DK 1.6 Discussion

Rydik

With new ulti cost, ulti regen and Cinder nerf (miss chance) 1vX dead for DK or nearly dead...
Hate new ulti regen system, because it dont care if you fight 1 enemy or 20, all same 84 sec cd(without buffs) for Standart of Might =\
Other changes seems ok for now, need testing...

XEVENEX

Rydik wrote: »

With new ulti cost, ulti regen and Cinder nerf (miss chance) 1vX dead for DK or nearly dead...

That's fantastic.

Rydik

XEVENEX wrote: »

Rydik wrote: »

With new ulti cost, ulti regen and Cinder nerf (miss chance) 1vX dead for DK or nearly dead...

That's fantastic.

Ya ya, everyone fear big scary DK=D
For pvp its ok, for pve not even close to good.

kaorunandrak

I love my DK, but one man versus an army in pvp is and should be considered by all BS. I can understand not liking how the new system works due to the fact it is a "change" and humans hate change over all especially if goes against their wishes/wants/ and "what I build my character to do". However ultimate generation HAD to be standardized multiple ultimate from the same person or perma ultimate is BS and was not what ultimates were designed for.

The current ultimate gain on test is fine: however I would support a system that allowed all skills and block to apply a 1 ult per second buff, light attacks a 3 ult per second, and heavy attacks and interrupt a 6 per second buff. Or at least something along those lines. That way every one is always building ultimate and you can use any play style you want.

rophez_ESO

Seems DK got the short end of the deal on getting a class based execute. It only works on heavy attacks? Templar execute is amazing...

Haven't done much testing on PTS yet, but not really excited about DK changes so far. I'll try some more stuff tonight.

Aaramis

xMovingTarget wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Stamina DK gonna be good

They were already pretty good

I'm actually interested in Dual Wield now on DK hehe

In PvE it wasnt that great(Dualwield/2H). But could get new FOTM. All i gonna say

Do tell.
I was 1h/shield and DW on live, and found the DW awesome for everything except bosses. Talons triggered Ruffian, which boosted Whirlwind damage, which made for very efficient (and safe) AoE executes. Also gave great single-target dps with Flurry and Twin Slashes. It'll be even better now, obviously, that we can go Sta and benefit from most Ardent Flame abilities improving....but please share your thoughts on this.

Having seen NBs now doing crazy dps, I don't think you need to be shy about whatever you've found.

xMovingTarget

Aaramis wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Stamina DK gonna be good

They were already pretty good

I'm actually interested in Dual Wield now on DK hehe

In PvE it wasnt that great(Dualwield/2H). But could get new FOTM. All i gonna say

Do tell.
I was 1h/shield and DW on live, and found the DW awesome for everything except bosses. Talons triggered Ruffian, which boosted Whirlwind damage, which made for very efficient (and safe) AoE executes. Also gave great single-target dps with Flurry and Twin Slashes. It'll be even better now, obviously, that we can go Sta and benefit from most Ardent Flame abilities improving....but please share your thoughts on this.

Having seen NBs now doing crazy dps, I don't think you need to be shy about whatever you've found.

I will once i get my Chars over on PTS.

Rylana

XEVENEX wrote: »

Rydik wrote: »

With new ulti cost, ulti regen and Cinder nerf (miss chance) 1vX dead for DK or nearly dead...

That's fantastic.

Its actually a bad thing because it removes the entire option of a spearheaded push

You people think too much about 1 guy taking on everyone etc. It also destroys coordinated territory control in open field and inside keeps. With no anchor to support the front of the group, the game is relegated purely to ranged pewpew and nothing else.

kaorunandrak

Corrosive armor?

Fruity_Ninja

Aaramis wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Stamina DK gonna be good

They were already pretty good

I'm actually interested in Dual Wield now on DK hehe

In PvE it wasnt that great(Dualwield/2H). But could get new FOTM. All i gonna say

Do tell.
I was 1h/shield and DW on live, and found the DW awesome for everything except bosses. Talons triggered Ruffian, which boosted Whirlwind damage, which made for very efficient (and safe) AoE executes. Also gave great single-target dps with Flurry and Twin Slashes. It'll be even better now, obviously, that we can go Sta and benefit from most Ardent Flame abilities improving....but please share your thoughts on this.

Having seen NBs now doing crazy dps, I don't think you need to be shy about whatever you've found.

Was the flurry nerf noticeable?

paulsimonps

I have yet to read all comments in the thread but I wanted to give my own little impression here. As a DK Tank using mainly stamina I feel like I have gotten a buff. I used stamina even when people said stamina was bad and I still cleared all the content just fine, now I feel like my choices paid off.

The skill part of my build has not changed, I use Hardened Armor, Pierce Armor, Deep Slash, Absorb Magic and Green Dragon Blood. That gives me Major Resolve, Major Ward, Major Fortitude and Major Endurance, it also applies Major Breach, Major Fracture and Minor Maim on the enemies. This combined with the effects I can get via the Champion system has given me more survivability than before and I can help the team more with the debuffs I can cause.

Since I have been testing this on a template character I have yet to try it out with full gear so one thing that I have been struggling with is stamina, but I imagine that with proper gear and some points spent in the right place in the Champion system the cost of blocking, bashing and other stamina abilities will be much lower and will be able to be sustained for a long period of time.

So all in all I like this change and I think that premade groups where you complement each others buffs and debuffs will be the way to go, it will make sure the group is at its strongest and the enemies at their weakest. And for those that would want to argue for solo content, it is of my opinion that in an MMO, a multiplayer game, the focus should be in the group effort and not only on personal gain. For example if everyone wants to debuff the same target because that is how they as individuals would act then it will be wasting energy and effort since you can only apply one minor and major debuff on an enemy just like you can only apply one minor and major buff of each kind of yourself or others. It would be in the groups best interest to spread that out.

Side note: I think the new ulti gain system is pretty good, it slows down the ulti for most high dps and healers but that only makes it so that you can use it less often. That makes it feel more like an ultimate ability rather than just another skill that you use but is gained in a different way.

Again that is just my opinion.

Gorthax

Armitas wrote: »

I find that almost all of my banners get immediately evacuated or immediately negated. 250 ultimate wasted in 1 second. The synergy at 2.5 just isn't going to happen unless people are stacking on a dime which they theoretically should not be right now.

I feel like the damage buff and damage reduction from this morph should now stick on the player not the banner for this increased cost. That way if it's negated or evacuated you still have something besides a wasted pile of ultimate.

What this change does is make Vampire a clear and almost necessary choice if you want an aoe ultimate for a group. The fire damage just got nerfed by 10%, and there is fire resist in the champ system, I'm a nord so that is -6% more, and less damage as your health gets lower like a reverse execute. Oh yeah and it doesn't get negated every time you use it.

I really don't want to be a vampire, but the Twilight Movies just aren't a good enough excuse anymore.

I like reading peoples feed back on their favorite class. That being said, sucks doesnt it when you feel like you wasted an ultimate......you DKs reflect meteors....METEORS! thats a wasted ultimate right there lol Negate....yea people step out of that too. Little advice, the *** immovable makes you immune to the negates silence.

That above tidbit is why armor skills SHOULD be 5 piece specific. Either or, I think DKs are sitting pretty good where they are at

Aaramis

Played a little bit yesterday on a lowbie DK I had transferred over (mid-30s). Went full stamina build, with health enchants, and found it to be pretty good dps. Between dual axes, twin slashes, and searing strike, that's a lot of DoT damage.

Shifting standard was far superior to Might. 2 Standards for the price of 1. Pure silliness. Although Might's damage reduction may prove insanely useful in dungeons if some of the mobs are left as is. We'll see. I did quite enjoy the change to the banner, though. Very nice touch.

More testing later.

Night-claw

Gorthax wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I find that almost all of my banners get immediately evacuated or immediately negated. 250 ultimate wasted in 1 second. The synergy at 2.5 just isn't going to happen unless people are stacking on a dime which they theoretically should not be right now.

I feel like the damage buff and damage reduction from this morph should now stick on the player not the banner for this increased cost. That way if it's negated or evacuated you still have something besides a wasted pile of ultimate.

What this change does is make Vampire a clear and almost necessary choice if you want an aoe ultimate for a group. The fire damage just got nerfed by 10%, and there is fire resist in the champ system, I'm a nord so that is -6% more, and less damage as your health gets lower like a reverse execute. Oh yeah and it doesn't get negated every time you use it.

I really don't want to be a vampire, but the Twilight Movies just aren't a good enough excuse anymore.

I like reading peoples feed back on their favorite class. That being said, sucks doesnt it when you feel like you wasted an ultimate......you DKs reflect meteors....METEORS! thats a wasted ultimate right there lol Negate....yea people step out of that too. Little advice, the *** immovable makes you immune to the negates silence.

That above tidbit is why armor skills SHOULD be 5 piece specific. Either or, I think DKs are sitting pretty good where they are at

go away.

Nijjion

So because the nerf of Standard changing to 250 ult, I was looking at the other ults and...

This was quiet/left out on the patch notes... Magma Armor/Corrosive Armor - Ignores all armor with physical attacks for duration.

This seems like great synergy with stamina builds. A plus is that other classes can't call it OP due to NBs having a 75% debuff to both resists since the start.

paulsimonps

Nijjion wrote: »

This was quiet/left out on the patch notes... Magma Armor/Corrosive Armor - Ignores all armor with physical attacks for duration.

This seems like great synergy with stamina builds. A plus is that other classes can't call it OP due to NBs having a 75% debuff to both resists since the start.

That is not true anymore with the NB's, their mark target does give of a debuff but its not 75% anymore. What is does is apply a Major Fracture and a Major Breach which for example someone with one-handed and shield can also do with Pierce Armor, which from my numbers is around 5.1k reduction.

But I do agree that a dps stamina build could potentially benefit greatly from using Corrosive Armor. But remember that it is only that morph of the ulti that does the 100% armor penetration.

Armitas

Molten Whip - While slotted, the damage of Ardent Flame Abilities is increased by 101.

In the land of giant numbers isn't 101 damage like 1damage?

Maybe it's a tool tip bug as the durations are reversed for wall of elements, and the listed damage is the same as live.

Fruity_Ninja

Armitas wrote: »

Molten Whip - While slotted, the damage of Ardent Flame Abilities is increased by 101.

In the land of giant numbers isn't 101 damage like 1damage?

Maybe it's a tool tip bug as the durations are reversed for wall of elements, and the listed damage is the same as live.

On top of that it doesn't even apply the 101 damage (at least in the tooltip). The ability is either bugged, or the tooltip is bugged.

OtarTheMad

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Molten Whip - While slotted, the damage of Ardent Flame Abilities is increased by 101.

In the land of giant numbers isn't 101 damage like 1damage?

Maybe it's a tool tip bug as the durations are reversed for wall of elements, and the listed damage is the same as live.

On top of that it doesn't even apply the 101 damage (at least in the tooltip). The ability is either bugged, or the tooltip is bugged.

It's probably bugged, to be safe I'd say report it on the feedback forum and in a /feedback in game.

Armitas

Going to go through a couple of skills here. Everything past volatile armor has already been said, but the rest I think you will find new.

Ash Cloud. - Cinderstorm needs to be the dps one as both the icon and the animation have fire in it, whereas the dps one, eruption now is just a black cloud

• Cinderstorm - This morph (snares for 2.5 more seconds) has no worthwhile practical application in PvP or PvE. Snare is a non factor in pvp raids due to maneuver, dodge roll, and bolt, Snare has an application in PvE to keep mobs clustered but the 2.5 second addition is wasted on mobs that don't care if they stand in a snare.
• Eruption Now - The damage on this is 5 less than elemental blockade, it lasts 3x as long and the initial hit is comparable to the explosion of unstable wall. It is better in every way however this is only because unstable wall appears to not be updated. Elemental wall is hitting for about the same amount of damage on live.
• The damage is non existent and the snare is only used to keep mob clusters in place. We now have a new useless T5 skill to replace the formerly useless inferno. The damage is not there, and the snare is not worth a whole slot, bring the miss chance back.

Molten Weapons. - This skill lasts 9.6 seconds with passive and no indication through FTC or internally whether it is on or off.

• Igneous Weapons - At Rank 4 each heavy attack only adds 1 second. If you like mental addition while you fight then you will enjoy using this skill. Otherwise you will be left to wonder whether or not you have it on you because you have better things to do with your time then mentally counting down while counting up at the same time.
• Molten Armaments - This morph does no damage until execute levels, making it a costly slot. On cast there is no way to predict how many heavy attacks you can accomplish before you have to re-apply it, additionally you lose dps casting this thing every 9 seconds. In PvP an execute has to occur in a narrow window before the opponent gets up, heals up, or shields up. It would be very difficult to get an effective use out of this in that window.

Inferno - Great Crit, the Fire ball is aoe as it hits all mobs in range simultaneously. It does around 700 a hit every second for 8 seconds which is suppose to compare to the damage from inner lights +5% magicka. I don't know if it compares but it makes no sense to have an 8 second dot on a skill that auto refreshes every 5 seconds. That guarantees that 3 seconds get clipped every 5 seconds. That makes no sense. It should scale with molten whip when it works.

• Flames of Oblivion - nice choice for stamina users. Gives you the same crit for your weapons while hanging on to that spell crit as well.
• Sea of Flames - Never saw this work. IF a fireball kills something it restores 116 magicka. First 116 magicka is nothing in 1.6. Second the chance that a mob dies to 700 damage is very unlikely.

Volatile Armor - Patch notes are a bit misleading. This doesn't increase the damage return. On activation you apply an additional dot over half the duration of the armor. Triggers the Skoria set very well as it's a "double dot". As much as I like that double dot I would rather have it rolled into the existing dot as more damage. The reason being is that if a new enemy approaches after the initial cast he will not receive any additional damage. As no one will be casting this for the extra dot, it will often go unused whereas if you roll it into the inherent dot it will not.

Molten Whip - Already mentioned in this thread. It is not updating ardent flame skills with more damage.

Fiery Grip - No one likes getting pushed when they want to pull, they especially don't like not knowing which will occur. Getting pulled into a zerg, or out of heals is bad.

Banner of Might - With regens being under powered and DK magicka regen tied to Battle roars I see this dropping for faster ultimates like Dawnbreaker. I can go through 2.5 dawnbreakers by the time I get 1 banner. For PvP this will just push people to bats, because banners are evacuated or negated immediately in PvP.

Seraphyel

I think... the changes for the "caster" DKs are quite good.

A little tweaking and it should be fine.

Joy_Division

Gorthax wrote: »

I like reading peoples feed back on their favorite class. That being said, sucks doesnt it when you feel like you wasted an ultimate......you DKs reflect meteors....METEORS! thats a wasted ultimate right there lol Negate....yea people step out of that too. Little advice, the *** immovable makes you immune to the negates silence.

That above tidbit is why armor skills SHOULD be 5 piece specific. Either or, I think DKs are sitting pretty good where they are at

What does meteor and immovable have to do with DKs?

Khivas_Carrick

Joy_Division wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

I like reading peoples feed back on their favorite class. That being said, sucks doesnt it when you feel like you wasted an ultimate......you DKs reflect meteors....METEORS! thats a wasted ultimate right there lol Negate....yea people step out of that too. Little advice, the *** immovable makes you immune to the negates silence.

That above tidbit is why armor skills SHOULD be 5 piece specific. Either or, I think DKs are sitting pretty good where they are at

What does meteor and immovable have to do with DKs?

Clearly you missed the point that you guys would not only nullify an entire ultimate, but then turn it on enemy, and only scales would do this no less.

And it's ironic that people are having the balls to complain about having people ignore their ultimates, while everybody else has been through this *** before.

Welcome to the new world.

Armitas

Meteor has nothing to do with this thread, and neither is anyone saying it should be reflected. In fact many DKs including myself don't think it should be reflected, and have said as much. There is already another thread discussing Meteor and reflect on the PTS so there is no reason to come forum warrioring and derailing over here in the DK discussion thread. Take the meteor reflect grievances to the meteor reflect thread please.

Khivas_Carrick

Hey, I'm not the one derailing anything, I'm just stating the obvious fact that DKs were op and now you're not, and that seems to be bothering people.

The issues cited by a few of you said they're mad that they can throw down an ultimate which costs 250 only to have if nullified in some way, unaware that everyone else has it just as bad if not worse in some cases thanks to Nova still somehow costing 300 despite not being worth the amount.

And it still can be nullified just as easily as standard.

Hate to break it to those people complaining about ultimate build up and use, but this is the way of things now and frankly if it removes block casting, I'm ok with it.

Armitas

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

unaware that everyone else has it just as bad if not worse in some cases thanks to Nova still somehow costing 300 despite not being worth the amount.

Good, you admit that it's bad and even worse for some. That is exactly what we are saying, and why it makes no sense to nerf it when it's already, in your own words circumstantially bad.

It's not a "fact" that DK's are OP that is your opinion. Moving on with the thread.

Khivas_Carrick

Oh no, in 1.5 and before Pyromages and DK Reavers were freaking OP, right along with batswarm spamming ***. That much is a fact and you saying it isn't, now that's an opinion of the guy not being wrecked by it constantly.

Shadesofkin

I will always stand by the case that DK's weren't over powered, the other classes were under powered. Bring everyone up to the standard of Dragon Knights rather than knocking Dragon Knights down.

But, enough about that.

Ash Cloud and it's morphs need some sort of debuff to be useful. The damage is ok and I'm sure that some bow builds can get some benefit out of the snare, but otherwise it takes the place of original Inferno, no one is going to want it on their bar in the long run. A damage debuff or a healing debuff would do wonders to make the skill enticing. Especially to casters and tanks.

Khivas_Carrick

I actually wanted something similar to that goal, everybody being bought up to a DKs level, but then every bit of content would then be made to be far too easy, so instead they indirectly nerfed and buffed everybody by changing game mechanics and the meta.

I will say I'm happy with the results as a PvE Templar, but I do believe DKs are fine as they are and if anybody needs help, it's Sorcs.

Shadesofkin

I'd like to see Molten and its morphs get a light attack buff as well, I have zero issues with the change to being on my weapons alone but I relied on that buff to my attacks as a tank and as a melee dps and I use far more light attacks. The change has made the skill undesirable now.

I will beat the dead horse that is Ash/Cinder til I get an answer or I get deleted. It needs changed to some sort of debuff to be a useful skill, especially at range like they've done now. Healing/Attack Power/Armor, I'm not picky.

Standards Chain radius needs extended, even just slightly.

I love Inferno, good job.

I love Ferocious Leap, good job.

I find Fiery Grip to be hilarious and have gotten some use out of it. So far, I have to say I like it.

I really feel that Lava Whip needs a stamina skill.

Unstable...I like it so far. I'm not entirely sure.

Fiery Breath's morph for stamina seems to work pretty well, so I think I like it. I'm not sure yet.