ESO+ Subscription Benefits Suggestions

Raash

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

@Raash and @NewBlacksmurf Just to point out that the current payment model for the game is technically a Buy To Play with Optional Subscription.

So claiming there isn't a subscription and then gleefully proclaiming "ding ding ding" about that statement makes you both, factually and demonstrably, wrong.

All The Best

Can you read?
If yes, please take a look at this :

"ESO Plus™ is our premium membership service. Sign up now to receive in-game benefits that let you get the most out of your journeys in Tamriel. Members receive increased experience, faster crafting progression, and bonus gold along with access to all available DLC Game Packs and a monthly allotment of 1500 Crowns (total membership amount of crowns given at time of purchase) to spend in the in-game store on pets, mounts, costumes, and much more. ESO Plus™ is the best way to see everything ESOTU has to offer! Please note that access to DLC Game Packs granted by ESO Plus™ is only available while your membership remains active."

It is a "club" with members where you pay for crowns, perks and access to DLCs, nowhere does it say subscription.

A subscription is What ESO plus is by definition:

1.
the action of making or agreeing to make an advance payment in order to receive or participate in something.
"the newsletter is available only on subscription"

Seems you shot me down this time. Well done. Next time gadget, next time.

NewBlacksmurf

Raash wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

@Raash and @NewBlacksmurf Just to point out that the current payment model for the game is technically a Buy To Play with Optional Subscription.

So claiming there isn't a subscription and then gleefully proclaiming "ding ding ding" about that statement makes you both, factually and demonstrably, wrong.

All The Best

Can you read?
If yes, please take a look at this :

"ESO Plus™ is our premium membership service. Sign up now to receive in-game benefits that let you get the most out of your journeys in Tamriel. Members receive increased experience, faster crafting progression, and bonus gold along with access to all available DLC Game Packs and a monthly allotment of 1500 Crowns (total membership amount of crowns given at time of purchase) to spend in the in-game store on pets, mounts, costumes, and much more. ESO Plus™ is the best way to see everything ESOTU has to offer! Please note that access to DLC Game Packs granted by ESO Plus™ is only available while your membership remains active."

It is a "club" with members where you pay for crowns, perks and access to DLCs, nowhere does it say subscription.

A subscription is What ESO plus is by definition:

1.
the action of making or agreeing to make an advance payment in order to receive or participate in something.
"the newsletter is available only on subscription"

Seems you shot me down this time. Well done. Next time gadget, next time.

Raash

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

You are failing to understand what it is and therefore struggling to argue other points that you have. It is a sub
The terms of this sub do not warrant play but instead align with benefits. This doesn't change what it is

You are right actually, but the game has no sub. Crowns and perks does however. People still see it as the game has a sub - wich it doesnt - in what other way could anyone explain the differences between what is what when its an additional membership that runs parallell with the game.

ZOS_MichelleA

Hey there, folks. This thread is deviating into an off topic debate over the semantics of the word "subscription," rather than discussing the topic at hand (the suggestions outlined in the original post). Please steer the discussion back on topic. Thanks!

SeptimusDova

NO!!!
As per EULA we own nothing. For everything you suggested the companies have a work around.So not just no but [snip] no!

consider their 10 percent xp. LOLOLOLOLOLO remember the XP NERF!!!!

They are a business who goal is to used car salesmen you out of your money to make a profit.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Raash

ZOS_MichelleA wrote: »

Hey there, folks. This thread is deviating into an off topic debate over the semantics of the word "subscription," rather than discussing the topic at hand (the suggestions outlined in the original post). Please steer the discussion back on topic. Thanks!

Ok fair enough. I say no to all those suggestions. It would be unfair in a B2P game. The End.

NewBlacksmurf

Raash wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

You are failing to understand what it is and therefore struggling to argue other points that you have. It is a sub
The terms of this sub do not warrant play but instead align with benefits. This doesn't change what it is

You are right actually, but the game has no sub. Crowns and perks does however. People still see it as the game has a sub - wich it doesnt - in what other way could anyone explain the differences between what is what when its an additional membership that runs parallell with the game.

Per the above...let's move on please

Raash

Per the above...let's move on please

Indeed we should, I have ended the whole discussion already. They might aswell lock the thread with the words "suggestions denied as they does not fit current payment model."

Earelith

While I do plan to have a ESO plus sub when it comes to consoles, your comparisons in the first post is with games that are F2P...don't forget that ESO is not f2p but B2P. All players in the game have already payed some money (in my case 80 euro for the imperial edition).

So I think that the comparison with the f2p games subscription benefits is not fair. In those games, most players are hippies while only few players pay the bills. It is natural that those games offer great advantages for those players that pay.

I find the eso plus benefits very good for a B2P game.

Gidorick

Earelith wrote: »

While I do plan to have a ESO plus sub when it comes to consoles, your comparisons in the first post is with games that are F2P...don't forget that ESO is not f2p but B2P. All players in the game have already payed some money (in my case 80 euro for the imperial edition).

So I think that the comparison with the f2p games subscription benefits is not fair. In those games, most players are hippies while only few players pay the bills. It is natural that those games offer great advantages for those players that pay.

I find the eso plus benefits very good for a B2P game.

The Secret World is a Buy to Play game.

What other subscription optional buy to play games are you considering to make the determination that ESO+ benefits are good for a B2P game?

Earelith

Gidorick wrote: »

Earelith wrote: »

While I do plan to have a ESO plus sub when it comes to consoles, your comparisons in the first post is with games that are F2P...don't forget that ESO is not f2p but B2P. All players in the game have already payed some money (in my case 80 euro for the imperial edition).

So I think that the comparison with the f2p games subscription benefits is not fair. In those games, most players are hippies while only few players pay the bills. It is natural that those games offer great advantages for those players that pay.

I find the eso plus benefits very good for a B2P game.

The Secret World is a Buy to Play game.

What other subscription optional buy to play games are you considering to make the determination that ESO+ benefits are good for a B2P game?

Well, GW2 does not even have a subscription option So there is not a viable way to make comparison with other B2P games (very few, actually other than GW2 and TSW I don't know other).

What I do know for sure is that a B2P player that don't have a sub shouldn't be treated like a f2p player..that means that the difference between the subscriber and non subscriber shouldn't be "dramatic".

Gidorick

Then your point about the benefits being good "for a buy to pay game" must be measured against the secret world.

The Secret World
-The Time Accelerator. This clickable item increases experience gain for defeating monsters by 100% for 1 hour and has a 23 hour cool-down. This item can only be used by Members and Grand Masters.
-$10 worth of Bonus Points given out every month which can be used towards any product in the Item Store of The Secret World (bonus points are valid for 6 months).
-Membership Item-of-the-month gift (given out every month).
-10% discount to everything in the Item Store including Content Packs (discounts to the Item Store do not stack with other offers).
-Early Access to any new DLC (usually 3 days before non-members get access)

Elder Scrolls Online
-1500 crowns per 30-day membership period
-Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership
-10% bonus to experience point gain
-10% bonus to crafting research
-10% bonus to crafting inspiration gain
-10% bonus to gold acquisition

Just looking at these two, I would call it a draw. The secret world doesn't give access to its DLC which are called "issues", but there are membership items, 10% store discount and early access.... 6 of one 7 of the other. The draw is only considering the DLC access. Right now, with no DLC, The Secret World wins. No contest. Also TSW entices a player to be a subscriber month after month with monthly items. ESO+ encourages me to "play" the subscription model so I only up paying $15 to play through DLC....

So if your argument is that ESO+ shouldn't include more benefits because it's a buy to play game and NOT a free to pay game then I guess you have successfully convinced me that ESO should have gone free to play.

Earelith

@Gidorick I wouldn't call it a draw I would chose a passive 10% increase all time over a 1-hour buff for 100% with 24 hour cooldown. The first is active all time and does not make you rush to take advantage of it. The other will force you to play in a very specific way to get the full advantage. Plus ESO have 10% buff to crafting and gold..

Also I prefer full access to DLC than just early access. Also the 10% discount, while good, is not too much to consider..a costume that cost 700 crowns would cost 630. Just the DLC I would have to buy on top of my subscription, I think that I would lose a lot more than what I would gain from a 10% discount. The random item is rng, you may like it or not.

Now for f2p ...trust me f2p is much much worse. The cost for the game is increase due to much more players coming to play/try and all the downlads and the support being asked..and in addition the only way for the developer to get income is from the store cause there wont be an initial buy from the player.

That leads to shity and tricky developer design choices. The game start evolving around the shop and developers try to manipulate players to use the store, either by selling clear advancements or by creating annoyances that players will have to pay to skip them.

In B2P you have already got payed from all the players and whatever you sell on the store is some extras. So you are not desperate to guide all players to the store and you are not going to radically change you design philosophy in favor of the shop.

Thats my opinion

Gidorick

You completely ignored the monthly gift... the thing that would encourage players to remain subscribed month after month. I was considering the service as a whole. Not piecemeal because I don't think any of the individual benefits can be compared because they provide different benefits. But let's consider the 1 hour of 100% buff over 10% always buff.

If you played every day... and used the 100% 1 hour xp boost in your first hour every day and you earned a set number of XP per hour you would have to play both games for 10 hours for the XP to be equal. Any less and The Secret World player has more extra XP than the Elder Scrolls Player. You may prefer the 10% (to be honest I do also) but the 100% buff for one hour is by far a better benefit to the player.

But like I said, I'm considering the benefits as a whole, not one to one comparisons, because there aren't any.

Also, the tactics used by f2p used are because of the reliance on the CASH shop, not the lack of an initial purchase. They are ALREADY making design choices around the cash shop and the free/buy to play model. DLC will allow the player to level. That means that's not there for end game progression.... DLC is being designed as something anyone can play at any time. That's quite different from Craglorn's design, which was as end game content.

What will ZOS do after Console sales dry up? Maybe they will produce enough DLC and cat mounts to bring in enough revenue? We don't know, that's up to ZOS. My assumption.... ESO will go free to play. No reason not to if box sales are no longer bringing in the revenue.

I guess I'll revisit the subscription benefits issue then.

Cry_Wolfe

I am a huge fan of a loyalty rewards scheme where you get a loyalty reward based on time subscribed. I'd even happily see my senche tiger become the 15 months reward if it meant i'd be getting a 24 month [insert reward here]. Players love prestige items, unique items, buffs boons and sparkly shinies.
3 month 10 Champion Points
6 months item spell "Meridia's Light: Disco"
9 months costume
12 months unique style motif: Morag Tong(?)
15 months senche mount: White Tiger
18 months Pet
21 months map pack (per character) Random 1 Zone only, 6 maps
24 months bug mount (lol)
27 months Etcetera
30 months 24 hour Cool Down Banker Henchman summon spell/item
As the game ages it will be improbable to keep rewards fresh or even really desirable, but the point is to make 1 every now and then that is a stretch goal.

Cheaper Crown store purchases, because subscribers are less likely to stop playing a game and if they do decide to take a break they leave their subs running quite often, reward their loyalty AND encourage them to buy from the store.

Access to another subscriber only (balanced) class, freebs must pay outright. Or any other scheme to make Freebs jealous, ZoS should aim to make more players see value in the subscription, the Crown store will inevitably get a larger and more interesting stock as the number crunchers see what people are intersted in and as various experiments are trialed on ingame purchases, when a point is reached where the Crown Store is turning over stock, then the Subscription can and should be seen as an extra and valued cash flow.
Perks such as being able to trial new content and classes before purchasing them, should not be downplayed, because if a sub does lapse, the player if and when they return will want to play ALL of their characters and all of the content, be that via resubbing or having to purchase what they previously enjoyed for free.



edit: just to add that for many games that i have trialed, where the difference between free and subbed was overly large, I have felt turned off of that game because of a feeling of being manipulated into HAVING to get a sub ... it is a slippery slope.

Gidorick

You get it @Cry_Wolfe. And I tried to suggest benefits that would make the sub feel like a bonus and not make the lack of subs feel greatly inferior. That's one reason I recently removed a few suggestions... they were a bit elitist.

wraith808

In the end, they want us to pay in order to support the game. Currently, there is no reason to do so. The incentives they offer don't incentivize me to do so. I have a lot of crowns... and I don't really see anything to spend them on, so they sit there. At the end of my current six months, if the crowns sit there with nothing I want to spend them on, and the incentives are not there, I will not renew it.

So therefore, discussing incentives is very much on topic, no matter how some are totally fine with it. Because those that are totally fine with it might not be enough to maintain the game. Removing our support is how we vote. And after a while of waiting and seeing, it is an option that I'm looking at taking.

Yinmaigao

wraith808 wrote: »

In the end, they want us to pay in order to support the game. Currently, there is no reason to do so. The incentives they offer don't incentivize me to do so. I have a lot of crowns... and I don't really see anything to spend them on, so they sit there.

This is exactly how I feel right now. I desperately want to love this game and play it more... but the content just isn't there and it is a pain to justify paying other than I really want ESO to succeed.

Cagro

I really hope ESO's Plus Membership does not give any more benefits to subscribers. I am a Plus Member myself but does not like unfair advantages.

Gidorick

Cagro wrote: »

I really hope ESO's Plus Membership does not give any more benefits to subscribers. I am a Plus Member myself but does not like unfair advantages.

Do you think any of my suggestions will offer an unfair advantage?

Marginis

I feel ESO's current balance as far as subscriber benefits goes is quite well done actually. Giving subscribers something exclusive, something that cannot be gotten by non-subscribers, is definitely not a good option in my opinion. The best way to work it is to make things easier or faster for them, like discounts in the crown store (as was suggested) and the current experience boosts. Giving subscribers something that non-subscribers simply can NEVER get opens Zenimax to a slippery slope that loses them players. As far as I would imagine, the whole point of opening up the game to non-paying players is to gain players overall, even if they lose subscribers. The crown store as I see it is a fair response to losing subscribers (which is of course what they planned on happening anyway).

As for my personal situation, I set up my subscription before the game was even released on PC, and kept it going until a little while after ESO dropped the need for a subscription. I stopped my sub, and instead just spent my money on the crown store, where I currently own pretty much everything that's been available from it.

The way I see it, at least from my perspective, is that I've spent more money for the amount of time I've been playing with being UNSUBBED because of the crown store. I realize subscriptions keep people invested and makes them feel like an elite class of players, but what everyone should remember is that the non-subscribing players are worth a lot too, so something that would please subscribers but displease non-subscribers, like an exclusive area to explore, might not be the best move for anyone.

Gidorick

Marginis wrote: »

I feel ESO's current balance as far as subscriber benefits goes is quite well done actually. Giving subscribers something exclusive, something that cannot be gotten by non-subscribers, is definitely not a good option in my opinion. The best way to work it is to make things easier or faster for them, like discounts in the crown store (as was suggested) and the current experience boosts. Giving subscribers something that non-subscribers simply can NEVER get opens Zenimax to a slippery slope that loses them players. As far as I would imagine, the whole point of opening up the game to non-paying players is to gain players overall, even if they lose subscribers. The crown store as I see it is a fair response to losing subscribers (which is of course what they planned on happening anyway).

As for my personal situation, I set up my subscription before the game was even released on PC, and kept it going until a little while after ESO dropped the need for a subscription. I stopped my sub, and instead just spent my money on the crown store, where I currently own pretty much everything that's been available from it.

The way I see it, at least from my perspective, is that I've spent more money for the amount of time I've been playing with being UNSUBBED because of the crown store. I realize subscriptions keep people invested and makes them feel like an elite class of players, but what everyone should remember is that the non-subscribing players are worth a lot too, so something that would please subscribers but displease non-subscribers, like an exclusive area to explore, might not be the best move for anyone.

So subscriber only items is a no-go? I can't really argue against that. I'm of the opinion that cosmetic only rewards for subscribers are good to go. So, I take it you agree with the removal of the loyalty program.

Wreuntzylla

Whether these should be membership benefits, sold in the crown store or changed in the game, these are fairly innocuous suggestions and are directed to things that irritate me constantly, or I would find interesting. I know I am forgetting some, but this is a start.

1. Argonian Relief: Race change.
2. Doppelganger: Ability to apply any race model to an existing character without changing race. Can customize.
3. Summon Hermaeus Mora: One question per month answered by ZoS (no requirement of a definitive answer).
4. Relieve Purgatory: Faster patch download speeds.
5. Repair Ugly: Ability to apply any style to existing, bound gear if a Master Crafter (similar to Imperial ability).
6. Make Awesome: Ability to apply a gear model from previous level ranges to existing, bound gear if a Master Crafter.
7. Peep Like Tom: Ability to inspect other players (abilities/gear/consumables/stats).
8. Banish Forced Farming: 50% chance that a potion is not consumed on use.
9. Banish Akward Moment: Ability to resurrect a player without a soul gem once per hour.
10. Good Old Members Club: PvP queue priority and ability to travel to players on different PvP servers even if pop locked.
11. Home for the Crotchety: Lower player limit on guild membership and guild bank access.
13. Mail Delivery Hireling: Collects in game mail from every alt and delivers it to your mailbox when the first toon is logged in.
14. Post Office: Location to receive mails over the cap limit so that new mails are not delayed.
15. Equestrian Skill Training Service: Alts are trained in their riding skills while a different character is logged in.
16. Squire Hireling: Hireling undresses one alt and dresses another alt with the same gear. Gear is polished - 5 min glow.
18. Banker Hireling: Summon a hireling to provide for your banking needs once per hour.
19. Game Compendium: Neat tips. For example, locations with the highest yield of a particular material.
20. Improved Map: Map can be toggled to show defined areas - e.g., the borders of Upper Craglorn for Nirn harvesting.
21. Diplomatic Immunity: Guards cannot accost hero within 30min of saving a portion of Tamriel, one day for all of Tamriel.
22. Forever Tamriel: After three year of continuous membership, ability to retire a toon as an NPC with selectable dialogue.

NewBlacksmurf

keep it simple,
don't focus or change anything regarding ESP plus.

Release DLC and content...add any other benefits as potions in the crown store

problems solved

BigM

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Whether these should be membership benefits, sold in the crown store or changed in the game, these are fairly innocuous suggestions and are directed to things that irritate me constantly, or I would find interesting. I know I am forgetting some, but this is a start.

1. Argonian Relief: Race change.
2. Doppelganger: Ability to apply any race model to an existing character without changing race. Can customize.
3. Summon Hermaeus Mora: One question per month answered by ZoS (no requirement of a definitive answer).
4. Relieve Purgatory: Faster patch download speeds.
5. Repair Ugly: Ability to apply any style to existing, bound gear if a Master Crafter (similar to Imperial ability).
6. Make Awesome: Ability to apply a gear model from previous level ranges to existing, bound gear if a Master Crafter.
7. Peep Like Tom: Ability to inspect other players (abilities/gear/consumables/stats).
8. Banish Forced Farming: 50% chance that a potion is not consumed on use.
9. Banish Akward Moment: Ability to resurrect a player without a soul gem once per hour.
10. Good Old Members Club: PvP queue priority and ability to travel to players on different PvP servers even if pop locked.
11. Home for the Crotchety: Lower player limit on guild membership and guild bank access.
13. Mail Delivery Hireling: Collects in game mail from every alt and delivers it to your mailbox when the first toon is logged in.
14. Post Office: Location to receive mails over the cap limit so that new mails are not delayed.
15. Equestrian Skill Training Service: Alts are trained in their riding skills while a different character is logged in.
16. Squire Hireling: Hireling undresses one alt and dresses another alt with the same gear. Gear is polished - 5 min glow.
18. Banker Hireling: Summon a hireling to provide for your banking needs once per hour.
19. Game Compendium: Neat tips. For example, locations with the highest yield of a particular material.
20. Improved Map: Map can be toggled to show defined areas - e.g., the borders of Upper Craglorn for Nirn harvesting.
21. Diplomatic Immunity: Guards cannot accost hero within 30min of saving a portion of Tamriel, one day for all of Tamriel.
22. Forever Tamriel: After three year of continuous membership, ability to retire a toon as an NPC with selectable dialogue.

You played LOTRO didn't you.

nine9six

As a Subscriber, I think the 'perks' are a little Weak...but I always Subscribe to games I enjoy...so here I am!

I love where the OP is going with this thread. I understand that not all will be for it...but I'd love for there to be more of an incentive to Subscribe.

I personally care nothing for mounts or pets, and I'm hording all 13,000+ Crowns I have until the day there's something worth spending them on (content?).

Gidorick

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

keep it simple,
don't focus or change anything regarding ESP plus.

Release DLC and content...add any other benefits as potions in the crown store

problems solved

You know, I've concluded that IF DLC were being released then I'd probably not be suggesting this stuff but the gap between ESO:TU and the first DLC is likely going to be about 6 months. That's 6 months that ESO is just not worth it.

I'm fairly certain they have no desires at all to change the sub in any way. So this thread is conjecture.

dafox187

i love the monthly treasure idea im getting bored of CE ones

Marginis

Gidorick wrote: »

So subscriber only items is a no-go? I can't really argue against that. I'm of the opinion that cosmetic only rewards for subscribers are good to go. So, I take it you agree with the removal of the loyalty program.

Really the loyalty program was fine with me. That's honestly what kept me subscribed as long as I was. What the difference is is the game's climate. That was when subscribers were the only players of ESO, so, the most loyal players get something a little extra. Now, since we include non-subscribers in the category of "players", we shouldn't do something like an exclusive for subscribers, being as now some of the "most loyal players", like myself, can be non-subscribers.

I can still agree with stuff like cosmetic benefits or exclusives for players who have been playing the game since a certain date, or have a certain amount of "loyalty", it's just that being a subscriber or not is not a good metric to judge that by anymore.

And again, this is just my opinion, although I feel that my view is the appropriate one.

wraith808

Marginis wrote: »

The way I see it, at least from my perspective, is that I've spent more money for the amount of time I've been playing with being UNSUBBED because of the crown store. I realize subscriptions keep people invested and makes them feel like an elite class of players, but what everyone should remember is that the non-subscribing players are worth a lot too, so something that would please subscribers but displease non-subscribers, like an exclusive area to explore, might not be the best move for anyone.

The thing about it is that the crown store is not reliable income for them, so does not let them plan ahead, budget, etc. That's what subscriptions (ESO+ or whatever you want to call it) allow for. When a game becomes focused on the in-game store, that's where madness lies. There was a really good post on reddit from a developer of said software that focused on how he hated the store approach. It read right, and better than anything I could put forth, from a developer that has worked on such.

The focus becomes around what will make the most conversions rather than what is good for the game. And that's why games start to be p2w. Because the whales that support the game will pay more for the p2w things than they will for things that actually affect the underlying game.