1.6.2 Sorc Magicka Builds Still Ruined!!! I'm Done! ZoS Read!

Kingdinguhling · February 2015

Snit wrote: »

ZOS is not going to undertake a fundamental class/ tree redesign this close to console launch. Our best path forward is not to dream of that, but to provide feedback and practical suggestions regarding what's actually on the test server.

I don't think that ZOS can undertake redesigning an entire class but I do believe they can easily redesign the 5 abilities and 4 passives to the PET tree into a new tree that's completely based around another form of DPS other than pets. Might take a month or two but I bet they could get close.

I don't really care for pets and if it means pets or diversity of builds for SORC then I truly believe we need to just diversify builds and get rid of pets.

I went through the same things in Diablo 3.... Nerfing builds that where overpowered rather than buffing other abilities that could generate competitive builds.

Now for the people who want pets in the game.... I am going to guess but i am pretty sure they are new players that believe they are neat and great for leveling solo. But you wont keep long term or competitive players with pets. There has to be competitive different builds within a class to keep a player interested in that class. (Playing that class a different way)

As for pets themselves. I think pets in ESO are really basic compared to other MMOs I've played like FFXIV or FFXI (And those pets where done right). This just simply doesn't hold a candle to that and is not something most players are going to use in endgame. And pets in PVP are useless in almost any MMO unless they are ranged or a healing pet.

No one wants to only have PET BUILDS for sorc and that seems to be where this is going. whether you are using 1 2 or 3 pets it seems ZOS wants us to use them in some way. This is also a very small group that wants to see better pets.

Sure you announce that you where going to undertake buffing and fixing pets and sorc players got excited so a lot of positive feedback was raised from a lot of us... BUT... If this is what it means. I think it was taken the wrong way.

The class was a NEGATE BOT and NOW its a PET BOT.

AND SORC is not a STAMINA based class to me. Only reason sorc should have stamina to me is for dodge, roll, block, and sprint or possibly for tanking and helping with blocking resource management.

We want to blow our opponents or enemies up with ranged magic or melee Magic super bursty and agile magic slingers. Or on the other hand tank with magicka shields and enfeebling enmity.

IF ZOS UN-nerfed Bolt Escape and fixed Crit. Surge to where it could be a significant heal then people would at least be able to survive in moderately tough content. At this moment I see no way for Sorc's to survive other than WARD spam while tossing pets at mobs. I wish they would remove the restriction of casting and blocking from Dark Exchange because you take a class that is mostly supposed to be agile and paper thin. And then restrict it from casting shields or blocking it makes this ability a more of a hindrance than a blessing.

Kingdinguhling · February 2015

Gyudan wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Anyway, my bigger concern is with stamina sorcerers. Magicka sorcerers at least get the benefit of strong shields. Not that I think magicka sorcerers are in a good place but wtf are stamina sorcerers supposed to do?

I rerolled a stamina sorcerer so that I could have fun with surge and get a ton of weapon damage. Now all classes get access to the exact same thing with Momentum and I don't see any reason to be a sorcerer anymore.

What does a stamina sorcerer have that a templar or a nightblade can't do better?

ANSWER : U LOOK ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS .....

Snit · February 2015

Sorcerer abilities are still designed almost exclusively for magicka DPS. The class skills just don't offer much to a stamina build.

I feel like a fool for leveling a sorc 2-H warrior, instead of my DK. It is foolish. Happily, it's just a computer game, so I can always go do something else.

TheBull · February 2015

Snit wrote: »

Sorcerer abilities are still designed almost exclusively for magicka DPS. The class skills just don't offer much to a stamina build.

I feel like a fool for leveling a sorc 2-H warrior, instead of my DK. It is foolish. Happily, it's just a computer game, so I can always go do something else.

I happen to like my v4 2h stam sorcerer. If it wasn't for 10 more vet levels I'd be playing him. Anything is possible with streak, surge, boundless storm, and ward. Hell with rally and surge he has almost as much weapon dmg as my v14 main.

Why don't more sorcerers use boundless storm? Is it because ward is so good? Storm + Immovable or bound armor, suddenly a sorcerer has more armor and resist than a tank.

Snit · February 2015

TheBull wrote: »

Hell with rally and surge he has almost as much weapon dmg as my v14 main

I don't think those are supposed to stack.

TheBull · February 2015

Snit wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Hell with rally and surge he has almost as much weapon dmg as my v14 main

I don't think those are supposed to stack.

Ah, true in 1.6 they do not.

Edit- WTF ZOS YOU BROKE MY SORC !!'

Exstazik · February 2015

Sorc Breton:
Destro

Sorc Redguard:
Bow:

Compare DPS:
BOW
Acid spray 3961+2112 (over 5 sec)=4383 every 1 sec +snare 40%
Poijon Injection 3601+5655 (over 10 sec)=925,6 every 1 sec
Focused aim 9 000 (+15% from long range+if crit ~15k)

Destro:
Forse pulse:1689*3=5067
Crystal Fragment:8436 (10123 if proc)
Pulsar 3392

So stamina > magicka not only for 2h

XEVENEX · February 2015

"You know whats OP? Crushing Shock. We should nerf it by at least 10%. That will fix everything."

"What about reflecting ultimates, or block casting?"

"Nah, just Crushing Shock."

sput4ueb17_ESO · February 2015

Zos why are you bothering with Sorcerer??? I cant understand . You dont want to fix it ???
Just remove the class

ArconSeptim · February 2015

as I said sorcerer style players biggest whiners in the game

but have the best dps in game

sput4ueb17_ESO · February 2015

ArconSeptim wrote: »

as I said sorcerer style players biggest whiners in the game but have the best dps in game

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

Derra · February 2015

Vis wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

rogue_gamer32b14_ESO wrote: »

Agree'd completely. ZoS needs to simply remove the pets from the tree completely. Rebuild the tree from the ground up.

or

Improve the tree by revamping pets completely. We don't want to summon lesser daedra. And the pets need more control. Pets should have their own bar, stats, and abilities. If ZoS can't do this, then the pet tree doesn't need to exist at all.

My Rift necromancer had fun pets that were highly useful, even in PvP.

That build may just be the best MMO experience of my entire gaming life. It was a sincere pleasure playing a true DOT class and knowing someone was already dead long before they had realized it.

Off topic ... but such nostalgia. Before they nerfed it to death!

That´s the problem with "true" dot classes. They are not idiot friendly and tend to frustrate unexperienced players much more than direct damage builds. I don´t see it happening in eso especially because of the terrible UI.

Playing against a dot class with only visual cues on your character that half of the time get swallowed by the particle system would be infuriating.

Derra · February 2015

Nybling wrote: »

xherics wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

I just watched a sorc get 14k dps with a caster build. Before you ask they had 90 champion points spent.

Build and rotation pls?

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-x-nyblings-magicka-based-sorc-dps-champion-rank-71/page/4/#post-567158

The current last post in thread.

I want to see this man to do the DPS for more than 100 seconds... Impossible, the dps drops to 8k all the time...

I think you underestimate how sustainable overload is. Light Attacks w/ Overload regenerate Ultimate. After a minute I still had almost 700 ultimate left and that was with constant weaving after each crystal frags.

Overload light attacks were only able to be weaved in 1.6.0 in 1.6.1 this was removed and the dmg was buffed by 50%.
So what you did was essentially 1 overload 1 shard. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Xsorus · February 2015

rogue_gamer32b14_ESO wrote: »

Nybling wrote: »

xherics wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

I just watched a sorc get 14k dps with a caster build. Before you ask they had 90 champion points spent.

Build and rotation pls?

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-x-nyblings-magicka-based-sorc-dps-champion-rank-71/page/4/#post-567158

The current last post in thread.

I want to see this man to do the DPS for more than 100 seconds... Impossible, the dps drops to 8k all the time...

I think you underestimate how sustainable overload is. Light Attacks w/ Overload regenerate Ultimate. After a minute I still had almost 700 ultimate left and that was with constant weaving after each crystal frags.

Nybling...not trying to be rude. However you're the same person champing pet builds along with Erlexx on Tamriel Foundry. I don't think anyone here respects you for that or that you are helping the further downfall of our class.

If you hadn't noticed. The major of the people who play this class, are seriously unhappy with it, and we are all calling for change. This thread alone is proof of that.

Overload is bugged and has been reported 101 times. It will be fixed.

As a member of Entropy Rising you have the Developers ear some what. You of all people should be using to pull out class out of the dump.

Let's be honest here, most of you wont be happy with the sorc till you have the best dps, healing, tanking, mobility in the game. Frankly I'm getting tired of people whining about pet builds just like nightblades who whined their class sucked and would always say something moronic like "they're nightBLADES not nightSTAFFS."

It gets old and your class doesn't suck so quit whining.

meaglar · February 2015

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Let's be honest here, most of you wont be happy with the sorc till you have the best dps, healing, tanking, mobility in the game. Frankly I'm getting tired of people whining about pet builds just like nightblades who whined their class sucked and would always say something moronic like "they're nightBLADES not nightSTAFFS."

It gets old and your class doesn't suck so quit whining.

The first part of your post is just assumptions, and second part is just not true in some cases.

Is that really too hard to understand, that balancing PVP is a thing, seeing the positon of sorcerers in PVE is another thing. I personally totally support, that anything sould be done to have balance in PVP (that includes downgrading sorcerers or related skills in a proper way), but I cannot see the same approach for making the sorcerer a desirable class for PVE (not the top one... no need that at all... just a desirable one... lets say just a competitive one...)

Choosing a sorcerer will not give you anything but lack of DPS in PVE... You won't be the healer of the group, you won't be the tank of the group, and you will be the lowest DPS of your group. Does that realy sound right to you?

To repeat, threat PVP and PVE seperately, and understand our lack in PVE while balancing the PVP if/whenever it is needed...

Derra · February 2015

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

rogue_gamer32b14_ESO wrote: »

Nybling wrote: »

xherics wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

I just watched a sorc get 14k dps with a caster build. Before you ask they had 90 champion points spent.

Build and rotation pls?

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-x-nyblings-magicka-based-sorc-dps-champion-rank-71/page/4/#post-567158

The current last post in thread.

I want to see this man to do the DPS for more than 100 seconds... Impossible, the dps drops to 8k all the time...

I think you underestimate how sustainable overload is. Light Attacks w/ Overload regenerate Ultimate. After a minute I still had almost 700 ultimate left and that was with constant weaving after each crystal frags.

Nybling...not trying to be rude. However you're the same person champing pet builds along with Erlexx on Tamriel Foundry. I don't think anyone here respects you for that or that you are helping the further downfall of our class.

If you hadn't noticed. The major of the people who play this class, are seriously unhappy with it, and we are all calling for change. This thread alone is proof of that.

Overload is bugged and has been reported 101 times. It will be fixed.

As a member of Entropy Rising you have the Developers ear some what. You of all people should be using to pull out class out of the dump.

Let's be honest here, most of you wont be happy with the sorc till you have the best dps, healing, tanking, mobility in the game. Frankly I'm getting tired of people whining about pet builds just like nightblades who whined their class sucked and would always say something moronic like "they're nightBLADES not nightSTAFFS."

It gets old and your class doesn't suck so quit whining.

It has nothing to do with ppl being unreasonable about their class. It has legit problems in pve (dps not being one of them if you´re playing pets admittedly).

The only problem i (personally) have with petbuilds is that they offer zero variety.
You have 6 slots out of ten given away for toggles. Two more musthaves for the pet buffs. Then you HAVE to slot either surge or entropy (entropy is the obvious choice for pve here).That leaves you with 1 damage ability to slot from your normal bar and maybe 2 ability slots on your overload bar. Also the best singletarget build won´t be able to slot aoe abilities at all without switching skills.
One skill up to personal preference (crystal blast is still the obvious choice here) is a little stupid.
Also these kind of build offers no grp utility whatsoever apart from 10% magica reg (you don´t even have the option to slot an offheal).

The biggest annoyance however is that you can under no circumstance have a build like that and pvp on the same character without respeccing morphs. PvP requires hardened ward (pet build needs empowered). PvP requires velocious curse (pet build requires daedric prey). PvP requires fragments (pet build should slot blast bc you cant procc it anyway and need aoe). PvP uses volatile familar (pet build requires clannfear bc of double the dps of familar). PvP would use twilight matriarch (pet build requires restoring for grp sustain and it does more dmg). Magelight is debatable.

No other class has to choose between most of their core abilities if they want to pve or pvp. A player doing both will have to respec every time he does one or the other. This is my biggest problem with petbuilds atm.

Xsorus · February 2015

Derra wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

rogue_gamer32b14_ESO wrote: »

Nybling wrote: »

xherics wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

I just watched a sorc get 14k dps with a caster build. Before you ask they had 90 champion points spent.

Build and rotation pls?

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-x-nyblings-magicka-based-sorc-dps-champion-rank-71/page/4/#post-567158

The current last post in thread.

I want to see this man to do the DPS for more than 100 seconds... Impossible, the dps drops to 8k all the time...

I think you underestimate how sustainable overload is. Light Attacks w/ Overload regenerate Ultimate. After a minute I still had almost 700 ultimate left and that was with constant weaving after each crystal frags.

Nybling...not trying to be rude. However you're the same person champing pet builds along with Erlexx on Tamriel Foundry. I don't think anyone here respects you for that or that you are helping the further downfall of our class.

If you hadn't noticed. The major of the people who play this class, are seriously unhappy with it, and we are all calling for change. This thread alone is proof of that.

Overload is bugged and has been reported 101 times. It will be fixed.

As a member of Entropy Rising you have the Developers ear some what. You of all people should be using to pull out class out of the dump.

Let's be honest here, most of you wont be happy with the sorc till you have the best dps, healing, tanking, mobility in the game. Frankly I'm getting tired of people whining about pet builds just like nightblades who whined their class sucked and would always say something moronic like "they're nightBLADES not nightSTAFFS."

It gets old and your class doesn't suck so quit whining.

It has nothing to do with ppl being unreasonable about their class. It has legit problems in pve (dps not being one of them if you´re playing pets admittedly).

The only problem i (personally) have with petbuilds is that they offer zero variety.
You have 6 slots out of ten given away for toggles. Two more musthaves for the pet buffs. Then you HAVE to slot either surge or entropy (entropy is the obvious choice for pve here).That leaves you with 1 damage ability to slot from your normal bar and maybe 2 ability slots on your overload bar. Also the best singletarget build won´t be able to slot aoe abilities at all without switching skills.
One skill up to personal preference (crystal blast is still the obvious choice here) is a little stupid.
Also these kind of build offers no grp utility whatsoever apart from 10% magica reg (you don´t even have the option to slot an offheal).

The biggest annoyance however is that you can under no circumstance have a build like that and pvp on the same character without respeccing morphs. PvP requires hardened ward (pet build needs empowered). PvP requires velocious curse (pet build requires daedric prey). PvP requires fragments (pet build should slot blast bc you cant procc it anyway and need aoe). PvP uses volatile familar (pet build requires clannfear bc of double the dps of familar). PvP would use twilight matriarch (pet build requires restoring for grp sustain and it does more dmg). Magelight is debatable.

No other class has to choose between most of their core abilities if they want to pve or pvp. A player doing both will have to respec every time he does one or the other. This is my biggest problem with petbuilds atm.

Oh please, variety bit is a joke, you realize on live right in dungeons when I'm doing dps with dual bow i have one bar with snipe, poison injection, and another with arrow spray and scorched earth, and both bar usually have evil dead and siphoning attacks, and my last ability is usually something like piercing mark or shades. 90% of the time I'm spamming one ability, and that's eithet snipe on single target pulls or acid spray on aoe pulls. So complaining you have one dps ability is pointless, because most setups are that way unless they're dot builds.

Oh and here is the kicker, bow actually isn't good dps on pts and most of us stamina users will either end up spamming wrecking blow or a dot build with dual wield.

Derra · February 2015

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

rogue_gamer32b14_ESO wrote: »

Nybling wrote: »

xherics wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

I just watched a sorc get 14k dps with a caster build. Before you ask they had 90 champion points spent.

Build and rotation pls?

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-x-nyblings-magicka-based-sorc-dps-champion-rank-71/page/4/#post-567158

The current last post in thread.

I want to see this man to do the DPS for more than 100 seconds... Impossible, the dps drops to 8k all the time...

I think you underestimate how sustainable overload is. Light Attacks w/ Overload regenerate Ultimate. After a minute I still had almost 700 ultimate left and that was with constant weaving after each crystal frags.

Nybling...not trying to be rude. However you're the same person champing pet builds along with Erlexx on Tamriel Foundry. I don't think anyone here respects you for that or that you are helping the further downfall of our class.

If you hadn't noticed. The major of the people who play this class, are seriously unhappy with it, and we are all calling for change. This thread alone is proof of that.

Overload is bugged and has been reported 101 times. It will be fixed.

As a member of Entropy Rising you have the Developers ear some what. You of all people should be using to pull out class out of the dump.

Let's be honest here, most of you wont be happy with the sorc till you have the best dps, healing, tanking, mobility in the game. Frankly I'm getting tired of people whining about pet builds just like nightblades who whined their class sucked and would always say something moronic like "they're nightBLADES not nightSTAFFS."

It gets old and your class doesn't suck so quit whining.

It has nothing to do with ppl being unreasonable about their class. It has legit problems in pve (dps not being one of them if you´re playing pets admittedly).

The only problem i (personally) have with petbuilds is that they offer zero variety.
You have 6 slots out of ten given away for toggles. Two more musthaves for the pet buffs. Then you HAVE to slot either surge or entropy (entropy is the obvious choice for pve here).That leaves you with 1 damage ability to slot from your normal bar and maybe 2 ability slots on your overload bar. Also the best singletarget build won´t be able to slot aoe abilities at all without switching skills.
One skill up to personal preference (crystal blast is still the obvious choice here) is a little stupid.
Also these kind of build offers no grp utility whatsoever apart from 10% magica reg (you don´t even have the option to slot an offheal).

The biggest annoyance however is that you can under no circumstance have a build like that and pvp on the same character without respeccing morphs. PvP requires hardened ward (pet build needs empowered). PvP requires velocious curse (pet build requires daedric prey). PvP requires fragments (pet build should slot blast bc you cant procc it anyway and need aoe). PvP uses volatile familar (pet build requires clannfear bc of double the dps of familar). PvP would use twilight matriarch (pet build requires restoring for grp sustain and it does more dmg). Magelight is debatable.

No other class has to choose between most of their core abilities if they want to pve or pvp. A player doing both will have to respec every time he does one or the other. This is my biggest problem with petbuilds atm.

Oh please, variety bit is a joke, you realize on live right in dungeons when I'm doing dps with dual bow i have one bar with snipe, poison injection, and another with arrow spray and scorched earth, and both bar usually have evil dead and siphoning attacks, and my last ability is usually something like piercing mark or shades. 90% of the time I'm spamming one ability, and that's eithet snipe on single target pulls or acid spray on aoe pulls. So complaining you have one dps ability is pointless, because most setups are that way unless they're dot builds.

Oh and here is the kicker, bow actually isn't good dps on pts and most of us stamina users will either end up spamming wrecking blow or a dot build with dual wield.

Nice. You realize that you can slot AoE and singletarget? A pet build is not able to do even that.
Also thanks for ignoring my second point completely.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

Xsorus · February 2015

Derra wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

rogue_gamer32b14_ESO wrote: »

Nybling wrote: »

xherics wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

I just watched a sorc get 14k dps with a caster build. Before you ask they had 90 champion points spent.

Build and rotation pls?

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-x-nyblings-magicka-based-sorc-dps-champion-rank-71/page/4/#post-567158

The current last post in thread.

I want to see this man to do the DPS for more than 100 seconds... Impossible, the dps drops to 8k all the time...

I think you underestimate how sustainable overload is. Light Attacks w/ Overload regenerate Ultimate. After a minute I still had almost 700 ultimate left and that was with constant weaving after each crystal frags.

Nybling...not trying to be rude. However you're the same person champing pet builds along with Erlexx on Tamriel Foundry. I don't think anyone here respects you for that or that you are helping the further downfall of our class.

If you hadn't noticed. The major of the people who play this class, are seriously unhappy with it, and we are all calling for change. This thread alone is proof of that.

Overload is bugged and has been reported 101 times. It will be fixed.

As a member of Entropy Rising you have the Developers ear some what. You of all people should be using to pull out class out of the dump.

Let's be honest here, most of you wont be happy with the sorc till you have the best dps, healing, tanking, mobility in the game. Frankly I'm getting tired of people whining about pet builds just like nightblades who whined their class sucked and would always say something moronic like "they're nightBLADES not nightSTAFFS."

It gets old and your class doesn't suck so quit whining.

It has nothing to do with ppl being unreasonable about their class. It has legit problems in pve (dps not being one of them if you´re playing pets admittedly).

The only problem i (personally) have with petbuilds is that they offer zero variety.
You have 6 slots out of ten given away for toggles. Two more musthaves for the pet buffs. Then you HAVE to slot either surge or entropy (entropy is the obvious choice for pve here).That leaves you with 1 damage ability to slot from your normal bar and maybe 2 ability slots on your overload bar. Also the best singletarget build won´t be able to slot aoe abilities at all without switching skills.
One skill up to personal preference (crystal blast is still the obvious choice here) is a little stupid.
Also these kind of build offers no grp utility whatsoever apart from 10% magica reg (you don´t even have the option to slot an offheal).

The biggest annoyance however is that you can under no circumstance have a build like that and pvp on the same character without respeccing morphs. PvP requires hardened ward (pet build needs empowered). PvP requires velocious curse (pet build requires daedric prey). PvP requires fragments (pet build should slot blast bc you cant procc it anyway and need aoe). PvP uses volatile familar (pet build requires clannfear bc of double the dps of familar). PvP would use twilight matriarch (pet build requires restoring for grp sustain and it does more dmg). Magelight is debatable.

No other class has to choose between most of their core abilities if they want to pve or pvp. A player doing both will have to respec every time he does one or the other. This is my biggest problem with petbuilds atm.

Oh please, variety bit is a joke, you realize on live right in dungeons when I'm doing dps with dual bow i have one bar with snipe, poison injection, and another with arrow spray and scorched earth, and both bar usually have evil dead and siphoning attacks, and my last ability is usually something like piercing mark or shades. 90% of the time I'm spamming one ability, and that's eithet snipe on single target pulls or acid spray on aoe pulls. So complaining you have one dps ability is pointless, because most setups are that way unless they're dot builds.

Oh and here is the kicker, bow actually isn't good dps on pts and most of us stamina users will either end up spamming wrecking blow or a dot build with dual wield.

Nice. You realize that you can slot AoE and singletarget? A pet build is not able to do even that.
Also thanks for ignoring my second point completely.

I slot single target and aoe by using 2 bows, something you can do with two staves. I also find your second point silly simple because I run lethal arrow which isn't as good as focused aim which would wield more dps and I'd prefer to use venom arrow over poison injection but it's simply to big of a dps increase in pve not to have it. if also prefer bombard for pvp but again I have to have acid spray, scorched earth is only one that's not a problem simply because it's awful for pvp and isn't in consideration. Evil dead is another ability that while great for pve is much rather have camo hunter, so pet build isn't the only one making concessions on pve and pvp.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Darkintellect · February 2015

TL;DR - Make the Sorcerer Daedric Summoning line like DAoC's Theurgist.

As a long time player of the TES series since its inception in '94 (I will admit I was born and grew up in Bethesda so it was a pride issue when buying the game) I have always loved the conjuration tree at least with respect to it in Morrowind and on. I'm also a long time MMO player from the UO/EQ/DAoC days.

I currently play a Nightblade healer and I'm loving that but when I was testing in beta, I noticed that the pets for the Sorcerer were permanent. This concept irked me a bit and as the game went live, they became exactly what I had envisioned.

They were limited, weak and had too many detriments to include taking up a consistent slot and not having any real use for 50+ content.

I then had an idea which I'll discuss later. As the game continued and 1.6 released on PTS, I tested the feature out and still found that regardless of how this system is implemented, if it's maintained as a consistent pet, there will be too many factors that play into it as being too powerful or too weak.

What I propose is this; treat the Daedric Summoning as it is in the single player games, allow them to expire with time. However, change their function in such a way that you can cast any of the 3 pets as often as you want. With their current cast time, but as the pet is summoned at the target, it has a duration specified by balance. Anywhere from 5 seconds to 15, it could be anything and could possibly be altered with certain buffs or passives.

A similar class had this in Dark Age of Camelot called the Theurgist and it is one of the most unique class designs I have ever played; your direct damage spells in physical form.

Familiar - (28 range) Allows you to summon a familiar at the target for 10 seconds, it will close to the target and at 20 meters, launch fireballs at the target which does immediate damage and damage over time.
Clanfer - (28 range) Allows you to summon a clanfer at target for 10 seconds, it will charge the target and periodically utilize a tail sweep snaring the target by 30% for 2 seconds.
Winged Twilight - (28 range) Allows you to summon a winged twilight which closes to the target to 15 meters and launch a gust of wind which does damage and stuns the target for 1 second.

Now, for attunement reasons, you can either adjust to where you can summon as many as you want in the given time where the decay caps the number, or you can allow only one of each and they do a far larger amount of damage.

This system allows the daedric summoning tree to be at comparable level with the other two trees in terms of design and usefulness.

I hope to hear some input from the masses.

Thank you.

Maulkin · February 2015

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

rogue_gamer32b14_ESO wrote: »

Nybling wrote: »

xherics wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

I just watched a sorc get 14k dps with a caster build. Before you ask they had 90 champion points spent.

Build and rotation pls?

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-x-nyblings-magicka-based-sorc-dps-champion-rank-71/page/4/#post-567158

The current last post in thread.

I want to see this man to do the DPS for more than 100 seconds... Impossible, the dps drops to 8k all the time...

I think you underestimate how sustainable overload is. Light Attacks w/ Overload regenerate Ultimate. After a minute I still had almost 700 ultimate left and that was with constant weaving after each crystal frags.

Nybling...not trying to be rude. However you're the same person champing pet builds along with Erlexx on Tamriel Foundry. I don't think anyone here respects you for that or that you are helping the further downfall of our class.

If you hadn't noticed. The major of the people who play this class, are seriously unhappy with it, and we are all calling for change. This thread alone is proof of that.

Overload is bugged and has been reported 101 times. It will be fixed.

As a member of Entropy Rising you have the Developers ear some what. You of all people should be using to pull out class out of the dump.

Let's be honest here, most of you wont be happy with the sorc till you have the best dps, healing, tanking, mobility in the game. Frankly I'm getting tired of people whining about pet builds just like nightblades who whined their class sucked and would always say something moronic like "they're nightBLADES not nightSTAFFS."

It gets old and your class doesn't suck so quit whining.

It has nothing to do with ppl being unreasonable about their class. It has legit problems in pve (dps not being one of them if you´re playing pets admittedly).

The only problem i (personally) have with petbuilds is that they offer zero variety.
You have 6 slots out of ten given away for toggles. Two more musthaves for the pet buffs. Then you HAVE to slot either surge or entropy (entropy is the obvious choice for pve here).That leaves you with 1 damage ability to slot from your normal bar and maybe 2 ability slots on your overload bar. Also the best singletarget build won´t be able to slot aoe abilities at all without switching skills.
One skill up to personal preference (crystal blast is still the obvious choice here) is a little stupid.
Also these kind of build offers no grp utility whatsoever apart from 10% magica reg (you don´t even have the option to slot an offheal).

The biggest annoyance however is that you can under no circumstance have a build like that and pvp on the same character without respeccing morphs. PvP requires hardened ward (pet build needs empowered). PvP requires velocious curse (pet build requires daedric prey). PvP requires fragments (pet build should slot blast bc you cant procc it anyway and need aoe). PvP uses volatile familar (pet build requires clannfear bc of double the dps of familar). PvP would use twilight matriarch (pet build requires restoring for grp sustain and it does more dmg). Magelight is debatable.

No other class has to choose between most of their core abilities if they want to pve or pvp. A player doing both will have to respec every time he does one or the other. This is my biggest problem with petbuilds atm.

Oh please, variety bit is a joke, you realize on live right in dungeons when I'm doing dps with dual bow i have one bar with snipe, poison injection, and another with arrow spray and scorched earth, and both bar usually have evil dead and siphoning attacks, and my last ability is usually something like piercing mark or shades. 90% of the time I'm spamming one ability, and that's eithet snipe on single target pulls or acid spray on aoe pulls. So complaining you have one dps ability is pointless, because most setups are that way unless they're dot builds.

Oh and here is the kicker, bow actually isn't good dps on pts and most of us stamina users will either end up spamming wrecking blow or a dot build with dual wield.

Nice. You realize that you can slot AoE and singletarget? A pet build is not able to do even that.
Also thanks for ignoring my second point completely.

You have obviously no interest in constructive discussion in any form. Go t**** somewhere else.

I slot single target and aoe by using 2 bows, something you can do with two staves. I also find your second point silly simple because I run lethal arrow which isn't as good as focused aim which would wield more dps and I'd prefer to use venom arrow over poison injection but it's simply to big of a dps increase in pve not to have it. if also prefer bombard for pvp but again I have to have acid spray, scorched earth is only one that's not a problem simply because it's awful for pvp and isn't in consideration. Evil dead is another ability that while great for pve is much rather have camo hunter, so pet build isn't the only one making concessions on pve and pvp.

And whatchu gonna do with two staves when 8/10 slots are taken by toggles, hombre? Wave em about like brooms?

pppontus · February 2015

ArconSeptim wrote: »

as I said sorcerer style players biggest whiners in the game but have the best dps in game

I honestly do think you're on to something. I've never seen so many complaints without any basis on real builds, numbers or anything. In here it's just a bunch of people screaming loudly because of perceived changes or what a tooltip says.

All classes had a lot of changes to them, but the reason the complaints are 90% sorcerers are because all the others are out testing builds, not being angry because "10% crushing shock!!".

I just can't believe you people, admittedly I haven't gotten to dealing with my own Sorc yet but I've seen @Nybling posted a build on TF which seems to do good DPS (at range) both with and without Overload and when we went to SO the sorc using his build was actually the highest DPS across the whole fight. Here people scream at him for using pets? WTF?!?

Then again, a large amount of Sorcs were whining uncontrollably in 1.5 as well while I regularly beat slightly less skilled DKs by pulling a constant 1,4K on my Sorc. Sure, it was lacking a little in 1.5 but it wasn't nearly as bad as people made it out to be either.

And @Exstazik‌ , I really don't know what to tell you, but you can't look at tooltips and say what DPS a build pulls. It doesn't work like that, there are a lot more factors to take into account than that. Try weaving with a bow and then tell me you can do more DPS with that.

You either adapt or you don't, but this thread, is not feedback. This thread is the ultimate QQ and can only lead to people getting completely fed up with you. It's not too much to ask for some real in-game examples if you want people to listen to you.

Morvul · February 2015

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

I slot single target and aoe by using 2 bows, something you can do with two staves.

actually: no...
the "togglemancer" (sorc pet build) can not do that, even when using 2 staves.
reason: you simply do not have enough skill slots, as toggles use them all up...

Derra · February 2015

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

rogue_gamer32b14_ESO wrote: »

Nybling wrote: »

xherics wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

I just watched a sorc get 14k dps with a caster build. Before you ask they had 90 champion points spent.

Build and rotation pls?

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-x-nyblings-magicka-based-sorc-dps-champion-rank-71/page/4/#post-567158

The current last post in thread.

I want to see this man to do the DPS for more than 100 seconds... Impossible, the dps drops to 8k all the time...

I think you underestimate how sustainable overload is. Light Attacks w/ Overload regenerate Ultimate. After a minute I still had almost 700 ultimate left and that was with constant weaving after each crystal frags.

Nybling...not trying to be rude. However you're the same person champing pet builds along with Erlexx on Tamriel Foundry. I don't think anyone here respects you for that or that you are helping the further downfall of our class.

If you hadn't noticed. The major of the people who play this class, are seriously unhappy with it, and we are all calling for change. This thread alone is proof of that.

Overload is bugged and has been reported 101 times. It will be fixed.

As a member of Entropy Rising you have the Developers ear some what. You of all people should be using to pull out class out of the dump.

Let's be honest here, most of you wont be happy with the sorc till you have the best dps, healing, tanking, mobility in the game. Frankly I'm getting tired of people whining about pet builds just like nightblades who whined their class sucked and would always say something moronic like "they're nightBLADES not nightSTAFFS."

It gets old and your class doesn't suck so quit whining.

It has nothing to do with ppl being unreasonable about their class. It has legit problems in pve (dps not being one of them if you´re playing pets admittedly).

The only problem i (personally) have with petbuilds is that they offer zero variety.
You have 6 slots out of ten given away for toggles. Two more musthaves for the pet buffs. Then you HAVE to slot either surge or entropy (entropy is the obvious choice for pve here).That leaves you with 1 damage ability to slot from your normal bar and maybe 2 ability slots on your overload bar. Also the best singletarget build won´t be able to slot aoe abilities at all without switching skills.
One skill up to personal preference (crystal blast is still the obvious choice here) is a little stupid.
Also these kind of build offers no grp utility whatsoever apart from 10% magica reg (you don´t even have the option to slot an offheal).

The biggest annoyance however is that you can under no circumstance have a build like that and pvp on the same character without respeccing morphs. PvP requires hardened ward (pet build needs empowered). PvP requires velocious curse (pet build requires daedric prey). PvP requires fragments (pet build should slot blast bc you cant procc it anyway and need aoe). PvP uses volatile familar (pet build requires clannfear bc of double the dps of familar). PvP would use twilight matriarch (pet build requires restoring for grp sustain and it does more dmg). Magelight is debatable.

No other class has to choose between most of their core abilities if they want to pve or pvp. A player doing both will have to respec every time he does one or the other. This is my biggest problem with petbuilds atm.

Oh please, variety bit is a joke, you realize on live right in dungeons when I'm doing dps with dual bow i have one bar with snipe, poison injection, and another with arrow spray and scorched earth, and both bar usually have evil dead and siphoning attacks, and my last ability is usually something like piercing mark or shades. 90% of the time I'm spamming one ability, and that's eithet snipe on single target pulls or acid spray on aoe pulls. So complaining you have one dps ability is pointless, because most setups are that way unless they're dot builds.

Oh and here is the kicker, bow actually isn't good dps on pts and most of us stamina users will either end up spamming wrecking blow or a dot build with dual wield.

Nice. You realize that you can slot AoE and singletarget? A pet build is not able to do even that.
Also thanks for ignoring my second point completely.

You have obviously no interest in constructive discussion in any form. Go t**** somewhere else.

I slot single target and aoe by using 2 bows, something you can do with two staves. I also find your second point silly simple because I run lethal arrow which isn't as good as focused aim which would wield more dps and I'd prefer to use venom arrow over poison injection but it's simply to big of a dps increase in pve not to have it. if also prefer bombard for pvp but again I have to have acid spray, scorched earth is only one that's not a problem simply because it's awful for pvp and isn't in consideration. Evil dead is another ability that while great for pve is much rather have camo hunter, so pet build isn't the only one making concessions on pve and pvp.

It is not a matter of a 10% efficiency. Crystal blast is unusable in pvp. Empowered ward is 33% weaker. Daedric Prey is 40% weaker.
It´s not a problem of running suboptimal morphs. You´re gutting yourself by using them in pvp outside of a petspec. I´ve played a bow spec in pvp(edit: and pve) and your example is in no way comparable to the sorc pet morphs.

Also did you read my post at all? You can´t slot an AoE because you don´t have space on your bars. There is no option like "slot two staves", you´re already using them.

Like i said. You don´t read what ppl post and the result is this nonsense you come up with.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Alcast · February 2015

Mariiana wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Mariiana wrote: »

davedwildebeast wrote: »

Carter_DC wrote: »

i kinda disaggree with the tone, but sorcerers are definitely useless in HL pve now...
I'm just gonna do the same as everyone with 1.6..reroll nightblade.

You couldn't be any more wrong if you tried...

....A lot of us are re-rolling Templar rather than NB!

templar for dps??? just cuz they got an execute???

only good templar dps that ive seen so far still in 1.6 is a stam build, and the only thing a stam build benefits from on a temp is radiant aura, which got hit by the nerf hammer hard.... so please explain to me what you mean...

You my friend, have no idea what a Stam templar can do nowadays. My tests on pts gave me approx 10k dps as Templar stam DD. And on top of that I had not the optimal gear, not the optimal buffs and not rotation lol.

Sure they nerfed our Biting jabs from 170% to 140%. But we will find ways

And yes, Magicka Sorc/Nbs totally broken. On the other hand, it seems all ranged classes do only like 8k dps. The only reason why Magicka DKs do more dmg is because they got DoTs.

A ranged DK also only does 8k dps. If a DK gets close he can do approx 10-12k

I think you misunderstood my meaning, i know that stamplars are pretty good. i assume you use bow/2H....what templar skills are you using on the bars?? only one i ever see any stamplar use is radiant aura, and maybe BoL.

Can you see what i mean now? that same build on any other class is still good, if not better.

biting jabs being stam now does make a slight difference, but even that got a dmg reduction in the latest patch like you said.

Oh you meant that every stam class can do approx the same? Ye I guess that is true, the only different skills I use is Power of the light and Biting Jabs. I dont use Radiant Aura(bc they nerfed it) and i dont use Repentance because it doesnt give a lot of Stamina back, I get like 1/3rd of what a magicka user gets back, so the healer has to use it.

Though the AoE capabilities of Templars with Jabs is pretty neat atm, especially with Jabs

Magdalina · February 2015

pppontus wrote: »

ArconSeptim wrote: »

as I said sorcerer style players biggest whiners in the game but have the best dps in game

I honestly do think you're on to something. I've never seen so many complaints without any basis on real builds, numbers or anything. In here it's just a bunch of people screaming loudly because of perceived changes or what a tooltip says.

All classes had a lot of changes to them, but the reason the complaints are 90% sorcerers are because all the others are out testing builds, not being angry because "10% crushing shock!!".

I just can't believe you people, admittedly I haven't gotten to dealing with my own Sorc yet but I've seen @Nybling posted a build on TF which seems to do good DPS (at range) both with and without Overload and when we went to SO the sorc using his build was actually the highest DPS across the whole fight. Here people scream at him for using pets? WTF?!?

Then again, a large amount of Sorcs were whining uncontrollably in 1.5 as well while I regularly beat slightly less skilled DKs by pulling a constant 1,4K on my Sorc. Sure, it was lacking a little in 1.5 but it wasn't nearly as bad as people made it out to be either.

And @Exstazik‌ , I really don't know what to tell you, but you can't look at tooltips and say what DPS a build pulls. It doesn't work like that, there are a lot more factors to take into account than that. Try weaving with a bow and then tell me you can do more DPS with that.

You either adapt or you don't, but this thread, is not feedback. This thread is the ultimate QQ and can only lead to people getting completely fed up with you. It's not too much to ask for some real in-game examples if you want people to listen to you.

It's a bit hard to provide numbers comparison atm since we aren't even certain yet what good numbers are. But there are some numbers provided in other threads by, say, a member of Hodor saying he/she cannot pull more than 8k sustained with the sorc while DK can go 12k. That sounds like a legit concern to me.

Also, if you pull 1.4k sustained dps on non-daedric enemies with your sorc right now, please share. I'm not *most* optimized player and I would love to know how you reach such godmode when no sorc I know can. Teach me, master ^.^

And people are whining because we've been constructively complaining for quite a while - like about how sorc have no stam mangement, no reliable selfheal, no instant attacks, in the end weak-ish dps and nothing to compensate for it(like templars may not have highest dps(on live at least) but they're hands down best healers), and here comes 1.6 and we see none of our concerns addressed. It's not constructive at all but sometimes you just get so fed up you have to start throwing dishes against the floor before you kill someone^^

Fayaburn · February 2015

pppontus wrote: »

ArconSeptim wrote: »

as I said sorcerer style players biggest whiners in the game but have the best dps in game

You either adapt or you don't, but this thread, is not feedback. This thread is the ultimate QQ and can only lead to people getting completely fed up with you. It's not too much to ask for some real in-game examples if you want people to listen to you.

How about the 10000+ times where we gave feedback about how a build requiring to run 3 toggles is not viable? You even included a paragraph about this toggle issue in your extensive post about 1.6...

What about I provide you one single target skill that you spam to reach 12k dps (no more, no less) when you manage to keep entropy up. You will have only 1 slot per bar and can't cast anything than that skill and entropy and at the same time struggle with the broken weapon swap (cooldown inside). Do you still think that would be a viable and nice build? Even if it grants 12k on serpent where other people get 11.5k?

Please don't focus on the crushing shock nerf and other peripheral issues and realize that currently PvE sorcs are trapped in a deep pit caused by bad gamedesign.

pppontus · February 2015

Magdalina wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ArconSeptim wrote: »

as I said sorcerer style players biggest whiners in the game but have the best dps in game

I honestly do think you're on to something. I've never seen so many complaints without any basis on real builds, numbers or anything. In here it's just a bunch of people screaming loudly because of perceived changes or what a tooltip says.

All classes had a lot of changes to them, but the reason the complaints are 90% sorcerers are because all the others are out testing builds, not being angry because "10% crushing shock!!".

I just can't believe you people, admittedly I haven't gotten to dealing with my own Sorc yet but I've seen @Nybling posted a build on TF which seems to do good DPS (at range) both with and without Overload and when we went to SO the sorc using his build was actually the highest DPS across the whole fight. Here people scream at him for using pets? WTF?!?

Then again, a large amount of Sorcs were whining uncontrollably in 1.5 as well while I regularly beat slightly less skilled DKs by pulling a constant 1,4K on my Sorc. Sure, it was lacking a little in 1.5 but it wasn't nearly as bad as people made it out to be either.

And @Exstazik‌ , I really don't know what to tell you, but you can't look at tooltips and say what DPS a build pulls. It doesn't work like that, there are a lot more factors to take into account than that. Try weaving with a bow and then tell me you can do more DPS with that.

You either adapt or you don't, but this thread, is not feedback. This thread is the ultimate QQ and can only lead to people getting completely fed up with you. It's not too much to ask for some real in-game examples if you want people to listen to you.

It's a bit hard to provide numbers comparison atm since we aren't even certain yet what good numbers are. But there are some numbers provided in other threads by, say, a member of Hodor saying he/she cannot pull more than 8k sustained with the sorc while DK can go 12k. That sounds like a legit concern to me.

Also, if you pull 1.4k sustained dps on non-daedric enemies with your sorc right now, please share. I'm not *most* optimized player and I would love to know how you reach such godmode when no sorc I know can. Teach me, master ^.^

And people are whining because we've been constructively complaining for quite a while - like about how sorc have no stam mangement, no reliable selfheal, no instant attacks, in the end weak-ish dps and nothing to compensate for it(like templars may not have highest dps(on live at least) but they're hands down best healers), and here comes 1.6 and we see none of our concerns addressed. It's not constructive at all but sometimes you just get so fed up you have to start throwing dishes against the floor before you kill someone^^

Well, as much as I respect Hodor for all they have achieved it doesn't mean every one of their members are elite theorycrafters. As mentioned, have a look at http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-x-nyblings-magicka-based-sorc-dps-champion-rank-71/ for a build that can clearly push 12K fully sustained and 14K semi-sustained (overload). This is better than all ranged builds I have seen, literally all of them and only beat by a few melee builds.

As for 1.5, go for 5x Infallible Aether and 2x Spawn of Mephala, weave CS with medium charged heavy attacks = 1,4K DPS when using Atronach and at least 1,2K without. Not undead, proper bossfights.

I would say the legitimate Sorc concerns (lower highest potential DPS) was adressed, as it now has potential to do the highest DPS and imo almost over the top for a ranged caster. But I won't comment on that until I see more from the other classes. Saying sorcs didn't have a reliable self-heal is not true, as crit surge + 60% crit was insanely OP in 1.5.

I just have a low tolerance for people giving feedback without actually testing anything, it's like those backseat drivers all over again.

Alcast · February 2015

I guess ZOS is trying to smth:
Ranged builds approx 8-9k DPS
Melee builds approx 10-12k DPS

The only reason Magick DKs do more dmg because they can apply DoTs.
A ranged Magicka DK also only does 8-9k DPS.
They also nerfed bow, dont forget that.

pppontus · February 2015

Fayaburn wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ArconSeptim wrote: »

as I said sorcerer style players biggest whiners in the game but have the best dps in game

You either adapt or you don't, but this thread, is not feedback. This thread is the ultimate QQ and can only lead to people getting completely fed up with you. It's not too much to ask for some real in-game examples if you want people to listen to you.

How about the 10000+ times where we gave feedback about how a build requiring to run 3 toggles is not viable? You even included a paragraph about this toggle issue in your extensive post about 1.6...

What about I provide you one single target skill that you spam to reach 12k dps (no more, no less) when you manage to keep entropy up. You will have only 1 slot per bar and can't cast anything than that skill and entropy and at the same time struggle with the broken weapon swap (cooldown inside). Do you still think that would be a viable and nice build? Even if it grants 12k on serpent where other people get 11.5k?

Please don't focus on the crushing shock nerf and other peripheral issues and realize that currently PvE sorcs are trapped in a deep pit caused by bad gamedesign.

If you feel that's too restrictive I'd just drop Bound Aegis. I'm probably gonna do that anyway, sure 5% magicka is nice but it's not like "OH I MUST HAVE IT". Plus in 1.5 you'd pretty much have to have either ele drain and/or spell sym anyway which you could technically drop now so...

Sure, I'd also like more skill slots just like pretty much everyone else, but the difference is I'm not going to say my class(es) is(are) broken as a result. Actually the opposite, imagine these skills are actually so useful that you'd want to have them on your bar now.. that's a huge buff to the skills imo.