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Update on Cyrodiil Performance

ZOS_PaulSage
ZOS_PaulSage
✭✭✭✭
Hello everyone,

Our Cyrodiil performance is something we are very aware of. Performance drags when there are numerous players in the same place at the same time. This is why performance in Cyrodiil is fine for much of the day, but gets worse during more popular times. We are currently investigating ways in which we can reduce the spike of performance loss. We added in some features for Update 6 which we hoped would help, but ultimately did not. This is not a situation where we can just add more hardware. Player population in a given area hurts the performance and the more people that are in one area, the more performance is going to be hurt.

Actively, we are looking at changing the behavior of the players to remove incentives for large groups to stay in the same area. We want to do this by providing larger incentives for Alliances to split up and take on multiple-challenges in Cyrodiil. We’ll continue to work on this. We are also asked by players if there is anything they can do to help. In this situation, the best thing you can do is split off to different objectives when you notice performance going down. Cyrodiil is a big place with lots of different things to do. And thank you for asking.
Staff Post
  • Beldorr
    Beldorr
    ✭✭✭
    Does this mean we are going to lose our crossed swords on the map to stop people from going to the area looking for fights? :wink:
  • tinythinker
    tinythinker
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    ✭✭✭✭
    I feel ZOS you would have more success with PvP if you did away with PvP servers and just made one Cyrodiil and split it into 3-4 different maps and increased their size. If you connected those maps in a way that required certain objectives were needed to open up the Imperial city, it would spread the player population around better than what you have in place now. The way this games PvP structure is set up with "servers" it will always have performance issues.

    I like this, as it would also create more room for the kind of new Cyrodiil content and achievements I've been hoping to see.

    Fifth anniversary year for ESO - share your best memories! :-)

    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    "Light and darkness?

    "Whose light? The muted, sterile glow of Coldharbor? The ominous, deep shades pulsing like menacing glares in the depths of the Ashpit? The jarring kaleidoscope of the Shivering Isles?

    "Whose darkness? The shade cast by Mara's robes as she watches over her children? The cloak of Stendarr covering those in dire peril? The occult pathways of Arkay? Light and darkness, indeed."
  • Xabien
    Xabien
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    So basically our battles should never look like this?

    https://youtu.be/MQFxE4AESn4?t=50s

    Apparently not, but that's what their marketing still promises.
    ∽∽∽ 2 years of Elder Scrolls Online ∼∼∼
    "Give us money" = Box sales & monthly sub fees,
    "moar!" = £10 palomino horse,
    "MOAR!" = Switch to B2P, launch cash shop,
    "MOAR!!" = Charge for DLC that subs had already paid for,
    "MOAR!!!" = Experience scrolls and riding lessons,
    "MOARR!!!" = Vampire/werewolf bites,
    "MOAARRR!!!" = CS exclusive motifs,
    "MOOAARRR!!!" = Crown crates,
    "MOOOAAARRR!!!" = ????

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
  • JTorus
    JTorus
    ✭✭✭✭
    Xabien wrote: »
    So basically our battles should never look like this?

    https://youtu.be/MQFxE4AESn4?t=50s

    Apparently not, but that's what their marketing still promises.

    The difference between that video and what goes on in Thorn, is the amount of spammed abilities. We've all been there, stacked on the flag, mountains of abilities going off and nothing happening. I do not think they anticipated that type of play style.

    You know what does work though? While everyone's spamming talons, bats, atronachs and heals use a light attack. Try it. Next time there's that big push for a flag, tab target someone and light attack them. Goes right through.
  • Xnemesis
    Xnemesis
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    I think that Macros assigned to individual buttons that fire off combos of abilities, weapon attacks, animation canceling, and weapon swaps might be to blame. I know of players who will macro an ability then a reg attack, a weapon swap, a buff, and then another weapon swap all into one key press, and this all gets achieved in very quick succession. Not to mention when this specific button is mashed 3 or so times every second it starts to compound upon itself.... Now imagine 50 players doing this all in one location.... starting to see the issue? This is only one of many concerns I have. The lack of PvP content is also troubling, keep flipping, emp flipping, and some balance issues were among my greatest concerns. I haven't played 1.6 yet and I am not sure if I will so I apologize if these issues have already been addressed.
  • umagon
    umagon
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    Not a hardware issue makes me think the back end server code is not 64 bit.
  • frozywozy
    frozywozy
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    frozywozy wrote: »
    Hello everyone,

    Our Cyrodiil performance is something we are very aware of. Performance drags when there are numerous players in the same place at the same time. This is why performance in Cyrodiil is fine for much of the day, but gets worse during more popular times. We are currently investigating ways in which we can reduce the spike of performance loss. We added in some features for Update 6 which we hoped would help, but ultimately did not. This is not a situation where we can just add more hardware. Player population in a given area hurts the performance and the more people that are in one area, the more performance is going to be hurt.

    Actively, we are looking at changing the behavior of the players to remove incentives for large groups to stay in the same area. We want to do this by providing larger incentives for Alliances to split up and take on multiple-challenges in Cyrodiil. We’ll continue to work on this. We are also asked by players if there is anything they can do to help. In this situation, the best thing you can do is split off to different objectives when you notice performance going down. Cyrodiil is a big place with lots of different things to do. And thank you for asking.

    Thank you for the update Paul, very appreciated.

    As some people mentionned in this thread, I though that the first objective of Cyrodiil was to introduce large scale PvP. I understand that this could be only a temporary solution to try to split people appart while you guys figure out a better way to solve performance issues, but I don't think this is going in the right direction anyway.

    I think that engineers spent more than enough time to try to figure out the way to fix the performance issues in Cyrodiil. It is now time to accept that it isn't going to get better and try to focus on different aspects of PvP that could bring alot of customers / subscribers back.

    Yes, I am indeed reffering to Arenas and Battleground. Those small scales instances of PvP would be perfect to suite the desire of battle of many folks and would be lag free.

    Before you lose even more players, I think it is time to start considering small scale instances of PvP and spend more time developping those than you spend to fix performance issues in Cyrodiil. I think most will agree that we waited long enough.

    That is a bad idea. To have them abandon world PvP to cater to instance PvP is just bad. If I want to play swtor I would go back to it.

    Phoenix Rising has been playing on Haderus/Chillrend the past 4 months and many times have had locked pops across the board and amazingly enough without much "performance" issues. The problem with Thornblade is the people on that server. Until they spread the population out like it is supposed to work, that server will always have performance issues. I have hundreds of videos I will gladly load of up of epic large battles over the past 4 months, so dont try to pull the "people dont play on other servers" card or "the best PvPers are on Thornblade" because all those are, are excuses.

    They need to develop instance PvP alongside open world PvP, not pick one over the other.

    Not sure how you associate Arenas and Battlegrounds with strictly one game. Arenas and Battlegrounds have been part of most known mmos for almost a decade, nothing specific to SWTOR.

    Also, I didn't say to ABANDON large scale PvP (Cyrodiil), I suggested to spend more time developping small scale PvP because it's been prouven that it would be lag free and would interest probably thousands of players.

    I like your idea to to increase the size of Cyrodiil and to split the map in 3-4 different zones (servers) to increase performances. That would help for sure and personally I would rather have to wait for a loading screen when traveling between two zones rather than enduring the poor latency we've been going through.

    Edited by frozywozy on March 13, 2015 4:50PM
    Frozn - Stamdk - AR50
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    In the end.. EP WINS!!!
    • Change emperorship to value faction score points and not alliance points - see this and this
    • Fix the permanent block animation - see examples : link1 link2 link3 link4 link5
    • Change Retreating Maneuvers to apply only to 12 players and give it the Streak treatment
    • Add 2 more quickslots to the wheel or add a different wheel for sieges weaponry only
    • Gives players 10 minutes to get back into Cyrodiil after relogging / crashing
    • Increase Forward Momentum snare immunity duration to 8 seconds
    • Assign specific group sizes to specific campaigns (24-16-8)
    • Make forward camps impossible to place near objectives
    • Add an escape move to templars other than mist form
    • Fix crashes when approaching a keep under attack
    • Make snares only available from ground effects
    • Change emperorship to last minimum 24hours
    • Fix body sliding after cc breaking too quickly
    • Fix the speed drop while jumping - see video
    • Bring back dynamic ulti regeneration
    • Fix speed bug (abilities locked)
    • Lower population cap by 20%
    • Add Snare Immunity potions
    • Wtb dynamic population
    • Fix long loading screens
    • Bring ResSickness
    • Fix gap closer bug
    • Fix health desync
    • Fix combat bug
    • Fix server lag
  • Darlgon
    Darlgon
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    Our guild constantly fights 24 man raids VS 40-60 players. While we can accumulate AP, pretty much with those numbers, we (most of the time) eventually get overwhelmed, sometimes after 1-2 hour keep fights. Basically, the only way to fight a zerg of 2-3 raids is to have two or more raids. What part of this is being missed? Getting more points on the scoreboard, for keeps you cant keep, is useless when you have one bar vs a cap locked Alliance.
    Edited by Darlgon on March 13, 2015 4:46PM
    Power level to CP160 in a week:
    Where is the end game? You just played it.
    Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
    Where is new content? Sigh.
  • Xupacabra
    Xupacabra
    ✭✭✭
    The new meteor damage spam, is making the lag that we also know from bomb groups, this time players dont need be all toghether to spam meteors, there is always that unplayable lag when meteor spam begins, just like bomb groups skill spaming. 10vs 10 spaming this is enought to make lag unplayable so dont start lock sonner even more the campaigns plz.
    Chupacabra with rage @ EU server AD faction Thornblade home
  • Robbmrp
    Robbmrp
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    Hello everyone,

    Our Cyrodiil performance is something we are very aware of. Performance drags when there are numerous players in the same place at the same time. This is why performance in Cyrodiil is fine for much of the day, but gets worse during more popular times. We are currently investigating ways in which we can reduce the spike of performance loss. We added in some features for Update 6 which we hoped would help, but ultimately did not. This is not a situation where we can just add more hardware. Player population in a given area hurts the performance and the more people that are in one area, the more performance is going to be hurt.

    Actively, we are looking at changing the behavior of the players to remove incentives for large groups to stay in the same area. We want to do this by providing larger incentives for Alliances to split up and take on multiple-challenges in Cyrodiil. We’ll continue to work on this. We are also asked by players if there is anything they can do to help. In this situation, the best thing you can do is split off to different objectives when you notice performance going down. Cyrodiil is a big place with lots of different things to do. And thank you for asking.

    So why not add in Arena battles then. This will help to reduce the Cyrodil population while giving players more PVP options. Or better yet, why not open up all zones to world pvp making it possible for people to pvp anywhere. Or just part of zones.

    Also, maybe it's time to start thinking about more than just two servers EU and NA. With larger populations coming into the game if you doubled the existing servers that would help spread out people to help with lag. If you don't have the hardware capacity to resolve the issue this may be the only viable option at some point.
    NA Server - Kildair
  • Darklord_Tiberius
    Darklord_Tiberius
    ✭✭✭✭
    frozywozy wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    Hello everyone,

    Our Cyrodiil performance is something we are very aware of. Performance drags when there are numerous players in the same place at the same time. This is why performance in Cyrodiil is fine for much of the day, but gets worse during more popular times. We are currently investigating ways in which we can reduce the spike of performance loss. We added in some features for Update 6 which we hoped would help, but ultimately did not. This is not a situation where we can just add more hardware. Player population in a given area hurts the performance and the more people that are in one area, the more performance is going to be hurt.

    Actively, we are looking at changing the behavior of the players to remove incentives for large groups to stay in the same area. We want to do this by providing larger incentives for Alliances to split up and take on multiple-challenges in Cyrodiil. We’ll continue to work on this. We are also asked by players if there is anything they can do to help. In this situation, the best thing you can do is split off to different objectives when you notice performance going down. Cyrodiil is a big place with lots of different things to do. And thank you for asking.

    Thank you for the update Paul, very appreciated.

    As some people mentionned in this thread, I though that the first objective of Cyrodiil was to introduce large scale PvP. I understand that this could be only a temporary solution to try to split people appart while you guys figure out a better way to solve performance issues, but I don't think this is going in the right direction anyway.

    I think that engineers spent more than enough time to try to figure out the way to fix the performance issues in Cyrodiil. It is now time to accept that it isn't going to get better and try to focus on different aspects of PvP that could bring alot of customers / subscribers back.

    Yes, I am indeed reffering to Arenas and Battleground. Those small scales instances of PvP would be perfect to suite the desire of battle of many folks and would be lag free.

    Before you lose even more players, I think it is time to start considering small scale instances of PvP and spend more time developping those than you spend to fix performance issues in Cyrodiil. I think most will agree that we waited long enough.

    That is a bad idea. To have them abandon world PvP to cater to instance PvP is just bad. If I want to play swtor I would go back to it.

    Phoenix Rising has been playing on Haderus/Chillrend the past 4 months and many times have had locked pops across the board and amazingly enough without much "performance" issues. The problem with Thornblade is the people on that server. Until they spread the population out like it is supposed to work, that server will always have performance issues. I have hundreds of videos I will gladly load of up of epic large battles over the past 4 months, so dont try to pull the "people dont play on other servers" card or "the best PvPers are on Thornblade" because all those are, are excuses.

    They need to develop instance PvP alongside open world PvP, not pick one over the other.

    Not sure how you associate Arenas and Battlegrounds with strictly one game. Arenas and Battlegrounds have been part of most known mmos for almost a decade, nothing specific to SWTOR.

    Also, I didn't say to ABANDON large scale PvP (Cyrodiil), I suggested to spend more time developping small scale PvP because it's been prouven that it would be lag free and would interest probably thousands of players.

    Guessing you never played swtor, so you obviously do not understand my reference.

    You posted,

    "I think that engineers spent more than enough time to try to figure out the way to fix the performance issues in Cyrodiil. It is now time to accept that it isn't going to get better and try to focus on different aspects of PvP that could bring alot of customers / subscribers back."

    That all but screams abandon Cyrodiil and focus on Instance PvP. If that was not your intention, may I suggest word choice next time.
    Lord Commander
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    "Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men."
  • HeroOfNone
    HeroOfNone
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    give smaller scale structured pvp. Maybe you don't like the lore premise or the wall of text, but if the server is lagging cause there are 200+ people in an area, then make a pvp mode where a map can only allow 72, or 36, or 12, etc.
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