PTS Patch Notes v1.6.2

Gandogal

Destruction mastery set enlargement

In addition to my post asking to add rings and a neck to the destruction mastery set (just like footmen and healer set have), id also like to point out that this set only has 6 out of 7 armor items so far (no feet). you cant even combine it with head/shoulder-sets yet.

add the missing items please!

armor set balancing

also i would like to highlite the (already mentioned) issue, that the 5-item-bonusses of soulshine and burning spellweave are completely off compared to regular spell damage bonusses as well as the issue that weapon crit bonus on burning spell weave can surely not be intended.

Aliniel

Nerfing Crushing shock - ok. It was kinda too strong, still is I'd say. People just spam it.

I am a foremost sorcerer player. Did this affect us a lot? Yes. But, it's a good nerf. Sorcerers need something of their own added into the game. Some spell should be altered or something. There aren't many single target spells we could use as a main DMG output. Most of them deal dmg on low targets or after some time. Crystal Fragment is awesome, but it's magicka hungry.

In every TES game mages were a powerful wielders of flame, frost and thunder. We are yet to see even a glimpse of other two elements. Also, there's no trace of "alteration" school. I know this isn't a regular TES game, but hopefully, the future will bring us the glory that Sorcerers deserve. Hopefully, a new skill tree.

Another thing, we should be allowed to be 100% magic dependent and not use weapons at all should we choose so.

prototypefb

Aliniel wrote: »

Nerfing Crushing shock - ok. It was kinda too strong, still is I'd say. People just spam it.

I am a foremost sorcerer player. Did this affect us a lot? Yes. But, it's a good nerf. Sorcerers need something of their own added into the game. Some spell should be altered or something. There aren't many single target spells we could use as a main DMG output. Most of them deal dmg on low targets or after some time. Crystal Fragment is awesome, but it's magicka hungry.

In every TES game mages were a powerful wielders of flame, frost and thunder. We are yet to see even a glimpse of other two elements. Also, there's no trace of "alteration" school. I know this isn't a regular TES game, but hopefully, the future will bring us the glory that Sorcerers deserve. Hopefully, a new skill tree.

Another thing, we should be allowed to be 100% magic dependent and not use weapons at all should we choose so.

it's barely a nerf, bringing OP skill in line to other skills.
skill is riddiculously cheap and effective compared to most other similar skills.

Khivas_Carrick

Don't say that now, people might flip their lids at you

prototypefb

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Don't say that now, people might flip their lids at you

sorcs have nothing to cry about tbh, seems like ppl are crying just to get OP builds and faceroll everything.
i rather see balance/diversity in the game, idc if ppl throw virtual feces at me xD

Khivas_Carrick

I think Sorcs could use a little love, but casters in general are fine

Nightreaver

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Magicka is even with melee in terms of damage in PvE and PvP, it's all in how you play.

Though that would certainly be good news I would really like to see some evidence that that is in fact the case.
The issue I have right now is that we have Sorcerers from PTS claiming they remain behind other classes in DPS. Ok, fine but I would like to see some evidence of that. Claiming Sorcerers are only doing 6K DPS isn't a nerf if all other classes are doing the same.
On the other hand we have people who play other classes as their main claiming Sorcerers are balanced or even OP. But again I would like to see some evidence of that. Claiming Sorcerers are doing 12K DPS isn't OP if other classes are doing 15K.
Right now all I see is a lot of opinions with no evidence to support their claim.
I think most Sorcerers just want to see some test results comparing the classes completed on an even playing field to validate these claims one way or the other.

prototypefb wrote: »

sorcs have nothing to cry about tbh, seems like ppl are crying just to get OP builds and faceroll everything.
i rather see balance/diversity in the game, idc if ppl throw virtual feces at me xD

So you just came to whine about Sorcerers with nothing to substantiate your claims. How does that make you any better?
Just FYI, Sorcerers aren't looking to be OP, the goal of most Sorcerers is also to achieve balance/diversity in the game.

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Don't say that now, people might flip their lids at you

Yeah I would say it would be a real safe bet that you would get the same results from any class when someone that plays a different class makes unsubstantiated claims directed at them with the sole intention of getting a rise out of them. It's called Trolling. Has there ever been a class in any MMO that hasn't got upset when that occurs? Templars of course included.

Please, be my guest, take that comment and place it in any class discussion directed at their class in any MMO and see how well it is accepted.

Personally, I am enjoying my Sorcerer on PTS. My only issue at this time is that I have no real idea of how it compares to other classes.

Nightreaver

prototypefb wrote: »

it's barely a nerf, bringing OP skill in line to other skills.
skill is riddiculously cheap and effective compared to most other similar skills.

I think the issue there is that other classes do have other spammable instant cast abilities to compare and bring it inline with. Sorcerers don't.

Khivas_Carrick

Idk about the other classes but Templar's spammable abilities actually make our DPS worse if we actually spam them. Why as a stamina build heavy attack and both snipe and wrecking blow are extremely crucial

prototypefb

Nightreaver wrote: »

prototypefb wrote: »

it's barely a nerf, bringing OP skill in line to other skills.
skill is riddiculously cheap and effective compared to most other similar skills.

I think the issue there is that other classes do have other spammable instant cast abilities to compare and bring it inline with. Sorcerers don't.

Dks don't have either(long range instant spammable spell) but that doesn't stop them being OP pre 1.6
sorcs have other means for the job, including imba protection etc

HyperToxic

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Nightreaver wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

You go fight the Mantikora and see if you can DPS constantly in melee.

Ok, Ranged DPS has an advantage in THAT fight. It really doesn't tell us anything about the balance of the game.
If the issue is balance then I'm much more interested in knowing:
1) Over the course of a Dungeon/Trial how does DPS compare among classes?
2) At the end of most boss encounters how does DPS compare among classes.
( Using several encounters, not just a couple specific fights that support one side or the other.
3) What armor were the people doing DPS using? (I would expect someone in Light to have an advantage over someone in Heavy)
4) How were attribute points distributed. ( I would expect someone with all points assigned to Magicka/Stamina to have an advantage over someone putting points into Health.

pppontus wrote: »

If melee wasn't higher DPS there would be no reason at all to be melee as you would overall do less DPS in every single fight as you have to move more and lose time where you can't hit the boss at all.

If most encounters end with melee doing higher DPS then there is no reason at all to be Ranged.
Melee DPS should be increased to the point where most encounters end with melee DPS equivalent to Ranged DPS with all other things being equal.
Light armor should provide more DPS than Medium and Medium more than Heavy.
Allocating attribute points to Stamina/Magicka should result in higher DPS than allocating points to Health.

pppontus wrote: »

Also, again, my point about Sorc being the highest ranged DPS is on the PTS.. as this is a discussion about PTS Patch Notes.

Ranged DPS means nothing. When people are looking for someone to fill a DPS spot they are only interested in how much DPS you can achieve. They could care less about how you achieve it.

This isn't your garden variety mmo bud, the lighter the armor past heavy does not increase your dps anymore. Hell even WoW stopped doing that, same with swtor. Here in ESO heavy means tank, medium means melee, and light means ranged, most of the time, but even without the common archetypes, range should equal less damage but more range and mobility and cc, while melee equates to high risk high reward.

Sorry to say, but both are equal. This goes beyond just numbers.

Did you consider Bow? Bow is ranged and uses medium...

Khivas_Carrick

Good point, shame on me.

Heavy = Tanking and surviving

Light = Magicka and Ranged/high risk high reward AoE

Medium = Stamina and Majority Melee and token Ranged.

That said, for me as a Templar, a bow is viable but nowhere near as powerful as a staff. It's a filler for when I'm not getting my ass kicked/kicking ass in melee.

In a NB's hands, that bow matches any destro user and is only topped by a nb with a destro, or was at least since things changed in 1.6.

OtarTheMad

prototypefb wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Don't say that now, people might flip their lids at you

sorcs have nothing to cry about tbh, seems like ppl are crying just to get OP builds and faceroll everything.
i rather see balance/diversity in the game, idc if ppl throw virtual feces at me xD

I, or one, just want the class to be in line with how Mages and Sorcs worked in other Elder Scrolls games. Like I mentioned before, and others, mages in TES were squishy, no argument, but they were dangerous spell casters of all elements (Fire, Shock, Frost) In Skyrim, Oblivion you can have a thief (NB) Warrior (DK) and a Mage face off in a 3 Way fight and the Sorc would have a fighting chance because of how dangerous he was offensively... not OP at all... but just balanced enough to keep up with the other two.

I just want to be balanced, up to par with Templars, DKs and NBs and to me that just means maybe one or two more offensive spells and maybe a change here and there and I'm happy.

I'd trade Rune Prison for Frenzy (Call upon Boethiah and send npcs into a frenzy attacking everyone around them for 6-10 secs)

I'd trade Lightning Splash for Exploding Fireball (Hurl fireballs like Mehrunes Dagon at enemies that do X amount of fire damage and X amount to other enemies over X secs)

I'd trade Lightning Form for Ice Storm (Knockdown enemies and cause them X amount of frost damage) Think of the Death's Wind blow back with this one. We already have Hardened Ward and Bound Armor... do we really need three armor spells??

That doesn't sound OP to me because damage shields would still be getting the nerf they are apparently getting so we'd still be squishy. Does it sound like I'm trying to get Sorc to be OP with these spells? (Honestly) Because I think I am just trying to suggest some balancing options here. I don't need 4 CC's (counting Volcanic Rune) I don't need 4 armor spells (counting Harness Magicka) and what I do need is a variety of elemental damage.

ForKristSake

I would like to see the Argonian racial passive Amphibious have the buff for potions set back to it's original status effecting all potions.

Just my 2 gold.

haidlir1983

Im having a blast with my Bosmer Vamp Melee NB but still believe it need some work, for example new Haste, i don't find as useful as the old one so is out of my bar, im loving the new spark and the changes of some of the NB abilities to work with stm so my balanced NB dont have to depend on magika.
The Champ system is cool but the unlock passives of the thief side are so weak in comparison with the warrior and mage, they shoul be more like a assassin type no a merchant or at least both, i played all TES games and thief give you some "talk and sell" skills but we need some shadow assassin illusion type too . (Sorry for my poor english, is not my native lenguage)

PS: Zos i love this game pls make it even better

Nightreaver

HyperToxic wrote: »

Did you consider Bow? Bow is ranged and uses medium...

Weapons determine whether you are fighting melee or ranged, not armor. There isn't a single armor ability whose ability is dependent on melee or ranged.

Armor

Heavy: abilities increase defense and survivability.

Medium: abilities increase survivability and Stamina based DPS

Light: abilities increase Healing and Magicka based DPS.

Weapons

2H: Melee
Sword & Board: Melee
DW: Melee
Bow: Ranged
Destro Staff: Only weapon that supports offensive Magicka builds so contains both.
Resto Staff: Healing

If you're looking at armor from a role perspective

Heavy: Tank - Passives increase Defense and Survivability

Medium: DPS - Passives increase both melee and ranged Stamina DPS

Light: Healing and DPS - Passives increase both Healing and Magicka based melee and ranged DPS

Melee = highest play style risk incurring more damage than ranged.

Light armor = highest build risk incurring more damage than Medium/Heavy.

Not implying that the risk of wearing light armor equals the risk of fighting melee but that both should be considered in order to achieve balance when determining DPS.

F7sus4

haidlir1983 wrote: »

are so weak

If you want weak, go Magicka Nightblade in 1.6.

F7sus4

Nightreaver wrote: »

Heavy armor undeniably has the advantage in defense and survivability over Light while providing nothing in the way to increase DPS

Light armor most certainly has the advantage in providing greater DPS over Heavy while having no passives to increase survivability

True on paper, false in the tests.
The adjective "undeniably" won't make it undeniable just by stating so.

Heavy = god-like Spell Resistance and Armor, decent DPS.
Light = 200% glass-cannon, with just a bit better DPS, and a bit more sustainability.

You can solo first AA boss in Heavy Armor, you die to Wasps in Light Armor. Fair enough for some, I guess.

SpAEkus

So dedicated healers? Light, med, or heavy, or do we know yet?

Waiting to see if I have to start over from my Level 20 Templar Mage or not.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

meaglar wrote: »

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

live is irrelevant. this is pts thread about pts feedback. go to the proper place if you want to debate about live.
please dont enlighten him about live, this is not the place for that! seriously dude

This is a place for discussion. Discussion, by any means, depends on unlimited thesis, to try to reach to a synthesis. It is not logical to call "irrelevant, do not answer" on what we discuss for 2 reasons:

1- discussion is a collection of many thesis as I said before, where it would not be possible to limit them, as far as they are connected, or you will connect by any means.
2- how can you find it irrelevant or missplaced, talking about WW-1, where you actually discuss WW-2?

Anyways, I am glad my respondent was aware of these, unlike your self.

I disagree, If someone comes on and talks about the game climate before bash was completely nerfed, what they are saying is irrelevant, the game has changed and the context does not make sense, its no longer in play as an issue. so if you talk out of context you run the risk of being irrelevant.

arguing about group composition because of how people play in 1.5 is irrelevant, the game is different by a long shot. its not the same as comparing world wars, the devs rewrite the code in the game and the past does not necessarily effect the future, unlike actual history; at least come up with an analogy that is not irrelevant.

Nightreaver

F7sus4 wrote: »

Nightreaver wrote: »

Heavy armor undeniably has the advantage in defense and survivability over Light while providing nothing in the way to increase DPS

Light armor most certainly has the advantage in providing greater DPS over Heavy while having no passives to increase survivability

True on paper, false in the tests.
The adjective "undeniably" won't make it undeniable just by stating so.

Heavy = god-like Spell Resistance and Armor, decent DPS.
Light = 200% glass-cannon, with just a bit better DPS, and a bit more sustainability.

You can solo first AA boss in Heavy Armor, you die to Wasps in Light Armor. Fair enough for some, I guess.

Please enlighten me, in what way is it undeniable?
In what way does Light armor offer better defense and survivability than Heavy?
In what way does Heavy armor offer better DPS than Light?

"Heavy = god-like Spell Resistance and Armor, decent DPS."
Sounds like you agree that Heavy offers better defense and survivability

"Light = 200% glass-cannon, with just a bit better DPS, and a bit more sustainability."
Sounds like you agree that Light offers better DPS.

Sounds like even your argument is in agreement with me.

"You can solo first AA boss in Heavy Armor, you die to Wasps in Light Armor. Fair enough for some, I guess."
Not saying it's balanced. Just saying that the intent of Heavy armor is defense and survivability while the intent of Light armor is DPS and Healing.

And though not directed at you I have to LOL at people who don't like what a post says so they tag it with LOL because they can't provide an argument against it.

Cyantific87

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

meaglar wrote: »

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

live is irrelevant. this is pts thread about pts feedback. go to the proper place if you want to debate about live.
please dont enlighten him about live, this is not the place for that! seriously dude

This is a place for discussion. Discussion, by any means, depends on unlimited thesis, to try to reach to a synthesis. It is not logical to call "irrelevant, do not answer" on what we discuss for 2 reasons:

1- discussion is a collection of many thesis as I said before, where it would not be possible to limit them, as far as they are connected, or you will connect by any means.
2- how can you find it irrelevant or missplaced, talking about WW-1, where you actually discuss WW-2?

Anyways, I am glad my respondent was aware of these, unlike your self.

I disagree, If someone comes on and talks about the game climate before bash was completely nerfed, what they are saying is irrelevant, the game has changed and the context does not make sense, its no longer in play as an issue. so if you talk out of context you run the risk of being irrelevant.

arguing about group composition because of how people play in 1.5 is irrelevant, the game is different by a long shot. its not the same as comparing world wars, the devs rewrite the code in the game and the past does not necessarily effect the future, unlike actual history; at least come up with an analogy that is not irrelevant.

All I remember from this post when i finish reading is "irrelevant" lol

HyperToxic

Major Prophecy from Sea of Flames and Inner light stacks together and provides 10% Spell Critical from each source for a total of 20% additional Spell Critical. However Spell Power pots with Spell Critical provides the same Major Prophecy buff yet does not stack with either.

I’ve herd rumors that this is a bug, I’ve also herd that it is intended that any Major buff stacked with another Major buff with the same name is automatically converted to a Minor buff. If that is the case why not with Spell Power pots?

Can anyone shed light on this?

Kragorn

SpAEkus wrote: »

So dedicated healers? Light, med, or heavy, or do we know yet?

Waiting to see if I have to start over from my Level 20 Templar Mage or not.

Since by definition dedicated healers aren't supposed to take much damage then I'd say the answer is unchanged from 1.5; neither in 1.5 nor 1.6 do Medium or Heavy armours help a healer I'd say.

SpAEkus

Since by definition dedicated healers aren't supposed to take much damage

Unfortunately Healers in 1.6 are having to survive those 10-15K one-shots so they aren't able to sustain long in PVP at least.

I was starting to think from reading that only a new hybrid-healer was going to be viable in 1.6x, whether PVP or PVE.

Alcast

Kragorn wrote: »

SpAEkus wrote: »

So dedicated healers? Light, med, or heavy, or do we know yet?

Waiting to see if I have to start over from my Level 20 Templar Mage or not.

Since by definition dedicated healers aren't supposed to take much damage then I'd say the answer is unchanged from 1.5; neither in 1.5 nor 1.6 do Medium or Heavy armours help a healer I'd say.

Wrong, 5 Light and 2 heavy. Or at least 1 heavy piece is a must.