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Suggestion (PVP 4x4 - 24x24x24 Battlegrounds) ESO Arenas; Be a Daedric or Aedric Champion
HeroOfNone
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Introduction
A lot of us have been wanting to see a battlegrounds like PVP arena in ESO for a while. There has been a lot of debate on how to implement it while balancing it, reducing exploiting, making it Lore friendly and making it fit into our current alliance war system. Today's suggestion may be a bit wordy, but I'll do my best to segment out the parts so you speed readers can skim through. Keep in mind this is a working suggestion, things can change based on feedback, feasibility, and other ideas that arise. Hopefully this will be the snowball at the top of the hill to get things moving.
Objective (AKA Why am I here?)
A Daedric Prince/Aedric Lord's blessing (AKA The Blessed and the Chosen)
Rewards (AKA I want my SWAG!!)
The Battle Types (AKA what are the rules?)
Examples of some Theme Arenas (AKA how would this look?)
Points & Leaderboards (AKA Do I need to hide my report card?)
How to Help (AKA Oh great he's asking us to do something)
Let me say that simply agreeing, awesoming, or replying "I want this!" Helps a lot to give visibility. If you want to help a bit more...
Conclusion (AKA HE'S FINALLY DONE)
Well, I'm not quite done, but this is a long post and I think I need to give folks a breather to give feedback and help fill in some of the gaps. If you like the idea if arenas tied to a Daedric worship line, feel free to like or awesome this post. If you want to suggest new battle types, theme arenas, or Swag then by all means please put a reply in. My head hurts trying to think of all the possibilities. If you feel there is going to be issues with this and feel there needs to be more restrictions or changes I am always willing to hear it, just keep in mind this is a rough architecture, details are not set in stone and it's being done to help push the idea of smaller scale PVP along. If you totally hate the idea of smaller scale or structured PVP like this then probably just hit the LOL button, because our opinions and ideologies probably won't match.
Thanks to the folks that took the time read through this, regardless if you replied!
Thread Movement
Edits
Edited by HeroOfNone on March 19, 2015 6:06PM A lot of us have been wanting to see a battlegrounds like PVP arena in ESO for a while. There has been a lot of debate on how to implement it while balancing it, reducing exploiting, making it Lore friendly and making it fit into our current alliance war system. Today's suggestion may be a bit wordy, but I'll do my best to segment out the parts so you speed readers can skim through. Keep in mind this is a working suggestion, things can change based on feedback, feasibility, and other ideas that arise. Hopefully this will be the snowball at the top of the hill to get things moving.
Objective (AKA Why am I here?)
Player wise, the main reason for this suggestion is to implement some structured small to large scale battles of player verses player. Some of these can be large, 24v24v24 (72) instances, down to as small as 4v4 (8). These are sort of similar to "Battlgrounds" in WoW, but would have different mechanics, themes, and would not be on a separate PVP loot table. This is something a lot of us were looking from the start of the game and we've heard "we're considering it" time and time again during ESO live updates.
Character wise, you're a champion for your Daedric Prince/Aedric Lord, trying to win their favor. Each Lord has its reasons to want you to succeed as their champion, most of which centers around power struggles and hatred of each other. Even Molag Bal, your main antagonist in the story, would favor you with his blessing for raising brutality and carnage in his name in several of these battle grounds and entertaining him.
Character wise, you're a champion for your Daedric Prince/Aedric Lord, trying to win their favor. Each Lord has its reasons to want you to succeed as their champion, most of which centers around power struggles and hatred of each other. Even Molag Bal, your main antagonist in the story, would favor you with his blessing for raising brutality and carnage in his name in several of these battle grounds and entertaining him.
A Daedric Prince/Aedric Lord's blessing (AKA The Blessed and the Chosen)
Let’s discuss the blessings, since they are a major reason to compete in this. Borrowing a bit from a prior suggestion on deity skill lines These battle grounds will introduce a new world skill line for any Daedric Prince/Aedric Lord you worship. You can only worship one at a time, and renouncing them will reduce your progress in the skill tree to zero, but will allow you to change to another.
You can level these blessings for just participating in these fights. If you win your fights the leveling will be much quicker however. Each deity has its own skill line with unique passive and ability line that you can put points in.
Some of these passives can include things like
While you can build influence in this line, different top level abilities are only available if you're top of the leaderboards. I imagine several different "battlegrounds" out there with their own individual leaderboards, so there will be room to dominate at least one of them, however like trials there is an entire server to compete against, unlike campaigns where one or two guilds might farm a campaign for a week. If you don't maintain your lead the ability could be rendered useless until you raise your skills up again.
Some of these abilities may be ultimates like may be things like:
* - the abilities are more or less SUGGESTIONS at this point, and would still need to be balanced with the game. These may also only apply inside the arenas themselves or in Daedric areas, so that it balances the player base if this was released as a DLC. Please don't start arguing about the mechanics of such abilities just yet, please keep an open mind.
ALTERNATIVE
The skill line passives is generic to a group of deities (the 9 divines, tribunal, yhe hist, khajiit lines, etc.) But champion abilities would still be unique. (ZombieMarkTwain@TF)
Example Daedric Skill line(AKA How over Powered is this?)
You can level these blessings for just participating in these fights. If you win your fights the leveling will be much quicker however. Each deity has its own skill line with unique passive and ability line that you can put points in.
Some of these passives can include things like
Hircine passives to speed up your werewolf transformation time*
Peryite helps you do more damage while diseased*
Stendarr helps shield you from Daedra and Undead.*
Peryite helps you do more damage while diseased*
Stendarr helps shield you from Daedra and Undead.*
While you can build influence in this line, different top level abilities are only available if you're top of the leaderboards. I imagine several different "battlegrounds" out there with their own individual leaderboards, so there will be room to dominate at least one of them, however like trials there is an entire server to compete against, unlike campaigns where one or two guilds might farm a campaign for a week. If you don't maintain your lead the ability could be rendered useless until you raise your skills up again.
Some of these abilities may be ultimates like may be things like:
Stendarr's repulsion, that disables any Daedric or undead abilities in its range. *
Mara's Union, which joins any overflow healing to one member to other party members for its duration.*
Sheogorath's weirdening - casts an AOE where all affected have all stamina abilities take magicka and all magicka abilities take stamina*
Mara's Union, which joins any overflow healing to one member to other party members for its duration.*
Sheogorath's weirdening - casts an AOE where all affected have all stamina abilities take magicka and all magicka abilities take stamina*
* - the abilities are more or less SUGGESTIONS at this point, and would still need to be balanced with the game. These may also only apply inside the arenas themselves or in Daedric areas, so that it balances the player base if this was released as a DLC. Please don't start arguing about the mechanics of such abilities just yet, please keep an open mind.
ALTERNATIVE
The skill line passives is generic to a group of deities (the 9 divines, tribunal, yhe hist, khajiit lines, etc.) But champion abilities would still be unique. (ZombieMarkTwain@TF)
Keep in mind this is in no way balanced, just an example. there were a couple other posts like this one and this one that started suggestions for skill lines, but as I see it you should have 4 passives (1 locked unless on leaderboards), 3 abilities (1 locked unless on leader boards), and an ultimate (locked unless on the top of leaderboards).
Peryite skill line
Passive 1: healing done while under the effects of disease are increased by 15%/30%, 2 skill levels
passive 2: damage increased by 20% when diseased
passive 3:
Passive 4 (leaderboards locked): cause x disease damage ever light or heavy melee hit
Skill 1: gain a damage shield against magicka while also getting diseased.
Morph 1: damage shield as plies to 1 teammate.
Morph 2: damage shield portion lasts longer
Skill 2: sacrifice x health for x stamina morph, unable to selfheal for y time.
Morph 1: no selfheal time is reduced
Morph 2: take less health.
Skill 3 (leaderboards locked): disease cloud, deal x disease damage in an AOE around you.
Morph 1: extra fire damage included.
Morph 2: take back health for each infected
Ultimate (leader board locked): take on all debuffs from teammates.
Morph 1: apply and debuffs to enemies as well in the area.
Morph 2: heal you self x for each debuff taken
Peryite skill line
Passive 1: healing done while under the effects of disease are increased by 15%/30%, 2 skill levels
passive 2: damage increased by 20% when diseased
passive 3:
Passive 4 (leaderboards locked): cause x disease damage ever light or heavy melee hit
Skill 1: gain a damage shield against magicka while also getting diseased.
Morph 1: damage shield as plies to 1 teammate.
Morph 2: damage shield portion lasts longer
Skill 2: sacrifice x health for x stamina morph, unable to selfheal for y time.
Morph 1: no selfheal time is reduced
Morph 2: take less health.
Skill 3 (leaderboards locked): disease cloud, deal x disease damage in an AOE around you.
Morph 1: extra fire damage included.
Morph 2: take back health for each infected
Ultimate (leader board locked): take on all debuffs from teammates.
Morph 1: apply and debuffs to enemies as well in the area.
Morph 2: heal you self x for each debuff taken
Rewards (AKA I want my SWAG!!)
First, I don't see AP being earned through these battle grounds. This is separate from the alliance war and would not have the same impact on it. However, there is still purpose to it:
1. Influence with your Daedric Prince/Aedric Lords - Again, you want to build up your skill line you need to fight, and fight, and fight! in their name. Getting to the top of the leaderboards is your ultimate goal, so don't give up!
2. Experience - For killing enemy players you will get experience like any other PVP area
3. Gold - You will receive gold for killing enemy players in battle grounds in most cases, though the reward may not be as high as PVP and some of your winnings depend if you win the match. Gold would be sent at the end of the round, regardless of if you stayed the entire match.
4. Crafting material and lootables - given the change with the justice system, this will be one of the ways you can find various crafting materials from crates, barrels, and harvest nodes, as a reward for winning the match. The harvest nodes would be the equivalent to a crafting survey of a single type. These items are only lootable though IF you win
5. Gear sets - for participating to the end of a match you will get a daily quest completion. I envision this will be similar to the undaunted sets, where you get a bronze, silver, or gold key and can open a chest from your Daedric Prince/Aedric Lord's area. Gold keys that give "Super Swag Gear" will be available every 20 hours per quest. If you choose to you can get lesser rewards repeatable if you win, or bronze keys if you participate and lose. Corresponding "Super Swag Gear" sets will also come from winning the match and looting chests previously locked around the battle ground.
6. Rare costumes - different vanity items will be available inside the crates, barrels, and vases around an arena
7. Daedric/Aedric styles - different Motifs items will be available inside the crates, barrels, and vases around an arena. These Motifs will give the ability to make different motifs pages that will morph to your Daedric Prince/Aedric Lord's style.
1. Influence with your Daedric Prince/Aedric Lords - Again, you want to build up your skill line you need to fight, and fight, and fight! in their name. Getting to the top of the leaderboards is your ultimate goal, so don't give up!
2. Experience - For killing enemy players you will get experience like any other PVP area
3. Gold - You will receive gold for killing enemy players in battle grounds in most cases, though the reward may not be as high as PVP and some of your winnings depend if you win the match. Gold would be sent at the end of the round, regardless of if you stayed the entire match.
4. Crafting material and lootables - given the change with the justice system, this will be one of the ways you can find various crafting materials from crates, barrels, and harvest nodes, as a reward for winning the match. The harvest nodes would be the equivalent to a crafting survey of a single type. These items are only lootable though IF you win
5. Gear sets - for participating to the end of a match you will get a daily quest completion. I envision this will be similar to the undaunted sets, where you get a bronze, silver, or gold key and can open a chest from your Daedric Prince/Aedric Lord's area. Gold keys that give "Super Swag Gear" will be available every 20 hours per quest. If you choose to you can get lesser rewards repeatable if you win, or bronze keys if you participate and lose. Corresponding "Super Swag Gear" sets will also come from winning the match and looting chests previously locked around the battle ground.
6. Rare costumes - different vanity items will be available inside the crates, barrels, and vases around an arena
7. Daedric/Aedric styles - different Motifs items will be available inside the crates, barrels, and vases around an arena. These Motifs will give the ability to make different motifs pages that will morph to your Daedric Prince/Aedric Lord's style.
The Battle Types (AKA what are the rules?)
There are a few primary battle types I envision
1. Team death match swap - 4v4 matches on different Daedric islands with points going to teams with the most kills and fewest deaths. To keep things interesting however, the actual rounds are 40 player matches. Each time a team is wiped from an island, they are teleported away to another and face a different team of 4, constantly rotating from one to another. Resurrecting with soul gems is allowed, however it will detract from your score. Though if the person that was killed is killed again, they won't add to the other teams score. This should help keep folks from "gaming" the system and give folks with different builds a different combo to go against. Winners would be the top 3 or 4
2. Capture the flag/reverse capture the flag - this involves taking thing 'x' to point 'y' and not getting killed before you make it. The scaling for this can typically range from 8v8 to 24v24v24, however with larger scale maps I'd recommend adding in 2 flags, forcing teams to be cleaver about how they split their resources. Points in this type of match would be gore killing other players, however the biggest way to earn points would be capturing the flag or killing a carrier.
3. Generals and soldiers (or VIP) - this type involves a "general" that the team votes on or the game tiebreaks and decides randomly that is given boosted stats, possible special abilities, and is a bit tougher than most. Both sides have a general of some kind and it's up to either side to find a way to go in and destroy them. Generals will typically have weaknesses, like being unable to move fast, not able to regenerate health normally, or other weaknesses to offset their strengths. Points are rewarded for killing players, more for killing a general, and the most for claiming the general's body.
4. Boss Rush - This is for larger groups with 8v8, 12v12, and 24v24 battles where your groups need to split between a PVE fight and a PVP battle for different control points. Similar to Alterac Valley in WoW, a series of bosses need to be killed along either side of an island to take over your side in order to take over. Boss fights are locked down when started, players teleporting into a main arena to handle several mid bosses and final bosses equivalent to a dungeon or trial boss, however other PVPers can sneak in and influence the battle using different siege equipment, traps, and triggers that will cause difficulty in the arena. Teams opposing the PVP force can either choose to turtle and keep their side alive, rush all the bosses to make it difficult for the PVPers to catch up, or go into an outright brawl. several advantages will be given to folks fighting on their home turf, but remember the objective is still to kill the last boss, and if you waste all your lives trying to kill one another or rushing in you may not have the numbers to achieve it.
5. King of the Hill - a series of flags/capture points that will start out as neutral. Capturing them will require that you and your teammates stand on a flag and wait for it to be captured by NPC guards arriving. If you die you can spawn back at any prior flag. Now here are some of the kickers. A flag can be neutralized by any player, however they cannot capture it if a connecting flag is not captured. You will receive notices if it's under attack and will be allowed to teleporting back to it up to a certain point, but it will be important to watch the field. In addition, NPC guards needed to secure a point have to reach a location before they can summon more to the through a portal. So these guards can be killed along the way, requiring an escort while someone holds a flag. Points are given for killing guards on their way to a point, by killing guards on the flag, killing enemy players, neutralizing areas, and by capturing areas. Game play may end on certain points if a major spot is captures or if a team captures all control locations on a map.
Note - each of these battle types are simply core mechanics, other conditions can apply to suit the Arena's theme.
1. Team death match swap - 4v4 matches on different Daedric islands with points going to teams with the most kills and fewest deaths. To keep things interesting however, the actual rounds are 40 player matches. Each time a team is wiped from an island, they are teleported away to another and face a different team of 4, constantly rotating from one to another. Resurrecting with soul gems is allowed, however it will detract from your score. Though if the person that was killed is killed again, they won't add to the other teams score. This should help keep folks from "gaming" the system and give folks with different builds a different combo to go against. Winners would be the top 3 or 4
2. Capture the flag/reverse capture the flag - this involves taking thing 'x' to point 'y' and not getting killed before you make it. The scaling for this can typically range from 8v8 to 24v24v24, however with larger scale maps I'd recommend adding in 2 flags, forcing teams to be cleaver about how they split their resources. Points in this type of match would be gore killing other players, however the biggest way to earn points would be capturing the flag or killing a carrier.
3. Generals and soldiers (or VIP) - this type involves a "general" that the team votes on or the game tiebreaks and decides randomly that is given boosted stats, possible special abilities, and is a bit tougher than most. Both sides have a general of some kind and it's up to either side to find a way to go in and destroy them. Generals will typically have weaknesses, like being unable to move fast, not able to regenerate health normally, or other weaknesses to offset their strengths. Points are rewarded for killing players, more for killing a general, and the most for claiming the general's body.
4. Boss Rush - This is for larger groups with 8v8, 12v12, and 24v24 battles where your groups need to split between a PVE fight and a PVP battle for different control points. Similar to Alterac Valley in WoW, a series of bosses need to be killed along either side of an island to take over your side in order to take over. Boss fights are locked down when started, players teleporting into a main arena to handle several mid bosses and final bosses equivalent to a dungeon or trial boss, however other PVPers can sneak in and influence the battle using different siege equipment, traps, and triggers that will cause difficulty in the arena. Teams opposing the PVP force can either choose to turtle and keep their side alive, rush all the bosses to make it difficult for the PVPers to catch up, or go into an outright brawl. several advantages will be given to folks fighting on their home turf, but remember the objective is still to kill the last boss, and if you waste all your lives trying to kill one another or rushing in you may not have the numbers to achieve it.
5. King of the Hill - a series of flags/capture points that will start out as neutral. Capturing them will require that you and your teammates stand on a flag and wait for it to be captured by NPC guards arriving. If you die you can spawn back at any prior flag. Now here are some of the kickers. A flag can be neutralized by any player, however they cannot capture it if a connecting flag is not captured. You will receive notices if it's under attack and will be allowed to teleporting back to it up to a certain point, but it will be important to watch the field. In addition, NPC guards needed to secure a point have to reach a location before they can summon more to the through a portal. So these guards can be killed along the way, requiring an escort while someone holds a flag. Points are given for killing guards on their way to a point, by killing guards on the flag, killing enemy players, neutralizing areas, and by capturing areas. Game play may end on certain points if a major spot is captures or if a team captures all control locations on a map.
Note - each of these battle types are simply core mechanics, other conditions can apply to suit the Arena's theme.
Examples of some Theme Arenas (AKA how would this look?)
Hircine's Realm - modeled after the lore, this hunt has two modes. Thanks for the folks in stream for giving me this idea (apologies for not remembering the names of everyone x.x)
1. The Clash (generals and soldiers) - This is a 12v12v12 (up to 24v24v24) fight in a Daedric forest realm. Each team has one member they will dictate as their champion, who will then be given the option of transforming into a werewolf, wereboar, werebear, or werecrocodile for the round and receive boosts in stats equivalent to an emperor. The goal of this match is to stalk and kill the other team’s werebeast. Points are earned by killing other players, killing their beast, having a beast eat a corpse, or skinning a downed werebeast. If killed in this players can release to a way shrine with a small recovery period or they can wait to be ressed with soul gems.
2. The Hunt (mini boss rush) - this is a 4v4v4 (up to 8) fight where one NPC werebeast is released into the arena. This boss can see through invisibility, feeds off the players it kills, feeds off wildlife in the area, and has some nasty abilities. They do not however, regenerate health, and can have their health chipped away at. Given its wild nature, taunts are flaky with this boss, and they can bream it to go after something else or to recover. Points are awarded by killing other players, doing damage to the beast, or getting the killing blow. Respawns are different here as well, where if you're not resurrected with a soul gem you can find yourself locked in a cage on a set timer or until your team mate rescues you, to give more weight toward staying alive.
Nocturnal's Realm - a realm of darkness and stealth
1. Revealing light (reverse capture the flag) - in a dark cavernous expanse, teams are shrouded in darkness and are given bonuses to their sneak, critical, and penetration. Players however must take a shining beacon from their base to the other and place it on their brazed to "light up" their area, reducing their benefit in that area. The player carrying a beacon will have a large glowing area around them similar to a siege shield ability. This will give them a huge bonus against stealth, ranged, and an immunity to knockdowns while holding it. Other teammates in the area will also take less damage from ranged attack. This area though prevents players from going into stealth, and the carrier will be very slow. You get points for killing players, killing carriers, for lighting a brazier, and for helping it be lit.
2. concealing shadows (King of the kill) - on a seemingly tropical island you must create darkness to creep inside. Each capture point you capture will give the effect of a dark miasma, enhancing defenders stealth radius, damage, and reducing the cost to stealth. The objective is to capture each point on the island or score the most in the time given.
Sheogorath's Realm - a place of cheese, lettuce, and madness
1. Sheogorath's mansion (Team death match swap) - In this players are exploring one of Sheogorath's homes, forced to fight one another each time the enter a new room. Random effects, traps, and enemies can show up, adding more madness to the chaotic battles. At the end of each battle winning teams can loot crates, barrels, and drawers for loot, but it will not be as great as the final prize room. After each small battle is done teams will be able to stay or exit a door which will take them to a new room, or they will be able to respawn in a new room.
2. Sheogorath's Field - I could easily see the Sheogorath arena be a ballgame field (aka SWTOR Huttball or Warhammer BloodBowl). He does like to play out of the box, and dropping the contestants into a actual game might just seem crazy enough for him... (Patchgrabber)
Verminias Realm
1. Verminias nightmare labyrinth collection - many paths, many dream-thingies to pick up for the final score, many traps and obstacles in the labyrinth, possibly a few NPC mobs too on occasion, and an enemy team coming im from the other side. And the question - split up to grab more dream thingies before the other team can get to them, or stay together to win the inevitable fights...(Patchgrabber)
1. The Clash (generals and soldiers) - This is a 12v12v12 (up to 24v24v24) fight in a Daedric forest realm. Each team has one member they will dictate as their champion, who will then be given the option of transforming into a werewolf, wereboar, werebear, or werecrocodile for the round and receive boosts in stats equivalent to an emperor. The goal of this match is to stalk and kill the other team’s werebeast. Points are earned by killing other players, killing their beast, having a beast eat a corpse, or skinning a downed werebeast. If killed in this players can release to a way shrine with a small recovery period or they can wait to be ressed with soul gems.
2. The Hunt (mini boss rush) - this is a 4v4v4 (up to 8) fight where one NPC werebeast is released into the arena. This boss can see through invisibility, feeds off the players it kills, feeds off wildlife in the area, and has some nasty abilities. They do not however, regenerate health, and can have their health chipped away at. Given its wild nature, taunts are flaky with this boss, and they can bream it to go after something else or to recover. Points are awarded by killing other players, doing damage to the beast, or getting the killing blow. Respawns are different here as well, where if you're not resurrected with a soul gem you can find yourself locked in a cage on a set timer or until your team mate rescues you, to give more weight toward staying alive.
Nocturnal's Realm - a realm of darkness and stealth
1. Revealing light (reverse capture the flag) - in a dark cavernous expanse, teams are shrouded in darkness and are given bonuses to their sneak, critical, and penetration. Players however must take a shining beacon from their base to the other and place it on their brazed to "light up" their area, reducing their benefit in that area. The player carrying a beacon will have a large glowing area around them similar to a siege shield ability. This will give them a huge bonus against stealth, ranged, and an immunity to knockdowns while holding it. Other teammates in the area will also take less damage from ranged attack. This area though prevents players from going into stealth, and the carrier will be very slow. You get points for killing players, killing carriers, for lighting a brazier, and for helping it be lit.
2. concealing shadows (King of the kill) - on a seemingly tropical island you must create darkness to creep inside. Each capture point you capture will give the effect of a dark miasma, enhancing defenders stealth radius, damage, and reducing the cost to stealth. The objective is to capture each point on the island or score the most in the time given.
Sheogorath's Realm - a place of cheese, lettuce, and madness
1. Sheogorath's mansion (Team death match swap) - In this players are exploring one of Sheogorath's homes, forced to fight one another each time the enter a new room. Random effects, traps, and enemies can show up, adding more madness to the chaotic battles. At the end of each battle winning teams can loot crates, barrels, and drawers for loot, but it will not be as great as the final prize room. After each small battle is done teams will be able to stay or exit a door which will take them to a new room, or they will be able to respawn in a new room.
2. Sheogorath's Field - I could easily see the Sheogorath arena be a ballgame field (aka SWTOR Huttball or Warhammer BloodBowl). He does like to play out of the box, and dropping the contestants into a actual game might just seem crazy enough for him... (Patchgrabber)
Verminias Realm
1. Verminias nightmare labyrinth collection - many paths, many dream-thingies to pick up for the final score, many traps and obstacles in the labyrinth, possibly a few NPC mobs too on occasion, and an enemy team coming im from the other side. And the question - split up to grab more dream thingies before the other team can get to them, or stay together to win the inevitable fights...(Patchgrabber)
Points & Leaderboards (AKA Do I need to hide my report card?)
Now we talked about leader boards, which are going to be point based and connected in with the points you get. Similar to trials leaderboards though, folks tied with points will share their rank. Points will be awarded per matches won to the team and for what was awarded when you joined. What this means:
A 24 man group runs Hircine's Hunt and wins with 50 points, everyone in that group, from the healer to the tank and DPS, will get 50 points if they stayed in the entire match. Half way through the match however, Player A dropped (rage quit) the match and after 5 minutes Player B joined in when the team only had 20 points. Player A will get no points, but will receive consolation gold for the players he killed and still gets the EXP. Player B will get 30 points, to reflect his contribution.
This might *** off some people with bad connections that drop the match, but you drop and don't reconnect or leave, you're not going to get all the spoils. This is done to prevent folks throwing the match and to encourage folks to stick it out till the end.
Now, at the end of the week, we're going to have leader boards for the different matches, however doing a standard "top 10" like we have in Cyrodiil or top "100" in trials doesn't seem to suit group size you're looking at. So, based on the size of the group an Arena is hosting, the "top" number will change.
4vX - top 20
8vX - top 40
12vX - top 50
24vX - top 100
If players are tied at the bottom points system, then they will qualify for being in the "top position" until a score comes up to knock them out.
To qualify for the top position of a given week you will have to play in at least 3 matches.
Now the one thing that I've debated with others on is if the buff should be immediately given and taken away based on the current week's leaderboards or if it should be given for a week for last week's position. I'll leave that up to you folks to debate
ALTERNATIVE
leaderboards are still used to give rewards, however yo get specialized abilities you will need to be at the top of your deity's leaderboards to be their "champion" (Shunravi)
A 24 man group runs Hircine's Hunt and wins with 50 points, everyone in that group, from the healer to the tank and DPS, will get 50 points if they stayed in the entire match. Half way through the match however, Player A dropped (rage quit) the match and after 5 minutes Player B joined in when the team only had 20 points. Player A will get no points, but will receive consolation gold for the players he killed and still gets the EXP. Player B will get 30 points, to reflect his contribution.
This might *** off some people with bad connections that drop the match, but you drop and don't reconnect or leave, you're not going to get all the spoils. This is done to prevent folks throwing the match and to encourage folks to stick it out till the end.
Now, at the end of the week, we're going to have leader boards for the different matches, however doing a standard "top 10" like we have in Cyrodiil or top "100" in trials doesn't seem to suit group size you're looking at. So, based on the size of the group an Arena is hosting, the "top" number will change.
4vX - top 20
8vX - top 40
12vX - top 50
24vX - top 100
If players are tied at the bottom points system, then they will qualify for being in the "top position" until a score comes up to knock them out.
To qualify for the top position of a given week you will have to play in at least 3 matches.
Now the one thing that I've debated with others on is if the buff should be immediately given and taken away based on the current week's leaderboards or if it should be given for a week for last week's position. I'll leave that up to you folks to debate
ALTERNATIVE
leaderboards are still used to give rewards, however yo get specialized abilities you will need to be at the top of your deity's leaderboards to be their "champion" (Shunravi)
How to Help (AKA Oh great he's asking us to do something)
Let me say that simply agreeing, awesoming, or replying "I want this!" Helps a lot to give visibility. If you want to help a bit more...
This is a BIG suggestion, and really I'm only covering the core framework of it, not so much the details. Most of the stuff here is only balanced at a cursory glance, I'm certain that there will be folks to find ways to exploit it or to get upset about something. So I could use your replies to let ZOS know what you like, hate, and how to get into some of the details of this.
Daedric Prince/Aedric Lord's Blessing
- What skill lines can you see for your different Lords?
- Do you think that the skill lines should only work in a Daedric Realm?
Rewards
- Is this too little to make you want to play?
- Is this too much loot to make you not want to play other parts of ESO?
Battle Types
- What other Battle Types would you like to see?
- Is there something that needs to be balanced in the current Battle Types?
Theme Arenas
- Do you like the current theme arena examples?
- What other theme arenas would you want to fight in?
Points & Leader boards
- Do you feel good with the points being rewarded at the end of the round and being based on the time you entered?
- Is a tiered approach to the size of the fights a good way to determine leaderboards?
- Should we instead separating leaderboards out with battle types, the arena, the Daedric realm, or something else?
- Should the top tier reward to use abilities be instant (like it is with emperor after keeps are captured) or should it be for the prior week (like with trials)?
- Should we have separate non veteran rank leaderboards and arenas?
Casual Vs Hardcore
- Is there enough draw in here to entice casuals and new players in to try their luck?
- Is there enough reward and bragging rights here to entertain a hardcore PVPer?
Grouping
- Should this be cross faction?
- should we allow only random player queuing or allow premade groups to enter?
General
- do you like, sort of like, fear, or hate this idea?
Daedric Prince/Aedric Lord's Blessing
- What skill lines can you see for your different Lords?
- Do you think that the skill lines should only work in a Daedric Realm?
Rewards
- Is this too little to make you want to play?
- Is this too much loot to make you not want to play other parts of ESO?
Battle Types
- What other Battle Types would you like to see?
- Is there something that needs to be balanced in the current Battle Types?
Theme Arenas
- Do you like the current theme arena examples?
- What other theme arenas would you want to fight in?
Points & Leader boards
- Do you feel good with the points being rewarded at the end of the round and being based on the time you entered?
- Is a tiered approach to the size of the fights a good way to determine leaderboards?
- Should we instead separating leaderboards out with battle types, the arena, the Daedric realm, or something else?
- Should the top tier reward to use abilities be instant (like it is with emperor after keeps are captured) or should it be for the prior week (like with trials)?
- Should we have separate non veteran rank leaderboards and arenas?
Casual Vs Hardcore
- Is there enough draw in here to entice casuals and new players in to try their luck?
- Is there enough reward and bragging rights here to entertain a hardcore PVPer?
Grouping
- Should this be cross faction?
- should we allow only random player queuing or allow premade groups to enter?
General
- do you like, sort of like, fear, or hate this idea?
Conclusion (AKA HE'S FINALLY DONE)
Well, I'm not quite done, but this is a long post and I think I need to give folks a breather to give feedback and help fill in some of the gaps. If you like the idea if arenas tied to a Daedric worship line, feel free to like or awesome this post. If you want to suggest new battle types, theme arenas, or Swag then by all means please put a reply in. My head hurts trying to think of all the possibilities. If you feel there is going to be issues with this and feel there needs to be more restrictions or changes I am always willing to hear it, just keep in mind this is a rough architecture, details are not set in stone and it's being done to help push the idea of smaller scale PVP along. If you totally hate the idea of smaller scale or structured PVP like this then probably just hit the LOL button, because our opinions and ideologies probably won't match.
Thanks to the folks that took the time read through this, regardless if you replied!
Thread Movement
I plan to start this thread in the alliance war forums to get the opinion of some seasoned ESO PVPers. After a week it should be on the general forums and the a week after on the feedback & Suggestions forum, just to give it exposure to folks.
Edits
2/12/2015
- title change
- edit area added, will try to add in other suggestions as feedback comes in.
- alternative diety skill lines combined
- 2 other arena ideas
- alternative leaderboards
2/17/2015
- moved to the general users forum.
- title change
- edit area added, will try to add in other suggestions as feedback comes in.
- alternative diety skill lines combined
- 2 other arena ideas
- alternative leaderboards
2/17/2015
- moved to the general users forum.
55
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Deltia✭✭✭✭✭Awesome work on this man.In-game @deltiasgaming | deltiasgaming.com for Elder Scrolls Online [ESO / TESO] Guides
"It's a good day to be alive"5 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've always been fine with Arena style PvP added to ESO and see no VALID reason for ZoS not to add them. I understand the complaint of exclusive Gear/Achievements but that already exists in game via Trials and current PvP. Or what about those who don't care about Crafting or Fishing and are mad they can't have those Achievements or Dyes, etc. Like I said no VALID argument against it.5 -
JavaWhoDatSoul ShrivenHero you rock love this ideal and it does fit into the lore remember "Arena" Bludy Brilliant4
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Sypher✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I love it.
Full support.DC Dragonknight 'Sypher - AD Nightblade Sypher Ali - AD Sorcerer Sypher Sensei - EP Sorcerer Sypharian - DC Templar Ali Sypher
Youtube: www.youtube.com/SypherPK
Twitch: www.twitch.tv/SypherPK7 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I like it!
Lets get the ball rolling on this!This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!3 -
A great idea that should be given consideration only adds good things to the game the Daedric/Adetox worship skill lines sound amazing. @ZOS_BrianWheelerBy Hircine's hand i mark thee!1 -
Arenas perhaps, but not Daedra/Aedra skill lines. Aedra have never granted that many boons to a mortal, nor could they. Their limited power comes in the form of temporary blessings and objects of power like Chim-el Adabal. Daedra rarely give that much power to a mortal either, vampires and werewolves would be the only exceptions. The most I'd be ok with would be a small boon that you would see on your character screen.1
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Kromus✭✭✭Yes, please! At this point any kind of diversity in pvp is better then none, and your proposal is well rounded.Edited by Kromus on February 11, 2015 11:54AM1 -
HeroOfNone✭✭✭✭✭
✭Patchgrabber wrote: »Arenas perhaps, but not Daedra/Aedra skill lines. Aedra have never granted that many boons to a mortal, nor could they. Their limited power comes in the form of temporary blessings and objects of power like Chim-el Adabal. Daedra rarely give that much power to a mortal either, vampires and werewolves would be the only exceptions. The most I'd be ok with would be a small boon that you would see on your character screen.
Saw you reply on Reddit as well with this. in response though:Certain Daedric Princes and Aedric Lords may not be powerful enough in other games and on the plane of Nirn. As I mentioned in the skill line though, these skills may only be use able on the planes of oblivion, which can act also as a balance so these skills won't affect the alliance war.
The Aedria and Daedra though have been known to give boons and skills to mortals before, this is just an extension of that power in and effort for them to battle each other. Also keep in mind the top level buffs would only be for a choosen few.
Should also be noted we're in a different era, things may not work as expected from previous (or in lore, FUTURE) games.Edited by HeroOfNone on February 11, 2015 2:40PM1 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Patchgrabber wrote: »Arenas perhaps, but not Daedra/Aedra skill lines. Aedra have never granted that many boons to a mortal, nor could they. Their limited power comes in the form of temporary blessings and objects of power like Chim-el Adabal. Daedra rarely give that much power to a mortal either, vampires and werewolves would be the only exceptions. The most I'd be ok with would be a small boon that you would see on your character screen.
A very valid concern. And one I can get behind. However, there are things that merit concideration in the context of both this post and the game.
*In the OP, it is suggested that these skill lines could only be used within the battlegrounds themselves. Do you still object if the skills are confined in such a way? Even if permanent within these select settings, they are still limited and essentially temporary if you access the rest of the game
*For Daedric influence at least; what is your opinion on the state of things with the breach of Alessia's pact, the planemeld, and the Soulburst in general? I am personally under the opinion that this whole situation is a precursor for a return of greater Daedric influences in nirn. As the game is an mmo, I would think that they would want to focus future dlc and expansions around these threats. Would it really be much of a stretch to have the Daedric lords exercise some influence in Mundus by choosing champions from the strongest of their followers? And then would it be too much of a stretch to have the Aedra respond in kind by pulling out some unusual stops and responding in kind?
*In the OP, it is suggested that these skills are limited and can loose their effectiveness if not maintained. This actually supports your argument of the limited nature of Aedric influence IMO, and it keeps things competitive.
*Both Aedric and Daedric influence is often seen through artifacts. What if the mcguffins that make all this possible were artifacts that you accept when you choose to follow that entity? You pick it up from the followers at the shrine you visit to pledge your loyalty. Would that work in your opinion? (Keep in mind the current chaos.)Edited by Shunravi on February 11, 2015 3:30PMThis one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!2 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I do have some concerns about potentially gaming the system, and/or certain battlegrounds becoming stagnant. They would potentially be either the favorite battlegrounds, and hence locked down by the best groups, or the least favorite and never really used at all.
What if each Aedra/Daedra line had its own ranking? And what if they made the battlegrounds rotational by limiting the ammount of influence gained per each per week?
This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
HeroOfNone✭✭✭✭✭
✭What if each Aedra/Daedra line had its own ranking? And what if they made the battlegrounds rotational by limiting the ammount of influence gained per each per week?
May work, you'd at least have someone with the Aedra/Daedra's abilities out there, but are folk going to be alright if everyone stacks on say, Akatosh, and it's an extremely hard grind to become their champion verse say... Mara, that only a handful chose? Though, I guess it's a bit like arguing about buff servers and serious pvp servers.1 -
Lord_Draevan✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why would you want to serve any other Daedric Prince but Sheogorath?
Sheogorath Ultimate: Cheese deluge, AoE attack or something like that :disagree:I'm a man of few words. Any questions?NA/PC server0 -
HeroOfNone✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lord_Draevan wrote: »Why would you want to serve any other Daedric Prince but Sheogorath?
Sheogorath Ultimate: Cheese deluge, AoE attack or something like that :disagree:
I thought the suggestion for:Sheogorath's weirdening - casts an AOE where all affected have all stamina abilities take magicka and all magicka abilities take stamina.
Would be a little more unique and in line =30 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lord_Draevan wrote: »Why would you want to serve any other Daedric Prince but Sheogorath?
Sheogorath Ultimate: Cheese deluge, AoE attack or something like that :disagree:
Well, they should at least be given the option to choose less desirable patrons...
Active: voice of Sheogorath. Fear and disorient. Turns enemy armor into cabbage for a shot duration.This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!1 -
HeroOfNone✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lord_Draevan wrote: »Why would you want to serve any other Daedric Prince but Sheogorath?
Sheogorath Ultimate: Cheese deluge, AoE attack or something like that :disagree:
Well, they should at least be given the option to choose less desirable patrons...
Active: voice of Sheogorath. Fear and disorient. Turns enemy armor into cabbage for a shot duration.
As a note, again, suggestions are not necessarily balanced
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TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
If this was done along those lines, unlocking it unly after the mainstory is done would avoid a problem with Molag Bal... before the end of the main questline, he is an antagonist who would not be likely to hurt himself and his chances of success by helping the player character in any way, giving them any boon. AFTER the main story however, he is defeated and his plan in shambles anyways, which would be the prefect time to court the one who brought this about in hoping on having them in -his- camp the next time around...heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »Objective (AKA Why am I here?)
-snip-
Personally I think this is a great idea! A skill line, not all representing special skills/passives the worshipped power gives, but also special skills their worshippers pay special attention to in order to better worship. So followers of spider-happy mehpala might gain some poison resistance to help with those love bites, etc.heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »A Daedric Prince/Aedric Lord's blessing (AKA The Blessed and the Chosen)
-snip-
I think for format, it would be best to be done somewhat between the vampire skill line and the armor skill lines - a set of passives, one or two main skills, and maybe an ultimate ability... or maybe not, it would be viable to keep that out of normal "worshippers" hands and only for those who go a step beyond by changing their very nature.
Also, thse skill lines definitely ought to be exclusive with vampire or werewolf... werewolves are kinda already in hircines camp (just play their initial joining quest) while vampires kinda explicitely are opposed to both aedra and deadra (again, explained in their joining quest)
And the abilities should unlock with skill line progress, not be tied to leaderboards and exclusive to a few hardcore PvPers, but available to anyone who spends enough time in advancing their choosen powers fame (though naturally the ones good in those fights will get them much sooner). I never liked that about the emperor either... though I can see in cyrodil campaigns it at least makes some sense since taking those down is a special achievement.
AP -could- be earned in battlegrounds. It would make things easier with less resources to keep track of.heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »Rewards (AKA I want my SWAG!!)
-snip-
Then those AP could be spent in any way, in Cyrodil on the usual gear, or...
...with an special vendor that is "faith"-specific, and will sell stuff with special meaning to that particular brand of worship.
(V12/14 Salvation set for Hircines werewolf vendor? Stuff like that?)
The key ideas are neat too, as would be extra special rewards... personally I'd like to see it all, AP for everyone who participates, a special vendor to spend them on themed gear, -and- extra-special rewards in either key or drops for those who do especially well...
Yes! Stuff like that! Possibly keep it at some set length and complexity, not everyone has the time for too long battles...heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »The Battle Types (AKA what are the rules?)
Examples of some Theme Arenas (AKA how would this look?)
-snip-
Though type of battle and arena is too closeley interconnected to keep them apart methinks, one should fit the other (there after all are more then enough powers here for making lots of choices)
And there are more ideas to stea... uhm... I mean, get inspired by, in other games...
I could easily see the Sheogorath arena be a ballgame field (aka SWTOR Huttball or Warhammer BloodBowl). He does like to play out of the box, and dropping the contestants into a actual game might just seem crazy enough for him...
Or Verminias nightmare labyrinth collection - many paths, many dream-thingies to pick up for the final score, many traps and obstacles in the labyrinth, possibly a few NPC mobs too on occasion, and an enemy team coming im from the other side. And the question - split up to grab more dream thingies before the other team can get to them, or stay together to win the inevitable fights...
Path to Duel (could fit a number of honorable fighter type dieties) - a series of interconnected large rooms/floating rock platforms, which only one player per side can enter. When two meet, the rooms lock in a "thunderdome" way (two come in, one goes out)... but you'll never know who of the other side you might meet. Respawn and mix it up until one side attains a certain number of victories in single combat... (possibly with special effects in some rooms, giving advantage or disadvantage at random to some playstyles. Mud floor making movement slow and charges inaccessible, favoring rnaged fighters? Fog reducing visual range, favoring melee fighters? Icy area halfing all fire damage? Or perhaps a complete negata magic field? Curse the luck of the draw, or praise it, it all depends on your character build...)
I'd love to see a skill&passives line for every divine, deadric lord and other diety. But they definitely should work everywhere...heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »How to Help (AKA Oh great he's asking us to do something)
Daedric Prince/Aedric Lord's Blessing
- What skill lines can you see for your different Lords?
- Do you think that the skill lines should only work in a Daedric Realm?
Here's another thought - these skill lines could also be advanced through daily quests specific to your choosen power. That was those who dislike PvP can still gain the skill lines, and advance then, although rather slowly compared to those who grab days woth of quests winning multiple battlegrounds...
Crafting stuff, costumes and motiv books may not be all that great - crafting stuff should drop from crafting write, not battlegrounds, costumes they likely will wnat to sell in the crown store, and extra new motivs... take a lot of effort to make for the game I would think, and thus they'll keep those for the usual gameplay.heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »Rewards
- Is this too little to make you want to play?
- Is this too much loot to make you not want to play other parts of ESO?
As long as the "normal" rewards (experience, gold and/or possibly AP) are on par with PvP/questing, it would be good enough... (especially AP, sometimes its kinda hard to earn those in cyrodil when your campaigns are overrun by the other sides and you don't have enough AP to switch... battlegrounds would be perfect to take up that slack I would think...)
Like I mentioned, battle type and arena should be tailored to each other. And I expect there to be a lot of playtesting needed before this is balanced out... but it'd be worth it. One choice for each power, possibly even with giving players following that particular power a special "home field" advantage...heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »Battle Types
- What other Battle Types would you like to see?
- Is there something that needs to be balanced in the current Battle Types?
Theme Arenas
- Do you like the current theme arena examples?
- What other theme arenas would you want to fight in?
I like points per time spent and none for quitters.heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »Points & Leader boards
- Do you feel good with the points being rewarded at the end of the round and being based on the time you entered?
- Is a tiered approach to the size of the fights a good way to determine leaderboards?
- Should we instead separating leaderboards out with battle types, the arena, the Daedric realm, or something else?
- Should the top tier reward to use abilities be instant (like it is with emperor after keeps are captured) or should it be for the prior week (like with trials)?
- Should we have separate non veteran rank leaderboards and arenas?
I'd also say, keep it simple to avoid having too many leaderboards...
And don't make abilities reward-tied in the first place (hmmm, though maybe give out a consumable for some effect instead... in which case, instant reward, stockpile until needed)
And I for one would have the whole system post-mainstory anyways.
Always possible to make two types of battlegrounds, normal and veteran. The former more balanced for casual players, the latter hardcore mode with better rewards to draw the elite...heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »Casual Vs Hardcore
- Is there enough draw in here to entice casuals and new players in to try their luck?
- Is there enough reward and bragging rights here to entertain a hardcore PVPer?
Within fraction, other fractions as enemies, that makes for more sense I would think. "Who can claim stendarrs favor for their alliance this day?"heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »Grouping
- Should this be cross faction?
- should we allow only random player queuing or allow premade groups to enter?
And definitely premade groups, though they will likely dominate... but you have to allow players to go into this with their friends at their side...
All togteher, a neat set of ideas. Let's hope in due time, something will come of them!1 -
Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'd be 100% behind arenas . Paul Sage however said it wasn't a direction they wanted to take in a recent interview and had zero plans for this . Disappointing .3 -
HeroOfNone✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
If this was done along those lines, unlocking it unly after the mainstory is done would avoid a problem with Molag Bal... before the end of the main questline, he is an antagonist who would not be likely to hurt himself and his chances of success by helping the player character in any way, giving them any boon. AFTER the main story however, he is defeated and his plan in shambles anyways, which would be the prefect time to court the one who brought this about in hoping on having them in -his- camp the next time around...heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »Objective (AKA Why am I here?)
-snip-
Personally I think this is a great idea! A skill line, not all representing special skills/passives the worshipped power gives, but also special skills their worshippers pay special attention to in order to better worship. So followers of spider-happy mehpala might gain some poison resistance to help with those love bites, etc.heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »A Daedric Prince/Aedric Lord's blessing (AKA The Blessed and the Chosen)
-snip-
I think for format, it would be best to be done somewhat between the vampire skill line and the armor skill lines - a set of passives, one or two main skills, and maybe an ultimate ability... or maybe not, it would be viable to keep that out of normal "worshippers" hands and only for those who go a step beyond by changing their very nature.
Also, thse skill lines definitely ought to be exclusive with vampire or werewolf... werewolves are kinda already in hircines camp (just play their initial joining quest) while vampires kinda explicitely are opposed to both aedra and deadra (again, explained in their joining quest)
And the abilities should unlock with skill line progress, not be tied to leaderboards and exclusive to a few hardcore PvPers, but available to anyone who spends enough time in advancing their choosen powers fame (though naturally the ones good in those fights will get them much sooner). I never liked that about the emperor either... though I can see in cyrodil campaigns it at least makes some sense since taking those down is a special achievement.
The reason I was going for around 4 skills and 5-6 passives was that part of it would be locked out till you became top of the charts. would it be better to give less or lock it all our unless someone achieves the champion status, like emperors do?TheShadowScout wrote: »
AP -could- be earned in battlegrounds. It would make things easier with less resources to keep track of.heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »Rewards (AKA I want my SWAG!!)
-snip-
Then those AP could be spent in any way, in Cyrodil on the usual gear, or...
...with an special vendor that is "faith"-specific, and will sell stuff with special meaning to that particular brand of worship.
(V12/14 Salvation set for Hircines werewolf vendor? Stuff like that?)
The key ideas are neat too, as would be extra special rewards... personally I'd like to see it all, AP for everyone who participates, a special vendor to spend them on themed gear, -and- extra-special rewards in either key or drops for those who do especially well...
AP gain outside the campaign I was specific on for a couple reasons.
1. There would be no single campaign assigned
2. If we're allowing cross faction groups then you're not fighting for you Alliance for points
3. If they released this as dlc folks would immediately cry foul that they can't participate in a way to get AP faster than others.
AP is a strange curency and leveling curency that has a whole host of issues around it, hence why I was hoping the reward was good enough not to require them.TheShadowScout wrote: »
Yes! Stuff like that! Possibly keep it at some set length and complexity, not everyone has the time for too long battles...heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »The Battle Types (AKA what are the rules?)
Examples of some Theme Arenas (AKA how would this look?)
-snip-
Though type of battle and arena is too closeley interconnected to keep them apart methinks, one should fit the other (there after all are more then enough powers here for making lots of choices)
And there are more ideas to stea... uhm... I mean, get inspired by, in other games...
I could easily see the Sheogorath arena be a ballgame field (aka SWTOR Huttball or Warhammer BloodBowl). He does like to play out of the box, and dropping the contestants into a actual game might just seem crazy enough for him...
Or Verminias nightmare labyrinth collection - many paths, many dream-thingies to pick up for the final score, many traps and obstacles in the labyrinth, possibly a few NPC mobs too on occasion, and an enemy team coming im from the other side. And the question - split up to grab more dream thingies before the other team can get to them, or stay together to win the inevitable fights...
Path to Duel (could fit a number of honorable fighter type dieties) - a series of interconnected large rooms/floating rock platforms, which only one player per side can enter. When two meet, the rooms lock in a "thunderdome" way (two come in, one goes out)... but you'll never know who of the other side you might meet. Respawn and mix it up until one side attains a certain number of victories in single combat... (possibly with special effects in some rooms, giving advantage or disadvantage at random to some playstyles. Mud floor making movement slow and charges inaccessible, favoring rnaged fighters? Fog reducing visual range, favoring melee fighters? Icy area halfing all fire damage? Or perhaps a complete negata magic field? Curse the luck of the draw, or praise it, it all depends on your character build...)
I know a lot of folks want dueling, however I side stepped this issue. Problem is see is a single player may not be balanced against all others in this rock paper sissies game. A DK has high sustainability, Templars have high heals, nightblades are masters of stealth, Sorcs are great with magicka management. This means that one of each may make a great build that defeats 1 or 2 of the others but not the 3rd, who gets destroyed by the other 2. some folks bypass this with special builds or skill, but it can be frustrating to a lot.
The 4v4 matches were the best way I could see to balance this, where a balanced group could take on one of each class and adjust as needed, so this rock/paper/sissies game is less obvious and skill takes priority.
Another consideration was class class duels, but then some would *** about low level gear.
I envisioned a quest to at least join or change dieties, but giving PVE progress to it would undermine the pvp aspects and possibly pissed off some hardcore gamers with more care bear options. Not catering to one group mind you, but trying to appeal to a large base.TheShadowScout wrote: »
I'd love to see a skill&passives line for every divine, deadric lord and other diety. But they definitely should work everywhere...heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »How to Help (AKA Oh great he's asking us to do something)
Daedric Prince/Aedric Lord's Blessing
- What skill lines can you see for your different Lords?
- Do you think that the skill lines should only work in a Daedric Realm?
Here's another thought - these skill lines could also be advanced through daily quests specific to your choosen power. That was those who dislike PvP can still gain the skill lines, and advance then, although rather slowly compared to those who grab days woth of quests winning multiple battlegrounds...
As discussed in the replies I'd be on the fence for all abilities working every where. Even current PVP passives only work in Cyrodiil. If this is DLC and folks get a skill line from that, they will probably think it's an unfair advantage to use it in trials or PVP.TheShadowScout wrote: »
Crafting stuff, costumes and motiv books may not be all that great - crafting stuff should drop from crafting write, not battlegrounds, costumes they likely will wnat to sell in the crown store, and extra new motivs... take a lot of effort to make for the game I would think, and thus they'll keep those for the usual gameplay.heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »Rewards
- Is this too little to make you want to play?
- Is this too much loot to make you not want to play other parts of ESO?
As long as the "normal" rewards (experience, gold and/or possibly AP) are on par with PvP/questing, it would be good enough... (especially AP, sometimes its kinda hard to earn those in cyrodil when your campaigns are overrun by the other sides and you don't have enough AP to switch... battlegrounds would be perfect to take up that slack I would think...)
The "on par" part can be an issue for some I think. Say the focus is the gear, so you get less exp and gold cause your given a high chance for that, will people have an issue? Probably, regardless of droprate.TheShadowScout wrote: »
Like I mentioned, battle type and arena should be tailored to each other. And I expect there to be a lot of playtesting needed before this is balanced out... but it'd be worth it. One choice for each power, possibly even with giving players following that particular power a special "home field" advantage...heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »Battle Types
- What other Battle Types would you like to see?
- Is there something that needs to be balanced in the current Battle Types?
Theme Arenas
- Do you like the current theme arena examples?
- What other theme arenas would you want to fight in?
I like points per time spent and none for quitters.heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »Points & Leader boards
- Do you feel good with the points being rewarded at the end of the round and being based on the time you entered?
- Is a tiered approach to the size of the fights a good way to determine leaderboards?
- Should we instead separating leaderboards out with battle types, the arena, the Daedric realm, or something else?
- Should the top tier reward to use abilities be instant (like it is with emperor after keeps are captured) or should it be for the prior week (like with trials)?
- Should we have separate non veteran rank leaderboards and arenas?
I'd also say, keep it simple to avoid having too many leaderboards...
And don't make abilities reward-tied in the first place (hmmm, though maybe give out a consumable for some effect instead... in which case, instant reward, stockpile until needed)
And I for one would have the whole system post-mainstory anyways.
Always possible to make two types of battlegrounds, normal and veteran. The former more balanced for casual players, the latter hardcore mode with better rewards to draw the elite...heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »Casual Vs Hardcore
- Is there enough draw in here to entice casuals and new players in to try their luck?
- Is there enough reward and bragging rights here to entertain a hardcore PVPer?
Within fraction, other fractions as enemies, that makes for more sense I would think. "Who can claim stendarrs favor for their alliance this day?"heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »Grouping
- Should this be cross faction?
- should we allow only random player queuing or allow premade groups to enter?
And definitely premade groups, though they will likely dominate... but you have to allow players to go into this with their friends at their side...
All togteher, a neat set of ideas. Let's hope in due time, something will come of them!
Thanks for the test of the feedback!Edited by HeroOfNone on February 11, 2015 7:57PM0 -
HeroOfNone✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd be 100% behind arenas . Paul Sage however said it wasn't a direction they wanted to take in a recent interview and had zero plans for this . Disappointing .
I saw that, sort of what prompted this post. Folks want small scale structured pvp but there are few suggestions I've seen that had adequate structure to fit into the current game, theme, continued player involvement, or DLC structure. If even one part of this post gets this going I'm more than happy with that. Though I still feel getting the entire thing implemented would be awesome and have me playing for years to come.1 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Like I mentioned, I don't like this "keep the best skills for the best players" as it makes good people better, widening the gap between them and those less skilled, and making the not so good people feel like they won't ever have a chance, and thus stop even trying...heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »The reason I was going for around 4 skills and 5-6 passives was that part of it would be locked out till you became top of the charts. would it be better to give less or lock it all our unless someone achieves the champion status, like emperors do?
Better to give the leaderboard leaders some other reward then some special skill if this was done. Best would of course be something cosmetic they can show off (costume, title), but which won't give them an inneate advantage...
And any skills should come with continual gain, just faster for the good ones who gain more by winning more, but the less skilled ones should be able to get it all as well, if not as quick...
Well, for one I would not make battlegrounds cross-fraction, but leave them alliance vs alliance. Let people earn AP to for one give them more of a choice of venues for gaining them, and for another let them decide how to spend their battleground gains - either on buying better PvP gear (normal cyrodil vendors with AP), or the themed diety gear...heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »AP gain outside the campaign I was specific on for a couple reasons.
1. There would be no single campaign assigned
2. If we're allowing cross faction groups then you're not fighting for you Alliance for points
3. If they released this as dlc folks would immediately cry foul that they can't participate in a way to get AP faster than others.
AP is a strange curency and leveling curency that has a whole host of issues around it, hence why I was hoping the reward was good enough not to require them.
The game already has the currency, no sense not using it. And since the battlegrounds would be PvP, it would make sense to have then reward people in the currency that buys PvP gear to kit out their characters if they feel their prowess lacking...
As for people crying they can't gain more AP - all they'd have to do is get the DLC. Just like with all the game. Of course, if the game had battlegrounds, they coudl make it like other games - unlimited access to "plus" players, weekly limited (like, 3 BGs per week) for all others, weekly passes sold in the crown store.
Won't be balanced either way. If you go PUG, some will dominate as they get lucky with a good combination (I remember SWTOR 4×4 elimination warzones, and how often a group with healer got pitted against one without... never once saw the latter win this), and others will fail hard. If you allow premades (and if you don't, people will get vexed when they can't do this with their buddies), those will usually have the edge over PUGs.heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »I know a lot of folks want dueling, however I side stepped this issue. Problem is see is a single player may not be balanced against all others in this rock paper sissies game. A DK has high sustainability, Templars have high heals, nightblades are masters of stealth, Sorcs are great with magicka management. This means that one of each may make a great build that defeats 1 or 2 of the others but not the 3rd, who gets destroyed by the other 2. some folks bypass this with special builds or skill, but it can be frustrating to a lot.
The 4v4 matches were the best way I could see to balance this, where a balanced group could take on one of each class and adjust as needed, so this rock/paper/sissies game is less obvious and skill takes priority.
Another consideration was class class duels, but then some would *** about low level gear.
The idea was a single arena out of all the bunch that splits up groups into individual "honorable warrior stuff" duels, but does so randomly, so noone would ever know who&what they'd get to face. Yes, some builds (cough, DK, cough) will dominate. But that's always the case, isn't it? And they might have to face someone built to frustrate their usual tactics, as the draw goes... also, the final score is still counted total wins, so if one group has a masterkiller, and three rubs, they will still loose even if their champoin wins all his duels if the other three don't measure up... since unlike 4×4, fixed duels won't allow one power-player to finish "their" opponent and then go help their buddies wipe the floor with the other team...
Actually if you kept is PvP, it would mpiss off the ones disliking PvP. I was imagining it like one daily quest PvE, worth about the gains of one battleground... meaning those who only do that will -always- lag behind the serious PvPers who do three, four, six, ten or whatever many they can in the time they invest battlegrounds each day... -but- people who suck at PvP and/or hate it have an alternate, if slower, way to progress in this line.heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »I envisioned a quest to at least join or change dieties, but giving PVE progress to it would undermine the pvp aspects and possibly pissed off some hardcore gamers with more care bear options. Not catering to one group mind you, but trying to appeal to a large base.
As discussed in the replies I'd be on the fence for all abilities working every where. Even current PVP passives only work in Cyrodiil. If this is DLC and folks get a skill line from that, they will probably think it's an unfair advantage to use it in trials or PVP.
And actually, the current Cyrodil campaign boni work everywhere if I recall correctly - Its why often some sit on their "buff servers"... not sure about the skills though, those might be cyrodil only, never tried them outside yet.
But if you make this a "diety" skill line, it would be a total waste NOT to let it work everywhere, since it'd add soo much character flavor... the skills just would have to be balanced with what's already available. Which is why I mentioned having just one or two skills and some passives instead of a wide range. (which would take a lot more playtesting to balance)
All together, it needs to be a viable reward for time spent, or people won't do it. And it shouldn't be more then that, or some will complain rather loudly. Actually some will complain in any case, but if it favors people who do battlegrounds, some will cry "foul" with cause...heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »The "on par" part can be an issue for some I think. Say the focus is the gear, so you get less exp and gold cause your given a high chance for that, will people have an issue? Probably, regardless of droprate.
Of course, how that is divided up between the possible reward choices, gear, gold, AP, experience... finding the right balance is something that can be tweaked.0 -
HeroOfNone✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
Like I mentioned, I don't like this "keep the best skills for the best players" as it makes good people better, widening the gap between them and those less skilled, and making the not so good people feel like they won't ever have a chance, and thus stop even trying...heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »The reason I was going for around 4 skills and 5-6 passives was that part of it would be locked out till you became top of the charts. would it be better to give less or lock it all our unless someone achieves the champion status, like emperors do?
Better to give the leaderboard leaders some other reward then some special skill if this was done. Best would of course be something cosmetic they can show off (costume, title), but which won't give them an inneate advantage...
And any skills should come with continual gain, just faster for the good ones who gain more by winning more, but the less skilled ones should be able to get it all as well, if not as quick...
Some of these abilities may be difficult to overcome one on one, but groups should still balance groups. These are still limited, and your not being liked it an instance with a mini emperor. At the same time we're giving a hard to get skill line as a perpetual carrot and stick for the hard core players to have bragging rights, but not too strong that casuals can't hop in and get a kill. It's a difficult tightrope I'll admit but I think it will appeal to a wide base.TheShadowScout wrote: »
Well, for one I would not make battlegrounds cross-fraction, but leave them alliance vs alliance. Let people earn AP to for one give them more of a choice of venues for gaining them, and for another let them decide how to spend their battleground gains - either on buying better PvP gear (normal cyrodil vendors with AP), or the themed diety gear...heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »AP gain outside the campaign I was specific on for a couple reasons.
1. There would be no single campaign assigned
2. If we're allowing cross faction groups then you're not fighting for you Alliance for points
3. If they released this as dlc folks would immediately cry foul that they can't participate in a way to get AP faster than others.
AP is a strange curency and leveling curency that has a whole host of issues around it, hence why I was hoping the reward was good enough not to require them.
The game already has the currency, no sense not using it. And since the battlegrounds would be PvP, it would make sense to have then reward people in the currency that buys PvP gear to kit out their characters if they feel their prowess lacking...
As for people crying they can't gain more AP - all they'd have to do is get the DLC. Just like with all the game. Of course, if the game had battlegrounds, they coudl make it like other games - unlimited access to "plus" players, weekly limited (like, 3 BGs per week) for all others, weekly passes sold in the crown store.
Might be a differing of opinions, but removing the factions I think is a selling point for some. many want to fight everyone, not just the character you've leveled on one faction.
The buying of the gear was another thing I wanted to keep away from. If it goes for AP or gold then the current cyrodiil players will hop in, buy their gear, and hop out with barely touching an arena. Adding a token or currency system also tends to lead folks to farm it rather than focus on winning. Tying it to a win condition quest or drops for winning the match I feel will really get people to push to win.TheShadowScout wrote: »
Won't be balanced either way. If you go PUG, some will dominate as they get lucky with a good combination (I remember SWTOR 4×4 elimination warzones, and how often a group with healer got pitted against one without... never once saw the latter win this), and others will fail hard. If you allow premades (and if you don't, people will get vexed when they can't do this with their buddies), those will usually have the edge over PUGs.heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »I know a lot of folks want dueling, however I side stepped this issue. Problem is see is a single player may not be balanced against all others in this rock paper sissies game. A DK has high sustainability, Templars have high heals, nightblades are masters of stealth, Sorcs are great with magicka management. This means that one of each may make a great build that defeats 1 or 2 of the others but not the 3rd, who gets destroyed by the other 2. some folks bypass this with special builds or skill, but it can be frustrating to a lot.
The 4v4 matches were the best way I could see to balance this, where a balanced group could take on one of each class and adjust as needed, so this rock/paper/sissies game is less obvious and skill takes priority.
Another consideration was class class duels, but then some would *** about low level gear.
The idea was a single arena out of all the bunch that splits up groups into individual "honorable warrior stuff" duels, but does so randomly, so noone would ever know who&what they'd get to face. Yes, some builds (cough, DK, cough) will dominate. But that's always the case, isn't it? And they might have to face someone built to frustrate their usual tactics, as the draw goes... also, the final score is still counted total wins, so if one group has a masterkiller, and three rubs, they will still loose even if their champoin wins all his duels if the other three don't measure up... since unlike 4×4, fixed duels won't allow one power-player to finish "their" opponent and then go help their buddies wipe the floor with the other team...
Didn't expect 4v4 to be perfect, however with swap you'd have a series of battles against new opponents each time, so hopefully you try, lose, adjust, come back. If you meet a group that absolutely DOMINATES the arena your group still has others it can go against. If you keep losing because you have a poor healer or such, well, maybe they won't register next round. I never said everyone had to win with this system, but they have the opportunity.
As for duels, again, the lower the number the larger the gap in class. DKS are absolutely OP, and I simply can't see a way to make a dueling arena with that where prizes are on the line. Maybe if it was class v class, but then khajiit DKs would be bitching about dunmer DKs. I dunno, larger can of worms then I think this can handleTheShadowScout wrote: »
Actually if you kept is PvP, it would mpiss off the ones disliking PvP. I was imagining it like one daily quest PvE, worth about the gains of one battleground... meaning those who only do that will -always- lag behind the serious PvPers who do three, four, six, ten or whatever many they can in the time they invest battlegrounds each day... -but- people who suck at PvP and/or hate it have an alternate, if slower, way to progress in this line.heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »I envisioned a quest to at least join or change dieties, but giving PVE progress to it would undermine the pvp aspects and possibly pissed off some hardcore gamers with more care bear options. Not catering to one group mind you, but trying to appeal to a large base.
As discussed in the replies I'd be on the fence for all abilities working every where. Even current PVP passives only work in Cyrodiil. If this is DLC and folks get a skill line from that, they will probably think it's an unfair advantage to use it in trials or PVP.
And actually, the current Cyrodil campaign boni work everywhere if I recall correctly - Its why often some sit on their "buff servers"... not sure about the skills though, those might be cyrodil only, never tried them outside yet.
But if you make this a "diety" skill line, it would be a total waste NOT to let it work everywhere, since it'd add soo much character flavor... the skills just would have to be balanced with what's already available. Which is why I mentioned having just one or two skills and some passives instead of a wide range. (which would take a lot more playtesting to balance)
It is a balancing act I admit, but just as you need to build up assault or support lines to get good PVE skills like caltropes, rapid manuevers, war horn, efficient purge, and others you have to go in and participate in PVP. This may just be a difference in idealogies thoughTheShadowScout wrote: »
All together, it needs to be a viable reward for time spent, or people won't do it. And it shouldn't be more then that, or some will complain rather loudly. Actually some will complain in any case, but if it favors people who do battlegrounds, some will cry "foul" with cause...heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »The "on par" part can be an issue for some I think. Say the focus is the gear, so you get less exp and gold cause your given a high chance for that, will people have an issue? Probably, regardless of droprate.
Of course, how that is divided up between the possible reward choices, gear, gold, AP, experience... finding the right balance is something that can be tweaked.
Exactly, which is why I do look to see I'm not giving too much or little. Enough that folks want to come in, not enough to make it just a farm spot.0 -
HeroOfNone✭✭✭✭✭
✭Few thoughts made on the Tameril Foundry forums (since not everyone can get onto these forums)
Some have called for a simple arena, but as I have noticed a simple one could have been done by now if it was anywhere on ZOS's radar. The complexity of this suggestion is to address what I see as a much more complex problem. We need to make folks want to play it, have it semi balanced, not have it take away from our primary PVP area (cyrodiil), make sure it's not gamed/farmed, give progression, reward skilled players that put the time in, make it sellable in the crown store (to pay for development), and make it fun. Hopefully some of this hits that mark.
A suggestion to spectate, which I'm sure everyone will want to do, and possibly lead to a commentary series for me on twitch =3.
Finally an alternative to have skill lines lower passives and skills generic per a group of Aedra/Daedra (a line for the 8, the hist, the tribunal, the khajiit, etc) but keep the upper level "champion" skills devoted to a specific deity. This would simplify balancing a bit.Edited by HeroOfNone on February 12, 2015 3:17PM0 -
HeroOfNone✭✭✭✭✭
✭to go with the earlier suggestion on separate categories of Aedra/DaeraDaedric Princes (General)
Azura- The female Deity who maintains/draws power from the balance of night and day, light and dark
Boethiah- A Deity of deceit, secrecy, conspiracy, treason, and unlawful overthrow of authority
Clavicus Vile- A shape-shifter, who grants power and wishes through ritual invocations and pact
Hermaeus Mora- The formless Daedra of knowledge and memory, seeks to possess all that is knowable
Hircine- The Prince of the hunt, sport, the Great Game, and the Chase
Jyggalag- The Prince of logical order and deduction, upholds strict order above all else
Malacath- The Prince whose sphere is the patronage of the spurned and ostracized
Mehrunes Dagon- The Prince of destruction, violent upheaval, energy, and mortal ambition
Mephala- The Prince of unknown plots and obfuscation, a master manipulator, a sewer of discord
Meridia- A female Deity, the patron of the energies of all living things, enemy of the undead and all who disrupt the flow of life
Molag Bal- The Prince of domination and spiritual enslavement, seeks to ensnare souls within his domain
Namira- A female Deity of the "ancient darkness", the patron of all things considered repulsive
Nocturnal- A female Deity of the night and darkness, the patron of all things secretive
Peryite- The Taskmaster, the Daedric Prince of Pestilence, desires order in his domain
Sanguine- the Prince of hedonism, debauchery, and the further indulgences of one's darker nature
Sheogorath- The infamous Prince of Madness, whose motives are unknowable
Vaermina- A female Deity of dreams and nightmares, a deliverer of evil omens and dark portents
Aedra (General)
Aedra (Aedroth)
Akatosh
Anu
Arkay
Dibella
Et'Ada
Julianos
Kynareth
Kyne
Magna Ge
Magnus
Mara
Sai
Stendarr
Trinimac
Zenithar
If we try to categorize some of these into their different pantheons and racial dieties however, the list of deities grows much longerThe Nine Divines (before it was 9)
Akatosh- The Dragon God of Time and chief god of the pantheon
Arkay- God of Funerals & Burial Rites
Dibella- Goddess of Beauty and Sexual Desire
Julianos- God of Wisdom and Logic
Kynareth- Goddess of Nature, Wind, and the Sky
Mara- Mother-Goddess and Goddess of Love
Stendarr- God of Mercy and Justice
Talos/Tiber Septim- God of War and Governance (Note, Tiber Septim is born in this era, so wouldn't be in this list)
Zenithar- God of Work and Commerce
Imperial Pantheon
Akatosh
Arkay
Dibella
Julianos
Kynareth
Shezarr
Mara
Morihaus
Reman
Stendarr
Talos
Zenithar
Nordic Pantheon
Alduin
Dibella
Herma-Mora
Jhunal
Kyne
Maloch
Mara
Orkey
Stuhn
Shor
Talos
Ysmir
Altmeri Pantheon
Auri-El
Jephre
Lorkhan
Magnus
Mara
Phynaster
Stendarr
Syrabane
Trinimac
Xarxes
Xen
Bosmeri Pantheon
Arkay
Auri-El
Baan Dar
Herma-Mora
Ius
Jode
Jone
Lorkhan
Mara
Stendarr
Xarxes
Y'ffre
Z'en
Dunmeri Pantheon
Almalexia - Part of the Tribunal
Azura
Boethiah
Dagoth Ur
Lorkhan
Malacath
Mehrunes Dagon
Mephala
Molag Bal
Nerevar
Sheogorath
Sotha Sil - Part of the Tribunal
Vivec - Part of the Tribunal
Redguard Pantheon
Diagna
HoonDing
Ius
Leki
Malooc
Morwha
Onsi
Ruptga
Satakal
Sep
Tava
Tu'whacca
Zeht
Bretony Pantheon
Akatosh
Arkay
Dibella
Julianos
Kynareth
Magnus
Mara
Phynaster
Sheor
Stendarr
Y'ffre
Z'en
Khajiiti Pantheon
Alkosh
Azurah
Baan Dar
Hermorah
Hircine
Ius
Masser
Secunda
Ja-Kha'jay
Khenarthi
Lorkhaj
Mara
Merrunz
Mafala
Namiira
Rajhin
Riddle'Thar
Sangiin
Sheggorath
S'rendarr
Y'ffer
Kothri Pantheon
Clavicus Vile
Dibe
Mara
Kin
Z'en
given the amount of deities and overlap, leaving it to a Aedra/Daedra line might be easier than splitting it out across the several worships. a easier list to maintain:
Daedric Worship
Hircine
Mehrunes Dagon
Mephala
Molag Bal (or Boethiah if they want to keep him out for story reasons)
Nocturnal
Peryite
Sheogorath
Vaermina
Aedric Worship
Akatosh
Arkay
Dibella
Julianos
Kynareth
Mara
Stendarr
Zenithar
This would lead to possibly 16 top leader boards (Champions) and limit down the different skill trees to two different lines with-1 champion ultimate, 1 champion skill, 1 champion passive, 1-2 level able skills, 2-3 level able passives.1 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭First off, I absolutely LOVE the idea of having skill trees for Aedra/Daedra worship! This is one of those forehead slapping moments where you wonder why this already isn't in the game.
So… I’m going to take what you have here and just RUN with it, ok? lol
While my gut reaction is to suggest that there be a strong single-player quest line component I must admit that the multiplayer component to this concept is interesting. I do think worshiping should be a much broader concept within ESO. Having the skill-lines is a really clever way to decide on the Daedra/Aedra you are worshiping. I DO think, however, that players who are worshiping a Daedra/Aedra should be able to pray to that Daedra/Aedra OUTSIDE of this system within Nirn once per day and that prayer will give the praying player a 24 hour buff and all players within this arena type system a temporary, diminishing buff of… 2 minutes or so.
I also think the passives for the skill-line should be active while out in Nirn in PVE, in Cyrodiil or wherever. I like the idea of your active skills “unlocking” once you enter these arenas in the service of your chosen Daedra/Aedra.
Also, I think earned points should diminish over time in the order in which they are placed. So, if you stop “worshiping” you eventually lose the blessings and perks. Once all your points have weaned, you may choose to worship another Daedra/Aerdra with no ill effect. If you choose to abandon your Daedra/Aedra before all your points are gone and you worship another Daedra/Aedra, you become a Blasphemer and you are cursed with some sort of debuff. The only way to remove this debuff is to spend points to lessen, and eventually break the curse… making it harder to build up the next skill line.
The battle types could be geared a bit more toward lore and worship. This is just ‘window-dressing’ sure, but it would help these matches from feeling out of place in the ESO universe. Here are a few examples to get the ‘feel’ of what I’m talking about.
Team Death Match = Mass Sacrifice : One team worships a Daedric prince and are trying to sacrifice the other team. The team that is being sacrificed can be made up of any mixture of other worshipers and must fight for their life. In this, ALL players on the sacrificing team will be worshiping the same Daedric Prince. Certain Daedric Princes would never be the tribute Daedra of these matches, such as Azura and Meridia. The slaughtering players could be granted random special gifts by their Prince. Perhaps, if certain conditions are met, the princes themselves might intervene, but would they be there to collect their sacrifices or punish their followers for a pitiful display of devotion?
Capture the Flag = The Sigil Feud: Players are trying to open/close portals to their respective/the opposing Daedric Prince’s realm. In the middle of the map a sigil stone awaits, dormant. The sigil stone can be taken and carried by any player and can be hidden and protected in temples while it’s dormant. Players can kill those with the sigil and the sigil returns if it is not in someone’s possession for 5 seconds (basic Capture the Flag Stuff).- Daedric Worshipers: They must kill players of the opposing teams to fill their anchor pinion. Once the pinion is full, they can activate the pinion, opening their portal, and the Sigil Stone springs to life. Opposing teams must try to prevent the Sigil Stone from being brought through to the realm of Oblivion. Once a Daedric Oblivion portal is open, lesser Daedra pour through, aiding in the fight. The Sigil Stone must be in place in the Oblivion Plane for a certain amount of time for the portal to remain open (for the team to win). During this time players can steal the sigil stone and place it in their own Daedric Realm, if they’ve killed enough players to open it.
- Aedra Worshipers: Teams of Aedra worshipers will have temples in which they can store and hide the Sigil Stone. As the Aedra Worshipers kill the opposing teams the blessings on their temple increase and that team gains buffs and opposing teams get debuffs while in their temple. This is to balance the opposing gameplay of having additional creatures to fight while sieging an open oblivion gate. If the Aedra Worshipers are able to keep the Sigil Stone safe for a certain amount of time, their team wins.
- Each team would receive points for whatever they accomplished during the match. Matches always include at least one Daedric group and one Aedric group and can include up to 6 opposing teams. Players on the winning SIDE (Daedric worshipers or Aedric worshipers) get specific points too. This is so that if one team gains the upper hand, it might behoove the other worshipers to assist in the defense of the sigil to gain the extra bonuses… or they can be greedy and try to be the winning team to get the MOST points.
I think this should take place outside of the faction war… HOWEVER, all of the followers of Daedra/Aedra that is the best worshiped (on the leaderboard) in these arena games will be granted a blessing IF the majority of players that are online, at that time, in their faction, worship that Daedra/Aedra. This COULD lead to multiple factions receiving the blessing at once. If that happens, I feel sorry for that 3rd faction. Yikes! This could be updated once an hour or so. These would be on TOP of the leaderboard buffs mentioned in OP.
Heretics: An independent group could be added at some point that is the “wild-card” in all of this. These players hold no allegiance and could have their own skill-tree of “Secular Abundance” They earn points if the side they chose to play for wins a match. Let’s introduce another game type to illustrate the role a Heretic can play:
Lamb to the Slaughter: 1 VS 1-24 (however many). In this game the one player is the sacrifice, the others are the worshipers. The sacrifice has as many lives as there are worshipers (eg: 24 lives). Each Worshiper has 1 life. If the worshiper all dies, the sacrifice wins! If the worshipers take all the sacrifice’s lives, the worshipers win!
Enter the Heretics: 3 Heretics enter the match. If the Heretics kill the Worshipers more than they kill the Sacrifice and the Sacrifice wins… so do they! If worshipers win… they loose.- Heretics do NOT join sides prior to being in the match, their side is decided by their actions.
- Heretics are NOT on a team. Each Heretic is free to decide which team to play for and may need to kill opposing heretics
- The number of Heretics should equal no more than 1/4 of the total number of players in the match.
- Heretics never have a limited number of lives.
- A Heretic’s death has no impact on the match, one way or the other.
Oh and one last thing… we would absolutely need a game called:
TheWonderousWabbajackAttack: There are multiple Wabbjacks but only one is the REAL Wabbajack and the only way you know if it’s the real Wabbajack is to USE the Wabbajack. If you have a fake Wabbajack, it backfires and you become a chicken, a mudcrab, cheese, a goat, a sweetroll, a book, or you can heal yourself, a statue, a Dremora Lord (and you become bloody POWERFUL) or whatever else could happen (decapitation, explosion become nude… etc.).
If you have the real Wabbajack you can fire the Wabbajack at players and cause them to turn into any of the above mentioned. Players can also just outright fight. The way the match is scored is dependent on a dozen or so set of different rules and the player doesn’t know which set of rules by which they are playing. At the end of the match, old Sheo comes about to announce the winner, make everyone the winner, to kill everyone and there is no winner, or to fill all the empty slots in your inventory with moldy cheese.
I really love the groundwork you’ve laid here and I think it would be a really awesome addition to ESO with a frightening amount of possibilities. I also think this would be a perfect way to slowly roll out content. ZOS could introduce different play types gradually so that at first there is one type of match and then once every few months a new type of match could be introduced, expanding the gameplay.
I really hate to suggest this, but the ability to play the different game types COULD be sold in the crown store to tie this concept in with that monetizing agent. Any other (different) ideas on how ZOS can make money off of this concept would be MORE than welcomed.
Edited by Gidorick on February 18, 2015 2:46AMWhat ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!2 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Patchgrabber wrote: »Arenas perhaps, but not Daedra/Aedra skill lines. Aedra have never granted that many boons to a mortal, nor could they. Their limited power comes in the form of temporary blessings and objects of power like Chim-el Adabal. Daedra rarely give that much power to a mortal either, vampires and werewolves would be the only exceptions. The most I'd be ok with would be a small boon that you would see on your character screen.
I don't think I would call Chim-el Adabal temporary or minor. I'm not sure a minor boon is such a bad idea actually. Look at Mara's gift in Skyrim. It was actually a really good boon to have that gave something like a 15% permanent resist magicka. That's pretty awesome if you ask me. I'm not sure it particularly makes sense to have Daedra worshippers and Aedra worshippers fighting each other in an arena. I think it'd be more appropriate to have them hunting each other down in an open world pvp sort of manner. The Arena has a lore behind it, founded by Gaiden Shinji, and runs a lot like the Roman Arenas. I'd go with that theme for Arena gameplay personally, and have this aedra v daedra thing be open world pvp.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>0
