Population imbalance, "nighcapping", etc

tinythinker

Blaming players is lame.

You play when you can. If it's a low population point for another Alliance, that isn't a player's fault. Restricting when players can log on to fight will hurt AvA as much as the occasional lop-lopsidedness.

Try focusing instead on things ZOS could do. I am going to spitball here, feel free to pick the suggestions apart but maybe they will inspire better ideas. (I am not suggesting these ideas are a 100% fix, but they might lead to improvements.)

- have stronger keep walls/gates and more/stronger NPCs guards at all times. Make the "quick cap" something truly extraordinary to pull off and give defenders more time to arrive/slow down PvDoor. Make it worth capping resources prior to sieging rather than going straight to attacking the walls or gate. Please read the next few bullets before asking if this doesn't help those who are outnumbered - this is just the first step.

- have something like a low pop bonus for stronghold defense, but unlike the old version of a low pop for campaign scoring bonus don't make it so exploitable or too-late-able. How this would manifest in game mechanics I leave open for discussion, but it might include: bonuses to PCs, bonuses to keep wall/gate strength, bonuses to NPC strength or abilities, bonuses to repairs, etc. These could be tied to how many strongholds (castles, keeps, forts) remain under your Alliance's control rather than to how many players are on during a given interval. This would still benefit a low pop Alliance without the delay of counting heads every so often. If you control all of your starting strongholds, no bonus. For each one you lose, you get a bonus/the bonus increases automatically.

- have a domination penalty. Yes, you still get the fighting and AP/gold bonuses for controlling home and enemy strongholds to encourage taking more of them, but also new weaknesses to holding most or all of them at once, like the inverse of the last bullet point (weaker walls/gate strength, penalties to NPC strength or abilities, penalties to repairs, etc). After all, soldiers and resources can begin to tire and be stretched thin.

- have additional domination penalties on a timer. Related to the last bullet point, what about uprisings, insurrections, sabotage, or espionage? For every X hours you hold an enemy stronghold, the greater the chance that one of these events will happen. These events could in fact explain some of the domination penalties from the previous bullet or could be added on top of those. Weakening of a random section of a wall at a rate that gets faster over time that (will or could eventually) lead to a breach, having NPC guards patrolling outside the stronghold go missing/turn up dead (and not be replaced/no respawn), having new Nightblade-based NPCs that are placed outside of strongholds in (undetectable) stealth that are ready to ambush unwary PCs that are riding into/out of the stronghold, etc.


Those were just quick/off the top of my head thoughts, I am sure other players can come up with more or better ideas, but in any case let's make sure we share them with folks at ZOS like @ZOS_BrianWheeler‌.


Added since original post:

-make strongholds worth more points on the campaign scoreboard/worth more AP if captured or defended the longer they are held. This idea was intentionally suggested for helping to spread out players in a campaign but it also further incentivizes action against a dominant Alliance. If one Alliance has been controlling most or all of a map for days for weeks on a particular campaign, AP farmers/seekers will see that as a gold mine and a bonus to the campaign scoreboard for the capture helps get the other Alliances back into the competition.

RinaldoGandolphi

Their is big population imbalance right now, and it seems DC has been hit with the hardest. I don't know how you fix that outside of people re-rolling DC.

As it stands right now, if the pop issues continue as is, we will be looking at a lot of pvdorr garbage, night capping, and 1 faction(DC) having considerably less numbers then the other 2 which will not lead to a fun pvp long term for any of the 3 alliances.

right now, the only folks still playing DC are those crazy enough to fight ridiculously outnumbered against overwhelming odds.

Last night EP was pop locked on Thorn and 3 bars in Haderus and Chillrend...DC barely pulled 3 bars in chill and only had i think 2 in Thornblade....as i said...the only ones still playing DC are those crazy enough to fight ridiculously outnumbered.

If folks want a fun PVP expereince, then some of the EP and Ad folks are going to have to re-roll DC to even out the pop at primetime.

We all want fun good fights here right? Im allready Dc so i can't re-roll to another faction, but DC needs more players if you want a fun AvAvA game.

tinythinker

To give an example of how those suggestions might look in practice without making the original post even longer, here is a scenario:

DC decides to push AD. They siege Roebeck and Brindle. But, because the keep walls, gates, and NPC guards are much stronger, they decide to take resources first, alerting AD and giving them time to port or ride in.

But let's say most AD are sleeping or at work.

DC eventually take the two castles and rides on to Faregyl. Taking Brindle after Roebeck was noticeably harder, and capping Faregyl is even more challenging and take more time/players to pull off. Now it's on to Black Boot, but as AD keeps losing territory their defensive bonus keeps growing and the castles become tougher to take. At the same time, DC is getting a bigger defense penalty to their own home forts, making those more vulnerable to an incursion by EP or back-capping once AD logs on.

While it takes longer/more people, let's say DC captures Black Boot and Bloodmayne, grabs the AD scrolls, and is enjoying AP/gold/stat bonuses as well as racking up a higher score in the Alliance War. Yet their home forts are more vulnerable than ever, and having held Brindle and Roebeck for a good while now, the walls there start to crumble. DC players have to keep spending more and more AP on repairs. And the guards outside begin to disappear as well. Those places are becoming more vulnerable. It's even become dangerous to walk or ride near those captured castles because of the danger of being ambushed by stealthed NPCs.

AD begins to log on, initially with smaller yet significant and growing numbers, and sees that most of their castles are taken along with their scrolls. But they receive a bonus (new thing I just thought of) when re-taking home strongholds and DC has the domination penalties and is suffering the effects of continued sabotage and espionage/insurrection. Their grasp on all of those castles is tenuous, and AD begins its counter-assault...

None of this precludes one faction dominating another, it just makes it harder to pull off and maintain. The longer you try to, the harder it gets. Thanks for your time and consideration.

AhPook_Is_Here

Sounds like you guys were having a good time defending Chillrend. 5 bars net will cap one server for sure. DC is the lowest pop faction without a doubt, but you can still compete on Thornblade with what you have if you will it.

Hektlk

All three factions were pop locked during prime time yesterday.

Roechacca

woodsro wrote: »

Their is big population imbalance right now, and it seems DC has been hit with the hardest. I don't know how you fix that outside of people re-rolling DC.

As it stands right now, if the pop issues continue as is, we will be looking at a lot of pvdorr garbage, night capping, and 1 faction(DC) having considerably less numbers then the other 2 which will not lead to a fun pvp long term for any of the 3 alliances.

right now, the only folks still playing DC are those crazy enough to fight ridiculously outnumbered against overwhelming odds.

Last night EP was pop locked on Thorn and 3 bars in Haderus and Chillrend...DC barely pulled 3 bars in chill and only had i think 2 in Thornblade....as i said...the only ones still playing DC are those crazy enough to fight ridiculously outnumbered.

If folks want a fun PVP expereince, then some of the EP and Ad folks are going to have to re-roll DC to even out the pop at primetime.

We all want fun good fights here right? Im allready Dc so i can't re-roll to another faction, but DC needs more players if you want a fun AvAvA game.

No ones gonna reroll . No one wants to loose . I don't blame them either . Like every game I'm in , I'll be the last of the low pop side hold outs . Until a better pvp game presents itself ...

RinaldoGandolphi

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Sounds like you guys were having a good time defending Chillrend. 5 bars net will cap one server for sure. DC is the lowest pop faction without a doubt, but you can still compete on Thornblade with what you have if you will it.

Yes we still compete on Thornblade, but i have been homed on Haderus the last 2 weeks, but im most likely going back to Thorn after this campaign expires.

I had a blast with my small group on Chill the other night avoiding the large AD and EP Zergs, swinging around behind, picking off stragglers and smaller groups and getting away when the big groups came looking for us...one has to do what one has to do when outnumbered at every turn.

I tried to help them siege and defend their siege here and their, try my best to help watch the flank...however at some point it always seemed a huge group would come from the flank, and me and my small band of merry folks be forced to withdraw and watch the pugs get slaughtered like cattle to a butcher shop by EP and AD who were working together last night in concert.

I know EP and AD are trying to make Chill a real pvp server instead of a buff server, im cool with that, I welcome that. I just hope they don't push too hard and dwindle the DC pop down to a point of no return.

At the very worst, leave the Home keeps. Most pvpers will only put up with being gate pushed for so long...look no further then the gate camping nonsense that occured on Haderus as a prime example. We don't need to follow that route again.

I will say this though, The DC in Chill need to accept that Chill is no longer a buff server, and no amount of QQ is going to change that, and i saw a lot of QQ in that zone chat last night...They need to organize better, stop QQ, and get revenge....PVP is either fight or go home.

If DC actually wants to get some voice comms going and organize on Chill, i'd be more then happy to help, i'd recruit as many of my buddies as i can, but im not going to help cap the map, pvdoor the campaign so folks can have buffs, but im all about fighting against two worthy opponents in a positive pvp atmosphere.

AhPook_Is_Here

woodsro wrote: »

If DC actually wants to get some voice comms going and organize on Chill, i'd be more then happy to help, i'd recruit as many of my buddies as i can, but im not going to help cap the map, pvdoor the campaign so folks can have buffs, but im all about fighting against two worthy opponents in a positive pvp atmosphere.

That's the spirit. The population imbalance isn't fun for anyone. I'm interested in strong competition, and that's what organization will lead to. There should be an influx of new players when the game goes b2p, and they will need mentors and leaders to go to for inspiration to get in there and play.