host of other abilities all the time. I only neglect wards when I don't have another ability more important to cast.

Nothing you've said here makes any sense.

What I said made perfect sense. By "getting under your ball" I meant exactly what you already said. They found some combination of light and heavy attacks (or whatever) to consistently get through it. I think its great, you think its an exploit. Also when we said block casting, neither of us were talking about bolt escape, so why are you even bringing that up? If youre running away and you fear a cc from behind, of course you hold block. Thats not what you said though. Youve become so dependant on being completely immune to magic that you accidentally blocked a crushing shock and lost the fight because of it.

None of what you said was even relevant to what I said.

For a guy who preaches balance (I do too), do you actually think that you should be basically immune to almost all magic damage? On top of your ward? On top of your 3000 per tick magicka regen? On top of your lightning spitting fists of doom? If BOL is fixed the way you appear to want it to be fixed, then that is exactly what you are asking for. Ive not personally found this magical combination of light attacks that will render your ball useless, but there definitely needs to be some sort of limiting mechanic. An hp pool, a very small protective radius, a magic projectile cap, something. As it stands, BOL is a 20 meter radius spacetime warping magic eating black hole. Thats ridiculous. So is reflective scales. So is perma rolling. Those guys getting under your jesus ball arent exploiting mechanics (intended or otherwise) any more than you or anyone else is.

Are you seriously going to stomp on an already long dead DK horse in a nerf sorc thread? Geez leave magicka Dks alone

Dk reflective scales nerf still doesnt effect 1v1 fights so yes, against any ranged build you are OP still. Because of scales you guys can negate most sorc damage and keep spamming GDB when your low. its near impossible for a sorc to kill a dk if he doesnt slip up with scales. remember that next time you are facing a sorc. atleast bow builds usually have a melee option as there offhand to avoid killing themselves off the reflects. magicka users do not have that option, sorcs most of all since the dont have any melee ranged spells like the other classes and everything hard hitting are projectiles.

This is a ridiculous argument, pvp first and foremost is AvA, your argument about scales being op in 1v1 situations is invalid. Quite often you are never really in 1v1 there is practically always someone else there butting in. Also it's very hard to believe
that a Dk is impossible for a Sorc to kill in 1v1. I mean if you take Ezareth's way of playing, his whole strategy is about spreading people thin and draining there stamina by bolting and using daedric mines to create 1v1 situations to give himself the advantage. The majority of those people he kills are DKs. Instead of complaining about scales how about putting a stun in your rotation or using bolt to stun instead of using it to run away all the time. Also if a DK is stamina based and you get him to spam GDB and scales in the same rotation you already have him on the the ropes He'll need to spend a pot to get his resources back up other wise he wont be able to spam those skills again. Honestly with the nerfs to scales people's problem with it, is no longer that the skill is OP, there problem now with it is L2P.

Lol you say its rediculous argument because its ava, please, you dk's have the most OP ability in the game cutting out most ranged damage in the game with one ability that can be spammed into oblivion. and then you go and cite ezerath as a dk killer. i kill dks all the time because i know the cheese they are spreading but if one just keeps RS up forever and GDB spam when they're almost dead, they can literally kill any sorc they want. Just watch my videos.

The only thing that changed with RS is that you cant use it against large groups anymore, That is it. so before you realize your cheese stinks, take a good hard look at RS and tell me its balances in 1v1 negating most ranged damage in the game, most of all sorcerers damage. and your argument is that the game is ava even though there are 1v1's in it at times is just plain garbage. tell me how you die to a sorc and i will counter with how noob do you have to be to die to that sorcs damage lol.

Maulkin

Sile wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sile wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sile wrote: »

47 points into Bastion, 62 points into Magicka, Inner Light, no Necropotence, no Pets, Power Surge active. I do believe the tooltip doesn't include the 33% increase on yourself either?

First off, you're not in Cyrodiil, you're in Rawl'kha.

Secondly, let's have have a look into the attributes & active buffs page shall we?

This is the DC Cyrodil gate, the addon just hasn't updated. Does Rawlka really have a DC banner in it, really? (Top right corner)

How the hell do I know what a DC Cyrodiil gate looks like, I'm AD. Now let's look at the attributes and buffs page.

I'll take a screen shot of my tooltip and attributes page and put them here for juxtaposition.

If he is in Cyrodiil there is an easier explanation.....He's Emperor.

I'll make a video tomorrow some time. Will starting at character select be sufficient?

You'll probably have to, cause those numbers don't make sense. In juxtaposition here's me with 20 CPs in Bastion and 30k Max Magicka





20 extra CP points is another 2% and 16.5% more more max magicka is exactly that.

I expected 20% more than 8.2k. Obviously 8.2 * 1.2 does not make 14

There's something up with that. The values in your screenshot do not reflect what is seen in Cyrodiil

frozywozy

McDoogs wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

I fought a sorc today who agreed to test a build on purpose.

I am 1800 spell damage.

I was doing medium weaving destro fire attacks with Molten Armaments Molten whip + Engulfing Flame + Unstable Flame + Talons + Obsidian Shard.

He standed still just refreshing Hardened Ward / Healing Ward / Harness Magicka for 2minutes.

He had 18k hps, 26k magicka, 16k stamina wearing warlock / seducer with other ressource management perks.
His health never dropped under 100%.

This is where shield stacking becomes a problem. When you can get both high ressources management and defense at the same time. It should be one or the other. Ressources management should give you moderate but stable defense over time but you should never be able to resist a burst of damage without kitting it.

So you tested, against a sustain-built magicka sorceror, a steady dps rotation with no CC.

Were you trying to prove that you don't know how PvP works? You could have done the same thing against a blocking mag templar who stands still and heals while shield blocking, or a DK who keeps dragon wings up, or any stam build who uses harness magicka and roll dodge.

Where in my post do you see that I'm blaming the sorcerers ? You are the only one assuming that. I was talking about shield stacking in general.

Wreuntzylla

Sorcs may benefit too much from sustain. However, people complaining about high defense plus huge burst are really complaining about the very poorly designed zerg buster. A sorcs ranged burst is on par with melee burst when using ID. Quite a bit lower without.

Derra

I´ve wrote this somewhere before:

Templar and DK shields scale with health most likely to make it vaible for either stamina or tank builds the class supports by its design idea.Templars and DKs also have an instant combat heal to their disposal and in case of the DK also a hardcounter to all ranged attacks.
Sorc stamina builds are nowhere near the level of templars which a weaker than DK stam builds and NBs outperform the latter by quite a bit. The class is designed to be a magica based class (the changes to morphs actually reflect that as the sta morphs sorc got are rather pathetic).
There is simply no reason for the sorc class shield to be health based bc there is no underlying playstyle this would support. Sorc has no vaible stamina builds and is a crappy tank. All a health based shield would accomplish is a dmg or survivability nerf of the class - both is not needed atm when stamina builds do not have to make the same choice.

I would not want to bring the class on the level of magica based DKs and templars. They´re in dire need of help.

FENGRUSH

Derra wrote: »

I´ve wrote this somewhere before:

Templar and DK shields scale with health most likely to make it vaible for either stamina or tank builds the class supports by its design idea.Templars and DKs also have an instant combat heal to their disposal and in case of the DK also a hardcounter to all ranged attacks.
Sorc stamina builds are nowhere near the level of templars which a weaker than DK stam builds and NBs outperform the latter by quite a bit. The class is designed to be a magica based class (the changes to morphs actually reflect that as the sta morphs sorc got are rather pathetic).
There is simply no reason for the sorc class shield to be health based bc there is no underlying playstyle this would support. Sorc has no vaible stamina builds and is a crappy tank. All a health based shield would accomplish is a dmg or survivability nerf of the class - both is not needed atm when stamina builds do not have to make the same choice.

I would not want to bring the class on the level of magica based DKs and templars. They´re in dire need of help.

You can make almost anything viable!

Laerwen

Ezareth wrote: »

The funny thing is I actually recall elitists like you telling me I was terrible for chosing Drink and regeneration over food and that I was Ignorant for thinking it was better. Now I'm "ignorant" for doing exactly what I said I was going to do to prove just how OP it is.

Sorcs are very strong right now. A root cause analysis would determined that Sorcs are very strong because the strongest ones have nearly unlimited resources, not that the class is too strong by itself.

It takes at least twice as much energy to refute bullsh** as it does to create it. I actually agree with most of what you say, and I can see you spend a lot of time refuting bullsh**, so please dont take this the wrong way.

You dont need all that magicka regen. I run around 1800 regen popping potions whenever *** hits the fan and I *never* run out of magicka. You are giving up a lot of damage and defense for literally no gain whatsoever, barring bolting from side of Cyro to the other. You did some math and your eyes lit up, "omg regen is OP", but tell me how can that be true In the context of magicka when players with half your regen almost never run out? Youve traded so much for so little.

Laerwen

Double post.

Derra

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I´ve wrote this somewhere before:

Templar and DK shields scale with health most likely to make it vaible for either stamina or tank builds the class supports by its design idea.Templars and DKs also have an instant combat heal to their disposal and in case of the DK also a hardcounter to all ranged attacks.
Sorc stamina builds are nowhere near the level of templars which a weaker than DK stam builds and NBs outperform the latter by quite a bit. The class is designed to be a magica based class (the changes to morphs actually reflect that as the sta morphs sorc got are rather pathetic).
There is simply no reason for the sorc class shield to be health based bc there is no underlying playstyle this would support. Sorc has no vaible stamina builds and is a crappy tank. All a health based shield would accomplish is a dmg or survivability nerf of the class - both is not needed atm when stamina builds do not have to make the same choice.

I would not want to bring the class on the level of magica based DKs and templars. They´re in dire need of help.

You can make almost anything viable!

Well ok - you can make it somehow vaible. It just won´t reach the effectiveness of other classes with a similar build.

Ezareth

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

The funny thing is I actually recall elitists like you telling me I was terrible for chosing Drink and regeneration over food and that I was Ignorant for thinking it was better. Now I'm "ignorant" for doing exactly what I said I was going to do to prove just how OP it is.

Sorcs are very strong right now. A root cause analysis would determined that Sorcs are very strong because the strongest ones have nearly unlimited resources, not that the class is too strong by itself.

It takes at least twice as much energy to refute bullsh** as it does to create it. I actually agree with most of what you say, and I can see you spend a lot of time refuting bullsh**, so please dont take this the wrong way.

You dont need all that magicka regen. I run around 1800 regen popping potions whenever *** hits the fan and I *never* run out of magicka. You are giving up a lot of damage and defense for literally no gain whatsoever, barring bolting from side of Cyro to the other. You did some math and your eyes lit up, "omg regen is OP", but tell me how can that be true In the context of magicka when players with half your regen almost never run out? Youve traded so much for so little.

Hrmm, I don't want to give away exactly how my gearing, CP and focuses are just yet other than to say when I find that I have too much of something I cut it back.

There is a *ton* of min/maxing put into my build right now of almost every level and I'm taking advantage of minimizing dimishing returns on almost everything. For example, when I noticed I had too much magicka regen and magicka I switched my enchants from Magicka cost reduction to stamina cost reduction. This almost doubled the amount of dodge rolls I could do and decreased the cost of my defensive posture significantly and break free signficantly. I also switched over to 2 piece heavy armor which cost me more magicka regen and magicka cost reduction.

My damage right now is relatively weak compared to a lot of these "Glass Cannon" sorcs with 20K frags. That's fine by me because I'm utilizing other multipliers to compensate for my relatively weak spell power (only 2 VR14 Spell power set bonuses).

I've made a ton of tweaks to my build since 1.6 originally launched and I'm soon going to make a jump to switch all of my crafted gear over to Nirnhoned from Reinforced until ZoS fixes the garbage bug with that (it's own thread).

That said as I mentioned I could live with the loss of 300 magicka regen and be inconvenienced but still keep my playstyle relatively the same. I'm just taking advantage of some specific things right now that I don't want to detail out just yet as I'm planning on laying it all out in my upcoming 1vX video. I by no means think I have the best sorc build in the game right now but it probably *is* the "trolliest" one and it is quite enjoyable for me to play.

Ifthir_ESO

that was your best post in this thread @Ezareth

Ezareth

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

that was your best post in this thread @Ezareth

I typically respond well when someone speaks rationally and non-insultingly, especially if they actually take the time to break out and detail an argument to present their side of it.

When people barb their posts with insults or exaggerations I'll typically respond in kind.

I think *all* of us are pretty heated right now because there are so many bugs and imbalances introduced by 1.6 and the champion system and everything else with absolutely zero feedback from ZoS (despite their promise to the contrary with their new forum moderation clampdown) on any of these topics it is natural that the discussion breaks down into less rational debates.

The_Death_Princess

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Fix infinite roll dodging and wrecking blow spam builds, then come talk about sorcs shield-stacking k?



Every class has a way to mitigate/absorb damage, and have great survivability. Learn them. Then learn how to counter them.

What a hoot. Dewd, I would say your clueless, but obviously not since you only played the 2 OP classes.

So the truth is you are like so many other cookie cutter forum defenders that dont have the skill to play a class that doesnt have OP features. Bet you vamped in the day too (or still).

---
My thoughts about OP is that right now I agree that Sorcs are OP. But I would rather see permablock/360 block addressed first. This makes to many setups OP, and gives stamina melee a disadvantage since you cant 'melee' thru block like cast thru block.

Soris

Derra wrote: »

I´ve wrote this somewhere before:

Templar and DK shields scale with health most likely to make it vaible for either stamina or tank builds the class supports by its design idea.Templars and DKs also have an instant combat heal to their disposal and in case of the DK also a hardcounter to all ranged attacks.
Sorc stamina builds are nowhere near the level of templars which a weaker than DK stam builds and NBs outperform the latter by quite a bit. The class is designed to be a magica based class (the changes to morphs actually reflect that as the sta morphs sorc got are rather pathetic).
There is simply no reason for the sorc class shield to be health based bc there is no underlying playstyle this would support. Sorc has no vaible stamina builds and is a crappy tank. All a health based shield would accomplish is a dmg or survivability nerf of the class - both is not needed atm when stamina builds do not have to make the same choice.

I would not want to bring the class on the level of magica based DKs and templars. They´re in dire need of help.

Have you looked at stamina templar builds lately? There are only 2 skills from class tree currently using with stam builds(if you prefer WB over Jabs) one is, Purifying Ritual and the other is Repentance to harvest dead bodies. And two Aedric Spear passives to synergise your attacks which is Piercing Spear(10% more crit dmg for crit charge) and Balanced Warrior(6% more weapon dmg). That's all.

There are no more shield, heal and aura used from class line coz they are BS right now. They were the only reasons to templars were superior and tanky over all classes for stamina builds. That is history now.
Though you still put your shield in your bars to benefit from aedric passives. But if you use it as your defence like before, 6k shield is not gonna save you where you can just dodge.

They are somewhat good currently over magicka builds, because 2h skill line is overwhelmingly good(and dodge roll). If you drop that 2h weapon, good luck on the battlefield with stupid jabs, handing over free cc immunities here and there if you only successfully manage to hit your target with it ofc. There is that also..Like a mini game.

You can play this build pretty much with every class even as a sorc. Probably it will be better in terms of sustain, mobility and synergies.

edit:layout & some extras

Xsorus

The_Death_Princess wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Fix infinite roll dodging and wrecking blow spam builds, then come talk about sorcs shield-stacking k?



Every class has a way to mitigate/absorb damage, and have great survivability. Learn them. Then learn how to counter them.

What a hoot. Dewd, I would say your clueless, but obviously not since you only played the 2 OP classes.

So the truth is you are like so many other cookie cutter forum defenders that dont have the skill to play a class that doesnt have OP features. Bet you vamped in the day too (or still).

---
My thoughts about OP is that right now I agree that Sorcs are OP. But I would rather see permablock/360 block addressed first. This makes to many setups OP, and gives stamina melee a disadvantage since you cant 'melee' thru block like cast thru block.

Do you still have issues with block?

Tankqull

frozywozy wrote: »

I fought a sorc today who agreed to test a build on purpose.

I am 1800 spell damage.

I was doing medium weaving destro fire attacks with Molten Armaments Molten whip + Engulfing Flame + Unstable Flame + Talons + Obsidian Shard.

He standed still just refreshing Hardened Ward / Healing Ward / Harness Magicka for 2minutes.

He had 18k hps, 26k magicka, 16k stamina wearing warlock / seducer with other ressource management perks.
His health never dropped under 100%.

This is where shield stacking becomes a problem. When you can get both high ressources management and defense at the same time. It should be one or the other. Ressources management should give you moderate but stable defense over time but you should never be able to resist a burst of damage without kitting it.

take any magica user against someone with harness magica and the shield user will never drop under 100% its not a problem with shield stacking but magica attacks beeing unable to penetrait harness magica.

frozywozy

Tankqull wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

I fought a sorc today who agreed to test a build on purpose.

I am 1800 spell damage.

I was doing medium weaving destro fire attacks with Molten Armaments Molten whip + Engulfing Flame + Unstable Flame + Talons + Obsidian Shard.

He standed still just refreshing Hardened Ward / Healing Ward / Harness Magicka for 2minutes.

He had 18k hps, 26k magicka, 16k stamina wearing warlock / seducer with other ressource management perks.
His health never dropped under 100%.

This is where shield stacking becomes a problem. When you can get both high ressources management and defense at the same time. It should be one or the other. Ressources management should give you moderate but stable defense over time but you should never be able to resist a burst of damage without kitting it.

take any magica user against someone with harness magica and the shield user will never drop under 100% its not a problem with shield stacking but magica attacks beeing unable to penetrait harness magica.

Ok so if I got your point, everybody should slot harness magicka to deny 100% magicka builds out there ? fair enough.