1.6.2 Sorc Magicka Builds Still Ruined!!! I'm Done! ZoS Read!

Derra

pppontus wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ArconSeptim wrote: »

as I said sorcerer style players biggest whiners in the game but have the best dps in game

You either adapt or you don't, but this thread, is not feedback. This thread is the ultimate QQ and can only lead to people getting completely fed up with you. It's not too much to ask for some real in-game examples if you want people to listen to you.

How about the 10000+ times where we gave feedback about how a build requiring to run 3 toggles is not viable? You even included a paragraph about this toggle issue in your extensive post about 1.6...

What about I provide you one single target skill that you spam to reach 12k dps (no more, no less) when you manage to keep entropy up. You will have only 1 slot per bar and can't cast anything than that skill and entropy and at the same time struggle with the broken weapon swap (cooldown inside). Do you still think that would be a viable and nice build? Even if it grants 12k on serpent where other people get 11.5k?

Please don't focus on the crushing shock nerf and other peripheral issues and realize that currently PvE sorcs are trapped in a deep pit caused by bad gamedesign.

If you feel that's too restrictive I'd just drop Bound Aegis. I'm probably gonna do that anyway, sure 5% magicka is nice but it's not like "OH I MUST HAVE IT". Plus in 1.5 you'd pretty much have to have either ele drain and/or spell sym anyway which you could technically drop now so...

Sure, I'd also like more skill slots just like pretty much everyone else, but the difference is I'm not going to say my class(es) is(are) broken as a result. Actually the opposite, imagine these skills are actually so useful that you'd want to have them on your bar now.. that's a huge buff to the skills imo.

You have to use magelight and both pets. Also both pet buffs. Leaving you with two slots (degen + dd skill). No aoe without switching. No offheal. Edit: I don´t know of any sorc even considering using bound aegis. Its still an absolute garbage skill even with 8% max magica increase.
Also the morph choices you have to make is the opposite of what you would use in pvp (and they render you useless there without pets).

pppontus

Derra wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ArconSeptim wrote: »

as I said sorcerer style players biggest whiners in the game but have the best dps in game

You either adapt or you don't, but this thread, is not feedback. This thread is the ultimate QQ and can only lead to people getting completely fed up with you. It's not too much to ask for some real in-game examples if you want people to listen to you.

How about the 10000+ times where we gave feedback about how a build requiring to run 3 toggles is not viable? You even included a paragraph about this toggle issue in your extensive post about 1.6...

What about I provide you one single target skill that you spam to reach 12k dps (no more, no less) when you manage to keep entropy up. You will have only 1 slot per bar and can't cast anything than that skill and entropy and at the same time struggle with the broken weapon swap (cooldown inside). Do you still think that would be a viable and nice build? Even if it grants 12k on serpent where other people get 11.5k?

Please don't focus on the crushing shock nerf and other peripheral issues and realize that currently PvE sorcs are trapped in a deep pit caused by bad gamedesign.

If you feel that's too restrictive I'd just drop Bound Aegis. I'm probably gonna do that anyway, sure 5% magicka is nice but it's not like "OH I MUST HAVE IT". Plus in 1.5 you'd pretty much have to have either ele drain and/or spell sym anyway which you could technically drop now so...

Sure, I'd also like more skill slots just like pretty much everyone else, but the difference is I'm not going to say my class(es) is(are) broken as a result. Actually the opposite, imagine these skills are actually so useful that you'd want to have them on your bar now.. that's a huge buff to the skills imo.

You have to use magelight and both pets. Also both pet buffs. Leaving you with two slots (degen + dd skill). No aoe without switching. No offheal. Edit: I don´t know of any sorc even considering using bound aegis. Its still an absolute garbage skill even with 8% max magica increase.
Also the morph choices you have to make is the opposite of what you would use in pvp (and they render you useless there without pets).

Why on earth would you use the Clannfear? Drop it, not worth having. Twilight is good. There you go, now you only have 2 toggles. Fixed, maybe ZOS can put this fix in the 1.6.3 patch notes.

Sorcerer

• If you don't want to have 3 toggles, don't put 3 toggle skills on your bar.

BTW, I don't have AOE without switching on live either, esp. if you do Sanctum you want different setups for AOE and ST. Get wykkyds outfitter.

Regarding morphs this is the case for many abilities. Not even remotely sorc specific.

Fayaburn

pppontus wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ArconSeptim wrote: »

as I said sorcerer style players biggest whiners in the game but have the best dps in game

You either adapt or you don't, but this thread, is not feedback. This thread is the ultimate QQ and can only lead to people getting completely fed up with you. It's not too much to ask for some real in-game examples if you want people to listen to you.

How about the 10000+ times where we gave feedback about how a build requiring to run 3 toggles is not viable? You even included a paragraph about this toggle issue in your extensive post about 1.6...

What about I provide you one single target skill that you spam to reach 12k dps (no more, no less) when you manage to keep entropy up. You will have only 1 slot per bar and can't cast anything than that skill and entropy and at the same time struggle with the broken weapon swap (cooldown inside). Do you still think that would be a viable and nice build? Even if it grants 12k on serpent where other people get 11.5k?

Please don't focus on the crushing shock nerf and other peripheral issues and realize that currently PvE sorcs are trapped in a deep pit caused by bad gamedesign.

If you feel that's too restrictive I'd just drop Bound Aegis. I'm probably gonna do that anyway, sure 5% magicka is nice but it's not like "OH I MUST HAVE IT". Plus in 1.5 you'd pretty much have to have either ele drain and/or spell sym anyway which you could technically drop now so...

Sure, I'd also like more skill slots just like pretty much everyone else, but the difference is I'm not going to say my class(es) is(are) broken as a result. Actually the opposite, imagine these skills are actually so useful that you'd want to have them on your bar now.. that's a huge buff to the skills imo.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-pve-endgame-dps-zappy-mage/

I can't bear having only 2 actives per skill bar. Which is why I worked on this build and am using it on PTS. Yeah I can drop Bound Armor to gain 2 skill slots, however I am losing DPS compared to Nybling's build (1-2k) even before the CS nerf.

And even without sloting bound armor, I cannot use AOE and ST within the same fight. And yes some fights require AOE and ST without allowing to swap skills as you don't leave combat inbetween (e.g. many vet dsa fights).

And btw, you say that magicka sorc is the only build to produce good numbers in ranged ST. I think this is because most people are currently testing/theorycrafting melee stamina builds (other than sorcs that have really bad synergies with PvE 1.6 stamina builds). As soon as more people from other classes start to really try to min-max magicka builds, good numbers will come up as well.

Magdalina

pppontus wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ArconSeptim wrote: »

as I said sorcerer style players biggest whiners in the game but have the best dps in game

I honestly do think you're on to something. I've never seen so many complaints without any basis on real builds, numbers or anything. In here it's just a bunch of people screaming loudly because of perceived changes or what a tooltip says.

All classes had a lot of changes to them, but the reason the complaints are 90% sorcerers are because all the others are out testing builds, not being angry because "10% crushing shock!!".

I just can't believe you people, admittedly I haven't gotten to dealing with my own Sorc yet but I've seen @Nybling posted a build on TF which seems to do good DPS (at range) both with and without Overload and when we went to SO the sorc using his build was actually the highest DPS across the whole fight. Here people scream at him for using pets? WTF?!?

Then again, a large amount of Sorcs were whining uncontrollably in 1.5 as well while I regularly beat slightly less skilled DKs by pulling a constant 1,4K on my Sorc. Sure, it was lacking a little in 1.5 but it wasn't nearly as bad as people made it out to be either.

And @Exstazik‌ , I really don't know what to tell you, but you can't look at tooltips and say what DPS a build pulls. It doesn't work like that, there are a lot more factors to take into account than that. Try weaving with a bow and then tell me you can do more DPS with that.

You either adapt or you don't, but this thread, is not feedback. This thread is the ultimate QQ and can only lead to people getting completely fed up with you. It's not too much to ask for some real in-game examples if you want people to listen to you.

It's a bit hard to provide numbers comparison atm since we aren't even certain yet what good numbers are. But there are some numbers provided in other threads by, say, a member of Hodor saying he/she cannot pull more than 8k sustained with the sorc while DK can go 12k. That sounds like a legit concern to me.

Also, if you pull 1.4k sustained dps on non-daedric enemies with your sorc right now, please share. I'm not *most* optimized player and I would love to know how you reach such godmode when no sorc I know can. Teach me, master ^.^

And people are whining because we've been constructively complaining for quite a while - like about how sorc have no stam mangement, no reliable selfheal, no instant attacks, in the end weak-ish dps and nothing to compensate for it(like templars may not have highest dps(on live at least) but they're hands down best healers), and here comes 1.6 and we see none of our concerns addressed. It's not constructive at all but sometimes you just get so fed up you have to start throwing dishes against the floor before you kill someone^^

Well, as much as I respect Hodor for all they have achieved it doesn't mean every one of their members are elite theorycrafters. As mentioned, have a look at http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-x-nyblings-magicka-based-sorc-dps-champion-rank-71/ for a build that can clearly push 12K fully sustained and 14K semi-sustained (overload). This is better than all ranged builds I have seen, literally all of them and only beat by a few melee builds.

As for 1.5, go for 5x Infallible Aether and 2x Spawn of Mephala, weave CS with medium charged heavy attacks = 1,4K DPS when using Atronach and at least 1,2K without. Not undead, proper bossfights.

I would say the legitimate Sorc concerns (lower highest potential DPS) was adressed, as it now has potential to do the highest DPS and imo almost over the top for a ranged caster. But I won't comment on that until I see more from the other classes. Saying sorcs didn't have a reliable self-heal is not true, as crit surge + 60% crit was insanely OP in 1.5.

I just have a low tolerance for people giving feedback without actually testing anything, it's like those backseat drivers all over again.

1.4k with an ulti isn't really sustained though, can't really keep it up all the time on single target. 1.2k, okay, I can believe that. Thank you master

I wouldn't call Surge a reliable selfheal since you have to attack and have to crit. That is a limitation in certain situations, though it does magic if you can just stand still with 60% crit and spam your damage abilities. But, say, if you wanna tank you have 0 selfheal because you obviously aren't going to pull a lot of crit damage, and if you wanna PvP you have 0 selheal since you won't crit. All of that makes it not all that OP *overall* in 1.5 imo. If you and/or devs think Surge was OP and in dire need of a nerf, then sorc need a proper selfheal in its place -and one that doesn't take 4 seconds to work, if you have Dark Deal in mind. Imagine for a second if Dragonblood took 4 seconds to channel and drained most of a resource pool.

Far as the build you linked goes, even if it does(didn't they nerf Crushing Shock?) good dps...toggles, toggles, toggles. 6 out of 10 slots taken by toggles? You sound reasonable, I'm really not trying to attack you or diminish the efforts of the person putting this build together, but do you really find a build with 4 active slots fine and fun? What do I do for AOE dmg? What happens to offheals? Where do I slot Evil Hunter?
Also, I haven't done (much) testing yet, but doesn't Twilight still die to 2-3 direct hits? The dps test was done on Bloodspawn which is wonderful for a target dummy but even if we talk Spindle...what happens on Praxin fight where you need aoe AND single target and no way tank can keep all the ads off you and pets?

Exstazik

Fayaburn wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ArconSeptim wrote: »

as I said sorcerer style players biggest whiners in the game but have the best dps in game

You either adapt or you don't, but this thread, is not feedback. This thread is the ultimate QQ and can only lead to people getting completely fed up with you. It's not too much to ask for some real in-game examples if you want people to listen to you.

How about the 10000+ times where we gave feedback about how a build requiring to run 3 toggles is not viable? You even included a paragraph about this toggle issue in your extensive post about 1.6...

What about I provide you one single target skill that you spam to reach 12k dps (no more, no less) when you manage to keep entropy up. You will have only 1 slot per bar and can't cast anything than that skill and entropy and at the same time struggle with the broken weapon swap (cooldown inside). Do you still think that would be a viable and nice build? Even if it grants 12k on serpent where other people get 11.5k?

Please don't focus on the crushing shock nerf and other peripheral issues and realize that currently PvE sorcs are trapped in a deep pit caused by bad gamedesign.

If you feel that's too restrictive I'd just drop Bound Aegis. I'm probably gonna do that anyway, sure 5% magicka is nice but it's not like "OH I MUST HAVE IT". Plus in 1.5 you'd pretty much have to have either ele drain and/or spell sym anyway which you could technically drop now so...

Sure, I'd also like more skill slots just like pretty much everyone else, but the difference is I'm not going to say my class(es) is(are) broken as a result. Actually the opposite, imagine these skills are actually so useful that you'd want to have them on your bar now.. that's a huge buff to the skills imo.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-pve-endgame-dps-zappy-mage/

I can't bear having only 2 actives per skill bar. Which is why I worked on this build and am using it on PTS. Yeah I can drop Bound Armor to gain 2 skill slots, however I am losing DPS compared to Nybling's build (1-2k) even before the CS nerf.

And even without sloting bound armor, I cannot use AOE and ST within the same fight. And yes some fights require AOE and ST without allowing to swap skills as you don't leave combat inbetween (e.g. many vet dsa fights).

And btw, you say that magicka sorc is the only build to produce good numbers in ranged ST. I think this is because most people are currently testing/theorycrafting melee stamina builds (other than sorcs that have really bad synergies with PvE 1.6 stamina builds). As soon as more people from other classes start to really try to min-max magicka builds, good numbers will come up as well.

pppontus

Fayaburn wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ArconSeptim wrote: »

as I said sorcerer style players biggest whiners in the game but have the best dps in game

You either adapt or you don't, but this thread, is not feedback. This thread is the ultimate QQ and can only lead to people getting completely fed up with you. It's not too much to ask for some real in-game examples if you want people to listen to you.

How about the 10000+ times where we gave feedback about how a build requiring to run 3 toggles is not viable? You even included a paragraph about this toggle issue in your extensive post about 1.6...

What about I provide you one single target skill that you spam to reach 12k dps (no more, no less) when you manage to keep entropy up. You will have only 1 slot per bar and can't cast anything than that skill and entropy and at the same time struggle with the broken weapon swap (cooldown inside). Do you still think that would be a viable and nice build? Even if it grants 12k on serpent where other people get 11.5k?

Please don't focus on the crushing shock nerf and other peripheral issues and realize that currently PvE sorcs are trapped in a deep pit caused by bad gamedesign.

If you feel that's too restrictive I'd just drop Bound Aegis. I'm probably gonna do that anyway, sure 5% magicka is nice but it's not like "OH I MUST HAVE IT". Plus in 1.5 you'd pretty much have to have either ele drain and/or spell sym anyway which you could technically drop now so...

Sure, I'd also like more skill slots just like pretty much everyone else, but the difference is I'm not going to say my class(es) is(are) broken as a result. Actually the opposite, imagine these skills are actually so useful that you'd want to have them on your bar now.. that's a huge buff to the skills imo.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-pve-endgame-dps-zappy-mage/

I can't bear having only 2 actives per skill bar. Which is why I am worked on this build and am using it on PTS. Yeah I can drop Bound Armor to gain 2 skill slots, however I am losing DPS compared to Nybling's build (1-2k) even before the CS nerf.

And even without sloting bound armor, I cannot use AOE and ST within the same fight. And yes some fights require AOE and ST without allowing to swap skills as you don't leave combat inbetween (e.g. many vet dsa fights).

And btw, you say that magicka sorc is the only build to produce good numbers in ranged ST. I think this is because most people are currently testing/theorycrafting melee stamina builds (other than sorcs that have really bad synergies with PvE 1.6 stamina builds). As soon as more people from other classes start to really try to min-max magicka builds, good numbers will come up as well.

Looking at that build I'd say the skill choices look pretty solid. I would drop the healer and seducer for better gear though, 2x rings of cyrodiils light (177 sp dmg) and neck+armor piece of adroitness (177 sp dmg) and you should have 5 necropotence or none at all, maybe even 4x martial knowledge instead and then torugs armor and staff. or 5 necropotence with a masters destro staff.

You should be prioritizing spell damage over everything unless you can get at least twice the magicka, see below what you gain from different bonuses.

Force Pulse (modifier 0,09091977)
----
Base: 3720
+933 magicka: 3805 +85
+177 spell power: 3883 +163
+4% crit: 3794 +74

You can use spell cost reduction on your jewelry glyphs if you need more sustain.

It is definitely possible to make a really solid build without having 3 toggles, you just have to do it right.

Edit: I don't know the language that's in that picture but it doesn't look like a ranged build to me. Again, please do not compare range with melee as it's clear ZOS is differentiating between the two as melee has lower DPS uptime in almost all boss fights.

Fayaburn

Exstazik wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ArconSeptim wrote: »

as I said sorcerer style players biggest whiners in the game but have the best dps in game

You either adapt or you don't, but this thread, is not feedback. This thread is the ultimate QQ and can only lead to people getting completely fed up with you. It's not too much to ask for some real in-game examples if you want people to listen to you.

How about the 10000+ times where we gave feedback about how a build requiring to run 3 toggles is not viable? You even included a paragraph about this toggle issue in your extensive post about 1.6...

What about I provide you one single target skill that you spam to reach 12k dps (no more, no less) when you manage to keep entropy up. You will have only 1 slot per bar and can't cast anything than that skill and entropy and at the same time struggle with the broken weapon swap (cooldown inside). Do you still think that would be a viable and nice build? Even if it grants 12k on serpent where other people get 11.5k?

Please don't focus on the crushing shock nerf and other peripheral issues and realize that currently PvE sorcs are trapped in a deep pit caused by bad gamedesign.

If you feel that's too restrictive I'd just drop Bound Aegis. I'm probably gonna do that anyway, sure 5% magicka is nice but it's not like "OH I MUST HAVE IT". Plus in 1.5 you'd pretty much have to have either ele drain and/or spell sym anyway which you could technically drop now so...

Sure, I'd also like more skill slots just like pretty much everyone else, but the difference is I'm not going to say my class(es) is(are) broken as a result. Actually the opposite, imagine these skills are actually so useful that you'd want to have them on your bar now.. that's a huge buff to the skills imo.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-pve-endgame-dps-zappy-mage/

I can't bear having only 2 actives per skill bar. Which is why I worked on this build and am using it on PTS. Yeah I can drop Bound Armor to gain 2 skill slots, however I am losing DPS compared to Nybling's build (1-2k) even before the CS nerf.

And even without sloting bound armor, I cannot use AOE and ST within the same fight. And yes some fights require AOE and ST without allowing to swap skills as you don't leave combat inbetween (e.g. many vet dsa fights).

And btw, you say that magicka sorc is the only build to produce good numbers in ranged ST. I think this is because most people are currently testing/theorycrafting melee stamina builds (other than sorcs that have really bad synergies with PvE 1.6 stamina builds). As soon as more people from other classes start to really try to min-max magicka builds, good numbers will come up as well.

What is your point?
We all know that currently, melee stamina builds have advantage regarding ST DPS on tank and spank fights.

I was just saying that other classes than sorcerers can produce proper numbers with a range magicka build.

Derra

pppontus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ArconSeptim wrote: »

as I said sorcerer style players biggest whiners in the game but have the best dps in game

You either adapt or you don't, but this thread, is not feedback. This thread is the ultimate QQ and can only lead to people getting completely fed up with you. It's not too much to ask for some real in-game examples if you want people to listen to you.

How about the 10000+ times where we gave feedback about how a build requiring to run 3 toggles is not viable? You even included a paragraph about this toggle issue in your extensive post about 1.6...

What about I provide you one single target skill that you spam to reach 12k dps (no more, no less) when you manage to keep entropy up. You will have only 1 slot per bar and can't cast anything than that skill and entropy and at the same time struggle with the broken weapon swap (cooldown inside). Do you still think that would be a viable and nice build? Even if it grants 12k on serpent where other people get 11.5k?

Please don't focus on the crushing shock nerf and other peripheral issues and realize that currently PvE sorcs are trapped in a deep pit caused by bad gamedesign.

If you feel that's too restrictive I'd just drop Bound Aegis. I'm probably gonna do that anyway, sure 5% magicka is nice but it's not like "OH I MUST HAVE IT". Plus in 1.5 you'd pretty much have to have either ele drain and/or spell sym anyway which you could technically drop now so...

Sure, I'd also like more skill slots just like pretty much everyone else, but the difference is I'm not going to say my class(es) is(are) broken as a result. Actually the opposite, imagine these skills are actually so useful that you'd want to have them on your bar now.. that's a huge buff to the skills imo.

You have to use magelight and both pets. Also both pet buffs. Leaving you with two slots (degen + dd skill). No aoe without switching. No offheal. Edit: I don´t know of any sorc even considering using bound aegis. Its still an absolute garbage skill even with 8% max magica increase.
Also the morph choices you have to make is the opposite of what you would use in pvp (and they render you useless there without pets).

Why on earth would you use the Clannfear? Drop it, not worth having. Twilight is good. There you go, now you only have 2 toggles. Fixed, maybe ZOS can put this fix in the 1.6.3 patch notes.

Sorcerer

• If you don't want to have 3 toggles, don't put 3 toggle skills on your bar.

BTW, I don't have AOE without switching on live either, esp. if you do Sanctum you want different setups for AOE and ST. Get wykkyds outfitter.

Regarding morphs this is the case for many abilities. Not even remotely sorc specific.

I´m using the clannfear because it´s about 1k dps. There is no skill available to compete with that. If you don´t want three toggles - loose (edit: about 10%) dps - nice one.

The sorc morphs are on a whole new level of not usable without its specific niche though. I´ve played many builds. The sorc pet morphs are terrible out of their designed niche context. No other morph choice is even remotely comparable.

pppontus

Exstazik wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ArconSeptim wrote: »

as I said sorcerer style players biggest whiners in the game but have the best dps in game

You either adapt or you don't, but this thread, is not feedback. This thread is the ultimate QQ and can only lead to people getting completely fed up with you. It's not too much to ask for some real in-game examples if you want people to listen to you.

How about the 10000+ times where we gave feedback about how a build requiring to run 3 toggles is not viable? You even included a paragraph about this toggle issue in your extensive post about 1.6...

What about I provide you one single target skill that you spam to reach 12k dps (no more, no less) when you manage to keep entropy up. You will have only 1 slot per bar and can't cast anything than that skill and entropy and at the same time struggle with the broken weapon swap (cooldown inside). Do you still think that would be a viable and nice build? Even if it grants 12k on serpent where other people get 11.5k?

Please don't focus on the crushing shock nerf and other peripheral issues and realize that currently PvE sorcs are trapped in a deep pit caused by bad gamedesign.

If you feel that's too restrictive I'd just drop Bound Aegis. I'm probably gonna do that anyway, sure 5% magicka is nice but it's not like "OH I MUST HAVE IT". Plus in 1.5 you'd pretty much have to have either ele drain and/or spell sym anyway which you could technically drop now so...

Sure, I'd also like more skill slots just like pretty much everyone else, but the difference is I'm not going to say my class(es) is(are) broken as a result. Actually the opposite, imagine these skills are actually so useful that you'd want to have them on your bar now.. that's a huge buff to the skills imo.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-pve-endgame-dps-zappy-mage/

I can't bear having only 2 actives per skill bar. Which is why I worked on this build and am using it on PTS. Yeah I can drop Bound Armor to gain 2 skill slots, however I am losing DPS compared to Nybling's build (1-2k) even before the CS nerf.

And even without sloting bound armor, I cannot use AOE and ST within the same fight. And yes some fights require AOE and ST without allowing to swap skills as you don't leave combat inbetween (e.g. many vet dsa fights).

And btw, you say that magicka sorc is the only build to produce good numbers in ranged ST. I think this is because most people are currently testing/theorycrafting melee stamina builds (other than sorcs that have really bad synergies with PvE 1.6 stamina builds). As soon as more people from other classes start to really try to min-max magicka builds, good numbers will come up as well.

What a revelation, apparently melee builds do better on fights where you can just stand in one spot and bang away. Who would have known?

Oh yes, everyone.

I suggest you go stamina melee yourself, you'll see how "OP" it is.

Derra wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ArconSeptim wrote: »

as I said sorcerer style players biggest whiners in the game but have the best dps in game

You either adapt or you don't, but this thread, is not feedback. This thread is the ultimate QQ and can only lead to people getting completely fed up with you. It's not too much to ask for some real in-game examples if you want people to listen to you.

How about the 10000+ times where we gave feedback about how a build requiring to run 3 toggles is not viable? You even included a paragraph about this toggle issue in your extensive post about 1.6...

What about I provide you one single target skill that you spam to reach 12k dps (no more, no less) when you manage to keep entropy up. You will have only 1 slot per bar and can't cast anything than that skill and entropy and at the same time struggle with the broken weapon swap (cooldown inside). Do you still think that would be a viable and nice build? Even if it grants 12k on serpent where other people get 11.5k?

Please don't focus on the crushing shock nerf and other peripheral issues and realize that currently PvE sorcs are trapped in a deep pit caused by bad gamedesign.

If you feel that's too restrictive I'd just drop Bound Aegis. I'm probably gonna do that anyway, sure 5% magicka is nice but it's not like "OH I MUST HAVE IT". Plus in 1.5 you'd pretty much have to have either ele drain and/or spell sym anyway which you could technically drop now so...

Sure, I'd also like more skill slots just like pretty much everyone else, but the difference is I'm not going to say my class(es) is(are) broken as a result. Actually the opposite, imagine these skills are actually so useful that you'd want to have them on your bar now.. that's a huge buff to the skills imo.

You have to use magelight and both pets. Also both pet buffs. Leaving you with two slots (degen + dd skill). No aoe without switching. No offheal. Edit: I don´t know of any sorc even considering using bound aegis. Its still an absolute garbage skill even with 8% max magica increase.
Also the morph choices you have to make is the opposite of what you would use in pvp (and they render you useless there without pets).

Why on earth would you use the Clannfear? Drop it, not worth having. Twilight is good. There you go, now you only have 2 toggles. Fixed, maybe ZOS can put this fix in the 1.6.3 patch notes.

Sorcerer

• If you don't want to have 3 toggles, don't put 3 toggle skills on your bar.

BTW, I don't have AOE without switching on live either, esp. if you do Sanctum you want different setups for AOE and ST. Get wykkyds outfitter.

Regarding morphs this is the case for many abilities. Not even remotely sorc specific.

I´m using the clannfear because it´s about 1k dps. There is no skill available to compete with that. If you don´t want three toggles - loose (edit: about 10%) dps - nice one.

The sorc morphs are on a whole new level of not usable without its specific niche though. I´ve played many builds. The sorc pet morphs are terrible out of their designed niche context. No other morph choice is even remotely comparable.

If there are no skills that can compete with that, why the hell is it a problem that you have too few skill slots? I really don't get it.

Derra

Because you have 8 slots occupied with that build + need entropy and fragments. No aoe without switching skills.

Xsorus

Derra wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

rogue_gamer32b14_ESO wrote: »

Nybling wrote: »

xherics wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

I just watched a sorc get 14k dps with a caster build. Before you ask they had 90 champion points spent.

Build and rotation pls?

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-x-nyblings-magicka-based-sorc-dps-champion-rank-71/page/4/#post-567158

The current last post in thread.

I want to see this man to do the DPS for more than 100 seconds... Impossible, the dps drops to 8k all the time...

I think you underestimate how sustainable overload is. Light Attacks w/ Overload regenerate Ultimate. After a minute I still had almost 700 ultimate left and that was with constant weaving after each crystal frags.

Nybling...not trying to be rude. However you're the same person champing pet builds along with Erlexx on Tamriel Foundry. I don't think anyone here respects you for that or that you are helping the further downfall of our class.

If you hadn't noticed. The major of the people who play this class, are seriously unhappy with it, and we are all calling for change. This thread alone is proof of that.

Overload is bugged and has been reported 101 times. It will be fixed.

As a member of Entropy Rising you have the Developers ear some what. You of all people should be using to pull out class out of the dump.

Let's be honest here, most of you wont be happy with the sorc till you have the best dps, healing, tanking, mobility in the game. Frankly I'm getting tired of people whining about pet builds just like nightblades who whined their class sucked and would always say something moronic like "they're nightBLADES not nightSTAFFS."

It gets old and your class doesn't suck so quit whining.

It has nothing to do with ppl being unreasonable about their class. It has legit problems in pve (dps not being one of them if you´re playing pets admittedly).

The only problem i (personally) have with petbuilds is that they offer zero variety.
You have 6 slots out of ten given away for toggles. Two more musthaves for the pet buffs. Then you HAVE to slot either surge or entropy (entropy is the obvious choice for pve here).That leaves you with 1 damage ability to slot from your normal bar and maybe 2 ability slots on your overload bar. Also the best singletarget build won´t be able to slot aoe abilities at all without switching skills.
One skill up to personal preference (crystal blast is still the obvious choice here) is a little stupid.
Also these kind of build offers no grp utility whatsoever apart from 10% magica reg (you don´t even have the option to slot an offheal).

The biggest annoyance however is that you can under no circumstance have a build like that and pvp on the same character without respeccing morphs. PvP requires hardened ward (pet build needs empowered). PvP requires velocious curse (pet build requires daedric prey). PvP requires fragments (pet build should slot blast bc you cant procc it anyway and need aoe). PvP uses volatile familar (pet build requires clannfear bc of double the dps of familar). PvP would use twilight matriarch (pet build requires restoring for grp sustain and it does more dmg). Magelight is debatable.

No other class has to choose between most of their core abilities if they want to pve or pvp. A player doing both will have to respec every time he does one or the other. This is my biggest problem with petbuilds atm.

Oh please, variety bit is a joke, you realize on live right in dungeons when I'm doing dps with dual bow i have one bar with snipe, poison injection, and another with arrow spray and scorched earth, and both bar usually have evil dead and siphoning attacks, and my last ability is usually something like piercing mark or shades. 90% of the time I'm spamming one ability, and that's eithet snipe on single target pulls or acid spray on aoe pulls. So complaining you have one dps ability is pointless, because most setups are that way unless they're dot builds.

Oh and here is the kicker, bow actually isn't good dps on pts and most of us stamina users will either end up spamming wrecking blow or a dot build with dual wield.

Nice. You realize that you can slot AoE and singletarget? A pet build is not able to do even that.
Also thanks for ignoring my second point completely.

You have obviously no interest in constructive discussion in any form. Go t**** somewhere else.

I slot single target and aoe by using 2 bows, something you can do with two staves. I also find your second point silly simple because I run lethal arrow which isn't as good as focused aim which would wield more dps and I'd prefer to use venom arrow over poison injection but it's simply to big of a dps increase in pve not to have it. if also prefer bombard for pvp but again I have to have acid spray, scorched earth is only one that's not a problem simply because it's awful for pvp and isn't in consideration. Evil dead is another ability that while great for pve is much rather have camo hunter, so pet build isn't the only one making concessions on pve and pvp.

It is not a matter of a 10% efficiency. Crystal blast is unusable in pvp. Empowered ward is 33% weaker. Daedric Prey is 40% weaker.
It´s not a problem of running suboptimal morphs. You´re gutting yourself by using them in pvp outside of a petspec. I´ve played a bow spec in pvp(edit: and pve) and your example is in no way comparable to the sorc pet morphs.

Also did you read my post at all? You can´t slot an AoE because you don´t have space on your bars. There is no option like "slot two staves", you´re already using them.

Like i said. You don´t read what ppl post and the result is this nonsense you come up with.

It is entirely comparable as you have pet setups you can run in pvp that are based off those abilities, will it be as effective as other pvp builds? Nope, but bow builds using their pve dps build will be equally as crap as any damage do is pretty much instant healed thanks to no lethal arrow. As for not being able to slot aoe? You use 8 abilities do you not? That leaves 1 spot on each bar correct? Put single target on one bar, impulse or wall of elements on your other bar. Remember your pets are your primary dps...not those other abilities.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Fayaburn

pppontus wrote: »

Exstazik wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ArconSeptim wrote: »

as I said sorcerer style players biggest whiners in the game but have the best dps in game

You either adapt or you don't, but this thread, is not feedback. This thread is the ultimate QQ and can only lead to people getting completely fed up with you. It's not too much to ask for some real in-game examples if you want people to listen to you.

How about the 10000+ times where we gave feedback about how a build requiring to run 3 toggles is not viable? You even included a paragraph about this toggle issue in your extensive post about 1.6...

What about I provide you one single target skill that you spam to reach 12k dps (no more, no less) when you manage to keep entropy up. You will have only 1 slot per bar and can't cast anything than that skill and entropy and at the same time struggle with the broken weapon swap (cooldown inside). Do you still think that would be a viable and nice build? Even if it grants 12k on serpent where other people get 11.5k?

Please don't focus on the crushing shock nerf and other peripheral issues and realize that currently PvE sorcs are trapped in a deep pit caused by bad gamedesign.

If you feel that's too restrictive I'd just drop Bound Aegis. I'm probably gonna do that anyway, sure 5% magicka is nice but it's not like "OH I MUST HAVE IT". Plus in 1.5 you'd pretty much have to have either ele drain and/or spell sym anyway which you could technically drop now so...

Sure, I'd also like more skill slots just like pretty much everyone else, but the difference is I'm not going to say my class(es) is(are) broken as a result. Actually the opposite, imagine these skills are actually so useful that you'd want to have them on your bar now.. that's a huge buff to the skills imo.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-pve-endgame-dps-zappy-mage/

I can't bear having only 2 actives per skill bar. Which is why I worked on this build and am using it on PTS. Yeah I can drop Bound Armor to gain 2 skill slots, however I am losing DPS compared to Nybling's build (1-2k) even before the CS nerf.

And even without sloting bound armor, I cannot use AOE and ST within the same fight. And yes some fights require AOE and ST without allowing to swap skills as you don't leave combat inbetween (e.g. many vet dsa fights).

And btw, you say that magicka sorc is the only build to produce good numbers in ranged ST. I think this is because most people are currently testing/theorycrafting melee stamina builds (other than sorcs that have really bad synergies with PvE 1.6 stamina builds). As soon as more people from other classes start to really try to min-max magicka builds, good numbers will come up as well.

What a revelation, apparently melee builds do better on fights where you can just stand in one spot and bang away. Who would have known?

Oh yes, everyone.

I suggest you go stamina melee yourself, you'll see how "OP" it is.

Derra wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ArconSeptim wrote: »

as I said sorcerer style players biggest whiners in the game but have the best dps in game

You either adapt or you don't, but this thread, is not feedback. This thread is the ultimate QQ and can only lead to people getting completely fed up with you. It's not too much to ask for some real in-game examples if you want people to listen to you.

How about the 10000+ times where we gave feedback about how a build requiring to run 3 toggles is not viable? You even included a paragraph about this toggle issue in your extensive post about 1.6...

What about I provide you one single target skill that you spam to reach 12k dps (no more, no less) when you manage to keep entropy up. You will have only 1 slot per bar and can't cast anything than that skill and entropy and at the same time struggle with the broken weapon swap (cooldown inside). Do you still think that would be a viable and nice build? Even if it grants 12k on serpent where other people get 11.5k?

Please don't focus on the crushing shock nerf and other peripheral issues and realize that currently PvE sorcs are trapped in a deep pit caused by bad gamedesign.

If you feel that's too restrictive I'd just drop Bound Aegis. I'm probably gonna do that anyway, sure 5% magicka is nice but it's not like "OH I MUST HAVE IT". Plus in 1.5 you'd pretty much have to have either ele drain and/or spell sym anyway which you could technically drop now so...

Sure, I'd also like more skill slots just like pretty much everyone else, but the difference is I'm not going to say my class(es) is(are) broken as a result. Actually the opposite, imagine these skills are actually so useful that you'd want to have them on your bar now.. that's a huge buff to the skills imo.

You have to use magelight and both pets. Also both pet buffs. Leaving you with two slots (degen + dd skill). No aoe without switching. No offheal. Edit: I don´t know of any sorc even considering using bound aegis. Its still an absolute garbage skill even with 8% max magica increase.
Also the morph choices you have to make is the opposite of what you would use in pvp (and they render you useless there without pets).

Why on earth would you use the Clannfear? Drop it, not worth having. Twilight is good. There you go, now you only have 2 toggles. Fixed, maybe ZOS can put this fix in the 1.6.3 patch notes.

Sorcerer

• If you don't want to have 3 toggles, don't put 3 toggle skills on your bar.

BTW, I don't have AOE without switching on live either, esp. if you do Sanctum you want different setups for AOE and ST. Get wykkyds outfitter.

Regarding morphs this is the case for many abilities. Not even remotely sorc specific.

I´m using the clannfear because it´s about 1k dps. There is no skill available to compete with that. If you don´t want three toggles - loose (edit: about 10%) dps - nice one.

The sorc morphs are on a whole new level of not usable without its specific niche though. I´ve played many builds. The sorc pet morphs are terrible out of their designed niche context. No other morph choice is even remotely comparable.

If there are no skills that can compete with that, why the hell is it a problem that you have too few skill slots? I really don't get it.

Oh yeah. I guess I will just get some lego mechanism that pushes a single key once every 1.3s to produce same result with such a great gameplay.

pppontus

Magdalina wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ArconSeptim wrote: »

as I said sorcerer style players biggest whiners in the game but have the best dps in game

I honestly do think you're on to something. I've never seen so many complaints without any basis on real builds, numbers or anything. In here it's just a bunch of people screaming loudly because of perceived changes or what a tooltip says.

All classes had a lot of changes to them, but the reason the complaints are 90% sorcerers are because all the others are out testing builds, not being angry because "10% crushing shock!!".

I just can't believe you people, admittedly I haven't gotten to dealing with my own Sorc yet but I've seen @Nybling posted a build on TF which seems to do good DPS (at range) both with and without Overload and when we went to SO the sorc using his build was actually the highest DPS across the whole fight. Here people scream at him for using pets? WTF?!?

Then again, a large amount of Sorcs were whining uncontrollably in 1.5 as well while I regularly beat slightly less skilled DKs by pulling a constant 1,4K on my Sorc. Sure, it was lacking a little in 1.5 but it wasn't nearly as bad as people made it out to be either.

And @Exstazik‌ , I really don't know what to tell you, but you can't look at tooltips and say what DPS a build pulls. It doesn't work like that, there are a lot more factors to take into account than that. Try weaving with a bow and then tell me you can do more DPS with that.

You either adapt or you don't, but this thread, is not feedback. This thread is the ultimate QQ and can only lead to people getting completely fed up with you. It's not too much to ask for some real in-game examples if you want people to listen to you.

It's a bit hard to provide numbers comparison atm since we aren't even certain yet what good numbers are. But there are some numbers provided in other threads by, say, a member of Hodor saying he/she cannot pull more than 8k sustained with the sorc while DK can go 12k. That sounds like a legit concern to me.

Also, if you pull 1.4k sustained dps on non-daedric enemies with your sorc right now, please share. I'm not *most* optimized player and I would love to know how you reach such godmode when no sorc I know can. Teach me, master ^.^

And people are whining because we've been constructively complaining for quite a while - like about how sorc have no stam mangement, no reliable selfheal, no instant attacks, in the end weak-ish dps and nothing to compensate for it(like templars may not have highest dps(on live at least) but they're hands down best healers), and here comes 1.6 and we see none of our concerns addressed. It's not constructive at all but sometimes you just get so fed up you have to start throwing dishes against the floor before you kill someone^^

Well, as much as I respect Hodor for all they have achieved it doesn't mean every one of their members are elite theorycrafters. As mentioned, have a look at http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-x-nyblings-magicka-based-sorc-dps-champion-rank-71/ for a build that can clearly push 12K fully sustained and 14K semi-sustained (overload). This is better than all ranged builds I have seen, literally all of them and only beat by a few melee builds.

As for 1.5, go for 5x Infallible Aether and 2x Spawn of Mephala, weave CS with medium charged heavy attacks = 1,4K DPS when using Atronach and at least 1,2K without. Not undead, proper bossfights.

I would say the legitimate Sorc concerns (lower highest potential DPS) was adressed, as it now has potential to do the highest DPS and imo almost over the top for a ranged caster. But I won't comment on that until I see more from the other classes. Saying sorcs didn't have a reliable self-heal is not true, as crit surge + 60% crit was insanely OP in 1.5.

I just have a low tolerance for people giving feedback without actually testing anything, it's like those backseat drivers all over again.

1.4k with an ulti isn't really sustained though, can't really keep it up all the time on single target. 1.2k, okay, I can believe that. Thank you master

I wouldn't call Surge a reliable selfheal since you have to attack and have to crit. That is a limitation in certain situations, though it does magic if you can just stand still with 60% crit and spam your damage abilities. But, say, if you wanna tank you have 0 selfheal because you obviously aren't going to pull a lot of crit damage, and if you wanna PvP you have 0 selheal since you won't crit. All of that makes it not all that OP *overall* in 1.5 imo. If you and/or devs think Surge was OP and in dire need of a nerf, then sorc need a proper selfheal in its place -and one that doesn't take 4 seconds to work, if you have Dark Deal in mind. Imagine for a second if Dragonblood took 4 seconds to channel and drained most of a resource pool.

Far as the build you linked goes, even if it does(didn't they nerf Crushing Shock?) good dps...toggles, toggles, toggles. 6 out of 10 slots taken by toggles? You sound reasonable, I'm really not trying to attack you or diminish the efforts of the person putting this build together, but do you really find a build with 4 active slots fine and fun? What do I do for AOE dmg? What happens to offheals? Where do I slot Evil Hunter?
Also, I haven't done (much) testing yet, but doesn't Twilight still die to 2-3 direct hits? The dps test was done on Bloodspawn which is wonderful for a target dummy but even if we talk Spindle...what happens on Praxin fight where you need aoe AND single target and no way tank can keep all the ads off you and pets?

I don't know what you do with your ulti, but I can put down my atronach shortly after it expires, on live. When the Atro is up and I chug a potion I'm closer to 1,7K so 1,4K is the average over the whole fight including the times where my Atronach is not up.

I don't really agree with you about the selfheal, as a tank I rarely use self heals on the classes that have them either. GDB or BOL isn't worth a slot in my tanking setups, but yeah. It's not like Nightblades have anything comparable either and imo not every class should have an instant heal.

Of course the build still works, the nerf to CS will lower dps by 2-3% at most. As said, if you need more flexibility drop Bound Aegis. And no, Twilight doesn't die. It's all about being smart about character builds, and I like that a lot. Myself, I already swap skills between every fight on Live (on every class) because I want the best set up for every single encounter.

Derra wrote: »

Because you have 8 slots occupied with that build + need entropy and fragments. No aoe without switching skills.

FFS, I say remove clannfear then but no that doesn't work for you and then I say keep clannfear but that doesn't work for you. Do you see what I'm saying?

MY Sorc is going to be really good in 1.6, if yours isn't.. well, sucks to be you. Sorry, but that is all I can give you at this point.

Fayaburn wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Exstazik wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ArconSeptim wrote: »

as I said sorcerer style players biggest whiners in the game but have the best dps in game

You either adapt or you don't, but this thread, is not feedback. This thread is the ultimate QQ and can only lead to people getting completely fed up with you. It's not too much to ask for some real in-game examples if you want people to listen to you.

How about the 10000+ times where we gave feedback about how a build requiring to run 3 toggles is not viable? You even included a paragraph about this toggle issue in your extensive post about 1.6...

What about I provide you one single target skill that you spam to reach 12k dps (no more, no less) when you manage to keep entropy up. You will have only 1 slot per bar and can't cast anything than that skill and entropy and at the same time struggle with the broken weapon swap (cooldown inside). Do you still think that would be a viable and nice build? Even if it grants 12k on serpent where other people get 11.5k?

Please don't focus on the crushing shock nerf and other peripheral issues and realize that currently PvE sorcs are trapped in a deep pit caused by bad gamedesign.

If you feel that's too restrictive I'd just drop Bound Aegis. I'm probably gonna do that anyway, sure 5% magicka is nice but it's not like "OH I MUST HAVE IT". Plus in 1.5 you'd pretty much have to have either ele drain and/or spell sym anyway which you could technically drop now so...

Sure, I'd also like more skill slots just like pretty much everyone else, but the difference is I'm not going to say my class(es) is(are) broken as a result. Actually the opposite, imagine these skills are actually so useful that you'd want to have them on your bar now.. that's a huge buff to the skills imo.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-pve-endgame-dps-zappy-mage/

I can't bear having only 2 actives per skill bar. Which is why I worked on this build and am using it on PTS. Yeah I can drop Bound Armor to gain 2 skill slots, however I am losing DPS compared to Nybling's build (1-2k) even before the CS nerf.

And even without sloting bound armor, I cannot use AOE and ST within the same fight. And yes some fights require AOE and ST without allowing to swap skills as you don't leave combat inbetween (e.g. many vet dsa fights).

And btw, you say that magicka sorc is the only build to produce good numbers in ranged ST. I think this is because most people are currently testing/theorycrafting melee stamina builds (other than sorcs that have really bad synergies with PvE 1.6 stamina builds). As soon as more people from other classes start to really try to min-max magicka builds, good numbers will come up as well.

What a revelation, apparently melee builds do better on fights where you can just stand in one spot and bang away. Who would have known?

Oh yes, everyone.

I suggest you go stamina melee yourself, you'll see how "OP" it is.

Derra wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ArconSeptim wrote: »

as I said sorcerer style players biggest whiners in the game but have the best dps in game

You either adapt or you don't, but this thread, is not feedback. This thread is the ultimate QQ and can only lead to people getting completely fed up with you. It's not too much to ask for some real in-game examples if you want people to listen to you.

How about the 10000+ times where we gave feedback about how a build requiring to run 3 toggles is not viable? You even included a paragraph about this toggle issue in your extensive post about 1.6...

What about I provide you one single target skill that you spam to reach 12k dps (no more, no less) when you manage to keep entropy up. You will have only 1 slot per bar and can't cast anything than that skill and entropy and at the same time struggle with the broken weapon swap (cooldown inside). Do you still think that would be a viable and nice build? Even if it grants 12k on serpent where other people get 11.5k?

Please don't focus on the crushing shock nerf and other peripheral issues and realize that currently PvE sorcs are trapped in a deep pit caused by bad gamedesign.

If you feel that's too restrictive I'd just drop Bound Aegis. I'm probably gonna do that anyway, sure 5% magicka is nice but it's not like "OH I MUST HAVE IT". Plus in 1.5 you'd pretty much have to have either ele drain and/or spell sym anyway which you could technically drop now so...

Sure, I'd also like more skill slots just like pretty much everyone else, but the difference is I'm not going to say my class(es) is(are) broken as a result. Actually the opposite, imagine these skills are actually so useful that you'd want to have them on your bar now.. that's a huge buff to the skills imo.

You have to use magelight and both pets. Also both pet buffs. Leaving you with two slots (degen + dd skill). No aoe without switching. No offheal. Edit: I don´t know of any sorc even considering using bound aegis. Its still an absolute garbage skill even with 8% max magica increase.
Also the morph choices you have to make is the opposite of what you would use in pvp (and they render you useless there without pets).

Why on earth would you use the Clannfear? Drop it, not worth having. Twilight is good. There you go, now you only have 2 toggles. Fixed, maybe ZOS can put this fix in the 1.6.3 patch notes.

Sorcerer

• If you don't want to have 3 toggles, don't put 3 toggle skills on your bar.

BTW, I don't have AOE without switching on live either, esp. if you do Sanctum you want different setups for AOE and ST. Get wykkyds outfitter.

Regarding morphs this is the case for many abilities. Not even remotely sorc specific.

I´m using the clannfear because it´s about 1k dps. There is no skill available to compete with that. If you don´t want three toggles - loose (edit: about 10%) dps - nice one.

The sorc morphs are on a whole new level of not usable without its specific niche though. I´ve played many builds. The sorc pet morphs are terrible out of their designed niche context. No other morph choice is even remotely comparable.

If there are no skills that can compete with that, why the hell is it a problem that you have too few skill slots? I really don't get it.

Oh yeah. I guess I will just get some lego mechanism that pushes a single key once every 1.3s to produce same result with such a great gameplay.

I'm a bit confused, is this comment directed to me? I don't think such a build exists, but yeah.

Morvul

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Remember your pets are your primary dps...not those other abilities.

wrong...

while pet's, especially when buffed by all the "pet support" skills provide a significant DPS addition - it's still "those other skills" which provide the majority (as in 70+ %) of DPS...

Derra

Well. We just have to adapt. I can get 9.5k to 10k dps with with a petbuild without ultimates 70 champ points spent on pts - in trial gear setup. This will be around 11 to 12k with decent gear. Around 14 to 15k with either atronarch or overload.
Also the aoe morph of fragments is okish.

It´s not fun but it is a vaible magica ranged build

On a personal note: I hate it. Every aspect of it.

pppontus

Derra wrote: »

Well. We just have to adapt. I can get 9.5k to 10k dps with with a petbuild without ultimates 70 champ points spent on pts - in trial gear setup. This will be around 11 to 12k with decent gear. Around 14 to 15k with either atronarch or overload.
Also the aoe morph of fragments is okish.

It´s not fun but it is a vaible magica ranged build

On a personal note: I hate it. Every aspect of it.

That's alright, everyone has personal opinions on stuff. I hate DPS:ing on my DK even though it's been the best for months, I've played other classes instead. I hope you can find a build you like.

I'll share my build as soon as I get it all figured out, I can guarantee it will only have Inner Light and Twilight as toggles. There is always a way.

Derra

I could build something remotely fun with a masters staff. Have to get one first though.

nun_nonrb19_ESO

pppontus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Well. We just have to adapt. I can get 9.5k to 10k dps with with a petbuild without ultimates 70 champ points spent on pts - in trial gear setup. This will be around 11 to 12k with decent gear. Around 14 to 15k with either atronarch or overload.
Also the aoe morph of fragments is okish.

It´s not fun but it is a vaible magica ranged build

On a personal note: I hate it. Every aspect of it.

That's alright, everyone has personal opinions on stuff. I hate DPS:ing on my DK even though it's been the best for months, I've played other classes instead. I hope you can find a build you like.

I'll share my build as soon as I get it all figured out, I can guarantee it will only have Inner Light and Twilight as toggles. There is always a way.

I admire your defence for a build you got working and like to play with it. But I'm in no way interested in having pets on my skillbar and feel it's dumb game design if ZoS nerfs all aspects of sorc class to make pets desirable.

Have you tried other builds to see if they have any kind of survivability or good DPS output instead of repeating over and over again that this class is just fine due to the fact that you know of a specific build that suits you?

Aletheion

Kingdinguhling wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Anyway, my bigger concern is with stamina sorcerers. Magicka sorcerers at least get the benefit of strong shields. Not that I think magicka sorcerers are in a good place but wtf are stamina sorcerers supposed to do?

I rerolled a stamina sorcerer so that I could have fun with surge and get a ton of weapon damage. Now all classes get access to the exact same thing with Momentum and I don't see any reason to be a sorcerer anymore.

What does a stamina sorcerer have that a templar or a nightblade can't do better?

ANSWER : U LOOK ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS .....

Some might call it a Battle Mage. I call that the "Merlin of the Round Table (jinkies, I always wanted to be a knight)" build.

Gyudan

Fayaburn wrote: »

How about the 10000+ times where we gave feedback about how a build requiring to run 3 toggles is not viable?

pppontus wrote: »

As mentioned, have a look at http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-x-nyblings-magicka-based-sorc-dps-champion-rank-71/ for a build that can clearly push 12K fully sustained and 14K semi-sustained (overload).

"Oh you complain about using 3 toggles? Why don't you try this build with 3 toggles."
This particular build is getting nerfed in 1.6.2 by the way, -2% max magicka from Necropotence and -10% from Force Shock and all its morphs.

daemonios

Alcast wrote: »

I guess ZOS is trying to smth:
Ranged builds approx 8-9k DPS
Melee builds approx 10-12k DPS

The only reason Magick DKs do more dmg because they can apply DoTs.
A ranged Magicka DK also only does 8-9k DPS.
They also nerfed bow, dont forget that.

Ok, so are they trying to drive ALL ranged players away from end-game PvE? I'm sorry, but the "you're ranged, you should hit less" argument is bull. I've said it before: ranged builds don't get immunity from boss/mobs, they have to dodge/block all the same, and they have less armour. I don't want ranged to be the end-all be-all. I just don't understand why we should be less powerful than melee builds. In the end, what I see is that sorcs (whatever their build) are being driven away from trials right now, and I fear this won't change in 1.6. That is unacceptable for me.

pppontus

nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Well. We just have to adapt. I can get 9.5k to 10k dps with with a petbuild without ultimates 70 champ points spent on pts - in trial gear setup. This will be around 11 to 12k with decent gear. Around 14 to 15k with either atronarch or overload.
Also the aoe morph of fragments is okish.

It´s not fun but it is a vaible magica ranged build

On a personal note: I hate it. Every aspect of it.

That's alright, everyone has personal opinions on stuff. I hate DPS:ing on my DK even though it's been the best for months, I've played other classes instead. I hope you can find a build you like.

I'll share my build as soon as I get it all figured out, I can guarantee it will only have Inner Light and Twilight as toggles. There is always a way.

I admire your defence for a build you got working and like to play with it. But I'm in no way interested in having pets on my skillbar and feel it's dumb game design if ZoS nerfs all aspects of sorc class to make pets desirable.

Have you tried other builds to see if they have any kind of survivability or good DPS output instead of repeating over and over again that this class is just fine due to the fact that you know of a specific build that suits you?

You know, this is how things work. You can't make a DW build without Flurry, you can't make a 2H build without Uppercut, you can't make a Bow build without Snipe. If you do, you're gimped.

I'm sorry, but if I don't like how a class plays I just play something else. There's always going to be a most effective way of playing, and if that upsets you then that's just a different problem. Doesn't mean the class itself is broken.

xherics

I know, that I am not the best, but I make my opinion based my tests (more months). And now on PTS I did the same for few days.

As I said, prove it, or it never happened ;-) I already proved it few times, what I can do...

If you show me a video of unbelievable things what you are talking about, I will agree and move my claw in front of you ;-)

@pppontus‌

Derra

xherics wrote: »

I know, that I am not the best, but I make my opinion based my tests (more months).

As I said, prove it, or it never happened ;-) I already proved it few times, what I can do...

If you show me a video of unbelievable things what you are talking about, I will agree and move my claw in front of you ;-)

@pppontus‌

I will show you next week when the eu chars get copied again.

pppontus

xherics wrote: »

I know, that I am not the best, but I make my opinion based my tests (more months).

As I said, prove it, or it never happened ;-) I already proved it few times, what I can do...

If you show me a video of unbelievable things what you are talking about, I will agree and move my claw in front of you ;-)

@pppontus‌

I don't know what moving your claw means, but I already promised if I get the chance to play my Sorc in a raid before 1.6 I'll happily screenshot my DPS after a real fight.

I'll look through my screenshots folder when I get home just in case I already have one, but I usually don't remember to save these..

It doesn't really matter to me, honestly, you don't have to believe me. I can live with a stranger on the internet thinking I'm lying, that's OK with me.

Either way, this is all about 1.6 and I foresee a lot more playtime on my Sorcerer in the future.

Gyudan wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

How about the 10000+ times where we gave feedback about how a build requiring to run 3 toggles is not viable?

pppontus wrote: »

As mentioned, have a look at http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-x-nyblings-magicka-based-sorc-dps-champion-rank-71/ for a build that can clearly push 12K fully sustained and 14K semi-sustained (overload).

"Oh you complain about using 3 toggles? Why don't you try this build with 3 toggles."
This particular build is getting nerfed in 1.6.2 by the way, -2% max magicka from Necropotence and -10% from Force Shock and all its morphs.

LOL, I didn't even think about that. Anyway, dropping Bound Aegis is still gonna be awesome. I don't agree with his gear choices and I'm pretty confident full spell power gear will give this build a lot more damage overall, but we'll see about that. It's still a loooot stronger than any other ranged build I've seen. Bow does 8k, magicka NB and DK ranged ~9k. Compare apples (ranged) to apples, not candy (melee). Candy is tasty but it's still bad for you and everyone can't live on it. @Gyudan‌

daemonios wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

I guess ZOS is trying to smth:
Ranged builds approx 8-9k DPS
Melee builds approx 10-12k DPS

The only reason Magick DKs do more dmg because they can apply DoTs.
A ranged Magicka DK also only does 8-9k DPS.
They also nerfed bow, dont forget that.

Ok, so are they trying to drive ALL ranged players away from end-game PvE? I'm sorry, but the "you're ranged, you should hit less" argument is bull. I've said it before: ranged builds don't get immunity from boss/mobs, they have to dodge/block all the same, and they have less armour. I don't want ranged to be the end-all be-all. I just don't understand why we should be less powerful than melee builds. In the end, what I see is that sorcs (whatever their build) are being driven away from trials right now, and I fear this won't change in 1.6. That is unacceptable for me.

Because melee should be about 10% stronger as there are many fights where they have to spend 10% more time not attacking the boss at all. Seriously, I've played a lot of melee and you wouldn't believe how much downtime it has where you can't even attack bosses. Not to mention the fact that it is completely impossible in many fights to have 9 people melee. @daemonios‌

manny254

nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Well. We just have to adapt. I can get 9.5k to 10k dps with with a petbuild without ultimates 70 champ points spent on pts - in trial gear setup. This will be around 11 to 12k with decent gear. Around 14 to 15k with either atronarch or overload.
Also the aoe morph of fragments is okish.

It´s not fun but it is a vaible magica ranged build

On a personal note: I hate it. Every aspect of it.

That's alright, everyone has personal opinions on stuff. I hate DPS:ing on my DK even though it's been the best for months, I've played other classes instead. I hope you can find a build you like.

I'll share my build as soon as I get it all figured out, I can guarantee it will only have Inner Light and Twilight as toggles. There is always a way.

I admire your defence for a build you got working and like to play with it. But I'm in no way interested in having pets on my skillbar and feel it's dumb game design if ZoS nerfs all aspects of sorc class to make pets desirable.

Have you tried other builds to see if they have any kind of survivability or good DPS output instead of repeating over and over again that this class is just fine due to the fact that you know of a specific build that suits you?

So let me get this straight. An ability on your bar does damage without you doing anything. Allow you to focus on other things a rotation, but you don't want this because your to good for it. Silly also ppl don't knock the overload thing until you try it and get a personal feel for it.

Gyudan

If you want to see Eric Wrobel (Combat lead) play a magicka sorc, try this around 1:15:00. (ESO Live, November 17th)

Watch and be amazed at those heavy attacks, the absence of Flawless Dawnbreaker, the non-existing animation canceling and the "I have no magicka left, full health but I won't use spell symmetry" attitude.
Priceless

pppontus

Gyudan wrote: »

If you want to see Eric Wrobel (Combat lead) play a magicka sorc, try this around 1:15:00. (ESO Live, November 17th)

Watch and be amazed at those heavy attacks, the absence of Flawless Dawnbreaker, the non-existing animation canceling and the "I have no magicka left, full health but I won't use spell symmetry" attitude.
Priceless

I've always known ZOS can't play. Imagine him with a DK DOT build.

nun_nonrb19_ESO

pppontus wrote: »

nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Well. We just have to adapt. I can get 9.5k to 10k dps with with a petbuild without ultimates 70 champ points spent on pts - in trial gear setup. This will be around 11 to 12k with decent gear. Around 14 to 15k with either atronarch or overload.
Also the aoe morph of fragments is okish.

It´s not fun but it is a vaible magica ranged build

On a personal note: I hate it. Every aspect of it.

That's alright, everyone has personal opinions on stuff. I hate DPS:ing on my DK even though it's been the best for months, I've played other classes instead. I hope you can find a build you like.

I'll share my build as soon as I get it all figured out, I can guarantee it will only have Inner Light and Twilight as toggles. There is always a way.

I admire your defence for a build you got working and like to play with it. But I'm in no way interested in having pets on my skillbar and feel it's dumb game design if ZoS nerfs all aspects of sorc class to make pets desirable.

Have you tried other builds to see if they have any kind of survivability or good DPS output instead of repeating over and over again that this class is just fine due to the fact that you know of a specific build that suits you?

You know, this is how things work. You can't make a DW build without Flurry, you can't make a 2H build without Uppercut, you can't make a Bow build without Snipe. If you do, you're gimped.

I'm sorry, but if I don't like how a class plays I just play something else. There's always going to be a most effective way of playing, and if that upsets you then that's just a different problem. Doesn't mean the class itself is broken.

All the other examples you mention but one skill line that they have to use. On a pet build either 4 or 6 out of 10 are needed. If you don't think that's a flawed design then you should less skooma. And once again, if the class has only one viable build then it broken for a game that promotes playing the way you want to. Also, are you sure a pet build is useful/though after for trials and endgame content?

Xsorus

nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Well. We just have to adapt. I can get 9.5k to 10k dps with with a petbuild without ultimates 70 champ points spent on pts - in trial gear setup. This will be around 11 to 12k with decent gear. Around 14 to 15k with either atronarch or overload.
Also the aoe morph of fragments is okish.

It´s not fun but it is a vaible magica ranged build

On a personal note: I hate it. Every aspect of it.

That's alright, everyone has personal opinions on stuff. I hate DPS:ing on my DK even though it's been the best for months, I've played other classes instead. I hope you can find a build you like.

I'll share my build as soon as I get it all figured out, I can guarantee it will only have Inner Light and Twilight as toggles. There is always a way.

I admire your defence for a build you got working and like to play with it. But I'm in no way interested in having pets on my skillbar and feel it's dumb game design if ZoS nerfs all aspects of sorc class to make pets desirable.

Have you tried other builds to see if they have any kind of survivability or good DPS output instead of repeating over and over again that this class is just fine due to the fact that you know of a specific build that suits you?

You know, this is how things work. You can't make a DW build without Flurry, you can't make a 2H build without Uppercut, you can't make a Bow build without Snipe. If you do, you're gimped.

I'm sorry, but if I don't like how a class plays I just play something else. There's always going to be a most effective way of playing, and if that upsets you then that's just a different problem. Doesn't mean the class itself is broken.

All the other examples you mention but one skill line that they have to use. On a pet build either 4 or 6 out of 10 are needed. If you don't think that's a flawed design then you should less skooma. And once again, if the class has only one viable build then it broken for a game that promotes playing the way you want to. Also, are you sure a pet build is useful/though after for trials and endgame content?

Only Pet build isn't your only viable build.