Rise of the planet of the Sorcs

Maulkin

Soris_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Soris_ESO wrote: »

@mike.gaziotisb16_ESO

The point that you refuse to understand is sharing same resource for both dmg and defence causing problems making both uber powerfull in terms of numbers.

DKs and Templars have alrady trade-offs for either magicka or stamina builds. And that is how it should be.

The point that you refuse to understand is that stamina builds already use one resource for offense and defense. Challenge me on that all you want, I'm waiting.

What I'm suggesting is a buff to magicka Templar and DKs and god knows they need it.

Yeah dodge and block. Plus break free which is biggest stamina drainer. They have that at least. And sprint, stealth etc. There are more factors for stamina builds than magicka

So you agree and what you're saying is that it's ok for stamina to use one resource for offense and defense, but not ok for magicka builds to do the same.

Ok, gotcha

AltusVenifus

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Soris_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Soris_ESO wrote: »

@mike.gaziotisb16_ESO

The point that you refuse to understand is sharing same resource for both dmg and defence causing problems making both uber powerfull in terms of numbers.

DKs and Templars have alrady trade-offs for either magicka or stamina builds. And that is how it should be.

The point that you refuse to understand is that stamina builds already use one resource for offense and defense. Challenge me on that all you want, I'm waiting.

What I'm suggesting is a buff to magicka Templar and DKs and god knows they need it.

Yeah dodge and block. Plus break free which is biggest stamina drainer. They have that at least. And sprint, stealth etc. There are more factors for stamina builds than magicka

So you agree and what you're saying is that it's ok for stamina to use one resource for offense and defense, but not ok for magicka builds to do the same.

Ok, gotcha

I think that would be a great idea, if it worked the same way... every time you blocked a magic spell u lost magicka... every time u broke a stun, you broke it with magicka... dodge roll + melee block + root = stamina

JK i know your just trying to show correlation without having any real connective argument, because the above way would make magicka builds completely useless and magicka builds would just die on login...

Soris

There are also other facts in that post if you read. You almost everytime start a fight with half stamina because of sneaking.(if you sneak) And blocking =/= using wards

As a magicka build you can also do those movements just like stamina builds use magicka for purge for example.
Then why don't you make shields scale off stamina for stamina builds by this logic? I wouldn't want that though.

Anyways, I don't think this discussion end in somewhere tbh.

cozmon3c_ESO

Etaniel wrote: »

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

ambush spam

And that is your second problem.

when is the last time Ezareth died to a fear using nb 1v1

please dont tell me how to play a nb I kill sorcs plenty including you, as I have shown

the good ones a nb has no chance killing 1v1 fear or no fear

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I had a nice couple of fights with Germantrocity and he bugged over 90% of my BoL for several minutes. I know of two other sorcs as well who are consistently doing this as well. I've been able to replicate the issue but I'm loathe to used an exploit/bugged mechanic to win fights.

Nothing against you personally, In fact I respect you as a fellow sorc but...

Using an OP ability to completely shut down ranged magic is no less of an exploit than sorcs who manage to get under your BOL. The ability should be removed. It does nothing but prop up bad sorcs, and you might just find out youve picked up some extremely bad habits god forbid it is ever taken away from you. (Block casting, neglecting wards etc.)

I've been using 100% of the time since I was level 40 and Streak was far superior in all but a handful of ways. I'm not talking about "getting under my BoL" and the ability is hardly an exploit. I agree it adds survivability to bad sorcs, but just like dodge roll and so many other abilities it has plenty of (non-bug) counters.

Block-casting is actually pretty important when using bolt Escape unless you like getting knocked down with invasion and a host of other abilities all the time. I only neglect wards when I don't have another ability more important to cast.

Nothing you've said here makes any sense.

What I said made perfect sense. By "getting under your ball" I meant exactly what you already said. They found some combination of light and heavy attacks (or whatever) to consistently get through it. I think its great, you think its an exploit. Also when we said block casting, neither of us were talking about bolt escape, so why are you even bringing that up? If youre running away and you fear a cc from behind, of course you hold block. Thats not what you said though. Youve become so dependant on being completely immune to magic that you accidentally blocked a crushing shock and lost the fight because of it.

None of what you said was even relevant to what I said.

For a guy who preaches balance (I do too), do you actually think that you should be basically immune to almost all magic damage? On top of your ward? On top of your 3000 per tick magicka regen? On top of your lightning spitting fists of doom? If BOL is fixed the way you appear to want it to be fixed, then that is exactly what you are asking for. Ive not personally found this magical combination of light attacks that will render your ball useless, but there definitely needs to be some sort of limiting mechanic. An hp pool, a very small protective radius, a magic projectile cap, something. As it stands, BOL is a 20 meter radius spacetime warping magic eating black hole. Thats ridiculous. So is reflective scales. So is perma rolling. Those guys getting under your jesus ball arent exploiting mechanics (intended or otherwise) any more than you or anyone else is.

Are you seriously going to stomp on an already long dead DK horse in a nerf sorc thread? Geez leave magicka Dks alone

Dk reflective scales nerf still doesnt effect 1v1 fights so yes, against any ranged build you are OP still. Because of scales you guys can negate most sorc damage and keep spamming GDB when your low. its near impossible for a sorc to kill a dk if he doesnt slip up with scales. remember that next time you are facing a sorc. atleast bow builds usually have a melee option as there offhand to avoid killing themselves off the reflects. magicka users do not have that option, sorcs most of all since the dont have any melee ranged spells like the other classes and everything hard hitting are projectiles.

Bashev

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

ambush spam

And that is your second problem.

when is the last time Ezareth died to a fear using nb 1v1

please dont tell me how to play a nb I kill sorcs plenty including you, as I have shown

the good ones a nb has no chance killing 1v1 fear or no fear

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I had a nice couple of fights with Germantrocity and he bugged over 90% of my BoL for several minutes. I know of two other sorcs as well who are consistently doing this as well. I've been able to replicate the issue but I'm loathe to used an exploit/bugged mechanic to win fights.

Nothing against you personally, In fact I respect you as a fellow sorc but...

Using an OP ability to completely shut down ranged magic is no less of an exploit than sorcs who manage to get under your BOL. The ability should be removed. It does nothing but prop up bad sorcs, and you might just find out youve picked up some extremely bad habits god forbid it is ever taken away from you. (Block casting, neglecting wards etc.)

I've been using 100% of the time since I was level 40 and Streak was far superior in all but a handful of ways. I'm not talking about "getting under my BoL" and the ability is hardly an exploit. I agree it adds survivability to bad sorcs, but just like dodge roll and so many other abilities it has plenty of (non-bug) counters.

Block-casting is actually pretty important when using bolt Escape unless you like getting knocked down with invasion and a host of other abilities all the time. I only neglect wards when I don't have another ability more important to cast.

Nothing you've said here makes any sense.

What I said made perfect sense. By "getting under your ball" I meant exactly what you already said. They found some combination of light and heavy attacks (or whatever) to consistently get through it. I think its great, you think its an exploit. Also when we said block casting, neither of us were talking about bolt escape, so why are you even bringing that up? If youre running away and you fear a cc from behind, of course you hold block. Thats not what you said though. Youve become so dependant on being completely immune to magic that you accidentally blocked a crushing shock and lost the fight because of it.

None of what you said was even relevant to what I said.

For a guy who preaches balance (I do too), do you actually think that you should be basically immune to almost all magic damage? On top of your ward? On top of your 3000 per tick magicka regen? On top of your lightning spitting fists of doom? If BOL is fixed the way you appear to want it to be fixed, then that is exactly what you are asking for. Ive not personally found this magical combination of light attacks that will render your ball useless, but there definitely needs to be some sort of limiting mechanic. An hp pool, a very small protective radius, a magic projectile cap, something. As it stands, BOL is a 20 meter radius spacetime warping magic eating black hole. Thats ridiculous. So is reflective scales. So is perma rolling. Those guys getting under your jesus ball arent exploiting mechanics (intended or otherwise) any more than you or anyone else is.

Are you seriously going to stomp on an already long dead DK horse in a nerf sorc thread? Geez leave magicka Dks alone

Dk reflective scales nerf still doesnt effect 1v1 fights so yes, against any ranged build you are OP still. Because of scales you guys can negate most sorc damage and keep spamming GDB when your low. its near impossible for a sorc to kill a dk if he doesnt slip up with scales. remember that next time you are facing a sorc. atleast bow builds usually have a melee option as there offhand to avoid killing themselves off the reflects. magicka users do not have that option, sorcs most of all since the dont have any melee ranged spells like the other classes and everything hard hitting are projectiles.

But most Sorcs right now uses: curse, magicka detonation, mines, wrath and lightning staff. Reflective scales doesnt help much against them.

cozmon3c_ESO

Bashev wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

ambush spam

And that is your second problem.

when is the last time Ezareth died to a fear using nb 1v1

please dont tell me how to play a nb I kill sorcs plenty including you, as I have shown

the good ones a nb has no chance killing 1v1 fear or no fear

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I had a nice couple of fights with Germantrocity and he bugged over 90% of my BoL for several minutes. I know of two other sorcs as well who are consistently doing this as well. I've been able to replicate the issue but I'm loathe to used an exploit/bugged mechanic to win fights.

Nothing against you personally, In fact I respect you as a fellow sorc but...

Using an OP ability to completely shut down ranged magic is no less of an exploit than sorcs who manage to get under your BOL. The ability should be removed. It does nothing but prop up bad sorcs, and you might just find out youve picked up some extremely bad habits god forbid it is ever taken away from you. (Block casting, neglecting wards etc.)

I've been using 100% of the time since I was level 40 and Streak was far superior in all but a handful of ways. I'm not talking about "getting under my BoL" and the ability is hardly an exploit. I agree it adds survivability to bad sorcs, but just like dodge roll and so many other abilities it has plenty of (non-bug) counters.

Block-casting is actually pretty important when using bolt Escape unless you like getting knocked down with invasion and a host of other abilities all the time. I only neglect wards when I don't have another ability more important to cast.

Nothing you've said here makes any sense.

What I said made perfect sense. By "getting under your ball" I meant exactly what you already said. They found some combination of light and heavy attacks (or whatever) to consistently get through it. I think its great, you think its an exploit. Also when we said block casting, neither of us were talking about bolt escape, so why are you even bringing that up? If youre running away and you fear a cc from behind, of course you hold block. Thats not what you said though. Youve become so dependant on being completely immune to magic that you accidentally blocked a crushing shock and lost the fight because of it.

None of what you said was even relevant to what I said.

For a guy who preaches balance (I do too), do you actually think that you should be basically immune to almost all magic damage? On top of your ward? On top of your 3000 per tick magicka regen? On top of your lightning spitting fists of doom? If BOL is fixed the way you appear to want it to be fixed, then that is exactly what you are asking for. Ive not personally found this magical combination of light attacks that will render your ball useless, but there definitely needs to be some sort of limiting mechanic. An hp pool, a very small protective radius, a magic projectile cap, something. As it stands, BOL is a 20 meter radius spacetime warping magic eating black hole. Thats ridiculous. So is reflective scales. So is perma rolling. Those guys getting under your jesus ball arent exploiting mechanics (intended or otherwise) any more than you or anyone else is.

Are you seriously going to stomp on an already long dead DK horse in a nerf sorc thread? Geez leave magicka Dks alone

Dk reflective scales nerf still doesnt effect 1v1 fights so yes, against any ranged build you are OP still. Because of scales you guys can negate most sorc damage and keep spamming GDB when your low. its near impossible for a sorc to kill a dk if he doesnt slip up with scales. remember that next time you are facing a sorc. atleast bow builds usually have a melee option as there offhand to avoid killing themselves off the reflects. magicka users do not have that option, sorcs most of all since the dont have any melee ranged spells like the other classes and everything hard hitting are projectiles.

But most Sorcs right now uses: curse, magicka detonation, mines, wrath and light staff. Reflective scales doesnt help much against them.

light staff? do you mean healing staff or lightening staff? because the channeled heavy attack?

if you are dieing as a magicka dk to these when you have a damage shield that can eat the curse and magicka combination i dont know what to tell you, plus if you are running over mines lols. wrath does crap damage, lightening staff channel is ok damage. healing staff damage is crap damage.

RS negates our hardest hitting abilities making you guys the tankiest mofos in the game while reflecting most of what we cast at you and spamming shields and gdb when you finally get kinda low.

Maulkin

Soris_ESO wrote: »

There are also other facts in that post if you read. You almost everytime start a fight with half stamina because of sneaking.(if you sneak) And blocking =/= using wards

This is ridiculous now. That's your bloody problem!

How about you don't enter the fight till your stamina is full? I use Bolt Escape for mobility, which costs me a ton of magicka. I don't enter fights with half my magicka, because I'm not stupid. Nobody is forcing you to move stealthed, like nobody is forcing me to move with Bolt Escape. It's a choice you made, deal with it.

Soris_ESO wrote: »

As a magicka build you can also do those movements just like stamina builds use magicka for purge for example.
Then why don't you make shields scale off stamina for stamina builds by this logic? I wouldn't want that though.

Anyways, I don't think this discussion end in somewhere tbh.

Listen.

When my magicka build can dodge 50 times in a row, or when my armor with 3-4 nirnhorned pieces mitigates 50% of your damage....THEN we can talk about Wards scaling off stamina ok?

Bashev

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

ambush spam

And that is your second problem.

when is the last time Ezareth died to a fear using nb 1v1

please dont tell me how to play a nb I kill sorcs plenty including you, as I have shown

the good ones a nb has no chance killing 1v1 fear or no fear

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I had a nice couple of fights with Germantrocity and he bugged over 90% of my BoL for several minutes. I know of two other sorcs as well who are consistently doing this as well. I've been able to replicate the issue but I'm loathe to used an exploit/bugged mechanic to win fights.

Nothing against you personally, In fact I respect you as a fellow sorc but...

Using an OP ability to completely shut down ranged magic is no less of an exploit than sorcs who manage to get under your BOL. The ability should be removed. It does nothing but prop up bad sorcs, and you might just find out youve picked up some extremely bad habits god forbid it is ever taken away from you. (Block casting, neglecting wards etc.)

I've been using 100% of the time since I was level 40 and Streak was far superior in all but a handful of ways. I'm not talking about "getting under my BoL" and the ability is hardly an exploit. I agree it adds survivability to bad sorcs, but just like dodge roll and so many other abilities it has plenty of (non-bug) counters.

Block-casting is actually pretty important when using bolt Escape unless you like getting knocked down with invasion and a host of other abilities all the time. I only neglect wards when I don't have another ability more important to cast.

Nothing you've said here makes any sense.

What I said made perfect sense. By "getting under your ball" I meant exactly what you already said. They found some combination of light and heavy attacks (or whatever) to consistently get through it. I think its great, you think its an exploit. Also when we said block casting, neither of us were talking about bolt escape, so why are you even bringing that up? If youre running away and you fear a cc from behind, of course you hold block. Thats not what you said though. Youve become so dependant on being completely immune to magic that you accidentally blocked a crushing shock and lost the fight because of it.

None of what you said was even relevant to what I said.

For a guy who preaches balance (I do too), do you actually think that you should be basically immune to almost all magic damage? On top of your ward? On top of your 3000 per tick magicka regen? On top of your lightning spitting fists of doom? If BOL is fixed the way you appear to want it to be fixed, then that is exactly what you are asking for. Ive not personally found this magical combination of light attacks that will render your ball useless, but there definitely needs to be some sort of limiting mechanic. An hp pool, a very small protective radius, a magic projectile cap, something. As it stands, BOL is a 20 meter radius spacetime warping magic eating black hole. Thats ridiculous. So is reflective scales. So is perma rolling. Those guys getting under your jesus ball arent exploiting mechanics (intended or otherwise) any more than you or anyone else is.

Are you seriously going to stomp on an already long dead DK horse in a nerf sorc thread? Geez leave magicka Dks alone

Dk reflective scales nerf still doesnt effect 1v1 fights so yes, against any ranged build you are OP still. Because of scales you guys can negate most sorc damage and keep spamming GDB when your low. its near impossible for a sorc to kill a dk if he doesnt slip up with scales. remember that next time you are facing a sorc. atleast bow builds usually have a melee option as there offhand to avoid killing themselves off the reflects. magicka users do not have that option, sorcs most of all since the dont have any melee ranged spells like the other classes and everything hard hitting are projectiles.

But most Sorcs right now uses: curse, magicka detonation, mines, wrath and light staff. Reflective scales doesnt help much against them.

light staff? do you mean healing staff?

I mean lightning staff.

cozmon3c_ESO

Soris_ESO wrote: »

There are also other facts in that post if you read. You almost everytime start a fight with half stamina because of sneaking.(if you sneak) And blocking =/= using wards

As a magicka build you can also do those movements just like stamina builds use magicka for purge for example.
Then why don't you make shields scale off stamina for stamina builds by this logic? I wouldn't want that though.

Anyways, I don't think this discussion end in somewhere tbh.

i think the reason there is this compromise with Templar and DK's shields scaling off of health is this, they dont have an escape option. you guys are pretty tanky as a stamina build and a magicka build from my fights against your class, (even the noobs). your shields help you out tremendously either build style. the only issue i see is that magicka builds for dk's and templars damage out put is not as good as a sorcs damage, they make up for that in tankiness though. i think magicka builds in general's damage is a bit low compared to stamina builds. Stam build DK's and temps damage out put is pretty dang good, better then a sorcs for sure, and omg the roll dodges make it so sorces can barely do damage against them plus they have shields to eat damage as well.

Ezareth

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

no one said it was useless @Ezareth stop with the strawman.

Fear is a fantastic pvp skill, one of the best. But its not an "I win" button vs a good sorc is what I am saying.

@Ifthir_ESO
I'm not setting up a straw man only countering your absurd statement.

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

whoever said fear is anti sorc skill is dumb
you cant fear 99% of sorcs the are ranging you or streaking through. If you fear them they cc break and bolt away.

There are no "I win" buttons in this game but I' m trying to point out to you if you're willing to listen that the key to killing a sorc with the broken resource generation in this game right now (Nothing to do with sorcs) is running them out of stamina or bursting them down faster than they can apply their shields.

If you want to try to do this against a good sorc right now in a 1 v 1 situation you're going to have a difficult time of it unless you're also utilizing a well rounded resource generation build and are as skilled as they are or better. If you're built to kill people from stealth utilizing a glass cannon build you're going to lose against a good sorc every time....and you should.

Ebonheart Templars nightblade was only freaking VR9 the last time I saw him and he almost killed me several times and required another sorc and continuous detect pots and curse/mana detonation spam to kill him. I can't give you NB advice as I've never played one but I can point you to Nightblades who I hate going up against and have every bit as much as chance to kill me as I kill them. Sypher Ali, Sabre Ali(his NB), Ebonheart Templar, Ninja San, and Araxleon. These guys know their class and easily control a battle by squeezing every bit of utility out of all of their class skills and supporting ones. They operate no differently than I do, focus on strengths and supplement weaknesses in any way possible.

Ezareth

Sile wrote: »

Why oh why didn't they make a major and minor ward buff. It'd make shields uniform, unstackable, and inline with the other changes to buffs.

The only ward imo that is really strong is hardened ward. On my sorcerer it's almost 14k, in Cyro.

@Sile

I'm going to go ahead and call BS on that. Screen shot of ~10,500 Hardened Ward tooltip while in Cyrodiil please.

FENGRUSH

The nerf is inevitable!

Maulkin

Ezareth wrote: »

Sile wrote: »

Why oh why didn't they make a major and minor ward buff. It'd make shields uniform, unstackable, and inline with the other changes to buffs.

The only ward imo that is really strong is hardened ward. On my sorcerer it's almost 14k, in Cyro.

@Sile

I'm going to go ahead and call BS on that. Screen shot of ~10,500 Hardened Ward tooltip while in Cyrodiil please.

No point.

He's gonna go for a respec and give you a screenshot that is the result of:
a) all CP points possible into Bastion
b) all attribute points into magicka with 15k HP
c) Bound Armor toggled
d) Inner Light toggled
e) a pet toggled and a Necropotence Set equipped
f) Entropy and Meteor on the Bar
g) after he cast War Horn

Then he's gonna try and pass that like normal.

frozywozy

I fought a sorc today who agreed to test a build on purpose.

I am 1800 spell damage.

I was doing medium weaving destro fire attacks with Molten Armaments Molten whip + Engulfing Flame + Unstable Flame + Talons + Obsidian Shard.

He standed still just refreshing Hardened Ward / Healing Ward / Harness Magicka for 2minutes.

He had 18k hps, 26k magicka, 16k stamina wearing warlock / seducer with other ressource management perks.
His health never dropped under 100%.

This is where shield stacking becomes a problem. When you can get both high ressources management and defense at the same time. It should be one or the other. Ressources management should give you moderate but stable defense over time but you should never be able to resist a burst of damage without kitting it.

FENGRUSH

frozywozy wrote: »

I fought a sorc today who agreed to test a build on purpose.

I am 1800 spell damage.

I was doing medium weaving destro fire attacks with Molten Armaments Molten whip + Engulfing Flame + Unstable Flame + Talons + Obsidian Shard.

He standed still just refreshing Hardened Ward / Healing Ward / Harness Magicka for 2minutes.

His health never dropped under 100% hps.

What is your conclusion?

Ifthir_ESO

@ezareth you said above fear spam doesnt run you out of stam and you havent answered whether you die to nb 1v1 so at this point its obvious you are a sorc homer and we just disagree.

sorc has best burst dps in pvp
best escapbility
and best shield

thread has what almost 10k views? this isnt just me saying sorc is ridiculous right now

your response is to fear a sorc as a nb but you cant tell me a single nb youve died to 1v1. this instantly refutes your argument. instantly

its clear you are biased

Maulkin

frozywozy wrote: »

I fought a sorc today who agreed to test a build on purpose.

I am 1800 spell damage.

I was doing medium weaving destro fire attacks with Molten Armaments Molten whip + Engulfing Flame + Unstable Flame + Talons + Obsidian Shard.

He standed still just refreshing Hardened Ward / Healing Ward / Harness Magicka for 2minutes.

He had 18k hps, 26k magicka, 16k stamina wearing warlock / seducer.
His health never dropped under 100%.

I did a test where I was casting crystal fragments against stamina NB for 5 minutes, while he was dodging them.

His health never dropped below 100% as he dodged everyone.

Next.

frozywozy

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

I fought a sorc today who agreed to test a build on purpose.

I am 1800 spell damage.

I was doing medium weaving destro fire attacks with Molten Armaments Molten whip + Engulfing Flame + Unstable Flame + Talons + Obsidian Shard.

He standed still just refreshing Hardened Ward / Healing Ward / Harness Magicka for 2minutes.

He had 18k hps, 26k magicka, 16k stamina wearing warlock / seducer.
His health never dropped under 100%.

I did a test where I was casting crystal fragments against stamina NB for 5 minutes, while he was dodging them.

His health never dropped below 100% as he dodged everyone.

Next.

This is a thread about sorcs, not a thread to compare sorcs to other classes. If you don't like nightblades dodge rolling, start your own thread about it.

PS : I also agree that dodge rolling is a signifiant problem at the moment.

Ezareth

Laerwen wrote: »

What I said made perfect sense. By "getting under your ball" I meant exactly what you already said. They found some combination of light and heavy attacks (or whatever) to consistently get through it. I think its great, you think its an exploit. Also when we said block casting, neither of us were talking about bolt escape, so why are you even bringing that up? If youre running away and you fear a cc from behind, of course you hold block. Thats not what you said though. Youve become so dependant on being completely immune to magic that you accidentally blocked a crushing shock and lost the fight because of it.

None of what you said was even relevant to what I said.

For a guy who preaches balance (I do too), do you actually think that you should be basically immune to almost all magic damage? On top of your ward? On top of your 3000 per tick magicka regen? On top of your lightning spitting fists of doom? If BOL is fixed the way you appear to want it to be fixed, then that is exactly what you are asking for. Ive not personally found this magical combination of light attacks that will render your ball useless, but there definitely needs to be some sort of limiting mechanic. An hp pool, a very small protective radius, a magic projectile cap, something. As it stands, BOL is a 20 meter radius spacetime warping magic eating black hole. Thats ridiculous. So is reflective scales. So is perma rolling. Those guys getting under your jesus ball arent exploiting mechanics (intended or otherwise) any more than you or anyone else is.

I think it is an exploit because it *is* an exploit as it is circumvented intended game mechanics. It is no different than the old method of Killing nightblades with heavy staff attacks which if you held them on your target would prevent a nightblade from entering stealth. That was fixed relatively quickly (a patch or two after it was discovered and everyone began using it). It is no different than people throwing down caltrops to prevent Siege damage (that ended up with half of my guild unsubscribed and me ready to join them).

I brought up Bolt Escape because Ball of Lightning is a *morph* of it...and to make a point that I've been using BoL since the first day I could morph it. I think everyone becomes *dependent* on their abilities working the way they intend them to and when they don't they usually die (against a skilled player). Have you ever died to your weapon swap not working? To not being able to use a potion despite spamming it? To being hit through dodge roll or knocked down through block by abilities that shouldn't do be able to do that?

So yes I'm "dependent" upon abilities working the way they should and I make decisions based upon the assumption that those abilities will work in a reliable way. That said I die all the time to magic damage even when it isn't bugged. Plenty of magical abilities aren't projectiles and hit through BoL. I use those same abilities all the time against BoL sorcs. *All* Heavy Staff attacks (often for 10-15K), Velocious Curse, Mana detonation, Mages Wrath, Entropy, Daedric Mines, Jesus Beam, Jesus Beam of Veritable Execution, every DD magical attack....every class has access to several of these.

Ball of Lightning has an acquisition range of around 8 meters, maybe 10, not 20. I said before I'd support some limited nerfs to its defensive capability if they would also fix it so that it would work 100% of the time every time....for the sake of Balance of course ( =

Mojomonkeyman

Wow, I find sorcs whining about stamina users even more annoying than NBs whining about sorcs.

To Ezareth & crew:

Your bias is astounding. Even moreso after witnessing you defending the newly found strentghs of magicka sorc builds with books full of pseudo expertise. Are you seriously indicating that you feel "inferior" to stamina builds right now? That`s so hilarious, I`d even call it shameless.

Go play stamina sorc for a month, make some videos. Then come back and tell me how stamina has more sustain than recasting shields, then tell me how stamina outshines magicka in regards to ressource sharing.

I play both (stam & mag builds), and I claim to be not be biased in that regard, because I really like both styles and tested them extensively. In my experience both benefit and pay for a shared ressource about equally. Both major sustain mechanisms (shields vs dodge) leave windows of vulnerability.

Nonetheless you cannot "fail" to cast a shield, if the shield is up you wont receive the damage from the next hit. Theres a certain breathing room that each cast of a shield nets for the next seconds.

That`s not the case for dodge roll, a "failed" (not correctly timed) dodge roll will end up in receiving a lot of damage which is directly cutting into your health. That leads into spending time and ressources in recovering from those health losses (inbetween dodge rolls). So stamina spends time recovering after a failed move, while magicka is already casting offensively again because a failed cast of a shield is a thing that doesnt exist and didnt really make a difference.

Shield casting is noobproof in that regard. Take a resto with healing ward and your "panic buffer" in critical situations is 20-30k+ hp strong together with class shield. You don`t need it now? Don`t worry, you will benefit from it within the next 20 seconds.There is no such thing for a stamina player.

Those action-reaction scenarios are far more telling balance wise than any raw numbers or tooltips. And magicka builds certainly doenst have the short end of the stick.

To any magicka sorc out there who is complaining about stam, go try it. I would be very surprised if any of you guys wouldn`t eat your words.

To Ezareth: Dude, you spend time & ressources en masse on finding the most boring & noobproof, never out of ressource builds possible in the game. You play a class that supports that build wonderfully. And you still complain about the other side while accusing those from the other side of "grass is greener" thinking. Wish I was that ignorant.

Best regards

Maulkin

frozywozy wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

I fought a sorc today who agreed to test a build on purpose.

I am 1800 spell damage.

I was doing medium weaving destro fire attacks with Molten Armaments Molten whip + Engulfing Flame + Unstable Flame + Talons + Obsidian Shard.

He standed still just refreshing Hardened Ward / Healing Ward / Harness Magicka for 2minutes.

He had 18k hps, 26k magicka, 16k stamina wearing warlock / seducer.
His health never dropped under 100%.

I did a test where I was casting crystal fragments against stamina NB for 5 minutes, while he was dodging them.

His health never dropped below 100% as he dodged everyone.

Next.

This is a thread about sorcs, not a thread to compare sorcs to other classes. If you don't like nightblades dodge rolling, start your own thread about it.

PS : I also agree that dodge rolling is a signifiant problem at the moment.

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know that Sorcs played in a different game to other classes.

It's my bad comparing different forms of damage mitigation I guess, you're right it has no place in a balance discussion whatsoever.

/Facepalm

frozywozy

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Wow, I find sorcs whining about stamina users even more annoying than NBs whining about sorcs.

To Ezareth & crew:

Your bias is astounding. Even moreso after witnessing you defending the newly found strentghs of magicka sorc builds with books full of pseudo expertise. Are you seriously indicating that you feel "inferior" to stamina builds right now? That`s so hilarious, I`d even call it shameless.

Go play stamina sorc for a month, make some videos. Then come back and tell me how stamina has more sustain than recasting shields, then tell me how stamina outshines magicka in regards to ressource sharing.

I play both (stam & mag builds), and I claim to be not be biased in that regard, because I really like both styles and tested them extensively. In my experience both benefit and pay for a shared ressource about equally. Both major sustain mechanisms (shields vs dodge) leave windows of vulnerability.

Nonetheless you cannot "fail" to cast a shield, if the shield is up you wont receive the damage from the next hit. Theres a certain breathing room that each cast of a shield nets for the next seconds.

That`s not the case for dodge roll, a "failed" (not correctly timed) dodge roll will end up in receiving a lot of damage which is directly cutting into your health. That leads into spending time and ressources in recovering from those health losses (inbetween dodge rolls). So stamina spends time recovering after a failed move, while magicka is already casting offensively again because a failed cast of a shield is a thing that doesnt exist and didnt really make a difference.

Shield casting is noobproof in that regard. Take a resto with healing ward and your "panic buffer" in critical situations is 20-30k+ hp strong together with class shield. You don`t need it now? Don`t worry, you will benefit from it within the next 20 seconds.There is no such thing for a stamina player.

Those action-reaction scenarios are far more telling balance wise than any raw numbers or tooltips. And magicka builds certainly doenst have the short end of the stick.

To any magicka sorc out there who is complaining about stam, go try it. I would be very surprised if any of you guys wouldn`t eat your words.

To Ezareth: Dude, you spend time & ressources en masse on finding the most boring & noobproof, never out of ressource builds possible in the game. You play a class that supports that build wonderfully. And you still complain about the other side while accusing those from the other side of "grass is greener" thinking. Wish I was that ignorant.

Best regards

Are you kidding ? A failed dodge roll ? Haven't you seen all those videos of nightblades fighting 1v5 for 10mins straight dodge rolling, stealthing and teleporting to images like crazy abusing obstacles and environment around them ? dodge rolling doesn't take any skill whatsoever to complete successfuly. I have encountered players who can 1v5 easily abusing these mechanics for ages. Don't even try to bring dodge rolling in comparaison. Doesn't prove anything.

rich.magab14a_ESO

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

ambush spam

And that is your second problem.

when is the last time Ezareth died to a fear using nb 1v1

please dont tell me how to play a nb I kill sorcs plenty including you, as I have shown

the good ones a nb has no chance killing 1v1 fear or no fear

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I had a nice couple of fights with Germantrocity and he bugged over 90% of my BoL for several minutes. I know of two other sorcs as well who are consistently doing this as well. I've been able to replicate the issue but I'm loathe to used an exploit/bugged mechanic to win fights.

Nothing against you personally, In fact I respect you as a fellow sorc but...

Using an OP ability to completely shut down ranged magic is no less of an exploit than sorcs who manage to get under your BOL. The ability should be removed. It does nothing but prop up bad sorcs, and you might just find out youve picked up some extremely bad habits god forbid it is ever taken away from you. (Block casting, neglecting wards etc.)

I've been using 100% of the time since I was level 40 and Streak was far superior in all but a handful of ways. I'm not talking about "getting under my BoL" and the ability is hardly an exploit. I agree it adds survivability to bad sorcs, but just like dodge roll and so many other abilities it has plenty of (non-bug) counters.

Block-casting is actually pretty important when using bolt Escape unless you like getting knocked down with invasion and a host of other abilities all the time. I only neglect wards when I don't have another ability more important to cast.

Nothing you've said here makes any sense.

What I said made perfect sense. By "getting under your ball" I meant exactly what you already said. They found some combination of light and heavy attacks (or whatever) to consistently get through it. I think its great, you think its an exploit. Also when we said block casting, neither of us were talking about bolt escape, so why are you even bringing that up? If youre running away and you fear a cc from behind, of course you hold block. Thats not what you said though. Youve become so dependant on being completely immune to magic that you accidentally blocked a crushing shock and lost the fight because of it.

None of what you said was even relevant to what I said.

For a guy who preaches balance (I do too), do you actually think that you should be basically immune to almost all magic damage? On top of your ward? On top of your 3000 per tick magicka regen? On top of your lightning spitting fists of doom? If BOL is fixed the way you appear to want it to be fixed, then that is exactly what you are asking for. Ive not personally found this magical combination of light attacks that will render your ball useless, but there definitely needs to be some sort of limiting mechanic. An hp pool, a very small protective radius, a magic projectile cap, something. As it stands, BOL is a 20 meter radius spacetime warping magic eating black hole. Thats ridiculous. So is reflective scales. So is perma rolling. Those guys getting under your jesus ball arent exploiting mechanics (intended or otherwise) any more than you or anyone else is.

Are you seriously going to stomp on an already long dead DK horse in a nerf sorc thread? Geez leave magicka Dks alone

Dk reflective scales nerf still doesnt effect 1v1 fights so yes, against any ranged build you are OP still. Because of scales you guys can negate most sorc damage and keep spamming GDB when your low. its near impossible for a sorc to kill a dk if he doesnt slip up with scales. remember that next time you are facing a sorc. atleast bow builds usually have a melee option as there offhand to avoid killing themselves off the reflects. magicka users do not have that option, sorcs most of all since the dont have any melee ranged spells like the other classes and everything hard hitting are projectiles.

This is a ridiculous argument, pvp first and foremost is AvA, your argument about scales being op in 1v1 situations is invalid. Quite often you are never really in 1v1 there is practically always someone else there butting in. Also it's very hard to believe
that a Dk is impossible for a Sorc to kill in 1v1. I mean if you take Ezareth's way of playing, his whole strategy is about spreading people thin and draining there stamina by bolting and using daedric mines to create 1v1 situations to give himself the advantage. The majority of those people he kills are DKs. Instead of complaining about scales how about putting a stun in your rotation or using bolt to stun instead of using it to run away all the time. Also if a DK is stamina based and you get him to spam GDB and scales in the same rotation you already have him on the the ropes He'll need to spend a pot to get his resources back up other wise he wont be able to spam those skills again. Honestly with the nerfs to scales people's problem with it, is no longer that the skill is OP, there problem now with it is L2P.

Joy_Division

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

I fought a sorc today who agreed to test a build on purpose.

I am 1800 spell damage.

I was doing medium weaving destro fire attacks with Molten Armaments Molten whip + Engulfing Flame + Unstable Flame + Talons + Obsidian Shard.

He standed still just refreshing Hardened Ward / Healing Ward / Harness Magicka for 2minutes.

He had 18k hps, 26k magicka, 16k stamina wearing warlock / seducer.
His health never dropped under 100%.

I did a test where I was casting crystal fragments against stamina NB for 5 minutes, while he was dodging them.

His health never dropped below 100% as he dodged everyone.

Next.

Must be nice to have hardened ward or able to infinite dodge roll. The rest of us mortals who have neither or these unbalancing defense mechanisms can be dismissed because sorcs and perma-dodge rollers point argue their shenanigans are necessary because of the existence of the other.

Sile

47 points into Bastion, 62 points into Magicka, Inner Light, no Necropotence, no Pets, Power Surge active. I do believe the tooltip doesn't include the 33% increase on yourself either?

Maulkin

Sile wrote: »

47 points into Bastion, 62 points into Magicka, Inner Light, no Necropotence, no Pets, Power Surge active. I do believe the tooltip doesn't include the 33% increase on yourself either?

First off, you're not in Cyrodiil, you're in Rawl'kha.

Secondly, let's have have a look into the attributes & active buffs page shall we?

Maulkin

Joy_Division wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

I fought a sorc today who agreed to test a build on purpose.

I am 1800 spell damage.

I was doing medium weaving destro fire attacks with Molten Armaments Molten whip + Engulfing Flame + Unstable Flame + Talons + Obsidian Shard.

He standed still just refreshing Hardened Ward / Healing Ward / Harness Magicka for 2minutes.

He had 18k hps, 26k magicka, 16k stamina wearing warlock / seducer.
His health never dropped under 100%.

I did a test where I was casting crystal fragments against stamina NB for 5 minutes, while he was dodging them.

His health never dropped below 100% as he dodged everyone.

Next.

Must be nice to have hardened ward or able to infinite dodge roll. The rest of us mortals who have neither or these unbalancing defense mechanisms can be dismissed because sorcs and perma-dodge rollers point argue their shenanigans are necessary because of the existence of the other.

Orly?

Aren't you a templar? Are you telling me you cannot tank forever somebody spamming flame whip and heavy attacks with Harness Magicka, Healing Ward and Breath of Life?

It's tragic isn't it?

McDoogs

frozywozy wrote: »

I fought a sorc today who agreed to test a build on purpose.

I am 1800 spell damage.

I was doing medium weaving destro fire attacks with Molten Armaments Molten whip + Engulfing Flame + Unstable Flame + Talons + Obsidian Shard.

He standed still just refreshing Hardened Ward / Healing Ward / Harness Magicka for 2minutes.

He had 18k hps, 26k magicka, 16k stamina wearing warlock / seducer with other ressource management perks.
His health never dropped under 100%.

This is where shield stacking becomes a problem. When you can get both high ressources management and defense at the same time. It should be one or the other. Ressources management should give you moderate but stable defense over time but you should never be able to resist a burst of damage without kitting it.

So you tested, against a sustain-built magicka sorceror, a steady dps rotation with no CC.

Were you trying to prove that you don't know how PvP works? You could have done the same thing against a blocking mag templar who stands still and heals while shield blocking, or a DK who keeps dragon wings up, or any stam build who uses harness magicka and roll dodge.

Sile

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sile wrote: »

47 points into Bastion, 62 points into Magicka, Inner Light, no Necropotence, no Pets, Power Surge active. I do believe the tooltip doesn't include the 33% increase on yourself either?

First off, you're not in Cyrodiil, you're in Rawl'kha.

Secondly, let's have have a look into the attributes & active buffs page shall we?

This is the DC Cyrodil gate, the addon just hasn't updated. Does Rawlka really have a DC banner in it, really? (Top right corner)

Maulkin

Sile wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sile wrote: »

47 points into Bastion, 62 points into Magicka, Inner Light, no Necropotence, no Pets, Power Surge active. I do believe the tooltip doesn't include the 33% increase on yourself either?

First off, you're not in Cyrodiil, you're in Rawl'kha.

Secondly, let's have have a look into the attributes & active buffs page shall we?

This is the DC Cyrodil gate, the addon just hasn't updated. Does Rawlka really have a DC banner in it, really? (Top right corner)

How the hell do I know what a DC Cyrodiil gate looks like, I'm AD. Now let's look at the attributes and buffs page.

I'll take a screen shot of my tooltip and attributes page and put them here for juxtaposition.