Rise of the planet of the Sorcs

Ifthir_ESO

DezIsDead wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

The grass is always greener.....you're welcome to come on over and see how wrong you are.

Do you have any other characters or just a sorcerer? I would submit the statement of "Physician heal thyself" if the answer is no.

i disagree, when i die to a NB its always to fear, or the ranged morph of your execute. when you see sorcs running around with 15k health chances are they only have 8-10k stam. thats like 1 maybe 2 cc breaks before things get hairy. when i die to a nb im either getting ganked, feared, or bolting away to stack sheilds and get killed by ranged execute. of course this is just one sorcs experience.

lol quoted wrong quote sorry m8

No worries, but how often are you dying 1v1 vs a NB? Honest question.

EDIT: It can't just be me running into sorc escape problems, I didn't create this thread and/or most of the replies

Teargrants

Laerwen wrote: »

I have found a work around. Get them between you and their ball, or get them away from the ball. Im not overwhelmed by BOL, or afraid of a BOL sorcs believe me. I kill them fast and often , it is rather annoying though, and it stinks of reflective scales without the reflect.

I'm really confused now. So you have no trouble dealing w/ BOL other than "it is rather annoying", but you just called it an exploit and said that:

Laerwen wrote: »

The ability should be removed.

It seems to me you debunk your own argument.

PeggymoeXD

I still slay a greater amount of sorcs than manage to kite me away from safety and slay me. So sorcs are still "meh" imo.

And the only good ones are the ones that run away when they are in execute range, to ensure they are never executed. Of course I am by no means a "leet DK" but I know skill on the battlefield when I see it. Regardless if you eventually managed to light attack, force shock, and crystal frag me all at once and kill me, if you had to run away, recuperate, and return to 1v1 me several times in an open field, I don't recognize that as skill. I suppose I can recognize it as a playstyle, but not skill.

Laerwen

Teargrants wrote: »

Laerwen wrote: »

I have found a work around. Get them between you and their ball, or get them away from the ball. Im not overwhelmed by BOL, or afraid of a BOL sorcs believe me. I kill them fast and often , it is rather annoying though, and it stinks of reflective scales without the reflect.

I'm really confused now. So you have no trouble dealing w/ BOL other than "it is rather annoying", but you just called it an exploit and said that:

Laerwen wrote: »

The ability should be removed.

It seems to me you debunk your own argument.

I can tell youre a die hard BOL supporter, and thats ok, but its not going to matter what I say to you. I dont want Sorc vs sorc to become a girly slap fight of curse, fury and balls of light. If that is compelling gameplay for you then by all means, tickle each other to death, its fabulous. I for one am happy that I can still hit you in the face with my purple fragments of doom, and likewise be hit in the face like a good (or bad) sorc should. Now thats fun, thats gameplay.

I dont like BOL and I most certainly dont like scales.

DezIsDead

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

DezIsDead wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

The grass is always greener.....you're welcome to come on over and see how wrong you are.

Do you have any other characters or just a sorcerer? I would submit the statement of "Physician heal thyself" if the answer is no.

i disagree, when i die to a NB its always to fear, or the ranged morph of your execute. when you see sorcs running around with 15k health chances are they only have 8-10k stam. thats like 1 maybe 2 cc breaks before things get hairy. when i die to a nb im either getting ganked, feared, or bolting away to stack sheilds and get killed by ranged execute. of course this is just one sorcs experience.

lol quoted wrong quote sorry m8

No worries, but how often are you dying 1v1 vs a NB? Honest question.

EDIT: It can't just be me running into sorc escape problems, I didn't create this thread and/or most of the replies

This is going to sound smarmy, but o well. I die to any decent NB. Wanna know why? Because I'm an average sorc. Better than some, worse than others. I change my build to often (weekly) to actually get really good with my build. So of a run across a good to great NB chances are I'm going to die. Like today I got owned by some NB I've never heard of, because I had just dropped 200k gold to try out stam, had nothing leveled and got wrecked.

Ezareth

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

ambush spam

And that is your second problem.

when is the last time Ezareth died to a fear using nb 1v1

please dont tell me how to play a nb I kill sorcs plenty including you, as I have shown

the good ones a nb has no chance killing 1v1 fear or no fear

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I had a nice couple of fights with Germantrocity and he bugged over 90% of my BoL for several minutes. I know of two other sorcs as well who are consistently doing this as well. I've been able to replicate the issue but I'm loathe to used an exploit/bugged mechanic to win fights.

Nothing against you personally, In fact I respect you as a fellow sorc but...

Using an OP ability to completely shut down ranged magic is no less of an exploit than sorcs who manage to get under your BOL. The ability should be removed. It does nothing but prop up bad sorcs, and you might just find out youve picked up some extremely bad habits god forbid it is ever taken away from you. (Block casting, neglecting wards etc.)

I've been using 100% of the time since I was level 40 and Streak was far superior in all but a handful of ways. I'm not talking about "getting under my BoL" and the ability is hardly an exploit. I agree it adds survivability to bad sorcs, but just like dodge roll and so many other abilities it has plenty of (non-bug) counters.

Block-casting is actually pretty important when using bolt Escape unless you like getting knocked down with invasion and a host of other abilities all the time. I only neglect wards when I don't have another ability more important to cast.

Nothing you've said here makes any sense.

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

The grass is always greener.....you're welcome to come on over and see how wrong you are.

Do you have any other characters or just a sorcerer? I would submit the statement of "Physician heal thyself" if the answer is no.

Some of the best players I've ever played the game with have rerolled nightblade. Sypher. Ebonheart Templar. Sabre Ali. They're freaking beast mode players and I hate running into any of them on the field. I don't know any great player who has rerolled a sorc that I consider a good player. I know a bunch of people who have sorc alts who enjoy them but none of these players are any more effective on their sorcs than they are their main.

If I ever do reroll (which will never happen unless they make alliance rank shared between chars) it will be a nightblade as Nightblade has the highest skill cap and the most versatility of any class in the game right now. It is easiest to be terrible with a it and it is hardest to play the best but it is rewarding for those who master it. Sorc is very similar to nightblade in this respect and many others which is why we hate each other so much.

Ezareth

DezIsDead wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

The grass is always greener.....you're welcome to come on over and see how wrong you are.

Do you have any other characters or just a sorcerer? I would submit the statement of "Physician heal thyself" if the answer is no.

i disagree, when i die to a NB its always to fear, or the ranged morph of your execute. when you see sorcs running around with 15k health chances are they only have 8-10k stam. thats like 1 maybe 2 cc breaks before things get hairy. when i die to a nb im either getting ganked, feared, or bolting away to stack sheilds and get killed by ranged execute. of course this is just one sorcs experience.

lol quoted wrong quote sorry m8

Yeah fear is the CC that kills me more than any other including petrify. But hey just because I don't die to it in 1 v 1 (because it's nearly impossible to run me out of stamina 1 v 1) it must be useless right?

cozmon3c_ESO

nightblades kill me the most with lethal arrow, second comes from fear and the delay of cc break it has.

Ifthir_ESO

no one said it was useless @Ezareth stop with the strawman.

Fear is a fantastic pvp skill, one of the best. But its not an "I win" button vs a good sorc is what I am saying.

cozmon3c_ESO

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

no one said it was useless @Ezareth stop with the strawman.

Fear is a fantastic pvp skill, one of the best. But its not an "I win" button vs a good sorc is what I am saying.

roll dodge and cloak are pretty much a sorc damage negater for most of our attacks, if you cant utilize your defense and attack at the same time, thats probably why you are losing.

Sile

Why oh why didn't they make a major and minor ward buff. It'd make shields uniform, unstackable, and inline with the other changes to buffs.

The only ward imo that is really strong is hardened ward. On my sorcerer it's almost 14k, in Cyro.

Derra

Sile wrote: »

Why oh why didn't they make a major and minor ward buff. It'd make shields uniform, unstackable, and inline with the other changes to buffs.

The only ward imo that is really strong is hardened ward. On my sorcerer it's almost 14k, in Cyro.

Strange i´m completely feeling the other way round. The "strong" shields are harness vs magica builds bc it does not cost you anything (resources wise) and healing ward is a *** joke - it´s almost impossible to die with healing ward slotted (imho it should be changed so the shield strengh increases by maybe 150% and to compensate the initial heal scales by like 150% too).

On a sidenote: 14k hardened ward in cyro put you either at low spelldmg or reg or you need to use pets. How are ppl dying to that.

Laerwen

Ezareth wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

ambush spam

And that is your second problem.

when is the last time Ezareth died to a fear using nb 1v1

please dont tell me how to play a nb I kill sorcs plenty including you, as I have shown

the good ones a nb has no chance killing 1v1 fear or no fear

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I had a nice couple of fights with Germantrocity and he bugged over 90% of my BoL for several minutes. I know of two other sorcs as well who are consistently doing this as well. I've been able to replicate the issue but I'm loathe to used an exploit/bugged mechanic to win fights.

Nothing against you personally, In fact I respect you as a fellow sorc but...

Using an OP ability to completely shut down ranged magic is no less of an exploit than sorcs who manage to get under your BOL. The ability should be removed. It does nothing but prop up bad sorcs, and you might just find out youve picked up some extremely bad habits god forbid it is ever taken away from you. (Block casting, neglecting wards etc.)

I've been using 100% of the time since I was level 40 and Streak was far superior in all but a handful of ways. I'm not talking about "getting under my BoL" and the ability is hardly an exploit. I agree it adds survivability to bad sorcs, but just like dodge roll and so many other abilities it has plenty of (non-bug) counters.

Block-casting is actually pretty important when using bolt Escape unless you like getting knocked down with invasion and a host of other abilities all the time. I only neglect wards when I don't have another ability more important to cast.

Nothing you've said here makes any sense.

What I said made perfect sense. By "getting under your ball" I meant exactly what you already said. They found some combination of light and heavy attacks (or whatever) to consistently get through it. I think its great, you think its an exploit. Also when we said block casting, neither of us were talking about bolt escape, so why are you even bringing that up? If youre running away and you fear a cc from behind, of course you hold block. Thats not what you said though. Youve become so dependant on being completely immune to magic that you accidentally blocked a crushing shock and lost the fight because of it.

None of what you said was even relevant to what I said.

For a guy who preaches balance (I do too), do you actually think that you should be basically immune to almost all magic damage? On top of your ward? On top of your 3000 per tick magicka regen? On top of your lightning spitting fists of doom? If BOL is fixed the way you appear to want it to be fixed, then that is exactly what you are asking for. Ive not personally found this magical combination of light attacks that will render your ball useless, but there definitely needs to be some sort of limiting mechanic. An hp pool, a very small protective radius, a magic projectile cap, something. As it stands, BOL is a 20 meter radius spacetime warping magic eating black hole. Thats ridiculous. So is reflective scales. So is perma rolling. Those guys getting under your jesus ball arent exploiting mechanics (intended or otherwise) any more than you or anyone else is.

Etaniel

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

ambush spam

And that is your second problem.

when is the last time Ezareth died to a fear using nb 1v1

please dont tell me how to play a nb I kill sorcs plenty including you, as I have shown

the good ones a nb has no chance killing 1v1 fear or no fear

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I had a nice couple of fights with Germantrocity and he bugged over 90% of my BoL for several minutes. I know of two other sorcs as well who are consistently doing this as well. I've been able to replicate the issue but I'm loathe to used an exploit/bugged mechanic to win fights.

Nothing against you personally, In fact I respect you as a fellow sorc but...

Using an OP ability to completely shut down ranged magic is no less of an exploit than sorcs who manage to get under your BOL. The ability should be removed. It does nothing but prop up bad sorcs, and you might just find out youve picked up some extremely bad habits god forbid it is ever taken away from you. (Block casting, neglecting wards etc.)

I've been using 100% of the time since I was level 40 and Streak was far superior in all but a handful of ways. I'm not talking about "getting under my BoL" and the ability is hardly an exploit. I agree it adds survivability to bad sorcs, but just like dodge roll and so many other abilities it has plenty of (non-bug) counters.

Block-casting is actually pretty important when using bolt Escape unless you like getting knocked down with invasion and a host of other abilities all the time. I only neglect wards when I don't have another ability more important to cast.

Nothing you've said here makes any sense.

What I said made perfect sense. By "getting under your ball" I meant exactly what you already said. They found some combination of light and heavy attacks (or whatever) to consistently get through it. I think its great, you think its an exploit. Also when we said block casting, neither of us were talking about bolt escape, so why are you even bringing that up? If youre running away and you fear a cc from behind, of course you hold block. Thats not what you said though. Youve become so dependant on being completely immune to magic that you accidentally blocked a crushing shock and lost the fight because of it.

None of what you said was even relevant to what I said.

For a guy who preaches balance (I do too), do you actually think that you should be basically immune to almost all magic damage? On top of your ward? On top of your 3000 per tick magicka regen? On top of your lightning spitting fists of doom? If BOL is fixed the way you appear to want it to be fixed, then that is exactly what you are asking for. Ive not personally found this magical combination of light attacks that will render your ball useless, but there definitely needs to be some sort of limiting mechanic. An hp pool, a very small protective radius, a magic projectile cap, something. As it stands, BOL is a 20 meter radius spacetime warping magic eating black hole. Thats ridiculous. So is reflective scales. So is perma rolling. Those guys getting under your jesus ball arent exploiting mechanics (intended or otherwise) any more than you or anyone else is.

Are you seriously going to stomp on an already long dead DK horse in a nerf sorc thread? Geez leave magicka Dks alone

Maulkin

Respose to @Lhorion on his quote:

What is the problem with changing all shields scaling with health?
This would force us looking for a compromise if we want to stack shields.

The problem is that it's a triple nerf. You have to put 25k into HP to get a much weaker shield than you had before and in the process you reduce your damage too and your sustain (because you now have less max magicka).

As a result of this stupid change (wards scaling off HP) magicka Templars and DKs are inferior to their stamina counterparts.

Because a Stamina DK you see, also has no concerns about stacking HP past the 20k HP point (to avoid siege one-shots). Thus the hypocrisy here is that magicka Sorcs can go all into magicka with no concern for HP, while stamina builds do pretty much the same.

They get more dodge rolls, more heals with Vigor, more damage by stacking stamina & stamina regen. They get offense and defense from the same stat. Thus they are both burstier and more survivable than the magicka counterparts of the same class.

Making Igneous Shield and Blazing Shield scale of Max Magicka would be a great change for DKs and Templars. In their current nerfed version they help noone. Tanks don't care about shield sizes, because they use armor and block for mitigation. Stamina builds don't use wards they are too expensive for them.

The only builds that need wards as their primary defense are Magicka builds and making those wards scale off HP has been in my honest opinion a GIANT nerf for them. Especially when light armor offers 0 mitigation.

PS: Shield Stacking is another issue. They should make Healing Ward a direct heal like Templar BoL, which would benefit non-Templar Dungeon Healers and once that's done they can remove shield-stacking completely. The last shield you cast, replaces the previous one. Only one shield active.

Soris

From an other thread that had been closed recently and suggested to continue discussion from here.

Lhorion wrote: »

What is the problem with changing all shields scaling with health?
This would force us looking for a compromise if we want to stack shields.

Yep this is the best thing to do to balance shield issue. It will solve having huge burst & huge shields bullshìt packed in same build. But make sure before doing this, revert the Cyrodiil shield nerf and reduce the burst of skills to come in line with health based shields. (to somewhere close to pre 1.6)
And maybe add some little more health for the sake of TTK

Ifthir_ESO

sorcs have the best burst dps
the best shield
the best escapability

and sorcs still asking for buffs

sounds legit

Maulkin

Soris_ESO wrote: »

From an other thread that had been closed recently and suggested to continue discussion from here.

Lhorion wrote: »

What is the problem with changing all shields scaling with health?
This would force us looking for a compromise if we want to stack shields.

Yep this is the best thing to do to balance shield issue. It will solve having huge burst & huge shields bullshìt packed in same build. But make sure before doing this, revert the Cyrodiil shield nerf and reduce the burst of skills to come in line with health based shields. (to somewhere close to pre 1.6)
And maybe add some little more health for the sake of TTK

That would be the worst thing. Read my response above.

Lhorion

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Respose to @Lhorion on his quote:

What is the problem with changing all shields scaling with health?
This would force us looking for a compromise if we want to stack shields.

The problem is that it's a triple nerf. You have to put 25k into HP to get a much weaker shield than you had before and in the process you reduce your damage too and your sustain (because you now have less max magicka).

As a result of this stupid change (wards scaling off HP) magicka Templars and DKs are inferior to their stamina counterparts.

Because a Stamina DK you see, also has no concerns about stacking HP past the 20k HP point (to avoid siege one-shots). Thus the hypocrisy here is that magicka Sorcs can go all into magicka with no concern for HP, while stamina builds do pretty much the same.

They get more dodge rolls, more heals with Vigor, more damage by stacking stamina & stamina regen. They get offense and defense from the same stat. Thus they are both burstier and more survivable than the magicka counterparts of the same class.

Making Igneous Shield and Blazing Shield scale of Max Magicka would be a great change for DKs and Templars. In their current nerfed version they help noone. Tanks don't care about shield sizes, because they use armor and block for mitigation. Stamina builds don't use wards they are too expensive for them.

The only builds that need wards as their primary defense are Magicka builds and making those wards scale off HP has been in my honest opinion a GIANT nerf for them. Especially when light armor offers 0 mitigation.

PS: Shield Stacking is another issue. They should make Healing Ward a direct heal like Templar BoL, which would benefit non-Templar Dungeon Healers and once that's done they can remove shield-stacking completely. The last shield you cast, replaces the previous one. Only one shield active.

Shields should scale with one ressource. Problem with magicka is that shields will be unusable for stamina builds.

It would be a nerf (scaling with health). But DKs and templars have to do this compromise, too.
4k more health and less magicka would not destroy the strong class.

McDoogs

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Respose to @Lhorion on his quote:

What is the problem with changing all shields scaling with health?
This would force us looking for a compromise if we want to stack shields.

The problem is that it's a triple nerf. You have to put 25k into HP to get a much weaker shield than you had before and in the process you reduce your damage too and your sustain (because you now have less max magicka).

As a result of this stupid change (wards scaling off HP) magicka Templars and DKs are inferior to their stamina counterparts.

Because a Stamina DK you see, also has no concerns about stacking HP past the 20k HP point (to avoid siege one-shots). Thus the hypocrisy here is that magicka Sorcs can go all into magicka with no concern for HP, while stamina builds do pretty much the same.

They get more dodge rolls, more heals with Vigor, more damage by stacking stamina & stamina regen. They get offense and defense from the same stat. Thus they are both burstier and more survivable than the magicka counterparts of the same class.

Making Igneous Shield and Blazing Shield scale of Max Magicka would be a great change for DKs and Templars. In their current nerfed version they help noone. Tanks don't care about shield sizes, because they use armor and block for mitigation. Stamina builds don't use wards they are too expensive for them.

The only builds that need wards as their primary defense are Magicka builds and making those wards scale off HP has been in my honest opinion a GIANT nerf for them. Especially when light armor offers 0 mitigation.

PS: Shield Stacking is another issue. They should make Healing Ward a direct heal like Templar BoL, which would benefit non-Templar Dungeon Healers and once that's done they can remove shield-stacking completely. The last shield you cast, replaces the previous one. Only one shield active.

What? I use blazing shield all the time on my stam templar. It's basically a free cast, because I dont use magicka for anything else besides purifying light on him. Damage shields are great for stamina builds (hint: magicka is not a problem if you have at least 1k mag regen and only cast once every 6 seconds or so)

Maulkin

Lhorion wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Respose to @Lhorion on his quote:

What is the problem with changing all shields scaling with health?
This would force us looking for a compromise if we want to stack shields.

The problem is that it's a triple nerf. You have to put 25k into HP to get a much weaker shield than you had before and in the process you reduce your damage too and your sustain (because you now have less max magicka).

As a result of this stupid change (wards scaling off HP) magicka Templars and DKs are inferior to their stamina counterparts.

Because a Stamina DK you see, also has no concerns about stacking HP past the 20k HP point (to avoid siege one-shots). Thus the hypocrisy here is that magicka Sorcs can go all into magicka with no concern for HP, while stamina builds do pretty much the same.

They get more dodge rolls, more heals with Vigor, more damage by stacking stamina & stamina regen. They get offense and defense from the same stat. Thus they are both burstier and more survivable than the magicka counterparts of the same class.

Making Igneous Shield and Blazing Shield scale of Max Magicka would be a great change for DKs and Templars. In their current nerfed version they help noone. Tanks don't care about shield sizes, because they use armor and block for mitigation. Stamina builds don't use wards they are too expensive for them.

The only builds that need wards as their primary defense are Magicka builds and making those wards scale off HP has been in my honest opinion a GIANT nerf for them. Especially when light armor offers 0 mitigation.

PS: Shield Stacking is another issue. They should make Healing Ward a direct heal like Templar BoL, which would benefit non-Templar Dungeon Healers and once that's done they can remove shield-stacking completely. The last shield you cast, replaces the previous one. Only one shield active.

Shields should scale with one ressource. Problem with magicka is that shields will be unusable for stamina builds.

It would be a nerf (scaling with health). But DKs and templars have to do this compromise, too.
4k more health and less magicka would not destroy the strong class.

I'm sorry but that is a stupid compromise that DKs have to make. Wards should indeed scale off one resource and one resource only across classes, Magicka.

Stamina DK builds already have vastly superior damage mitigation to light (via medium armor), they have better damage avoidance via dodge rolls and evasion and now they also have great heals with Vigor and Rally.

Wards should be absolutely crap for stamina builds. They have other forms of mitigation. Nerfing wards to scale off HP so that stamina builds can benefit from them? What you're saying is absolutely unreasonable to me. But I guess each to their own

McDoogs

I shouldnt do this, but here are some ways to counter the typical mag sorc build:

1) equip a shield and hold block. absorb magic/defensive stance are a nice bonus

2) be a dragon knight. you shouldn't die to any sorc burst, just keep dragon wings up and you are invincible, especially with periodic GDBs.

3) roll dodge our frags. as a bonus, animation cancel harness magicka/dampen magic with a roll dodge.

4) be a magicka templar and use eclipse every 5 seconds.


Your welcome!

Lhorion

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Lhorion wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Respose to @Lhorion on his quote:

What is the problem with changing all shields scaling with health?
This would force us looking for a compromise if we want to stack shields.

The problem is that it's a triple nerf. You have to put 25k into HP to get a much weaker shield than you had before and in the process you reduce your damage too and your sustain (because you now have less max magicka).

As a result of this stupid change (wards scaling off HP) magicka Templars and DKs are inferior to their stamina counterparts.

Because a Stamina DK you see, also has no concerns about stacking HP past the 20k HP point (to avoid siege one-shots). Thus the hypocrisy here is that magicka Sorcs can go all into magicka with no concern for HP, while stamina builds do pretty much the same.

They get more dodge rolls, more heals with Vigor, more damage by stacking stamina & stamina regen. They get offense and defense from the same stat. Thus they are both burstier and more survivable than the magicka counterparts of the same class.

Making Igneous Shield and Blazing Shield scale of Max Magicka would be a great change for DKs and Templars. In their current nerfed version they help noone. Tanks don't care about shield sizes, because they use armor and block for mitigation. Stamina builds don't use wards they are too expensive for them.

The only builds that need wards as their primary defense are Magicka builds and making those wards scale off HP has been in my honest opinion a GIANT nerf for them. Especially when light armor offers 0 mitigation.

PS: Shield Stacking is another issue. They should make Healing Ward a direct heal like Templar BoL, which would benefit non-Templar Dungeon Healers and once that's done they can remove shield-stacking completely. The last shield you cast, replaces the previous one. Only one shield active.

Shields should scale with one ressource. Problem with magicka is that shields will be unusable for stamina builds.

It would be a nerf (scaling with health). But DKs and templars have to do this compromise, too.
4k more health and less magicka would not destroy the strong class.

I'm sorry but that is a stupid compromise that DKs have to make. Wards should indeed scale off one resource and one resource only across classes, Magicka.

Stamina builds already have vastly superior damage mitigation to light, they have better damage avoidance via dodge rolls and evasion and now they also have great heals with Vigor and Rally.

Wards should be absolutely crap for stamina builds. They have other forms of mitigation. What you're saying is absolutely unreasonable to me. But I guess each to their own

I don't think Blazing Shield SHOULD be crap for stamina builds.
Igneous shield is nice for stamina builds, too.

But magicka DKs and templars have to so this compromise, too. I have a magicka DK and I spent points in health for having a class shield that is good. I don't see the point sorcs would be destroyed with such a shield, too.

Xael

Stop whining and get some accountability for your failure. Stop making scapegoats for your poor decisions. Sorcs are not the problem, you are. I have no trouble at all with Sorcs on 3 different classes. Odd, I have yet to see any good pvpers make threads like these.

Maulkin

Lhorion wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Lhorion wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Respose to @Lhorion on his quote:

What is the problem with changing all shields scaling with health?
This would force us looking for a compromise if we want to stack shields.

The problem is that it's a triple nerf. You have to put 25k into HP to get a much weaker shield than you had before and in the process you reduce your damage too and your sustain (because you now have less max magicka).

As a result of this stupid change (wards scaling off HP) magicka Templars and DKs are inferior to their stamina counterparts.

Because a Stamina DK you see, also has no concerns about stacking HP past the 20k HP point (to avoid siege one-shots). Thus the hypocrisy here is that magicka Sorcs can go all into magicka with no concern for HP, while stamina builds do pretty much the same.

They get more dodge rolls, more heals with Vigor, more damage by stacking stamina & stamina regen. They get offense and defense from the same stat. Thus they are both burstier and more survivable than the magicka counterparts of the same class.

Making Igneous Shield and Blazing Shield scale of Max Magicka would be a great change for DKs and Templars. In their current nerfed version they help noone. Tanks don't care about shield sizes, because they use armor and block for mitigation. Stamina builds don't use wards they are too expensive for them.

The only builds that need wards as their primary defense are Magicka builds and making those wards scale off HP has been in my honest opinion a GIANT nerf for them. Especially when light armor offers 0 mitigation.

PS: Shield Stacking is another issue. They should make Healing Ward a direct heal like Templar BoL, which would benefit non-Templar Dungeon Healers and once that's done they can remove shield-stacking completely. The last shield you cast, replaces the previous one. Only one shield active.

Shields should scale with one ressource. Problem with magicka is that shields will be unusable for stamina builds.

It would be a nerf (scaling with health). But DKs and templars have to do this compromise, too.
4k more health and less magicka would not destroy the strong class.

I'm sorry but that is a stupid compromise that DKs have to make. Wards should indeed scale off one resource and one resource only across classes, Magicka.

Stamina builds already have vastly superior damage mitigation to light, they have better damage avoidance via dodge rolls and evasion and now they also have great heals with Vigor and Rally.

Wards should be absolutely crap for stamina builds. They have other forms of mitigation. What you're saying is absolutely unreasonable to me. But I guess each to their own

I don't think Blazing Shield SHOULD be crap for stamina builds.
Igneous shield is nice for stamina builds, too.

But magicka DKs and templars have to so this compromise, too. I have a magicka DK and I spent points in health for having a class shield that is good. I don't see the point sorcs would be destroyed with such a shield, too.

I can't see your point at all. I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one

Soris

@mike.gaziotisb16_ESO

The point that you refuse to understand is sharing same resource for both dmg and defence causing problems making both uber powerfull in terms of numbers.

DKs and Templars have alrady trade-offs for either magicka or stamina builds. And that is how it should be for everyone else. Making blazing shield scale off magicka will bring you OPlar with UNLIMITED amounts of 10k shield and 5k hits each. Like pre 1.6 but now it will be literally unlimited as I siad with extreme magicka regen and cost reductions since you dont have to care 2 different pools unlike 1.5

Maulkin

Soris_ESO wrote: »

@mike.gaziotisb16_ESO

The point that you refuse to understand is sharing same resource for both dmg and defence causing problems making both uber powerfull in terms of numbers.

DKs and Templars have alrady trade-offs for either magicka or stamina builds. And that is how it should be.

The point that you refuse to understand is that stamina builds already use one resource for offense and defense. Challenge me on that all you want, I'm waiting.

What I'm suggesting is a buff to magicka Templar and DKs and god knows they need it.

Soris

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Soris_ESO wrote: »

@mike.gaziotisb16_ESO

The point that you refuse to understand is sharing same resource for both dmg and defence causing problems making both uber powerfull in terms of numbers.

DKs and Templars have alrady trade-offs for either magicka or stamina builds. And that is how it should be.

The point that you refuse to understand is that stamina builds already use one resource for offense and defense. Challenge me on that all you want, I'm waiting.

What I'm suggesting is a buff to magicka Templar and DKs and god knows they need it.

Yeah dodge and block. Plus break free which is biggest stamina drainer. They have that at least. And sprint, stealth etc. There are more factors for stamina builds than magicka

Maulkin

Soris_ESO wrote: »

Making blazing shield scale off magicka will bring you OPlar with UNLIMITED amounts of 10k shield and 5k hits each. Like pre 1.6 but now it will be literally unlimited as I siad with extreme magicka regen and cost reductions since you dont have to care 2 different pools unlike 1.5

They can reduce the damage to 35% of the shield value when they make the change to scale off Magicka if that's problem.

It's absolutely nuts to me that you consider it ok that a stamina build with 20k HP and a magicka build with 20k HP get the same benefit (and same damage in this case) from a magical ward. When the stamina build already gets better mitigation and evasion bonuses.

Wards are the primary defense of magicka builds. They are in fact THE ONLY defence of magicka builds. Armor and evasion are the defense of stamina builds.

There's a reason why magicka DD Templars are not viable buddy. And having to make silly compromises while stamina builds don't is one of them

Lhorion

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

I can't see your point at all. I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one

yep