I wasn't talking about live ffs. We're in a god damn thread about the PTS, what did you think? Sorc is the highest ranged DPS on the PTS, at least I haven't seen any RANGED pull anything higher of any class.
Also 1,2K max on live on a Sorc is ***. You should be able to do that and take a nap at the same time tbh..
I am not gonna comment on your PTS opinions.
But for your comments about live;
Enlight me please. How a sorcerer is doing 1,2k sustain (long term) DPS, yet taking a nap (means you claim they can go even more)? How come there is not a single video showing a sorcerer doin this? If you claim these are secrets of good players, which cannot be shared, or video prooved, no further comments...
Ok, Ranged DPS has an advantage in THAT fight. It really doesn't tell us anything about the balance of the game.You go fight the Mantikora and see if you can DPS constantly in melee.
If most encounters end with melee doing higher DPS then there is no reason at all to be Ranged.If melee wasn't higher DPS there would be no reason at all to be melee as you would overall do less DPS in every single fight as you have to move more and lose time where you can't hit the boss at all.
Ranged DPS means nothing. When people are looking for someone to fill a DPS spot they are only interested in how much DPS you can achieve. They could care less about how you achieve it.Also, again, my point about Sorc being the highest ranged DPS is on the PTS.. as this is a discussion about PTS Patch Notes.
Nightreaver wrote: »Ok, Ranged DPS has an advantage in THAT fight. It really doesn't tell us anything about the balance of the game.You go fight the Mantikora and see if you can DPS constantly in melee.
If the issue is balance then I'm much more interested in knowing:
1) Over the course of a Dungeon/Trial how does DPS compare among classes?
2) At the end of most boss encounters how does DPS compare among classes.
( Using several encounters, not just a couple specific fights that support one side or the other.
3) What armor were the people doing DPS using? (I would expect someone in Light to have an advantage over someone in Heavy)
4) How were attribute points distributed. ( I would expect someone with all points assigned to Magicka/Stamina to have an advantage over someone putting points into Health.If most encounters end with melee doing higher DPS then there is no reason at all to be Ranged.If melee wasn't higher DPS there would be no reason at all to be melee as you would overall do less DPS in every single fight as you have to move more and lose time where you can't hit the boss at all.
Melee DPS should be increased to the point where most encounters end with melee DPS equivalent to Ranged DPS with all other things being equal.
Light armor should provide more DPS than Medium and Medium more than Heavy.
Allocating attribute points to Stamina/Magicka should result in higher DPS than allocating points to Health.Ranged DPS means nothing. When people are looking for someone to fill a DPS spot they are only interested in how much DPS you can achieve. They could care less about how you achieve it.Also, again, my point about Sorc being the highest ranged DPS is on the PTS.. as this is a discussion about PTS Patch Notes.
Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Nightreaver wrote: »Ok, Ranged DPS has an advantage in THAT fight. It really doesn't tell us anything about the balance of the game.You go fight the Mantikora and see if you can DPS constantly in melee.
If the issue is balance then I'm much more interested in knowing:
1) Over the course of a Dungeon/Trial how does DPS compare among classes?
2) At the end of most boss encounters how does DPS compare among classes.
( Using several encounters, not just a couple specific fights that support one side or the other.
3) What armor were the people doing DPS using? (I would expect someone in Light to have an advantage over someone in Heavy)
4) How were attribute points distributed. ( I would expect someone with all points assigned to Magicka/Stamina to have an advantage over someone putting points into Health.If most encounters end with melee doing higher DPS then there is no reason at all to be Ranged.If melee wasn't higher DPS there would be no reason at all to be melee as you would overall do less DPS in every single fight as you have to move more and lose time where you can't hit the boss at all.
Melee DPS should be increased to the point where most encounters end with melee DPS equivalent to Ranged DPS with all other things being equal.
Light armor should provide more DPS than Medium and Medium more than Heavy.
Allocating attribute points to Stamina/Magicka should result in higher DPS than allocating points to Health.Ranged DPS means nothing. When people are looking for someone to fill a DPS spot they are only interested in how much DPS you can achieve. They could care less about how you achieve it.Also, again, my point about Sorc being the highest ranged DPS is on the PTS.. as this is a discussion about PTS Patch Notes.
This isn't your garden variety mmo bud, the lighter the armor past heavy does not increase your dps anymore. Hell even WoW stopped doing that, same with swtor. Here in ESO heavy means tank, medium means melee, and light means ranged, most of the time, but even without the common archetypes, range should equal less damage but more range and mobility and cc, while melee equates to high risk high reward.
Sorry to say, but both are equal. This goes beyond just numbers.
dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »
live is irrelevant. this is pts thread about pts feedback. go to the proper place if you want to debate about live.
please dont enlighten him about live, this is not the place for that! seriously dude
Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Nightreaver wrote: »Ok, Ranged DPS has an advantage in THAT fight. It really doesn't tell us anything about the balance of the game.You go fight the Mantikora and see if you can DPS constantly in melee.
If the issue is balance then I'm much more interested in knowing:
1) Over the course of a Dungeon/Trial how does DPS compare among classes?
2) At the end of most boss encounters how does DPS compare among classes.
( Using several encounters, not just a couple specific fights that support one side or the other.
3) What armor were the people doing DPS using? (I would expect someone in Light to have an advantage over someone in Heavy)
4) How were attribute points distributed. ( I would expect someone with all points assigned to Magicka/Stamina to have an advantage over someone putting points into Health.If most encounters end with melee doing higher DPS then there is no reason at all to be Ranged.If melee wasn't higher DPS there would be no reason at all to be melee as you would overall do less DPS in every single fight as you have to move more and lose time where you can't hit the boss at all.
Melee DPS should be increased to the point where most encounters end with melee DPS equivalent to Ranged DPS with all other things being equal.
Light armor should provide more DPS than Medium and Medium more than Heavy.
Allocating attribute points to Stamina/Magicka should result in higher DPS than allocating points to Health.Ranged DPS means nothing. When people are looking for someone to fill a DPS spot they are only interested in how much DPS you can achieve. They could care less about how you achieve it.Also, again, my point about Sorc being the highest ranged DPS is on the PTS.. as this is a discussion about PTS Patch Notes.
This isn't your garden variety mmo bud, the lighter the armor past heavy does not increase your dps anymore. Hell even WoW stopped doing that, same with swtor. Here in ESO heavy means tank, medium means melee, and light means ranged, most of the time, but even without the common archetypes, range should equal less damage but more range and mobility and cc, while melee equates to high risk high reward.
Sorry to say, but both are equal. This goes beyond just numbers.
How about melee and range produce same DPS overall but range is much more squishy ? That would be pretty fair imho.
Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Nightreaver wrote: »Ok, Ranged DPS has an advantage in THAT fight. It really doesn't tell us anything about the balance of the game.You go fight the Mantikora and see if you can DPS constantly in melee.
If the issue is balance then I'm much more interested in knowing:
1) Over the course of a Dungeon/Trial how does DPS compare among classes?
2) At the end of most boss encounters how does DPS compare among classes.
( Using several encounters, not just a couple specific fights that support one side or the other.
3) What armor were the people doing DPS using? (I would expect someone in Light to have an advantage over someone in Heavy)
4) How were attribute points distributed. ( I would expect someone with all points assigned to Magicka/Stamina to have an advantage over someone putting points into Health.If most encounters end with melee doing higher DPS then there is no reason at all to be Ranged.If melee wasn't higher DPS there would be no reason at all to be melee as you would overall do less DPS in every single fight as you have to move more and lose time where you can't hit the boss at all.
Melee DPS should be increased to the point where most encounters end with melee DPS equivalent to Ranged DPS with all other things being equal.
Light armor should provide more DPS than Medium and Medium more than Heavy.
Allocating attribute points to Stamina/Magicka should result in higher DPS than allocating points to Health.Ranged DPS means nothing. When people are looking for someone to fill a DPS spot they are only interested in how much DPS you can achieve. They could care less about how you achieve it.Also, again, my point about Sorc being the highest ranged DPS is on the PTS.. as this is a discussion about PTS Patch Notes.
This isn't your garden variety mmo bud, the lighter the armor past heavy does not increase your dps anymore. Hell even WoW stopped doing that, same with swtor. Here in ESO heavy means tank, medium means melee, and light means ranged, most of the time, but even without the common archetypes, range should equal less damage but more range and mobility and cc, while melee equates to high risk high reward.
Sorry to say, but both are equal. This goes beyond just numbers.
How about melee and range produce same DPS overall but range is much more squishy ? That would be pretty fair imho.
Exactly! If a melee player has to dodge and block so much and still does the same DPS as a ranged player, then that must mean they do more damage *per hit*. But in the end, things should balance out.
I simply can't believe people are still justifying that for some obscure reason during a minutes-long boss fight ranged players should be less powerful than melee. Because less powerful simply means less useful in end-game PvE, and it's already a fact that trials are heavily dominated by DK's as it is.
PlagueMonk wrote: »(failed to record #) Assassination passive, Master Assassin stun +100% is not working. With this passive and attacking from stealth with ambush I should be stunning for 2 secs. Doesn't work, never has.
.
Khivas_Carrick wrote: »This isn't your garden variety mmo bud, the lighter the armor past heavy does not increase your dps anymore. Hell even WoW stopped doing that, same with swtor. Here in ESO heavy means tank, medium means melee, and light means ranged, most of the time, but even without the common archetypes, range should equal less damage but more range and mobility and cc, while melee equates to high risk high reward.
Sorry to say, but both are equal. This goes beyond just numbers.
Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Here in ESO heavy means tank, medium means melee, and light means ranged
For which melee should be compensated in the form of greater DPS.....Khivas_Carrick wrote: »range should equal less damage but more range and mobility and cc, while melee equates to high risk high reward.
Nightreaver wrote: »For which melee should be compensated in the form of greater DPS.....Khivas_Carrick wrote: »range should equal less damage but more range and mobility and cc, while melee equates to high risk high reward.
But only to the point where encounters end with melee DPS matching Ranged. If most encounters are ending with melee DPS exceeding ranged DPS then either they have been overcompensated for it or the risk really wasn't that great.
AND if melee is assigning more attribute points to health and/or wearing medium/heavy armor for better survivability then those with more attribute points assigned to Magicka/Stamina and/or wearing Light armor should be doing even greater damage.
Putting less points in Health and only wearing Light armor should be considered as high risk, high reward.
Nightreaver wrote: »For which melee should be compensated in the form of greater DPS.....Khivas_Carrick wrote: »range should equal less damage but more range and mobility and cc, while melee equates to high risk high reward.
But only to the point where encounters end with melee DPS matching Ranged. If most encounters are ending with melee DPS exceeding ranged DPS then either they have been overcompensated for it or the risk really wasn't that great.
AND if melee is assigning more attribute points to health and/or wearing medium/heavy armor for better survivability then those with more attribute points assigned to Magicka/Stamina and/or wearing Light armor should be doing even greater damage.
Putting less points in Health and only wearing Light armor should be considered as high risk, high reward.
@Nightreaver I agree with your logic here.However, I will go a step further and say I don't think that with any class/weapon possibly having both close and long range distance skills, that ZOS can determine accurately who is ranged and who is melee so they shouldn't be basing stats on it, because they can't do it fairly with the game as it currently is.Under popular logic, people would assume that I am ranged due to being a sorcerer,wearing light armour and equipping a destruction staff. However, I spend most time in melee distance since that is how I AOE, which is what I've fed back inthis thread.
prototypefb wrote: »Nightreaver wrote: »For which melee should be compensated in the form of greater DPS.....Khivas_Carrick wrote: »range should equal less damage but more range and mobility and cc, while melee equates to high risk high reward.
But only to the point where encounters end with melee DPS matching Ranged. If most encounters are ending with melee DPS exceeding ranged DPS then either they have been overcompensated for it or the risk really wasn't that great.
AND if melee is assigning more attribute points to health and/or wearing medium/heavy armor for better survivability then those with more attribute points assigned to Magicka/Stamina and/or wearing Light armor should be doing even greater damage.
Putting less points in Health and only wearing Light armor should be considered as high risk, high reward.
@Nightreaver I agree with your logic here.However, I will go a step further and say I don't think that with any class/weapon possibly having both close and long range distance skills, that ZOS can determine accurately who is ranged and who is melee so they shouldn't be basing stats on it, because they can't do it fairly with the game as it currently is.Under popular logic, people would assume that I am ranged due to being a sorcerer,wearing light armour and equipping a destruction staff. However, I spend most time in melee distance since that is how I AOE, which is what I've fed back inthis thread.
and you still have your protection - annulment, aoe is a high risk, high reward spell, you can't just barge in masses of mobs and expect to wipe them without some skill(on 1.6 that is), you have to buff up/beef up/shield up etc to be able to do it. armor still hard caps at max 50%, to reach it you have to specialize a lot into it, average heavy armor player will get about 30% ish dmg reduction(non blocking) vs 10% ish light armor, which is fair enough.
You have a choice go near target or use different aoe from distance,higher risk vs increaed safety/options, you get to choose, you can still aoe from nearby just face lot more challenge doing it.
This will encourage different playstyles/diversity in groups.
I want to know also. What was the inappropriate text? Does anyone know?Oh and what about this one:Does anyone know how they were called before?Potions of Weapon Power no longer include inappropriate text. LOLOL.
As far as I can remember from the other thread, there were mentions of LOLOL in texts.I want to know also. What was the inappropriate text? Does anyone know?
Ok, so as one brick wall to anotherKhivas_Carrick wrote: »It's like arguing with a brick wall here. I understand that playing in light armour with spells leaves you rather open in terms of damage, yes your spells don't hit quite as hard, but you guys still overlook the fact that you attack faster, possess superior defensive resource management, i.e you don't use stamina to dodge and block or sprint to not die AND then attack. You guys get vastly stronger shields, healing spells, and evasion, and a better option to attack from range beyond a bow.
Plus those skills that are usable at melee? PvP skills hoss, it's meant to be used as a trap and/or getaway move, not much else, so don't bring that argument in here.
In fact all in seeing are some salty players who were previously super strong and ahead of everybody else complaining that things are now balanced out.
Nightreaver wrote: »Ok, so as one brick wall to anotherKhivas_Carrick wrote: »It's like arguing with a brick wall here. I understand that playing in light armour with spells leaves you rather open in terms of damage, yes your spells don't hit quite as hard, but you guys still overlook the fact that you attack faster, possess superior defensive resource management, i.e you don't use stamina to dodge and block or sprint to not die AND then attack. You guys get vastly stronger shields, healing spells, and evasion, and a better option to attack from range beyond a bow.
Plus those skills that are usable at melee? PvP skills hoss, it's meant to be used as a trap and/or getaway move, not much else, so don't bring that argument in here.
In fact all in seeing are some salty players who were previously super strong and ahead of everybody else complaining that things are now balanced out.
We attack faster? Speaking as the only class without an instant cast spammable attack who is this "you guys" you speak of?
We don't use stamina to dodge or block or sprint? Ok, what do we use to achieve those tasks instead of Stamina?
Vastly stronger heals? That coming from a Templar? Now I know your kidding.
Better range than a Bow? What Sorcerer ability provides greater range than a bow?
Evasion skills? What evasion skill do Sorcerers get?
Better defense resource management? Yes, at the cost of lower defense and survivability due to less armor, spell resist and health.
If you're in melee then I imagine you will be wearing Medium/Heavy armor with attributes assigned to Health. Both of which would lower your DPS when compared to someone in Light armor with attribute points assigned to Magicka/Stamina. If you're in Light armor with attribute points assigned to Stamina/Magicka then yes, I absolutely agree you should be doing more DPS overall.
This has nothing to do with any previous state of the game nor was it meant as a complaint. My response was simply meant to correct your claims that Light armor does not increase DPS.
Balance? How can you call it balanced if one form of DPS is always superior to another? If ranged is consistently providing better DPS then melee DPS needs to be buffed to compensate but if melee is consistently on top then they have clearly been overcompensated.
If you feel that melee should be further compensated for the additional risk they take then I feel anyone in Light armor who assign attribute points to Magicka/Stamina be given the compensation for the additional risk they take.
As far as that goes I have yet to see anything anywhere that supports that it is now balanced. Still waiting for someone to post test results comparing DPS between classes under the same constraints and conditions.
Gotta love how children resort to swearing and name calling when they get caught not having a clue what they're talking about. If you need to take a time out to have a good cry, then that's ok.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »so stfu and sit down ya scrub before you embarrass yourself further
Currently on Live I have all my attribute points assigned to Health, have since Beta. However on PTS I am having better luck with less Health and more points into Magicka to increase the size of my shield. But hey, I guess you know jack so you're the expert.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »every DPS, including ranged, has points in HP, and the fact you don't shows that you know jack about this game as literally every class and role puts points forward into HP.
You also didn't specify melee being Stamina or DPS Casters being required to use Resto staffs and yet in your response you claim both to be the case.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Also, iirc, I don't remember saying *** about Sorcerers but casters in general
Umm, wait, didn't you just say this was about casters in general and not about specific melee builds vs. specific DPS caster builds?Khivas_Carrick wrote: »And a caster with a restore staff definitely gets better heals than any stamina build using a healing spell, even a Templar
Khivas_Carrick wrote: »*snip*
Reduced the number of entrances to Outlaws Refuges based on your feedback. There is now one entrance outside the city, and one inside the city limits.
... I will find the person that gave this feedback, stab them, and will do my best to still find a refuge.
(I do not like this change)